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Japan blasts Chinese bid for U.N. recognition of Nanjing massacre

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The Nanjing Massacre, there are many unclear points. And, China have been eliminated image and video of evidence of Japan every day. If China was correct, why do they do such things? May be compared to evidence of China and Japan, Many Japanese would want it.

Every photo of NANKING MASSACRE seems to be fake.(1/2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aefFXZhOWBQ Every photo of NANKING MASSACRE seems to be fake.(2/2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vQ9W9Mg0as

The Fake of Nanking Massacre-1(English and Japanese) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvFk2fPHHnk The Fake of Nanking Massacre-2(English and Japanese) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM3xKhbg2Mg The Fake of Nanking Massacre-3 Population (English) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZMvI0BCrmw The Fake of Nanking Massacre-4(English and Japanese) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-yWdgSpfKw The Fake of Nanking Massacre-5(English and Japanese) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4RixnVpKI8 The Fake of Nanking Massacre-6 Chinese Testimonies of the eleven cases(English & Japanese)

Expose the fake of Nanking Massacre Made in China and USA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP4kChB5Ngg

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but can you name me one country that buries the truth about WWII like Japan does? Nah, didn't think so.

Easy. China. Not necessarily about that war but about anything in current events that doesn't suit their narrative.

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Genbaku Dōmu (原爆ドーム?, A-Bomb Dome), in Hiroshima, Japan, is part of the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park and was designated a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1996.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima_Peace_Memorial

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tokyodoumoJun. 17, 2014 - 02:40AM JST BIGOTRY AT IT'S BEST... So its OK for Japanase Govt to commemorate and seek World recognition of their people >suffering of Hiroshima and NagasakI bombing but Chinese can't do the same with the Nanking Massacre???

Ignorance at it's best. The suffering caused by the A-bombs are not just a Japanese issue, they are a global issue. Ever see how many foreign government representatives attend the annual memorials? The use and aftermath of the A-bombs is well documented by both sides of the conflict, with he US extending medical help afterwards. There are no doubts on the facts and figures in any country. And Japan does not use the A-bombings as a political and diplomatic weapon against he United States. In contrast, China does use Nanking as a political and diplomatic tool, the facts and figures are very much debatable, 300,000 bodies have never been found or presented by China, and the world does not consider it a event on the same significance level for the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE as the A-bombings. Otherwise every massacre in every war throughout history would be on the same level, it is not. The A-Bombings opened our eyes to the very real potential of the complete destruction of all mankind, something that people who grew up through the cold war know very well.

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BIGOTRY AT IT'S BEST... So its OK for Japanase Govt to commemorate and seek World recognition of their people suffering of Hiroshima and NagasakI bombing but Chinese can't do the same with the Nanking Massacre??? The World realize the tremendous pain and sacrifice of the A-Bomb victims... I think it's about time for the World including Japanese Govt and people to acknowledge the pain and suffering of the Massacre in Nanking. If Japan continues to deny and refuse their responsibility it will only lead to others being indifferent to Japanese suffering in the future.

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China consistently reminds its people of the 1937 Nanjing Massacre

Understatement of the decade. China's cynical incessant whinging is a real loss. For one, Imperial Japan really did suck, and Japan's Right white-wash and denial is terrible.

And that makes China's cynical whining all the more worse.

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Yabits: "And there are Japanese veterans recorded on film admitting to their role in the atrocities. "

Yeah, but Abe and the rest of the deniers who were never there just say the people who WERE there have 'foggy memories', so they must be right, right?

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I think that since it happened within Japanese Impire then it's internal problem of Japan just like Tibet is internal case of China. Check-mate!

Wow. How clever. But knocking the pieces over and declaring "checkmate" is not how this game is won. The game has judges. The world never accepted that Nanjing was a recognized part of the Japanese empire. It was technically under siege when the massacre happened, and a part of China that was under invasion.

UNESCO must stay away from dispute between two countries.

No. Not quite. Nanjing is not a dispute between Japan and China. The dispute about the atrocities at Nanjng is between Japan and rest of the civilized world. There were many Western witnesses to what took place. And there are Japanese veterans recorded on film admitting to their role in the atrocities. Remember: Admission will always trump denial in a dispute.

It is clear we are dealing with animals and not humans.

Amazingly, this is what the Japanese veterans spoke of in their admissions as to why they could kill so many Chinese people. We witness that this same feeling is still being held by some Japanese people today. Let the world know.

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Nanjing massacre is a strange incident where "300,000 people" disappeared in 9 days and left no physical evidence. Testimony must be supported with proof otherwise false charges will prevail readily. You can't achieve an impossible proof. CPC is responsible for this proof.

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"Both China and South Korea have long sought compensation for women victimised in the wartime brothels."

See these countries are just seeking financial aid and of course there is the ego satisfaction of being correct after complaining for such a long time. Imagine if every human on the earth had to reconcile with all their past actions like being a bully in school, stealing, domestic violence, rape maybe for some, killing for mafia types and so on. It would be a huge list and then where would we be? Well we would all be angry, sad and depressed. These countries are all depressed and sick and thus they require more grotesqueness to feel better about themselves. China should first stop eating every living thing that walks or flies and maybe they will get some more respect from me and also stop spitting on the floor at restaurants and talking like animals in the subway. It is clear we are dealing with animals and not humans.

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UNESCO must stay away from dispute between two countries.

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I support China's actions. Our SEAsian governments should similarly submit our documents to UNESCO for safekeeping if they have enough courage.

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while some may think that China should also recognize and perhaps apply for Tiannamen Square or Tibet, etc., I think those are only within China's own domestic affairs,,although its affect millions of people in China, it doesn't affect other countries on the contrary

I think that since it happened within Japanese Impire then it's internal problem of Japan just like Tibet is internal case of China.

Check-mate!

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Teaching right from wrong is different from forcing your rival country's descendants to accept guilt. In fact doing so will only be counterproductive as they will never feel compassion because of the animousity.

Many witnesses from various nations -- including Japanese military veterans -- have gone on record saying horrible atrocities were committed by the Japanese military in Nanjing. And yet this very thread also proves there is a significant percentage of Japanese who believe no atrocities occurred there. This indicates two things: 1) Japan has not taken clear responsibility and 2) it has been unable to properly teach its young people the truth about the matter.

The generation that should have taken on the guilt did not and therefore a portion of it falls on the descendants. That nation's neighbors are entirely reasonable to be concerned that the country will repeat the mistakes of its past. The evil that continues are the lies, denials, and distortions -- and the younger generation bears great responsibility to consider all of the evidence so that the cycle of evil can be broken. That is why the efforts of historians like Tamaki Matsuoka are so important.

Many in Japan would prefer to forget all about Nanjing, but China should not and the world can not. If Japanese feel animosity towards those who call up its past wrongs, it is the clearest sign that Japan has not dealt with them properly. (Make no mistake, China will have to reckon for any wrongs it has not properly dealt with, as will every other nation.)

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A country that always describes itself as peaceful seems only to do so because of its own suffering, not that of others. That's pathetic.

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Should Americans born today feel guilty toward african and native americans for the slavery and near extermination they caused when pillaging their lands?

Guilty? No. But they should educate the population on what happened and how it was a mistake so it doesn't happen again... Cough,cough.

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Teaching right from wrong is different from forcing your rival country's descendants to accept guilt. In fact doing so will only be counterproductive as they will never feel compassion because of the animousity.

That is why Japan is honorable to Taiwan. Taiwan could argue many claims with Japan if it were so compelled to, but it doesn't in a way that opens old wounds. China has a scab, a rash, that it is addicted to peeling and scratching, in a sick obsessive way.

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How about including Chinese Tibet massacre and on its own people in 1989 ? I think China atrocities weighs high priority considering prolonged suffering of Tibetans spread all across the world and living as refugees and imposing ban on its own people belong to families of 1989 victims against their activities irony is China received lot of relief from Japan as compensation all those years silently and now raising voices just because thinking it can bully others with its enhanced economic and military power. Its mind set and attitude now is reflection of Japan's Pre-world war 2.

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So we've got Japanese saying it never happened and German, Chinese... that say it did... Gee, I wonder who to believe...

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How about Japan bid to the U.N. for recognition of the Tiananmen Square Massacre in Beijing

Let's see -- Tienanmen is in China. Nanjing is in China. Why would Japan think it can bid to recognize a Chinese event? Do some people have the impression that Japan still controls China?

Perhaps the historian, Tamaki Matsuoka's film on the Nanjing Massacre can be added. In her documentary, she has a number of Japanese military veterans who admit on camera to taking part in atrocities. I am seeking out more information about a former Japanese military man who became a doctor -- the best I have for his name is "Hokuto Nakatome." He was a witness to the atrocities in Nanjing and displayed photos in his clinic so that he could help educate people on what really happened.

Admission always carries more weight than denial. If you get confused repeat it again: Admission always carries more weight than denial. Once you have recorded military veterans who admit to taking part in mass killings - as these veterans admit -- the game is pretty much over.

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The acts at Tienanmen square, and the current occupation of Tibet are horrendous actions by the Chinese. But I'm not seeing the logic on how exactly these issues negate Japan's responsibility for the massacre at Nanjing, or the rape of thousands of sex slaves. Can someone please explain this logic to me?

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How about Japan bid to the U.N. for recognition of the Tiananmen Square Massacre in Beijing

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TahoochiJun. 13, 2014 - 08:13AM JST 2) Why is China submitting this now? I think the answer is obvious; to fan the flames.

Fan the flames? China has every right to submit anytime. It's a internal matter. Why do Japan put their nose in of this atrocities?

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zichiJun. 13, 2014 - 07:54AM JST

globalwatcher

I actually spoke with them in person while I visited Japan.

Then your comment is worthless and just hearsay and serves no purpose in the discussion except in your attempt to try and divert it away from the truth.

Zichi, you call me anything you want. .You are right and I will bite it. I just want to leave them alone. Mr. Shintaro Ishihara and other J. politicians are sharing the same view as you know. .FYI

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Japan's downplaying of these incidents, although embarrassing, is a completely different subject IMHO.

I think the relevant questions are:

1) Are the events of the Nanjing massacre and the comfort women alone, appropriate for the program? This is questionable since "The Holocaust" as an event itself is not included in the program, whereas, things like Anne Franks diaries, and other testimonies and archives from the Holocaust are.

2) Why is China submitting this now? I think the answer is obvious; to fan the flames.

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globalwatcher

I actually spoke with them in person while I visited Japan.

Then your comment is worthless and just hearsay and serves no purpose in the discussion except in your attempt to try and divert it away from the truth.

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zichiJun. 13, 2014 - 02:02AM JST

globalwatcher

I have another Japanese veterans testified that a massacre never took place. Then who are telling the truth?

What are the names of these vets and were are the links to them?

I actually spoke with them in person while I visited Japan. These people are still alive and are keeping their mouths shut to the public. They want to be left alone. However, if you still insist and want to satisfy your curious mind, you can watch some on youtube. I have been convinced the history has been distorted as China not doing a full research.

Thanks for letting me know. This is a great opportunity for everyone to know the real truth. And we need to learn a lesson from the past mistakes in humanity. I hope you and I are in agreement on this.

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Chief Cabinet Secretary Suga is the same frontman who recently said there is no way to confirm the statements of the comfort women whose testimony promoted the kono statement. Japan's behavior is motivated by the expectation that survivors will die off completely at which time, japan can pull an about face. Until such time, japan will play the weeping victim. Is this because the allied force headed by U.S. dragged all those responsible, executed and removed from government every Nazi in Germany while in Japan, they hangs a few top guys and left all those responsible in the government and industry in place? The West seems to be happy to let history forget the Nanjing massacre as they are behind the fact those responsible we're never punished but became their important partners in power and profit?

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The issues have to do with a history that Japanese were never forced to fully face and a government that fostered ignorance by censoring school textbooks. As the years passed and successive generations learned the sanitized history, it was easier to call pretense fact and move on.

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Of course, everyone knows that doing this will get Japan to apologise for this....... NOT. How can you apologise for something that did not happen?

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Andrew Dany; Nanjing massacre is a historical fact - closing Japanese eyes (some) will only result in blindness...

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Beijing said the submissions were part of a need to “remember history, cherish peace and avert similar atrocities from happening again”.

I wonder how China feels about including the Tiananmen Square Massacre in the UNESCO program in order to “remember history, cherish peace and avert similar atrocities from happening again”. Yeah. I didn't think so.

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What are the names of these vets and were are the links to them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ-ekDm2FyI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tJxDRV2s34

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China should have submitted such Nanjing massacre and Comfort Women in the 90's when UNESCO set up such agency, for some reasons, China had been giving face to Japan about these negative issues, but not nowadays with Some right wing politicians keep on denying such being happened, if Japan deny and keep playing its victim role in Hiroshima, it's better for Korean & Chinese to remind the world such atrocities existed. Japan's Abe asked for all these!!

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I have another Japanese veterans testified that a massacre never took place. Then who are telling the truth?

It might be possible that the veterans who witnessed no massacre were in a different location from where the killings occurred. It' was the capital at the time and surely covered a large area. But I don't see what motivation a Japanese veteran would have to claim that they witnessed a massacre taking place. Before MyLai, I would not have believed that US troops in the 1960s were capable of such a thing.

War is hell, and it is said that the first casualty of war is the truth.

And why? they want to create more excuse to revise article 9 that most Japanese citizens are against.

Yes, I think you are right. Very good insight.

By the way, one of the documents accepted into the project came from Republic of Korea: archives and witness accounts of the 1980 Kwangju massacre. I thought readers might find that interesting.

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globalwatcher

I have another Japanese veterans testified that a massacre never took place. Then who are telling the truth?

What are the names of these vets and were are the links to them?

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globalwatcher JUN. 13, 2014 - 01:13AM JST I am not even close to so called "conservative" in political point of view. The truth in history is a massacre never took place. I am old enough to know it.

Even if it is well-documented by the neutral source not written to sympathise with the Chinese government and real photos to prove? I wonder what you going to say next? There never was Comfort women.

And I'm tend to be more conservative even I know who is the batshit insane one from the normal ones with good and honest intentions. Does sane people see that LDP has honest intentions when they keep taking the same bait that China throws and they do the same thing over and over? And why? they want to create more excuse to revise article 9 that most Japanese citizens are against. They could've ignored and represented Japan with maturity but so far they are managing it very poorly just about anyone could've filled their positions and perform better.

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@yabits... you are right, things are quite contradictory at some levels since china has its own behaviors and misconducts as well that may not directly affect but create anxieties among neighboring countries and also the world..japan on its part also has its own (sensitive) issues and weaknesses to deal with...now each country are running here and there to seek each others' weaknesses,,just hope that japan can change things as i think it is still quite slag behind with issues that are almost forgotten (meaning wwii issues)..

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Japanese military veterans who were there have testified that a massacre occurred.

I have another Japanese veterans testified that a massacre never took place. Then who are telling the truth?

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The truth in history is a massacre never took place. I am old enough to know it.

I don't see how age gives you any edge on knowing. Japanese military veterans who were there have testified that a massacre occurred. First-hand witnesses to it. The main argument now is about the numbers.

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A postwar Allied tribunal put the death toll at 142,000, but some conservative Japanese politicians and scholars deny a massacre took place.

I am not even close to so called "conservative" in political point of view. The truth in history is a massacre never took place. I am old enough to know it.

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Japanese whiners always try to point out "another bad" to diminish the significance of their bad. Example: "China had Tiananmen Square so they should just shut up about the Nanjing Massacre!" Typical childish behavior by these Japanese.

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yep, but, that is mostly concerns the Chinese only, not Japanese, or other nationalities

I believe how the government of China treats its own people, as well as how it treats groups of non-Chinese seeking greater autonomy from Beijing, are of great interest and concern to everyone. As China continues to grow and takes on a greater leadership role among nations, responsibilities will also increase.

I don't like the idea of telling other countries what to do, but I do believe it is important to let them know if what they are doing is helpful or not, from our perspective. China seems to understand this too, as demonstrated by their recent praise for Germany.

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Tiananmen square would also be a good world heritage event to acknowledge.

yep, but, that is mostly concerns the Chinese only, not Japanese, or other nationalities..it is a domestic issue for china to think about, not a regional concern affecting neighboring countries,,chinese know their own situation and how to improve it,,it is quite not sensible as well to tell china from outside what it should do on any situation that have no effect at all to your own country or your people...the issue that china is trying to voice out is region-wide, concerns other neighboring countries although they may not have the kind of capacity that china currently have to voice out such issues...

the fact that is quite undeniable as well is that china is growing, it is not declining...so maybe the world should also take lessons from that internal growth rather than seeing the negativities of the past that may not seems true in today's real world...

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If these documents contain letters of these victims then there is no reason to exclude them. They'd then be similar to the letters and wills from Kamikaze pilots that should also be included in UNESCO's world heritage program. However, I think the massacre and "comfort women," as events, don't really mesh with the spirit of the program. Looking through the register (which is available online) there is no mention of the holocaust, for example, outside of a few personal documents written during that time (like Anne Frank's Diaries, for example). Far from recognizing specific events, the Memory of the World program instead seeks to show human achievement and suffering through written works (not government papers, but more personal documents). Again, if there are letters and journals of victims, then they should be included. But this doesn't seem to be what the PRC has on offer. Instead, they want the events themselves listed, and thats not really what the register is about. We all feel for these victims, Japan included, but this is just another politically motivated move by the PRC to make Japan (and the world, once this bid is rejected by UNESCO) look bad internationally and domestically

I agree with this and provided that this was free from CCP political meddling (highly unlikely) then it should be included. Diaries and journals from victims and survivors are a story that should be told.

However, I'm afraid that the CCP is just defiling their suffering in order to use this as a political stunt. In saying that, I don't believe Japan really has that much room to object on this request, except on the possible grounds of CCP political manipulation rather than being a factual presentation.

conservative Japanese politicians

There's Japan's problem, in the shortest form possible.

That would be a nice gesture, but why is it your argument against Japan admitting to atrocities it committed (in other nations, for that matter)? It's amusing to watch the knee-jerk response to people who know what is right trying to deny it by using examples of the wrong-doings of others. Do any of you nay-sayers honestly, in your hearts, believe Japan is right in denying this because China visited atrocities on its own people? I won't hold my breath for an honest answer, nor will I be surprised when the denial continues

I keep telling Chinese the same thing, but what you say also applies to the Japanese. There's too much copping out and passing the buck. Just because someone committed a crime doesn't automatically exclude and vindicate you from the crimes you commit yourself. I'm not sure why so many people don't understand this.

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Jay Que: "How about a monument to the victims of communism permanently installed at the entrance to Mao's mausoleum..."

That would be a nice gesture, but why is it your argument against Japan admitting to atrocities it committed (in other nations, for that matter)? It's amusing to watch the knee-jerk response to people who know what is right trying to deny it by using examples of the wrong-doings of others.

Do any of you nay-sayers honestly, in your hearts, believe Japan is right in denying this because China visited atrocities on its own people? I won't hold my breath for an honest answer, nor will I be surprised when the denial continues.

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How is it possible to register an event. A thing, such as a book or documents that are of the time are one thing, but documents after the fact are subject to bias and therefore not registerable. Of course, registering Tiananmen square would also be a good world heritage event to acknowledge. .

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Japan blasts Chinese bid for U.N. recognition of Nanjing massacre

The world audience has not been fooled. There is NO evidence that Japanese is responsible for all what had happened in Nanjing. As long as China is playing this dirty diplomacy, she is not entitled to play a role of UN Security Council member. She needs to be removed. CHINA OUT!!

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How about a monument to the victims of communism permanently installed at the entrance to Mao's mausoleum...

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Here's video of the former comfort woman Bae Chun Hee who died last week. In talk between her and Sejong Univesrity professor Park Yuha she revealed how it works: if youd don't want to condemn Japan for all the evil of this world then you must be pro-Japanese and you'll be given a cold shoulder by the society and finally put into silence. This what she said - that's how comfort women business goes!

So let's get this straight: A Korean (former) comfort woman spoke to a Korean professor at a Korean university and made a video for the world to see, which appears to criticize an aspect of life in Korea. Wow, I would say that speaks very highly of Korean forthrightness in this case.

People must be allowed to tell their stories, and we must not take each story as the whole picture. I see that as an important theme of this memory project. Bae Chun Hee's story might be added to the archive. She sounds like a very wise woman of character.

The comment voting here proves a strong accumulation of Chinese China supporters here!

No. Speaking for myself, I am a supporter of allowing people to tell their stories in their own way. The first one who tries to prevent someone from doing that, as Japan is trying to do in this case, is the loser.

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I didn't see anything there that seemed intended to suggest that Japan's actions were justified, but it is evidence that national governments are more than capable of brainwashing their populace, with devastating consequences. There might indeed be some valuable lessons in there for people the world over, especially people of you-know-where, but I doubt their government would have a bar of it

fxgai -- so now you admit that the letters the Japanese want included did glorify the Emperor, which is what I stated, which forces you to make this lame case that Japan wants them recognized because they show how "capable of brainwashing the populace" the government was. LOL. We both know why Japan made their submission, so please stop trying to rationalize it on such utterly ridiculous grounds. You appear to be an intelligent person. But you lose credibility when you try to defend such childish actions by the Abe-led, nationalistic J-government.

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The comment voting here proves a strong accumulation of Chinese China supporters here! If the word Nanjing Massacre is uttered, the Chinese brain executes a hard reset preprogrammed by years of CCP brainwashing, then erases all common sense, and switched to into a passionate defensive mode of their fatherland. Any approach to try to deblock this reset fails critically.

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So even if government representatives say what ever they say... that does not mean the apologies are withdrawn.

(rubbing eyes in disbelief) -- No. What it means is that the apologies have become tainted and insincere. And that can be worse than no apology at all.

For your information there are various diaries written by comfort girls that shows a very different light of what the Koreans are saying. Naturally they will never obtain major publishing since it goes against Nationalist's propaganda agenda.

First, why doesn't Japan publish them? They could very easily do a "major publishing" on them. And I am not one to claim that life for every one of the many thousands of comfort women was terrible, only that life for some was horribly bad. But a word of caution is in order: The writings might appear very much like the revisionists in my country, where slavery was once prevalent. Every so often we'll see people stepping up and claiming that slavery was not so bad, and that many slaves wanted to stay with their masters. How blacks should be thankful they were taken out of Africa. Those kinds of things. So the diaries of sexual slaves who paint a rosy picture could backfire, and ruin the Japanese revisionist propaganda agenda.

It just brings out the worst jingoism in people.

Well, Nanjing is in China. China has every right to submit historical documents, diaries, etc. that describe what happened from its perspective in its own country. What brings out the jingoism in people in this instance is Japan and its objections. Let China submit the documents for consideration and let Japan just keep quiet about it. Let Japan submit what it feels is important. Someone has already suggested a theme on "the rosy life of a military sex slave." Yes, let Japan counter with that, along with the kamikaze letters -- and let China shut up about it. Both are acting like children.

False equivalence. The Diary of Anne Frank did not include sweeping historical claims.

Few diaries can do that, and diaries are among the documents that China has submitted regarding Nanjing. I seriously doubt that every record from individual people living in Nanjing at the time contain "sweeping historical claims." Nevertheless, Anne's diary is considered one of the foundational documents of the Holocaust, and rightfully so.

Some of the documents in the project have to do with the slave trade in the Americas, and we don't see the United States objecting over anything some might consider inaccuracies. Yes, we have our revisionists, but they're over on the loony fringe and don't carry a lot of influence. By comparison, Japan's loonies are much less of a "fringe."

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while some may think that China should also recognize and perhaps apply for Tiannamen Square or Tibet, etc., I think those are only within China's own domestic affairs,,although its affect millions of people in China, it doesn't affect other countries on the contrary..i think all countries or governments of the past have their own form of mass killings, one way or another within their own borders,,as i think this has been also part of the fight for freedom or democracy..freedom by the way does not come with no cost,,the US itself, the world so leading democracy has its own dark history as well within its own domestic borders! with legal discriminations and others that also cost alot of lives...while the US choses to educate its own citizens and the world about such happenings,,that is up for US citizens and government only...in this case, that is also up for China and the Chinese people (alone) as well to open up themselves and change things themselves..

however, Japan did attack China and many other countries in asia and the pacific..so this issue is not only for japan to consider,,, i tend to think that it is not only Japan's own domestic issue as other peoples are affected...so if Japan choses not to be very open on this issue, then i think it is quite natural or sensible that the affected countries will be talking about it...and i think that why china is having a good stance here to bring this issue to the UN as Japan tend to walk a path of revising such historical facts over and over again..

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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=896068367086745

A video evidence.

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To all those fine Internet warriors for the Chinese case forgetting Tibet and the fact that the most Chinese killed in history was Chinese themsleves. Here's video of the former comfort woman Bae Chun Hee who died last week. In talk between her and Sejong Univesrity professor Park Yuha she revealed how it works: if youd don't want to condemn Japan for all the evil of this world then you must be pro-Japanese and you'll be given a cold shoulder by the society and finally put into silence. This what she said - that's how comfort women business goes!

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No matter how I look at the way the greatest effort has been made by any past Japanese administration to mend its ties with the Asian neighbours, What greatest effort?

Rerformed, I gave you links. Zichi has given links. Your turn.

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China is funny.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Shintaro Abe is Andrew Carnegie in reverse. Carnegie wrote "How to Win Friends and Influence People." Abe could write a book about his career as PM called "How Make Enemies and Alienate People." In this chapter we have an object lesson in how not only to tick off the victims of Japan's vile war crimes but also to completely alienate any decent friends who happen to have admired Japan as the most stable democracy in Asia.

This gob of slime will not win Japan any friends: " 'It is extremely regrettable that China is trying to play up a negative legacy from a certain period in Sino-Japanese history by using UNESCO for a political purpose, when effort needs to be made to improve ties between Japan and China' " (Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga). The weasel-working is enough to alienate people. This roundabout denial. Suppose Germany said something like that to the Jews? This is the same thing.

And why the denial? Japan has been clean for nearly 70 years. Today it is the US that is committing atrocities everywhere. Why not accept the truth and say sorry and we won't do it again. The problem is that Abe and the LDP have to many familial and institutional ties to the rotten old days--that Abe seems to want to bring back.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I certainly don't have enough time in the day to read all of your comments, such as the one above, and respond to them. But it seems you are becoming increasingly hysterical, judging by the fact you confuse your fantasies with fact. Making stuff up does not make your comments valid.

Classic. I'm "hysterical" because I know what I'm talking about.

I rest my case.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

For your information there are various diaries written by comfort girls that shows a very different light of what the Koreans are saying. Naturally they will never obtain major publishing since it goes against Nationalist's propaganda agenda.

I saw the vlip of the ex-comfort girl granny who died just few days ago and that was pretty shocking. She spoke there (in Japanese!) how they forbid them from saying anything good about Japan in the public etc. Way to go money wankers from Korea!

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

bowweevil=Japan's wish to have the letters of theb kamikaze pilots submitted as an incentive for peace is also equally twisted.

I think I am more or less on the same page as you, The logic behind the notion of giving UNESCO Heritage recognition to the letters and wills would strike me as twisted as the idea of Japan being allowed to "go to war" to promote peace. , which I would take as indicating a mindset at work in some Japanese who are not aware of this fact that there are two aspects to Japn's wartime experiences as the victimizer and the vicmized. or who selectively give a blind eye to the victimizer aspet to the equation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It is only fitting and proper to recognize these war atrocities committed by the then Imperial Japan.

China is right here. When you got the tiger by the tail you don't let go. Unfortunately for Japan their on the hook for this. Japan could take all the wind out of this by admitting these things happened. The denial makes it worst.

There are millions of Japanese who don't even know the world revisited D-Day only a week ago. Japan was slammed for not taking the high road that Germany did when they took responsibility for their past. Class act!!

So just say YES, that happened and move on. That's how Japanese police do it. Try it on yourselves.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Mr. Prfect "Wih the greatest effort of any Japanese administration to mend its ties with its Asian neighbours, I just for the life of me can't imagine why China would do such a thing.

No matter how I look at the way the greatest effort has been made by any past Japanese administration to mend its ties with the Asian neighbours, I can't give credence to what you say, particularly when I put into perspective the latest political developments related to the effort put into trying to virtually get rid of the no-war clause of the constitution to exercise the right to collective self-defense .with the diplomatic effort to mend its relations with China and Korea put on the back burner. Speaking for myself, I would not be surprised if China worked hard to have the Nanjin Massacre on the NESCO Hertiage list of memories. Japan under the Abe administration does not have what it takes to respond proactivedly on its own to set the past records straight unless they are forced to react to a reaction from outside.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Daniel Neagari: "Sorry.. i am allergic to so much bs...."

Then you most certainly cannot defend the Japanese government without breaking into a fatal rash. You probably shouldn't look in the mirror, either.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

True, but its clear by the timing and their other actions that they only care about giving Japan a bad image with any chance they get.

Japan has been giving itself a bad imagine because it continues to deny and cries when any other nation even tries to bring up WWII and what the Japanese military did.

No, that would not be honest nor accurate tmarie. It's a little bit off topic to go into the details of the comparison between Germany's and Japan's response but when you examine the facts, you'll find Japan has actually gone much further. 100% disagree and stopped reading after the last sentence on here. No point is discussing anything with anyone who suggests Japan has done more than Germany with regards to making up for what they did during WWII.

I just "love" it when folks post links to prove others wrong and then people refuse to admit it that they are indeed wrong. Zichi, a few more links in one of my posts about the same thing. Some people will just deny.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Daniel Neagari

I understand. I see your position cemented. And your "vast knowledge" in the matter and international and national law and commitment are "superior" Thus, I see I have no more reason to further point a comment to you.

I provided you with links, events and statements but you decided to avoid making any comments or reference to those?

Two last thing... you may need to revise, Japan has not never (at least until this moment) taken back the consecutive apologies that have presented. So even if government representatives say what ever they say... that does not mean the apologies are withdrawn.

Yes I agree, Japan has issued apologies but not always to the satisfaction of the victims. I also believe those issued apologies are considerably weakened and the "spirit of their intend weakened" when senior leaders, politicians, historians, professors later question or deny the events of the war and currently even the PM Abe gov't is reviewing what led up to the Kono Statement?

For the moment, those aoplogies are unlikely to be withdrawn but are under constant threat from the deniers of history.

Japanese people know very well what has occurred... because there is a good amount of information about that nationally and internationally. And even if Japanese people wanted to not-know... there are countries and people like yourself that won't let that happen.

Maybe you could provide a few good links on that point?

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Reading this article I was initially inclined to think that Japan might have a point and that this was a purely political anti-Japan move by China which may have been inappropriate in the UNESCO context.

Then I read the last line about Japan trying to enshrine kamikaze pilot mementos using the same UNESCO mechanism and I pretty much instantly lost sympathy for the Japanese argument in this case.

If Japan, the aggressor in the war, can seek to commemorate its military dead from a war that it started itself, then it really has no business whatsoever criticizing China for seeking to commemorate its civilian victims in a war that China did nothing to start.

I suspect the rest of the world would at any rate appreciate both of them refraining from turning UNESCO into a forum for them to engage in tit for tat squabbling of this sort.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@zichi

I understand.

I see your position cemented. And your "vast knowledge" in the matter and international and national law and commitment are "superior"

Thus, I see I have no more reason to further point a comment to you.

Two last thing... you may need to revise, Japan has not never (at least until this moment) taken back the consecutive apologies that have presented. So even if government representatives say what ever they say... that does not mean the apologies are withdrawn. Japanese people know very well what has occurred... because there is a good amount of information about that nationally and internationally. And even if Japanese people wanted to not-know... there are countries and people like yourself that won't let that happen.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

China is overlooking its own complicity in the deaths of 70 million of its own people for sure. But UNESCO seems to be a platform where countries remember injustices perpetrated by 'others'. UNESCO would do the world a favor if it accepted more submissions from people who died at the hands of their own repressive regimes.

It is clear that China is manipulating this tragedy for its own political benefit. The fact that the Japanese Imperial Army did massacre 142,000 Chinese 70 years ago in no way validates its current claims and actions in the East and South China seas, nor does it vindicate the contnued supression of the Chinese people by a brutal dictatorship.

On the other hand Japan's wish to have the letters of Kamikaze pilots submitted as an incentive for peace is also equally twisted. Particularly when the present administration sees absolutely no culpability on the part of Japan in WWII. There is a complete disconnect in the nexus of causality in the mind of a government that says: Isn't it terrible how they died? We must submit their letters lest no one forget how important peace is, but we defend and support the policies that forced them to into that situation....

0 ( +3 / -3 )

When it was released, Germany did not spend time and effort attempting to debunk it.

False equivalence. The Diary of Anne Frank did not include sweeping historical claims.

Anyway, this is a no-win-situation for Japan. All Japan can do it point out its apologies and stick to the. Cleverly played, China.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Don't forget to apply the 'Tianmen square' massacre, too, China!

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

It's simple. Do you want to live in a country that owns up to its mistakes or don't you? A home analogy is applicable here. I'd prefer an open and honest family rather than one that sweeps secrets under the rug. True strength is accepting our faults and working to improve ourselves

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Daniel Neagari

Excuse me... who is denying? The government is not... the public is not. What is happening is that a small part of people say the contrary. That they got picked up by the media or that they make noise... yes OK give you that. But how do you even dare to say that is the common feeling of Japan and its people? That goes to every other soul around here too.

There have been numerous articles, some reproduced on JT, and there have been years of discussion too on the role of Japan during the Pacific War and the numerous atrocities committed by the Imperialist troops and government of the time.

There has been a long history since the end of the war involving governments, important leaders and politicians, historians, professors who have publicly denied all or parts of those atrocities. There have been too many attempts at revisionist history to try and white wash its past.

When it comes to the atrocities committed at Nanjing and Manila, there have been many deniers and while that might not been the majority deny since my more than two decades of living here in Japan I'm left with the impressions and conclusion that the majority would rather not believe that Nanjing happened and is nothing more than a Chinese conspiracy?

Back in Feb. this year, we had the very public event and numerous discussions when Naoki Hyakuta, Chairman of NHK denied the 1937 Nanjing massacre ever took place.

Back in 2012, Nagoya Mayor Takashi Kawamura told a delegation from Nanjing, China, there was no massacre. At the time, the Tokyo governor, Ishihara agreed with Nagoya mayor's Nanjing massacre denial which also prompted an article and discussion here on JT.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/ishihara-agrees-with-nagoya-mayors-nanjing-massacre-denial

In 2007, the year of the 70th anniversary of the atrocity, 100 elected Japanese politicians from the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) collectively denounced the "massacre" as a "fabrication" created by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

In Mar. this year, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga issued a statement to a New York Times article which stated that PM Abe denied the Nanking massacre.

“The basic position of the Japanese government is that it cannot be denied that there were killings of noncombatants and plundering (by Japanese troops) after the Japanese Army entered Nanjing in 1937,”

In December, last year, PM Abe jointly published a book with popular novelist Naoki Hyakuta in which Hyakuta claimed the U.S. “fabricated” the Nanjing Massacre during the postwar tribunal to distract international attention from its own “war crimes” such as the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and massive air raids on Tokyo.

Shimomura Hakubun, the then Education Minister, said in the interview on October 3, 2012:

The “departure from the postwar regime” slogan that the previous Abe administration put forward means revising all aspects of Japan’s modern history, including the Tokyo War Tribunal view of history, the Kono Statement, and the Murayama Statement.

Your comment indicates you deny there are deniers?

I want Japan and its people to accept its role in starting the Pacific War and for committing the many atrocities during its imperialist past so what we might all be able to do is move on without the constant need to return to that period of history, which also holds back Japan on the world stage.

Daniel Neagari if has you have commented that the government and the Japanese public don't deny the Nanjing massacre then why are people upset and opposed to China making this application to the UNESCO program?

Its important that the Nanjing Massacre, and the many others in the history of humanity, are never forgotten, and something of it is taught in schools, so at least we can try to never again repeat these very horrific events.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

However, that does not mean they do not have a "right" to look at their history and want to share what Japan did with the rest of the world.

True, but its clear by the timing and their other actions that they only care about giving Japan a bad image with any chance they get.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I'm sorry but this entire UNESCO project is absurd... particularly in light of the fact that national governments are asked to make submissions. It just brings out the worst jingoism in people.

I think future generations will prefer to get their account of world history from actual dispassionate historians... sorry UNESCO.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

True, no doubt there are deniers on the Japanese side that get in the way.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It's hard to engage with people though when you have deniers and a government that is clearly not interested in discussing openly and honestly what happened in the past. I 100% agree with you though but let's be honest, neither nation are mature enough to work it out like Germany has with many other nations.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

tmarie,

China has done some seriously disgusting things. However, that does not mean they do not have a "right" to look at their history and want to share what Japan did with the rest of the world.

I get what you are saying, but I would advise China engage with Japan on these controversial issues and bring them to a resolution with Japan first, before running off to UNESCO with whatever it's version of events and history is. Would that not be a more constructive and sensible approach? Beijing just comes across as a 3rd rate government to me.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

If any event deserves to be put on the World Heritage list for all of us to not forget it's the Tianenmen Square Massacre.

No one on this board is suggesting it be forgotten. And here is the issue. Some of us on here can see that yes, China has done some seriously disgusting things. However, that does not mean they do not have a "right" to look at their history and want to share what Japan did with the rest of the world.

Ossan, was that before or after the Yasukuni trip... You really do have a short memory.

Excuse me... who is denying? The government is not... the public is not. What is happening is that a small part of people say the contrary. That they got picked up by the media or that they make noise... yes OK give you that.

Oh really? The government is not? http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201202210046

Old but proves my point rather well. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/minister-denies-rape-of-nanking-1433756.html

http://www.tokyoweekender.com/2014/02/nhk-senior-manager-denies-likelihood-of-nanking-massacre/

I certainly don't have enough time in the day to read all of your comments, such as the one above, and respond to them. But it seems you are becoming increasingly hysterical, judging by the fact you confuse your fantasies with fact. Making stuff up does not make your comments valid. Classic. I'm "hysterical" because I know what I'm talking about. Here you go since you've seem to have forgotten the black eye Japan was given over the issue. They can take "note" but they can also tell Abe to grow up. That's how mature nations do it. Shame Japan hasn'T learned how to do such things yet. http://japan.usembassy.gov/e/p/tp-20131226-01.html

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

@zichi

but that's no excuse or reason for this country Japan to deny its past too.

The Japanese government is not denying the past. Hence the apologies and compensation.

@CrazyJoe

World War II was not a glorious moment in the history of the world. There were, certainly, instances of bravery, gallantry, heroism and of sacrifice, just as there were instances of brutality and cruelty.

True. Same for all wars. There are so many - let's pick another. Say WW1. That was a pretty horrendous war but nobody says boo about it.

The elephant in the room is that the CCP is doing this for political purposes. It does not care about the victims.

When the make movies these days about Chinese soldiers fighting the Imperial Japanese Army - are they shown wearing Nationalist uniforms?

3 ( +9 / -6 )

And by the way, for growing up in a country neighboring Germany, I could hardly miss the noise made by the German right-wingers.

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1860871_1860876_1861026,00.html

Every country has its own lot of those. It's just pathetic that the Communist Chinese would try to brainwash the rest of the world like they do their populace and put Japan in contrast with Germany.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

jerseyboy,

I did do a search after my comment and found a BBC article, "Remembering Japan's kamikaze pilots".

So yes, you're right apparently lots of letters do talk about how happy the young chaps were to go off and die in the name of the Emperor - others, not so much... Still, I don't personally find the content offensive. Those letters just reflected the thinking of people who went off to die.

I didn't see anything there that seemed intended to suggest that Japan's actions were justified, but it is evidence that national governments are more than capable of brainwashing their populace, with devastating consequences. There might indeed be some valuable lessons in there for people the world over, especially people of you-know-where, but I doubt their government would have a bar of it.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

UNESCO recognizes that teaching about the history of the Holocaust is fundamental to establishing respect for human rights, >basic freedoms and the values of tolerance and mutual respect.

http://www.unesco.org/new/holocaust-remembrance

Now if you tell me the CCP is trying to have the Nanking massacre recognized for the same reasons, I would indeed shout "Tiananmen", "Great Leap Forward" and "Tibet".

5 ( +5 / -0 )

You want to forget something, but others which got hurt from it will keep remidering you to remember it. This will never end.

Or in other way like German, it will be different. German set an example to applologize , the other nations in EURO also set examples for forgiving.

So, if you follow German, the others will have to follow EURO nations.

am I clear?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

While I do agree with the sentiments of China, I can't agree with their actions. This problem has been brought about because of the Japanese politicians that keep downplaying and re-construing the events. Some have even gone as far to say the events never happened. I can't blame China for being peeved, but their actions are inappropriate.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

China is shifting a blame to Japan on this issue.

The truth of matter is that Chairman Mao killed too many his own people in Nanjin. China is very good at this. If China wants to play this dirty laundry, let's start with Tibet. Let us hear. Let us hear!!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

This story is about Beijing trying to register specific activities / incidents involving the Japanese imperial army with UNESCO.

Irrespective of what one thinks about the controversy surrounding those activities, I would have thought it were obvious that Beijing trying to register them with UNESCO is completely out of line.

Surprised to see comments seemingly supporting Beijing on their action.

It's just a vengeful action, and UNESCO is never going to accept it, I have no doubt.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@gogogo

There are ignorant people... you cannot help it. There are young people in the US and in Europe that simply don't know what is a World War.

And, not trying to question your communication skills but maybe there is the possibility that you misunderstood what your "japanese friends" told you. The attack on Hawaii (Perl Harbor) was in order to cripple the offensive capacities of the US in the Pacific. This was in order to eliminate the threat of the US toward the Imperial expansion plans of Japan. Also at the time, the expansion plans were forced since the Allies cut the oil and supplies routes of Japan as sanctions of it actions. This cause stress on the japanese plans at the moment and under that light Japan was "forced" to attack, the US.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

The sooner Japan realizes that it was the aggressor and not the victim the sooner relationships with the rest of Asia can begin to harmonize. It's not just Chinese who dislike Japanese because of their colonial atrocities.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Japan is showing their true face, I've had this discussion with a few Japanese people who seem to think (incorrectly) that they are the victim of WW2 and they they were forced to attack America in invade other countries.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Ossan -- and it looks like you forgot the main point of the Embassy's statement:

The U.S. Embassy in Tokyo released a statement that said, "Japan is a valued ally and friend. Nevertheless, the United States is disappointed that Japan's leadership has taken an action that will exacerbate tensions with Japan's neighbors."

Please stop insulting our intelligence by posting bits and pieces of things that support your position when you know full well the overall direction is 100% opposite to yours.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

@Zichi...

Excuse me... who is denying? The government is not... the public is not. What is happening is that a small part of people say the contrary. That they got picked up by the media or that they make noise... yes OK give you that.

But how do you even dare to say that is the common feeling of Japan and its people?

That goes to every other soul around here too.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Unfortunately, Japan's attitude to its war past is like a merry-go-round with too many denying its role and claiming to be the victim. Difficult to see how we'll never get past this period.

The Chinese Mao probably killed more of his own people than Imperialist Japan, some say, at least 50 million but that's no excuse or reason for this country Japan to deny its past too.

11 ( +17 / -6 )

Well the US has rcently put Japan in it's place for their behaviour - though I am sure you would like to forget the comments about Yasukuni. Pretty sure Korea has rolled its eye more than a few times in the past month alone. No one sides with Japan on their issues with China and Korea setting up monuments and the like.

That's 3.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

As for Japan's application with letters written by "kamikaze" pilots, can anyone tell me what these letters actually said? It's pure speculation on my part, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they don't contain content glorifying war or the emperor (for if they did, surely Japan wouldn't have applied).

fxgai -- hogwash. And if you had taken two seconds to scan the Internet you would have found out the truth, as stated by an ex-kamikaze pilot:

"I know it's hard for people to believe but the pilots were happy to go for emperor and country. It's written in many letters I collected."

Your pure speculation and sneaking suspicion are as hallow as Japan's defense of is actions -- deny despite the evidence, and then say "so what" we are no worse than other folks.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

World War II was not a glorious moment in the history of the world. There were, certainly, instances of bravery, gallantry, heroism and of sacrifice, just as there were instances of brutality and cruelty.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@EthanWilber Modern Japan is defensive because unlike you, most people do not include "imperial" when referring to that time in Japanese history but everyone mentions the Nazis. Germans can pass blame to the Nazis; "it wasn't us it was the Nazis" so they do not feel like they are being held responsible. Even the article above does not differentiate between Japan and imperial Japan. I'm not sure if the article above correctly quotes the Chinese government but if China made an effort to blame Imperial Japan instead of Japan, modern Japan would be a lot less defensive. This week marks the anniversary of the Chinese army blowing up the Yellow River dikes that directly drowned 1 million Chinese people; that is something else to include in the history book.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

yabits

For your information there are various diaries written by comfort girls that shows a very different light of what the Koreans are saying. Naturally they will never obtain major publishing since it goes against Nationalist's propaganda agenda.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

With this kind of logic, why doesn't China ask for recognition of the Great Leap Forward?

Ugh because the Great Leap Forward was a program which was implemented poorly and thus caused the deaths of many Chinese people, but theres a difference between a failure of policy and actively trying to commit genocide

Great leap Forward was not purposely trying to massacre and torture people, where as Nanjing was pure aggression and murder for no good reason

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@Mr. Perfect

I rather don't share your point of view in almost everything....though

Using sarcasm in here is futile. I think most people in here tend to read it and take it literally... are not able to go deeper.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Beijing said the submissions were part of a need to “remember history, cherish peace and avert similar atrocities from happening again”*.

Mr. Perfect

With the greatest effort of a any Japanese administration to mend ties with it's Asian neighbors over it's colonial past I just for the life of me can't imagine why China would do such a thing! Go figure

I guess some people don't get the sarcasm in my comment as it's very evident that PM Abe has done more harm than any PM in living memory and Japan's relations with it's Asian neighbors must be at an all-time low since World War II. SARCASM people, look it up!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

then let the international experts thoroughly examine proof provided by China

Interesting thing about Anne Frank's diary, which is part of the project, and which raises interesting contrasts with these two Asian rivals. Anne's diary was never submitted by her family in the Netherlands as "proof." It simply and eloquently spoke for itself. When it was released, Germany did not spend time and effort attempting to debunk it. They didn't childishly go back through Dutch history and look for moral equivalence. Such attempts, in all honesty, would have revealed them lacking in decency.

Had Anne been a young Chinese girl (or Korean "comfort woman") describing life under Japanese occupation, anything she might have written and revealed later would attract a veritable army of Japanese distortion artists and prevaricators. Suddenly, the motivation and reasons for so many library copies of Anne's diary being stolen or defaced in Japan start to make sense.

Allow the Chinese to submit writings and documents -- especially diaries -- of its painful wartime memories.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

One thing I can say for sure... a lot of eunuchs and homunculus or golems around here.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

tmarieJun. 12, 2014 - 10:20AM JST Well the US has rcently put Japan in it's place for their behaviour - though I am sure you would like to forget the >comments about Yasukuni

Looks like you are the one who forgot:

"We take note of the Prime Minister’s expression of remorse for the past and his reaffirmation of Japan's commitment to peace."

http://japan.usembassy.gov/e/p/tp-20131226-01.html

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

While the Nanjing massacre is pretty much officially recognizing world wide, the CCP really thinks the rest of the world can be so easily swayed by their own perspective of history while completely ignoring the situations that were the direct actions of the CCP against others. When will the CCP finally do enough for the other nations to tell it to sit down and shut up for good?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

igloobuyerJun. 12, 2014 - 10:49AM JST Ossan "If any event deserves to be put on the World Heritage list for all of us to not forget it's the Tianenmen Square Massacre." When a country massacres it's own people it's their business,

That is the exact kind of thinking that has kept the CCP dictatorship in power subjugating the Chinese people since 1989. Hope you're proud.

when one nation massacres the people of another, >that's everybody's business. Nakking needs greater recognition >of man's capacity for inhumanity to man.

Except that there are far far too many examples in human history to raising any for special recognition.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

Shinjuku: sorry, bud, but Japan saying "effort must be made to improve relations" does indeed go two ways. A good start would be Japan not denying its past. You STILL have politicians outright denying women being coerced into rape, the nanjing massacre, and even forced suicides in Okinawa.

0 ( +10 / -10 )

Actually they should let China apply, and then let the international experts thoroughly examine proof provided by China. Does it hold any water? If not, it could be a black eye for China. So Japan had better work hard on this.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Ossan

If any event deserves to be put on the World Heritage list for all of us to not forget it's the Tianenmen Square Massacre.

When a country massacres it's own people it's their business, when one nation massacres the people of another, that's everybody's business. Nakking needs greater recognition of man's capacity for inhumanity to man.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Dear commentors, many of you are playing exactly the same blame game that Japan and China are.

Both Japan and China need to mend their wrong approach to diplomacy. Striking fear of military conflict while spewing excuses such as 'to cherish peace' will not do any good to the region, let alone bring stability to East Asia. They should focus more on trying to talk directly to each other. Neither side will yield, but why should that stop them from doing business with each other? "I hate your guts, but I love your money" seems like a reasonable basis for both countries to be at least cooperative in terms of trading import/exports. Plus, having a higher stake in each other's land would also discourage any military confrontation.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Japanese whining does them no good at all, yet they never learn. What they should do instead is to push for recognition of the tens of millions killed by mass murderer Mao and the hundreds slaughtered in Tiananmen Square. After all, these are historical facts which cannot be denied.

The Japanese could also state that they regret what happened at Nanjing and pledge it won't happen again, although Abe could hardly do that with a straight face. They could then point out that the unelected Chinese dictatorship offers no such pledge and will continue to murder Chinese people as and when it sees fit.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

UNESCO’s Memory of the World

Perhaps UNESCO can start an alternate project: World Memory Attack ("They made us do it.") -- and Japan can submit the various versions of its history textbooks since the war's end, as well as every "apology" along with every counter-statement undermining it.

China will be rich with material too.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

fxgaiJUN. 12, 2014 "The Chinese governments's attitude is always one of "blame, blame, blame". I don't see that from the Japanese government."

That's very true because the Japanese choose instead to ignore and deny. The human rights atrocities from the war don't fit the Japanese self perspective of being the victims so they conveniently forgotten by the mass of Japanese and vehemently denied by the right wing nationalists.

If the Hiroshima Peace Memorial is on the register, then why not a memorial to the Nanjing victims of Japanese aggression.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Could you please point out these nations that have "rolled their eyes". I would love to see some official link where an ambassador has stated anything that you have claimed.

Well the US has rcently put Japan in it's place for their behaviour - though I am sure you would like to forget the comments about Yasukuni. Pretty sure Korea has rolled its eye more than a few times in the past month alone. No one sides with Japan on their issues with China and Korea setting up monuments and the like. Japan has been blasted by many for their behaviour and comments. YOu guys do get that "rolling eyes" is an expression right? Defend Japan to the end boys. No one else is.

It does NOT mean we make light of, or deny these massacres occurred. However ii MEANS that if these atrocities are registered, in all fairness, being a UNITED NATIONS organization, ALL the other massacres which different countries committed ( and they DID commit them, my dear) be mentioned - Which is exactlt what Japan has done time and time again - denied, make light and ignore. I am all for countries sharing what happened to them by others. Get the truth out there. Can you name me any other nation right now that is deny what they have done to other countries during the second wolrd war? I can't think of any.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

PRC is welcome to apply in fact I dare them to apply in which case a lot of historians would scrutinize the event under a microscope and we can all place it to bed once and for all.

This thing really needs a thrid party that is inpartial and unbiased to actually do some actual detective work to uncover facts not propaganda that shrouds it.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Japan as usual digging its own grave!

To the people that don't get it, its simple, Japan for decades to this day DOESNT admit its WWII history, PERIOD! The locals aren't taught squat about what Japan did & here we are! Simple as that!!

China, yeah sure the CCP are a bunch ^$^$^%&^*(^!! BUT they control their citizens, media, Japan Doesn't!

So here we have BOTH failing to deal even remotely honestly with history, Japan has NO EXCUSE in a supposed democracy, Chinese cant challenge the govt line without getting into SERIOUS TROUBLE, ok some of you get this but there are the same few here that cant understand reality.

Bottom line is this:

Japan reaps what she sews & has the POWER to shut China etc up but chooses NOT TOO, Japans decision!

China is run by ruthless commies, they try to erase history, BUT at some point they WILL FALL & then you can bet a LOT of discussion will happen in China I predict, how it will turn out.......more difficult to predict.

So Japan like I have been saying for ages, you reap whattya sew! So stop complaining when someone points out YOUR HISTORY!!!

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

@tmarie

Oh Japan... you want everyone to remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Kamikazi, Okianwa

"Kamikaze"

This is why the rest of Asian, and many other coutnries, roll their eyes.

Please list them.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Beijing is welcome to apply. A sound rejection of the ridiculous application by UNESCO will send them a clear message. The world doesn't appreciate the Chinese government's behaviour.

As for Japan's application with letters written by "kamikaze" pilots, can anyone tell me what these letters actually said? It's pure speculation on my part, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they don't contain content glorifying war or the emperor (for if they did, surely Japan wouldn't have applied).

The Chinese governments's attitude is always one of "blame, blame, blame". I don't see that from the Japanese government.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

By Japan "blasting" China for doing this shows the rest of the world Japan is wants to change history and China's claims are 100% correct.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

This whole UNESCO World Heritage thing is becoming very stupid.

Also , the issues regarding what China did in its own country to it people are most likely irrelevant as they are domestic issues. The Nanking issue isnt because it was committed by another country and that`s probably why China is trying to push it through.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I agree that if the Japanese cannot or willingly won't remember the atrocities gleefully committed by the Imperial Japanese Army during the Pacific War, then others should do this amnesia-suffering country a favor and remember them for it. If Japan doesn't like it? Tough!

The Japanese people are misguided by their nationalist "leaders" if they think they can skip over all the awful things they are responsible for during the war and instead pretend like Hiroshima came out of nowhere on a completely innocent and purely peace-loving country; here they are sorely mistaken. Indeed, peace was brought to Japan not by its own politicians but by outsiders who treated their vanquished foe in a radically different way than Japan would have ever done had the tables been reversed. And all this "it didn't happen" nonsense is insulting, not only to the rest of the world who had to suffer through Japan's rabid expansionism, but insulting to all intelligent Japanese citizens who hope to hold their heads high in this world.

Japan should be working in earnest with outside researchers to bring more, not less, light onto their atrociously vicious imperialist past. Instead, Japanese "historians" too often choose their favorite conclusions first and then work backwards to "prove" that everyone else's history is simply wrong.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

oh SemperFi,,, Tianenmen Squarewas nothing compared to other massacres and purges over the years- of course none of them happened either.

and as for EthanWilbers comments- true Germany does not openly support the Nazi regime- however it has supported the myth that the military was not involved and moved very slowly with investigations, prosecutions and the return of property- to the point that most property never was returned to the Jews, most Nazi's lived full lives and died peacefully in their sleep and prosecutions did not happen.

and don't even get me started on France......

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Shinjuku No Yaju:

While the crimes of the Imperial Army were real, unlike the former comfort women, China isn't looking for resolution. It's looking for a bogey man it can point to in the interest of keeping its people subdued, and the international community off-balance enough for it gobble up all of the SouthChina Sea.

EXactly. Right on.!

tmaire:

"Even the playing field"? What on earth does that even mean?

It does NOT mean we make light of, or deny these massacres occurred. However ii MEANS that if these atrocities are registered, in all fairness, being a UNITED NATIONS organization, ALL the other massacres which different countries committed ( and they DID commit them, my dear) be mentioned - ------ ohhhhh, let me reach, a bit - the Boxer rebellion massacre of foreigners in China at the turn of the last century; the Spainish massacre of the Incas ( destroying a whole culture); the Sharpville massacre of black African in South Africa in 1920's; Rwanda massacre of Tutsis in the 1980's . . . . I could go on . . .

6 ( +9 / -3 )

When emotions and hidden agendas get in the way of history it becomes a farce.

Folks who have an emotion stake in something can't be objective and won't accept anything but what they believe or what they want to believe.

This is exactly what is happening here, folks here and in Communist China want to believe what they want because they have an emotional connection to this story.

If someone were to tell them, "Let's look at the evidence to confirm that it is all true" they go nuts and call folks names. The truth is somewhere, but as long as emotions are in the pot the truth will stay silent.

Like I said before, the truth will come out when the Communist in China no longer rule China. When freedom rings in China all those state secrets and crimes will come out. But, until that glorious day comes we are stuck with the farce that we have today.

majikayo!Jun. 12, 2014 - 09:10AM JST Tiananmen and Tibet first

Communist China and it's supporters here don't see those acts of crimes, they have their personal agenda blinders on.

smithinjapanJun. 12, 2014 - 09:01AM JST Effort is a two-way street, and Japan's denial of history goes backwards even on a one-way street. Documents have recently been given that prove Japan coerced women into sexual slavery and rape, and what are we seeing except more of the same denial and deflection by a government that even brags about its revision of history. Japan can't get out of it this time.

Smith, I don't know if you know it, but documents can and have been forged in the past. Until those documents you cherish so are verified by an independent group they will always be unverified.

BTW, the folks that verified those documents were the very same folks who had and have an agenda.

That agenda is money!

It's like claiming Iris Chang's works were historically accurate accounts, which they weren't. Her books and works were flawed gobbly gook created by an activist who couldn't tell reality from fiction.

Tell me something, do you believe activists wouldn't forge or fake something to try and make their point?

tmarieJun. 12, 2014 - 08:44AM JST This is why the rest of Asian, and many other coutnries, roll their eyes.

Could you please point out these nations that have "rolled their eyes". I would love to see some official link where an ambassador has stated anything that you have claimed.

I have an odd feeling that you won't reply with any proof and you will retort with the same tap dancing you did to Semperfi simple question.

Skeeter27Jun. 12, 2014 - 09:16AM JST Honestly why would Japan be at all shocked? (eyes rolling) It is a documented historic event that took place...

Yes, it took place, but what took place? What were the actual events that happened?

So many points of view and so many tales. The truth is somewhere in there, but finding it will be hard as long as Communist China is playing it's propaganda game.

Skeeter27Jun. 12, 2014 - 09:16AM JST The Japanese culture always says be honest and say sorry. Why can't the goverment follow it's culture? Criminals ALWAYS seem to confess. Why can't the goverment t?

How many apologies should the government give?

Now, if we are playing the blame game here when will Communist China acknowledge all it's atrocities and when will they build memorials to all those?

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Yes, the communist party is raising the old Japanese imperial army boogey man again, for political gain. However, the massacre merits inclusion here, if only to ensure that Japanese people get a more frank, honest account of what happened.

The Japanese government's educational directives border on censorship, and obfuscate the truth. Nanjing wasn't an "incident"; it was a massacre, which received approval from the highest levels of the government at the time.

That said, I do believe Japan has learned from its colonial past, and has been a world partner than China. The Communist Party of China (CPC) has caused more death and suffering in China than the Japanese imperial army ever did.

70 million people died in the first 50 years of communist rule. Now, the CPC is behaving like a glorified thug, stealing territory from Vietnam, Indonesia, and Tibet. It has long used intimidation to stall Taiwan's aspirations for official statehood.

The historical record should be set straight, yes. The Communist Party of China should turn its harsh gaze on itself, and on the man they have chosen to deify, Mao Tse Tung. Condemning Japan's imperial past is the "pot calling the kettle black" in this case.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

It is extremely regrettable that China is trying to play up a negative legacy from a certain period in Sino-Japanese history by using UNESCO for a political purpose, when effort needs to be made to improve ties between Japan and China said Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga

Why is the Abe administration trying to hide from History?

Not good look for Japan.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

smithinjapan, "effort is a two-street" means nothing. And if you're trying to say it takes two to tango or something similiar in this case you're wrong. While the crimes of the Imperial Army were real, unlike the former comfort women, China isn't looking for resolution. It's looking for a bogey man it can point to in the interest of keeping its people subdued, and the international community off-balance enough for it gobble up all of the SouthChina Sea. So in this case Effort is a one-way street, with a dead-end labeled "xenophobic propaganda"

3 ( +11 / -8 )

Sorry Japan, I think you are wrong here, this needs to be remembered so history does not repeat itself, but in the same light China should register the Tiananmen Square protests as well.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Man, this must be tit-for-tat week. First, China calling Japan out quite accurately for not being sincere in its apologies for wartime acts. Now Japan quite fairly calling China out for what is clearly a naked bid to use the UNESCO Memory of the World program to score political points. As if it weren't tacky enough that China seized upon D-Day rememberances to publically chastise Japan, now China does this. While it's no secret that Japanese leadership is in desperate need of growing up emotionally, China seems hell bent on winning the war of unfettered, ham-fisted immaturity.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Honestly why would Japan be at all shocked? (eyes rolling)

It is a documented historic event that took place...

The Japanese culture always says be honest and say sorry. Why can't the goverment follow it's culture?

Criminals ALWAYS seem to confess. Why can't the goverment t?

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Tiananmen and Tibet first

9 ( +17 / -8 )

Semperfi, and you do exactly what the locals do and start looking outside and pointing fingers at other countries. "But, but, they did it to!" the little boy cried. We aren't discussing what other nations do. No country is without blood on their hands but can you name me one country that buries the truth about WWII like Japan does? Nah, didn't think so.

"Even the playing field"? What on earth does that even mean?

3 ( +12 / -9 )

“It is extremely regrettable that China is trying to play up a negative legacy from a certain period in Sino-Japanese history by using UNESCO for a political purpose, when effort needs to be made to improve ties between Japan and China,”

Effort is a two-way street, and Japan's denial of history goes backwards even on a one-way street. Documents have recently been given that prove Japan coerced women into sexual slavery and rape, and what are we seeing except more of the same denial and deflection by a government that even brags about its revision of history. Japan can't get out of it this time.

3 ( +15 / -12 )

tmarie:

This is why the rest of Asian, and many other coutnries, roll their eyes.

Name me a country of the G7, or the EU for instance that have not engaged in aggression and that do not have "blood on their hands' -especially looking back to THEIR era of imperialiistic colonization of new nations . That doesn't mitigate against the charges, undeniably . . but it does demand that we EVEN the playing field. . . .AND as some more objective postesr above pointed out, we can turn to more modern examples, such a Rwanda if not the various conflagrations in mid east countries where massacres and ethnic cleansing also seem to go one with impunity..

7 ( +13 / -6 )

Beijing said the submissions were part of a need to “remember history, cherish peace and avert similar atrocities from happening again”.

Start with Tibet massacre, Cuktural Revolution, Great Leap Forward, and Tianammen Square Massacre.

-7 ( +15 / -22 )

Oh Japan... you want everyone to remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Kamikazi, Okianwa but want to deny other nations the right to remember and recognize the victims of the Japanese military. This is why the rest of Asian, and many other coutnries, roll their eyes.

I have zero problems with the "fanfare" that goes on during Aug and the memorials but I have a lot of probelms with Japan always getting into a snit about China, Korea and other countries wanting to do the same. Japan, learn from Germany please and stop behaving as the victim.

3 ( +15 / -12 )

china is right. Japan should admit their wrong doing and be gentleman a bit.

-4 ( +16 / -20 )

Japan protested to China on Wednesday after Beijing applied for the inclusion of the 1937 Nanjing massacre and the “comfort women” forced to work in wartime military brothels in a UNESCO program, the latest flare-up of tensions in relations.

In February, China condemned an application by a Japanese city to ask UNESCO to register in the same program the wills and farewell letters of World War Two kamikaze suicide pilots to highlight the importance of world peace.

So, let me make sure I understand. Japan thinks it is fine to memorialize suicide pilots, who took other people's lives, in a mis-quided belief that the Emperor was a god, but it is not OK for China to want to memorialize the victims of that same conflict. Someone please explain what I am missing.

-2 ( +13 / -15 )

You're joking, aren't you? Abe's foreign policy is the diplomatic equivalent of poking a bear with a sharp stick and then acting the baffled victim when it growls at you.

Is it me, or you think justice is only in the hands of bears ? Bears dont win always , as Vietnam and Afghanistan showed , so, nor China will win here, and the reason why China will never win is simple, actually they dont have the real support from Chinese people, and the day Chinese government would make some big mistake , it will be the end of their authoritarian rule .

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

When asked to choose between light and dark, I will always favor the light.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Somebody beat me to it, just to reinforce.....

China is within their rights to drag this up (again...), and it is true that had Japan dealt with this in a more pro-active manner, it might not be reaping such bitter fruit now. That said.......

One wonders how China would feel if Japan asked for recognition of The Great Lead Forward, or The Cultural Revolution, or June 4th? What if it was "officially" recognized that the CCP was responsible for the deaths of over 30,000,000 Chinese citizens, and that this likely represented a figure higher than the number of Chinese killed by the hated Japanese occupation?

Oh, THAT would be "blatant Western interference in China's internal affairs."

10 ( +19 / -9 )

People in the US and west constantly are perplexed by a strange phenomena in Japan: Why modem Japan is so defensive and hypersensitive when it comes to its imperial army war-time crimes.

I traveled to Germany many times, and when the subject of holocaust was brought up in the conversations, there was not a single German, young or old, male or female I had conversation with tried to defend the Nazi’s atrocities. In fact, there is the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe in Berlin to remind German about Nazi’s horrendous war-crimes. But, in Japan, Japanese war atrocities such as sex slavery is still a touchy topic in private conversations I had with Japanese people including 20-somthing.

I remember when Comfort Women Memorial in Palisades Park was erected in 2012, Japanese consulate from New York City put on a huge fuss with a furious objection toward to the township. But in the end, local government of Palisades Park rejected Japanese ridiculous demand, and the Memorial stayed.

The moral of the story is that Japan has been trying very hard to block people in the world to learn Japan’s war past, yet so far the efforts have generated little success if not futile.

5 ( +18 / -13 )

Japan blasts Chinese bid for U.N. recognition of Nanjing massacre

The interesting part of all this no one has ever agreed as to what really happened and how many people died. Communist China and other activists have faked, forged and manipulated the numbers and stories so badly that no one can tell what is real and what is not.

So, if Communist China which wasn't even a nation when this incident happened tries to get UN recognition they best get their facts and stories in order.

This has more to do with the present propaganda war than it does with the folks that died.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10662966/China-steps-up-propaganda-war-on-Japan.html

Now, for those that will try and use Iris Chang's accounts of what happened stop there. Ms Chang was no historian nor was her book (s) worth the paper they were written on. So, try harder....

Lewis Smythe, who was a missionary present during the massacre believed that the total deaths were around 40,000 while the Chinese mouth piece (People's Daily) stated that 400,000 were killed!

So where is the reality in all this? Reality lies where your political motivations rest.

Does reality matter? Not when there is a propaganda war taking place.

Were there atrocities during the battle of Nanjing? Most likely there were, but with the cut and paste mumbo jumbo propaganda game Communist China has done no one will ever really know what happened.

Well, the truth will come out when the Communist Party is no longer in charge of China. When the Communist Party is gone the truth will finally come out for many atrocities.

HaraldBloodaxeJun. 12, 2014 - 07:22AM JST You're joking, aren't you? Abe's foreign policy is the diplomatic equivalent of poking a bear with a sharp stick and then acting the baffled victim when it growls at you.

Now you're joking, Communist China is the one who has been on an aggressive Imperialistic foreign policy for the last 20 years.

Communist China has claimed 90% of the South China Sea and almost all of the East China Sea as part of it's wannabe empire. If you believe that defending itself from Communist China's aggressions is akin to "poking a bear with a stick" you are looking at this with Communist colored goggles.

If you want to blame someone for pushing Japan and all the other nation's in the region into an arms race all you need to do is look up Communist China and bingo there is your aggressor.

-1 ( +16 / -17 )

HaraldBloodaxeJun. 12, 2014 - 07:22AM JST "With the greatest effort of a any Japanese administration to mend ties with it's Asian neighbors You're joking, aren't you? Abe's foreign policy is the diplomatic equivalent of poking a bear with a sharp stick and then >acting the baffled victim when it growls at you.

You really have the cart before the horse. Does anyone seriously think that Abe would even be the PM today if it were not for China's ridiculous belligerence?

If any event deserves to be put on the World Heritage list for all of us to not forget it's the Tianenmen Square Massacre.

-5 ( +16 / -21 )

If these documents contain letters of these victims then there is no reason to exclude them. They'd then be similar to the letters and wills from Kamikaze pilots that should also be included in UNESCO's world heritage program.

However, I think the massacre and "comfort women," as events, don't really mesh with the spirit of the program. Looking through the register (which is available online) there is no mention of the holocaust, for example, outside of a few personal documents written during that time (like Anne Frank's Diaries, for example).

Far from recognizing specific events, the Memory of the World program instead seeks to show human achievement and suffering through written works (not government papers, but more personal documents).

Again, if there are letters and journals of victims, then they should be included. But this doesn't seem to be what the PRC has on offer. Instead, they want the events themselves listed, and thats not really what the register is about.

We all feel for these victims, Japan included, but this is just another politically motivated move by the PRC to make Japan (and the world, once this bid is rejected by UNESCO) look bad internationally and domestically.

12 ( +17 / -5 )

Wait a minute ! - - The government that is suppressing commemorating the victims massacred at Tianenmen Square is request THIS ???????? So HOW FAR back can we go . . .????.....Can we include the massacres of foreign nationals living in China that occurred during the BOXER REBELLION ????? ..... HOW INCLUSIVE can this be ?........ Because one doesn't need to try too hard to identify .countries elsewhere ,where in recent years massacres of thousand of people occurred . .

Mr Perfect : With the greatest effort of a any Japanese administration to mend ties with it's Asian neighbors over it's colonial past I just for the life of me can't imagine why China would do such a thing!

Agreed. . . . However reviewing recent behavior of China, when has anything it has done in Foreign Policy demonstrated an interest in peaceful collaboration ?

Harold: Abe's foreign policy is the diplomatic equivalent of poking a bear with a sharp stick and then acting the baffled victim when it growls at you

WHEN has Abe "poked" at China. ????? . . You have no idea what pro-active, conciliatory, collaborative foreign policy looks liked.

2 ( +17 / -15 )

With this kind of logic, why doesn't China ask for recognition of the Great Leap Forward?

9 ( +15 / -6 )

With the greatest effort of a any Japanese administration to mend ties with it's Asian neighbors

You're joking, aren't you? Abe's foreign policy is the diplomatic equivalent of poking a bear with a sharp stick and then acting the baffled victim when it growls at you.

15 ( +32 / -17 )

Beijing said the submissions were part of a need to “remember history, cherish peace and avert similar atrocities from happening again”.

With the greatest effort of a any Japanese administration to mend ties with it's Asian neighbors over it's colonial past I just for the life of me can't imagine why China would do such a thing! Go figure

-17 ( +12 / -29 )

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