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Japan calls on eurozone to swiftly implement Greece aid plan

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This whole Euro thing was a disaster waiting to happen. They should all go back to their own currencies and let those that fail, do it only to themselves.

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The Euro has been the worst thing introduced in Europe by far. I wish Holland would stand up just like the Uk and we wouldnt be in this shit.

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@japan gal

The Eur-'Ozone' is becoming a hole big enough not only affecting quite a few G7 & G20 members but also affecting all other countries on earth like the South Pole's Ozone hole. Hence, No one could really afford to cross our arms, or else, the world economy would likely be collapsing as a whole I am afraid !

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The only "rescue plan" for Greece that works is to let Greece leave the Eurozone, and the lender banks take a haircut. "Rescuing" this bottomless hole by sinking ever more money into it is a recipe for disaster, not only for Greece, but also the payer countries (in particular Germany, which shoulders most of it).

Jun Azumi should mind his own business and not give bad advice like this.

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Greece will be the first one to go ...followed by ....?

Invest in gold now !

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Eurozone is as disastrous as Japan's Tohoku... will cost lot of money and no quick fix in sight.

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some14:

" Eurozone is as disastrous as Japan's Tohoku... will cost lot of money and no quick fix in sight. "

Fundamentally different. Tohoku is being fixed at a steady clip, while the Eurozone keeps getting worse. With their ill-advised "rescue" programs, the Euro politicians keep trying to solve a debt problem by adding ever more debt.

I wish Europe was on the road to recovery like Tohoku. But in Europe, the tsunami is just approaching.

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Yeah, because swift implementation is Japan's forte. heheh.

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This whole Euro thing was a disaster waiting to happen. They should all go back to their own currencies and let those that fail, do it only to themselves.<

Sorry to disagree, but i live in one of the aided countries, and belive me, it´s not that simple:

1st - It would cost more to disband then to not, mainly because some currencies would be so low that the debt would rise up to 5 times or more, therefore impossible to ever get paid.

2nd - The business now made between countries in Eurozone would be dramatically afected, again because of prices, some countries would then really be bankrupt.

3rd - the countries who have invested in some of those countries funds would be, in trouble?

What i mean is that sometimes you just can't go back like that.

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Japan and Greece, two countries that have been crippled financially on purpose. They are both doomed....

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The statement that the Euro was bound to fail from the start is just not true. What is true is that some countries cheated to get into the eurozone (like Greece did). This is probably the only reason why it will be possible at some point that Greece leaves the eurozone without a global collapse of the economy. Tugamen is right: the eurozone cannot be undone.

The majority of the european countries have rather stable economies, even though the debts are high. But they are not as high as here in Japan and they are not as high as in the US. The reason why Greece is being bullied so much is not because Greece is so much worse than other countries, but that Greece has no global influence besides being part of the EU. They cannot fend for themselves on a global scale.

And since Europe has not yet grown together enough to speak with one voice in global politics, Europe as well cannot protect Greece. It is true that the lender banks must get a haircut in Europe, but that holds everywhere. And a proper haircut works only if it is applied globally. As long as there are still people claiming that the crisis affects only the others and they can just wait, the crisis will aggravate every day. The economic basis in Europe is definitely not worse than in Japan or in the US, even thought there are regions, which have fallen on hard times.

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Johannes Weber:

" he statement that the Euro was bound to fail from the start is just not true. "

The statement that the Euro was bound to fail from the start is absolutely true, and the scenario that the Euro sceptics warned warned about at the start of the Euro 10 years ago are happening exactly as they were predicted.

You can not wish for a better validation than that.

Read what Milton Friedman, Wilhalm Hankel, Max Otte, and many many other economists predicted at the start of the Euro. Precisely that is happening.

Tying such diverse economies together in one currency is sheer lunacy, and the only way to solve the problem is to remove its cause -- the common currency.

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@tugamen

1st - It would cost more to disband then to not, mainly because some currencies would be so low that the debt would rise up to 5 times or more, therefore impossible to ever get paid.

Not if those countries default! Why should the people of the PIIGS have to pay back the banks who got themselves into trouble in the first place by attempting to defraud those countries and drive them into poverty? The elitist bankers are many things but they are not stupid (well, at least intellectually). The bankers gambled and lost and now they're getting desperate.

2nd - The business now made between countries in Eurozone would be dramatically afected, again because of prices, some countries would then really be bankrupt.

Again, let them go bankrupt. If the Greeks, for example, default and return to a lower valued Drachma they can again start to rebuild their economy without worrying about a massive debt over their heads or their assets being stolen by the bankers for pennies on the dollar (as payment for the debt). As it currently stands the Greek government, as much as it would like, has no chance of repaying the debt to its banker friends. (The Greek government does not work on behalf of its people.) It's slavery without the physical shackles.

3rd - the countries who have invested in some of those countries funds would be, in trouble?

Why the big rush for governments to throw money at an obviously dysfunctional system? You really believe we'll get our money back when the bonds come due?

If you understand how money is created then you'll know that these debts are really an illusion created through the banksters' sleight of hand. The financial system died in 2008 and is being propped up like a tin shed in a typhoon.

@Johannes Weber

What is true is that some countries cheated to get into the eurozone (like Greece did).

You mean the Greek government or the Greek people? There's a difference! As I understand it, it was Goldman Sachs who cooked the books along with the corrupt Greek government to help get Greece into the Euro zone. Who do you think really benefited?

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weedkita;

" Not if those countries default! Why should the people of the PIIGS have to pay back the banks who got themselves into trouble in the first place by attempting to defraud those countries and drive them into poverty? "

Lets not go overboard here. I have not sympathy for the banksters, but the banks did not "defraud" Greece or any other PIIG country. They irresponsibly bought ever more of the high-risk, high interest PIIG bonds, which the PIIG governments can not possibly pay back -- and now they are asking Germany to compensate them. If Germany is stupid enough to this, it is the German population that is defrauded.

But the Greek bonds were issued by the Greek government, so you can only thank them for that -- and the Greek population, which expect their governments to provide ever more pork.

The corrupt PIIG economies are nothing new. But traditionally, the safety valve that mediated this behaviour was the exchange rate. With the Euro system, that safety valve is taken away, and a Greek problem becomes everybody´s problem.

You are correct in saying that a return to the Drachma is the only way out. Of course, combined with a massive haircut, or a complete government default. But after that (and ONLY after that) can things get better again.

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@weedkila:

It was the government that resorted to cheating, but this was tolerated by the populace. In most countries, the population tries to see itself and its country in brighter light than they really are. For sure, the Greek population is responsible for the horrendous failure of the Greek economy. Greece is only level 78 in worldwide corruption rankings. If people wouldn't support this system, it could not be maintained. The Greek population didn't create this problem deliberately - but they contributed to it carelessly. As such, there is no other way for Greek than a brutal reduction of the bloated public apparatus.

I think no one on this forum likes the banksters (or would admit that), but as long as there is no efficient international cooperation against this lot, the means for single countries are rather limited. If the US and the UK would support Europe, however, the international banking system could be rerformed and speculation cut down to a level, where it is still acceptable without doing too much harm.

@WilliB:

The eurozone with a common currency can be only successful with a common policy - an economic and political union. If the US didn't have a central government in Washington, it would have fallen apart long ago and the dollar would have disappeared. Europe doesn't have a central government yet and as long as there are plenty of nationalistic idiots around, Europe will not become a real political union. The idea of the euro was to accelerate this process. The European problem is not too much Europe, but too little Europe.

Actually, Germany made amazing profits by exports inside of the eurozone. I (as a German) do not see it as a general problem, if German money has to be used to save Greece - if it is used efficiently and transparently (in the German interpretation) and Greek society and politics change accordingly. And if those German companies and banks, who made most profits by exploiting the Greek deficit spending bear a fair (meaning high) share of the burden.

Even if Greece returns to the Drachme, it will be the other eurozone countries who have to bail it out. Europe cannot afford a politically unstable country in the union.

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bailouts bailouts bailouts

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It was the government that resorted to cheating, but this was tolerated by the populace. In most countries, the population tries to see itself and its country in brighter light than they really are. For sure, the Greek population is responsible for the horrendous failure of the Greek economy. Greece is only level 78 in worldwide corruption rankings.

Indeed, corruption in Greece dates backs to Ottoman occupation when the so called "rousfeti" ("Rusvet" in Turkish) was used in order to achieve a goal or take a position. Things became even worse during the 1980s when the Socialist government of Pasok and the Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou (father of the current Prime Minister George Papandreou) gave benefits and higher salaries to Public Employers in order to ensure their votes for the elections. It was the time when the thriving Greek economy, (just check for the "Greek economic miracle of '50s - '70s" and you will see a TOTALLY different Greece), slowed down and a Soviet style economy was implemented with terrible consequences.

However, if the Greek government had made a referendum back in the late '90s about the adoption or not of the Euro currency i am sure that at least the 90% of the population would have been AGAINST the adoption of Euro. It was something that we Greeks were never asked if we want or not; and now the Greeks and the Euro zone pay the consequences.

In my view, you can not have economic unity without having achieved a political one. This is a must in order to create a common currency for countries with so different economies and different political and social characteristics. As for Greece, it is a shame for a country that few years ago hosted successfully the Olympic games to end up begging for money. However, some of the criticism is unfair and completely ignoring the true facts. I have heard and read things like: Greeks retire at 50, Greeks are lazy, Greeks produce nothing etc. Well, Greece has not only the tourist industry, but also the largest merchant fleet in the world. Its GDP in 2010 was the 32nd highest in the world surpassing countries such as Finland, UAE, Chech Republic, Singapore, Israel, etc. What Greece lacks significantly is global influence. It is definitely not a weak country economically and i believe that it deserves to be assisted by the fellow member states, following of course the implementation of the necessary austerity measures in the public and private sector as well as the imposition of bold reforms in order to make the country more competitive. If Europe fails to do so, it means that it is unable to protect its member states. And then, it will be only a matter of time before the Euro currency collapses.

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@WilliB

In his post Antonios_M @ 7:19am says; "if the Greek government had made a referendum back in the late '90s about the adoption or not of the Euro currency i am sure that at least the 90% of the population would have been AGAINST the adoption of Euro. It was something that we Greeks were never asked if we want or not; and now the Greeks and the Euro zone pay the consequences."

So evidently the Greek government joined the euro without getting approval from the Greek people on such an important issue, even though it is now obvious they should not have joined. On top of that the government had assistance, as I said, from the bankers to cheat their way into the euro by "massaging" the books.

It was the same in other European countries too. I don't recall clearly but the majority of Dutch and French voters were against joining the euro and had no opportunity to hold a referendum. The Irish were deceived into joining through a second referendum. The politicians only got the second one through because it was amended from the rejected earlier one to include "generous" conditions, but ultimately they were conned as we can now see.

You're right that the German government stupidly bought the Greek bonds. However the German people were initially reluctant to join the euro and did so only after they were given assurances that they would not have to bail out the weaker countries if they got into trouble. The politicians lied and the German people were double crossed. Like the Greek government, the German government is also acting independently of the German people's wishes when it comes to these bailouts and I'm sure you know there has been a lot of resistance.

Then there was Vaclav Klaus who held out until the last minute. He did not want to take his country into the euro but had to finally concede, perhaps through coercion. So to say that the bankers/globalists did not defraud (and deceive) Greece or any of the other countries is incorrect.

@Johannes Weber

It was the government that resorted to cheating, but this was tolerated by the populace.

Did you ask them? How do you know that the populace knew and tolertated everything that was going on?

For sure, the Greek population is responsible for the horrendous failure of the Greek economy. Greece is only level 78 in worldwide corruption rankings.

Sure the Greeks have some responsibility but you can say that about almost any country. Their government should not have joined the euro but the people really had no choice with regard to what their traitorous government was up to. With crushing compound interest and their debt spiralling out of control how and why would they possibly want to pay it all back under such conditions? Yet the parasitical and corrupt creditor banks demand it. It's just too easy to blame it on the Greeks - yeah they're lazy and spent too much. Do you say the same about the Irish who rejected their first referendum on the euro, since they're in a similar situation.

If the US and the UK would support Europe, however, the international banking system could be reformed and speculation cut down to a level, where it is still acceptable without doing too much harm.

What, support the EU using billions, if not trillions more of the US and UK people's tax money? This is more proof that you have no understanding of the situation, or if you do then you're a part of the problem.

What do you mean when you say "the international banking system could be reformed …"?

If you mean the Wall Street banks, the French or British investment banks etc then that's only part of the problem. If only banks like these are targeted then the system will not be reformed, not really, and will eventually bounce back. These banks are really only transactional and focussing on them is actually a meme to distract from the real issue. The crux of the problem and the real culprits of the disaster we now have are the shadowy owners of the central banks and their fractional reserve system. The fact that they can print as much money as they like from thin air means they have almost complete control. ie Money Power.

During the depression of the 30s the same thing happened. People were misled into protesting against the Wall Street banks. There were lawsuits and bankruptcies but the central banking system remained untouched and bounced back to what we have today. Under a central banking system currencies are delinked to assets and the price of money is fixed so that you have boom, bust, boom, bust.

To really reform the system means getting rid of central banks and removing the power from the multi-generational, Anglo-American elitist families who own and control them. A good start would be getting rid of one of their pet projects, the euro, which is central to their eventual goal of global control.

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WilliB

(The banks) irresponsibly bought ever more of the high-risk, high interest PIIG bonds, which the PIIG governments can not possibly pay back

Ps: I agree with you on this but logically speaking why would they do this if they knew the PIIGS couldn't pay them back? If you have a reason other than what I posited above I'd be interested to hear. Surely it can't have been just greed.

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Tying such diverse economies together in one currency is sheer lunacy, and the only way to solve the problem is to remove its cause -- the common currency.

If this is true, then tell me how the US dollar still exists? The economic disparity between federal states in the US is larger than between the states in the Euro zone. Many US states, such as Nevada, Illinois, Texas, Oregon and last but not least California are on the verge of bankruptcy. On the other hand, none of them has such a high debt ratio like Greece. When we go back in history we can see that in 1837 eight US states defaulted and in 1933 Arkansas went bankrupt. The dollar survived these events and there is no reason why Greece should leave the Euro in case of default.

In the US all states now have constitutional limits on public debt, something which only exists for a few states in Europe. While this is certainly no magic bullet (we see rising fears of state bancruptcy again in the US), it is definetely something which European states should introduce as fast as possible.

The reason why Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal are in crisis is similar to what led to the crisis in 1837: wages in these states have risen too fast, making their economies uncompetitive in comparison. Some painful adjustments to salaries would be required, but making these adjustments too fast will kill economic growth and make the debt situation worse. Something like a decade of pay freezes seems more suitable, maybe even in legally binding way. Ireland is a different case since they made the strategic mistake to publically guarantee all deposits in Irish banks during the crisis in 2008.

A break up of the Euro would have devastating consequences world wide and one of those who would get hurt most is Japan. Thus Azumi-san's worries are quite real.

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Kind of ironic to hear this from Japan that is never able to swiftly implemement anything at all..don,t you think? .:)

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