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Japan defies S Korean call not to use rising sun flag at naval event

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'Accuses Tokyo of not atoning enough for the atrocities committed before and during the war'.

There is a limit to pettiness. How harmless can they be by raising a flag? Generosity is a dying breed these days.

And clearly forgiveness is even harder to find. Give it a few more centuries and they will still be complaining and nagging about it. I don't see them complaining about their own Korean war every year.

17 ( +27 / -10 )

Hey South Korea, the Japanese naval ensign flies side by side our Stars & Stripes in joint exercises most of which is in support of defense of South Korea. Your country really needs to wake up and smell the kimchee. Get a clue.

13 ( +23 / -10 )

If it's not one thing its another. If South Korea really wants to improve relations with Japan, they have got to learn to not sweat the small stuff.

14 ( +21 / -7 )

Japan really has two choices here.

Stay home or comply and hoist a Hinomaru flag, which IS Japan's national flag and JMSDF should have absolutely no problem or shame waving it.

Rising Sun Flag by comparison is already banned at the AFC, OFC, etc.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2017/05/04/japanese-club-disciplined-over-war-time-flag-in-south-korea/101275016/

Japanese club disciplined over war-time flag in South Korea

AP Published 1:39 a.m. ET May 4, 2017

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — Kawasaki Frontale of Japan was one of three clubs disciplined by the Asian Football Confederation over "discrimination and spectator misconduct" at recent matches.

Kawasaki Frontale was fined $15,000 and ordered to host one future match in AFC club competitions without spectators. The stadium spectator ban was suspended for a probationary period of one year.

-15 ( +9 / -24 )

It's an official Japan Navy flag. They have a right to fly it.

17 ( +27 / -10 )

Imagine the German navy ship arriving waving a Nazi Swastika flag.

Actually it would be more accurate to compare it to a German unit still using the Iron Cross. Which they still do. The Swastika was a symbol of the political party, not the military.

19 ( +26 / -7 )

@Gabare Japan!

It's an official Japan Navy flag.

It's called War Criminal Flag outside of Japan.

They have a right to fly it.

And Japan's neighbors have the right to not see that flag within their territory.

@extanker

Actually it would be more accurate to compare it to a German unit still using the Iron Cross.

Try explaining that to the AFC and the OCA(Olympic Council of Asia).

-19 ( +8 / -27 )

@Samit Basu

Kyokujitsu-ki is a banner that exceeds Imperial Japan by several centuries and has its roots in the early Edo Period. Its relation to Japan far exceeds Imperial Japan and it is highly illogical to tie solely to the period of imperialism. If you were to tell the JMSDF not to fly the Kyokujitsu-ki than you better ask the UK to furl the Union Jack because it'd be basically asking for the same thing.

18 ( +22 / -4 )

So Germany can use swaztikas?

-18 ( +4 / -22 )

No Germany does not use swatstika because they've made it illegal because of its use during WWII. Seemingly Japan has not learned this lesson and is stuck on its fascist history and legacy. This holds back Japan on international stage. Its pathetic and sad.

-20 ( +3 / -23 )

melonbarmonster

Do the research... the Swastika represented a political party and was a flag invented in the 1930s that was a distortion of a Buddhist symbol. The Kyokujitsu-ki (JMSDF flag) is a far older banner that has cultural significance. There's absolutely no reason to tie the symbolism to Imperial Japan.

14 ( +19 / -5 )

The Kyokujitsu-ki (JMSDF flag) is a far older banner that has cultural significance. There's absolutely no reason to tie the symbolism to Imperial Japan

Sigh, even more apologies for an unapologetic war criminal state. It does not matter if the flag was made in the second century. It was used when japan was ravaging it's neighbors and if you stopped for a moment, and removed the blinders from your eyes and empathized even for a brief moment for the victims who can not move on from that terrible period if images of rape and destruction are perpetually conjured up by a, yes, unapologetic war criminal state. It's why I always say this on every article that stirs the pot of hatred, japan will never be accepted as apologetic unless they follow the German model of acts of contrition. Nothing more. Nothing less.

-14 ( +5 / -19 )

@CyburneticTiger

The Kyokujitsu-ki (JMSDF flag) is a far older banner that has cultural significance. 

Swastika predates Jesus and is literally thousands of years old, and is an important symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism, yet that didn't prevent the banning of Swastika in the Nazi war crimes context.

The Rising Sun flag used in the military context likewise must be banned.

-16 ( +4 / -20 )

Fred,

I'll patiently wait for your condemnation and outrage over the British Empire who invaded nearly every continent and guilty of genocide in several places. Better pull the Union Jack down because that's a clear symbol of the Empire's atrocities. Or we can also look at the US, French, or Spanish.  

We can't just pick and choose who we want pick on.... Also, Japan has apologized serval times but some people fail to move on.

Samit Basu, so you've been proven wrong and want to move the goal post now?

11 ( +18 / -7 )

This is really a difficult issue. If Japan can say it had been reborn as a democracy in 1945, completely shedding its imperial past, then everything that suggests its imperial past must be discarded. Post-war Germany discarded Nazi Germany's swastika and adopted the Weimar Republic's tricolor flag to distinguish itself from Nazism. What should Japan do about its national flag?

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

voiceofokinawa

If Japan can say it had been reborn as a democracy in 1945, completely shedding its imperial past,

Sadly, Japan can't say this, thanks to its prime minister who thinks Japan's best days were 1939 and seeks to turn back the clock.

What should Japan do about its national flag?

Nothing. Japan's national flag Hinomaru is welcome.

However the Rising Sun flag is NOT Japan's national flag, this flag is always used in Japan's military context back in the Imperial days and today, and qualifies as hate speech by AFC and OCA and waving it in AFC soccer matches and Asian games by fans can get the Japanese team in trouble and face sanctions.

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

Samut Basu, I agree.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Perhaps South Korea would like Japan to run up the white flag.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

There's been a confusion on my part about the English translation of Japan's national flag (日章旗) vs. Japan's naval ensign (旭日旗). The former is translated into English as the Rising Sun and the latter as the Rising Sun Flag, a source of confusion indeed.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

'll patiently wait for your condemnation and outrage over the British Empire who invaded nearly every continent and guilty of genocide in several places.

Tiger, Im actually appalled you are getting likes. But thats cognitive dissonance in overdrive so no surprises there. Not calling out english atrocities, doesnt' negate japans. Not calling out americas atrocities does not negate japans. This article is regards japan. I hope you see the point.

Japan has apologized serval times but some people fail to move on.

How so exactly? Does apologizing involve continuously denying acts of atrocity? Does it involve venerating war criminals every year to spite their affected neighbors?Does it involve revision of history in school books denying historical facts of acts of atrocity to the next generation ? Does it involve bullying world bodies with financial reductions if they fail to toe their line? Ill repeat, German model of acts of contrition are the only thing that will show japan REALLY apologized.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

How much do you want to bet that in 2030 the Japanese and the Korean governments will still be arguing about this.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Onodera may also be confusing the two flags.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Japan should change their flag, simple. They were the aggressor of times past. Change it, have done with it, leave no excuses, move on. But this issue continues, and I can sort of understand it.. Japan of Old... Japan of New... same flag, same ideals, different faces ? Simply sort out the complaints, aint difficult, you lost Japan, sort it out.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

P.S. YES - I do see Japan's use of the Himawari flag as provocative within Asia just as I would see Germany's continued use of the Swastika within Europe.

Does anyone see otherwise to this ?

And if Japan, can continue to use the Himawari flag, then surely we should allow Germany to use the Swastika.

Please explain.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

How much do you want to bet that in 2030 the Japanese and the Korean governments will still be arguing about this.

In 2030, there would not be the Korean governments, only a united Korea under North Kim.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

mmwkdw “I do see Japan's use of the Himawari flag as provocative within Asia”

A himawari flag; I’d like to see that!

https://www.ootaflag.co.jp/design/archives/30

4 ( +4 / -0 )

When Koreans raised this rising sun flag issue?

In 2011 Asian Cup semi-final of Japan vs. ROK, Ki Sung-yueng of ROK made a goal by PK and imitated a monkey, which is an action to insult Japan in Korea.

As so many people condemned him by this action, he made an excuse as;

"I got tears when I saw the rising sun flag in the auditorium, because I am a Korean citizen before an succor player." (But this was found out not true later. There was no such a flag.)

And this ridiculous much ado started. Koreans had not complain about the rising sun flag so much before that, even in Seoul Olympics.

https://twitter.com/ZF_phantom/status/1040637853628194816

4 ( +6 / -2 )

How so exactly? Does apologizing involve continuously denying acts of atrocity? Does it involve venerating war criminals every year to spite their affected neighbors?

As usual, people who state things like this make intellectual dishonesty a point of pride. A memorial that includes all war dead will necessarily include war criminals or people who at least acted dishonorably. For example, the Vietnam War memorial in Washington includes the name of Lieutenant Colonel Frank Barker. Barker was the commanding officer of the Task Force Barker of which Company C of 1st Battalion, 20th Regiment, commanded by First Lieutenant William Calley Jr., that carried out the My Lai Massacre. Initial investigations of the massacre placed some of the blame on Barker, but he was not tried since he was killed in a helicopter crash before the massacre became public. Nobody accuses people of venerating war criminals for visiting the Vietnam War memorial, however.

Likewise using the rising sun flag isn't an attempt to ignore or re-write the past, in the same way that using the Union Jack doesn't make you an apologist for British imperial actions.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

So have all of you purposefully ignored the fact that Germany does still use the symbol for their military, the Iron Cross, that they used during WWII? It's been repeatedly explained that the swastika was the symbol of the Nazi political party, NOT the German military. It's exactly the same thing. The rising sun flag is the symbol of the military, just like the iron cross. Ban them all, or ban none of them. (but banning any of them is just childish)

And yes, the fact that Korea has no problem with flags of other nations that also invaded and colonized other countries in the past, like the British Union Jack, is completely hypocritical and shows how narrow minded they are.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@extanker

are the countries that Britain colonized calling for an end to the Union Jack? Because if not then it's not a fair comparison. Korea is neither obligated nor entitled to speak for how other countries respond to colonial history. That being said, though I've never heard of such an issue, if other countries do have widespread calls against the Union Jack then it would be hypocritical for Korea not to support it, but it definitely isn't Korea's place to bring up the issue on behalf of others.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@rowanM

It has nothing to do with other countries calling for it or not. This is an international event. They either treat all countries equally or they are being childish and petty. That's like you have a room full of men who beat their wives, but you don't allow one man in because he beat your wife.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Speaking of an unfair comparison, is it NOT fair to compare ‘Rising Sun Flag’ and ‘Swastika Flag’ to start with? That’s what this issue all about.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

1) That flag has been used since 19th century as the symbol of Japan, not militarism Japan.

2) It was hoisted in same even of 1998 and 2008 but Koreans said nothing.

3) It became the issue in 2011 when MonKi-Sungyueng used the flag as the excuse to avoid sanction by racism. https://blog.naver.com/zero53/221367727799

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Speaking of an unfair comparison, is it NOT fair to compare ‘Rising Sun Flag’ and ‘Swastika Flag’ to start with? That’s what this issue all about.

Once again, no it is not fair to compare the two. The rising sun flag is only a symbol of the Japanese military and has been in use for much longer than just during Japan's WWII ambitions. The swastika was a symbol of the Nazi political party, not the German military. The German military still uses the iron cross symbol that they used during WWII.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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