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Japan demands China withdraw plane encounter video footage

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“The planes (in the video) are different,” he said in response to a reporter’s question about the rationale behind Japan’s assertion, adding Japan lodged a protest late on Thursday and demanded that Beijing take down the footage.

I have no doubt that the Communist Party of China is engineering the evidence to suit their position. They do that with pretty much everything.

But I would like more details on how these planes are different. We all know that this move was justified, Japan is a responsible member of the international community, just tell us why this particular situation was different.

0 ( +18 / -17 )

Agani, Japan falls in the trap. It looks like they're asking for a cover-up.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

Japan is a responsible member of the international community

lol! Thanks for the laugh!

1 ( +23 / -22 )

If it never happened, why the need to remove the proof? Ah, but Suge has been quite adamant about requesting such things lately whenever China reveals documents or video footage to the world. If it's fake, it should be very easy to prove and be kept up as proof that China is lying. If it's authentic, Japan can't claim they did not do what China claims and demand China take it down.

Makes no sense to demand the footage be taken down if Suge can prove the footage is fake.

11 ( +22 / -11 )

If indeed the footage is fake then it is to Japan's advantage to have it shown. Asking for it o be withdrawn does not make any sense and actually looks bad for Japan. Let's have the TRUTH for a change! Wonder if it's a clip from Top Gun like North Korea used before...

17 ( +17 / -0 )

Not sure why it needs to be taken down? Doesn't mate much sense unless it's authentic..

9 ( +10 / -1 )

China:s "Video killed your PROPAGANDA Star!!" Oooh Oooh

They flew too close!!! Ooowah Oooowah Japan filed a protest Ooowah Oooowah

I remember back in 82 There was no YouTube and people had no clue But it's the digital age so whatcha gonna do?

Japan denies it!!! Oooowahh Oooowah Japan doesn't like it !!!! Oooowah Ooowah

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

Many YouTube Viewers have already seen the footage. If it is authentic, one Chinese plane have been sandwiched between two Japanese fighter jets. However it can be tested whether the footage is fake or real. if it is fake, China is the lier. If it is real, Japan is the lier.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Let's see the video and judge for ourselves. Asking for its removal will just make people suspicious.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Hmmm where's the link?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@FPSRussia

Enjoy the link!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS1vw8Svk0Q

3 ( +4 / -1 )

There's the biggest PR mistake of the week. It's enough to ridicule them, no need to take them seriously (unless it's Japan that's telling the lies).

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Amazing, there is such kind of demand on this situation in the world.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China called Japan's bluff, the fighter jets have Japanese logos on them, they are surrounding the China plane. Sorry Japan you tried your best but failed.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

'Flyfalcon'-- thanks, that was very informative...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

some comments saying that video is from 2013?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

hmmm saw the video and two very obvious things That is more than 30 meters The planes are in escorting formation

Additionally why the first plane image is cut just before its breaking away?

And side notes... the footage can be very well of an older event. Video edition is very possible.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

china is just terrible.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Nothing to show this video is what happened the day of the alleged incident, some say this is footage from 2013, how do we even know where this footage was taken, who would know?

China is known to be very deceptive and untruthful and also Japan often cannot be trusted,

We do know that China has been provoking things and would engineer a situation to try to justify its action, I say to Japan tread very carefully China is trying its damnedest to set a trap.

Are there any recorded recent incidents of Japan provoking China in the air or on the high seas ? My answer is no.

Are there any recent recorded incidents of China provoking Japan in the air or on the high seas ? My answer is Y E S .

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

As long as China confines its battle against Japan to accumulating 'likes' on Youtube, I can live with that.

Also, why is the video so grainy? Seems suspicious. Maybe the JSDF should give the PRC some high quality Japanese video cameras as a goodwill gesture.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Okay, I saw the link. I'm maintaining an open mind but watching with a critical eye. I see a shot of a plane flying to the right of another plane, and a shot of of a plane flying to the left of a Chinese plane. Actually, I'm assuming the plane with the camera is Chinese. I don't see any parts in which we see for sure that the plane with the camera is between the other planes, and I don't see any clear markings, at least not any that help me identify the kinds of planes these are. So... if the videos are not accurate, then Japan is correct to complain, but they need to present their story as well. If the planes models are different from those in the video, then get on YouTube with the info.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I loved the video, it was so bloody funny how the Communist play their games. The typical tactic of Communist is to place their military equipment in harms way, veer into their enemy and then start taking the videos or picture. This way they make it seem as if they were the victims. But the truth is they were the perpetrator.

Loved the zoomed in shots of the Japanese planes, made them look even closer than what they really were! LOL

When dealing with Communist propaganda expect the unexpected.

Next, they will intentionally fly one of their planes into a Japanese ship and claim it was Japan's fault.

Also, I love the usual suspects coming to the defense of Communist China!

You guys give me tons of laughs!

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Looks like the video was taken with the "hi-phone5C" 2MP camera. So low quality.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Fat chance of that. Since when has a protest ever stopped the Chinese propaganda machine?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

"Japan demands abc withdraw def video footage".

Also known as censorship.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

China haha hahahahah that video is a POS! FAIL!!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Don't know what's the big deal. Japan oficially announces the numbers of scramblings and they perform that on daily basis reaching numbers like 800 per year. Don't know what's the point of China showing a video of it when it was peerformed without any dangerous movements from Japanese side. All they showed was a normal procedure.

Agani, Japan falls in the trap. It looks like they're asking for a cover-up.

Cover up for what? That they scramble Chinese planes? They kept on doing this and informing about that for years so what they want to cover up?

If it is real, Japan is the lier.

Why Japan is a liar? They didn't say it didn't happened. So what's the big lie of Japanese side in this one because I can't get it.

China called Japan's bluff, the fighter jets have Japanese logos on them, they are surrounding the China plane. Sorry Japan you tried your best but failed.

Failed in what? As I said earlier - they perform scamblings on a daily basis and never said that they don't do that. What's the the big scheme behind your logic?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Sorry Japan, but this is where history catches up with the story you are trying to promote. If the international community could believe in Japan's sincere atonement for its WW2 atrocities, there would be a much greater willingness to accept that Japan is a victim of Chinese propaganda.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Really, this was a dumb tactic. If it is fake, prove it is fake. If it is real but you think you can sell it as fake anyway, it might be worth a try (not very honest but we're talking politics). If it is undeniably real, there's nothing to do but mokusatsu. Complaining is the dumbest counter.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Will empowered cease wasting precious resources on military posturing and channel urgently to improve quality of life, air, water, food???

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If the children must play these games then some one will get hurt its about time both countries recognised the area is disputed and left each other to its own devices not forcing their power onto the issue. I suggest the pilots wave, smile then thumb up each other or practice dog fighting in the air.be a great exercise for the pilots concerned .

0 ( +1 / -1 )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS1vw8Svk0Q

I just saw the video. Looks real to me. Two Japanese fighters flying about 30meters away from Chinese plane.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

I just saw the video. Looks real to me. Two Japanese fighters flying about 30meters away from Chinese plane.

You forgot one '0' there. It's surely more than 200 meters between both aircraft.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

AsianhometownJun. 13, 2014 - 07:38PM JST I just saw the video. Looks real to me. Two Japanese fighters flying about 30meters away from Chinese plane.

Please, you always side against Japan at every turn. So coming here and making it seem as if you actually looked at this video objectively is disingenuous.

I will ask you a very obvious question, where is the time stamp?

Then, if you wouldn't mind, could you please tell us how much time had elapsed from the beginning of this so called incident and the start of the Communist crew filming this?

No one here can actually tell what happened and when because Communist China doesn't want folks to ask those questions.

Communist China is trying to make hay out of something they manufactured for their propaganda war against Japan and the US.

This is just more bs propaganda brought to the world by Communist China.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

JoeBiggs: "No one here can actually tell what happened and when because Communist China doesn't want folks to ask those questions."

Actually, pot, it seems quite clear it's Japan that doesn't want folks asking questions here -- or wait... how is demanding the footage be removed? If it's fake, as you so adamantly believe, why not prove it and leave it up as validation? But I can understand the rush to have it taken down if it's true and your utterly embarrassed that China is right.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

'No one here can actually tell what happened and when because Communist China doesn't want folks to ask those questions'

No, they can't.

'But the truth is they were the perpetrator.'

It seems you alone can see the 'truth'. Quite a gift.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

But I can understand the rush to have it taken down if it's true and your utterly embarrassed that China is right.

What 'utterly embarassed' you're talking about? Surely it's not Japan.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Okay, here is a simple question for all those Communist China supporters....

Where is the time stamp on this proof of yours?

You can't say when the video actually began and who did what. Editing is propaganda's best friend.

smithinjapanJun. 13, 2014 - 08:54PM JST Actually, pot,

Well, I don't do drugs and I think this story has nothing to do with drugs.....

See, I too can manipulate even your sentence.

smithinjapanJun. 13, 2014 - 08:54PM JST it seems quite clear it's Japan that doesn't want folks asking questions here -- or wait... how is demanding the footage be removed?

Well, that's real simple, if someone makes false claims against you would you sit by and say nothing? It's simple Smith, Japan will not sit by and allow Communist China defame their name with false stories and video.

Simple question and a simple answer.

JimizoJun. 13, 2014 - 09:14PM JST No, they can't. 'But the truth is they were the perpetrator.' It seems you alone can see the 'truth'. Quite a gift.

If I were blinded by Communist propaganda of a hatred of Japan, I too would defend this latest Communist ploy. But, unlike many here I know how Communist use propaganda as a tool to manipulate the truth.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Where is the time stamp on this proof of yours?

I must wonder ... why is the time stamp so critical? Maybe they just took it on one without such a capability.

Besides, if they DID have a time stamp ... geez, a little string of numbers superimposed on the image ... that must be tough to fake. It simply doesn't increase credibility very much.

Well, that's real simple, if someone makes false claims against you would you sit by and say nothing? It's simple Smith, Japan will not sit by and allow Communist China defame their name with false stories and video.

No you won't sit by. However, if you can prove those claims are false, this would be infinitely more effective than trying to ask them to take it down.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What I find interesting about these "Encounters" is that to date, there has not been any Fighter Jets from either side, going up against each other.

Have you all noticed that its usually a Fighter Jet vs Surveillance Plane(s)?

I am only guessing that the reasoning for this, may be that Fighter Pilots; may actually engage each other in an Aerial Dual, Lock Radars on each other - leading to a Fighter Pilot deploying a Stinger Missile (fearing for his life) and in turn downing one of the Fighters - hence creating a serious international incident sparking rebukes from either side that one started the agression causing the loss of the Fighter Jet and possibly the death of the pilot resulting in sanctions and other forms of economical punishments to one side or the other.

I can only speculate it all has something to do with that "Status Quo" thing which neither side wishes to disrupt as it feeds their economies.

...just something I've been observing lately.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

JoeBiggs: "Well, I don't do drugs and I think this story has nothing to do with drugs....."

Ever heard of "pot calls the kettle black"? I was obviously pointing out the hypocrisy of your statement.

"Well, that's real simple, if someone makes false claims against you would you sit by and say nothing?"

No, I would prove it was false. Japan can't.

"Japan will not sit by and allow Communist China defame their name with false stories and video."

The onus is on you, and Japan, to prove it's false. And the whole 'timestamp' excuse is nonsense. I don't take photos or videos with timestamps, important or not. They are Japanese jets, and flying very close to the Chinese aircraft, which is dangerous. Japan doesn't want the world to see this and is demanding it be taken down, and you've fallen right into it.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

'If I were blinded by Communist propaganda of a hatred of Japan, I too would defend this latest Communist ploy. But, unlike many here I know how Communist use propaganda as a tool to manipulate the truth.'

No hatred of Japan here. I've lived happily here for 15 years. It may shock you to know that other posters here are also aware of the propaganda tactics of 'Communist'. We don't need to be made aware of this. Your claims to know the 'truth' about this incident are based on precisely what?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

No one here can actually tell what happened and when because Communist China doesn't want folks to ask those questions.

Is Mr Itsunori Onodera still on duty as defense minister ? He can actually tell what happened because he has been reported about the incident. He has to tell the truth.

Only kindergarten folks will trust communist China propaganda and twist and turn Japan fabrication.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Japan-China-at-odds-over-plane-encounter-as-tensions-mount

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Kazuaki ShimazakiJun. 13, 2014 - 09:34PM JST I must wonder ... why is the time stamp so critical? Maybe they just took it on one without such a capability.

If you see the video you will note that the shots are taken at different times and angles. A tactic used by the Soviets and Communist Chinese was to maneuver their planes or boats into the way of the fighters or ships and then start rolling. This would make it seem as if they were the victims and not the aggressors.

Now, if memory serves me the usual trailing tactic was to stay behind the target, but in this video the jets are seen at different angles at different times. So, no one can say the Communist Chinese wasn't deliberately banking into the Japanese planes and filming.

Kazuaki ShimazakiJun. 13, 2014 - 09:34PM JST Besides, if they DID have a time stamp ... geez, a little string of numbers superimposed on the image ... that must be tough to fake. It simply doesn't increase credibility very much.

Makes a world of difference

Kazuaki ShimazakiJun. 13, 2014 - 09:34PM JST No you won't sit by. However, if you can prove those claims are false, this would be infinitely more effective than trying to ask them to take it down.

Japan is playing this game diplomatically, Communist China isn't. The next move is now up to Communist China's, let's see what happens.

You will understand what I mean later.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

No, I would prove it was false. Japan can't.

They lied openly about Japanese aircraft being too close to the Chinese Tu. What's more to call it a lie when they published the videos and you can clearly see that none of the footage showed it being as close as 30 meters. 300 meters would be the safe distance and that's what Japanese F-15J did.

The onus is on you, and Japan, to prove it's false.

Accusing Japan without any evidence of performing 'dangerous manouvers' is a lie from the start. What's there to be prooven?

Japan doesn't want the world to see this and is demanding it be taken down, and you've fallen right into it.

The Japanese point behind that is not to show videos like that because it happens all the time and there's no need for showing how the scramble manouver works. Maybe it's worth for Chinese public propaganda but not for Japanese military and surely it doesn't do better for the Sino-Japanese relations.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Jimizo: "No hatred of Japan here. I've lived happily here for 15 years. It may shock you to know that other posters here are also aware of the propaganda tactics of 'Communist'. We don't need to be made aware of this. Your claims to know the 'truth' about this incident are based on precisely what?"

Exactly! The "hatred of Japan" argument is the actual admittance of a lack thereof. No proper retort? well, then, the other poster must be a J-basher and therefore also a China supporter, etc. etc. You see this on ALL levels of society here among the radicals, be they Japanese politicians of Japanophiles from overseas, or whatever else. I mean, just look; you attack the science of whaling and you are attacking Japanese culture, etc. Yesterday you were a Japan basher if you did not agree with Japan's demand to withdraw the UNESCO bid for PROOF of Nanjing and that Japan coerced women into sexual slavery. They just can't argue back so you are therefore a Japan hater.

JoeBiggs: "So, no one can say the Communist Chinese wasn't deliberately banking into the Japanese planes and filming."

But you seem to be saying definitively that they were without the burden of proof. Again, hypocrisy.

"Japan is playing this game diplomatically, Communist China isn't."

No, they're not. As with the aforementioned sex-slave documents and Nanjing documents being applied for UNESCO status, Japan is whining and demanding the applications and video be withdrawn because they are being humiliated. The irony is that it is getting more attention than ever.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

We call this, "the thief judges by his condition". If you have nothing to worry about, let the evidence be presented.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This is such obviously fabricated Chinese propaganda. Not because Japan is not capable of hiding a secret. But because if it really happened as China claims they would have announced it to the world with the "video" to support their ridiculous claims of a "return to Japanese militarism" last year when the incident allegedly occurred. That this highly Japan-damaging news is released a year later by China AFTER Japan complains about China's planes is another example of how China believes the international community are idiots. "Beijing rejected accusing Tokyo of trying to “deceive international community”. This is very funny coming from the country that has a PRIOR in this activity, knocking down a US surveillance plane in 2001, and even SHOOTING DOWN an unarmed civilian airliner in 1954.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

I have seen the Chinese news report on HDTV. It is clear as daylight and the evidence crystal clear. It is now China's duty to show it to all embassies throughout the world to show who is lying through the nose. The US Congress, Senate, CIA, FBI and Hagel and Kerry must have seen the video and kept their traps shut! Let's see what comments finally come from them after close door deliberations and conniving!

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

@FPSRussia

Enjoy the link!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS1vw8Svk0Q

If that's the whole video, then the planes weren't within 30 feet of the Chinese plane. 100 feet maybe, but not 30.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

'This is such obviously fabricated Chinese propaganda.'

I've spent quite a bit of time in China. Many there don't have the capacity to see beyond a reflexive rejection of anything which contradicts the narrative. Weighing the evidence isn't an issue. That's the product of a one-party system controlling education. What's your excuse?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

If you see the video you will note that the shots are taken at different times and angles. A tactic used by the Soviets and Communist Chinese was to maneuver their planes or boats into the way of the fighters or ships and then start rolling. This would make it seem as if they were the victims and not the aggressors.

It looks like there are 2 sequences, one with the F-15 on the right side and one on the left (wingman?). Now, having actually seen the film, I agree that the ASDF plane looks a whole lot more than 30m away, and I've already seen enterprising Japanese do stadiametric calculations to place the F-15 over 300m away.

But in any case, the timestamp is not critical. If they put one on, and it doesn't match the scene, they're lying. It might make it look more credible, but it doesn't really affect the truth value.

Japan is playing this game diplomatically, Communist China isn't. The next move is now up to Communist China's, let's see what happens.

Demanding retractions is not really diplomatic. Since this is something that can be quickly solved just by taking screencaps and doing some quick stadiametric calculations on it, I can't see why the Japanese don't just douse the fire by putting such an explanation on the Foreign or Defense Ministry website.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

good to c how new strategies are now being used with the use of technology from the part of china, especially with the use of camera and internet to publish the video...china as well was the first to create its own air defense zone that also cover senkaku area..now this can also become another source to cement or create more credibility toward that first move,,especially in downgrading japan's image if the video happens to offer certain levels of acceptability...increment actions by china seems quite well and cautiously planned and implemented while japan is still on the side of pointing and blaming,,,i bet japan can be more than that with the technologies they have, etc..,, maybe the government is still being busy trying to change the constitution or maybe it is being dominated by old-days thinking.... now they are urging the video to be shut down,,looks like they are surrendering themselves from having more arguments or public debates on this...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The video is a bit clearer on the follow link than the one on youtube,

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/06/12/watch-chinese-japanese-fighter-jets-get-up-close-and-impersonal/

Japan's F-15 #815 and 866 intercepted a Chinese aircraft. If this is fake then all Japan need to do is tell the world its F-15 #815 and 866 never intercepted a Chinese aircraft at this close range.

It is almost impossible to withdraw/censor a video once it goes on the internet.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Ossan: "This is such obviously fabricated Chinese propaganda."

You are both the pot and the kettle; you just refuse to see it.

Chenchan: "What the heck scrambling of Chinese aircraft over East China Sea have to do with 'sex-slave documents' or Nanjing??? Normal change of theme for Japan-bashers I must admit."

Like I said in regards to Jimizo's comment, when you can't offer a valid argument, resort to calling people who don't agree with you "Japan bashers". The better question might be why you call someone a Japan basher when clearly the video shows Japan flying close to the Chinese aircraft and harassing them. But hey, I don't expect you to answer. What does it have to do with sex-slave documents and Nanjing? -- easy! In both cases Japan wants the the documents and videos to not be recognized, as was evidenced by Suge's reaction to China seeking UNESCO status for documents that prove Japan's coercion of women into sexual slavery, and today it's Suge demanding that proof of Japan's jets endangering the Chinese aircraft be removed. The commonality is the demands, you see, that Japan not be seen as needing to be held responsible for or acknowledge its actions. Now, I know there's a disconnect button in people who want to pretend Japan does no wrong, and that disconnect button has a built in "you are J-bashing!" filter as defense, but none of the people who are automatically defending Japan here are looking at the fact that these are Japanese planes, and Suge wants it off the air because it is an embarrassment and proof that his denial is wrong. Same as the the documents being recognized are proof that the government stance on sex slaves is wrong.

Not rocket science. Not even elementary school science.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

This is confusing. The original claim by Japan on Thursday, June 12, was that 2 Chinese SU-27 fighter jets flew dangerously close to 2 of Japan's military planes.

The video that Flyfalcon has graciously provided above, shows 2 Japanese fighter jets (F-15? according to some folks here?), and the video seems to be taken from some sort of cargo plane (not a fighter jet), and in addition, there is only one Chinese plane shown in the video, not two (Even as a total amateur when it comes to planes and fighter jets, all I had to do was look up "SU-27 fighter jets china" on google images, and it was CLEAR that the video was not taken from a SU-27 fighter jet).

So either China really does think we're all idiots, or this is a completely separate case of 2 Japanese fighter jets flying close to a Chinese plane ON THE SAME DAY that Japan claimed 2 Chinese fighter jets flew close to a Japanese military plane.

BTW, here is the original article from JT regarding Japan's claim which was made BEFORE China's video was released.

Chinese fighter jets fly within 30 meters of SDF planes

National Jun. 12, 2014 - 06:35AM JST ( 37 )

TOKYO - Japan accused China of flying fighter jets "dangerously" close to two of its military planes over the East China Sea Wednesday, as bilateral tensions simmer over the countries' territorial dispute.

Two Chinese SU-27 jets flew as close as 30 meters away from the Self-Defense aircraft at about 11 a.m., the defense ministry in Tokyo said.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Like I said in regards to Jimizo's comment, when you can't offer a valid argument, resort to calling people who don't agree with you "Japan bashers"

Like I said - if you can't speak about scrambling talk about 'sex-slaves' or Nanjing to change the topic as you don't have argument in your hand nor any basic knowledge about that. You can take paid upvotes form Chinese spambots but it doesn't change a fact that I described what the likes of you keep on doing in every discussion here or elsewhere where they have 'their' people.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

This is confusing. The original claim by Japan on Thursday, June 12, was that 2 Chinese SU-27 fighter jets flew >dangerously close to 2 of Japan's military planes.

The video that Flyfalcon has graciously provided above, shows 2 Japanese fighter jets (F-15? according to some folks >here?), and the video seems to be taken from some sort of cargo plane (not a fighter jet), and in addition, there is only >one Chinese plane shown in the video, not two (Even as a total amateur when it comes to planes and fighter jets, all I had >to do was look up "SU-27 fighter jets china" on google images, and it was CLEAR that the video was not taken from a >SU-27 fighter jet).

So either China really does think we're all idiots, or this is a completely separate case of 2 Japanese fighter jets flying >close to a Chinese plane ON THE SAME DAY that Japan claimed 2 Chinese fighter jets flew close to a Japanese >military plane.

I believe this video shows the close intercepts by Japan's F-15s before the current news of SU-27 intercept. However, the Chinese government just didn't make any noise about it till now. The Chinese government is basically trying to tell the Japanese government, 'pot calling the kettle black, eh?'

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I believe this video shows the close intercepts by Japan's F-15s before the current news of SU-27 intercept. However, the Chinese government just didn't make any noise about it till now. The Chinese government is basically trying to tell the Japanese government, 'pot calling the kettle black, eh?'

In other words, it's not "Wednesday" that the Chinese government is claiming but one of 400+ Chinese incursions which prompted JSDF to scramble this year.

<http://deaimuryou.matrix.jp/up/src/up12159.png

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

iWorld: You may be right. This just may be the stupidest game of "tit for tat" that both countries are playing right now.

This article also states:

Japan scrambled fighter jets against Chinese planes 415 times in the year ended in March, up 36 percent on the year...

So the video might be from one of those 415 times in the past year. The thing I don't understand then, is why would China lie about it to the world and claim that the video was taken on June 11? If China wants to tell the J-gov "Pot calling the kettle black, eh?", then why not just admit the June 11 incident, but at the same time bring up the past 415 incidents of Japanese fighters scrambling against Chinese planes?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The thing I don't understand then, is why would China lie about it to the world and claim that the video was taken on June >11?

I have not seen any official statement by the Chinese government stating those Japanese intercepts took place in June the 11th. but the matter is not when, but what is shown.

If China wants to tell the J-gov "Pot calling the kettle black, eh?",

The Chinese side only showed that Japanese jet fighters also intercepted their aircraft at very close range too, as shown in these videos which Japan demanded China to withdraw.

... but at the same time bring up the past 415 incidents of Japanese fighters scrambling against Chinese planes?

I think this information was released by the Japanese side.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Asian2014Jun. 13, 2014 - 11:43PM JST I have seen the Chinese news report on HDTV. It is clear as daylight and the evidence crystal clear. It is now China's >duty to show it to all embassies throughout the world to show who is lying through the nose

China is the country hat has along history of lying through the nose, even to it's own people and even today.

iWorldJun. 14, 2014 - 01:10AM JST I believe this video shows the close intercepts by Japan's F-15s before the current news of SU-27 intercept. However, >the Chinese government just didn't make any noise about it till now

Ask yourself if that makes any sense at all when China has been saying and doing anything to damage Japan's image since Sept 2012 usually without any "evidence" or even rational thought. Why would hey hold on to something so "juicy"?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I have not seen any official statement by the Chinese government stating those Japanese intercepts took place in June the 11th. but the matter is not when, but what is shown.

http://news.mod.gov.cn/headlines/2014-06/13/content_4515959.htm

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

China yawn so bored of them.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Does Communist Chinese Military is inciting riot on Japanese business in Mainland China with those Video?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I have not seen any official statement by the Chinese government stating those Japanese intercepts took place in June >the 11th. but the matter is not when, but what is shown. http://news.mod.gov.cn/headlines/2014-06/13/content_4515959.htm

Those photos on that link shows Japanese jet fighters intercepting very closely to Chinese aircrafts.

However, the intercepts on the photos is not the same ones shown on the video. On the photo, the jet fighter numbers are 863 and 910. On the video, the jet fighters have number 866 and 815. Two different incidents showing Japanese jet fighters flew very closely to Chinese aircrafts.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Classic state of denial, when the truth being shown some posters here immediately assume that the video is a fake or fabrication. Failing to see that even Suga couldn’t deny it so he wanted it to be taken down and continued the distortion tactic by saying it was “different” so that people could form their own ideas leading them to the wrong conclusion. Distortion tactics are being used numerous times by J officials, such as the “meaning of aggression,” or “lower number of deaths in Nanjing massacre,” or worse “Nanjing massacre never happened,” or “comfort women were prostitutes,” or “what sex slaves, other countries also did it,” or “visiting Yasukuni Shrine was for peace,” or “nationalisation of islands was to prevent disputes.” Down grading or covering up the past atrocities doesn’t change the fact that the atrocities did happen; and China wants to remind the world that the bad history should not be repeated. We can surely see the trends that J government wants to go back to being “normal” again because right now Japan being “peaceful” is not normal. It may come as a surprise to some posters that China might be telling the truth all along.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Fighter "escort" happens all the time if one country thinks another's aircraft are going where they shouldn't be. The fighters have few options once the intercept happens. They can shoot the intruder down (it's never a good idea for a pilot to single-handedly decide to enter their country into a war), they can fire shots across the nose of the intruder (and hopefully the rounds don't kill anyone on the surface when they fall), or they can provide "close escort" and force the intruder to leave the area by making small course changes and forcing the intruder to steer clear to avoid a collision.

I don't have the slightest doubt that the Japanese fighters closed to within 30 meters in a "close escort" operation. It was probably more like within 10 meters.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

However, the intercepts on the photos is not the same ones shown on the video. On the photo, the jet fighter numbers are 863 and 910. On the video, the jet fighters have number 866 and 815. Two different incidents showing Japanese jet fighters flew very closely to Chinese aircrafts.

http://news.mod.gov.cn/headlines/2014-06/12/content_4515917.htm

http://deaimuryou.matrix.jp/up/src/up12159.png

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Unfortunately, China does not allow open debate and flow of information, and thus Chinese people cannot see the truth that people throughout the world see, nor can they criticize distorted views propagated by their government. Whether China’s anti-Japan propaganda campaign will work inside China, but it certainly does not resonate internationally. In most of Asia and the rest of the world, Japan has among the highest favorability rating of any nation in public polls. Japan has taken a peaceful course over the past 70 years and moving toward the future. Unlike China in 1979, which invaded Vietnam that resulted in tens of thousands died on both sides, Japan has not once fired a gun in combat since World War II. Nevertheless, China is an important and neighboring countries are hoping to build a good relationship with it. China need to cease its dogmatic anti-Japanese propaganda campaign and work toward a future-oriented relationship. Ultimately, the international community will be swayed by China’s deeds, not by anachronistic propaganda.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

A significant part of me just wants Japan to do it. Y'know, smash China in the nose. Not so sure that is such a good idea. I try to trick myself into thinking that it is a rational thing for Japan to do. Meet China's bullying with an appropriate level of force.

But then I think, China will freak out, and play victim, and whine, and then freak out some more. So, then I think, its better to put up with China's BS, and wait until they make the first mistaken use of force.

But then I think, China's blustering and bulling and self-pity and arrogance will only get worse and worse. And putting off the inevitable conflict is, well, only putting it off. But then I realize that is self-fullfilling propecy. And then I think, no its a reasonable conclusion to draw considering history in general, and history in the specific instance.

But then I realize in the end, its really that I just want Japan to smash China in the nose, because I am right sick of China's bullS%%t.

And that isn't a very rational position to take. So I'm back to square one.

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iWorldJun: Here is the link to China's version of what happened on the Ministry of National Defense website:

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/Video/2014-06/12/content_4515962.htm

Please note that throughout the entire report, China blames Japan for lying and trying to deceive the world, and actually goes on to refer to Japan as the "Villain". It's one thing to have a news outlet make such accusations, but tell me what country in the world would have their Ministry of National Defense make such claims on an internet website?! How crude is that? They might as well take to Twitter! I think that publishing such accusations directly on a government website really reflects how questionable their policies are. At any rate, these childish games on BOTH sides of the fence are a waste of time. IMHO, Japan should just clam-up and let China continue to act foolish.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Unlike U.S., which spent much of its history expanding, China’s potential for territorial growth is severely limited by geography. To the west it faces the barren Tibetan plateau and Gobi Desert. To the south the Himalayan mountains present an imposing barrier to the Indian Subcontinent. To the north vast and largely empty grasslands known as the Steppes provide a buffer with Russia. And to the east stretches the world’s largest ocean. So aside from the hapless Vietnamese who share the southern coastal plain and China’s historical claim to Taiwan, there isn’t much opportunity for wars of conquest on China’s periphery. Ironically, China’s disputes with neighbors over the disposition of minor islands and reefs underscores how little real potential China has for growing its territory the way other powers have.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Where is Japan's footage? What no camera? Japan needs a new defense minister.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I wish Japan and China will finally settle their differences and make an agreement with one another.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Civilized nation use diplomacy childish ones just provide edited propaganda.

Communist China is using it's Three-Warfare strategies and some folks are falling for it.

Or should I say their supporters are using it as normal.

TahoochiJun. 14, 2014 - 05:46AM JST

Well said!!!!!

JimizoJun. 13, 2014 - 09:49PM JST No hatred of Japan here. I've lived happily here for 15 years. It may shock you to know that other posters here are also aware of the propaganda tactics of 'Communist'.

I'm glad to hear that you are happy to be here for 15 years, but that doesn't mean someone else shares your view. Some folks here will cry foul at a drop of a hat and this time is just another case. And some folks have been crying foul since their much loved yet completely useless DPJ got the royal boot.

JimizoJun. 13, 2014 - 09:49PM JST We don't need to be made aware of this. Your claims to know the 'truth' about this incident are based on precisely what?

Well, I'm glad you asked....

Was born in a Communist nation and spent my early years there. Saw first hand how propaganda was manipulated and used by the Communist. Found out that what I had heard and was told was propaganda after my family arrived in the States and was able to see the truth firsthand.

Next, Served in the US Navy and again saw firsthand how propaganda was used by the Soviets/Communist. Served on a ballistic Missile Boat during the cold war and saw my fair share of Communist hype and propaganda and let me tell you this is no different.

If you ever saw firsthand the tactics Communist use to make a point or to spin a point you too would take their evidence with a pinch of salt.

Same tactic as it was done all those years ago.

Give you some information you can look up to help out...

610 Office, Lei Feng, three warfare strategy

http://thediplomat.com/2013/10/chinas-constant-warfare/

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/05/winning-without-fighting-chinese-legal-warfare

You can believe it or you can believe what you are told by the Communist, it's up to you.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

JoeBigs, your experience in a Communist nation is probably not more than mine. I was born in a free country, spent many years in two communist countries, and lived in three other free countries, so I can definitely say that I know a lot about communism than you and the next guy. What I tried to say in my previous post was that some posters were too biased against China even though China had presented valid evidence and told the truth. We have been bombarded with biased news day in and day out without thinking outside the box. I’ve followed so many news sources every day, so I certainly can tell which one is propaganda and which one is biased news. What if China is right and it’s Japan that has been lying and provoking China all along? Mark my word that in the next decade or so you will think differently about China and China will turn out to be the most admired country in the world.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It doesn't matter if china was in Japans airspace. What was that aircraft doing there in the first place?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

flowers Jun. 14, 2014 - 07:24AM JST What I ried to say in my previous post was that some posters were too biased against China even though China had presented valid evidence and told the truth.

What is the valid evidence from your viewpoint? I didn’t see what China is claiming. The SDF planes kept their distance.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Sfjp330, from my view point the existence of the video that shows two J fighter jets sandwiched a Chinese patrol plane is a valid evidence to me. China is claiming that Japan did the same thing to China but put all the blame on China. And, I wonder who told you that the SDF planes kept their distance. Here is what I got from the China side: “For some time, Japan has engaged in close-up tailing, monitoring and interfering with Chinese vessels and aircraft, risking the safety of the vessels and aircraft,” Colonel Geng said in a statement posted on the ministry’s website. Japan’s behavior, he said, had “malign intentions and totally exposed its hypocrisy and two-facedness in relations with China.” The Chinese defense ministry, however, asserted that Japan was responsible for that encounter and another dangerously close one. On Tuesday morning, it said, two Japanese F-15 jets came as close as 100 feet to a Chinese Tupolev Tu-154 medium-range patrol plane, “seriously affecting the Chinese plane’s flying safety.”

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@JoeBigs - Great links, thanks.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

flowersJun. 14, 2014 - 08:17AM JST Sfjp330, from my view point the existence of the video that shows two J fighter jets sandwiched a Chinese patrol plane is a valid evidence to me. China is claiming that Japan did the same thing to China but put all the blame on China.

First, and perhaps most obvious, the ADIZ announcement by China has not yet introduced more caution by either party. Rather it has instigated greater interaction between Chinese and Japanese air forces in their overlapping ADIZs. The ADIZ has made China the number one air defense concern for Japan. For most of the postwar period, it was the air threat from the former Soviet Union that was the focal point of Japan’s defenses. It is still too early to dub this new situation in the East China Sea as a Japan-China “cold war.” Yet some contrast between Japan’s interactions to the north with the Soviets and today with China is helpful. At the height of Japan-Soviet Cold War military contact in the 80s, the Japanese and Soviet air forces were constantly interacting in the airspace off of Hokkaido. China and Japan have yet to reach that level of intensity, but the number of interactions has jumped significantly. But it is not simply scrambles that matter. Two other practices of the Cold War era are perhaps equally telling about dangers in the East China Sea. First, Japan and the former Soviet Union (and today Russia) developed a regular mechanism for monitoring their militaries’ interactions, and took steps to minimize the likelihood of mistakes and accidents by ensuring the Russia and Japan knew exactly what their pilots were doing in the skies. China and Japan do not have the benefit of that conversation, and in fact, China claims it is simply not interested in beginning one. Like the Soviets of old, China is sending more and more lethal aircraft to patrol the East China Sea. Despite the ominous announcement that China would police its ADIZ scrupulously, there is still little information on the rules of engagement for Chinese fighter jets when confronting intruders.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Fadamor Jun. 14, 2014 - 12:11AM JST

Youtube link was only one segment from other JT thread. It is not good quality. According Kazuaki Shimazaki post, there are two segments from the following link. It has better quality. I do not know whether it is 30 feet or 100 feet . Judge with your natural instinct about the distance and speed.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/06/12/watch-chinese-japanese-fighter-jets-get-up-close-and-impersonal

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Japan can't run away this time. If this is fake, then China is really stupid! If this is real then China should submit this to UNESCO and let Japan jump into a fit again! People who compare this to Soviet times are really silly. Technology has advanced so much and shots so clear that experts will know a fake and a genuine one instantly. Japan thought that the world will believe their lie until China showed the video and now the only way out for them is to claim that it is a fake. Comfort women is fake. Nanjing is fake and that the world is round is fake. The apple that fell onNewton's head is also fake!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

'We don't need to be made aware of this. Your claims to know the 'truth' about this incident are based on precisely what?

Well, I'm glad you asked....

Was born in a Communist nation and spent my early years there. Saw first hand how propaganda was manipulated and used by the Communist. Found out that what I had heard and was told was propaganda after my family arrived in the States and was able to see the truth firsthand.'

You were born in a Communist country and that enables you to know the 'truth' about an incident between fighter planes many decades later. Got it.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

When I was in the Navy I had the pleasure of seeing a pair of F-14 Tomcats (19m long) fly within 30 meters of our Sub and they were 20 meters off the surface.

One was to our port and the other to the starboard of our sail and let me tell you, I didn't need my binoculars to see the pilots waving at us.

Now some reference info, the F-15 is 19 meters long same as the F-14. On most subs the sail is located just aft of the torpedo room and over the operations compartment. On US boats it's the big thingy sticking out of the water where the fairwater planes are housed. It is also called the conning tower.

Now as for the Communist tactics.

The tactics being used by Communist China are the same tactics Communist have used since Stalin cut out his enemies from his photos.

Just because Communist China has embraced wealth doesn't mean that they have left their Communist roots behind. They are still Communist to the core and Document Number 9 proves this. So they will do what Communist have always done, manipulate the truth to make themselves look like victims.

In this case they maneuvered their plane into the right position and started filming then maneuvered again and start filming again. But, some people just don't want to get it because they have issues with Japan or consider themselves Socialist and think the Communist are their allies.

If you like to laugh while you learn some truths then you will like China Uncensored. Chris Chappell is very funny.

https://www.youtube.com/show/chinauncensored

Asian2014Jun. 14, 2014 - 11:28AM JST Japan can't run away this time. If this is fake, then China is really stupid!

This isn't faked, it's been edited by the Communist, big difference.

FlyfalconJun. 14, 2014 - 11:18AM JST I do not know whether it is 30 feet or 100 feet . Judge with your natural instinct about the distance and speed.

Just a slight correction, it was meters and not feet. BTW, for those that don't know, an F-15 is 19 meters long and if it were within 30 meters you wouldn't have to zoom in to see it clearly.

JimizoJun. 14, 2014 - 11:30AM JST You were born in a Communist country and that enables you to know the 'truth' about an incident between fighter planes many decades later. Got it.

No, it enables me to tell from experience how Communist regimes handle propaganda.

You seems to have skipped passed my military experience, but I won't hold that against you. For me it's all par for the course when dealing with this issue.

flowersJun. 14, 2014 - 07:24AM JST JoeBigs, your experience in a Communist nation is probably not more than mine.

So, you received your monthly rations, saw your parents being harassed, go to school and be told not to trust your family because you can only trust was the state?

Hey, how did you like the rationed toilet paper? Did use the black-market that was run by the very Communist officials who were in charge of the distribution?

Oh those fun loving days of being watched and living life paranoid because you might be dragged off for no reason at all. Oh wait that's right, they had their reasons. They had/have to make sure people live/lived in fear.

Yeah, we had fun didn't we!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

BigsJoe

I am expert in Mathematics and very good in Aero nautical and Aero dyamics engeering. Not from Navy shooting with the loose cannon to the air. We are using metric system in Eu. I am no longer in kindergarten too.

I have just replied Fadamor post of Jun. 14, 2014 - 12:11AM JST. If you want to educate someone, he or she should follow your lecture.

Pls do not shoot the messenger! I am not a fan of Communist China however I like eating Chinese food.

FadamorJun. 14, 2014 - 12:11AM JST

@FPSRussia

Enjoy the link!

htttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS1vw8Svk0Q

If that's the whole video, then the planes weren't within 30 feet of the Chinese plane. 100 feet maybe, but not 30.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Classic state of denial, when the truth being shown some posters here immediately assume that the video is a fake or fabrication.

I did try to give the benefit of the doubt to China, Flower. Unfortunately, they really shot their foot with the video by letting us see a scaling cue (the plane's wingtip), which shows that the Japanese plane is much more than 30m off. Undoubtedly, they'd try and reinforce by using other photos and other videos now, but one error is enough to taint the whole pile.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

FlyfalconJun. 14, 2014 - 01:07PM JST Pls do not shoot the messenger! I am not a fan of Communist China however I like eating Chinese food.

My BTW wasn't for you, I had meant for that to be a different sentence but forgot to hit enter. I didn't mean any offense for that I apologize.

:)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If that's the whole video, then the planes weren't within 30 feet of the Chinese plane. 100 feet maybe, but not 30.

30 meters not feet!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Chinese people are good friend.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

1.

denied Beijing’s claims that its Self-Defense Force planes came “dangerously close” to Chinese aircraft 2. demanding China takes down the footage allegedly showing the incident.

So which is it, Japan? Make up your mind!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Article is wrong. The terrible title. Suga has not said to China that withdraw the video. He just said to China that withdraw the wrong words.

If you want proof, you can drop image from the website of China, let's take a look at the information of the data. Date they were saved after processing in PhotoShop CS5 seems to have been May 12.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

randomenigmaJun. 14, 2014 - 10:55PM JST denied Beijing’s claims that its Self-Defense Force planes came “dangerously close” to Chinese aircraft 2. demanding China takes down the footage allegedly showing the incident. So which is it, Japan? Make up your mind!

Japan's stance is as clear as day if you stand back and read it without editing it to try and make your point.

Let me help you out.

Japan on Friday denied Beijing’s claims that its Self-Defense Force planes came “dangerously close” to Chinese aircraft in an incident over the East China Sea on Wednesday, demanding China takes down the footage allegedly showing the incident.

Now, you can see what Japan is saying, editing things to make your point is as bad as editing a film to make your point..

hkitagawaJun. 14, 2014 - 08:31PM JST Chinese people are good friend.

No arguments there, but the Communist Party that rules over China is not friendly or honest.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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