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Japan seeks 1st aircraft carrier to deploy stealth fighters

93 Comments
By Mari Yamaguchi

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Here we go...

The next phase in Japan re arming.

I don’t like this side of humanity, but you cannot be weak and dependant on others on this planet.

21 ( +25 / -4 )

Stealth fighters for DEFENSE, right? Lol You only need stealth fighters if you are flying over territory that is not yours, Japan. Passed up the unarmed spy planes, huh? Why do you need armed stealth fighters? Change the Constitution to allow Japan to attack other countries. Go ahead. Most young Japanese are not patriotic, and not interested joining the military. Oh! But you've made it easier for foreigners to work in Japan. What's next, allow them in the Japanese military? Promise them citizenship if they join? I see where this is going.

-11 ( +13 / -24 )

Stealth fighters for DEFENSE, right? Lol You only need stealth fighters if you are flying over territory that is not yours, Japan. Passed up the unarmed spy planes, huh? 

Stealth is a valuable asset in modern air combat as it makes it nearly impossible for enemy fighters and ground-based AAMs to get a weapons quality lock on with Beyond Visual Range missiles that use.... guess what, Radar.

”Dogfights” are no longer the “He’s got my six! I’m switching to guns!” dramatic close range encounters as seen in Topgun. In fact, by the time of the Vietnam War, close range air combat was considered obsolete, and several versions of the F4 and F14 didn’t include guns. Modern air combat is about “seeing” your enemy first with radar and sensors, locking on a missile and firing from distances as far as 100km+. Of course, air superiority is also important, which is why militaries still widely incorporate highly agile fighters, but the advancement of missile technology has lessened the need for ultra-fast interceptors like the F4 or Mig-21. Yes, fighter jets flew faster in the 60s than they do now.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

All countries should have a strong defensive military, that stays within their borders AND an Article 9 (renouncing using war as a way to settle disputes). Get the US out of Japan. No country needs to have bases in another country. Japan does NOT need stealth fighters or an aircraft carrier for defense, and it isn't a sign of weakness if Japan decides to not purchase such war material.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@thepersoniamnow

The next phase in Japan re arming.

I don't think Japan's neighbors really care, with it being so easy to kill with supersonic antiship missiles or torpedoes.

Carriers have the worst dollar value, but if Abe san wants to waste Japan's money on a vanity project, so be it.

-10 ( +7 / -17 )

Samit Basu, the war already lost even before it starts.

-17 ( +2 / -19 )

GANBARE NIPPON !!. And for the crybabies, stop drama!!... Lol!!!..

10 ( +14 / -4 )

If war is so easy and 100 stealth fighters can be decisive in controlling the Pacific , then Japan could soon occupy other countries, instead of being occupied.

-18 ( +3 / -21 )

Changing the constitution and rearming Japan is necessary to normalize diplomatic relations with the neighboring countries. The neighboring countries will be more careful about their words and attitudes to us.

10 ( +17 / -7 )

Schopenhauer, neighbours will only be careful about their words and attitudes when Japan will be careful about her words and attitudes.

-15 ( +4 / -19 )

It's just a another baby step toward becoming a normal country, having rights to defend itself.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

@Akie

A carrier force requires a 150 km radius no fly zone / no submarine zone enforcement around the carrier in order to be able to survive in war zones. The US navy does this via AWAC jets and ASW aircraft launched from its super carriers.

But Izumo is incapable of launching AWACs and ASWs, it must operate under a constant protection of AWAC and ASW jets launched from land bases near by if it were to survive in a combat zone.

There is going to be gaps not covered by land-based aircraft, and that's when the Izumo with 3 billion dollars worth of military equipment onboard goes down under water.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

There is no way that Japan will attack South Korea, because North Korea will be involved. There is no way that Japan will attack China, because Chinese tourists will stop visiting. There is no way that Japan will attack Russia, because the two Islands will be not returned. There is no way that Japan will attack Australia, because it is too far away.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

Wasn't that said before already (at least I did in a previous post).

They are getting their aircraft carrier ...... which in the sense of defense makes no sense.

Aircraft carriers are designed to operate in areas far away from their homebase.

So, what in the hell are "they" thinking? What are "their" plans?

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

We live in uncertain times. I guess is normal to arm up the military. Most of Japan citizens are pacifist anyway,so makes no difference. We stay away from conflicts,but should still have the capability to strike back hard if someone seek a fight. Japan only seek what their other powerful neighbors already has anyway.(China and USA). Besides,we don't have 2 most important things that others countries has. Nukes missiles or nuclear submarine! Plus we only have a missile defense system and no offensive attack missiles. So others should stop complaining that we shouldn't arm up.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

They are getting their aircraft carrier ...... which in the sense of defense makes no sense.

Aircraft carriers are designed to operate in areas far away from their homebase.

Look at a map. Japan is an archipelago of islands that stretches over 3000km. Would you prefer missile batteries and infantry/marine garrisons stationed on Japan’s outlying remote islands?

13 ( +15 / -2 )

@kentarogaijin

GANBARE NIPPON !!. And for the crybabies, stop drama!!... Lol!!!..

Your arguments are so persuasive and backed by reason and evidence.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

@klausdorth

Exactly. But Japan has its Navy in African ports...

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

FABULOUS !! Now America can withdraw a carrier group. Japan is for Japanese and they should defend themselves. If they get scared of something they can borrow it from their economic ally China. Or they can threaten Australia with tourism bans.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

I don’t like this side of humanity, but you cannot be weak and dependant on others on this planet.

I feel much the same way....

Oh! But you've made it easier for foreigners to work in Japan. What's next, allow them in the Japanese military? 

You know such a position is not without precedent. The U.K allows Commonwealth citizens from some countries to serve in the British military and vice versa.

Maybe Japan and South Korea should have a military exchange program ;)

All countries should have a strong defensive military, that stays within their borders AND an Article 9 (renouncing using war as a way to settle disputes). Get the US out of Japan. No country needs to have bases in another country. Japan does NOT need stealth fighters or an aircraft carrier for defense, and it isn't a sign of weakness if Japan decides to not purchase such war material.

That really doesn't make any sense. You say you want a defensive military and an Article 9. Then get the U.S out of Japan. So Japan presumably is now on its own. Straight away that is a massive problem for Japan. Now get the stealth fighters out, so now Japan is not only on its own, it also has outdated 4th generation aircraft only, no aircraft carrier, so now its going to rely solely on aircraft taking off from runways in Japan and ships to defeat an invader.

Everything you just said achieves the exact opposite of the first part of the paragraph - a strong defensive military. Relying on 4th generation aircraft from the few airstrips in Japan and a navy to defeat an invader that can project air power via carriers and superior air power at that combined with what is likely to be superior ship numbers means the game is over before it even started.

Not only that, but when it comes to protecting Japans island territories, how do you propose to achieve that by letting an opponent have complete domination of the skies?

Also "having a defensive military while solving disputes in a peaceful manner" is the default way in which 99% of governments actually operate. Very few seek to start a war at the first sign of an argument in today's world. Getting around the table is the first step and only when every other step in between, of which there are many, including economic retaliation etc, has been exhausted, do governments resort to conflict.

That is the usual pattern.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

The Japanese military is losing recruits and is struggling to get more recruits. 

Probably a good excuse to look into unmanned gear as much as possible in Japans case. Certainly if it becomes a question of deploying large quantities of offensive or defensive military assets, this is Japans best option given the lack of manpower.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

BeerDwliveryGuy

you need to check your facts...

In fact, by the time of the Vietnam War, close range air combat was considered obsolete, and several versions of the F4 and F14 didn’t include guns.

Topgun was set up because the US was losing a lot of planes in Vietnam. Missiles were not always working and the aircraft with no guns were sitting ducks when the enemy got close in.

Topgun was was filmed/set in the 1980’s... so that also throws your time line out.

Today however, stealth is good for offense and defense. If they can’t see you, you have first shot(s), first kill(s) capability against both air and ground targets and STILL remain undetected, you pretty much gain complete air superiority in the first 12 hours of the war... then the rest is history.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Matt Hartwell

Now get the stealth fighters out, so now Japan is not only on its own, it also has outdated 4th generation aircraft only, no aircraft carrier, so now its going to rely solely on aircraft taking off from runways in Japan and ships to defeat an invader.

Everything you just said achieves the exact opposite of the first part of the paragraph - a strong defensive military. Relying on 4th generation aircraft from the few airstrips in Japan and a navy to defeat an invader that can project air power via carriers and superior air power at that combined with what is likely to be superior ship numbers means the game is over before it even started.

1) Japan is not 'alone' if Japan has allies. The US military does not need to be in Japan to be an ally. 2) Updating Japan's airforce does not necessarily mean they need STEALTH fighters. 3) If every country had an Article 9 and didn't have war material such as aircraft carriers, Japan wouldn't have to worry about attacks from foreign aircraft carriers.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

The best defense is to have the best offense capability.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

@ 2 Year Old

Yes, I am aware of that, which is why I mentioned that air superiority is still necessity in air combat. Yes, Topgun was developed to because of the poor reliability of missiles at the time, and the premature air combat concept of reliance on missiles.

However, Topgun aviators are a select few, the “special forces” of combat aviation. Assuming that all air combat is on the level of Topgun would be like assuming that all ground warfare is on the level of SEALS and Delta.

I understand the BVR/close range combat aspects and I agree that both are necessary. Ground forces also have long range weapons, but also they train their soldiers in hand to hand combat for when need should come.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

You have to admit that part of it is the cool factor of having a stealth fighter. Before you know it, the stealth will be a part of air shows as the main attraction and much money will be made.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

About time.

Keeping in mind that Japan hasn't had any aircraft carriers for near 80 years, it's going to take a lot of effort to get pilots up to scratch (perhaps the USN can assist), not to mention a massive refit to get an Izumo class vessel up to par. No, helicopter carriers are NOT the same thing. If anyone is going to assert otherwise, it's obvious they have no idea about how naval warfare works.

As for the whole "hurr durr, Japan is going to start another war" crowd, may I ask "with who?". Japan is surrounded by countries that have recently made public military threats, and has massive firepower (including nuclear weapons), it's common sense that Japan should bolster it's own forces to a) deter aggression, and b) be capable of meeting it at a realistic level if hostilities do escalate.

Probably a good excuse to look into unmanned gear as much as possible in Japans case.

A lot of weaponry is already automatic to an extent, but you can't have a functioning navy without adequately trained personnel.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

years since world war 2 years passed...77 years.and we have Japanese govt going for it again....aircraft carriers are not for defense. ....things will go bad to worse in no time.so much drama for ww2 vicitims.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

@reformedbasher

not to mention a massive refit to get an Izumo class vessel up to par. No, helicopter carriers are NOT the same thing.

I agree with most everything else you said except this. From what I've read, the Izumo was built from the start with the F35 in mind, which is why there was so much controversy surrounding its construction. All things considered, it doesn't really need that much work to upgrade it to a fully functioning VTOL/STOL carrier aside from strengthening the deck to withstand the heat of the F35 engines.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

years since world war 2 years passed...77 years.and we have Japanese govt going for it again....aircraft carriers are not for defense. ....things will go bad to worse in no time.so much drama for ww2 vicitims.

What indication has Japan given that they would start another war? None. Where do these conclusions come from?

15 ( +15 / -0 )

Japan is rearming, partly in tandem with US war plans against China and partly in order to assert its own independent imperialist interests.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/11/10/mili-n10.html

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

This helicopter carriers are small with limited range and payload. China is building real aircraft carriers, has a much better 5th generation plane.

The F35 is a lemon, big mistake to purchase so many of them. Would be better to get the F22, if they refuse to sell, make our own or team up with the British which already invited Japan to join their program.

Its funny when even this small and modest upgrades scare Koreans especially, enough to complain about a resurgent Japan ready to attack and colognize them again.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

All 18 year old Japanese have to serve in the army for 2 years. After 20, 4 weeks a year until 60. We also need about 20 overseas bases ringing China and Russia. And we need to threaten our neighbors by having a few nuclear bomb tests.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

The Low Observable Paint on the UK's new F-35s is so bad, it has to be repaired after every flight. Even Lockheed in a rare admission acknowledge the fault. Just takes a scratch to it makes its radar profile appear like a 747!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Most of Japan citizens are pacifist anyway,so makes no difference.

Most of Japan's citizens are apathetic to anything their government does because they have no ability to influence it anyway.

We stay away from conflicts,but should still have the capability to strike back hard if someone seek a fight.

Good! So you don't need an offensive military because right now you have a massive defensive military along with the US who can strike anywhere, anytime, protecting you (and their interests).

Japan only seek what their other powerful neighbors already has anyway.(China and USA). Besides,we don't have 2 most important things that others countries has. Nukes missiles or nuclear submarine!

I thought Japan was a peace-loving nation? Why the need for WMD's? Do you not see the hypocrisy?

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

As for the whole "hurr durr, Japan is going to start another war" crowd, may I ask "with who?".

The idea is to learn from history so we do not repeat it again. It's a shame for the rest of us that not all seem to get it!

Japan doesn't have to start a war with neighbors to cause destabilization in the area with the belligerence that historically follows Japan militarizing. The mindset has not changed since Japan's last forays into militarism. Are you that easily duped by 'samurai spirit' and 'kawaii culture'?

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

LHD is NO AIRCRAFT cCARRIER!  It wont gain any respect from neighbours!

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Japan could probably do very well with unmanned fighters / drones. But in the meantime Japan has to become more independent of the USA foreign policy and needs to step up and become a world power. Japan's peaceful rise should alarm nobody.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Confucianism is common value in Northeast Asia. It emphasizes personal and governmental morality, correctness of social relationships, justice and sincerity. It never promotes wars and violence, and rejects biases and immorality. Japan used to be an exemplary Confucius country, but not anymore since 150 years ago.

Japan is still as heavily influenced by Confucianism as it ever was, even if it has somewhat gone off as of recent. China has diverged even more though. Japan as a society still retains a lot of its soul and culture, China unfortunately had it's soul and culture ripped out by Mao during the Cultural Revolution, and is now trying to rebuild on an empty foundation.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

"Would be better to get the F22, if they refuse to sell, make our own or team up with the British which already invited Japan to join their program."

The US will not sell them the F22, only the scraps that have been scrubbed (F35) for them to copy/improve. Thats the whole intention. Basically the JSDF is trying to copy the MEU concept, a mini version of it. As long as they dont make war against the US again, I could care less. The Chinese and Japanese will be playing games forever, never an intention to make peace, allot of it whipped up by Ishihara years ago. Been there seen that.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@extanker

Without knowing the specifics of the construction, and knowing the new requirements, it's hard to comment on this aspect, but I know what you mean. I'd be interested in how hangar space/elevators/flight deck would change if this goes through. Also just how many F35Bs would be deployed. At the moment it only carries a complement of 14 helicopters which isn't that many, so if Japan is buying a total of 99 F35s, I'd assume more than 1 carrier would be coming our way. Good. One basket is too scary for that many eggs, and power projection will be increased significantly. I’ll guess not all F35Bs would be carrier based either. Apart from having some spare for maintenance, why not utilise some of the remoter islands and build airstrips/facilities on them? As they’re STOVL, they’re perfect for island hopping. Need to have hardened shelters, good radar location and the strips primed for destruction to deny use by hostiles if they’re taken over.

As they are, a large number of stealthy aircraft will give the PLAN something extra to consider if things stayed conventional. I sure as heck hope things never get nasty, as I'm sure you and anybody else with a brain does too.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

From what I have heard the majority of the in-coming F35s will be the land-based A version. Goes without saying, though.

The F35B carrier version is not designed for long-range stealth bombing; that sounds pretty defensive to me, for a land of islands. The J Diet resolution yesterday specified that the carrier version F35Bs would not be permanently deployed on the Izumo, only when/as necessary.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

 I want Japan and China to become one nation, one people, one culture, one that no one can divide. Is that anti Japan ?

One only has to look at East Turkmenistan, Inner Mongolia, Tibet and Hong Kong to see that what you are implying is the slow extermination of Japanese culture and ethnicity. You claim Japanese and Chinese culture are the same because “2000 years ago?” Indeed, Japan did inherit much culture from China, as did the west. Do you claim Italy and the US to be the same culture as China because of noodles and guns? Japan also had its indigenous peoples; the Jomon and Ainu, whom fossil records show are definitely not from China, but from the Eurasian, Inuit, and South Pacific Islands regions.

By your logic, the US should then capitulate to Great Britain, France, the Netherlands, Mexico and Spain because those countries originally founded the Americas. China would have even less claim as it never “claimed” or “discovered” Japan but has recognized it as a sovereign nation for as long as written records exist.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

It's like just started carrying nightstick to protect yourself when confronting a gang of thugs fully armed with guns/machine guns/rocket launcher

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

First of all, congratulations to the Japanese Navy on their new carrier. Hope they build more such ships and build F-35s under license. 

It's ironic how many here are opposed to Article 9 modification and new weapons procurement instead of viewing it as an opportunity to get the U.S. military out of mainland Japan and Okinawa.  That's probably what PM Abe is working toward.

By modifying the 2nd paragraph restriction, Japan can build up their military forces' capabilities without restriction, expand their military beyond coastal defense and take the lead and responsibility on regional defense instead of relying on the U.S. military.  Therefore the U.S. military footprint can be reduced and eventually withdrawn. 

Isn't that what you all want? Or do you really want a continuation of the status quo? You can't have it both ways.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

 I want Japan and China to become one nation, one people, one culture, one that no one can divide. Is that anti Japan ?

What about political ideology and government? Currently Japan's and China's political ideology are at conflict. If Japan and China are to become one nation, one people, one culture, will Japan be forced to adopt China's political ideology or is China willing to give up its government and adopt Japan's Constitution? 

Political ideology differences is the major stumbling block to any kind of unification.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Considering Japan was the first nation to actually test aircraft carriers and conduct the first flight off of a warship in the early 20th Century I'm glad to see that they will be re-joining the list of carrier nations. Although I cant help but wonder if it would be cheaper in the long run to build a new carrier from scratch. To get the Izumo up to sepc would likely result in the ship being out of commission for years, as she will need new technology, hangers, navigation control, decks, equipment and crew space to be able to function as a true carrier. Also as has been mentioned Japan has not has active carrier pilots for almost 80 years so training will be vital. Considering its taken the UK almost 10 years to gets it new super carriers up to operational capability and to train their crews, I cant see Japan having an operational carrier mission ready much before 2030.  

On an additional, It always astounds that people still seem to be under the impression or belief that Japan somehow wants to re start WW2 and engage in hostile conquest of territory and empire building! I'm sorry but if you believe that this is the so called 'secret agenda and goal' of modern Japan then you need to have your head examined.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

So an ex axis of evil is rearming? Funny how history continues to be lost on so many supporters on here. Well seeing as it's happening, the countries invaded during the war should demand for reparations immediately. Looks like Japan's got cash to spare.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

1) Japan is not 'alone' if Japan has allies. The US military does not need to be in Japan to be an ally. 

Have you seen the size of the North Pacific Ocean? How long do you think it takes for a carrier group to travel from the U.S West Coast to Japan? That is a vast distance. Several days? a week or so?. The damage is done by then. Might as well wave the white flag.

2) Updating Japan's airforce does not necessarily mean they need STEALTH fighters.

Sure, but given the upfront costs are not a lot different to most 4/4.5 aircraft then why wouldn't you? If you didn't want to buy the F35 then you should probably just go straight to the latest Gripen if value for money is the primary consideration. Its an excellent aircraft, but its no match for the latest Chinese planes or Russian for that matter, although Russia is pairing back its ambitions there.

3) If every country had an Article 9 and didn't have war material such as aircraft carriers, Japan wouldn't have to worry about attacks from foreign aircraft carriers.

Perhaps, but Japan has to live in the world as it is, not how it could be. And I see absolutely zero signs that major powers are reversing course unfortunately.

This helicopter carriers are small with limited range and payload. China is building real aircraft carriers, has a much better 5th generation plane.

China is building real carriers no doubt, but their 5th generation plane has engine problems and I would say is not as far down the path as the U.S. There have already been 300+ F35's produced. They are going through testing and now are starting to enter active service on a small scale. Israel, the U.S.

Is Japan going to buy a 5th gen aircraft from China and Russia and run the risk of instant remote sabotage? No.

So its kind of a mute point what China has and you are presuming its the only threat going forward. Not necessarily true.

The F35 is a lemon, big mistake to purchase so many of them. Would be better to get the F22, if they refuse to sell, make our own or team up with the British which already invited Japan to join their program.

If Britain and Japan were to sign a formal partnership tomorrow, 100 fighters would be at least 15 years away, if not longer. Even if Japan was to order these planes now from U.S, Japan is still looking at years to get all those F35's. In other words, the delay is bad enough as it is and there is absolutely zero guarantee that a Brit/Japan partnership could even produce a decent alternative. None at all. It would be a huge risk.

Its funny when even this small and modest upgrades scare Koreans especially, enough to complain about a resurgent Japan ready to attack and colognize them again.

Would be interested to read an article. Got a link for me? Of course Japan will never attack Korea, whats the point? They could never control it.

A lot of weaponry is already automatic to an extent, but you can't have a functioning navy without adequately trained personnel.

All 18 year old Japanese have to serve in the army for 2 years. After 20, 4 weeks a year until 60. We also need about 20 overseas bases ringing China and Russia. And we need to threaten our neighbors by having a few nuclear bomb tests.

I've advocated for 12 months of compulsory national service (not necessarily military) either taken as 1 year, 6/6 months or 3/3/3/3 months for young Australians. Military/Community/Environmental. I think its a great idea but then I would since I am unlikely to have to do it lol. 20 bases :o Japan cannot afford anything remotely like that and is non-nuclear. I don't really see that changing. Unless neighbours really get nasty.

The US will not sell them the F22

They wont sell them and even more relevant, there is no production line. Its all been completely dismantled for years. The U.S itself is struggling for parts to maintain the planes they have.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

So an ex axis of evil is rearming? Funny how history continues to be lost on so many supporters on here. Well seeing as it's happening, the countries invaded during the war should demand for reparations immediately. Looks like Japan's got cash to spare.

I suggest you consider your own words there. Lets look at your so called Axis of evil in 2018. Germany has submarines, a modern air force, navy and credible army with special forces and is a very capable and dangerous foe with first strike capability and is included under the nuclear umbrella scheme. Next Italy has its own carrier fleet and pretty efficient air arm with a sizable regular navy and submarines that allow it to conduct operations in the Mediterranean with ease.  Both nations were hostile aggressors and committed atrocities and yet, you would seemingly ignore their military build up and forgive them for having large modern armed forces but are unhappy about Japan even considering having a carrier? 

So before you start throwing around ridiculous accusations that have no grounds in the modern world, actually do some research on what your saying!

9 ( +10 / -1 )

What indication has Japan given that they would start another war? None. Where do these conclusions come from?

The Japanese government did support the 2003 Iraq invasion, so its commitment to the territorial integrity of sovereign states in Asia (yes, Iraq is in the Asian continent) is nebulous.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Dude, half the world supported that war, and about a dozen nations committed troops to the effort. Even such peace loving liberal paradises like Canada and Sweden.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Japan is surrounded by hateful/vengeful neighbors besides Taiwan. (China, Koreas still salty about WW2 and Japan historically never capitulating to China and having its own unique culture loved and appreciated by the world over and Russia who really never got over getting defeated and losing territory to Japan in 1901.) Good on Japan to begin building some defensive and potentially offensive capabilities. Japan has shown historically they can come together time and time again to face challenges and overcome them.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

So before you start throwing around ridiculous accusations that have no grounds in the modern world, actually do some research on what your saying!

Two wrongs have never made a right. The peace constitution was and still is a marvel to behold. Under the hands of the right wingers unfortunately Japan's headed for destruction.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Joyriding, I would be interested to see the evidence for Japan inventing the aircraft carrier, as far as I am aware HMS Furious was the first operational aircraft carrier.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

as far as I am aware HMS Furious was the first operational aircraft carrier.

Ah. but she was a battlercruiser until conversion in 1925

2 ( +3 / -1 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_seaplane_carrier_Wakamiya

As requested!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

This carrier looks similar to the French aircraft carriers Egypt acquired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ-pl2L74VE

0 ( +0 / -0 )

How do we know this carrier won't end up supporting some US led military expedition far from the Pacific that has scant support of the Japanese public?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

The Izumo helicopter carrier will be refurbished for sporadic use of aircraft carriers. It is not a threat to any country. And it is compatible with Article 9. Because its technical capabilities can only be oriented to defense.

To start with you will only have the maximum capacity of 5 or 6 F-35B combat fighters. 3 or 4 on deck and 2 on hangars. Because according to the law there must be at least 2 helicopters, for SAR services and another helicopter for transporting goods and food.

In addition, the operational range of an F-35B for airspace surveillance missions close to the ship is 150 km around it.

Without taking into account that you need coverage of reconnaissance planes and AWACS type probes that can only operate from ground airstrips. What you need not move away from the Japanese coast. The offensive capacity of this ship is very low.

The boat most similar to the characteristics of the reformed Izumo is the aircraft carrier Cavour (C 550) of the Italian navy. It is the only ship in the world that could be compared by its size and deck distribution. Which is also oriented only for the defense of Italy.

The only countries operating defence-oriented aircraft carriers are Italy and Spain. Japan will soon be included in this list.

While the United States, Russia, China, India, France and Great Britain. They will be the only aircraft carrier operators with truly offensive capability worldwide.

And I remember that the carrier configuration will only be used when it is exclusively necessary. The F-35B fighter unit will be parked on a ground base.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Japan needs a very strong military. Defense and offense. Not to attack again, but offense for self defense.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Having a strong military does prevent regional invasions and war. It is like having a deterrent.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

To all JT "experts"

PLEASE!!!!

Could you please, stop all speculation about the Izumo's capabilities and extent of retrofit required to sustain the F35-B's?!

You DON'T KNOW BETTER than the Japanese side, who stated loud and clear the Izumo was purpose built from the very beginning to house the F35B, or any STOVL for that matter. Many would rather believe the Japanese sources than your armchair expertise any day of the week:

https://thediplomat.com/2018/05/study-japans-largest-warship-can-support-f-35b/

"MUC was also asked to provide an estimate for total cost of the conversion to a full-fledged carrier and a construction schedule along with details of the modifications necessary to operate F-35Bs. Many of these details, however, were redacted from the publicly available version. Yet as I noted in February 2018, according to a Japan Maritime Self Defence Force (JMSDF) source, the Izumo-class has purportedly been designed to operate STOVL fighter jets all along and would only require minor modifications to accommodate the F-35B:"

1 ( +3 / -2 )

How do we know this carrier won't end up supporting some US led military expedition far from the Pacific that has scant support of the Japanese public?

That is a very good point and I think the Japanese government needs to make it absolutely explicit that offensive assets are used ONLY for the defense of Japan and its allies, in which its allies territory is directly threatened, NOT attempts at regime change, not in support of despot Middle East governments, not even necessarily in support of allied attacks on third countries unless its also in Japans interests.

I'm sure there is law that can be written that makes that explicit.

I feel the same way. I want the Aus government to make it explicit we will no longer participate in any wars in the Middle East, unless its a defense of Israel and that is all.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

So many 'war enthusiasts' and weeaboos in here. with a child-like fascination that only leads to suffering, but are completely unaware of it. In decades to come, they will probably 'proudly' state how they were against it all form the start... this is the pattern we have seen time and again. Some people just cannot identify destructive behavioral patterns, let alone take measures to stop the cycle.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

That is a very good point and I think the Japanese government needs to make it absolutely explicit that offensive assets are used ONLY for the defense of Japan and its allies, in which its allies territory is directly threatened, NOT attempts at regime change, not in support of despot Middle East governments, not even necessarily in support of allied attacks on third countries unless its also in Japans interests.

Couldn't agree more. The only difference being that I would prefer not to leave that up to the goodwill of the Japanese, or any other, government. Once again, things are not broken - the don't need fixing. It's insanity to think that Japan's offensive military would not end up in those lucrative conflicts.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

So many 'war enthusiasts' and weeaboos in here. with a child-like fascination that only leads to suffering, but are completely unaware of it. In decades to come, they will probably 'proudly' state how they were against it all form the start... this is the pattern we have seen time and again. Some people just cannot identify destructive behavioral patterns, let alone take measures to stop the cycle.

Go speak to China and Russia and get back to me.

Its the Chinese that use teenagers to build A.I weapons, potentially of mass destruction.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-09/china-recruits-talented-teens-to-help-develop-ai-weapons/10477098

Its the Russians that are working on a 100 megaton nuclear torpedo

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-resurrecting-cold-war-80ft-12796113

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/russia-doomsday-weapon-submarine-nuke-2018-4?r=US&IR=T

I wish the whole cycle would end, but the only alternative right now is deterrence and if necessary going down the same path as China and Russia.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I would add, I would certainly be open to far more diplomatic engagement on weapons of mass destruction and A.I based weapons, but it will be a slow process I imagine because there is no trust.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

but it will be a slow process I imagine because there is no trust.

Exactly. But building a more offensive military is not conducive of trust. Japan already has a huge, advanced military AND the world's most advanced military in its corner. The US, Japan and South Korea are constantly playing war-games and rattling cages in the area.

Japan has brutally invaded other parts of Asia more than once before, and even slaughtered their people in Japan's own streets. We can both agree that diplomacy should be given a chance first. But, in light of that not occurring - what would you do if you were in China's and Russia's shoes? Demilitarize? So far they haven't attacked Japan, right?

It's quite obvious, however, that Japan reforming their constitution will open a Pandora's box of suffering. A race to the bottom.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

I feel the same way. I want the Aus government to make it explicit we will no longer participate in any wars in the Middle East, unless its a defense of Israel and that is all.

I want the Aus government to stop showing any support for the Israeli government that has no desire for a two state solution based on equality of rights. I would NOT support Aus fighting to defend Israel!

Japan has the right to build any type of navy vessel's it wants or needs. Converting a Helicopter Destroyer for fixed wing air craft is fine, and should not be anybody else's business. They should be building their own larger purpose built carriers to offset any China builds.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I want the Aus government to stop showing any support for the Israeli government that has no desire for a two state solution based on equality of rights. I would NOT support Aus fighting to defend Israel!

I don't think there is any doubt that Australia would support Israel if it came under sustained attack that really threatened its existence.

Israel is the only remotely democratic country in the region, albeit a heavily flawed one. It is a U.S ally and by extension, part of the Western alliance network and there are certain historical sites that are very important in the Western tradition we should seek to protect from what would most likely be complete destruction under any sort of Islamic invasion. We have already seen the complete disregard mobs like ISIS have for important historical sites.

In saying that I recognize that this stalemate between the Palestinians and Israeli's needs to be broken, but I honestly don't know that there will ever be a two state solution. I think the other solution, long proposed, is semi-automonous governance for the Palestinians inside Jordan. Something that has been suggested for a long time, but one which Jordan understandably is not keen on.

Both options are hard nuts to crack, to put it mildly.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Japan already has a huge, advanced military AND the world's most advanced military in its corner. 

Japans military is tiny compared to China and the vast majority of its allies defense assets are thousands of nautical miles away. California to Tokyo is 7000 miles/6000 nautical miles away.

The US, Japan and South Korea are constantly playing war-games and rattling cages in the area.

They don't venture inside Chinese or Russian territory, they sail in international waters. North Korea is a different matter though and I accept that South Korea and the U.S in particular rattle the North Koreans regularly. Japan doesn't have much of a hand in that directly

Japan has brutally invaded other parts of Asia more than once before, and even slaughtered their people in Japan's own streets. 

I certainly can't defend Japanese barbarity in the early part of the twentieth century, that is for sure. But its 2018 and Japan is a very different country.

We can both agree that diplomacy should be given a chance first. 

Absolutely. The U.S has offered discussions with Russia on its apparent nuke violations, but they say they are not violating the agreement and refuse to participate. China also refuses to negotiate on its nukes. That is one of the massive problems we have with the existing nuclear treaties between the U.S and Russia - China is not a part of them and doesn't want to be.

It's quite obvious, however, that Japan reforming their constitution will open a Pandora's box of suffering. A race to the bottom.

Why would Japan instigate aggression? They are so incredibly exposed to attack it would extremely foolish to actually kick off a war unilaterally. There support by the West would also evaporate overnight. Japan could not survive under such a scenario.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I don't think there is any doubt that Australia would support Israel if it came under sustained attack that really threatened its existence.

Indeed, Jewish lobby groups have almost as much power over the Australian government as they do over the US government. Something that needs to be addressed under the "foreign influence laws".

Japans military is tiny compared to China and the vast majority of its allies defense assets are thousands of nautical miles away. California to Tokyo is 7000 miles/6000 nautical miles away.

I think the US Pacific fleet is still based in Hawaii and a not insignificant base in Guam. Not to mention the units already in forward position's in bases in Japan and South Korea.

Japan must keep pace militarily or risk further aggression from unfriendly nations.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The Izumo is not a carrier, its just a flat top like the USN uses to transport USMC units, like a MEU. They are just copying the concept of a MEU. There is no threat at all. If they go all out and build real kubos or carrier groups, then I would start getting worried.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Thank you joyriding, most interesting, though she was a seaplane carrier that had to crane the aircraft overboard to launch than. Also in that role .she was beaten by HMS Riviera by 6 days!

Spaghettiplease, no she was adapted while building then converted in 1917, experience taught them that having the runway aft the superstructure was not a good idea, which is when she was converted yet again to a flat top in the 1920’s.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We can both agree that diplomacy should be given a chance first.

And when diplomacy fails, then they should start building weapons? It's a little late by then, don't you think?

Si vis pacem, para bellum - If you want peace, prepare for war

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Why still manned aircraft? Without human, you can ignore all physical limits of human, perform crazy maneuver. you can even launch in the air straight up with rocket propellants. On top of that you can replace that hundred something pounds human with the same weight of weapons.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

extanker, why would you prepare for war if you want peace ? Are you contradicting yourself. If you want to marry a woman, you propose to a man ?

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Akie.

Japan would not need an aircraft carrier were it not for China's unilateral annexation through military force, Japan's sovereign territory.

For the time being you have publicly said that the islands Senkaku, Miyako and Yaeyama. They should be under Chinese sovereignty. And if they use force it means that Japan will be at war. China would be violating Article 9 by being on Japanese territory.

Who in this case would be the aggressor and the warmonger. China or Japan.

You complain about the Japanese military movements. But you are not aware of the actor who is provoking this. When China ceases to want these territories for itself, we will be able to speak of peace and tranquillity and harmony throughout Asia.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

extanker, why would you prepare for war if you want peace ? Are you contradicting yourself. If you want to marry a woman, you propose to a man ?

How do you not understand? Just because you want peace, does not mean that you do not prepare to fight the ones who do not want peace. To think otherwise is ignorant and begging for disaster.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

AgentXDec. 13  11:52 am JST

Japan has brutally invaded other parts of Asia more than once before, and even slaughtered their people in Japan's own streets.

When did Japan slaughter their people in Japan's streets?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

When did Japan slaughter their people in Japan's streets?

I'm thinking it's just really poorly worded and doesn't actually mean they slaughtered Japanese people in Japanese streets, but 'their people' meaning the people of the nations they invaded. Like the 1923 'Korean Revolt' killings.

But I still fail to see how this is an indication that Japan will start a war if they get a small aircraft carrier. Some people have trouble letting go of things that happened almost 100 years ago.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

dougthehead13, there are laws and history to define ownership of the disputed Islands, and war has nothing to do with it. Does China claim Tokyo ? Does China have armed forces on the land of Japan ? Japan claimed a lot of things from China before WW2, and returned a lot back to China too. Senkakus should be returned, as simple as that.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@Akie

extanker, you are so ridiculous. Should the world all have nuclear weapons in order to get rid of nuclear weapons ? Then why should we have treaties and laws to ban the nuclear weapon ?

I'm flattered that you think I came up with this statement. and in Latin, no less.

Unfortunately, I have to give credit where credit is due. It's from a statement from Latin author Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus. I guess he is the ridiculous one, according to you anyway. But most people think he was pretty smart.

There is nothing ridiculous about being prepared to defend ones self.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

extanker, ok I got it. Vegetius was a westerner, wasn't he ? That alone makes him an oracle, and that is not ridiculous.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

When did Japan slaughter their people in Japan's streets?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kant%C5%8D_Massacre

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It's like Japan has a bunch of nagging ex-girlfriends, always bringing up stuff they did years ago...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It's like Japan has a bunch of nagging ex-girlfriends, always bringing up stuff they did years ago...

More like your neighbor threatening to burn your house down for what your great-grandpa did to his great-grandpa.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

More like your neighbor threatening to burn your house down for what your great-grandpa did to his great-grandpa.

Haha, I was speaking more about the commenters here, but you have a good point too!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@BeerDeliveryGuy

More like your neighbor threatening to burn your house down for what your great-grandpa did to his great-grandpa.

That's the plot line of many Chinese Kung Fu dramas and movies. Chinese people never forget family grievances 100 years later.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Only morons didn't see this coming.

Day 1 after launch: Only a helicopter carrier guise!!

Stupid people: Well okay then.

Rest of us: Wait for it..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hmmm, interesting (omoshiroi). Two weren't enough and now the occult jackals among the otherwise peaceful people of Nihon take this step because they, apparently, yearn to see mushrooms illuminate the home islands from Nagasaki to Sapporo. We know that the urge to self-destruction and is strong in Japan and a step such as this makes such a national personality trait undeniable because once Japan reforges the Nationalistic Katana and demands and receives a license to kill others, certainly from America if no one else, Japan's fate as the smoking ruins previously known as Nippon will be signaled by the black rain completely obscuring the rising sun. Either get rid of Abe or stop having children because they will have only a future of pain and early death at the hands of others. Nihon is at a crossroads with one road leading to a continuing prosperous future and the other leading to complete self-destruction. Follow Abe and 'issun saki wa yami' will mean for Nihonjin exactly what it says. Darkness and a Sun never to be seen again. Requiescat in pace...my beautiful but fatally flawed Nihon.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Hmmm, interesting (omoshiroi). Two weren't enough and now the occult jackals among the otherwise peaceful people of Nihon take this step because they, apparently, yearn to see mushrooms illuminate the home islands from Nagasaki to Sapporo. We know that the urge to self-destruction and is strong in Japan and a step such as this makes such a national personality trait undeniable because once Japan reforges the Nationalistic Katana and demands and receives a license to kill others, certainly from America if no one else, Japan's fate as the smoking ruins previously known as Nippon will be signaled by the black rain completely obscuring the rising sun. Either get rid of Abe or stop having children because they will have only a future of pain and early death at the hands of others. Nihon is at a crossroads with one road leading to a continuing prosperous future and the other leading to complete self-destruction. Follow Abe and 'issun saki wa yami' will mean for Nihonjin exactly what it says. Darkness and a Sun never to be seen again. Requiescat in pace...my beautiful but fatally flawed Nihon.

Or they are getting a small aircraft carrier and will be on the road to self-sufficiency. Which I think is a tad more realistic than this dramatic noise.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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