politics

Japan, Germany to expand military cooperation

48 Comments
By MARI YAMAGUCHI

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48 Comments
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Two "old" dogs; they still can bite.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Axis-Powers

Germany has been increasing engagement in the Indo-Pacific region and will be dispatching a frigate to the region.

South China sea and Pasific? That's long way from North sea and Baltic sea, unless want to really show power around Asia.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Good. Germany is an excellent current ally.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Military cooperation with a country that has invested a vast amount of money in China and is also one of the biggest trading partners of the communist regime. Will it work?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

I welcome such alliance and strategic cooperation between these two countries.

And I hope more democratic nations will join such initiative to contain the Chinese militaristic expansion.

The greater is the alliance and the greater chance is to give to China a strong warning.

Especially these days when also Russia is provoking Ukraine massing two full armies on their border.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Really good news to read of this military alliance. Would be great to see more German warships in the area to play their part.

Germany and the EU are examples of democracy and freedom - and will stand up against Communist China along with QUAD, UK, France and all freedom-loving nations.

Wise move.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

Germany is getting really uppity again. Sending naval vessels to the South China Sea. The defense minister saying "One can only speak to Russia in the language of force". Some things never change but it's getting dangerous for them. Time to slap them down again I fear.

Not really. Pretty obvious they are merely posturing. Talking the talk for the benefit of the imperialist powers while securing trade agreements with Germany's largest trading partner, China and continuing to build the pipeline with Germany's fastest growing trading partner, Russia. They realize USA is a washed up power.

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

I welcome such alliance and strategic cooperation between these two countries.

And I hope more democratic nations will join such initiative to contain the Chinese militaristic expansion.

The greater is the alliance and the greater chance is to give to China a strong warning.

Especially these days when also Russia is provoking Ukraine massing two full armies on their border.

Corporate media and the US governments narrative parroted perfectly in a few sentences. Any thoughts of your own on the issue?

-11 ( +7 / -18 )

Two "old" dogs; they still can bite.

Can bite small or very backward countries but luckily for the populations of Japan and Germany, not more than that.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

Can bite small or very backward countries but luckily for the populations of Japan and Germany, not more than that.

Japan and Germany combined could defeat Communist China in a conflict. Easily. Far more high-tech weaponry, better war strategies and experience. Having millions of low-tech "boots on the ground" means little in future wars which will be fought via computers and satellites.

Only a suicidal nation would stir up Japan and Germany.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

Japan and Germany combined could defeat Communist China in a conflict. Easily.

No. You need to spend a little time understanding what the modern Chinese military has and is capable of. Germany in fact has deliberately refused to buy an all aspect low observable aircraft leaving them with nothing that could successfully penetrate either Russian or Chinese airspace and expect to survive long enough to complete its mission much less return home. Both Japan and Germany lack significant capabilities they would need for their forces to survive alone against the Chinese or Russians. In a high end fight like that they need to have the US and UK operating alongside them.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

I suspect this is purely justification for the bureaucrats to allow themselves jaunts to Germany at the taxpayers expense.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

I suspect this is purely justification for the bureaucrats to allow themselves jaunts to Germany at the taxpayers expense.

Well, the beer and sausages are great over there.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Having millions of low-tech "boots on the ground" means little in future wars which will be fought via computers and satellites.

The Chinese were stunned by the US victory in Desert Storm. It left them speechless. Until that war they had no idea of the power of precision guided weapons. They thought their vast army would be invincible until they saw US and allied forces roll over the larger Iraqi army organized and equipped not that much differently from Chinese forces. In the aftermath of that war they completely changed the nature of their military and today have some of the most advanced precision weaponry made. They also have very air defense missiles and radars and comprehensive electronic warfare capabilities. Their navy is far better than anything the old USSR or Russia has ever had. They have weaknesses but not many. Unless you have all aspect low observable aircraft and missiles and lots of them along with very good electronic warfighting capabilities across the full spectrum of electronic warfare, and the ability to absorb losses and keep fighting, don't tangle with the Chinese. You will lose.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Germany cooperated with Japan on the Type 90 main battle tank. The result was perhaps the most expensive derivative of the Leopard II ever made and a tank that was too heavy for the roads and bridges in most of Japan. It is confined to Hokkaido (not an illogical decision when the threat was Soviet armor in the north). Japan is in the process of superceding it with the lighter Type 10 tank that can use roads and bridges in the rest of Japan without breaking them under the weight.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Russia doesn’t take crap. They may have lost the Cold War, but they one WW2. They are scared of a couple of US warships in the Black Sea and know very well that the German army is massively under resources and undermanned. Also, German people don’t want to die in Ukraine.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Japan and Germany combined could defeat Communist China in a conflict

That was obviously a joke, wasn't it?

6 ( +11 / -5 )

What could possibly go wrong?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Gambare Nippon:

Japan and Germany combined could defeat Communist China in a conflict.

You're forgetting, China is no longer that weakling from the early 20th century. But, yeah, you dream on.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

No, minus multiplied with minus gives plus, that’s only valid in math lessons at school. lol

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Purely symbolic, has nothing to do with actual military protection. Germany just trying to get attention for negotiations.

We have the most powerful military on earth protecting Japan.

I’m not American but I don’t buy that the US is a “washed out”or spent force globally, or that China’s continued rise is inevitable. The biggest R&D spending and academic research output (that benefits industry) is still in the US. If anything, the US looks like it’s about to surge again.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The biggest R&D spending and academic research output (that benefits industry) is still in the US. If anything, the US looks like it’s about to surge again.

The only time USA ever "surged" was when Europe and Soviet Union destroyed each other, China was at its weakest point in around 5000 years and Japan was wasting its resources trying to conquer China.

The rest is just nonsensical wishful thinking. China is the leading economic power now. Against Russia or China the only threat the US military poses is its nukes but the regime knows if they use them against Russia or China.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Germany is getting really uppity again. Sending naval vessels to the South China Sea. The defense minister saying "One can only speak to Russia in the language of force". Some things never change but it's getting dangerous for them. Time to slap them down again I fear.

There is always one poster who makes hilarious nonsensical posts that have me laughing so hard my ribs hurt afterwards.

China is the leading economic power now. Against Russia or China the only threat the US military poses is its nukes

Wow a couple in the one article. The US without Trump has global influence, the type China and Russia dream about. It is the influence one gets by promoting democracy and freedom and constantly working with like minded nations to achieve goals. China and Russia for the most part are lone wolves and when a lone wolf faces a pack of wolves it loses every time. China tries very hard to separate nations that work together but it is ineffective in doing so. Biden knows how to build coalitions and will continue to work on doing so to counter China. This infuriates China to no end and will for the most part keep it in check. Mistakes can happen and if it does it will be China thinking it can take on the world and win.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Pure nostalgia! No need to fret. The "China problem" will be solved by means of economics and technology not the military. Meanwhile, the mangy Russian bear is salivating on the sidelines for some of that Chinese honey.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Wow a couple in the one article.

"WOW"

The US without Trump has global influence, the type China and Russia dream about.

Being a global pariah isn't a "good" thing or something that makes the state more powerful economically, militarily and etc.

It is the influence one gets by promoting democracy and freedom

Seriously. I know the corporate media and Western governments like to sputter on with banal cliches they know are utterly ridiculous but must you bother me with it? Freedom for who and do what?

No. Sorry but my "WOW" statements were absolutely accurate.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Russia doesn’t take crap. They may have lost the Cold War, but they one WW2.

No, Russia did not win WWII, they were part of the winning team after being forced from team Hitler by Germany's treachery. They were supplied with over 17 million tons of war supplies by the allies to keep them from being over run by Germany. And it worked. Germany was squeezed like a lemon between Russian and Western armies and they fell. The Allies, all of them, won WWII. Any single nation that claim's it won WWII is a liar. Any person that claims one nation won WWII is badly misinformed.

Germany and Japan are on the allied side now and that conflict (WWII) though still discussed, is in the past. The future is what is important and as more like minded nations come together, hopefully peace will be maintained.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

No. Sorry but my "WOW" statements were absolutely accurate.

No, they were not.

Being a global pariah isn't a "good" thing or something that makes the state more powerful economically, militarily and etc.

So why is China the worlds biggest pariah state?

Freedom for who and do what?

Freedom for everyone to think for themselves and to criticize and blame bad leadership when needed. Things not allowed in China. Things you get locked up for in China. Freedom to make your own future and to be yourself. Freedom to be right or wrong and to learn from your mistakes without a big stick from big brother.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

So why is China the worlds biggest pariah state?

Don't mistake "the world" for USA, Canada, Australia and UK. China's population and real economy is larger than those 4 combined.

Freedom for everyone to think for themselves and to criticize and blame bad leadership when needed.

A walking, talking US regime propaganda poster such as yourself shows whether of not people are allowed blame the regime is meaningless as long as so many people are like you. People in Russia and China are generally far more critical of their regimes. The restoration of capitalism in Russia was a catastrophe so one could argue they should blame the regime more. IMO a poor argument but possible. The rests of the Chinese regime have obviously been outstanding, world-beating or however you want to characterize it but the people are still generally more critical of the ruling regime than in USA.

Freedom to make your own future and to be yourself. Freedom to be right or wrong and to learn from your mistakes without a big stick from big brother.

More banal cliches. Are you in Japan? Have you ever been off the farm in Iowa?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

They were supplied with over 17 million tons of war supplies by the allies to keep them from being over run by Germany.

They "bought" all that material. Stalin said right from the start that the USSR needed from "the little allies" (what Stalin called them) much more than the war materials was for their armies to stop sitting around the UK, *** each other and open a second front.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Don't mistake "the world" for USA, Canada, Australia and UK. China's population and real economy is larger than those 4 combined.

More population perhaps but not yet as big economically as the four Nations seemingly mentioned at random.

A walking, talking US regime propaganda poster such as yourself shows whether of not people are allowed blame the regime is meaningless as long as so many people are like you.

A non argument is your argument. Interesting tactic to again use rubbish Chinese propaganda to back up a no facts argument . US evil, must deny our population the same freedoms of they will become evil like America and the free world. Sad argument from you.

More banal cliches. Are you in Japan? Have you ever been off the farm in Iowa?

Not currently in Japan and not in America either (not even American), but keep up your assumptions it goes well with the rest of your communist backed arguments.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

They "bought" all that material. Stalin said right from the start that the USSR needed from "the little allies" (what Stalin called them) much more than the war materials was for their armies to stop sitting around the UK, *** each other and open a second front.

They, (Russia) like other nations used American Lend Lease and it was all on credit. But supplies also came from Canada and the UK and how was it all transported? was it Russia's mighty maritime fleets guarded by the Russian navy that transported it all there through hostile waters losing men and ships in the process? Heck no, they had bugger all to use for that important work it was the allies who fought through the U-boats, raiders and squadrons of enemy aircraft all to keep Russia in the fight. It is all recorded in the pages of history. Russia like China has no gratitude for what others have done for them but they are quick to take all credit for winning a war when they only fought in one region while others fought in all regions to defend freedom.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Japan and Germany combined could defeat Communist China in a conflict.

Highly unlikely.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Desert Tortoise

LOL low observable are ok but its better to have a great navy. Don't under estimate the Japanese navy they have some of the most sophisticated quiet subs. China you can say what they have the question is are they battle tested? I know how long it takes to build and test aircraft, the question is can those chinese aircraft withstand the g-loads going against some of the most sophisticated supersonic aircraft that the US has? Russia LOL is a big dog with their teeth falling out. The name is a threat thats it. Believe it or not China should be wary of Russia quite as it kept. Russia see's China more of a threat than the US. I can say more but lose lips sinks ship!!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I can say more but lose lips sinks ship!!!

No, no, please do tell us about the US technological marvels like Zumwalt and F35. your taxpayers are all ears!

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

LOL low observable are ok but its better to have a great navy. Don't under estimate the Japanese navy they have some of the most sophisticated quiet subs. China you can say what they have the question is are they battle tested? I know how long it takes to build and test aircraft, the question is can those chinese aircraft withstand the g-loads going against some of the most sophisticated supersonic aircraft that the US has? Russia LOL is a big dog with their teeth falling out. The name is a threat thats it. Believe it or not China should be wary of Russia quite as it kept. Russia see's China more of a threat than the US. I can say more but lose lips sinks ship!!!

Sigh. I have the highest regard for the JMSDF. Our ship was attached to a Japanese task group for a time so we worked with the Japanese ships and aircrews daily. I have had other occasions to operate with them, even had lunch one day on a destroyer of theirs. As I have said here many times before the JMSDF is the best anti-submarine navy in the world, right up there with the US Navy in that regard. I have also said many times that Japan builds the best diesel electric subs in the world, which always brings up a chorus of Australians claiming the French boats are better, bla, bla bla. But I also have good knowledge of what the modern Russian and Chinese military brings to the field and can say with complete confidence that without all aspect low observable aircraft and missiles, there is no way to successfully penetrate Chinese or Russian airspace and survive. Period, full stop. And the tactical problem is not their fighters which btw are plenty maneuverable. Pretty hard to argue with the aerobatic capabilities of a SU-27/SU-30 or any of its derivatives. They can pull gs, they can turn and burn and there are precious few western fighters with similar capabilities in that regard (but if a pilot gets to the merge in a fur ball dogfight they have blown it tactically on several occasions on the way in). The problem for non L-O aircraft are the best modern ground based air defense missile systems and their radars fielded by Russia and China. By that I mean the best versions of S-300 and S-400, HQ-9 and HQ20. Those systems are so good now that 4th gen aircraft cannot operate in areas defended by them and expect to get to their targets. In the old days an F-16 carrying HARM missiles could find an enemy radar site with the help of a Rivet Joint aircraft, dive in and pop it with a HARM. Those days are long over. Both aircraft will be shot down long before that HARM shooter is anywhere close enough to hit the radar site. The only way in now is all aspect stealth. Where the older Russian systems took 25-45 minutes to break down and make road mobile, S-300 style systems can be shut down and folded up in under a minute, and be rolling down the road. Meanwhile another system that was rolling down the road nearby can stop, set up in under a minute and fire missiles 15 seconds later. It's shoot and scoot now. Nobody hangs around long enough for the notional F-16 to find an emitting radar and dive in on it with a HARM. The S-400 battery is going to pop that F-16 with its own missiles long before the F-16 knows where the S-400 is and then that S-400 is going to fold the launcher down, lift the support legs and drive away in under a minute. The missiles don't require illumination for the intercept so the radar can pack up and drive off too. Against those systems you need different tactics and all aspect L-O.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

No, no, please do tell us about the US technological marvels like Zumwalt and F35. your taxpayers are all ears!

Aside from the Advanced Gun System the Zumwalt is actually a pretty impressive ship. Heavy weather testing has silenced all the old salts grumbling about the tumblehome design. It turns out the Zumwalt will roll much less than conventional hull forms in a given sea state and the roll period is much shorter, meaning that after the ship rolls it returns to vertical faster than something like the old Ticonderoga's do. It is a very stable design. That Advanced Gun System was basically rendered obsolete by the ubiquity of cruise missiles but the Navy is probably going to remove the AGS and replace it with launchers for ballistic missiles as part of the Conventional Prompt Strike program. It is also being considered in modified form as a candidate to replace the Ticonderogas. That design has a lot going for it.

As for the F-35, understand what I wrote above about ground based air defenses and you understand why the F-35 exists. That airplane was probably the most difficult airplane to design in history as it has to penetrate those high quality ground based air defenses and not be seen. As for its performance, nobody outside those who operate it and the program office know the truth. I do not and you do not, and don't pretend you do. I have seen too many programs I worked on misrepresented in the press to believe the on-line critics. Unit costs are now down below those of a new production F-15 or F-16. Maintenance costs remain high however, but if you look back at the old F-14, that thing required 40 to 60 man hours of labor for every flight hour. That is more than the F-35 needs. The old Tomcat was hideously expensive to fly and its high cost explains why it was replaced by the F/A-18E/F which only needs about 10-12 man hours of labor for every hour in the air. And btw, I know pilots who have flown both types and none of them would trade their F/A-18E for a Tomcat if they faced actual combat against a peer enemy. The Super Hornet is another airplane that is much better than the on line know-it-alls give it credit for.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Germany has been increasing engagement in the Indo-Pacific region and will be dispatching a frigate to the region.

Ridiculous posturing. The German navy is small, severely underfunded, and one frigate is pretty much all the can send the region. That will mightily impress the CCP, right.

Face it, it is either Japan or the US that have the military muscle to stand up to the CCP, alas both now have goverments that leave that in doubt. Poor Taiwan.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Face it, it is either Japan or the US that have the military muscle to stand up to the CCP, alas both now have goverments that leave that in doubt. Poor Taiwan.

I guess that explains why the US President is sending a personal delegation to speak directly to the Taiwanese President to reinforce the US position that the US will defend Taiwan against a Chinese attack, angering the Chinese and drawing a public rebuke from them in the process? I guess that also explains a US carrier strike group conducting air operations in the Taiwan Strait and subsequent deployments of other US ships and a Coast Guard cutter through the Straits? Or the two carrier groups that were recently operating in the South China Sea with one of those groups back in the SCS right now? Unwilling to stand up indeed! Do you actually believe the things you write?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Hopefully the war loving nations will cancel each other out, and leave the rest of us in peace.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Germany is a great country, but like Japan it needs to beef up its forces. The Germany military could not even win a war in Europe let alone fight one in Asia.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Face it, it is either Japan or the US that have the military muscle to stand up to the CCP, alas both now have goverments that leave that in doubt. Poor Taiwan

India, with the right military leadership would also pose a serious problem for China in the region.

Germany joining France and the UK in representing European interests in South East Asia where a lot of its trade passes through is a sign or their readiness to defend their interests where ever that may be. Write Germany off as a military power if you like but when combined with the two European military powers in the UK and France and throw in Italian forces and Spain you have start to see that European naval forces, while not the biggest in the world are modern and have more carriers than China does. If they are ready to join a coalition to keep the peace in the Asia region I would not count it out as being a credible influence.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Desert Tortoise

I guess that explains why the US President is sending a personal delegation to speak directly to the Taiwanese President to reinforce the US position that the US will defend Taiwan against a Chinese attack

You can guess all you want, but so far everything Biden has done is sign papers handed to him that favour the CCP. Your obscure reference to what some personal delegation says is wishful thinking.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Peter14

India, with the right military leadership would also pose a serious problem for China in the region.

It does already, but since India is always in a military standoff against Pakistan, it is not really in position for a big military involvement elsewhere.

Germany joining France and the UK in representing European interests in South East Asia where a lot of its

Alas, the globalist cabale in these countries is completely dependent on the CCP for their economies and has not will to do more about China than some cheap rethoric. If the AdF wins in Germany and Le Penn in France, maybe something can change. Until then forget it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

WilliB

the globalist cabale in these countries is completely dependent on the CCP for their economies and has not will to do more about China than some cheap rethoric.

China is also dependent on trade, more so than any other nation, Losing all trade with Europe, the US, Canada and Australia is more than it can handle. The resources that drive China come in a large part from Australia, and its exports go to the world. A war would mean an embargo on Chinese goods and trade would be destroyed by the opposing side, on the sea and any land routes would also be destroyed. It would not be all one way by any means as China has a fearsome missile inventory of varying ranges and is in final development of hyper-sonic missile systems. The world realizes that a third world war will devastate everyone, no nation would be unaffected. The question is how close we will come to a major war before that single mistake that ignites the fuse comes along and it wont matter which side is responsible, from that point on all bets are off any anything can and will happen.

A new equilibrium will not easily be achieved as China looks for dominance in trade, technology and militarily.

The free world has no trust in the CCP and will not lay down to coercion. A point will be reached where all must choose between peace or war and it only takes one to choose war for us all. We all know peace is preferred but peace with no free will may be to high a price for some to accept.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Good news and also French government recently dispatched its military to Indian pacific region.

I think unfortunately the totalitarian country will make an invasion into Taiwan and other island even if democratic coutures defend its attempt. They won’t care how many people are died.

So the key is called “soft power” as US president try to do I think.

Not only US but Germany , Japan and other advanced counties have a “Soft power” also

Specifically, Democratic counties make alliances strongly and withdraw supply chain from the totalitarian counties to weaken their economy so that they cannot afford war expenditures.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

 but so far everything Biden has done is sign papers handed to him that favour the CCP. 

What "papers"? Be specific.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Good news and also French government recently dispatched its military to Indian pacific region.

The French have always had some military forces stationed on New Caledonia and around French Polynesia. They even visit little Clipperton Island off the coast of Mexico from time to time.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A new equilibrium will not easily be achieved as China looks for dominance in trade, technology and militarily.

A declining population along with the rapid aging of the population will greatly constrain China's economy, and with it the CCPs and Xi Jinping's ambitions, in the near future if it is not already doing so. China's working age population peaked in 2014 and has steadily declined since. China will publish the results of their 2020 census soon and most demographers expect to see China's population to have peaked and begun to decline. A declining workforce combined with an increasing proportion of non working elderly combined with a declining total fertility rate are not a recipe for success.

Also know that China is a pressure cooker of pent up frustration and anger. Xi Jinping and the CCP are widely hated. Most of China runs on patronage and the "red envelope" (cash gifts are traditionally given in a decorative red envelope, but "red envelope" is also short hand for cash bribes). It used to be a business needed hand out some red envelopes to get started and that was it. Now party cadre come back every year and poke their hand out for more and if the business doesn't pony up they get inspected by all kinds of different agencies and often end up paying fines and/or face jail. The CCP has turned into a gangland style protection racket and business doesn't like it. Add to that the way the CCP is messing with Ant Group makes Chinese business people very anxious about their future. The conduct of the CCP in the pandemic has enraged people. There are many within the party itself living in fear for their lives and the lives of their families. Remember the old USSR looks so invincible right up until the day the wall came down in Berlin. I think the same is true of China. Add in the seething anger of the Tibetans, Uyghurs and now Inner Mongolia, plus the suppression of Hong Kong, Xi is juggling a lot of razor sharp hatchets. If he drops one or shows any kind of weakness he will be swept aside. Many in the CCP would love to see him gone. There was an attempted coup in late summer or early fall of 2017. Four top PLA generals went to prison on that one. There is resentment of Xi within the PLA too. Xi has to resort to increasing repression to stay in power and that is not conductive to economic success.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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