politics

Japan history revisionists bolder under Abe: analysts

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Japan (or the current ruling party) is deliberately trying to "up the nationalism". That much is plain to see, if you look back at the last 5 years. That people retort back to their old ways of antagonizing China and other Asian nations shouldn't be a surprise. If the ruling government is also denying past war crimes then aren't they setting the precedent for others to do so in an even more blatant way?

9 ( +15 / -6 )

Indeed, voters have bet on Abe mainly for his promise to revitalise the economy. Polls show underwhelming support for his pet project of constitutional revision.

I keep on giving the voters credit that they will come to their senses and realize that the economy is not going to get any better with Abe at the helm.

His popularity is based on smoke and mirrors and assisted in no small part, by the media making him look more than he is.

People are not going to vote against Abe or the LDP as long as they have money in their pockets and there is relative peace in their home.

9 ( +16 / -7 )

I don't think the move will grow bigger in Japan. Recent nationalism in Japan is only a reaction agaist indecent anti-Japan campaigns of China and Korea which use the histories (written by them) and imbued to their people as tools to attack Japan.

-22 ( +8 / -30 )

@Yubaru

I've found that a lot of people vote by their family inclination. Such as their temple/religion, their Dads company and colleagues, and so on and so forth. I've met very few people who have changed their vote once, and the reason they vote how they do has a lot to do with their parents.

10 ( +17 / -7 )

"See this, kids? This, is our future. What? Yeah. ME AIN'T SEEING IT TOO" On a serious note, repugnant.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Motoya has told supporters he “will never withdraw” the book under foreign pressure.

Close down his foreign branches. Let's see him "never withdraw” under THAT pressure.

Motoya has also come under fire for anti-Semitic comments made in an in-house magazine placed in his Canada hotels, asserting that Jews “control” key sectors of the United States

How is he still able to operate there?

The lack of vocal criticism over revisionist ideas in Japan, however, does not mean nationalist views resonate widely.

I'll disagree with that statement.

Indeed, voters have bet on Abe mainly for his promise to revitalise the economy.

YYEEAAHH...Look how THAT worked out...

5 ( +10 / -5 )

@Schopenhauer

Agreed. Most people in meet ultimately do have sensible views on this. You can't assume people to have a western POV on things, but Japanese are in no way longing for conflict and would rather see this out by muscling up and waiting it out. But it's a unusual for a society to differ to another nation (USA) as its go to army and protector and thus also not be able to discuss any conflicts with total sovereignty. Japan has to discuss its problems with its big brother in the room at all times. Its been this way for a whole generation and a half, and now compared to other nations people have low patriotic values, but a pretty high sense of nationalism is being blasted onto them, as Japan prepares the next phase of rebuilding armies.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

But it's a unusual for a society to differ to another nation (USA) as its go to army and protector

Obey your master!!!

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

"His history book has elicited no condemnation from the Japanese government and little from media or broader society."

This is what bugs me. Not that the LDP is reluctant to alienate their loony bedfellows, but how enormously apathetic the average citizen is. Heads in the proverbial sand. They may not agree with Motoya and those like him but they're hardly up in arms about it either. "After all, that doesn't affect me. Kawai-sou about my zainichi friend or the cockroaches referenced by the black vans. But really, APA offers our co. good rates."

The rightists are a vocal minority that is now not merely emboldened but empowered. They're not just a outside voice--they're in the cabinet. And ultimately they're attuned to the nation in that they know your average Taro isn't going to call them out. Perhaps if the western media fed readers less Japanophilia, fewer quirky stories about white ninjas and kawaii fairytales, outside pressure might mitigate some of Abe & co's worst impulses.

I keep on giving the voters credit that they will come to their senses and realize that the economy is not going to get any better with Abe at the helm.

Agreed but what's the alternative? The opposition is absolutely comatose. They stand for nothing other than critiquing whatever's on offer by the ruling coalition, even when it's something they supported when they held power (TPP, tax increases, fealty to the US).

12 ( +15 / -3 )

"China says 300,000 people died in a six-week spree of killing, rape and destruction by the Japanese military that began in December 1937."

The population of Nanjing was 250,000 in 1937. At the post war International Tribunal for the Far East (aka Tokyo Trials) the Republic of China (now Taiwan) attempted to prosecute the Nanjing issue using a figure of 100,000 deaths. The Tribunal dismissed the claim for insufficient evidence. It is no surprise that there are those, not just nationalists but scholars as well, who do not accept the script in entirety as painted by China as part of their official anti-Japan political and diplomatic position. A position aimed directly at destroying the US-Japan security alliance, the biggest obstacle to their aspiration of Asian hegemony.

-1 ( +15 / -16 )

OssanAmerica - The population of Nanjing was 250,000 in 1937.

Yes, this is correct. However, considering the whole population was wiped out and other towns and cities were sacked on the way to and from Nanjing the figure of 300,000 does not seem too far exaggerated. Furthermore, these 'revisionists' are claiming the massacre never took place at all. I wonder how Americans would feel if the Japanese started denying the attack on Pearl Harbor ever happened. I'm sure there would be a similar political and societal outburst.

As for this book, Japan recently passed a law against hate speech. This book is nothing more than hate speech propaganda and should be banned under that law.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

He is a truth seeker not a revisionist.

-26 ( +6 / -32 )

Unfortunately, there is a strong tradition of group voting in Japan. Corporations used to practically order (or openly order) their employees to vote for certain candidates or parties, and many still do - perhaps covertly, or simply through suggestion, but that still gets the job done. One reason for the LDP's fall in 2009 was because this deeply ingrained system temporarily faltered. For example, the Japan Medical Association (the "ishikai") didn't press its massive membership to vote for the LDP in that election (even though Aso appealed to the JMA for votes). Alas, most Japanese voters are too afraid to think and vote independently.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Search old oldmagazins issue aound 1938 ,and read. There are story after story of Nanking massacres. In Library you can find.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Revisionism and denial will always revolve around a victim count. Whats the ballpark figure have to be to reach an Atrocity threshold?

Ironically Abe san government will be judged on his failure to appoint competent cabinet ministers to bring about economic reform. More worrying still is the lack of any credible opposition polices to counter a ruling Government unable to determine decisions and actions to achieve declared objectives. An example is affordable child care for working parents in the midst of continuing depopulation crisis.

Tellingly the Government of China's lack of any political or moral compass, the fragrant human rights abuses, or any recognizable grasp of democracy or international law exasperates the situation further.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

They can do what they want. China and Korea are no longer the weak neighbours of Japan. In fact, China is helping to prop up Japan's economy. One day, all those rich tourists may just disappear.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Looks like Alt-Facts are catching on.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

DisillusionedFeb. 20, 2017 - 08:47AM JST OssanAmerica - The population of Nanjing was 250,000 in 1937. Yes, this is correct. However, considering the whole population was wiped out and other towns and cities were sacked on >the way to and from Nanjing the figure of 300,000 does not seem too far exaggerated

Thank you for making my point. It is exaggerated nevertheless. And there is a tendency to label anyone who disagrees with that exaggerated number as a "revisionist".

"As for this book, Japan recently passed a law against hate speech. This book is nothing more than hate speech propaganda and should be banned under that law."

Completely wrong, This is not hate speech, It may certainly be considered propaganda, but it is only countering Chinese propaganda, In anycase, in a free country this hotel owner is free to express his views and his customers are free to avoid his hotels.

-11 ( +8 / -19 )

All textbooks should be jointly developed and written by historians from both sides - Japan and China/Taiwan/Hong Kong on the one hand, and Japan and South Korea on the other (North Korea has ruled itself out of consideration, in my view). Then only textbooks that have passed through this process should be allowed for use in schools in the affected countries/territories. In time, this approach will solve the problem. Too late for idiots/liars like Motoya and his counterparts in the Chinese government, for example, but this would definitely have a positive impact for the future of all.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Maybe that's what he really learned at Mar-a-Lago - how to leverage Japan's equivalent of 4chan failures into a bigoted, fake news spewing army.

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1 thing I do agree in all those comments is ghat the young generations shouldn't have to apologize for what theit elders have done during the war time since they weren't even born. That said what happened in the past SHOULDN'T be hidden or travestite from either side of the story. The act that has been perpetrated at that time or any other time must be remembered and thought with as much objectivity as possible. I am not just talking about Japan or Germany during WWII bug it also include native people from North America that are still blaming, complaining about what their ancestors have lost and keep asking to the new generation to keep apologizing and paying for what happened when they weren't even born... if people keep acting ghat way we will never move forward and will always be stuck in the past repeating same bad choices such I stepped on your foot because you have stepped on mine then it was a mistake but since you have stepped on my foot intentionally as a pay back then it's my turn to step on your foot as another pay back and it will keep going on and on and on as we stay all stupide...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

This is a 'duh' moment...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Japan's denying of history is nothing new its been ongoing 70+yreas now.

It is rather depressing to see the ldp & their ilk spread lies & propaganda & media virtually does NOTHING!

And the following also does NOT help:

The lack of vocal criticism over revisionist ideas in Japan, however, does not mean nationalist views resonate widely.

I don't believe that for a second, most people here don't know or acknowledge much about Japan & WWII, but strangely enough they totally get what the Nazi's did...........rather bizarre, but that's how it is unfortunately

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Furthermore, these 'revisionists' are claiming the massacre never took place at all.

Which ones?

Some deny a massacre took place. Others deny the exaggerated figures and propose more realistic (or even more unrealistic) figures. Others try to excuse it by disputing the deliberateness of the massacre. The revisionists are not monolithic.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Where are all of these revisionists (plural)? This article only mentions a single book.

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

Whatever propaganda successful hotel chain operator Toshio Motoya inflict on his customers is his own lookout. Mixing business with political controversy will sooner or later have unwelcome consequences. The repercussions will eventually materialize from Motoya's unique brand of rather contemptible arrogance and smug self importance.

Why the media so foolishly, are gullible enough to provide a platform for Motoya narrow poisonous views provokes questions into the amount of influence and control these right wing organizations have over nation broadcasters and publishing.

Over eighty percent of Japans population were not born in this fraught period of Japanese imperialism, and rejection of Motoya odious views and opinions will always be answered by a population devoted to a pacifist constitution.

However the ultra-conservative lobby Nippon Kaigi's Moritomo Gakuen is spreading fascism directly into the minds Japan's children, influencing the curriculum of Kindergartens like Tsukamoto. This behavior needs to be vigorously challenged.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Motoya not only penned a book calling the 1937 Nanjing massacre a lie but proudly displays it in guest rooms of his nationwide chain

Is he calling it a 'lie' , as in denying it occurred, or as in disputing the number of victims?

I haven't read his book and the above article isn't very clear about it. I've read in other coverage that Motoya wasn't denying it outright.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The prime minister, who once prevaricated over whether Japan’s wartime aggression amounted to “invasion”,

"prevaricate" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prevaricate

to deviate from the truth

All he said was that the the difference between "aggression" and "invasion" is a matter which is not worth commenting because the definitions of the terms are not clear cut.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

He is a truth seeker not a revisionist.

I just spit my coffee all over the screen here reading this! Abe wouldn't know the truth if it slapped him upside his head. He creates his own "truths" and sells them as historical facts.

He is clever as hell, by forcing the discussion onto numbers of casualties/deaths that can never be proven either way, he has managed to turn the discussion into now, did it happen or not.

China would be better off at not pushing "how many" but getting Japan/Abe to acknowledge that too many died at the hands of the Japanese invaders.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

I don't believe for a second that you spit coffee on your screen.

That's a revisionist version of what truly happened.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Last year, an 87-year-old woman was sentenced to prison for denying that Auschwitz was a death camp...

It's so ironic that Germany today is still acting like Nazi, denying freedom of speech - a fundamental human right. The poor old lady cannot express what she believes because of iron fists of government police power. Germany has never leaned its lesson.

Hopefully Japan never become like Germany of old or today and keep upholding the most important human right - freedom of speech. Don't ever let the government take away the precious right from the hotel man, no matter how dumb his opinions may be. In so doing, Japan can show she has really learned a lesson from the past mistake - unlike Germany.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

"...by what they see as a tacit wink from hawkish Prime Minister Shinzo Abe."

A tacit wink? Try a handshake, a "yoroshiku", and a hefty envelope if they do. Abe has done half the white-washing of history texts himself, and even gives discounts to schools that promote racism, as can be seen with the Osaka school.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Present Japanese social is similar to pre-war situation under Fascism and militarism state "Great Japan Empire".

Racism that is rampant from social media to real society, mainstream media are full of "Japan is praised from the World" "Japanese is wonderful" "Japan is great", mass murder by prejudice such as Sagamihara murder case,

And Totalitarianism,exclusionism,militarism.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Some respected academics estimate a lower number of victims, but mainstream scholarship does not question that the incident, known as the “Rape of Nanking,” took place.

This argument bothers me a lot. The president of APA Hotel is criticized not because his assertion is a lie but because he in not in "mainstream". Is expressing a minority view a crime or something?

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

CH3CHO: "Is expressing a minority view a crime or something?"

It's not a "view" any more than suggesting the fact that the world is round is merely "one point of view". It happened, CH3CHO. It is indisputable. There is no 'view' that it did not happen, only lies.

As for Abe giving "tacit approval", the man has white-washed the history texts himself, having successfully removed references even to "comfort women" (forget about calling them "sex slaves" to begin with!). He's given them far more than tacit approval -- he's given them the thumbs up.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

The president of APA Hotel is criticized not because his assertion is a lie

The president of APA Hotel is criticized because his assertion is a lie.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

smithinjapanFEB. 20, 2017 - 02:37PM JST

theeastisredFEB. 20, 2017 - 02:40PM JST

The article itself claims that the "Rape of Nanjing" is just a mainstream view. Prove it, before making it a truth.

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

The article itself claims that the "Rape of Nanjing" is just a mainstream view.

They are just being polite, though no idea why they feel that necessary. We all know what it means, including, I suspect, you.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

What worries me with the Chinese bogeyman knocking at the door is that over the past few years I've seen a notable change in some of my Japanese friends. We are not talking ivy leaguers here, just your average jo blow with an equally average education. The rise of the right wingers and nationalism on the internet has pushed all of the right emotional buttons and sucked them in. Because they are not taught critical thinking at school they buy it hook, line and sinker. Everything they read becomes fact to them , and if atrocities didn't happen well smack me silly if they are more than willing to believe that too. These are good people , being led astray down a very "regrettable" path. Unfortunately with this new found "knowledge" they are very eager to share their new found passion with everyone they meet. ( I think we all know the type; both here and at home! ) . Every counter argument one brings up falls on deaf ears , as WE are the ones that are misguided and controlled by false news. Its a lose lose situation for all, an immediate party killer and I just hope its a phase that will pass with time. Its classic conspiracy theory stuff and sucks in a certain type of lost individual, often loners looking for some form of personal identity. To be treated gently , with a cool head and big heart. We need to look forward to survive not backwards. Am hopeful like everything, this too will pass.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Limit the internet, it's driving people nuts.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

theeastisredFEB. 20, 2017 - 03:03PM JST

They are just being polite, though no idea why they feel that necessary. We all know what it means, including, I suspect, you.

Why don't you prove it, rather than repeating "we all know".

Both sides agree that tens of thousands of Chinese soldiers were killed in the battle of Nanjing. When you read the ruling of Far East Military Tribunal after WW2, you can find that China admitted that the Chinese soldiers in Nanjing took off their uniforms, wore plain clothes and concealed their weapon, without surrendering. Japanese soldiers marching into the city killed a lot of unsurrendering Chinese soldiers. Basically, the argument amoung historians is whether the killing of unsurrendering Chinese soldiers is massacre or not.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

C3PO:

Don't you find that in general, starting from a certain position and then trying to make the facts fit the position invariably works a lot less well than doing it the other way round (i.e. starting with the facts and being led by them to the position)?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

CH3CHO: "The article itself claims that the "Rape of Nanjing" is just a mainstream view. Prove it, before making it a truth."

It's already been proven, and even your own academics admit it -- except the white-washers.

"but mainstream scholarship does not question that the incident, known as the “Rape of Nanking,” took place."

And that's mainstream Japanese, for that matter, not the world, which knows for a fact. There is plenty of evidence; just because it's not on 2-channel and the IJA tried to burn everything doesn't mean it is not there. It's FACT, not "opinion", or do you honestly believe the world being square is open for debate?

"Japanese soldiers marching into the city killed a lot of unsurrendering Chinese soldiers. Basically, the argument amoung historians is whether the killing of unsurrendering Chinese soldiers is massacre or not."

Ah, alternative facts! The world knows The Nanjing Massacre. No one but you and a few denialists and apologists 'know' your made-up version.

Even former Japanese soldiers have admitted to atrocities -- you are YOU to tell THEM they are wrong?

Written by Shiro Azuma, former IJA soldier, in his diary published in multiple languages (not Japanese, though):

"When I tried to cut off the first one, either the farmer moved or I mis-aimed. I ended up slicing off just part of his skull. Blood spurted upwards. I swung again... and this time I killed him... We were taught that we were a superior race since we lived only for the sake of a human god—our emperor. But the Chinese were not. So we held nothing but contempt for them... There were many rapes, and the women were always killed. When they were being raped, the women were human. But once the rape was finished, they became pig's flesh."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiro_Azuma

That's but one example, my friend. I know, I know... he has a "fuzzy memory", unlike the nationalists who were never there, right?

6 ( +10 / -4 )

qwerty.....lol!

No it's an "alternative fact", metaphorically speaking! (Seems some folks can "read" sarcasm"!)

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Whether he likes it or not, it's like alternative facts become bolder under Trump

0 ( +2 / -2 )

No comment from CH3CHO when given direct quotations from his countrymen. I probably would just pretend the thread never happened, too.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Germany got it right. Japanese who deny history are committing a hate crime

In Canada we do have hate crime laws, hence Motoya had to recant his views

"""Motoya was forced to issue a statement after Jewish groups in Canada demanded that Coast Hotels, owned by the APA Group, remove the offending material. The hotel chain got rid of the magazines and apologized while Motoya issued a statement that was posted on the website of the Jewish Federation of Greater Vancouver.

“It is very unfortunate that my writings gave you an erroneous impression that I hold anti-Semitic beliefs,” Motoya said."""

If you have the laws in place you can win against those that are full of hate

6 ( +8 / -2 )

sf2k: "“It is very unfortunate that my writings gave you an erroneous impression that I hold anti-Semitic beliefs,”

You have to love the roundabout non-apologies, eh? It's never, "I'm sorry," but always, "Sorry you feel that way" followed by an "We have already said the word, sorry", etc. Abe is HUGE with this, always "sorry war happened", but never sorry for Japan raping nations and killing, literally, millions of innocents.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Countries always present a history that shows them in a good light... who in their right mind would want a population of millions to be constantly made to feel guilty all of the time. Only in Germany are they taught the horrors of what their country did.

Are American students taught about the massacres of native Americans? About MaiLai in the Vietnam War? When I was at school I was taught about the tobacco trade, but they left out the slaves part of that. I was never taught about British Imperial atrocities in India or Africa. Are the Chinese taught about the millions massacred by Mao and his revolutionaries?

I'm not supporting for one moment the revisioning of Japanese school history books, I'm just saying they aren't alone in doing it.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

For all of you asking - Why aren't the ordinary citizens condemning this? Ask yourself first this - What do Japanese people know about World War Two? And here's your answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XumjxXaTKr8

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Thunderbird2: "Are American students taught about the massacres of native Americans?"

Yes.

"About MaiLai in the Vietnam War?"

Specifically, no, but they are most certainly taught about the Vietnam war, and no one looks back on it fondly I can tell you that, to begin with. But in Japan you actually have people with precisely the same kind of thinking that led to Japan's destruction, and an actual NOSTALGIA for the pre-war colonial era. Hell, just look at the Gunkajin link the other day, with some old Japanese waxing nostalgic about how great life was there, and how free (of course not mentioning forced slavery). Japan not only does not want to mention specifics at all, it flat out denies them and teaches they are the VICTIM of WWII and international persecution, etc. Do you think Americans are taught that Vietnam did not happen? That it was a good thing they did?

"I'm not supporting for one moment the revisioning of Japanese school history books, I'm just saying they aren't alone in doing it."

They're alone in pretending they don't do it and proclaiming themselves the victims of the resulting criticism. Point out that Japan is becoming more and more like the China they criticize and they get defensive and say it's not true, that you can't understand, etc. etc.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

smithinjapan

yeah the JapanTimes article I was quoting from noted they didn't feel Motoya's apology was sincere, in keeping with the non apology apology

but it at least something was done and the articles were physically removed

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Some aspects of past wars are taught in schools. But the causes for war's origin are always filtered by the victors.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Comparing Germany and Japan's admissions of their respective massacres, it is important to note that unlike Germany, Japan was never forced by the United States to admit their guilt and apologize. This may have had something to do with the fact that General Douglas MacArthur granted immunity to several members of the Japanese Imperial Army for war crimes they committed during WWII at a covert biological and chemical weapons research facility in North East China called Unit 731.

The Japanese conducted cruel and painful medical experiments of some 250,000 Chinese men, women and children (without any sort of anesthetic - because that might alter the research results). They operated an on-site crematorium to dispose of the bodies (a process which they called "putting a log on the fire"). The Americans were anxious to get their hands on the resulting research findings from the Japanese, so they let the perpetrators of these crimes off the hook in exchange for the documents. (See Wikpedia and other sources for more details).

1 ( +2 / -1 )

For what it's worth, I've canceled the 7 nights I'd been planning to stay in APA hotels for my next visit to Japan. Never again.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Some aspects of past wars are taught in schools. But the causes for war's origin are always filtered by the victors.

Rather by the perpetrator.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

“It is very unfortunate that my writings gave you an erroneous impression that I hold anti-Semitic beliefs,” Motoya said

His writings did not give an erroneous impression that he holds anti-Semitic beliefs. So there is no need to apologise for that. On the contrary, his writings gave the correct impression that he holds anti-Semitic beliefs. So, he can either brazenly admit to holding anti-Semitic beliefs and kiss goodbye to his business in Canada while risking infringing Canada's hate-speech laws, or he can repudiate his anti-Semitic beliefs and recognise that he was wrong, apologising profusely. What he can't do is apologise for holding anti-Semitic beliefs while continuing to hold them, or pretend that he didn't hold anti-Semitic beliefs and issue a random apology anyway for nothing in particular, which is exactly what he actually did.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

smithinjapanFEB. 20, 2017 - 07:49PM JST

No comment from CH3CHO when given direct quotations from his countrymen. I probably would just pretend the thread never happened, too.

What question?

do you honestly believe the world being square is open for debate?

Unrelated question. By the way, no one, not even Einstein knows the end of the space/world.

Even former Japanese soldiers have admitted to atrocities -- you are YOU to tell THEM they are wrong?

Written by Shiro Azuma, former IJA soldier, in his diary published in multiple languages (not Japanese, though):

Shiro Asuma was sued for false statement in the published diary. The court concluded on January 21, 2000 that the diary was false because Asuma was not in Nanjing during the days of alleged "Rape of Nanjing" based on the troop record and a diary of his fellow soldier.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9D%B1%E5%8F%B2%E9%83%8E

So, smithinjapan, do you admit that your claim is based on false statement?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

CH3CHO: "What question?"

I didn't say 'question', I said QUOTATION.

"Shiro Asuma was sued for false statement in the published diary."

And pres tel, what nation was this trial held in, by chance?

Thanks for the link to the editable wiki, though. I requested a couple of proper changes be made, but I think the winger that made up the page will likely snort and deny it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

smithinjapanFEB. 21, 2017 - 03:15PM JST

How do you address the fact that Shiro Azuma was not in Nanjing when he "witnessed" Nanjing Massacre? The location of the court does not matter with regard to this question, does it?

So, smithinjapan, do you admit that your claim is based on false statement?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@CH3CHO

Seeing as you've taken up the mantle of revising pretty much well recorded atrocities, have a go at this as well. Pray tell, were unthinkable tests carried out on human beings a false assertion or not?

http://www.unit731.org/Experiments.html

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Fred WallaceFEB. 21, 2017 - 06:14PM JST

Unit 731? Bringing in an irrelevant topic is a sign of derailing discussion.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

future generations should not have to say sorry.

Well Abe is right about that. Why should people keep apologizing for what happened a hundred years ago?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Bringing in an irrelevant topic is a sign of derailing discussion

Hence proving my point!!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Fred WallaceFEB. 22, 2017 - 11:47AM JST

Hence proving my point!!

Silly. What proof?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Silly. What proof (sigh)

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Frankly, even IF hypothetically the massacre was a lie, the massacre is still a drop in the bucket compared to the other attrocities Japan committed, it's just like denying the holocaust

0 ( +1 / -1 )

doesn’t mind if his denial of a notorious Japanese World War II military atrocity in China drives customers away.

I hope it drives enough away that he is looking at bankruptcy in 3 years.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

So, smithinjapan, do you admit that your claim is based on false statement?

The biggest problem with these people is that if you deny facts claimed by these people, it automatically means you are a revisionist. Deny the numbers will be equating to denying the actual event. Denying factual situations equal denial of a series of events. There is no critical thinking when it comes to these folks. Regarding the Nanjing massacre, I believe actual numbers will be difficult to determine because there is no way to accurately get the right numbers. Finding an estimate will be the closest thing a historian can do. Nonetheless, both sides of the political party will try to manipulate the numbers to fit their motives. There's nothing wrong with trying to find a closest accurate estimate possible and then try to dispute a stated number that may be inaccurate so long as it can be backed up with evidence (or provide reasons how such numbers cannot be correct). But people can't accept that such act is a method of fact finding and automatically scream that it the person is in a revisionist denial. If this author stated that no such massacre took place, then he should be condemned. If he disputes the numbers? Then he should provide reasons for disputing such numbers and its up to the readers to point out the flaws in his reasons. Did anyone read the book and be able to tell what his position is? Flat out denial or something else?

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You don't argue with Nazi-like racists and sociopath about race inferiority based on biological study.

What Japanese rightwing is preaching here has nothing to do with historical academic study, but their ideology of Japanese supriority. They simply honor the invasion. If Japan and China solve the controversy about numbers of victims in Nanjing massacre, the right wing will find another issue to justify the invasion anyway.

Just ignore these revisionists.

Do not believe for a second that they do all this to seek truth.

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