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Japan hits out at UNESCO for archiving Nanjing massacre documents

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Yet letters and memorabilia for kamikaze pilots have been floated as worthy of putting forward for inclusion and, as it says here, documents related to the victimhood of Japanese prisoners also put forward and accepted. Politicised? Sure. Japan should only be regarded as victim or having no choice.

53 ( +53 / -1 )

There's some chance, though scant, that by being truthful about the many hideous acts our respective cultures have committed that we can learn not to repeat similar acts, but there's NO chance to learn if cultures continue to deny that they too did hideous things. EVERY nation involved in any war any time in history committed hideous acts. To deny that and try to hide from it is pathetic.

36 ( +36 / -2 )

The first was a body of 18th century documents amassed by a Buddhist temple and the second a tranche of documents related to the internment of Japanese prisoners in Siberian labor camps after the end of World War II.

Of course, the documents related to Nanjing are a problem for Japan, but it had no issue submitting a request for and getting approval for the documents related to Japanese POWs in Siberian labor camps. The latter wasn't political at all. Of course not. Only the former. Pot meet kettle.

33 ( +34 / -2 )

Good. UN is no way bias as Japan claimed. Japan need to learn to move one and accept history. Thousands of innocent Chinese civilians killed by Imperial Japan in Nanking Massacre.

32 ( +35 / -4 )

Good on UNESCO - the Nanjing Massacre (or in the whitewashers' language - "incident") documents deserve to be archived and studied. The reaction from this government is petulant and childish to put it politely. Its funny how the Japanese government has attacked UNESCO as being "political" - yet when one of their own (many) nominations are approved, it's accepted as apparently well-deserved!

30 ( +33 / -4 )

Japan really needs to grow up. It's ok to have the Russian POWs documents part of UNEDCO but not the massacres Japan did. No matter what the numbers I can bet while every kids it forced to visit Hiroshima, not one will have a school trip to China to look at Japanese history there. No wonder Japan doesn't have many friends in Asian regarding history. Everyone disagrees with Japan on these points. Pretty sick and tired of listening to them about it.

29 ( +31 / -3 )

Some think that if it is not told (ot not allowed to be told), it did never happen...

16 ( +17 / -2 )

*Japan hits out at UNESCO for archiving Nanjing massacre documents**

"Japan" = *Abe and his ultra-right wing buddies who are trying to relive past "glories."

17 ( +24 / -6 )

This history is never going to go away, except probably in the Japanese education system version of history. China will never forget. Western historians will never forget. But Japan seeks to develop and perpetuate a gap in understanding that will handicap its relations with China into the future and distant future.

21 ( +23 / -3 )

There are two version of the story some claimed by the same person like F. Tillman Durdin of the New York Times. His original article reported all the major issues of the Nanking incident: the murder of civilians, the execution of Chinese soldiers, conscription, looting and rape but an interview much after done by Bungeishunju states.

「(上海から南京へ向かう途中に日本軍が捕虜や民間人を殺害していたことは)それはありませんでした。」とし、「私は当時、虐殺に類することは何も目撃しなかったし、聞いたこともありません」「日本軍は上海周辺など他の戦闘ではその種の虐殺などまるでしていなかった」「上海付近では日本軍の戦いを何度もみたけれども、民間人をやたらに殺すということはなかった。漢口市内では日本軍は中国人を処刑したが、それでも規模はごく小さかった。南京はそれまでの日本軍の行動パターンとは違っていたのです。南京市民にとっても、それはまったく予期せぬ事態でした」と、伝聞等による推定の数として南京では数千の民間人の殺害があったと述べた。また南京の『安全地区』には10万人ほどおり、そこに日本軍が入ってきたが、中国兵が多数まぎれこんで民間人を装っていたことが民間人が殺害された原因であるとしている。またニューヨーク・タイムズは「安全区に侵入した中国便衣兵が乱暴狼藉を働いて日本軍のせいにした」とも報道した.

There is also what is know as the Magee film in which depicts killing of one citizen during the entire seize of Nanking. If there were the alleged 300,000 they would have seen much much more.

-29 ( +4 / -33 )

“the killing of a large number of noncombatants, looting and other acts occurred..."

はい、残念ですが...

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Pretty weak Japan

15 ( +19 / -4 )

Abe and the LDP are just like deniers of the Nazi Holocaust. Blacklist, ban them from your countries.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Nanking is the Japanese name for Nanjing during its occupation. As was Peking for Beijing.

There is a negative connotation to many Chinese people when the Japanese names for these cities are used. It has been Nanjing and Beijing in China and internationally for quite some time.

Peking Duck, on the other hand...

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

Might want to brush up on both your Wade-Giles and Japanese, my friend.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

but it had no issue submitting a request for and getting approval for the documents related to Japanese POWs in Siberian labor camps I suppose documents relating to America and Australians in Japanese POW camps is out of the question also!? seriously the hypocrisy of Japan is thicker than molasses

17 ( +18 / -2 )

It never fails to astound me how seemingly deluded they can be about this (or similar) issues? Like honestly, saying it's "regrettable" and trying to bleat that UNESCO isn't being "neutral and fair"....umm, how exactly? Merely because it disturbs the wa and exposes Japan's unpleasant history, is that somehow being "unfair"? No, it isn't.

Not to mention that while they're moaning about this on the one hand, they're happy to have and applaud entries such as Japanese POWs in Siberia or kamikaze fighters etc.

It truly boggles my mind how they seem to think they can actually do this and expect people to think they're being unbiased.

18 ( +20 / -3 )

And yet, they think showing the kamikaze as HEROES and misunderstood people should be recognized by UNESCO through old letters? The difference, of course, being the kamikaze were duped into dying by their own government. The Chinese were just plain massacred.

Shame on Japan!! And boy are they proving their stupidity with this and objecting to the sex-slave movie!!

24 ( +28 / -5 )

Japan had two entries recognised by UNESCO on Friday ... the second [was] a tranche of documents related to the internment of Japanese prisoners in Siberian labor camps after the end of World War II.

The GOJ is doing a disservice to the people of Japan by making the nation seem underhanded in its dealings and shameless in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Essentially, the message here is that the GOJ wants suffering endured by Japanese people to be recognized, but does not want suffering caused by Japanese people to be recognized. This country thrives on internationally evangelizing the suffering of Japanese people (ie. Hiroshima monuments, exhibitions etc. all over the globe), but fights tooth and nail when Japan's warts are exposed.

I wonder, is there even a single incident that the GOJ would accept as being part of the UNESCO Memory of the World register where Japan played the role of perpetrator/aggressor in an atrocity? I think not.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

@Japan Yesterday: Nanking is the Japanese name for Nanjing during its occupation. As was Peking for Beijing.

not true. Nanking and Peking are spellings according to the Wade-Giles romanization system. Nanjing and Beijing are spellings for the Hanyu Pinyin system.

12 ( +13 / -2 )

Japan's suffering has always been mostly self-inflicted, yet they whine constantly, every year. The suffering of others? "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil". We know what species said that lol

15 ( +19 / -5 )

Even Abe and his crew can't whitewash over this:

In 1937, the Osaka Mainichi Shimbun and the Tokyo Nichi Nichi Shimbun covered a "contest" between two Japanese officers, Toshiaki Mukai and Tsuyoshi Noda, in which the two men vied to be the first to kill 100 people with a sword. The competition took place en route to Nanking, directly prior to the infamous "Nanking Massacre" ...

Both officers supposedly surpassed their goal during the heat of battle, making it impossible to determine which officer had actually won the contest. Therefore, they decided to begin another contest, with the aim being 150 kills. The Nichi Nichi headline pertaining to the event read "'Incredible Record' [in the Contest to] Behead 100 People—Mukai 106 – 105 Noda—Both 2nd Lieutenants Go Into Extra Innings".

22 ( +24 / -3 )

Ok now let's register the massacre of 65 million Chinese slaughtered by China under Mao during the cultural revolution. Adding the quote "political power comes out of the barrel of a gun" -Mao. Oh wait that's right China is one of the main 5 states that rule the UN. Never mind.

-18 ( +7 / -24 )

Heaven forbid that UNESCO omit any mention of the atom bombs... Japan, grow up and stop embarrassing yourselves. Your demands that other countries omit any mention of the sex slaves in their history books - and now this, is simply embarrassing, and disgusting. Learn from Germany's fine example and face your past like a mature adult

19 ( +21 / -3 )

Grow up, Kishida!

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Japanese politicians need to learn that using words which translate to "regrettable" have very little power overseas. I "regret" not buying butter for my toast yesterday, but I doubt that will change the attitude of politicians.

15 ( +17 / -3 )

The truth hurts.

16 ( +17 / -2 )

Outrageous two-faced political manipulation attempt by Japan. Shameful.

15 ( +16 / -2 )

Bunch of pathetic right wing oyajis in positions of power are once again giving a bad image to the whole country. "Very regrettable " indeed.

11 ( +15 / -3 )

And Japan is fair and neutral eh? If Japanese say it didn't happen, it didn't happen right? Grow up.

9 ( +13 / -5 )

what is truth? it will be interesting to see, i pulled this from Unesco's site- the actual documents are not available yet - the first part would be interesting, the second part read with a grain of salt (victors run war crime trials) but there will be some information in it. third part i would not believe as it is a set of documents created by a group that was not part of the struggle.

Documents of Nanjing Massacre

Documentary heritage submitted by China for inclusion in the Memory of the World Register in 2014.

The documents consist of three parts: the first part concerns the period of the massacre (1937-1938), the second part is related to the post-war investigation and trials of war criminals documented by the Chinese National Government’s Military Tribunal (1945-1947), and the third part deals with files documented by the judiciary authorities of the People’s Republic of China (1952-1956).

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Japan should just shut up about these things and nobody would notice. Nobody pays attention to these things. Anyway, Japan is being hypocritical. They liked it that the records of cruel life of the Japanese imprisoned in Siberia were also included, but Russia is not complaining.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

The above comments against Japan's hypocrisy and self-righteousness and lack of remorse and whitewashing are fair and logical and moral.

As I always stated, Japan, a democratic and moral nation? ("superior than China" the Jpn people like to boast) is nothing but truly hideous when it comes to such issues and esp when belittling the victim nations and tens of millions of Chinese/Korean/Asian victims etc. Not even a single monument for the countless mass victims of such unimaginable atrocities.

Well, this is one "monument", and from Unesco, which speaks volumes. Japan has to now face its own demons and eat its disgusting pride and show respect and remorse truly by erecting its own monument for these victims and to teach the truth and learn a hard lesson about whitewashing history.

Ishihara, Hashimoto, that Nagoya mayor, Abe, Suga and their History-deniers and normal Jpn people who ignore or deny the truth must be pooping in their pants from now on as they now look even more pathetic representing a so-called nation "ruled by values, truth, justice and law." How will they ever sleep at night again?

Ishihara should take this to his grave... esp for all the unspeakable things he said that gravely insulted and wounded more the victims. Either way he knows they are awaiting him and his kind on the other side...

For now, the victims' souls must feel some relief now with this global important Unesco recognition.

Next should be international cities erecting monuments for these victims, like for the sex slaves.

(Korea too is now preparing to ask Unesco to honor/recognize the memory of the sex slaves/comfort women.)

13 ( +16 / -4 )

History matters in a sense that we can learn from it and better ourselves. We can only do this if we look at it objectively. If we embrace the pride of our heritage we must also embrace the shame. We are descended from imperfect humans who had moments of greatness but also had many moments of depravity, selfishness, greed, cruelty etc...etc... The truth is actually more interesting than the comforting nationalist narratives we were fed as children.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

akkk1:

Nanking and Peking are spellings according to the Wade-Giles romanization system.

No, they're not.

Peking/Beijing in WG is Pei3-ching1. In Beijing, the consonant at the start of the second syllable was never pronounced like a k (or g) during the 20th century, unlike some nearby provinces. The 'k' comes from older dialects, not helped by the fact that Europeans used to corrupt local pronunciations.

But back on topic. This really is petty and hypocritical. It's like the Russians complaining about the Japanese UNESCO documents on Japanese prisoners in Siberia and the Germans complaining that Auschwitz should never have been registered with UNESCO. The whole world outside Japan isn't going to give a d*mn. Another reason for Suga to have a hissy fit as has been happening these past few weeks.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

While I admire Japan in many ways, I find this logic of craving world recongnition for all things nippon but denying any past wrong doings and going bizerk when the outside world mentions it to be a bit strange. I have read books by experts on Japan and they mention that Japan doesnt use the same logic as the rest of the world. Many of the encounters I have had with Japanese make me believe this is true. One of the first steps towards closure is aknowledgement. The apologist will say "but how many times have they apologized already!" Ok, agreed, but when somebody erects a memorial in california or in china, why the need to go bizerk? Arent there memorials in nagasaki and self pity month long TV shows every August? Should the U.S. tell Japan to stop remembering the A bomb event or take down the memorials? It would be unthinkable. I cant understand where this logic comes from, perhaps somebody can explain.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

second a tranche of documents related to the internment of Japanese prisoners in Siberian labor camps after the end of World War II.

Surely, you can't begrudge a Nanking archive after this...

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Is this another case of Japan trying to hide from its past? The Nanjing massacre happened and there were upwards of 200,000 people killed within the few weeks of the assault. This massacre has been conveniently erased from Japanese high school textbooks and the Japanese 'scholars' are quoting numbers as low as 20,000 people killed in the onslaught. I'm not sure which is a more shameful fact for Japan. The fact they carried out this atrocity or the fact they keep downplaying and hiding it.

14 ( +17 / -4 )

The only thing can be concluded in this massacre denial event is the Japanese politicans like the Abe clique has no humanity and no compassion to others. Thats why Chinese boycott the Japanese bid for a permanent seat in the security council. In on the perspective of japan' s benefit , such a ruthless denial of Nanjiang massacre is not a boost of Japan image.

8 ( +12 / -5 )

@praack ...who do you suggest investigate into the number massacred? It happened in China. Maybe Iceland or Norway could give us the numbers dws.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

UNESCO is doing things over the edge and is destroying its reputation as world body to preserve human heritage and is engaging in politicizing its function by classifying war atrocities as world heritage and is inflaming sensitive issues that are being subject of ongoing dispute between scholars. Nanjing massacre was investigated and some perpetrators was executed but why UNESCO making this world heritage is totally unknown mystery.

-18 ( +6 / -23 )

25psotOCT. 10, 2015 - 09:28PM JST UNESCO is doing things over the edge and is destroying its reputation as world body to preserve human heritage and is engaging in politicizing its function by classifying war atrocities as world heritage and is inflaming sensitive issues that are being subject of ongoing dispute between scholars. Nanjing massacre was investigated and some perpetrators was executed but why UNESCO making this world heritage is totally unknown mystery.

What I don't understand, and it would seem most on this board and around the world, is why Japan and you believe instating the Naking Massacre in UNESCO documents is a 'political' issue. Who says it is 'political'? It is historical fact accepted by scholars around the world and as real as Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Kamakazi pilots and the Holocaust. The only problem is in the minds of right wing Japanese who want to believe that Japan is not guilty of any wrong doing. All it is doing is degrading the international image of Japan as a responsible and compassionate member of the international community - I love Japan and I am so sad to see this happening.

18 ( +20 / -3 )

“It is extremely regrettable that a global organisation that should be neutral and fair entered the documents in the Memory of the World register, despite the repeated pleas made by the Japanese government,” the foreign ministry said in a statement.

Japan is in the wrong, but, this is what AFP calls "lashing out"? Melodramatic much?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

25psot: "Nanjing massacre was investigated and some perpetrators was executed but why UNESCO making this world heritage is totally unknown mystery."

Only a mystery to those whose shame knows no bounds. Are you saying that Auschwitz should not be recognized under UNESCO? More relative to the thread, though, are you saying that Japan should also not have the kamikaze pilots letters/post cards or other things related to them brought up, or the documents about Japanese held by Russia in Siberian camps? The only ones making this political are the Japanese government and posters such as yourself.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

The next things to be applied in UNESCO including the Marco Polo bridge incident of who shot first, Japanese army Unit731biological warfare, the Japanese army uses of chemical weapons and those mustard gas shells injuring Chinese civilians.... etc. It is time to dig out the old wounds and blame.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Did Abe etc have permission of all Japanese to enable Nanjing massacre more famous again?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Why stop at Naking? What about listing the sex slaves, Laha Airfield massacre, Aexandra Hospital massacre, Palawan massacre, Nauro occupation massacre, Akikaze massacre, Indian Ocean Raid 1944 massacre, Sook Ching massacre 1943, The Death Railway, Manila massacre .... etc.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

The massacre was documented by John Rabe, German representative of the Third Reich in the city at the time. He set up a safety zone to try save what he could. What's to deny? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe#Diary_entries

10 ( +12 / -2 )

The one SURE way to make absolutely certain that Japan's skeletons in the closet remain cemented in people's minds is to deny that these things happened.

Abe can "apologise" for as long as his breath produces condensation on a mirror, but that won't change a thing.

What people want to know is that it's not going to happen again in the future.

And with Abe's fascistic "secrecy act," "reinterpretation" of the Japanese constitution, rewriting history and sucking up to the US military, promising to build a huge spanking new super base in Okinawa, this is just what people are worrying about.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

As I wrote before, Abe and his rightist LDP friends have a genius for making enemies and turning off people. They really did it this time by attacking UNESCO for achieving documents related to Imperial Japan's Rape of Nanjing.

To begin with, this is not "politics." It is history. It is well documented history. It is history that is also readily accessible and cannot be escaped, no matter how much Abe and his gang want to obscure the facts in official textbooks or keep it out of NHK news or ipso facto deny the Rape of Nanjing in protests like the one this article is about.

Everyone with even half a brain knows the Rape of Nanjing happened and the Japanese did it. It is history. By complaining about UNESCO archiving this history, Abe & Co. are putting themselves in the same position as neo-Nazi Holocaust deniers.

You know who is going to pick up the flack for this nonsense? Not Abe and his assorted goons. It will be ordinary Japanese traveling abroad.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

The almost 4 million people murdered by Mao Tse Tung should be included.

-14 ( +6 / -20 )

The Abe clique see the UNESCO is in a conspiracy with China to humiliate Japan which is tge definition of 'Politicalrized' they mean and everything Japan has submitted were 'Pityful' they mean. That is their logic

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Wow. Lot's of declarative sentences here with different numbers and different "truths," none with any references. Even the article is anonymous.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

What Moonrakers said. You took the words out of my keyboard on your comment!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Oh wait that's right China is one of the main 5 states that rule the UN. Never mind.

And China is suzerain of UN chief country, SK.

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

Wow - talk about bitting the hand that feeds you.

Japan is or was now UNESCO's largest donor of Money.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

This is just one of many actions shows the past Japanese so-called apologies are insincere and that it will continue to cover-up and whitewash the atrocities it had committed in around Asia, including South Korea and China.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Of course UNESCO is not being truthful and fair. If they were, they'd register the heroic acts of the Imperial Japanese Army in Nanking in Memory of the World......cough cough

6 ( +7 / -1 )

tinawatanabe: "And China is suzerain of UN chief country, SK."

So, you deny the atrocities, tina?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

"a senior executive at Japan’s publicly funded TV broadcaster NHK denied the massacre..."

Regardless of one's opinion, speaking in an official capacity (if he was) when you're supposed to be head of a public broadcasting company is a no-no. I don't expect BBC to say if the Liberal Democrats are better than Labour, nor PBS to denounce Bush or Obama.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Japan is slowly turning toward their WW2 selves, the govt leaders do not grasp that power and leadership come with facing yourselves honestly rather than saving face and lying to do so.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Boy oh boy a TRULY embarrassing day to be living in Japan! Japans politicians have NO SHAME!

Someone mentioned about Japans logic being different, sorry its not different, its just LACKING, same with common sense, not too common wrt to J-politicians I am afraid

Japan REALLY knows how to make itself look REALLY bad, way to go, NOT!

Japan face & admit your damned history!

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Like Turkey denying the massacre of Aremenians, Israel denying it kills Palestinians, the British playing down the massacre of Indians (20th century). All nationalist parties like to sustain the myth of their nations superiority over others. In the end we are all human beings, with our weaknesses and our strengths, not matter what our genes are.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Hello Triring:

"One citizen killed" you say. You are an example of why the world still cannot quite believe or trust Japan, to this day. How does this come about? Brainwashing in the Japanese education system is the short answer, although there's even more to it than that I suppose.

Listen...there were foreign residents in Nanjing at that time. Do you understand? NEUTRAL WITNESSES!! Among the many quotes you could find (if you bothered to actually look for those inconvenient things known as facts), one that stands out for me is from an American woman who was there and said she believed she'd witnessed the Japanese army commit every crime imaginable to humanity on that one day. Does that help put things into context for you?

12 ( +15 / -3 )

@gokai_wo_manekuOCT. 10, 2015 - 08:31PM JST Japan should just shut up about these things and nobody would notice. Nobody pays attention to these things. Anyway, Japan is being hypocritical. They liked it that the records of cruel life of the Japanese imprisoned in Siberia were also included, but Russia is not complaining.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;''

They are not Nationalist. They are group to ensure Japan smear campaigns will not be ignored .

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Boy oh boy a TRULY embarrassing day to be living in Japan! Japans politicians have NO SHAME!

GW -- spot on. And the number of such days seems to be rapidly increasing, especially since Abe and his nationalist buddies took over. Very glad I am now on the outside looking in. I got tired of paying taxes to support such kind of governmental "thinking".

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Surely they didn't think the world forgot about the Nanking massacre? You can't sweep history under the carpet, Japan.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Was this reported in the local press? If so then I hope the average Joe citizen understands how embarrassing their current government is. This protest puts Japan in such a bad light. No wonder the country has so many problems. While the world moves on Japan and its current government wants to relive its "glorious past".

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@Whatsnext: Ok now let's register the massacre of 65 million Chinese slaughtered by China under Mao during the cultural revolution. Adding the quote "political power comes out of the barrel of a gun" -Mao. Oh wait that's right China is one of the main 5 states that rule the UN. Never mind.

You're comparing apples to oranges son. What Japan did was a purposely directed military assault. The Cultural Revolution was a failed social/political movement. Big difference. But if you're gonna go that route, then what about the genocidal acts against its indigenous population by the US?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I have a theory that although these things are said, with a straight face, on the world stage, globally public, that the motivations to say them and decisions to do some are primarily Local.

That is to say these old cronies are baying to their peers, have no concept or concern about the impact of their words globally and to the Japanese people, and they hope only to impress their own and increase their standing in the moment.

The alternative is that perhaps MacArthur was correct in describing Japan at the end of the war as a spoilt 12yo child... and they have not yet grown up much.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@triring

That is literally the dumbest thing I've ever read.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

This just makes Japan look bad.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

john_holthouse

Listen...there were foreign residents in Nanjing at that time. Do you understand? NEUTRAL WITNESSES!!

In which no one had saw an actual massacre. What they saw were sporadic events which they not know the details behind it and heard a lot of rumors most that were found false or miss led by locals.

Tomizawa Shigenobu who was part of the The International Committee for Nanking Safety Zone states "日本軍入城前までに国際委員会は残留していた南京住民20万人余りのほぼ全員を安全区に収容したため、安全区以外の場所には住民はほとんどいない状態となった" basically stating that most all 200,000 chinese citizens that were left behind found shelter within the safety zone that the International committee had set up and there were virtually no other chinese citizens left behind beyond that zone and those 200,000 were left untouched from the IJA troops so who are the so called 300,000 that were allegedly killed?

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

@triting

Your argument simply doesn't hold up. We're taught about Nanking in every respectable academic institution in the world, because there is absolutely no doubt that it happened. Yes there are issues with how China politicizes it, but that doesn't detract from the very real fact that the massacre occurred and deserves those people who died there deserve to be honored and remembered. Your infantile argument betrays your own racism and nationalism, it's easier for you to believe that everyone in China is a liar than to face the horrific truth about Japan's war crimes.

Fortunately the more you argue, the more your argument reveals itself to be an apparition, just a ghost in the fog with no discernible weight or power, an ill wind that blows no minds. I'm going to get back to going about my day now and living in the real world. I would advise that you spend the day educating yourself on world history, preferably from a non-Japanese source so that you can gain a more objective insight into global affairs.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

No sorry but academics around the world does do much study and most all documents are in JAPANESE.

We already know many of the western journalists that wrote about it was in ROC's pockets as well.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

You're grasping at straws Triring.

Fortunately, the world already knows the truth, and isn't stupid enough to listen to a bunch of right-wing revisionists from Japan who try to deny the truth.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

I suppose I could google it, but why doesn't the story identify this NHK executive? Anyway, Japan would be best advised to STFU on this one. Whether it's 300,000 or only 256,722 doesn't make much difference. Complaining about it only plays into the hands of those in China who want to divert their population's attention from the dictatorship they live under.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Whether it's 300,000 or only 256,722 doesn't make much difference.

I've said much the same thing many times. The right-wingers can't see the forest for the trees. They'd rather make their country look bad, trying to argue 'well it was bad, it just wasn't that bad', instead of trying to find a way to move forward for the better of their country.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Japan is Unesco's largest donor?, yet Unesco chose carefully and honorably to support the truth and history (despite Japanese pressure)... that says it all. The world stands for the truth and gave justice ( to the tens of millions of Chinese victims of Nanking massacre and of the Japanese atrocities as a whole) except Japan which is exhibiting more and more signs of facism intoxication.

@triring, it's a done deal: the world has rightfully branded Japan a liar for whitewashing and obstructing the truth (like the grasping-at-straws comments from you, Suga, JFM, etc) as the Nanking massacre documents and evidences are very clear and compelling objective evidences that more than met the high standards and criteria of international and even Japanese researchers. You can dream all you want, but you should quit the babbling and moaning in public before you injure more yourself in both the intellectual sense and integrity as a human being.

Like it or not, Nanking is one step closer to being equal to Auschwitz in terms of history and crimes against humanity, and the world respects all these victims and wants to never forget this history (except for the scared-of-the-truth Japanese).

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Is the UNESCO funded by Japan ? And that was a kind of bribery that organisation must help denial of Nanjiang massacre? How corrputed is the GOJ, another evidence of Japan is not a responsible nation!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

UNESCO had branded themselves as dopes and it's not the first time.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

@triring , nah, as you can see everybody here prefers to give credence to Unesco and its objective international committee and the countless objective scholars and historians (including Japanese) than to give any serious thought to immature emotional and subjective and self-righteous fascist whitewashing and excuses and moaning from Suga, Abe, and you. The world is not gullible nor care about your propaganda.

Give it up, you had your chance. Respect the victims and their rights and Unesco's objectivity.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

TriringOCT. 11, 2015 - 03:04PM JST UNESCO had branded themselves as dopes and it's not the first time.

Because....? They don't do want Japan wants? Like including archives that show Japan's good side only? MacArthur was right a along about Japan.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@Pukey: Thanks for the correction.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan is a top funder of UNESCO - looks like Japanese bribery techniques are not working this time.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

So what next Japan is going to lash again? Chinese bribery of UNESCO lead to the propaganda of Nanking massacre served for CCP interest whom they were not the ruling party back in 1937? Or the japanese army has served for good will to save the Chinese people from Chiang kai shek tyranny?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Why is Japan lashing out at unesco? They should send their scholars to Nanjing and debate the issue there among the Chinese in a similar way they approached US Textbook publisher McGraw regarding the comfort women issue.

describing it as “extremely regrettable” and calling for the process to be reformed.

How is archiving historical documents an "extremely regrettable" matter?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Who writes history? Who compiles and critiques it? Who gets to rewrite it?

Why?

Forget this issue. In the grand scheme of things, the ability to discredit and revise the accounts of eyewitnesses means that any fact can be changed for political purposes at any time. The Chinese by no means are the only nation doing this, but they are good at it. From whitewashing Tien An Men to changing the age of their Olympic athletes on the fly and in archives. It is a nasty trick they play on their own people, and they have no compunction about doing it to make Japan look bad.

Now. Why did I say forget this issue? Because sooner or later, China is going to manipulate information on YOUR country against YOUR interests. As long as it plays to their domestic audience, they will make up their own history. They have done it before and they will do it again. I feel no need to "defend" Japanese actions in Nanking because it is not the issue. The issue is this: why can't we trust China to protect and preserve the truth? Why should UNESCO be used as a rubber stamp on one side of a controversial topic?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Too funny!

Japan thinks documents regarding the Kamikaze pilots (suicide bombers who murdered thousands of people) are worthy of UNESCO heritage listing, but listing of documents regarding massacre of Chinese civilians by Japanese soldiers is 'extremely regrettable'. Hahahahahahahaha Japan you funny you!

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Japan is a top funder of UNESCO - looks like Japanese bribery techniques are not working this time.

Which means UNESCO is being truthful and fair. Although, Japan's version of "truthful and fair" would be funding a lot to UNESCO in the hopes that they'd have enough influence to register things like the Kamikaze pilots, but not any "extremely regrettable" things in history, like the Nanking Massacre. If there's one example of something extremely regrettable, it should be forcing pilots to dive to their deaths, or just generally the whole aggression and crimes they've done in much of Asia.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Why didnt GOJ not protesting the above painting of Nanjiang massacre? It looks scary and it was painted by the painter's pure imaginations. Two Japanese soldiers watching and smiling at a whole pile of Chinese civilians they murdered in Nanjiang, was that a kind of defamation of japan ?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

elephant200OCT. 12, 2015 - 05:47AM JST Why didnt GOJ not protesting the above painting of Nanjiang massacre? It looks scary and it was painted by the painter's pure imaginations.

How do you know? Are you even aware of the cruelty and inhumanity committed by Japanese forces in the Pacific war?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

elephant200: "Two Japanese soldiers watching and smiling at a whole pile of Chinese civilians they murdered in Nanjiang, was that a kind of defamation of japan ?"

Truth hurts.

" It looks scary and it was painted by the painter's pure imaginations. "

How do you know it was not based on fact? Paintings of the atomic bombings are also 'pure imaginations', but it does not mean they are not rooted in the fact that the events were horrible, does it? I guess if you want to be a little more realistic then behind the two Japanese smiling at the murder of a bunch of Chinese there should be a few burning documents and chuckling that they can just deny it later. You want more realism, after all, right?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

5SpeedRacer5OCT. 12, 2015 - 02:01AM JST Who writes history? Who compiles and critiques it? Who gets to rewrite it? Why? Forget this issue. In the grand scheme of things, the ability to discredit and revise the accounts of eyewitnesses means that any fact can be changed for political purposes at any time. The Chinese by no means are the only nation doing this, but they are good at it. From whitewashing Tien An Men to changing the age of their Olympic athletes on the fly and in archives. It is a nasty trick they play on their own people, and they have no compunction about doing it to make Japan look bad. Now. Why did I say forget this issue? Because sooner or later, China is going to manipulate information on YOUR country against YOUR interests. As long as it plays to their domestic audience, they will make up their own history. They have done it before and they will do it again. I feel no need to "defend" Japanese actions in Nanking because it is not the issue. The issue is this: why can't we trust China to protect and preserve the truth? Why should UNESCO be used as a rubber stamp on one side of a controversial topic?

Yes, except your argument falls flat because information about the Nainking massacre and Tien An Men etc come from world western historians, not Chinese historians.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

igloobuyer: "Yes, except your argument falls flat because information about the Nainking massacre and Tien An Men etc come from world western historians, not Chinese historians."

Ouch! It's funny how those who 'feel no need to defend Japan' don't even bother reading about the information before jumping to Japan's defense by immediately attacking those Japan has been attacking with its horrors and atrocities and to later deny them.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Current Japanese government is complaining, not necessarily Japan. This is not surprising as the current Japanese government is dominated by members of Nippon Kaigi, a group (organization) that denies Nanjing, comfort women etc, and wants to restore the Tenno to deity status, remove the vote for women, refuse rights to LGBT etc. Apart from right wing politicians many Shinto priests are members. Perhaps, if they thought they had a chance to achieve it their aims are a Shinto State. Since I discovered the existence of Nippon Kaigi I have found that hardly any of the Japanese people I know have heard it. The current Japanese government's opinion on Nanjing is unreliable and so is an official Chinese government one but there must be some responsible, reliable and sincere people out there (journalists, historians, witnesses etc) who can give us some unbiased facts.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Such kind of massacre had happened in Nanking. China army murdered many citizens of Nanking, who are against them.After, Japan entered to Nanking and fought with China army. So, it is true that China and Japan did a battle at Nanking. After war, China government prepared many photos to create a evidences of "Massacre by Japan army".Many photos came from non-related ones, some are the photos that Japanese are killed by Chinese, for contrary, some photos, same person is acting "killing person" or "dead" as both of Japanese or China army. Some of them are fromporn magazine of Shanghai (used as evidence of "rape").At that time, there had a boom of SM porn, torturing in Shanghai.So, needles to say, all evidences are very stupid but it always existed as a legend, because it was used for one of lecture of War Guilt Information Program, held by GHQ of USA. So, it is as so. I will not say that "Japan was good". Japan was doing invasion for other country, as same as Europe. And things such as "shooting to citizens" had happened in Japan army (as same as US and Europe). But it does not mean that China can create or add new history. History always must be as it used to be.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

According to the judgment by the International Military Tribunal for the Far East in 1948:

Estimates made at a later date indicate that the total number of civilians and prisoners of war murdered in Nanking and its vicinity during the first six weeks of the Japanese occupation was over 200,000. That these estimates are not exaggerated is borne out by that fact that burial societies and other organizations counted more than 155,000 bodies which they buried. They also reported that most of those were bound with their hands tied behind their backs. These figures do not take into account those persons whose bodies were destroyed by burning or by throwing them into the Yangtze River or otherwise disposed of by the Japanese.

Read articles from contemporary newspapers and eye witness reports at:

http://www.readex.com/readex-report/nanjing-atrocities-reported-u-s-newspapers-1937-38

2 ( +5 / -3 )

UNESCO had branded themselves as dopes and it's not the first time. and the when was the first time was it when they accepted documents of Japanese POWs in Siberian labor camps!?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What is Japan's problem?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The UNESCO should gave credits to Russia's POW treatment in Siberia, that was the only real corrections of people had been brainwashed with fascist ideas transformed to be good people with most of them never dared to commit aggressions again. It was not a tragedy but a treasure for Japan. Russia welldone!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Will anybody here be kind enough to provide me with some online sources so that I can learn reasons by which both Japan and China support their opinions respectively? Pictures, documents etc...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Well done UNESCO

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It is extremely regrettable Japan or should I say ABE administration & LDP time after time denies these horrors caused by Imperial Japan ever existed. After what they have done it truly is an insult to a deep wound that stop healing ever since Mr Abe took office.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"Now. Why did I say forget this issue? Because sooner or later, China is going to manipulate information on YOUR country against YOUR interests. As long as it plays to their domestic audience, they will make up their own history. They have done it before and they will do it again. I feel no need to "defend" Japanese actions in Nanking because it is not the issue. The issue is this: why can't we trust China to protect and preserve the truth? Why should UNESCO be used as a rubber stamp on one side of a controversial topic?"

They are both cut from the same cloth, this is like two brothers fighting.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The issue is this: why can't we trust China to protect and preserve the truth? Why should UNESCO be used as a rubber stamp on one side of a controversial topic?"

Yes, exactly right. But the people on here hate Japan, so they will give thumbs down, always

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I have been told that the population of Nanjing at the time was 200,000 people. So Japan would have had to kill everyone 1.5 times to reach level claimed in these documents. Something definitely happened, and it was terrible, horrible. NO one disputes that. But I believe a major source of this protest by Japan is that the numbers are grossly fabricated. Killing 1000 people for 300 days by rape and torture is just not fathomable. Something terrible happened. No doubt. But getting history "right" is also important, especially for organizations such as UNESCO.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

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