politics

Japan, Mongolia to cooperate on 'Free and Open Indo-Pacific'

27 Comments
By MARI YAMAGUCHI

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27 Comments
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Nice photo and good move for world cooperation.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

China is pushing countries to align against itself at record pace. Their loans and investment can buy out a few countries but once the coffers run dry it will be a different story. The Inner Mongolia language ban would also have offended ethnic Mongols to a great extent.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Don’t mess with China! Australia is already facing the consequences as China has banned beef, barley and wine from Australia! This will affect them in the months ahead as the economy will struggle! Same thing with Japan who rely a lot on the Chinese tourists. Department stores, tour companies, airlines, airport workers, restaurant workers are all suffering and losing jobs since the tourist from China stopped coming due to the corona virus! The US can afford to have a trade war with China and vice verse but other countries should understand that they are not in a position to do so. The US will never bail them out as President Trump has clearly said many times “ America first “ ! As much as people hate the Chinese they need to understand that their own very existence depends on the Chinese in terms of earning money ( employment sector ) since every industry is interconnected and affected directly or indirectly by the Chinese!

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

Standing so close to each other without a mask while elbow bumping instead of hand shaking doesn’t make much sense! The whole elbow bumping concept looks weird and childish...Bowing is a million times better!

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Don’t mess with China! Australia is already facing the consequences as China has banned beef, barley and wine from Australia! This will affect them in the months ahead as the economy will struggle! Same thing with Japan who rely a lot on the Chinese tourists. Department stores, tour companies, airlines, airport workers, restaurant workers are all suffering and losing jobs since the tourist from China stopped coming due to the corona virus! The US can afford to have a trade war with China and vice verse but other countries should understand that they are not in a position to do so. The US will never bail them out as President Trump has clearly said many times “ America first “ ! As much as people hate the Chinese they need to understand that their own very existence depends on the Chinese in terms of earning money ( employment sector ) since every industry is interconnected and affected directly or indirectly by the Chinese!

Precisely! Senator Ted Cruz said that America is pursuing the Cold War showdown with China, not a hot war. He acknowledges the fact that China has become a monster that is very difficult to deal with. The monster is entrenched inside the Western world as the perfect parasite, and it is hard to remove within a few years.

Meanwhile, Japan has been completely infested with this "parasite". As you said, Japanese service economy collapsed after the news on Wuhan outbreak. Many Japanese tourist businesses, mostly owned by Chinese, are heavily affected or bankrupt. Not to mention that China is the second largest importer of Japanese goods as well.

I don't expect any LDP crony, even the legendary dumbass Taro Aso, dares to talk trash against China or call Xi Jinping the Pooh.

10 ( +22 / -12 )

 As much as people hate the Chinese they need to understand that their own very existence depends on the Chinese in terms of earning money ( employment sector ) since every industry is interconnected and affected directly or indirectly by the Chinese!

No time like the present to remove them from our economies. The reality is they need the west and its technologies more than the west need their cheap manufacturing. Without access to western tech and western markets China is nothing. The African and South American consumer markets are a tiny fraction of the EU, North America, Japan and South Korea. Australia with only 25 million people is, and no offense meant, not that important economically to China compared to over 400 million EU members or over 450 million in North America (US, Canada and Mexico). China might not miss Australia but losing the North American market will hurt them badly. As far as I am concerned I think the US at least should declare an outright trade, travel and communications embargo of China and ban the use of the US dollar and the US banking system for conducting trade with China.

9 ( +16 / -7 )

China might not miss Australia but losing the North American market will hurt them badly.

Without the resources China gets from Australia it would have no way to make all the good the world buys from it. China got over 62% of its total Iron ore imports from Australia in 2019. Without that it could not manufacture all its goods. Its steel industry would collapse.

New figures released on Wednesday show Australia supplied 46 per cent of China's LNG imports in the year to June, more than any other country and up from the previous year, just as demand for Australian iron ore has spiked.

Australia supplied a record 74 per cent of China's imported iron ore in June, according to trade figures, almost double the monthly average from 10 years ago.

Australia is the biggest supplier of LNG to China, as the trade war hurts US exports. Reuters

As the world's largest manufacturer and second biggest economy, China is also reliant on Australian coal and uranium to keep the lights on and its factories running, as the Communist Party seeks to maintain two decades of rising prosperity.

"China is in some respects more dependent on us than we are on them," said Ross Babbage, a former analyst at Australia's Office of National Assessments, the nation's peak intelligence agency.

https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/the-trade-war-is-making-china-more-reliant-on-australia-20190814-p52gyn

They dont sell Australia as much as they need to buy resources from us. Australia is a mid strength country but without its supplies at least one super power would lose its super fairly fast. That makes Australia very important to China whether it likes it or acknowledges it or not. Perhaps more so than any other single country.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

Didn’t Abe give a $200m present a few months ago.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

GOOD for the start. Please make peace inside China.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Don’t mess with China! Australia is already facing the consequences as China has banned beef, barley and wine from Australia! 

Yeah, yeah, yeah... heard it all before. You are about to learn you can't buy respect, and any "friends" you buy will be gone as soon as the going gets rough.

I don't expect any LDP crony, even the legendary dumbass Taro Aso, dares to talk trash against China or call Xi Jinping the Pooh.

Are you defending China, or Xi and his cronies? They are not the same. In fact, Xi is doing great damage to China and I expect his last days will be spent under arrest. And that's nothing to pooh-pooh about!

10 ( +18 / -8 )

Some people commenting here are simply without any intelligence or knowledge about how the world is relying on China. They just hate or dislike China are fail to understand the dynamics of trading and functioning economics. Bottom line is that China is strong and will continue to become stronger regardless of what the US does with the help of its puppets such as Japan and Australia ( recently ).

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

Some people commenting here are simply without any intelligence or knowledge about how the world is relying on China.

Some people do not understand the every nation depends on having good relations with a majority of large prosperous countries. North Korea does not and it is a basket case. If China thinks it is above the rest of the world and does not need anybody else to be prosperous then it is in for a rude shock when reality bites.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

It is hard for Mongolia being sandwiched between Russia and China and I have no doubt as a country it needs to be skillful with its diplomacy. It helps that Russia and China are natural enemies (even if relations may seem good at the moment).

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Are you defending China, or Xi and his cronies? They are not the same. In fact, Xi is doing great damage to China and I expect his last days will be spent under arrest. And that's nothing to pooh-pooh about!

Please be real. If China is actually vulnerable as many people here believe so, they would have been dead easily long ago. Unfortunately, the reality isn't so feasible for all of us. China held the world as its hostage through a multitude of underhanded strategies for decades, thanks to Nixon.

They borrowed money from all of the world's financial institutions to fund the inefficient OBOR, which China can threaten a default to collapse all world's financial institutions. China used its massive wealth on a buying spree to engage at the strategic M&A that can sway politics of the native nations - the best example is Australia where China is the biggest importer of Australian natural resources, and Australia is very fearful to turn against China. China also buys most of the critically important real estates in the world, and they can strategically influence the local politics and advance espionage worldwide - the best example is Canada, where Trudeau refuses to stand against China because the Chinese investors brought all important real estates in the nation.

I quoted the Senator Ted Cruz because he is right. This is a Cold War because it will take a long time to bring down China. This isn't easy as many people think since China is so entrenched in the developed and developing nations, everywhere!

Some people commenting here are simply without any intelligence or knowledge about how the world is relying on China. They just hate or dislike China are fail to understand the dynamics of trading and functioning economics. Bottom line is that China is strong and will continue to become stronger regardless of what the US does with the help of its puppets such as Japan and Australia ( recently ).

A lot of people lack pragmatism. They only see the world in black and white, while pragmatic people see both. I refer to Abe and Suga who really know where Japan is standing. Both of them haven't engaged at the direct confrontation against China because Japan doesn't have the necessary strength without the support from the USA.

Even with Trump on their side, Japan is becoming dependent on China more than ever. The Japanese service economy is currently almost on collapse because of the lack of Chinese tourism. If China forbid all Chinese tourists entering Japan within more than 2 years, Japanese service economy will utterly go bankrupt. So no, LDP cronies may be ultranationalist and delusional but none of them dares to stand against Xi and China.

It will take two decades or more for the world to decouple from China effectively. It can be much quicker if Trump is absolutely serious, and the Democrats aren't afraid of Chinese lobbying money, and the Wall Streets doesn't suck up to the Chinese promise of opening the domestic market for foreigners.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Mongolia and Japan used to be one country, together with Korea and Vietnam, and the name is China.

And now they're not. And they prefer it this way. Hard luck China, live in the present not in the past.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Not only should Mongolia worry about the Indo-Pacific but should be worried about their own country. With so many Han Chinese living in Inner Mongolia, Mongolians and ethnic Mongolians should be careful that their country won't become another Tibet.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

China is strong and will continue to become stronger regardless of what the US does with the help of its puppets such as Japan and Australia ( recently ).

China is at its peak right now. This is as good as it gets for the Chinese. Demographic trends there ensure it will not continue to grow in the future the way it has. In another decade stagnation will set in as the size of the working age population shrinks (it peaked in 2014 and has shrunk since then) while the size of the elderly dependent population increases. The total Chinese population is also at its peak right now and will enter a long period of decline. The Chinese leadership is acutely aware of these trends too but are powerless to reverse them. Even with the two child policy rescinded years ago the fertility rate continues to decline, in line with other highly developed and heavily urbanized Asian nations. They probably won't have the economy to support the large military Xi Jinping desires. Meanwhile certain western nations that are immigrant friendly, such as Australia, Canada and the US in particular do not face the same demographic and economic pressures China and other Asian nations face. Even projections that show China's nominal GDP (not this PPP fiction many like to parrot) eclipsing that of the US show the trend as temporary. By the end of this century China's population will decline several hundreds of millions while not having achieved anything close to the GDP per capita found in Japan or the developed nations of the west.

In any event there are nations all over Asia chomping at the bit to replace China as the world's workshop. As Chinese labor becomes more expensive and the political conditions there become increasingly oppressive (consider how strongly businesses oppose Chinese attempts to stop VPN use) China becomes less and less attractive to do business in.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

If your long winded post is true Peter14 then it seems to me that Australia has more leverage over China than China has over Australia. China isn't the only market for what Australia has to sell but from what you claim, Australia is the primary source of China's resources from which it derives its wealth. How come white people cannot bargain hard like Asians can? My wife is from Shanghai and she brutalizes merchants and contractors, squeezing them for every penny in price reduction she can get. There seems to be a good reason the English language equates being stranded somewhere penniless as being "Shanghaied". Maybe the west needs to learn from this and start grinding the Chinese as hard as they grind us. Make them pay dearly for those resources. Tell them if they won't buy beef the price of iron ore will double. Fight fire with fire, don't be cowed by them.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Does Mongolia has a coast line?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

If your long winded post is true Peter14 then it seems to me that Australia has more leverage over China than China has over Australia.

LOL @Desert Tortoise. I bow to the king of the long winded posts.

Most of that post was taken verbatim from the website supplied. So most were not my words.

Having said that, the "current" position would seem to give Australia a potent weapon however to wield it Australia would have to be prepared to take the huge hit in exports. A weapon of last resort. One that would be tripped automatically in the event of a conflict that includes Australia. It is in China's interest to try to keep Australia out of any future conflict. But with the ANZUS treaty it would be impossible if they attack US bases or interests.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

"Australia is the primary source of China's resources from which it derives its wealth. "

Is that true or just a myth! I think the fact is the othedrwise: China is the primary destination of Australia's exports from which it(Oz) derives its wealth.......

Australia has no recession since 1990,it was because the exports to China! Ask "Kelvin Rudd" to get what is true!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Australia is the primary source of China's resources from which it derives its wealth. "Is that true or just a myth! I think the fact is the othedrwise: China is the primary destination of Australia's exports from which it(Oz) derives its wealth.

Both are true. Australia's biggest export market is China, that is no secret. The point is it is those very resourse exports that fuels China's manufacturing and run China's power plant and factories. It is a very symbiotic relationship and both sides would be greatly effected without the other. My point is one is a middle power and one is a super power. Meaning that the outcome of any cessation of trade between the two would in effect bring both nations economies crashing. Who has the bigger economy and more to lose?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"Who has the bigger economy and more to lose?"

I think it also depends on whether Australia can find alternative countries to export to and if China can find alternative countries to import from. Australia's natural resources will not be depleted any time soon but as Desert Tortoise said if a concerted effort is made to shut China out of the markets and the international banking system it will be China's loss more than Australia's.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Septim Dynasty I don't know why you quoted my post, as it had little to do with your comment. I am very familiar with China, and one of the best possible outcomes is for Xi to be overthrown in a CCP coup. He is hurting China. He is ironically helping the rest of the world by rushing his global domination fantasies before China is quite ready, If he was smarter and planned for the longer game, he would have played his hand out over another 20 years. By rushing, he is giving the world a chance to see what the end game is while they can still turn things around.

> Australia is very fearful to turn against China

And yet they are.

 China also buys most of the critically important real estates in the world, and they can strategically influence the local politics and advance espionage worldwide 

Real estate does not confer political power, otherwise Japan would have taken over the US in 1990. Land and businesses can and are nationalized when the people perceive the foreign pressure to be excessive. China will learn the same lessons other imperial powers learned. At some point they will either have to surrender their gains or send in troops to defend them. The latter will turn the world against them, as well as their own citizens against them. Chinese families are not going to send their only sons to die in foreign lands to protect the wealthiest Chinese.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Absolute bonkers. Mongolia is nowhere near the Indian Ocean or the Pacific Ocean. Let's invite Algeria too!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Mongolia is third behind Switzerland and Lichtenstein as a country with no ocean borders but has a large merchant marine, meaning ships which ply the seas flying the Mongolian flag. Hence matters of maritime navigation are a matter of concern.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I am very familiar with China, and one of the best possible outcomes is for Xi to be overthrown in a CCP coup. He is hurting China. He is ironically helping the rest of the world by rushing his global domination fantasies before China is quite ready, If he was smarter and planned for the longer game, he would have played his hand out over another 20 years. By rushing, he is giving the world a chance to see what the end game is while they can still turn things around.

There was an unsuccessful coup attempt by a PLA faction against Xi in late summer or early fall 2017. Three top generals went to prison for life and a fourth "committed suicide" while in pre-trial home arrest. There is unrest in the ranks because the support echelons seem to promote faster than the combat echelons, such that you have officers of senior rank in the support echelons who have been in the PLA fewer years than lower ranking officers in the combat echelons. Members of the nitty gritty combat echelons resent the fact that officers is cushy support echelons promote faster and outrank them.

China doesn't have another 20 years to wait. Their demographic trends are such that they face economic stagnation in the near future. Rightly or wrongly Xi apparently see things in a now or never basis. Still, he has so angered the world at China and stirred up internal emnities with the Uyghurs and now the Mongolians that another internal coup is probably not out of the question. Instead of smoothing out problems he seems to exacerbate them at every turn and it isn't helping China.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

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