politics

Japan on brink of IWC pullout after commercial whaling comeback blocked

123 Comments
By Denis Barnett

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© 2018 AFP

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.


123 Comments
Login to comment

One wonders why Japan invests so much money and effort in protecting its whaling industry while there is such low demand for the product. What a charade. What a waste.

37 ( +48 / -11 )

Japanese government's demand for approval of commercial whaling does not reflect the voices of Japanese citizens. We agree it is cruel and hunting and eating wild animals is anachronistic. Also, people are not much interested in consuming whale meat. It was the time when Japan was poor after the war and whale meat was an important source of protein for us. Above all, It does appeal to today's Japanese consumers. It does not taste good. We have many other delicious meat at super market sold at cheaper prices.

23 ( +31 / -8 )

Japan, your presence in the IWC will not be missed.

12 ( +23 / -11 )

What’s so “relevant” about their “research”?

Who benefits from those results?

As far as I know they are just collecting data about the whales population, age, how pollution affects them... So it seems ridiculous that a society so developed in other areas is claiming that the only way to get that information is by killing hundreds of them per year.

Japan might as well be honest and say “we want to profit from the resources that the whales provide (meat, oil...) or simply develop a way to do their research without killing.

18 ( +24 / -6 )

Unfortunate.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

One wonders why Japan invests so much money and effort in protecting its whaling industry while there is such low demand for the product. What a charade. What a waste.

To appease the far right lunatics who took this country to war and were then rehabilitated by and supported by the US to combat a looming leftward tilt. Ditto the inability to sign a peace treaty with the Russians 70 years on. As much as we loathe Abe, there are certain taboos one cannot entertain if you're running right-wing land. Nippon Kaigi would find another more willing slimeball to maintain the status quo.

18 ( +23 / -5 )

At least Japanese know their real friends now. Thank you:

Pacific and Caribbean island nations as well as Nicaragua and several African countries, including Morocco, Kenya and Tanzania, voted with Japan, as did Asian nations Laos and Cambodia. 

I am really angry at IWC organization, Japan should leave if they will not respect Japanese feelings .

-35 ( +9 / -44 )

IWC soon to be the IAWC should also police the conservation areas as it moves into full conservation mode and block Japanese ships. If Japan wants to hunt it will have to do it elsewhere

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Once again I quote this song: "Let 'em, let 'em go, if they don't wann stay, let 'em go......" (To the tunes of "Frozen").

Finally admit that it's not (only) done for research. And it looks like they (Japan) are following more and more in the footsteps of Trump: "If I don't like it, I just get out of it, quit, finish".

3 ( +9 / -6 )

At least Japanese know their real friends now. Thank you:

Pacific and Caribbean island nations as well as Nicaragua and several African countries, including Morocco, Kenya and Tanzania, voted with Japan, as did Asian nations Laos and Cambodia. 

I am really angry at IWC organization, Japan should leave if they will not respect Japanese feelings .

Japan’s presences won’t be missed at the IWC...go ahead and leave IWC because the world already knows where Japan’s interest lie. Did you even notice the friends that you mention are all poor and developing countries. They probably voted for Japan in order to get financial assistance...lol ! Don’t rely on their support because if other countries invest more in their development then they’ll vote for them in the future. You mentioned respecting Japan’s feelings??? What about the feelings of majority of the members in IWC? After all the vote was defeated 41-27! Do you actually eat whale meat? Majority of Japanese people don’t even eat whale meat. I guess that they are more civilized and educated. Therefore, there is no need for the Government to waste tax payers money in the whale hunting ( slaughtering) industry!

12 ( +20 / -8 )

I am really angry at IWC organization, Japan should leave if they will not respect Japanese feelings .

I agree.... International organizations are all there in order to respect and appreciate " Japan,s feelings" and support its agenda because Japan is special and unique. If they don,t to heck with them.

japanmonkey and jcapan....spot on.

12 ( +20 / -8 )

Whats ‘Regrettable’ is not being able to understand that this issue is simply not worth the time, effort nor resources in pursuing . Although the cries of the hypocrisy not being able to kill whales by the Japanese may hold some dry ground ( the way the rest of the world treats other animals is appalling too ) it’s a simple fact that most don’t really need nor want to eat whale meat. We should be going in the direction of trying to treat all sentient beings with more respect and compassion. Whales being beautiful and graceful kings of the sea have captured a large section of the hearts of the globe. Whether you like it or not , it is what it is. A rich nation fighting so hard to slaughter them is just never going to win on that front. It’s just not a good story and as we are stating to understand, people think in stories ,not in facts or statistics, stories.

They can and probably will ignore the decision, leave the IWC and try and continue trying to buy smaller nations votes and approval, but is it all really worth it? Of course NO ONE is ever particularly good at admitting they were wrong , that this is an unwinnable battle and changing course ( on anything!) so this issue will chug away while MUCH more pressing ones will go untouched and fester, Motainai to omouwa.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Japan should leave as obviously the government doesn’t agree with the majority of the countries.

Also, how important in life is the IWC?

David Varnes says Japans prescence wont be missed, but as it actually makes no difference to me, I have to agree.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Leave...who cares at least the Ministry of fisheries can openly be what they are an international paharahi. Make a Southern fisheries as a non fishing zone. And sink any vessel that encroach on that. God lord, they the ministry of fisheries no idea.... From their actions I think not, tuna almost extinct but they want more quota, consensus that taking whales is indefensible but yet they clench their fists and insist on crying like a petulant teenager that it's their right to fill freezers and force feed the unwatered blubber. And blatantly thumb their nose at the rest of the world. Good plan.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

I think there was an opportunity for compromise in formalizing the low numbers of whales that are killed now under a legal framework, instead of the loophole that Japan currently uses and Iceland and Norway ignore altogether.

There will be a split now and Japans demands, along with pro-whaling nations, will be far more egregious under a new whaling body that they form. If we have could said, ok you can take the low numbers now, 300 or so, legally, as the small amount of commercial whaling we allow under the IWC would that have been enough for compromise?

I think Australia's position should have been

Support and legitimization for very limited commercial whaling, on or about the same as what is currently taken under dodgy circumstances because clearly demand indicates, its enough. How many countries eat whale meat? count on one hand?

No takes from whale sanctuaries. Many of the anti-whaling countries have large territorial zones. Australia, U.S, E.U, even Russia sat on the fence. If they were aggressive enough in setting up whaling sanctuaries and policing it, it might be enough to ensure there numbers don't plummet again. Keep in mind all the other threats - ship collisions, sonar, micro-plastics and other plastics absolutely everywhere in the ocean, discarded fishing nets etc.

Funding for ongoing monitoring of numbers, scientific studies etc. Legit studies.

Could that have been a compromise? At the end of the day though, whaling doesn't stack up as an economic activity. It makes little sense beyond a niche activity, which is why I think this compromise could have been floated.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

IWC soon to be the IAWC should also police the conservation areas as it moves into full conservation mode and block Japanese ships. If Japan wants to hunt it will have to do it elsewhere

If Japan leaves the IWC then the IWC has no authority to block them and doing so would be a violation of at least the UNCLOS. Also the IWC doesn't have any provision, mandate or the money to police any areas.

What about the feelings of majority of the members in IWC? After all the vote was defeated 41-27!

The IWC has 88 members. 41 is not a majority.

leave the IWC and try and continue trying to buy smaller nations votes

If they leave the IWC why would they care about smaller nations votes?

Make a Southern fisheries as a non fishing zone. And sink any vessel that encroach on that. God lord

So become pirates and/or declare war on Japan? Yeah that is a logical reponse.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

The IWC has long since degenerated into a bully organization. Though it has European whaling countries like Iceland and Norway among its members, its real target is Japan.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

Japan insists whale stocks have sufficiently recovered to allow commercial hunting to resume.

This statement is just an opinion if not backed up with reasons why and a link to the peer reviewed research in English. Could you provide the link to this research then?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

a return to sustainable whaling for profit

There it is folks! It has nothing to with culture, sustainability or a need for food. Japan wants to hunt whales to make money from them. That’s all!

Now, Japan has threatened to leave the IWC like the spoiled playground brat who can’t get his way. Good! Leave the IWC and become poachers. I can’t wait to see the NISSHIN MARU confiscated and scuttled for being a poaching vessel.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

plasticmonkeyToday 06:58 am JST

One wonders why Japan invests so much money and effort in protecting its whaling industry while there is such low demand for the product.

One also wonders what the politicians representing whaling communities are willing to do to keep their votes, how much they pull in campaign funds from those communities and how over-represented they are in the Diet.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Shady and crooked! They should be kicked out!

1 ( +8 / -7 )

"Japan, your presence in the IWC will not be missed."

Surely they WON'T! Not a dicky!

Why would the IWC miss its biggest financial contributor?

As per 2017, most recently audited accounts:

Country Financial Contribution

Japan 123,482 BILLIONS

USA 82,556 BILLIONS

AUSTRALIA 64,086 BILLIONS

Thanks to Audited Accounts, as published by the IWC itself we know that their finances will NOT be affected, should Japan, the biggest contributor leaves!!!

Me thinks Japan should leave then.

Let big mouth Australia pick up the tab.!

-8 ( +11 / -19 )

Japan is the IWC's biggest benefactor? Someone tell me that's not true, because in spite of the numbers in @Peeping_Tom's post, why would the IWC need billions of dollars? What exactly, does the IWC do, with all that money? Hold conferences?

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I'm curious about the picture of the scientific implement at the top of the page. What sort of knowledge and insight regarding mammalian reproduction does a tool like this provide for academic humankind?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Maybe, Japan's agricultural and fishery ministry wants to help dwindling Japanese fishery industries and businesses. People are eating fish less and less. Whale meat is handled at fish shops in Japan. But I am against the proposal. It is disgraceful Japan as a third largest economy in the world supports commercial whaling. Japan will be regarded as a developing country or culturally under-developed nation.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Japan ought pullout. It’ll be game over.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

Dom Palmer,

You obviously know alot about this subject and you always post good arguments.

For me, it simply boils down to not wanting people travelling halfway across the globe to kill hundreds of whales. So I am glad the bid was blocked.

Perhaps they should stick to their own waters, then others wouldn’t have so much of a problem.

11 ( +19 / -8 )

The world doesn't respect how Japan views the ocean. When there is nothing left in the sea they will just say how "regrettable" it is.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

So all that bribery money to small nations then pullout? Abe should ask for a refund. Or Ishiba...

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Let’s face it, the true purpose of the IWC today is to block Japan’s whaling.

That’s the goal of the anti-whaling nations at the IWC, and so long as Japan remains, they get what they want.

But if none of their members were catching whales, do we think their tax payers would keep sending their representatives to surfing resorts in Brazil every couple of years, for no political gain? No way Jose, that’s a political liability at that point.

Japan should quit, then the Icelanders and Norwegians and Russians and South Koreans and Canadians and other places with whaling people’s would surely all follow.

Just harpoon the IWC already, it’s failed at its original mission. Quit and let the losers sulk for a change.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Benefactor,?, in my world if Japan has been paying all that money plus paying countries like Bolivia ( a land locked country)for their vote. All this time I would and am more concerned about the use of tax payers money to prop up an unsustainable business model. A cost and benifits analyst would quickly point out that it's just not profitable. Then the good will lost add on. Seriously tax payers suffer for bolstering a group of old mens mojo? Clear the dust and you have withered old men clasping desperately to a tax funded income and a crazy sence of culture.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Taking a page from the Trump playbook, eh? Whine, cajole, threaten, and when you lose, quit. You've lost, and the loss demonstrates that your norms are far outside those of other member nations. Suck it up and join the world.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

There can only be two reasons why Japan insists on hunting animals almost nobody wants to eat:

1) to reinforce public perception that the world doesn't fully appreciate Japan's unique "traditions" (like hunting whales near Antarctica, ha ha), thereby bolstering nationalism and the LDP

2) to support an industry in which certain members of the government and organized crime groups have a vested interest

Neither of these reasons warrants the wasting of marine resources (or the killing of intelligent mammals, according to some) or tax revenue.

Whatever happened to the uniquely Japanese ethic of "mottainai"?

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Country Financial Contribution

Japan 123,482 BILLIONS

USA 82,556 BILLIONS

AUSTRALIA 64,086 BILLIONS

Is that denominated in Mario coins? Anyway, my sources say the correct figure was eleventy billion.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Anti-whaling nations led by Australia, the European Union and the United States, defeated Japan's "Way Forward" proposal in a 41 to 27 vote.

Haha!

> "the narrative of underlying dysfunction and intolerance" suggested by Japan.

well said!

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Maybe you "source" was the one quoting Mario's money?

https://iwc.int/iwcfinancing

3 ( +6 / -3 )

 and threatened Tokyo's withdrawal from the 89-member body if progress could not be made towards a return to commercial whaling. go ahead Japan pullout and leave the big boy decisions to those that actually want ocean conservation and can lead the world in a sustainable future.. Just shows Japans whaling is a farce, doesnt like the rules so spits the dummy and takes his toys home. Dont expect other countries to take Japan seriously in other conservation issues if they cant abide by international consensus

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Peeping Tom said -

"....As per 2017, most recently audited accounts:

Country Financial Contribution*

Japan 123,482 BILLIONS*

USA 82,556 BILLIONS*

AUSTRALIA 64,086 BILLIONS ....."*

I believe you need to scrutinize the original data more carefully before quoting.

Total contributions are a miniscule of what you said. A miniscule. Opinions in discussions is one thing and are to be welcomed, but big mistakes in data garners no credit at all.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

I am really angry at IWC organization, Japan should leave if they will not respect Japanese feelings lol

why should people respect Japans feelings when Japan cant respect the feelings of world opinion. feelings

is not a prerequisite for ocean conservation, science and common sense is

4 ( +12 / -8 )

"Dont expect other countries to take Japan seriously in other conservation issues if they cant abide by international consensus"

41 to 27 is NOT the "international consensus"!

Australia talks a lot, Japan pays almost double of what Australia does, in order to allow Australia to freely run their mouth.

Japan should quit the organisation; let's see then how much and how loud Australia will carry on talking.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Australia talks a lot, Japan pays almost double of what Australia does, in order to allow Australia to freely run their mouth.

Pay as much as you want, I'm afraid it won't silence dissenting voices (except places like Laos, Cambodia, Nicaragua)

Japan should quit the organisation; let's see then how much and how loud Australia will carry on talking.

If you are thinking that quitting will end opposition to commercial whaling then you are quite mistaken. The rest of the world is moving towards increased marine conservation, Japan is going the other way.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Japan's $$$ does not give it the right to dictate to the rest of the world. A vote has been taken, Japan lost. Respect the decision.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

"If you are thinking that quitting will end opposition to commercial whaling then you are quite mistaken."

That's not what I'm thinking.

The Peeping is stating that Japan should put a stop to Australia's run by stopping huge flows of hard cash that help fund Australia's peccadilloes.

Japan should do exactly what Iceland and Norway do; ignore a non entity like Australia and hunt anyway!

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

So, they're going to do it anyway, in a hissy fit, but they just wanted to try and force their way on the rest of the world first so that they could try and look better doing it. We all know it's not for science and never has been, and we also all know that pretty much no Japanese people want to eat it. They are just doing this out of misplaced pride. Get ready for more earmarked disaster money to go towards whaling, people, so that it can rot in freezers before being force-fed to children.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Peeping Tom: "Japan should do exactly what Iceland and Norway do; ignore a non entity like Australia and hunt anyway!"

Except Japan's biggest concern is how it looks in the eyes of the world. Iceland and Norway honestly Don't care. Japan does, hence they are trying to change the world to fit its image.

Oh, and Iceland and Norway fish within their waters. Japan claims the entire ocean as its own, even sending it's COAST guard on ships, which is illegal.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Japan should do exactly what Iceland and Norway do; ignore a non entity like Australia and hunt anyway!

'The Peeping' seems to have an irrational dislike for Australia. Unfortunately for you they are a wealthy, progressive nation who don't succumb to Japan's bribery. Do you also consider Europe & The USA to be non-entities, as they also oppose the slaughter?

Without opposition from abroad Japanese whalers may find it hard to keep up the charade when they are asked by the public to stop draining their taxes.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

"Oh, and Iceland and Norway fish within their waters. Japan claims the entire ocean as its own, even sending it's COAST guard on ships, which is illegal."

It's not illegal to hunt in international waters.

Australia proposed a sanctuary, proposal rejected, therefore Japan and every other nation is/are within their rights to hunt down there. Another proposal for a sanctuary has just been rejected.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@Peeping_Tom - Japan should do exactly what Iceland and Norway do; ignore a non entity like Australia and hunt anyway!

I fail to see why you are focussing all your hostility on Australia. There were 41 countries that voted against Japan.

However, in this case, I do agree with you. Japan should do what what Iceland and Norway do. That is, hunt in their own ocean regions and hunt only for substanance. Neither Norway or Iceland travel to the other end of the earth to hunt whales in a sanctuary they refuse to acknowledge. Therefore, I agree with you and hope Japan follows their lead to hunt locally and supply food for the people. The wonton slaughter of whales for profit and greed can never be accepted. Sorry to disappoint you.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

There it is folks! It has nothing to with culture, sustainability or a need for food. Japan wants to hunt whales to make money from them. That’s all!

Do the hustle - and they can't even make money from them! Japan has really backed itself into a corner on this issue through the misplaced pride of a few nationalists and the excessive influence of vested interests.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

"....As per 2017, most recently audited accounts:

Country Financial Contribution*

Japan 123,482 BILLIONS*

USA 82,556 BILLIONS*

AUSTRALIA 64,086 BILLIONS ....."*

I believe you need to scrutinize the original data more carefully before quoting.

Total contributions are a miniscule of what you said. A miniscule. Opinions in discussions is one thing and are to be welcomed, but big mistakes in data garners no credit at all."

file:///C:/Users/Rui/Downloads/RS6370_Summary_of_the_Financial_Contributions_Calculation_2017%20(1).pdf

Well, feel free to dissect the tables for us then; will be waiting.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

IWC seems nothing for pro-whalers if they can't hunt already sustainable amount of whales for commercial if whales are no longer endangered, needless to say, endangered whales should not/must not be hunted. Japan better leave IWC for commercial.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

what Iceland and Norway do. That is, hunt in their own ocean regions and hunt only for substanance

Both those countries have commercial whaling operations. The Greenlanders sell their catch in supermarkets.

As for international waters, any nation is free to catch marine resources in them. To suggest that Japan does not have the same right, is akin to me suggesting that you need permission from the rest of us before you breathe oxygen. I might highandedly decide to withhold my permission, but what does that mean to you?

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Former coloniat nations feel very justified in telling others what to do, but you can bet they wont take any suggestions themselves.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

We agree it is cruel and hunting and eating wild animals is anachronistic.

Surely having an animal be born in the wild, grow to adulthood in the wild, and then be killed by a hunter is more ethical than raising an animal from birth to adulthood in captivity and then slaughtered. So long as the whale species in question isn't endangered or at risk then I see no difference between this and hunting any other large mammal.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Former coloniat nations feel very justified in telling others what to do, .....

Old Hat

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

IllyasToday 02:00 pm JST

So long as the whale species in question isn't endangered or at risk then I see no difference between this and hunting any other large mammal.

Hunters of other animals don't generally go out in large groups and kill dozens of animals at a time as part of large commercial enterprises, do they?

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

@Peeping_Tom - Australia talks a lot, Japan pays almost double of what Australia does, in order to allow Australia to freely run their mouth.

Japan pays double, but has six times the population? Australia makes a far greater contribution per capita than Japan does. Australia does not run their mouth. Australia reports with facts and figures. Japan reports with lies. There is a huge difference. Japan has been stating all along that they have a long standing cultural heritage of hunting whales. However, they have openly stated at this meeting they want to hunt whales for profit. Who is running their mouth?

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

From the sea to a freezer to a freezer, to a freezer, all paid for by tax payers. Good job tax payers. And the rest of the world are actually trying to help you develop.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

As for international waters, any nation is free to catch marine resources in them. 

By the same logic, any nation would be free to dump nuclear waste in international waters. Fortunately most nations favour the freedom to protect rather than destroy. Japan does not.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Commercial whaling is the only way to replenish the shortage of whale meat in Japan. It must resume as soon as possible. Last time I was in Osaka visiting relative, I was extremely disappointed by the shortage of whale meat in a restaurant. I was able to eat as much as I wanted to.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japan did the same thing in the 1930s when it walked out of the League of Nations, and we know what happened not long after that. It sets a bad precedent. So they should stay in the organization, even if they have to appoint a manzai comedian to sit at the table.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Japan had sought consensus for its plan but had been forced to push the proposal to a vote "to demonstrate the resounding voices of support" for a return to sustainable whaling for profit, said Taniai.

Whats the point in returning to whale hunting? its not popular as a food and very few people eat the stuff. so Why?

Japan's vice-minister for fisheries Masaaki Taniai said he "regretted" the vote's outcome, and threatened Tokyo's withdrawal from the 89-member body if progress could not be made towards a return to commercial whaling. The way I read this is, " I will get my own way or else' it sounds a bit like a petulant child spitting his/her dummy out, when they don't get there own way, well Masaaki Taniai, it looks like your having a tough time, get a grip man understand that when you keep killing these endangered whales and there is non left what are you going to do then? stupid man.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

"Japan pays double, but has six times the population? Australia makes a far greater contribution per capita than Japan does"

Irrelevant to the issue at hand; going by your reasoning the USA should may more than Japan; they don't.

And what about China or Nigeria? Shouldn't they all pay more than Japan? I am just re-directing your own weapon towards you.

Japan's "largess" allows Australia the luxury of bad-mouthing and biting the very hand feeding them.

Japan should leave.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

As per 2017, most recently audited accounts:

Country Financial Contribution

Japan 123,482 BILLIONS

USA 82,556 BILLIONS

AUSTRALIA 64,086 BILLIONS

Is that in billions of yen? I've seen the table for 2015 and I get a payable sum of 1,637,951 pounds (or 239 billion yen) from all of the countries, where Japan had to pay 132,341 pounds (or 19 million yen)

Maybe there is a mistake in your units?

Because the requested sum for Japan´s 2018 Defense budget is 5,255 billion yen. I doubt Japan has to pay three more times the Defense budget to the IWC.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Sorry, I meant 239 million yen, not billion,

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Leave the IWC and become poachers.

They wouldn't be poachers. Do you consider Canada poachers and should their vessels be scuttled? Because they left the IWC in 1981 and now they issue their own permits every year allowing whale hunting.

Japan is the IWC's biggest benefactor?

It is true. The IWC annual budget is about $2.5 million.

Perhaps they should stick to their own waters, then others wouldn’t have so much of a problem.

You mean like the dolphin hunting from Taiji that causes international outrage every year? Sorry, but if Japan moved any whaling to waters near Japan they protests would just shift. And the IWC hasn't authorize Japan's request for whaling near Japan either.

Bolivia ( a land locked country)for their vote.

Bolivia STILL isn't an IWC member as was explained days ago.

if they cant abide by international consensus

There are 88 members in the IWC. There are ~200 countries in the world. Even with a unanimous vote the IWC does not represent an international consensus

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Japan wants to hunt whales to make money from them.

”Money” is jobs and betterment for humankind.

If the number caught is within a sustainable quota, all power to them.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Dom Palmer

Thank you.

You mean like the dolphin hunting from Taiji that causes international outrage every year?

I think ‘international outrage’ is an exaggeration here. From environmental groups certainly, and others who happen to chance upon a documentary or a news article. International condemnation perhaps, but concerted government action in opposition? Personally I don’t know of it.

And the IWC hasn't authorize Japan's request for whaling near Japan either.

So why do they still do it? Unless dolphins in Taiji and whales in Antarctica are different arguments, but you seem to be equating them.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

It’s about time they leave. Spend way too much money on that organization. Also wasted a lot of money to be friendly with other members and getting them to agree with pro-whaling. Got nothing out of it. Japen need to stop being members of the organizations that keep asking for money,but never give anything back. Even the EU was worthless that only knows how to throw a tantrum and demand unreasonable things. They always have something to complain about and are being bias because their own way of thinking. The amount of donation we give for all these organizations would instead be better put to use to recover Japan economy. If this was China,they would already began whaling without needing anyone permission and tell them to shut up. IWC wouldn’t be able to do anything,but whine about it. These people need to understand that humans are different and each nation has their own cultures,morales and national pride. These people never understood that Japan doesn’t mind losing money on the whale business,because for the old generation it’s their tradition to hunt. The younger generation might have been influence by the western cultures,but not the old generation. It was never about making money. Asia is not a place for the west and it will never will be. We might learn from them,treats them with respect and even be friends,but for us you will forever be a different from us. From what i am seeing in the news,Europe is finish anyway. They have bigger problems to worried about than some mammals.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

peeping tom - you haven't checked those figures yet.

Or maybe you're correct and Japan did pay 123, 482, 000,000,000 for the year.

Must be my & others mistake, but that'd rebuild all of Tohoku.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

41 to 27 is NOT the "international consensus"!

actually it is , IWC is a democratic organisation, people can choose to join or not , if your not a member then you dont have any views on commercial whaling so your opinion doesn't count, thats how democracy works. SO the international consensus is that commercial whaling shouldnt be allowed. Now this doesnt stop Japan buying more votes from poorer countries to join nor does it stop them leaving the IWC, but this just truly shows Japan doesnt think democracy should be the deciding principle when it cant get its way.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

The younger generation might have been influence by the western cultures,but not the old generation.

the older generation wont be around for much longer then the younger will take their place.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

If the number caught is within a sustainable quota, all power to them.

name me one larger ocean mammal or fish that Japan catches commerically that is sustainable or hasnt been over fished

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Sorry, I meant 239 million yen, not billion,

so Japan donated 239million yen to the IWC yet wastes 2.5billion yen annually going to antarctica to catch 333 whales most of which wont be eaten by humans. somebody's got their priorities all messed up

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

 I was extremely disappointed by the shortage of whale meat in a restaurant. I was able to eat as much as I wanted to.

there's 1000s of tonnes stored in freezers throughout Japan, they just want to give the impression theres a shortage to keep prices high, before you chow down on that next batch of blubber its been scientifically proven by Prof Endo from the UNiversity of Hokkaido that of all the  137 meat samples tested found that every one exceeded the provisional mercury level set by the Japanese Ministry of Health, which is 0.4 parts per million (ppm). bon apeptite https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-05/acs-mip051903.php

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

@browny1

 

You're correct in the sense that the figures are incorrectly stated in Billions; mea culpa.

Really sorry for that!

 

Was talking to people and checking this over my blower simultaneously. I made a mistake! A proper

cock-up!!! Huge mistake, I know it.

 

However, the digits I mentioned remain the same; change the Billions to:

 

£64,086 - Australia

£123, 482 - Japan

£82,556 - USA

 

 

They're all on Group: 4 highest payers

 

Japan still forks out almost twice as its biggest and bitterest critics.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

@Thomas you have a really bad taste in fish meat. Eating whale meat is worse than eating the cheapest tuna sushi money can buy.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

name me one larger ocean mammal or fish that Japan catches commerically that is sustainable or hasnt been over fished

Do Antarctic minke whales count? According to critics of the research it’s a commercial hunt, so there you go.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Also wasted a lot of money to be friendly with other members and getting them to agree with pro-whaling.

Hiro, such honesty about Japan's bribery of poorer nations of the IWC is very refreshing!

I was puzzled by your comment on the EU throwing a tantrum though - could you give me an example?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Unless dolphins in Taiji and whales in Antarctica are different arguments, but you seem to be equating them.

 I am equating them only on the issue/comment that I was responding to, hence why I quoted it for context. The claim was that if Japan would only stick to their own waters then they would have less problems. Dolphin hunting is in their own waters and they get as much grief and problems because of it as they do over the whale hunting not in their own waters. Seeming to indicate that the claim is false.

 IWC is a democratic organisation

 Actually it isn't. To join you have to pay and some are required to pay more than others. Paying for the privilege to vote isn't democracy and charging different countries different amounts isn't democratic either. SO the IWC doesn't represent an international consensus.

 name me one larger ocean mammal or fish that Japan catches commerically that is sustainable or hasnt been over fished

 Antarctic Minke whales.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

 name me one larger ocean mammal or fish that Japan catches commerically that is sustainable or hasnt been over fished

 Antarctic Minke whales.

Sorry I miss spoke. Although it is claimed by some to be commercial it is done under a valid research permit. But whether the hunt is commercial, research or just accidental killings, 30+ years of hundreds of Antarctic Minkes being killed without the population decreasing is kind of proof that those numbers are sustainable.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Dom Palmer,

Whaling is still done in coastal areas of Japan other than Taiji, is it not? It’s hard to find information on it, so I guess it’s not such a big deal.

And I think we can separate the barbaric slaughter by throat-slitting of dolphins, in Japanese waters or not, and whaling.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

IWC once a whaling club was hijacked by the whale lovers.

It's now a glorious whale loving club(many heart-marks).

And no matter how much evidence we present, resuming commercial whaling is never ever happen.

Enough is enough. It's about time to leave.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

 Actually it isn't.  actually it is, decisions are made by a majority vote by its members that the basis of a democracy. Japan even went to the ICJ and lost, but still followed the courts ruling. Why do you think Japan hasnt left already, because it still follows the basic principle of democracy, but now it cant get it way it may decide to change its mind and leave.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Japan's "largess" allows Australia the luxury of bad-mouthing and biting the very hand feeding them. LOL

Australia doesnt need Japan to feed them the average Australian earns more than the average Japanese $52000 to Japans $39000. Australia GDP per capita is around $54,000 compared to Japans $38000, meaning the average Australia has more wealth than the average Japanese. Australia doesnt have anywhere near the government debt of Japan. Australia is a wealthy country and certainly doesnt need Japan to feed them or be told what to do by them.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

decisions are made by a majority vote by its members that the basis of a democracy

No, the basis of democracy is that everyone has an equal voice. Requiring payments to be able to vote and charging different members different amounts is not giving them equal voices.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Requiring payments to be able to vote and charging different members different amounts is not giving them equal voices. same as the UN countries pay depending on the size of their GDP, Japan has an equal voice like every other member of the IWC, but because Japan pays the most people seem to think they should get a veto vote. LOL

1 ( +5 / -4 )

This is one of those times when we will just have to agree to disagree. I think it is immoral to kill for profit any species as intelligent as whales.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Japan did the same thing in the 1930s when it walked out of the League of Nations, and we know what happened not long after that.

Not to mention when Japan pulled out of the International Association of Tactile Proctologists. Nearly started World War 3....

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

same as the UN countries pay depending on the size of their GDP

The UN isn't a democracy and members do NOT have an equal voice. Except fot purely internal/budgeting matters only the votes in the Security Council have to be followed and have any real world effect. And any of the 5 permanent members of the Security Council can veto any proposal with just their one vote. That is far from a democracy and far from members having equal voices.

but because Japan pays the most people seem to think they should get a veto vote.

I can't remember a single person even stating that opinion.

I think it is immoral to kill for profit any species as intelligent as whales.

So like pigs, right?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

 That is far from a democracy and far from members having equal voices.

democracy isnt perfect but it best system currently available.

so Japan should pull out and start its own organisation with members that are sympathetic to their cause, that's hardly democratic , thats just fixing the deck. The whole point is the IWC was been the leading organistaion for whale conservation, no matter how many votes Japan buys it still cant the required votes, not even a majority vote to resume commerical whaling, Norway , Iceland, Canada also left becuase they could get world opionion on their side, but at least they fish in their own waters.

This in itself should tell you what world opinion is about whaling

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Not to mention when Japan pulled out of the International Association of Tactile Proctologists. Nearly started World War 3....

but theyre still a memeber of the Society of Scientific Propaganda & Hypocritical Speech Pathology

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

I see some discussion about the UN's Security Council. There are 5 permanent members; the US, China, Russia, France, and Britain, and I believe they each have a veto power. Given the current state of world affairs, an argument can be made for making Japan a permanent member of the UN Security Council, with or without veto power. Japan has a larger population, and a larger gdp, than either France or Britain and Japan's gdp is more than twice that of Russia, the sick old man of Eurasia. An argument can be made for substituting Japan for Russia on the Security Council. Russia makes a lot of noise, but without a healthy economy her power is very much constrained, unless she wants to go to war with small countries on her borders.

Perhaps Germany and India should also be made permanent members of the UN Security Council, with or without veto powers.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

democracy isnt perfect but it best system currently available.

Never said otherwise. Just said the IWC and the UN AREN'T democracies.

so Japan should pull out and start its own organisation with members that are sympathetic to their cause

Never said anything like this either.

Norway , Iceland, Canada also left becuase they could get world opionion on their side

Norway never left. Iceland came back. Canada left because they realize the IWC was toothless, they never had a problem getting their desired whaling permits approved by the IWC.

This in itself should tell you what world opinion is about whaling

No, the fact that only 88 countries out of ~200 are IWC members, split roughly 1/3 pro-whaling 2/3 anti-whaling, and that the in general the anti-whaling nations do nothing outside the toothless IWC to fight whaling tells me that the world opinion about whaling is apathy.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

"Australia doesnt need Japan to feed them the average Australian earns more than the average Japanese $52000 to Japans $39000. Australia GDP per capita is around $54,000 compared to Japans $38000, meaning the average Australia has more wealth than the average Japanese. Australia doesnt have anywhere near the government debt of Japan. Australia is a wealthy country and certainly doesnt need Japan to feed them or be told what to do by them."

Yes, they do.

"Japan is Australia’s second largest export market and second largest source of foreign direct investment after the US – and its investment continues to grow.

The stock of Japan’s FDI into Australia has increased by 78 per cent from 2010 to 2016 to reach A$91 billion."

Link is out there to be found.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Yes, they do.

and vice versa, Australia is the largest exporter of coal and iron ore and one of the largest exporters of gas , Japan being one of its biggest customers, without these resorces Japan doesnt have a manufacturing industry. Japan exports what people want, Australia exports what people need, big difference. Australia is food self efficient can easily feed its population with what it produces, Japan cant. Australia doesnt need to kowtow or be told to do by Japan

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Japan could buy everything Australia sells elsewhere. There are lots of raw materials producing countries out there, so "without these resorces Japan doesnt have a manufacturing industry" is an attempt at taking the mickey.

On the other hand there aren't as many countries with cash and know-how, as there are resource rich ones.

Japan has plenty of suitors out there; lots of poor, resource rich countries with much more than Australia.

Australia does not have as many rich suitors to bring in cash and know-how. There are some, not many.

That's a fact.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

On the other hand there aren't as many countries with cash and know-how, as there are resource rich ones.

Japan has plenty of suitors out there; lots of poor, resource rich countries with much more than Australia.

Australia does not have as many rich suitors to bring in cash and know-how. There are some, not many.

That's a fact.

And yet funnily enough Australia has had a world leading 27 years of uninterrupted economic growth whilst Japan has bumping along the flatline at best....Japan can only buy its gas, oil, minerals from a "friendly "country that its US master approves of as the recent Iranian oil flipflop by Japan has shown. So whilst Japan may have "suitors" it is not allowed to choose freely without its US boss,s nod. Japan needs Australia. Thats a fact.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Australia does not have as many rich suitors to bring in cash and know-how. There are some, not many.

lol China is Australia biggest export partner they buy more resoruces and food than Japan and its increasing yearly, China is hungry for resources if Japan doesnt need it then China will happily take it, meanwhile Japan makes car ,electronics, Australia can and does get their cars from Korea , EU, America and China, its electronics from Korea and China.

Japan could buy everything Australia sells elsewhere.

exactly the same for Australia, whole point is Australia can survive far better without food & resource imports than Japan ever could, Japan will always be heavily reliant on other countries for its food and energy needs, without that Japan doesn't have a economy. Like I said Australia isnt a poor country doesn't need Japans money to buy their obedience

2 ( +6 / -4 )

At the end of the day, staunch anti whaling countries like Australia, NZ, US,..etc do not care about it enough to do anything thing. Japan can and will hunt whales all they want and nobody will stop them.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Japan should leave the IWC. Japan has nothing to offer and does not belong there.

Japan can and will hunt whales all they want and nobody will stop them.

I'd like to see them try it. Until now, they have been hiding behind a loop-hole and playing the passive-aggressive game that is normal in Japan. I wonder if Japan even has the courage?

The world is finally getting wise to Japan...

1 ( +5 / -4 )

... maybe it's time for Japan to grow up and stop hiding behind Mum's skirt.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Japan can and will hunt whales all they want and nobody will stop them.

possible, but when it comes to other ocean conservation forums Japan opionion will mean squat if it doesn't listen or abide by world opinion. meanwhile China and Korea will continue to fish in Japanese waters and theres nothing Japan can do about it, certainly their opionion means zero if they dont respect other countries decisions.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Australia does not have as many rich suitors to bring in cash and know-how. There are some, not many.

That's a fact.

heres the facts China is Australia largest export partner buys almost 3 time as much as Japan and is increasing yearly, ironically these same resources and agriculture products is what Japan need also. If Japan doesn't want it Australia will sell it to China India, Korea. Once again Australia doesnt need Japans money to be told what to do by them plenty of others wholl happily take their products

China: US$68 billion (29.6% of total Australian exports)

Japan: $23.6 billion (10.3%)

South Korea: $12.5 billion (5.5%)

India: $10.2 billion (4.4%)

Hong Kong: $9.1 billion (4%)

United States: $8.6 billion (3.8%)

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Looks like we all agree that Japan can have a sustainable quota of minke whales then.

Next.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Looks like we all agree that Japan can have a sustainable quota of minke whales then.

It takes some serious metal gymnastics to arrive at that.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

A "whaling" body that is anti-whaling. Clearly time to leave the organization.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

serious metal gymnastics 

sorry I was just trying to be funny, failed obviously :)

3 ( +3 / -0 )

sorry I was just trying to be funny, failed obviously :)

Sorry dude! Didn't catch on.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

A "whaling" body that is anti-whaling. Clearly time to leave the organization. 

not anti whaling , just pro ocean conservation, with Japan consuming 70% of the worlds seafood imports its record is abysmal, stock levels of many popular species is proof of that.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

With Japan's economic success and lack of need for whale meat, one should believe it the right thing to do for the Japanese to agree with the IWC, but it is a stubborn belief that tradition is being violated, much like the Chinese continued desire for ivory. Older ideals, false nationalistic pride and bigotry is the root cause of not being able to change. The whaling shows the staunch stone face of Japan is something that would be a good thing to soften up in the eyes of the world, but to the Japanese their obstinate viewpoint is their right. It isn't just whaling where this occurs.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

This issue can’t be framed as a Japan issue.

It’s not.

It’s a matter of whether one thinks that sustainable development is ok for all, or not.

The notion of using a sustainable quota of whales for commercial purposes, has nothing to do with nationality.

You either are fine with it because you are, or you aren’t because you think whales are special.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

You either are fine with it because you are, or you aren’t because you think whales are special.

You either are fine with it because you think ocean conservation is important, or you aren't because you dont.... there fixed that for you.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

How is sustainability at odds with ocean conservation?

Indeed, the two are the same thing.

Catching all the whales is not sustainable, not compatible with conservation.

But by definition, catching no more whales than is sustainable is conservation.

Catching zero whales is but an extremist version of conservation, which brings into question the purpose of conserving in the first place.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Catching zero whales is but an extremist version of conservation, which brings into question the purpose of conserving in the first place.

when has Japan ever caught a ocean species where the numbers available havent dropped dramatically, after all catching as much as the ocean produces each year is conservation, catching more is exploitation. Japan record so far sit on the far side of exploitation, the scientific statistic clearly show this.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

when has Japan ever caught a ocean species where the numbers available havent dropped dramatically,

From 1986 to present Japan has been catching Antarctic Minke whales and their numbers haven't dropped at all. 'the scientific statistic clearly show this.'

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

when has Japan 

This is about having the IWC decide how many to catch, rather than leave it up to Japan.

Which ought make people think twice about having the IWC setting dopey zero catch limits.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

From 1986 to present Japan has been catching Antarctic Minke whales and their numbers haven't dropped at all. 'the scientific statistic clearly show this.'

catching minimal numbers under the disguise of science. if commercial whaling is allowed its highly likely Korean China NK etc will all jump on the bandwagaon to make money out of it, afterall exploiting the worlds oceans isnt the sole fault of Japan. Whales breed slowly and as history has shown us are high suseptable to overfishing, Japan has a long history of overfishing even when quotas are put in place 'the scientific statistic clearly show this.' how would whaling be any different .

2 ( +3 / -1 )

if commercial whaling is allowed its highly likely Korean China NK etc will all jump on the bandwagaon to make money out of it

But you and a lot of others claim their isn't any money to make.

Also, their would be a quota so no matter how many other countries "jump on the bandwagon" the number that could be caught would stay the same.

And their is nothing stopping Korea, China, NK etc. form either issuing their own research permits like Japan does or leaving the IWC and starting commercial whaling. Meaning any claim that country "X" will start whaling if the moratorium is lifted is most likely false.

Whales breed slowly and as history has shown us are high suseptable to overfishing, Japan has a long history of overfishing even when quotas are put in place 'the scientific statistic clearly show this.' how would whaling be any different

The math behind quotas takes into account the breeding rate.

So, Japan (and others) ignore quotas and will overfish no matter what. But Japan (and others) could start commercial whaling today without quotas if they wanted to. On the other hand, there is no profit to be made through whale hunting. Three standard anti-whaling cries that are logically inconsistent.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Three standard anti-whaling cries that are logically inconsistent.

its not anti whaling its pro ocean conservation, most dont care if Japan hunts whale in their own waters, Canada, Norway Iceland included, it hunting them 1000s miles away with factory ships then claiming its J tradition and we want to catch something that wont even be consumed by people, without turning the left overs into pet food, thats the illogical part of the whole process. If Japan was so logically consistent then it would have got the support its been craving, but it isn't so it hasn't.

the best part is that Japan cant even use Sea Shepherd as an excuse for an attack on its culture anymore LOL

1 ( +3 / -2 )

But you and a lot of others claim their isn't any money to make.

An excellent counterpoint.

There is a lot of contradiction coming from those who demand Japan not catch whales sustainably.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

most dont care if Japan hunts whale in their own waters

No reason nations should not sustainably use natural resources from the international seas.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

its not anti whaling its pro ocean conservation

Fine, Three standard pro ocean conservation cries that are logically inconsistent.

thats the illogical part of the whole process

If they were performing commercial whaling then it would be illogical. But the regulations regarding research whaling require the whales caught be used to the extent practicable. So, logically Japan has to follow the regulations. And the math of statistical sampling (kind of one of the epitomes of logic) calculates a required sample size in the hundreds. So again, logically Japan's research has to catch hundreds of whales.

If Japan was so logically consistent then it would have got the support its been craving

Just explained Japan's logical consistency. If the pro ocean conservationists were logically consistent they would allow the lifting of the moratorium in respect to Antarctic Minke whales. Because a return to commercial whaling would remove the need for the large research project and would require a profit motive, which the conservationists claim doesn't exist. So logically, a commercial quota would result in fewer whales killed.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites