Kishida says ban on same-sex marriage not discrimination

If the attempt for same-sex marriage is contrary to Japanese laws, then, that's that.

Kishida is not saying anything discriminatory if he is stating the facts.

If he did in fact say this, he is definitely going to regret it.

Toru Miyamoto, a Japanese Communist Party lawmaker, asked Kishida on Wednesday about his meeting with LGBTQ representatives and whether he really meant his apology. Miyamoto also noted recent media surveys and local government initiatives introducing non-binding same-sex partnerships, and told Kishida that support for same-sex marriage now represents the majority of public opinion.

Usual mealy-mouthed prevarication from Kishida and the LDP on this issue and a statement of the reality by the JCP.

Japan has it's on way in making own interpretation, that's including discrimination.

How deep unification church got to do with current Japanese government view on LBGT?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/08/02/national/japan-politics-religion-ties/

Nippon Kaigi has spoken. It is interesting that a historically Confucian society like Taiwan has been able to move on with the times and support all communities while Japan and other East Asian nations cling on to old tradition.

ZorotoToday 07:15 am JST

Japan is not the liberal West where less than 10% of the population is trying to control how everybody else thinks.

I see. Asking to be able to get married is akin to "trying to control how everybody else thinks."

Here's the thing, see: we don't care what you think of us, our relationships, or our marriages. People are allowed to be as bigoted as they would like to be inside their own heads, inside their own spheres. What we are asking, however, is that this bigotry is not foisted on us via the law. You get to think anything you like; what you don't get to do is make other people live by it.

I also tend to think that we have more people on our side, more allies, than you seem to believe. The latest polls in Japan are in favor of same-sex marriage.

So, no, he is not going to regret this.

Oh, yeah... he will. The days where we were quiet about being tramped on are over. He's definitely going to get pushback and will be forced to explain himself, so he will most definitely regret this.

It's always good when the bigots let fly their bigot flags. We then know who are enemies really are, and can really get down to work.

So thanks Kishida, for letting us know where you stand. We see you.

But his own previous comments — including that allowing same-sex marriage would change society and family values and must be carefully considered — were also seen as an indication of his reluctance to promote equal rights for LGBTQ people despite his pledge to create an inclusive and diverse society.

The manner and tone of Kishida's comments sound to me like he is thinking that if suddenly same-sex marriages were officially legalized here all Japanese are going to stop getting married to the opposite sex and Japan as an entire country is going to suddenly become or turn gay.

He is showing his own phobias, and more importantly, again to me here, ignorance and outright fear.

The LGBT population is a small portion of the overall society/population, and they deserve the same rights and freedoms, under the protection of the law and constitution.

His hypocrisy is born from ignorance. It would not take all that much for him to make a proposal, or submit a bill to the Diet to give that part of society, equal protections and rights, under the law. But he can't as HIS faction in the LDP is a minority, and the majority of the LDP are a bunch of ignorant idiots!

“I don't think disallowing same-sex couples to marry is unjust discrimination by the state."

Yes, it is. But whoever thinks this in 2022 isn't going to be convinced easily.

The problem here is, like with any social progress, that those who demand equal treatment are seen as asking for more than they "deserve". If, in the conservative mind, homosexuality is inferior to heterosexuality, wanting equal treatment is asking for an unnatural privilege. Just like for foreigners the right to vote, or just live in the country without constant scrutiny. Or just like for women the right to vote 100 years ago, or equality in the workplace even now.

Kishida and Nippon Kaigi won't be on the right side of history. However, the worldview that justifies this type of discrimination is rooted in deep prejudices, often supported by fear. Fear that those "unworthy" will somehow change society and take away the privileges of those who have them.

This is the first time I agree with Kashida san.

If Kishida’s sacked aide thinks he “wouldn’t want to live next to LGBTQ people,” it’s his personal choice and preference and should be respected in a truly inclusive and diverse society.

God! It's pathetic really. Who is it going to harm by having same-sex marriages? If it is just an affront to the prejudices of old dinosaur conservatives then that is no grounds at all for denying it. What's more, it seems to be what the people want, which is usually grounds, in a democracy, for changing things. We cannot live at the mercy of prejudices.

Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said the country's ban on same-sex marriage is not discriminatory

Kishida said “I don't think disallowing same-sex couples to marry is unjust discrimination.

Ahh, his true opinion.

"The Sapporo District Court on March 17 2021 ruled that the government’s refusal to recognize same-sex marriages is unconstitutional and discriminatory against gay people."

https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14276429

I guess he is wrong if the courts say it is discriminatory.

MeiyouwentiToday  07:37 am JST

If Kishida’s sacked aide thinks he “wouldn’t want to live next to LGBTQ people,” it’s his personal choice and preference and should be respected in a truly inclusive and diverse society.

Is he sure he doesn't already live next ot LGBTQ people? A truly inclusive society allow discrimination but does allow you to think whatever dumb thoughts are in your head.

Even politicians like Kishida plying their trade with the usual garnish of hypocrisy will sometimes let their true feelings slip out from their tongue (honne) revealing their total lack of imagination, the sine qua non of a successful career in politics. Meanwhile, the LDP drives on into the future with a smoking handbrake.

This is Japan.

They can and will do as they like.

Their choice!

This is the first time I agree with Kashida san.

"Kashida", loooool !!..

Agree too..

Kishida is not saying anything discriminatory if he is stating the facts.

He is not stating that same sex marriage is illegal (which would be the fact), he is saying it is not discriminatory, which is simply not a fact just because he "believes" it.

Sad to see such backwards thinking in 2022. Honestly I don't understand the reason for having marriage/partnership be sexually locked at all. If two friends want to live together and be responsible for each other why not? Always laughed when they wanted snapshots of my wife and me together at visa renewal. I promise there won't be more or less babies made just because you allow people to be together with the people they want to be with.

Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people often face discrimination at school, work and home in Japan, causing many to hide their sexual identities.

If LGBT people face discrimination against them, can that be solved in court as a legal matter? In other words, if same-sex marriage were allowed by law, would social bias and discrimination against them disappear right then and there like magic?

I think marriage has dual purposes: social and personal. On a personal side, marriage establishes itself if two people want to be united. Society, however, expects married couples to bear offspring so that it will sustain and prosper.

 For this second reason, society anywhere celebrates marriage as a big social event because it guarantees society’s everlasting sustenance and prosperity.

That's a massive fail for Kishida! Oh, dear.

If Kishida is really focused on boosting the economy,he should allow all marriages,considering how much they cost,and business created.

Come on now you "marriage is between a man and a woman" posters. It wasn't that long ago that interracial marriages were frowned upon or denied. If two people love each other and wish to make a commitment to each other, then let them do so. Let them have equal rights the same as anyone else in such a marriage commitment.

 if same-sex marriage were allowed by law, would social bias and discrimination against them disappear right then and there like magic?

The part of the discrimination where they can't get married would.

Society, however, expects married couples to bear offspring so that it will sustain and prosper.

Which is irrelevant for the purpose of defending making it illegal for some people to marry a consenting adult they love.

Article 24. Marriage shall be based only on the mutual consent of both sexes and it shall be maintained through mutual cooperation with the equal rights of husband and wife as a basis.

With regard to choice of spouse, property rights, inheritance, choice of domicile, divorce and other matters pertaining to marriage and the family, laws shall be enacted from the standpoint of individual dignity and the essential equality of the sexes

The constitution doesn't explicitly ban same sex marriages the government seems to assume that it was written with straight couples in mind. the way I read it is that it gives the same rights to husbands and to wives.

My guess is it was written in such away that it would allow marriages of anybody who wanted to.

And the Japanese government is discriminatory for not allowing anybody who wanted to get married to marry.

Kishida is not saying anything discriminatory if he is stating the facts.

Kishida's comments are discriminatory as his position is the leader of the government.

Oh, yeah... he will.

Because you say so???

The days where we were quiet about being tramped on are over.

No one is trampling over you.

He's definitely going to get pushback and will be forced to explain himself, so he will most definitely regret this.

He will, but he will probably get more support, but pushing the man won't help the LGBTQ community, being rational and having a dialogue will help down the road, threats won't help.

This is not a government issue. Surely in a democratic society, if two people love each other and wish to formalise their union they should be free to do so.

Q: Do Gay and Lesbian citizens have the same right to marry (engage in legal activity) as heterosexual citizens?

A: No

Q: You agree that this is legal behavior?

A: Oh yes.

Q: And that is for only one class of citizen? How is that not discriminatory?

A: Because we say it itsn't!

This, in a nutshell is that vapidity of the argument. The LDP doesn't like homosexuals, so it is going to discriinate against them.

As per usual, it will we drug along (bowing and sucking its teeth) by societal events and attitudes.

Japan is not the liberal West where less than 10% of the population is trying to control how everybody else thinks.

Not really, of course Japan is also part of the liberal West. it is all only a bit postponed here or a little more selected what to copy immediately and what not to copy immediately but for sure later from those global or internal 10%. Some examples, you have now here officially licensed same-sex partnerships, you have ministers denying death penalty, you have refugees from Ukraine, you have EV cars and less plastic bags and so on. A decade or two ago, all of that was unthinkable, now it’s soon normal.

Banning legal activities to adults based solely on sexual orientation is discriminatory on its face.

Marriage is a legal, in the opinon of the state desireable activitiy (I would tend to agree).

Denying homosexuals equal rights and protections (applying for loans as a couple, shared nenkin, end of life decisions, etc.) gained by marriage under the law and forcing them to live in a legal grey area due to their sexual orientation is discriminatory by definition.

This issue has had plenty of time to circulate among Japan society, and so far, the people have not voted for enough politicians to change the law, so obviously there is a reason for that.

Kishida is stating the facts, and he should be commended for that.

Not a Kishida fan but I’m with him on this . Go woke go broke Japan! don’t fall into the trap America fell in

God! It's nothing to do with being a Japanese versus an American (Western) thing. Unless you think that will of the conservative dinosaurs triumphs over will of the majority of people with will of the majority of people being an unnecessary western imposition. You can't denigrate democracy just because you disagree with the majority opinion. Or can you?

Q: Do Gay and Lesbian citizens have the same right to marry (engage in legal activity) as heterosexual citizens?

A: No

Actually yes, they have exactly the same right.

No culture should be politically battered into submitting to an agenda that its people would rather take time to consider the consequences.

Tokyo issues long-awaited same-sex partnership certificates

Partnership certificates allow same-sex couples to be treated as married couples in areas like housing, health and welfare

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/01/tokyo-issues-same-sex-partnership-certificates-amid-marriage-equality-debate

Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida actions could be construed as prejudice.

Discriminatory?

The harsh tone of such an accusation is a tad disingenuous, Fumio Kishida leads a ruling government that traditionally culturally values/recognized the union of two people, firmly, ridgely I suggest, to be between a man and a woman.

Society in general appears to support such a stance, rightly or wrongly.

If any other developed country PM had said that then The US would have come out guns blazing condemning the statement. But since it’s Japan they get a pass. The White House is quiet and the American embassy in Tokyo hasn’t commented at all. So much for Japan being a developed country!

Q: Do Gay and Lesbian citizens have the same right to marry (engage in legal activity) as heterosexual citizens?

A: No

Actually yes, they have exactly the same right.

Just not to another gay person. That is discriminatory.

discriminate

verb

to treat a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their race, gender, sexuality, etc.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/discriminate

Since the law with regards to marriage applies to everyone equally, there is no discrimination.

It does not apply to everyone equally as it denies rights and protections to homosexuals BASED on thier sexuality that it grants to heterosexuals. It is by the very definition you supplied, discriminatory.

Any law or policy that fails to grant all adults equal access to the rights and protections due to their sexuality is discriminatory, full stop.

Just because one doesn't like homosexuals is not a legally valid reason to deny them access to marriage anymore than not liking foreigners would have been a valid reason to deny them access to marriage.

Thank you PM Kishida for saying the quiet part out loud. 

"We don't like gay people. We are scared of them. We wish we didn't have to deal with them. We want them to crawl back under their rocks and be quiet so that we can live in our bubble. Some of us (men) are worried that if lesbians are allowed to marry other lesbians, our wives and GFs will magically turn into lesbians as well!"

That was the quiet part, right?

the country's ban on same-sex marriage is not discriminatory, insisting that constitutional freedom of marriage only envisions heterosexual unions,

There is a huge contradiction in this statement. If the constitution only allows for hetrosexual marriage it is discriminatory. Strange how Abe was all about changing the constitution so Japan could attack other countries, but nobody mentioned changing it to allow same-sex marriages. That is also discriminatory.

Marriage is a legal, in the opinon of the state desireable activitiy (I would tend to agree). 

How about civil unions?

Denying homosexuals equal rights and protections (applying for loans as a couple, shared nenkin, end of life decisions, etc.) gained by marriage under the law and forcing them to live in a legal grey area due to their sexual orientation is discriminatory by definition.

Well, the reason for that is, men and women pro-create, keep the nuclear family unity intact, gay couples do not, so I understand the argument for denying the benefits, other than that I don’t see a problem with the gay community having civil unions.

Japan is not the liberal West where less than 10% of the population is trying to control how everybody else thinks

In Japan, a majority are in favour of same-sex marriage.

The walls are closing in on unequal treatment of citizens on this issue.

Legalizing same-sex marriage in Japan is inevitable.

It’s coming.

Told ya!

Simply stating the truth.

Allowing some people to do something while not allowing other people to do that same thing is the definition of discrimination.

The sanctity of marriage, companionship, procreation, and redemption also to develop a strong foundation of trust declared openly to one friends and family.

Is same sex civil unions a danger or threat?

I don't believe so.

Silence is golden amongst my neighbours and friends especially when broaching the subject of anything LGBT. let alone same sex unions.

It is not a subject one brings up around the BBQ when flipping the burgers and steaks.

Age might play its part. I remember a conversation, when Dad noticed a guy sporting a purple shade of hair dye, he went all nudge nudge wink wink.

Kishida good job! Kick out these dirty people from your country. Let them to get married somewhere in scruffy West.

How can gay Japanese people be kicked out of their own country? And calling them dirty says everything about the type of nasty bigot you are.

A majority of Japanese people support same-sex marriage.

Based on….?

That number will continue to grow. 

To a certain point

Marriage equality is coming. 

Put money on it.

Eventually, but not now

Kishida is stating the facts, and he should be commended for that.

As it was easy to demonstrate he was not, he made a claim that he has not proved, pretending he only said the marriages are illegal (when that is not what he claimed) clearly shows you recognize that what he actually said is false, so you need to defend something he did not claimed.

I don't see the problem, in Japan, marriage is the union between a man and a woman. The law is clear.

A majority of Japanese people support same-sex marriage. That number will continue to grow. 

Marriage equality is coming.

Yet Japanese people keep voting these old decrepit,elitist and corrupted ultra nationalists of the LDP/Nippon Kaigi.

Age might play its part

I think it does. Opposition to marriage equality is almost always higher among the older generations.

This is why opposition to marriage equality will continue to sink and become a fringe belief in the future. it will be at the level of opposing interracial marriage in terms of support.

The clock is ticking.

I think marriage equality will be enacted in Japan in the next 5 to ten years. Growing public support and embarrassment in from of other developed nations ( Japan is very conscious of this ) are the two main pressures.

I remember one interesting take I heard from a Japanese woman who worked in the tourism industry. LGBT-friendly tourism is also an issue, and as LGBT people tend to earn more on average, this could also contribute.

*in front of

A majority of Japanese people support same-sex marriage.

Based on….?

Did you read the statement from the rep in the Diet:

Miyamoto also noted recent media surveys and local government initiatives introducing non-binding same-sex partnerships, and told Kishida that support for same-sex marriage now represents the majority of public opinion.*

Or are pointless non sequitur just a usual regressive conservative rhetorical tactic?

Marriage equality is coming. 

Put money on it.

Eventually, but not now

“The train is coming.”

“Yes, but it’s not here now.”

Good point, bass.

There was a time in the USA and South Africa when Blacks and Whites could not get married. Banning same-sex marriage is the same thing. But like inter-racial marriage, we'll get over it. My same-sex partner and I have been together since junior high in the early 90s, and we'd like to get married.

Recently I attended a powerpoint research project presented in English by two Japanese high-school girls on question of the LBTQ issue in Japan. These two 17 year-olds could have taught Kishida and many an LDP oyaji a thing or two. The commonsense take of the young generation of Japanese inspires hope for a more enlightened Japan of the future.

Saying that Japan does not currently allow same-sex marriage is stating a fact. Claiming that this is not discriminatory is Orwellian double-speak. If prohibiting some people from doing something while allowing others to do it is not discrimination, then what is?

Also, good job saying this right before Japan hosts the G7.

Or are pointless non sequitur just a usual regressive conservative rhetorical tactic?

No, just a calm, rational, logical emotionless question.

“The train is coming.”

“Yes, but it’s not here now.”

Good point, bass.

5-10-20 years…?

5-10-20 years…?

I’d go with 5-10.

No later than 10 and a possibility of before 5.

“I don't think disallowing same-sex couples to marry is unjust discrimination by the state."

What a stupid statement. He is either denying that this is discrimination or this unjust. At least, he should come clean and admit that whatever conservative ideology the people that put him in his seat (hint: not the Japanese voters) have mandates that he discrimate against same sex couples.

He is not stating that same sex marriage is illegal (which would be the fact), he is saying it is not discriminatory, which is simply not a fact just because he "believes" it.

He is stating same sex marriage is illegal--in the first sentence:

Kishida said the country's ban on same-sex marriage is not discriminatory,

As it was easy to demonstrate he was not, he made a claim that he has not proved, pretending he only said the marriages are illegal (when that is not what he claimed) clearly shows you recognize that what he actually said is false, so you need to defend something he did not claimed.

It is easy to see in the first sentence of the article he said same sex marriage is illegal.

If I recognized what he said is actually false, according to you, then why would I say he actually stated the facts?

More compelling--why would you try and make a conclusion contrary to what was concluded? Quite odd.

Japan is not the liberal West where less than 10% of the population is trying to control how everybody else thinks.

So, no, he is not going to regret this.

Exactly.

Discrimination is the unfair or prejudicial treatment of people and groups based on characteristics such as race, gender, age, or* *sexual orientation.

Kishida panders to the LDP-associated cult of cooped up elderly. By harping on about how society will change if Japan stops discriminating against same sex marriage these elderly are mortified of seeing a gay couple regardless of decades passing them by and the fact that recognition of same sex agreements has no affect on their lives at all.

At my core I believe, perhaps stupidly, that Kishida is more progressive minded than he lets on. This song and dance is all about the conservative block within the LDP appeasing their geriatric voters. I think Kishida himself knows the world has changed but is frankly too much of a coward to stand up for queer people as it would reflect somehow negatively on him to openly support a just marriage system.

The Japanese are overwhelmingly conservative & afraid of change which is why the LDP has ruled since the 50's. Except for a small & very short glitch in between. So, even if this does hurt Kishida, the party will still stay in charge & nothing will happen.

What is marriage by definition? The civil union between a man and a woman and basically, yes, to procreate in the context of making a stable family. Period. We all know the statistics within our society of the one parent families, which really does not work as effectively despite what you see on TV in Modern Family.

The minority does and should not usurp the majority, although I duly recognize that the younger generation has been led astray and brainwashed over the years. But they are all single and have never been married. Quite sanctimonious, they are. I grew up in a two parent family where my mother stayed home and greeted me EVERDAY after school. I had a a real home to come home to. Look at today, and the apparent chaos in our society as we diverge from social norms. Yes, let gays have their civil unions for visitation rights in a hospital, inheritance purpose, et. but they will never be what a true family should be, despite what Hollywood shows you in episodes of Modern Family!

I’d go with 5-10. 

No later than 10 and a possibility of before 5.

Maybe, you might be right.

Im not sure why anyone cares if two men or two women who love each other get married.

Can anyone who disagrees with it answer this question please?

Pressure coming on Japan from the EU and US to step on board the rainbow agenda bus.

As Jim Jefferies said, "do you know what you do if you don't believe in same sex marriage? Don't marry someone of the same sex. That will show them!" It's quite simple......

Whatever !! Who cares. If people wanna marry their nextdoor neighbors dog...I dont care....just dont involve me...and definately stay away from my kids.

Is there any promise Kishida hasn't broken?

Kishida is basically Abe Lite.

Whatever !! Who cares. If people wanna marry their nextdoor neighbors dog...I dont care....just dont involve me...and definately stay away from my kids.

Ah yes, the "Gays are pedos" trope.......

Homosexuals are no more likely to abuse children than their hetero counterparts.

And yet this non-sequitor is somehow used to deny equal rights under the law.....

Discrimination. No.

Inequality. Yes

The minority does and should not usurp the majority, 

AND.......

The majority does not get to deny equal protection under the law to the minority including equal access.

Seems you only learned 1/2 of the whole democracy/civil society think in highschool.

And your self-serving hommage to mom being at home implies that gay and lesbian couples are less committed to the children they raise which is on its face laughable as 1/2 or more of hetero first children are accidental (mine was as was I) and 100% of kids with gay parents are chosen by design.

Bottom line is Japan population is plummeting. They want more kids asap. Legalizing gay marriage does not help achieve the goals of a country with a population problem.

To be honest most govts around the world do not care for anyone except those who are going to bring them more tax revenue. its a similar to that of a large corporation. Lots of wish wash, but only the things that make money are cared about.

I think Kishida needs to pull out a dictionary and find the definition for discrimination. Look, I'll do it for him:

Discrimination:

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of ethnicity, age, sex, sexual orientation or disability.

Japan should be kicked out of the G7 for its continued lack of keeping up with the times and its international peers.

I reckon they have the right to get married and subsequently divorced just like the rest of us.

I dunno but I'm pretty sure banning couples from marrying based on their choice of partner is LITERALLY discrimination. there's some intense mental gymnastics going on here. what a buffoon

It is election season!

It most certainly is discriminatory when a same-sex partner cannot be claimed as a dependent on a tax return, and inheritance rights are different.

> Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said the country's ban on same-sex marriage is not discriminatory

isn't that the actual definition of discrimination?

vendingmachinemusicToday 12:06 pm JST

Bottom line is Japan population is plummeting. They want more kids asap. Legalizing gay marriage does not help achieve the goals of a country with a population problem.

I guess that you aren't aware that same-sex couples can have children, or that many opposite-sex couples aren't having children.

Or aren't you?

Ronin TsukebinToday 11:07 am JST

What is marriage by definition? The civil union between a man and a woman and basically, yes, to procreate in the context of making a stable family. Period.

Um, no. Marriage doesn't require anyone to have children. And since same-sex couples can and do have children, I think your definition needs some work.

The minority does and should not usurp the majority,

Let's see. The minority is usurping the majority, because the minority is taking away the rights of the majority.

No wait, that's not it.

The minority is usurping the majority, because the majority is butthurt that they don't get to take away the rights of the minority. Yep, that's it.

its sad that they oppose same sex marriage here in japan. Why stop 2 people having the freedom to legally bind them together? its not harming anyone. I guess the fact that the vast majority of married couples living separate, unhappy is much better for Japan in his mind.

Q: Do Gay and Lesbian citizens have the same right to marry (engage in legal activity) as heterosexual citizens?

A: No

Actually yes, they have exactly the same right.

Just not to another gay person. That is discriminatory.

Wrong again.

A gay person can marry another gay person in present laws.

I think it should be allowed but I really do respect Japanese conservatism. To be frank when conservative Japanese people look at what's happening in the West why would they want to go down this path? It's led to a complete loss of shared values and an attack on the nuclear family.

So all the people against same-sex marriage, if this was the Japanese government banning marriages between foreign and Japanese nationals, you would be on board with that? Because all it boils down to is equal representation under the law for everyone.

If the purpose of marriage is an expression of two people's love for one another, then it is discriminatory to say LGBT people are incapable of and not entitled to that kind of expression.

Society has no need and no obligation to recognize their union as normal because it is not.

But that is precisely what they are fighting for, for the union to become normal, and the privileges that come with it, because in this case, normal starts with being legal.

"Kishida says ban on same-sex marriage not discrimination"

Yes it is.