politics

Japan receives int'l support over China air zone

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How will it all end?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The US Air Force has two B-52's in the so-called ADIZ right at this minute, waiting for a surface to air missile so that we can retaliate. But there's nothing. The Chinese are simply hot air.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

@livinginnagoya1983. My 2 cents worth is that China keeps the ADIZ policy but extends invitations for all countries to maintain current travel practices. For all of its bluster, China is a very insecure country and still deals with feelings of inferiority and, like the bully it is, China wants to be feared but is also afraid of conflict. Making and keeping this ADIZ policy but allowing the status quo to continue allows China to flex its muscles a bit while saving its face.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

That map is frightening. It is time the rest of the world stand up to China on this one because it is obvious that their design is to control the sea around the whole of Asia. South Korea better swallow some pride and close ranks with Japan on this because they are fools if can't see they are next on the list. This has got nothing to do with WW2, the senkakus or even the natural gas deposits there but everything to do with expanding their influence. It would be a very bad idea for the rest of the world to appease China on this because they will just keep pushing. Time for the rest of the world to stand up and tell them to stop. It is the western countries and corporations that made China so powerful today by moving all their production facilities there, it's always a bad idea to put all your eggs in one basket. It looks like they have created Frankenstein's monster.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Japan must stand up to this bully.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

China. What are they thinking?

5 ( +9 / -3 )

Gee, would appear China may perhaps be trying to surround Taiwan?

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Article said Korea-based airlines are ignoring communist China on this matter. Kudos to them if true. Koreans have guts.
8 ( +8 / -1 )

Looks like China are trying to alienate themselves from the rest of the world...what the heck!

10 ( +12 / -2 )

But Japan’s main aviation companies had already acquiesced.

They are thinking of their passengers. Hardly surprising.

Anybody who is not Chinese would gladly put up with this kind of nonsense. A lot of the Chinese people think their own government is a joke too and think they should clean up their act rather than go looking for trouble.

Think about this - if China is deemed too risky for business, a lot of companies will relocate. If that happens, and I guess a lot of potential investors are having second thoughts, they won't go back. Why bother when there's more stable countries available? China is already in the process of doing irreparable damage to itself.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Many companies started pulling out of China previously and the exodus will continue as the lunatics leaders carry on like petulant children.

14 ( +15 / -2 )

Looks like the airline companies have changed their policy and will not submit flight plans in future.

http://jen.jiji.com/jc/eng?g=eco&k=2013112600990

11 ( +12 / -1 )

GO Japan.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

International flight ban for Chinese airlines might help solve the situation... AFAIK the islands were deemed as Japanese territory by the United Nations. Even China should respect the UN.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

If Japan truly wants to show Islands belong to them should set up no-fly zone over Senkaku.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

They should dynamite the islands so it goes under the sea. No islands, no ownership. Problem solved.

-7 ( +2 / -8 )

They should dynamite the islands so it goes under the sea. No islands, no ownership. Problem solved.

It's not the islands so much but the potential resources nearby.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

TumbleDry.....me thinks the islands themselves are not the value. It's the territorial water boundaries.

As post WW2 China shows, little by little occupying more and more territories.

10 ( +9 / -0 )

ReformedBasherNov. 27, 2013 - 09:47AM JST

Looks like the airline companies have changed their policy and will not submit flight plans in future.

http://jen.jiji.com/jc/eng?g=eco&k=201311260099

Thanks for the info. Japan Airlines should submit a "null and void" to China.

Tokyo, Nov. 26 (Jiji Press)

Japanese airlines including All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines decided Tuesday to stop submitting flight plans to the Chinese authority for entry into China's newly-set air defense identification zone over the East China Sea.

The decision came after Japan's transport ministry called on them via the domestic aviation industry group not to follow China's demand that aircraft entering the zone submit flight plans in advance.

The Japanese government has refused to accept the Chinese zone, which includes Japanese airspace over the Senkaku Islands in Okinawa Prefecture, which are also claimed by China.

China set up the zone on Saturday and warned that it will take "military defense measures" against aircraft not following its identification rules or instructions in the zone.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

So Australia and Germany are also voicing support? Good news then. Japan's allies keep on growing, while China backs itself further and further into the corner. Any day now, China will retract it's ADIZ and exclude the Senkakus as well as the Taiwan and Korean ADIZ. At least, I hope so.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Well China, obviously nobody wants to play by your unilateral set up rules. The US even gives a dump about it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25110011 contrary to your imaginary hallucinations you're not the king of the world.

Perhaps the US should set up temporary air defense zones over Bejing and fly some B-2s over it. Let's see how much the PRC has their pants full afterwards!

7 ( +8 / -1 )

It's not the islands so much but the potential resources nearby.

I don't think it is about the resources either. Look at a map of the sea around Asia China is claiming. They want to control the entire region and controlling the ocean is the way to do it. Whoever controls the ocean will control the land.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

"But Korean Air and its South Korean rival Asiana Airlines said none of their planes flying through the zone were reporting in advance to China."

Hang on a sec! I thought Ossan said South Korea doesn't have the gall Japan does! Guess he was wrong again.

This whole tit-for-tat game is getting tired. Unfortunately, we're starting to reach a point where backing down may not happen. It's now China vs. US, with Japan hiding behind the latter's legs and getting the sympathy card. Both Japan and China need to realize it's not a one-way street, grow up a little, and start working on a way to make amends before it's too late.

-16 ( +3 / -20 )

You are right about the tit-for-tat game smith...now the US flew the 2 B52`s over the area and Chinese are responding by sending its aircraft carrier with 4 other warships near the area for "routine exercises "..not a good development.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Perhaps if China's head guy and Japan's head guy were dropped off onto these little islands to shoot it out between each other on a, "winner take all" basis. Their little battle might make for good television. The rest of us could save our sons and daughters for more meaningful tasks, such as farming and manufacturing goods & grandchildren.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

marcelito: "not a good development."

Not at all, and so long as children are leading the nations it'll continue to get worse. Honestly.... a few rocks in the sea. Thanks, Ishihara.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

Great posts most of them today. I see the winds of common sense are blowing strong in this topic. Firstly the Chinese Air craft Carrier, a reconditioned ex Soviet Era ship, is NOT opertional, they have no trained air group so it is largely a paper tiger..as is China itself i fear. Lots of hot air but what they dont realize is that by their erratic and frankly bizarre actions, quite similar in some ways to North Korea their client state, they are threatening peace for no real purpose.

They cannot change facts. The islands and the region in the Sengokus is Japanese. They ere and will be Japanese. They have nothing to do with or for China. Time to wake up and accept reality. Only by continuing these bullying postures, the only country that will suffer is China. They are forcing the entire civilized world of modern states to back Japan, for such aggresive actions similar to piracy are a threat to world peace in every area.

Hopefully they will either stop or be taught a valuable lesson in modern reality. The US Navy and Air force is plenty capable and so is the JDF of defending Japan.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Japanese air carriers are just playing it safe. Remember Korean Airlines Flt 007? Still, Chinese govt is so meiwaku.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The Japanese air carriers will stop filing reports to this sham chinese attempted area of control in a few days. So they are no longer being sheep and tools for China's ambitions.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

livinginnagoya1983

" How will it all end? "

That depends. If Japan caves to this Chinese aggression, it sets the precedent to the next one and the next one, and one fine you have a Chinese presense on the islands and a new status quo. And then the demands for Okinawa will start.

If Japan grows some backbone and stands up the Chinese aggression, there will be more posturing, and a local arms race. With China getting richer but not more mature, and with the US getting weaker, that is the new reality we have to live with.

A shooting war, as some are phantasizing about, is not on the table. Not for a long time.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

By proclaiming this bogus ADIZ, the CCP have once again slapped themselves in the face and again revealed how clueless they are in the area of foreign relations. That no-one in the CCP or PLA could predict their unilateral posturing would be comprehensively rejected and defied by the international community beggars belief.

Now their bluff has been well-and-truly called, I suppose we can expect another round of tortured belligerent rhetoric from the CCP or PLA in yet another attempt to save face. The hole the CCP are continuing to dig themselves into over the Senkakus issue is rapidly becoming their grave.

The passage of two US B-52s over the area represents an emphatic and defiant rejection of the CCPs loud mouthed posturing and bogus territorial claims.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/26/us-warplanes-defy-china-b-52-flyover

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I see the winds of common sense are blowing strong in this topic.

I have to admit that until China declared this air defence zone I would have been more measured in my view concerning this dispute, thinking that there is intransigence and wrong on both sides. However, what China did the other day has well over-stepped the mark as far as I am concerned. This is nothing to do with those rocks and everything to do with expansion. For my part I don't care much if the Senkakus are Japanese or Chinese but there is no way that China can be allowed to uni-laterally declare a new air defence zone in the region, this is naked aggression on their part and all the countries in the region need to stand up. My fear is though that China having been playing the WW2 card in order to divide many of the countries around Japan and leave them by themselves and Japan has played right into their trap.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

So much for that. The Chinese government is succeeding in uniting many countries against it.

Unilaterally declaring an air defense zone over international air space is bad precedent.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

CrisGerSan: "The Japanese air carriers will stop filing reports to this sham chinese attempted area of control in a few days. So they are no longer being sheep and tools for China's ambitions."

On the contrary -- they are bowing once again to pressure, this time from the government. South Korea and Taiwan haven't bowed to China's pressure, so why should the Japanese carriers continue to?

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Smithinjapansan, i am sorry but i think you may have mis understood what is happening, both South Korea and Taiwan HAVE filed with the Chinese the Japanese carriers did for a few days but realized that they had enough support from the home governemnt to stop that, so what happened is that they ..the Japanese flag airlines felt safe and supported enough by the Japanese Govt to do the right thing, ie stop being a tool of Chinese drama. I am glad everyone is getting stronger and standing up to the bully. It is very good to see.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

CrisGerSan: "I am glad everyone is getting stronger and standing up to the bully."

Be careful what you wish for. While I doubt China would ever push the issue to the point of shooting down an airliner or Japanese fighter (if they have the stones to breach that airspace), I can see China scrambling fighters and forcing a Japanese jet out of the airspace in question. They wouldn't do that to South Korea, also at odds with Japan over Dokdo, or Taiwan, or the US, but they might with Japanese airliners. I would prefer to see them use caution then give in to government pressure.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Looking at that map, it looks like a fairly massive extension of area relative to their territorial waters. They must have known this would look needlessly belligerent.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

dcog: "Looking at that map, it looks like a fairly massive extension of area relative to their territorial waters. They must have known this would look needlessly belligerent."

Of that there is no doubt indeed.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Yes i agree i would hate terribly to see innocent people suffer from this game of cards....i am very very hopeful that somehow the Chinese will realize that this is not a possible situation for them to force their will upon. We will see but i do hope for a good outcome. Thank goodness that Japan has shown such restraint and reasonable concern, and that the US is standing firm in its commitments. With strong and stable parties we can hope that reason will prevail.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

CrisGerSan: "With strong and stable parties we can hope that reason will prevail."

Well, that and dialogue, and hopefully all parties will be 'strong' enough to be open to that, as well.

"Thank goodness that Japan has shown such restraint and reasonable concern..."

Can't really agree with you there. I call it powerless to do anything, hence the US lived up to its commitments. On the plus side, as I've said before, we're not hearing a whole lot of call to get the US out of the bases these days, so perhaps some people are learning of the necessity of the US presence.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

ChriGerSan:

" Thank goodness that Japan has shown such restraint and reasonable concern, "

Alas, totalitarian regimes like the Chinese one often mistake restraint for weakness. Force is the only language they understand. I really hope Japan becomes a bit more assertive and established a presence on the Senkakus. Otherwise, they have the Vietnam and Philippine experience.... one fine morning they wake up to find their islands stolen by force.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Offense is the best defense. China is taking actions. Japan, it's time to wake up and strike .

0 ( +2 / -2 )

WillieB san yes sadly i think you are right, i was trying to be a bit conciliatory for the sake of calming the dialogue here, as i don't like conflict in any realm, but sadly history agrees with you and China has shown it has no self restraint when it comes to its projected desires.

What I find interesting is how the American press is tip toeing around this issue and also the BBC which has sadly become a much weakened and denatured version of its former self, both pretending that there is some question of Sovereignty of the islands in question and they keep using the fantasy name that the Chinese have coined for the islands instead of the real Japanese name in reports, it all makes the western coverage of this issue rather odd and skewed for those not informed about the real situation.

the islands are Japanese. it seems China just has not accepted that yet but i think in time they will. Certainly Japan has been very reasonable about it so far and China has not helped itself by its aggresive unilateral actions. We will see how it goes but the discussion here has been interesting and useful and thanks for all for contributing to an excellent dialogue.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

kurumazakaNov. 27, 2013 - 09:02AM JST

Gee, would appear China may perhaps be trying to surround Taiwan?

I agree. In addition to demanding Japanese Self Defense Force planes to ID themselves over disputed islands, this also serves to monitor commercial flights to and from Taipei from South Korean and Western Japanese airports.

I am surprised to see South Korea and Japan now have some common tensions with China. This NY Times article gives a little of the ROK perspective:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/28/world/asia/chinas-airspace-claim-inflames-ties-to-south-korea-too.html?_r=0

1 ( +2 / -1 )

China is turning into another U.S. (Monroe Doctrine).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

“We have taken the measures in line with international regulations,” an ANA spokesman said. “Safety is our top priority. We have to avoid any possibility of the worst-case scenario.”

While the Chinese have a stupidly big ego they aren't stupid enough to shoot down a passenger plane. The international uproar would be one that they wouldn't be able to come out of in one piece.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Go Japan ... China is your son

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Yes China has attempted to make similar claims and attacks on the soverighn territory of most of the other Asian Nations that border on the Pacific Ocean. They do not have the strength or the inner courage of Japan so Japan has become the leader of the people trying to get China to restrain itself as it becomes more and more aggressive. The islands in questiion here are only part of the major problem.

All reasonable nations are supporting Japan and calling China to account on this.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

http://www.news.com.au/national/china-lashes-out-at-julie-bishop-over-comments-made-about-the-east-sea-air-defence/story-fncynjr2-1226769961127

China is not happy with Australia.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@AkashiAussie - The CCP/PLA has been 'lashing out' at Australia for some time over its close alliance to the US and Japan, using the same mangled and infantile rhetoric they use daily with Japan.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/shun-us-tiger-and-japanese-wolf-chinese-colonel-warns-20130122-2d52d.html

Australia has been one of the USA's closest allies since the the 1940s and has been on good terms with the Japanese since the 1960s, and no amount of CCP swagger and bluster is going to change that.

If push comes to shove, Australia is always going to side with our democratic allies in the region, and not with a repressive one party state hell-bent on regional hegemony.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Abbot has already said this year that Japan is our most important friend in the Asian region and the liberal party tends to favor stronger ties with the United States. During the Taiwan crisis though, Australia said it would not get involved in a potential conflict.

You can tell even by the content of the newspaper articles themselves that Australians don't understand the situation and for a lot of Australians they don't care. Despite this potentially being the beginning of a dangerous chain of events in the Pacific, Australian newspaper headlines are about Justin Beiber doing some graffiti, Lara Bingle's cellulite and a whole bunch of other crap.

Chinese government funded education has overtaken the universities and money is the most important reason according to a lot of Australians to further relations with our neighbors. A free trade agreement is on the cards with our largest trading partner and this will be important to a lot of people. Many Australians too are sick of following the United States into battles they don't understand and will lump this event as just another one of those events.

I have been proud of the way that Australia has responded to the rumblings out of both Indonesia and China of late, but if Bishop withdraws her complaints, I will be very, very disappointed.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I hardly think Australia will be much bothered by what sort of propaganda complaints the Chinese make. No one really cares about it any more. It has gotten too extreme to be taken seriously really.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I wouldn't consider getting support from America's lackeys international support.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

smithinjapanNov. 27, 2013 - 11:34AM JST "But Korean Air and its South Korean rival Asiana Airlines said none of their planes flying through the zone were >reporting in advance to China."

Hang on a sec! I thought Ossan said South Korea doesn't have the gall Japan does! Guess he was wrong again.

No smith I'm not wrong.

"Japanese airlines said Wednesday they had stopped following rules set by China when it unilaterally declared the right to manage the skies over the East China Sea. "

Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/535781/japanese-airlines-stop-obeying-chinas-air-zone-rules#ixzz2ly7gFDRA Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This pattern of behavior can be traced since the 1940s. China invaded Tibet, Korea, Russia, India, Vietnam and now Japan when the USA was weak, distracted or just plain stupid and immoral. Now again China is seizing the moment to expand her borders. Napoleon warned us over 200 years ago: "China is a sleeping giant, don't wake her up or she will rule the world." There is nothing unusual about this, every country is eager to create or explore a vacuum to expand its boundaries in proportion to its population growth. The difference now is that China has the power and the wealth and the USA has lost its virtue and is bankrupt (see "The March of Folly" p. 374). Hillary Clinton recently said "how can you argue with your banker?" This is a life or death struggle for water, oil and other limited resources that is evolving and China is positioning herself in a superior position to take what it needs.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

China needs to understand there are consequences for aggressive behavior and the rest of the world needs to come together and express and give warning to China that consequences will come into play. That is all it would take. China's path forward for wealth depends on participation within the international community, without it China will become nothing as before.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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