politics

Japan ruling party shelves submitting LGBT bill to Diet session

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It’s again old men unable to ascertain its 2021 not 1930, not only can they not accept change, but are terrified by anything that that doesn’t fit this narrow view of what they dream a perfect society should be. Really is more terrifying to see these same people lead Japan into to future.

-3 ( +19 / -22 )

Doesn’t this issue concern legislation on possible and continued potential “discrimination in Japan?

... “In places like the UK, ... “

Moderators: Can you please keep this “on topic” today?

-5 ( +11 / -16 )

:::Rolls eyes::::

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Another temporary setback for Japan’s LGBTQ+ community by the ruling political party.

Yet, it may be an indication they will cancel the Games

“The committee aimed to pass it in the current Diet session before July 23

and don’t have to acknowledge ‘external influences’

to reflect the Olympic Charter, which includes a statement prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.” -

against how they persist in controlling all of Japan’s people.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

The decision was made amid difficulties in reaching consensus between LDP lawmakers, with some conservative factions voicing strong objection to the bill and stalling the approval process at the party's General Council.

LDP lawmakers taking time out of their busy schedules addressing the issues of a nation in a pandemic, recession and about to hold an Olympics to stall on this issue.

Your tax yen at work.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

This is not something that government needs to get involved in.

-1 ( +14 / -15 )

Knuckle-dragging Nippon Kaigi throwbacks reveal their true colours. Just in time for the Olympics.

Excellence

Friendship

Respect

Determination

Courage

Equality

Inspiration

Nope, none of those on show here.

7 ( +19 / -12 )

Tomoko Tamura, policy chief of the Japanese Communist Party, said the LDP's handling of the bill is problematic as it "goes against the elimination of discrimination."

So trans activism is being by pushed by the Communists - just like everywhere else.

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

Well done Japan for not falling for this nonsense.... at least not yet. Discrimination is bad but forcing others to "believe" in something fundamentally inaccurate such as trans "women" being women is equally bad.

12 ( +23 / -11 )

This is not something that government needs to get involved in.

Why not, Bertie?

2 ( +10 / -8 )

This is not something that government needs to get involved in.

Agreed. Individual rights are protected under current laws. Sexual preference is an individual right.

Keep the government out of the bedroom. They are screwing around with you enough from outside of it.

6 ( +14 / -8 )

Tomoko Tamura, policy chief of the Japanese Communist Party, said the LDP's handling of the bill is problematic as it "goes against the elimination of discrimination."

So trans activism is being by pushed by the Communists - just like everywhere else.

Yes cultural Marxism is a real thing and is the foremost danger to societies everywhere. It is right there in the Communist Manifesto: To each according to his/her/their needs; to each according to his/her/their gender preference.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

More foot-dragging from narrow-minded Luddites who dream of forcing the world back into their tiny little mid-set; I've never understood what these people are so terrified of.

Well we have won tougher battles than this, and we also have the advantage of time. Those sad, scared old men will not be around forever - we will.

-5 ( +9 / -14 )

Good, don't give in to the pronoun police forcing people to think the same way as them.

3 ( +14 / -11 )

I don't agree Mr Kipling, with the two points

Discrimination is bad but forcing others to "believe" in something fundamentally inaccurate such as trans "women" being women is equally bad.

Transwomen being women is not fundamentally inaccurate, it's fundamentally wrong.

Discrimination is bad but forcing others to believe is worse

1 ( +10 / -9 )

So trans activism is being by pushed by the Communists - just like everywhere else.

What a silly comment. The few communist countries left are hostile to LBGT rights. Marx and Engels were openly homophobic. According to the Constitution of China, monogamy is the only form of legal marriage in the country. Same-sex couples are unable to marry or adopt, and households headed by such couples are ineligible for the same legal protections available to heterosexual couples. Among communist parties that are in actual governments their opposition to homosexuality is universal, including Communist parties with members elected to the parliaments of western nations such as Greece. There are occasions of communist parties in the west that do not have members elected to their nation's legislature who state a policy of supporting gay rights but those instances are comparatively rare. The Chairman of the Communist Party of Finland is gay. But the American Socialist Workers Party released a memo stating that gay oppression had less "social weight" than black and women's struggles, and prohibited members from being involved in gay political organizations. They also believed that too close an association with gay liberation would give the SWP an exotic image and alienate it from the masses.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Thank you @Howaitosan for always keeping “The Conversation” civil ‘with comments focused on the issues’ and not against individual posters.

“Well, we have won tougher battles than this, and we also have the advantage of time. Those sad, scared old men will not be around forever - we will.” -

Everyone can have an opinion, “for, or against” a topic. - Much to be learned from your example.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

The LDP's pulling out at the last moment demonstrates a failure of nerve on the part of politicians whose powers of imagination don't extend beyond dirty minds.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

This is too bad, I was hoping one good effect of the stupid Olympics would be to help Japan push to modernize a little. But, too many dinosaurs in the LDP for that to happen. It's so sad the way they stop and progress, from updating rape laws to anti-discrimination laws, from sustainable energy investments to school reform. Every attempt at real progress is just blocked by these guys! I really feel sad for the future of Japan with these guys in the driver's wheel. They're so focused on maintaining the status quo, like it's 1950 all the time.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Oldest political trick ever and very a predicable outcome given LDP has a majority in both houses and could just push any law they wanted through the system and, outside of some vocal backlash from a very small group of people, there won't be any negative consequences.

My suggestion for those wanting an official government stance would be to decouple the definitions of discrimination and harassment, provide a framework for what is digitally and IRL constitutes both explicitly and try again.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

decouple the definitions of discrimination and harassment, provide a framework for what is digitally and IRL constitutes both explicitly

Not sure I understand this???

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Equality is definitely not a priority to anyone in the LDP.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

How about government action against the most discriminated and disadvantaged group of all?....the poor.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

That’s a relief. So we’re not going to have to see trans women going into the women’s restrooms, at least not for the time being.

How would you even know the difference?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

How would you even know the difference?

The tranx will disrupt the environment and let you know about their life choices even if your not interested or lacking care

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

"Discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity is unacceptable" among its philosophical ideals.

Hells teeth, this statement is a human right.

Not open to debate. Discriminations of this nature is unacceptable in any democratic society.

The public need the names politician's questioning such a statement.

These politicians must represent all of there constituents.

Also, at committee stage, all minutes must be published.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Desert TortoiseToday  09:40 am JST

That’s a relief. So we’re not going to have to see trans women going into the women’s restrooms, at least not for the time being.

How would you even know the difference?

Most aren't even remotely convincing.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Most aren't even remotely convincing.

Logically, how would you know this. Have all the ones that convinced you come and told you after that they convinced you and you didn't realize? Nope. They went by, you thought they were the gender they present as, and you had no clue.

The likelihood is that you've been convinced lots, and just didn't realize.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@Desert Tortoise

Well said in all of your posts. The only problem is that some people's feelings don't care about your facts.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Post Greater Awareness??? Look, if people want to be like this, that is fine with me. But don't bring to my side of tracks and don't try to talk me into accepting it.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

They went by, you thought they were the gender they present as, and you had no clue.

I can't see a problem there.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Re: @8:18am DesertTortoise and @ 7:58am dagon:

- “There are occasions of communist ‘parties’ in the west that do not have members elected to their nation's legislature who state a policy of supporting gay rights but those instances are comparatively rare.

Looks like the “Japanese Communist Party” is also distancing themselves from what they now refer to as “The Chinese Party”:

*- “The Chinese Party” calls itself 'socialist' and 'communist,' but its great-power chauvinism, hegemonism and violations of human rights have nothing to do with 'socialism' and are not worthy of the term 'communism,'" Kazuo Shii, the JCP leader asserted. - "We can't stand to be lumped together with them," a senior JCP official said.*

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Inside-Japanese-politics/Japanese-Communist-Party-s-long-goodbye-to-its-China-comrades -
-3 ( +0 / -3 )

In any society, the rights of the majority should be paramount.

OK, but not at the expense of a deliberately disadvantaged or cruelly persecuted minority, textbook examples of this slippery slope and the extremes it can lead to being those furnished by Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. Kindness not cruelty should guide us in making decisions that promote social change.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

In any society, the rights of the majority should be paramount.

I don't know about other countries but the US Constitution has a bill of rights that includes amendments specifically designed to protect the rights of minorities against the dictatorship of the majority. The US Government not only limits the powers of the Federal Government but limits the power of the majority to usurp the rights of minority groups.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Aaah, I should have said "The US Constitution not only limits the powers of the Federal Government ..."

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Looks like the “Japanese Communist Party” is also distancing themselves from what they now refer to as “The Chinese Party”:

Worried what happens to them if fighting erupts between China and Japan?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The tranx will disrupt the environment and let you know about their life choices even if your not interested or lacking care

This statement ignores the historical fact that groups who consider their rights having been usurped will stage demonstrations and even rebellions seeking to gain their rights. The noise is being made because a government and society won't accept them and denies them opportunities available to others.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

As long as Japan was going to be seen by the world for the Olympics, the Liberal Democratic Party was willing to toe the line for being open for other groups that are not popular. Now, with they Olympics due to be canceled because of the continuing Pandemic in Japan there is no reason now to be helpful to LGBT anymore.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

ridiculous idea that gay people are going to suddenly choose to be heterosexual if we don't allow them to be themselves

Agree. This and the fact that physically producing babies isn't the only way society works and survives.

Also, there are ways for homosexuals to conceive, just like there are ways for straight couples that have difficulty conceiving.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Let's see the foreign press pick this up and the LDP oyajis suck teeth as they get embarrassed on international stage for not even being able to pass anti discrimination bill prior to Olympics ( with all it's grandiose posturing about equality and fairness ). Pass the popcorn.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Burning BushToday 11:44 am JST

Adults can choose to do whatever they want in their private bedrooms.

Adults can also choose to apply whatever pronouns they wish when speaking.

Adults can also chose to be kind or cruel; chose to be bigoted or tolerant; can chose to allow ignorance and prejudice to dictate their beliefs, or can educate themselves and base their beliefs on fact.

Lies and exaggerations about LGBTQIA persist despite the years and years that the LGBTQIA community and its allies have spend on educating people.

The best way to solve that problem is further education - the Japanese government clearly doesn't want that.

And this:

In places like the UK, Lesbians are being called Transphobes because they refuse to date Transwomen (especially if they retain their male genitals)

Is not even close to being true.

You speak as if this is how all lesbians think and believe, but it's only a very small portion of them. There are radicals in every movement, and it's disengenous to present those radicals as if they represent the whole.

The fact is, many lesbians date transgender women. I have known several such couples.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Burning BushToday 10:49 am JST

How about people who identify as Transbians (Trans-Lesbians)?

These are people who are physical male but consider themselves to be women who are attracted to women. In effect, they are fully biological men who admit they are sexually attracted to women. Should they be treated as women, with full access to onsens, changing rooms and hospital wards because identify as women?

transwomen are women.

some transwomen are lesbians.

Yes, of course. There is no logical reason to deny transwomen the same rights as cisgender women.

Denying a group of people equal treatment because of their gender expression aka, discriminating against them due solely to a prejudice based on fear and ignorance, is bigotry. And bigotry should not be tolerated.
-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Mr Kipling Today 07:57 am JST

Well done Japan for not falling for this nonsense.... at least not yet. Discrimination is bad but forcing others to "believe" in something fundamentally inaccurate such as trans "women" being women is equally bad.

No one can force you to believe something that you don't. It's a physical and mental impossibility.

What you are really talking about is the way in which society is moving towards accepting LGBTQIA, and with that, denouncing bigotry against them.

This means that people who espouse bigoted views are being called out in ways that they were not in the past.

This is the change that you seem to be upset about - i.e., that it is no longer acceptable to speak in a derogatory way about sexual minorities.

This doesn't mean that people are being forced to change their mind. What it means is that if someone decides to voice a bigoted view, the people around them will not tolerate it.

Also? All the major professional psychological associations, including those in Japan, recognize that transwomen are, fundamentally, the same as women. In other words, you are dead wrong.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

girl-in-tokyo....

transwomen are women.

No, trans "women" are men who want to be women. Regardless of whether you, them or anyone else believes them to be women, they are not. This is the real issue. Pointing out this simple fact is not discrimination. Not allowing them to rent an apartment or firing them from their job for being "trans" probably is.

I'm bald, if I wore a wig, I'd still be bald. We could all pretend and make me feel better by saying I had a lovely head of hair... but it wouldn't be true.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

transwomen are women.

No, trans "women" are men who want to be women.

They're trans-women. What is it with people lacking the mental ability to recognize that sometimes there are things that they didn't know about before, that exist now, and are a different thing, not one of the previous references to which they were limited to.

In other words, you're both wrong.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

 Pointing out this simple fact is not discrimination. Not allowing them to rent an apartment or firing them from their job for being "trans" probably is.

You might be bald, but who knows, and who cares? Children's tennis vs adults tennis, men vs trans, hair vs bald. Which is it? You like pointing a finger but it never takes us anywhere. Right before you land the blow you pull up short with a maybe, a could be, a might be... a wink wink, a nudge nudge. So look K, ok, it's not the hair piece Im interested in see? Benefit of the doubts. Fine peoples on both "sides"

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@burning Bush, I don't think most people think that transwomen and ciswomen are 100%the same, in the same way a person in a wheel chair and an able bodied person are not 100% the same. Everyone knows there are biological or physical differences, which is why many transgender people take surgeries and hormones. There's really no "got'cha" with your point. That's why there are 2 words, transwomen or ciswomen. Because everyone recognizes there are differences.

The point is that they shouldn't be discriminated against in terms of jobs, housing, harrassment on the street, etc because of these differences. In the same way you wouldn't make fun of a person in a wheel chair for not being able to walk or deny them a job. Of course, within reason. A person in a wheelchair could easily work a computer job, but could not be a firefighter. They can live in an apartment with elevators, but no in one without. Etc.

The main idea behind these laws is to help protect transgender people in their regular everyday life. Focusing on "translesbians" who don't transition and want to go to an onsen and get turned on, is really not the normal thing that people are talking about. I think you're really getting off-topic.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I have a hard time wrapping my head around transgender stuff, but two YouTubers who helped me to understand were Contrapoints and Philosophy Tube. The former has videos up only post-transition, and the later has videos up from both pre- and post-transition. They both helped me understand this stuff better, as I don't know any trans people in real life. I think they're both talented at educating people in an entertaining and thoughtful way.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@ Desert Tortoise

One of the fundamental issues the alphabet community has is communicating concepts outside of their group. Currently, within the trans and community you have the concept of deadnaming and misgendering which the affected person can take subjectively as a mistake, a form of harassment, discrimination, or a mixture of the three depending on how they feel. So how is someone outside of the community objectively not step on a social, and potentially legal "landmine", without walking on eggshells?

Now you will say "Just be polite", but we don't really design laws to be polite, but to promote safety, which can be done indirectly through promoting equality. But this also can not be done to the point of creating a protected class. Unfortunately as long as the two are conflated and not objectively addressed, it will be difficult for others outside of the community to feel the need or empathy to change or add laws.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

In 2021 Japan ruling party struggles to pass laws that guarantees basically that people should be treated equally and that discrimination won’t be tolerated.

Pathetic, sad, disappointing.

This is the opposite of “No country for old men”..

2 ( +5 / -3 )

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