Japan, Russia agree to expand defense cooperation

A very difficult partner to deal with. Don't let your guard down.

Pragmatic.

Take note china japan has a new best friend on the block , who might just be bigger enough to kick your ass.

Poor, Poor Beijing!! They be messing too much with Japan, and trying to mix up the so called new world order. Now poor, poor Beijing has to respect MOSCOW and Tokyo too!!

The NSA knew about this agreement before they did.

I would like to think that Japan could only fortify relations between the USA and Russia with these talks. I firmly believe Russia is at a major turning point in global security and the three countries working together would have a huge impact in dealing with countries that pose a threat to stability in the pacific region....China pay heed to this. Power takeover isn't a move that should be used.

The J cops still have to posted around the Russian embassy 24-7 to keep away the uyoku who continue to demand that the Russians return the islands off Hokkaido they stole at the end of the war.

Love russia. Weird and dangerous but a great country to be friends with. Hope that Lenin is seeing this

Elbuda MexicanoNov. 02, 2013 - 07:09PM JST

Poor, Poor Beijing!! They be messing too much with Japan, and trying to mix up the so called new world order. Now poor, poor Beijing has to respect MOSCOW and Tokyo too!!

Beijing has great relations with Russia.

They did 130 billion dollars of trade with Russia this year, while Japan did a paltry 30 billion dollars of trade with Russsia.

They held the biggest naval exercises ever with the Russian navy this July.

The first country that the Chinese PM visited was Russia.

They're in a project to build gas pipelines from Russia to China by 2017.

Some of you who post on here need a reality check. Just because Japan had a low level ministerial meeting with Russia , you think they've become the best of pals. Japan has no pals, apart from the fish, even Obama can't stand to meet Abe. Their belief in their own uniqueness, inhibits any sense of empathy on the international stage: the US and their marines are a necessary evil, but they can't stand them.

And anyone who knows anything about Japan knows that in a couple of months she'll be throwing her toys out of her pram claiming the 4 islands are hers and it's her way or the highway, and we'll be back at square one.

Defense cooperation? Defense cooperation from what? China owns 80% of the US's debt and both countries conduct war-games together. China and the US are buddies. And the last I've heard the US still occupies Japan. OK, next North Korea. North Korea is a business partner with the US weapons manufacturers. Every time NK threatens Japan with a missile Japan buys more Patriot missiles from the US (Chicago-style protection racket for profit). So WHO IS JAPAN'S ENEMY? NO ONE. Japan is a dupe and has been since 1945.

DogNov. 02, 2013 - 09:12PM JST Elbuda MexicanoNov. 02, 2013 - 07:09PM JST "Poor, Poor Beijing!! They be messing too much with Japan, and trying to mix up the so called new world order. Now poor, poor Beijing has to respect MOSCOW and Tokyo too!!" Beijing has great relations with Russia.

Sorry to burst your bubble dog but Russia also has a Pacific Fleet and he idea of China declaring that they are going to become the dominant strategic power in the region does not sit well them completely. Furthermore Russia has towns along their side of the border becoming sino-zed by hordes of Chinese workers that have been a concern for many years. And hey aren't stupid enough to think that Chinese territorial expansion notions don't take the Russian fareast into account. AS for citing amounts of trade, EVERYBODY does trade with China but that is not what directs strategic policy.

OssanAmericaNov. 02, 2013 - 10:36PM JST

Sorry to burst your bubble dog but Russia

You really are living in a different world.... Russia and China have excellent relations.

The first foreign visit by Xi was to Russia. The have a general consensus on foreign policies from Syria to ... wait for it.... the USA is their main geo-political threat...They both chair the SCO, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which is also critical of US policy in the Middle East and Afghanistan...

They have been holding joint miltary exercises since the 2005 Peace Mission exercise which was the largest joint exercise for the PRC up to that time, involving some 7,000 Chinese and nearly 2,000 Russian troops, as well as helicopters, long-range bombers and fighters, and a variety of naval forces. Four subsequent, smaller Peace Mission exercises have involved not only Russian and Chinese troops, but also units from the other SCO members.

In 2012, Russia and China held their first purely bilateral military exercises, involving naval combatants and naval aviation from both nations. The two navies practiced convoy operations, maritime air defense, and anti-submarine warfare operations together. This year, the two navies exercised outside Vladivostok, the home of the Russian Pacific Fleet. Their maneuvers are seen, in part, as aimed at countering the U.S.–Japanese alliance.

Please do a little research before you opine. This is not 1968, this 2013.

My enemy's enemy is my friend??!

Love russia. Weird and dangerous but a great country to be friends with. Hope that Lenin is seeing this

Lenin?? Oh, Good grief!

DogNov. 02, 2013 - 11:57PM JST OssanAmericaNov. 02, 2013 - 10:36PM JST Sorry to burst your bubble dog but Russia You really are living in a different world.... Russia and China have excellent relations.

Well in this world Japan holds 2+2 meetings with only the United States and Australia, both considered by China to be adversaries. This article shouldn't exist if Sino-Russian relations were truly "excellent".

C wiidNov. 02, 2013 - 09:39PM JST China owns 80% of the US's debt and both countries conduct war-games together.

No they don't. The US owns the majority of US debt. China comes in 2nd. US debt falls on the taxpayers and the value of the USD.

Should Russia and Japan get along better and get their concerns over defense taken care of, China will have a lot of cranky neighbors that will not allow them to mess with their borders.

Sure China and Russia may be getting along now, but Russia isn't run by fools and as far as I know China hasn't been stupid enough to mess with Russian borders like they have been doing with other countries.

I believe that this could be the first step towards much better relationships between Japan and Russia--and could open the door to finally resolving the Northern Territories (the westernmost of the Kuril Islands--Iturup, Kunashir, Shikotan and the tiny Khabomai Rocks) dispute.

OssanAmericaNov. 03, 2013 - 01:20AM JST Well in this world Japan holds 2+2 meetings with only the United States and Australia, both considered by China to be >adversaries. This article shouldn't exist if Sino-Russian relations were truly "excellent".

And in this world, China holds bilateral defense and other military meetings with your country, USA, and Russia and also with many other countries.

A forward and friendly relationship between Japan and Russia will benefit not only those two countries but also other Asian countries and the world as a whole.

Guru29Nov. 03, 2013 - 04:13AM JST "Japan, Russia agree to expand defense cooperation" defense cooperation? Don't forget Uncle Sam is the commander of Japan's defense, not Shinzo Abe. Too bad that >Uncle Sam did not send any representative to this conference.

Incorrect. Japan is responsible for it's own defense. The U.S. is involved only if the Mutual Defense Treaty is invoked.

OssanAmericaNov. 03, 2013 - 01:20AM JST

Well in this world Japan holds 2+2 meetings with only the United States and Australia, both considered by China to be adversaries. This article shouldn't exist if Sino-Russian relations were truly "excellent".

Well it might be so in your world, but in the real world, Japan holds 2 + 2 meetings with other countries such as India as well.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-japan-to-hold-second-2-2-dialogue-on-monday/article4006751.ece

And India has very close relations with both Russia and China!!!!

@Dog

Yes, PRC may hold 2+2 meetings with India and/or US but for what?

The last I heard PRC does not have any defense cooperation with either nations. I believe that is the difference.

SamuraiBlueNov

@Dog Yes, PRC may hold 2+2 meetings with India and/or US but for what?

What are you talking about?

I was pointing out that unlike what Ossan was claiming all over this site, Japan held 2 + 2 meetings with more countries than just Russia, Australia and the US. I gave India as another example and sourced it.

As a matter of fact I believe that Abe is so desperate to walk big on the international stage that if Monaco asked for 2 + 2 talks with Japan, Japan would set them up by the end of the week.

I never mentioned China in my post.... Jeeesuuuuzzz !!!!!!!!!

Sorry to burst your bubble dog but Russia also has a Pacific Fleet and he idea of China declaring that they are going to become the dominant strategic power in the region does not sit well them completely. Furthermore Russia has towns along their side of the border becoming sino-zed by hordes of Chinese workers that have been a concern for many years. And hey aren't stupid enough to think that Chinese territorial expansion notions don't take the Russian fareast into account. AS for citing amounts of trade, EVERYBODY does trade with China but that is not what directs strategic policy.

In international politics, there is something call "maitain power balance". Unless Russia think they can handle the US alone, they will need China, and China needs Russia for the same reason. And this situation will lasts until one of them become stronger than the US

Dog you may want to rethink some of your ideas. What you seem to think is excellent relations is nothing but barely putting up with each other, especially if there is something to be gained. Holding joint military exercises is always a two edged venture. Of course the russians want to know how China handles their equipment and vice versa. When the time for conflict comes they will be better prepared to kill them more efficiently. And no India doesn't have good relations with China. In fact both China and India knows that the symbolic battle for the Malacca straights is just beginning. China is upsetting the balance in the region and will have to face up to it.

SentimentsNov. 03, 2013 - 04:51PM JST

. And no India doesn't have good relations with China. In fact both China and India knows that the symbolic battle for the Malacca straights is just beginning. China is upsetting the balance in the region and will have to face up to it.

News last week.

In a rare honour Singh was hosted by both Premier Li and President Xi Jinping on the same day.

Among the pacts signed during the visit was the Border Defence Cooperation Agreement (BDCA), the draft of which was cleared by the Union cabinet.

Sentiments

Holding joint military exercises is always a two edged venture

Japan is responsible for it's own defense.

Who told you that? Under the Mutual Security Treaty, the US is even allowed to transfer its military forces and equipment from all over the world to Japan without seeking permission from the Japanese government so long as it contributes to the defense of Japan. So what you said is untrue.

The U.S. is involved only if the Mutual Defense Treaty is invoked.

You mean Japan has abolished the mutual security treaty with the US and is no more an ally (protectorate) of the US? I don't think so.

If the US forces in Japan aren't for defending Japan, what are they for?

Yeah same thing Dog. No one wants to start in the northern mountains, at least not yet. At the same time they must show an interest for making the region more secure, or they risk looking like the aggressor. Its a political power game and the surface level of media reports are almost always missing the point. Thats the point. A better reading is how different analysts reports on change in the region.

Russia is a historical foe of both Japan and US. Don't you get any illusions about this. This so called "cooperation" is a farce. It's as useless as the so-called cooperation when they meet Obama.

Sure enough Russia sent that plane to intimidate (and humiliate) Japan just when these meetings are happening. They did this last time too, when Abe went to patronize Putin. The truth is that Putin see US as arch rival. If Japan is an ally of the US, than you are not a friend of Russia.

Abe seems to get on well with Putin rather than Obama. He has met Putin four times this year. Abe as a rare move for the vassal state premier supported Putin when Obama tried to start a military intervention in Syria. Russia's defense ties with Japan may be not only for reducing tensions with Japan but also for checking its longtime ally China's coming into the Sea of Okhotsk and up into the Arctic Ocean. Russians are very practical people. Also as a supplier of LNG with its geographical vicinity to Japan, Russia makes its presence increasingly felt when Japan's import volume of fossil fuel increases expanding its trade deficit.

Dog is completely right here. This doesn't amount to much, no matter how much some Japanese would like to see it as a rapprochement. Russia will never be an enemy to China, there's too long a history of friendship and cooperation (border conflicts notwithstanding). Besides, these two do not have anything to argue about. China needs Russian oil, Russia needs Chinese cheap goods. The Pacific is not as such a sphere of Russian interests as long as it's not in enemy hands. If China is friendly to Russia, Russians will stay out of Pacific disputes. Simple as that.

Russia is a historical foe of both Japan and US.

Rubbish and silly US-made propaganda.

No I dont think historic friendship will mean much when it comes down to it. Russia put up with China for as long as they were dependent on them for tech. If China tries to expand too much Russia will of course do what they can to stop them, to protect their interest in the same way as the US. Nothing strange with that.

I don't think Japan knows how to learn from history. First, why did Japan go to war with Russia in 1904? Japan thought they had good relations with Russia during WWII and asked Russia to broker a peace with the Allies. Russia broke the non-aggression treaty with Japan and attacked and kept attacking for two weeks after Japan surrendered. Russia still hold the northern islands of Japan. It doesn't looks like they will return them. So on what basis does Japan think they can have a defend pact with Russia. Sounds like Poland all over again but this time Japan is Poland, Russia is the USSR, and China is Germany. The question is when will Sept 1, 1938 repeat? And will Korea play the part of Slovakia.

As Russian, I wanna say that nowadays Russian policy is based on the principle of emperor Alexander III: "Russia has only two allies: the army and the navy" . So Japan and China are not allies or enemies. Russia is interested only in partnership in economy and in local problems solving. Russia never does not accept China as an ally, only partner with similar interests. And, of course, there are some conflicts of interests between Russia and China, for example, in Central Asia, arms export and Russian military technology theft by China. But with China is much more easier to cooperate in economic affairs and investments. Relations with Japan are affected primarily because of Japanese prejudice.

Japanese calls Russia osoroshia(i think, most people on this site will understand wordplay). Actually I think Japanese businessmen are pussies and they're victims of stereotyping. Because of it, for example, automobile companies in Russia with best sales are Lada, Renault, Kia, Hyundai. Toyota and Nissan are on 7-8 places. Electronics company with best position in Russia is Samsung, not Sony. Japanese companies lost positions on Russian market.

I think Russia has best relationships in Eastern Asia with South Korea, not China. This is an example that Russia can make business even with US allies. But Japanese people prejudice about Russia and territorial conflict slow nichiro relationships.

About territorial conflict: most Russian people perceives South Kuril islands(Hoporyodo) as a trophy or fee like Germanese Königsberg(Kaliningrad). Japan owned south Sakhalin and whole Kuril islands as trophy after Russian-Japanese War. So full return of the islands will be perceived by Russian people as betrayal of memory of the lost people in WWII. USSR lost about 25 million people in WWII (for example, Japan lost during WWII about 3 million people), yeah of course, mostly because of war with the nazis. But 25 million is more than whole Taiwan population. It's still biggest tragedy of Russian people, so results of WWII for Russian people are sacred. Non-aggression treaty with Japan - Soviet Union had such treaty with Germany, so what? Treaty doesn't help, war is not for pussies which tryin' to protect themselves by treaties. Only possible solution for nowadays is return of only Shikotan and Habomai, as planned by Soviet Union and Japan declaration from 1956. But even that option will reduce president's popularity in Russia and would be reason of mutiny. But Japan refuses this option and claim all islands. Too naive, I think.

Because of it, for example, automobile companies in Russia with best sales are Lada, Renault, Kia, Hyundai. Toyota and Nissan are on 7-8 places. Electronics company with best position in Russia is Samsung, not Sony. Japanese companies lost positions on Russian market.

ROTFL. Which "best sales of LADA, Renault, Kia, Hyundai" you are talking about?! Speak for your native "Moscow district", please. Japanese-made home consumer electronics and cars are EXTREMELY popular in Siberia and Russian Far East.

It seems the 2+2 meeting is an utter failure for Shinzo Abe just like his suicidal Abenomics which was designed to boost Japan's export but actually achieved the exact opposite to its objective.

And it seems Obama was really upset by Shinzo Abe that he even asked his Pentagon spokesman to publicly announce that the US has no plans to defend the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands jointly with Japan around the time when the 2+2 meeting was held. This is tantamount to a slap on Japan.

And during the 2+2 meeting, the Russian FM even advised Japan to respect its pacifist constitution and develop pacifist policies. When Japanese FM mentioned that Russia understands and respects Japan's defense policy, the Russian FM clarified that according to Russia's understanding, Japan will strictly adhere to its commitment of resolving all conflicts through peaceful conversation. This is tantamount to another slap on the Japanese expansionists.

Only possible solution for nowadays is return of only Shikotan and Habomai

I don't think that is necessary since Japan has already given up its claim to the whole of Kurile islands in Article 2 (c) of the San Francisco Peace Treaty which says

"Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Kurile Islands, and to that portion of Sakhalin and the islands adjacent to it over which Japan acquired sovereignty as a consequence of the Treaty of Portsmouth of 5 September 1905."