Japan says it, not S Korea, should have taken action on Russian plane

I give the Korean's credit for having the cojones to fire warning shots at the plane! If it had been the Japanese, by the time they got an "ok" to fire the jet sent up to confront the plane would have crashed from lack of fuel!

If it was Japan's responsibility, why didn't Japan do anything?

It is Japan's fault for deliberately not patrolling the area to avoid conflicts with South Korea. Granted, the Liancourt Rocks are Japanese from Japan's perspective. And they are South Korean from South Korea's perspective. In truth both the ROKAF and JASDF should have jointly challenged the Russian intruders. At least from a U.S. perspective. But the only reason that isn't happening is because South Korea maintains it's chip-on-the-shoulder anti-Japan political agenda that had resulted in the current frosty relations. South Koreans need to ask themselves whether hating Japan is more important than protecting their country. This is incongruous as Japan is not South Korea's enemy, it's just tired of being treated like one.

If Japan fired at planes entering from China and Russia hundreds of times a year we would end up with a war on our hands.

This type of patrols are annoying, not welcomed even by Japan, but becoming aggressive and firing shots with the possibility of aircraft being lost and pilots dead, it's dumb.

Interesting.... this incident could have proven to be a nice diversion from Japan's Trade Dispute with S. Korea but Japan instead decided to also have issue with S. Korea on this. To me this shows that Japan wants to keep the trade dispute on the front burner.

Japan’s airforce just sit back and let the Koreans defend your sovereignty lol!

@OssanJapan

It is Japan's fault for deliberately not patrolling the area to avoid conflicts with South Korea. 

Japan can't. It was the USA that drew the KADIZ line in 1951, and even back then the US understood the Liancourt Rocks to be a Korean territory and included it within the KADIZ line.

Japan accepted the US decision and drew the JADIZ line outside of the KADIZ line in the 1960s.

Russia denied violating any airspace. I wonder why we should trust the Koreans.

Russia denied violating any airspace. I wonder why we should trust the Koreans.

Why should we trust the Russians? Not to mention it's both the Koreans and Japanese claiming the Russians violated the airspace over Liancourt Rocks.

Japan says it, not S Korea, should have taken action on Russian plane

Then why didn't you?

@Chip Star: again, why should we trust the Koreans rather than the Russians? Why should we trust the Americans rather than Iran? The problem is the same. Why shouldn't we consider both the points of view when things like this happen?

Russia denied violating any airspace. I wonder why we should trust the Koreans.

@Alex80 - Japan is also claiming the Russians violated their airspace. So Japanese are not trustworthy in your opinion? Good to know.

"It is Japan that should take action against the Russian plane that entered its airspace. It is incompatible with Japan's stance that South Korea takes steps on that," Kono said.

"It is Japan that should take action against the Russian plane that entered its airspace. It is incompatible with Japan's stance that South Korea takes steps on that," Kono said.

You might think “then why didn’t you?” Japan did well in exercising restraint. This isn’t neglect or incompetence but being calm and not adding fuel to the fire.

The Koreans are quite literally cousins of the Japanese-If we can’t trust cousins then who can we trust?

It's rather weird Russia starts to annoy South Korea when only some days ago, it looked like it could supply South Korea of one material for its chip making industry.

@Chip Star: again, why should we trust the Koreans rather than the Russians? Why should we trust the Americans rather than Iran? The problem is the same. Why shouldn't we consider both the points of view when things like this happen?

We should consider all points of view, but that's not what your original post said.

@Heckleberry: of course, in this case, I doubt also about Japanese claims against Russia. But at least Japan didn't take any action, only complained.

@Chip Star: my original post is based on the fact all comments posted before mine trusted the Korean claims and supported their aggressive action. Again, we should consider both the points of view. And, again, I wonder why should Russia annoy South Korea right now, when only some days ago it offered to supply some material to Korean chip makers?

Yubaru

Firing rounds is not Japans style and thankfully so.

Did you know that Russia in the 80s or 90s shot down a Korean Plane with over 200 Koreans and killed them all? It also supported the North in the war.

Its not cajones. Its knowing history.

Well done to Russia for triggering two countries at the same time.

Kono san missed it completely!

Russia and China joining hands to exert defacto controls over contested airspace, teasing out a reaction from below, and Kono san chooses to fight the Koreans on the ground instead of leading a coalition with the Koreans to defend airspace that they are both claiming.

True leadership qualities there! NOT. Suggests Abe san politely ask Kono san to leave foreign relation to someone else and join the cast of the Thunderbirds as a new career (he's got the eyebrows already).

Asian threesome.

Some tidbit.

During the ADIZ showdown, the ROKAF sent out 18 fighter jets, JASDF 10.

It turns out that the ROKAF can send out far more fighter jets than the JASDF can during times like this.

This gap is set to increase further over the next decade, as the ROKAF switches over to domestically produced KFX jets while JASDF switches to the F-35 with a notoriously low readiness rate(Currently at 30~50%).

Not only the JASDF will have half the number of fighter jets relative to the ROKAF, but the fleet readiness will be far lower(80% for the ROKAF vs 50% for JASDF).

Russia and China will then decide that Japan would be an easier picking than Korea and target the weaker country of the US alliance.

Kono is too arrogant and unfit to be foreign minister.

Kono san missed it completely!

Totally. This was a long-planned joint mission by Russian and Chinese planes:

"Russia carried out what it said was its first long-range joint air patrol in the Asia-Pacific region with China on Tuesday, a mission that triggered hundreds of warning shots, according to South Korean officials, and a strong protest from Japan.

The flight by two Russian Tu-95 strategic bombers and two Chinese H-6 bombers, backed up by a Russian A-50 early warning plane and its Chinese counterpart, a KJ-2000, marks a notable ramping-up of military cooperation between Beijing and Moscow."

There's a far more informative Reuters article here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-russia-aircraft-idUSKCN1UI072

Which contains a rather disturbing quote:

"Dmitri Trenin, director of the Carnegie Moscow Center and a former colonel in the Russian army, predicted Russian-Chinese joint air patrols would soon be common in the region.

“Such patrols will become a regular feature under a new agreement soon to be signed between Moscow and Beijing,” Trenin said on Twitter. “Russo-Chinese entente grows thicker.”"

Not good news for the region, to put it mildly.

Funny how the Japanese government belatedly comes up with a story saying that they scrambled jets to intercept the Russian and Chinese planes to show its people that Dokdo is its territory. So where were they Abe?

I just read some Russian newspapers in English, and they deny both they violated any airspace AND the fact that South Koreans fired some warning shots. Eh, which is the Truth?

I guess you would have to believe Russia because of their reputation for having a free and open press, right?

...right?

@Strangerland: You are right, but I think the last decades showed us that Western press isn't better.

@ pacificwest

The USA has never accept or "understood" Takeshima is Korean territory.

Even you know that.

I don't know how you people can spend your lives online posting the exact opposite of the truth, day in, day out.

It will rot your soul out eventually.

Actually the USA did understand. It's the Japanese government (yet again!) reneging on an agreement which was made with the US.

Dokdo was Korean until the Japanese illegally seized it during the occupation. It was then rightfully returned to Korea after Japan's surrender in WWII under SCAPIN (1946):

SCAPIN-677 Article 3: For the purpose of this directive, Japan is defined to include … excluding (a) Utsuryo (Ullung) Island, Liancourt Rocks [(Dokdo)]…and Quelpart (Saishu or Cheju) Island …

It's such a shame that so many Japanese blindly follow the government's fake stories.

Before you know it, the government will start making stories that Cheju and Ullung are Japanese territories as well and its people will start to blindly follow that narrative as well.

Strangerland: You are right, but I think the last decades showed us that Western press isn't better.

Yes it has. Russia ranks waaaaaaaay below most western powers when it comes to press freedoms.

Violating the airspace like this is sure annoying and against the rules.

But, this is not worth shooting the plane down, taking the risk of starting a war.

SK, we're all fed up with your short temper.

@Strangerland: whatever you like to think. I improved my critical skills since I started to read newspapers from all over the world, and of every political orientation. Later I put the pieces together. At the moment, I don't see why Russia needed to annoy South Korean left winger Moon. I need more "pieces". ;)

I improved my critical skills since I started to read newspapers from all over the world, and of every political orientation. 

Good for you, but what does this have to do with your silly assertion that western and Russian news are anything even remotely comparable in credibility?

@Strangerland: look, after I read Western, Russian and Chinese press about this fact, I can tell you my theory. I doubt it's true Russia violated South Korean airspace. This fact is simply too convenient in this moment for Bolton mission in South Korea, where he must persuade Seoul of the need of confirming the trilateral collaboration between South Korea, US and Japan against the threat represented by Russia, China and North Korea. Of course, I could be wrong, but the timing of this supposed event is rather suspicious.

@Kazumichi

The SK weren't trying to shoot the Russian plane, they were interdicting, most likely employing well developed rules for interdiction, and firing warning rounds is not unusual at all, there are even instances where interdiction would necessitates the shooting down of small civillian aircraft.

Don't forget, the Russian might only be patrolling today, but tomorrow they could be hoovering up targets data, or disrupting friendly operations, or assert controls incrementally. What you don't defend, you will loose control of.

What a wuss. And an excuse-giving moron. If Japan's SDF was awake, it wouldn't have been the Koreans firing pointless warning shots. Machine guns? HAH! A2A missile3, Russian plane gone. Just like they've done to so many others, including passenger jets, I'll throw in to this argument for the sake of the nut-bags.

Imagine this scenario, both Japan and Korea joining forces to keep the Russians and / or the Chinese out of their space. What a powerful message. In the meantime these intruders see nothing but a dodge ball opportunity. As long as Korea & Japan are playing games there’s ample room for intruders to create havoc. Divide and conquer.

Just like a video games. Join many players in each side from different countries. Lets them play on screen where we are a fool audience

It appears that JASDF also scrambled to challenge the Russian intrusion. They simply didn't fire warning shots so didn't make the news.

"Russia-China 'joint air patrol' sees Japan and South Korea scramble jets"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49091523

"Japan's Ministry of Defense backed up South Korea's claims, saying the A-50 had flown over the islands and that Tokyo had scrambled fighters to intercept."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/asia/south-korea-russia-military-intl-hnk/index.html

＠Yaponezy

Scapin677 is a bad move Koreans still relies on

*Don't skip SCAPIN-677 Article ***6. Nothing in this directive shall be construed as an indication of Allied policy relating to the ultimate determination of the minor islands referred to in Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration.**

And...

U.S. Army Military Government - South Korea: Interim Government Activities, No.1, August 1947 

18 Representatives of the Fisheries Bureau and Korea History and Geography Association left for Ulleung-do and Tok-to on 16 August. The latter, two small islands about 40 miles southeast of Ullueng-do, is an excellent base for extend fishing operation. Formally belonging to Japan, a recent occupation directive which draw and arbitrary line demarcating Japanese and Korean fishing waters placed Tok-to within the Korean zone. Final disposition of the islands's jurisdiction awaits the peace treaty.

And...

Letter from Office of Northeast Asian Affairs To E. Allan Lightner American Embassy, Pusan Korea[

The Korean claim, based on SCAPIN 677 of January 29, 1946, which suspended Japanese administration of various island areas, including Takeshima (Liancourt Rocks), did not preclude Japan from exercising sovereignty over this area permanently. A later SCAPIN, No. 1778 of September 16, 1947 designated the islets as a bombing range for the Far East Air Force and further provided that use of the range would be made only after notification through Japanese civil authorities to the inhabitants of the Oki Islands and certain ports on Western Honsu.

There are more like these. Do you want?

Yes it has. Russia ranks waaaaaaaay below most western powers when it comes to press freedoms.

Ranking done in a western country.

It is really dangerous if one loses the ability to think rationally and critically.

It's kind of experimental tactics from the Sino-Russian side, which one of them will scramble earlier to reach them, S. Korea or Japan? Well, where is it closer? Completely a geopolitics area I am sick to know what's going on there. Never disclosed to each side people, political and military games back staged.

This is what scares me about japan changing their constitution. That will give them permission to lob shells wherever and whenever they like.

I'm with the Koreans on this one:

not because the island belongs to them but because they had the guts to fire at the intruder. Japan has become too soft & would not have fired. They need to be more AGGRESSIVE!

It'd be great if S. Korean and JASDF pilots worked together to kick out the intruders.

@ Alfie Noakes

*“Such patrols will become a regular feature under a new agreement soon to be signed between Moscow and Beijing,” Trenin said on Twitter. “Russo-Chinese entente grows thicker.”"*

Not good news for the region, to put it mildly.

This is very true . People better recognize . The Russo-Chinese alliance to curve out their own area of influence ( their own Monroe's doctrine) which, presumably, will be anything East of Hawaii under them and the US should manage West of Hawaii. They already have an economic block with quite a few countries from Central Asia and others all ex- Breton woods. New Dynamics taking shape in the area. 

The Japanese protestations here sound more like mere valueless rhetorics meant to attract attention.

@Strangerland: look, after I read Western, Russian and Chinese press about this fact, I can tell you my theory.

You still haven't explained your other "theory", that Russian press is as believeable as Western press. I'm not sure why you keep deflecting from that point and trying to redirect to other topics I haven't asked you about.

Ranking done in a western country.

Yes, where press has freedom.

Unlike in Russia, where they only have the freedom to tell what Vlad lets them.

Two Russian bombers and two Chinese bombers entered the Korea Air Defense Identification Zone (KADIZ) together early on Tuesday, South Korea's defense ministry said.

Russians and Chinese are coordinating? That is disturbing.

The Chinese and Russians think it's time for a major realignment of spheres of influence. Buckle your seat belts folks, this ride could get rocky.

Russia says sorry to Korea for "accidental" intrusion of the Korean airspace over the Liancourt Rocks.

Russia at the same time ignored Kono's protest, as Russia considers the Liancourt Rocks to be Korean territory.

http://world.kbs.co.kr/service/news_view.htm?lang=e&Seq_Code=146891

Russia Expresses Regret over Intrusion of S. Korean Airspace

Russia has expressed deep regret over its intrusion of South Korean airspace. 

Presidential Secretary for Public Relations Yoon Do-han said in a news briefing on Wednesday that Russia has informed Seoul that it will immediately launch an investigation and take all necessary measures.

SK - short temper, grumpy, annoying little neighbor wedged in between China & Japan

@ showchinmono

U.S. Army Military Government - South Korea: Interim Government Activities, No.1, August 1947 

A later SCAPIN, No. 1778 of September 16, 1947

LoL. do you know when the ROK was formed? Referring to correspondences by the US (which incidentally does not prove Japanese ownership of Dokdo at all) from a period when ROK wasn't even formed. Simply brilliant!

Scapin677 is a bad move Koreans still relies on

Not at all. Koreans don't rely on this as they have lots of historical evidence. If you read the context in which it was written, SCAPIN was one evidence to show that the US and Japan agreed that Dokdo is not part of Japanese territory.

@Hillclimber

Why even make posts about this?

Because the KFX is basically the last of 5th gen fighter to actually enter service in 2026.

No other program is expected to actually see completion. Japan abandoned its own program due to lack of funding, technology, and supplier exit.

If you want to make South Korea appear to be better than Japan

Cold Hard Reality

-Korea has own 5th gen fighter rolling out of factory in 2 years. Japan gave up.

-Korea launched first of nine SLBM subs. Japan doesn't have SLBM subs.

-Korea is also developing nuclear submarines to follow after ninth SLBM sub. Japan has no plan for nuclear submarines.

-Korea has own triple layer missile defense system. Japan doesn't have one and is buying single-layer Aegis Ashore from the US that depends on a radar feed from Korea to function.

The fact is that Japan has yet to score single arms export deal, while Korea's arms export is surging.

https://www.army-technology.com/features/arms-exports-by-country/

Arms exports by country in 2018: Ranking the ten biggest

Italy

Israel

United Kingdom

China

6. South Korea

Spain

Germany

France

Russia

USA

Russia says sorry to Korea for "accidental" intrusion of the Korean airspace over the Liancourt Rocks.

Russia at the same time ignored Kono's protest, as Russia considers the Liancourt Rocks to be Korean territory.

Ouch.

Despite pro-Japan posters and Japanese politicians claiming Dokdo as their territory, this little snippet shows the cold hard reality.

@yaponezy

@ showchinmono

U.S. Army Military Government - South Korea: Interim Government Activities, No.1, August 1947 

A later SCAPIN, No. 1778 of September 16, 1947

LoL. do you know when the ROK was formed? Referring to correspondences by the US (which incidentally does not prove Japanese ownership of Dokdo at all) from a period when ROK wasn't even formed. Simply brilliant!

Scapin677 is a bad move Koreans still relies on

Not at all. Koreans don't rely on this as they have lots of historical evidence. If you read the context in which it was written, SCAPIN was one evidence to show that the US and Japan agreed that Dokdo is not part of Japanese territory.

OK then LOL. except you are the one who brought in SCAPIN677 which was also even before SCAPIN1778

The issue with that island is that it has always had Korean residents. Even during the times when Japan controlled Korea, the residents were always Korean. All things that were ever made on the island had always been Korean. This case of Japan having control over Dokdo/Takeshima is similar to "manifest destiny."

"Japan on Tuesday criticized South Korea for taking action against a Russian plane over what Japan says is its airspace, after Japan lodged a protest against both South Korea and Russia over the incident."

Awwww.... I guess people pointing out that this proves the islands are administered by SK really hurt Japan's feelings! If they SHOULD HAVE taken action, why didn't they?

Knicknaknokkaer: "The US and South Korea are conducting their joint military drills next month."

And Japan has been begging to be included.

Samit Basu: "Russia says sorry to Korea for "accidental" intrusion of the Korean airspace over the Liancourt Rocks. Russia at the same time ignored Kono's protest, as Russia considers the Liancourt Rocks to be Korean territory."

Classic! Thanks for the link!

showchinmono: "There are more like these. Do you want?"

Doesn't matter; they are South Korean, bottom line. Deal with it. Japan sure can't, clearly.

@Strangerland: I said we should always consider all the different sources. For example @Samit Basu linked an article from the Korean press about Russia apologizing to South Korea, but I am not able to find any similar article in the Russian press.

From Russia Today about this topic:

Earlier in the day, Seoul’s Joint Chiefs of Staff committee claimed their jets were scrambled to intercept the intruding Russian aircraft which violated South Korean airspace twice. Moscow insists the encounter took place over 25km from the isles of Dokdo (known as Takeshima in Japan), and that they recorded no violation of aerial borders by Russian planes.

Rejecting the JCS accusations that the Tu-95s breached South Korea’s air defense identification zone (KADIZ), Russia said there are no international regulations that stipulate the existence of these areas.

Moscow does not recognize them either, “which was repeatedly communicated to the South Korean side through various channels.” At the end of the mid-air encounter, the South Korean jets fired flares and went away, the ministry stated.

Moscow also denied reports that “warning shots” were fired at the Tu-95s. If that was the case and the Russian pilots considered themselves in danger, there would have been “an answer” to that.

Source: https://www.rt.com/news/464817-south-korea-russia-bombers/

@Strangerland: I said we should always consider all the different sources.

Good for you. What does that have to do with your assertion that "Western press" isn't any better than Russian media as seen below?

I think the last decades showed us that Western press isn't better.

During the NHK NewsWatch 9 report yesterday, the anchors had to apologise on air for earlier describing Japan and South Korea as "allies"

Good for you. What does that have to do with your assertion that "Western press" isn't any better than Russian media as seen below?

Because it's not better. It's biased too. In this case, tell me. South Korea press is saying Russia apologized, while Russia press denies anything South Korea press is saying. What do you think?

Russia Today also published a video:

https://www.rt.com/news/464871-video-china-russia-bombers/

Russia is saying that isn't even South Korean airspace, but according to Korean press, Russia apologized. Lol.

Because it's not better.

Then we're back to my original comment:

Yes it has. Russia ranks waaaaaaaay below most western powers when it comes to press freedoms.

The idea that western media, which, what the hell does that even mean since The West includes dozens of cultures and countries, but ignoring that, Western media comes from Western countries that rank way higher than Russia with press freedoms. Russian press is only allowed to write whatever Vlad lets them. You'd have to be of pretty low intelligence to really believe that western media is "not better" than Russian media.

Western media comes from Western countries that rank way higher than Russia with press freedoms.

Rankings made by Western organizations, not biased at all. Uh?

Rankings made by Western organizations, not biased at all. Uh?

Sorry, vague accusation of "Western bias" mean zilch.

I deal with reality, not conspiracy theories.

Independent evaluators have deemed Russia being extremely low on press freedoms. Show how they are biased, and I'll entertain your argument. Make vague accusations and I'll just point out how ridiculous your claim that Western media is just as bad as Russian is.

It's entirely ridiculous. You'd have to be a brainwashed moron to believe that.

Good Job Russia and with the coordination of China! The flight was to stir up troubles over the very tense South Korea-Japan conflicts! S.Korea shall nopt back down over the dispute of Takeshima island and so does Japanm!

@Strangerland: Can you show that Western press is really better than Russian or Chinese press, without speakings about Western rankings? You are speaking about conspiracy theories, but thanks to one of these ones, never confirmed by facts, about mass weapons of destruction in Iraq, the US started a war against that Country. I think here in the West we are manipulated enough!

There is another storms of blames in the fragile USJapanRoK alliance! Good job, both Russia and China! Brilliant actions!

@Kurumazaka: yeah, also your point does make sense, but it's not completely in contrast with mine. After I read Russian press, as you can see basically Russia denies the existance of "KADIZ" (while according to Korean officials, Russia apologized about violating their airspace). So there wasn't any provocation according to Russia.

Turning this event into a Russia threats to South Korea sovreignty is convenient to show Korean public they need the trilateral cooperation between US/South Korea/Japan.

After I read Russian press, as you can see basically Russia denies the existance of "KADIZ" (while according to Korean officials, Russia apologized about violating their airspace). So there wasn't any provocation according to Russia

Heh, "credible" Russia.

@Strangerland: I think we have to learn to use the media properly. Samit Basu linked an article by KBS, a Korean media, whose title is: "Russia Expresses Regret over Intrusion of S. Korean Airspace".

I wasn't able to find any evidence about this in Russian press, at least so far, and I linked you a couple of articles from Russia Today where Russia denies South Korean claims.

Now, let's look at this BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49091523

The title is: "Russia expresses regret after South Korean airspace violation - Korean officials"

Unlike the KBS article's title, BBC title says that Russia apologized according to Korean officials.

And if you read the article, they say that Russian officials didn't confirm Korean officials claims about Russia apologizing.

On Tuesday, Seoul said a Russian warplane had twice violated its territorial airspace.

The Russian defence ministry had earlier furiously denied this.

But South Korea's Blue House said in a briefing that Russia had now said the violation was unintended and that it would immediately launch an investigation into the case.

"Moscow said if the aircraft flew according to an initially planned route, this incident would not have occurred," a spokesman told reporters.

This has not been confirmed by Russian officials.

Also on Wednesday, China's defence ministry denied any of the planes had entered the territorial air space of any country.

So, while also the BBC artcile could be a bit biased in a pro-South Korean way, AT LEAST we can see it shows BOTH South Korean point of view and Russian point of view. If you read ONLY the KBS article linked by Samit Basu, you would think that it's A FACT that Russia apologized.

If we compare the three articles, so far the most biased one is the South Korean one, despite it is a "Western" source.