Japan seeks defense ties with ASEAN

SecularBeastMar. 15, 2013 - 12:34PM JST @sfjp330 - The Yasukune Shrine is dedicated to all those who died fighting for Japan, and nearly 2.5 million people are 'enshrined' there, not just the 14 'A-Class' war criminals. All nations have similar memorials to their war dead which their leaders visit each year.

Then why is German Chancellor not doing the same thing as the Japanese PM? One accepts the responsiblity and Japan looks at themselves as victims. Imagine the outrage if Germans continued to pay homage to Hitler? Do you see Chancellor of Germany bowing to Hitler at the cemetary? Why do we stand idly by when Japan does so to some of the most horrendous tormentors war criminals of WWII? Only not so long ago, PM Abe stated that there was no wartime aggression, white washing over Japan's entire wartime atrocities history. Each and every single time Japanese politicians go to Yasukuni is a spitting in the face of all nations that suffered under the slaughter of Imperialist Japan.

To everyone who think " most who live in Japan today have nothing to do with whatever happen during WW2 "

This is so unreasonable!

Please donate all you properties that inheirted from those commited the sin to the pool nations because they have nothing to do with most Japanese today.

@SecularBeast

@Tony Ew - Cry me a river. If China doesn't want its little planes chased by jets - don't send the planes to provoke Japan in the first place. Pretty simple really. Your emotive rant about 'shackled imperialism', 'leopards spots', and 'confuse the world' is simple paranoia and doesn't gel with reality. Japan hasn't taken up arms in any dispute since 1945, unlike Communist China who have done it plenty with its neighbors since 1949. None of the 100s of Japanese people I know or have met have ever expressed a desire to revisit Imperial Japan - it was an awful time for the Japanese people as well as their neighbors.

Perhaps you did not see my postings here before. If you have you will notice that I am not anti Japanese. I am just anti nationalist Japanese, (or Chinese or US etc) and this usually includes the recent LDP leadership since Kozumi. There is no paranoia, just factual observations. When Japan do anything military you can see it is always going overboard, maximum cruelty and worse, there is no genuine repentance. The Japanese people have a chance to get rid of LDP and her evil schemes but unfortunately Noda Democratic party was cornered by Ishihara scheme that lead to the current mess.

Japan should stop trying to gang up on China and learn to accept the simple maths that Japan will be further and further behind China simply due to size and population and demographics. If Abe is wise, he will stop his nationalist streak and just compromise ( courtesy from China ) on the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands which is never Japanese in the first place. But we all know Japan is good at propaganda and try to repeat lies a milion times till the general public bite the bait. Unfortunately this is internet time and people knows the truth. So No More ASEAN Natto Meeting please, it is such a waste of time and does Japan expect any country to gang up on China other than Philippines and Vietnam?

@sfjp330 - The Yasukune Shrine is dedicated to all those who died fighting for Japan, and nearly 2.5 million people are 'enshrined' there, not just the 14 'A-Class' war criminals. All nations have similar memorials to their war dead which their leaders visit each year. Again its only China and Korea who get upset about Japanese politicians visiting the shrine to pay their respects to ALL their war dead, not just the 14 A-Classers as they choose to portray it.

@Tony Ew - Cry me a river. If China doesn't want its little planes chased by jets - don't send the planes to provoke Japan in the first place. Pretty simple really. Your emotive rant about 'shackled imperialism', 'leopards spots', and 'confuse the world' is simple paranoia and doesn't gel with reality. Japan hasn't taken up arms in any dispute since 1945, unlike Communist China who have done it plenty with its neighbors since 1949.

None of the 100s of Japanese people I know or have met have ever expressed a desire to revisit Imperial Japan - it was an awful time for the Japanese people as well as their neighbors.

@JaneMMar. 14, 2013 - 03:40PM JST

IRobin You are usually very vocal when it comes to accusing Japan of anything and defending China no matter what it does internationally but the fact that Japan was an imperialist power 70 years ago does not justify the aggressive behavior of China at present. The world has moved on as has Japan and you can at least acknowledge the fact that not only Japan, but quite a few countries in South East Asia feel threatened by the regional bully. Bringing back past grievences and using them as an excuse for whatever is done now is, if not childish, quite immature.

Sorry, me think the 'bible' modus operandi from WWII is still alive and well. Dusted off by Abe, actually started off from Kozumi time, repeated inconsiderate actions against China and S Korea , this is LDP problem. Noda govt seems reasonable but was framed and incompetent, so too bad for Japan and the world. History has a purpose to remind people this leopard can never change her spot. So far no proof Japan is a peaceful nation except that 'shackled militarism' imposed by US makes it ONLY appear so!

You are too naive and don't know what lies beneath! Ah, a peaceful nation don't send 8 plus 3 fighter jets to chase off a small propeller plane!

This low profile meeting of vice ministers is another attempt to confuse the world about Japan's actual intention, which is to hang on to Senkaku/Diaoyu islands regardless of a solid claim by either China or Taiwan. Very clever deflection from the real issue!

With Japan, U.S., and India conducting various naval exercises with each other along with SE Asian nations, it's clearly apparent that China should start looking themselves in the mirror and adjust their attitudes accordingly as opposed to crying themselves as victims of some sort of conspiracy that nobody but themselves are buying.

ecularBeastMar. 15, 2013 - 02:29AM JST The Chinese don't seem to understand that along with the Koreans, they are the only nation in the region who can't seem to let go of their 70 year old grudge with Japan

Maybe it's Japan that cannot let go. Even PM Abe knows this, yet just before he became a PM, he visited the Yasukuni shrine, and every summer, when you have over 60 J-goverment officials visiting and praying for 14 class A war criminals, it does not help to improve relationship with China and Korea. These politicians were voted in and they represents majority of their prefectural areas. In fact, all of these J-goverment reps has the knowledge that what they are doing is angering other countries. Is it really to the benefit of Japan that they are pushing Japan farther and farther away from others and continue to look at themselves as victims? That Japanese culture treats all dead as victim and does not mean everyone else should follow that same mindset. That this affects other nations suggests that the Japanese ought to take into consideration their actions on others, too. Japan should've follow Germany's path after the war. This is not simply a domestic matter.

Here we go again. Japan is attempting to form an ASEAN 'NATTO' ( ha ha !) to annoy China. This meeting is almost obligatory for the smaller ASEAN nations to attention since they do quite of bit of trading and get investments from Japan. The way I see it, sending just vice ministers to the meeting shows this is just a 'for show' presence and in return some gets patrol boats from Japan. What else is new from Abe?

Japan can spin and respin the disputes with China but ordinary citizens from ASEAN countries can see the play book from Japan by now. One only need to look at history and see China is the nice guy vs Japan. How difficult to understand this historical fact? AND to differentiate between disputes and actual aggression?

@JaneM @OssanAmerica - well said.

The Chinese don't seem to understand that along with the Koreans, they are the only nation in the region who can't seem to let go of their 70 year old grudge with Japan.

In Australia, we had 9500 dead and 14000 wounded fighting the Japanese in the Pacific (my family had 1 dead and one wounded in those stats), but no-one beats the anti-Japanese drum here. As a nation we are mature enough to accept that Imperial Japan and Modern Japan are two completely different things. We don't hold grudges against the Japanese because of the 'sins of their grandfathers' (most of whom were press-ganged into the military at the time anyway). And other nations in the region have a similar mature outlook.

The way China has been behaving regarding its claims on South China Seas and the Senkakus, it's hardly surprising to see those being pressured by Modern China banding together. What did China expect?

IRobinMar. 14, 2013 - 03:06PM JST Let me tell a story: Once upon a time, there was a man, named Japan, he robbed almost all of his neighbours when he was at his prime >and brought disasters to them, from then on, as long as there was another family was going to reach its prime, Japan >would exclaim the danger, he was afraid of the same thing would happen to him as he did before.

So what you are saying is that since Japan had it's day of controlling Asia 70-100 years ago, China should be allowed to do the same now? Sorry but the world has changed. Is China incapable of learning from history? Does it need to lose countless lives and have it's cities reduced to rubble to understand that "war id bad"? As the article shows those victims of Japan in WWII are now siding with Japan against a bigger aggressor- China.

@JaneM I am not defending China here. I did not even mention China here.

For those who cannot and refuse to understand why most people in China, North Korea and South Korea oppose to Japan's successive governments' refusal to admit their previous rulers' brutal invasion and mass killings of civilians and consciously limit their citizens from knowing and learning to the full extent of what their imperial armies have done to other Asian nations during WWII, read this article which is a reflection and realization from a Japanese who studied history in Japan and then moved to Australia.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068

Good story but the country it self dont have a consciousness and most who live in Japan today have nothing to do with whatever happen during WW2. USA seem quite serious in their alliance with Japan/Korea so at the moment there isnt alot to fear. Still reaching out a hand to other ASEAN countries sounds like a good thing to do to keep the powerbalance. If China was a democratic country or if the bilateral economic ties where stronger that could work too but as it looks now this was almost to be expected.

The only reason they would have to be affraid, isnt because of the peoples consciousness because its quite clean. Its because China as we all know is one of the most rapid growing countries in the world, not a democracy and that they have military ambitions. That combined with existing territorial disputes could be a war recipe.

And I have a slight memory of China declaring war on more then one country through history.. China/India 1962, China/Vietnam 1979, China/Tibet 1932. So IRobin, history will most likley repeat it self no matter if you claim that the people of Japan have or should have a bad consciousness because of their war history or not.

IRobin You are usually very vocal when it comes to accusing Japan of anything and defending China no matter what it does internationally but the fact that Japan was an imperialist power 70 years ago does not justify the aggressive behavior of China at present. The world has moved on as has Japan and you can at least acknowledge the fact that not only Japan, but quite a few countries in South East Asia feel threatened by the regional bully. Bringing back past grievences and using them as an excuse for whatever is done now is, if not childish, quite immature.

Let me tell a story:

Once upon a time, there was a man, named Japan, he robbed almost all of his neighbours when he was at his prime and brought disasters to them, from then on, as long as there was another family was going to reach its prime, Japan would exclaim the danger, he was afraid of the same thing would happen to him as he did before.