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Japan, S Korea, U.S. demand greater Chinese effort on N Korea

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Any military action would be a complete disaster for the world.

Definitely, not the way to go!

11 ( +11 / -0 )

What a picture. It's amazing that these three presidents came to power by a voting decision of their citizens.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

So Trump, Abe, and the Moon agree to push China to do the things they want.

But China can't be prodded and pushed to do anything.

So what exactly do these guys hope to accomplish?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Squeezing China economically is the ONLY thing that will make China do anything about NKorea.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

There's been talk talk talk for years and nothing has changed, other than the fact that NK now has a missile that can reaach targets in America, and will soon be able to tip it with a nuke. Either kick their ass now (with disastrous results) or learn to live with deterrence.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Abe - a little lad out of his depth.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Don't know much about Moon, and no fan of Abe, but... as far as out of his depth the other person in the photo that appears to be floundering both domestically and internationally.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@Land:  You need your eyesight checked.   Abe is not the little one.  Moon is.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Squeezing China economically is the ONLY thing that will make China do anything about NKorea.

This is a demonstrably false statement. If the US and RoK agreed to freeze their military maneuvers, as China and Russia just proposed, and the DPRK did nothing, China would act.

Not to mention that squeezing China economically would have disasterous consequences for the American, South Korean, andJapanese economies. Do you think China would simply take it lying down?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

We will not be able to change North Korea. We have to negotiate with them and let them promise that they will not use their dangerous weapons.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

So due to mericas diplomatic failure, they're lumping the mess the inadvertently caused onto China just so later the dumbed down reality show guzzlers can have who to blame huh?

These are the true signs of an empire in decline. The inability to accept change. Rome tried too once upon a time.

There's one tried and true fact. Absolutely nothing lasts forever!!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Every nation in the world and every person in the world knows that China would NEVER do what S Korea, USA and Japan asks. In today's world China's action speaks louder than their rhetoric, much as Obama realized much too late.

In that light Trump is again using his communication skills to place China in a position where should any meaningful action such as Trump meeting with Kim do occur... something which Kim really wants.. China would be in a worse situation where it could not recover its position in the eyes of the world.

It does not have the "trust" of the rest of the world... more by their actions and their citizens actions with physical proof all over the world... (much like what Muslims are facing due to the jihadist movement and their questionable response all over the world). Should Trump (hopefully wisely without any military action) do talk to Kim and all goes well, China would be at the mercy of world opinion which may or may not end up with economic consequences which China wants to avoid. All the South China sea problems, the India border problem, the Mongol and Tibet border problems, all of which are militarily controlled, would all come to surface and China must find a way to deal with it.

In essence the only way China can control the situation is by military conflict (which it will probably design and cause in some convenient location on a limited scale which will not involve the USA or Russia, not much different from what CIA has done in other parts of the world) to keep internal peace and use economic strength, because it supplies the world with much of the consumer products and pretended economic aid, to pressure other nations from interfering. That is probably why they have been building up their military recently.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Ultimately, more than any country in the world, China is at fault for allowing North Korea to get and exploit its Nuclear Weapons. It was China's involvement in the Korean War that allowed North Korea to exist as it is today. Therefore China should be tasked with the responsibility of disarming North Korea. If they will not do this then they must back off of any Military Action by the USA and its allies against North Korea. North Korea has threatened its neighbors for far too long. Earlier comments blame lack of Diplomacy by the USA.... these people have zero clue and only look to discredit the USA in any manner they can. They should first ask... why is Diplomacy needed in the first place. If North Korea were a normal country led by a sane leader there'd be no problem.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

There's been talk talk talk for years and nothing has changed

Yeah. There has been no change from not having a war, to having a war. That's a good thing.

It seems you're arguing for an invasion of N. Korea. See how well that worked in Iraq - and they didn't have nuclear weapons.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Swift_JusticeToday  08:09 am JST

Squeezing China economically is the ONLY thing that will make China do anything about NKorea.

This is a demonstrably false statement. If the US and RoK agreed to freeze their military maneuvers, as China and Russia just proposed, and the DPRK did nothing, China would act.

Not at all. The "and he DPRK did nothing" is the flaw in your statement.

Not to mention that squeezing China economically would have disasterous consequences for the American, South Korean, andJapanese economies. Do you think China would simply take it lying down?

Nope. China would weigh the value of maintaining their economy and trade versus continuing to support the Kim regime. Guess which they'd choose. And it would not be "disastrous" for those economies. China is not holding as stacked a deck as many presume.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Land: You need your eyesight checked.  Abe is not the little one. Moon is.

"Colloquialism. A saying that expresses something other than the literal meaning of the words"...

LOL... Time for you to double-down and put away the beginner text, toshiko... You'll be amazed at what you'll learn when you study, son.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

People somehow think that the US could squeeze China financially. I guess they don't realize that 1/3 of America's debt is to China. If any financial squeezing is to go on, it would be the other way around. If the US suddenly tried to squeeze China, they would quickly find themselves in a financial bind.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Douglas MacArthur would have solved this problem way back in 1951 but Harry Truman, who caused this nightmare in the first place, fired him. North Korea is a creation of China.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Can't help but notice that President Moon is wearing a bright red Trump tie. I wonder if he is sending a message. Abe doesn't seem to have a sense of power fashion. Poca dots?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

StrangerlandToday 09:18 am JSTPeople somehow think that the US could squeeze China financially. I guess they don't realize that 1/3 of America's debt is to China. If any financial squeezing is to go on, it would be the other way around. If the US suddenly tried to squeeze China, they would quickly find themselves in a financial bind.

That "debt" is in the form of US government securities, bonds which are like IOUs. As the holder of those IOUs how can China "put the squeeze" on the US? If the US doesn't pay up China loses. The worst China can do to retaliate is to sell them, but there's a high probability that other nations will pick them up. China isn't even our biggest deb holder anymore.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/16/investing/china-japan-us-debt-treasuries/index.html

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Trump , Abe and Moon (TAM Trio) are pulling China's legs!

They want to let Beijing solve the Kim puzzle but won't listen to China's and Russia's suggestions!

Being an American echo in a war with a nuclear armed neighbor could mean another Hiroshima for Japan and a Nagasaki version in Seoul while faraway America could only have a minor Pearl Harbor nostalgia.

When the mushroom dust settles only far away USA stands tall and unscathed.

In this way, Abe and Moon's legs were also pulled apart without both even knowing! Lol!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It's a no win situation, the longer everyone delays, the closer NK gets to a nuclear ICBM with the range to attack the American mainland. Once that happens no amount of diplomacy would reign NK as they could soft escalate as much as they wanted.

I think the most revealing thing is how little China cares that NK's nukes are in range of Beijing and Shanghai. This implies that they have an understanding with NK and are giving them support, which makes China a hostile enemy and should be treated as such

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I can't help but think that this will end in conflict.

The combined forces of these 3 countries will likely orchestrate it. The reason I say this is that NK now has the ability it hit the US, and they are showing a genuine determination to push forward with this line of action despite the opposition to do so.

So what to the US do? Do they just allow this development to continue? I don't think they will, despite the fact that most Americans won't be able to identify North Korea on a Map.

The North Koreans are not backing down, so will the US?

I doubt it. Too much pride. Too much ego.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

People somehow think that the US could squeeze China financially. I guess they don't realize that 1/3 of America's debt is to China. If any financial squeezing is to go on, it would be the other way around. If the US suddenly tried to squeeze China, they would quickly find themselves in a financial bind

This is not correct, China holds around 8% of US debt and interestingly enough Japan also holds about 8% as well. For the US, not paying back the debt if they find themselves some from of spat with China would do nothing to them financially because there are many other countries willing to loan money. The largest holders of US debt are US Citizens themselves and they'll never stop loaning the government money.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Since they demanded, China will finally oblige. /s

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

>  they'll never stop loaning the government money.

Well you know the saying, a fool an his money...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

 there are many other countries willing to loan money.

This is not correct

Wise words spoken by an online economics expert. Because what do you do when someone can't pay what they owe? You loan them more money!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

As the holder of those IOUs how can China "put the squeeze" on the US? If the US doesn't pay up China loses.

If the US doesn't pay, they destroy their credit rating, and no country in the world ever trusts them again. Suddenly the US cannot borrow more money from other countries, and the US economy collapses.

If the US doesn't pay, the US loses.

This is not correct, China holds around 8% of US debt

You're right that I was incorrect in my original statement. China owns 1/3 of foreign-owned US debt, not 1/3 of US debt overall.

For the US, not paying back the debt if they find themselves some from of spat with China would do nothing to them financially because there are many other countries willing to loan money.

They won't be nearly as willing after seeing that the US will default on their debt if they decide they don't like the other country. And with Trump as president, any country can suddenly not be liked by the US. Other countries may be willing to loan, but not at the same rates as currently, the rates will go up significantly, due to the risk factor in loaning to the US that would be exposed by the US choosing to default on loans due to other spats.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

If the US doesn't pay, they destroy their credit rating, and no country in the world ever trusts them again.

Not likely. This isn't like a credit card rating. People will always deal with the biggest buyer in the room, even after they stiff other sellers.

In any case, the economy will collapse at some point. Which is probably necessary to bring Americans back to reality land. But that collapse will bring the whole world with it. Some countries will just recover faster.

To the point, China can't squeeze the USA as much as the USA can squeeze China. Especially not with a cowboy like Trump in the White House.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Not likely. This isn't like a credit card rating. People will always deal with the biggest buyer in the room, even after they stiff other sellers.

Sure they do, but at much higher rates. Increased risk equals increased cost. No one is going to keep loaning at the same rates to a country that defaults on it's debts.

China can't squeeze the USA as much as the USA can squeeze China.

Sure they can.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It's not a "we don't like you we wont pay" thing. It's something that would occur from military action taken by China or China choosing to completely to sever diplomatic ties with the US.

Either way, China stands the most to lose in this case and many economic cases with the US.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It's not a "we don't like you we wont pay" thing. It's something that would occur from military action taken by China or China choosing to completely to sever diplomatic ties with the US.

What you are saying is not inline with what we are discussing. This is the claim:

Squeezing China economically is the ONLY thing that will make China do anything about NKorea.

Followed up with this:

As the holder of those IOUs how can China "put the squeeze" on the US? If the US doesn't pay up China loses.

The suggestion to not pay was not based on China taking military action or severing diplomatic ties, the suggestion to not pay was to pressure China to deal with NK.

If the US starts defaulting on debt as a means of forcing a country to apply political pressure, it would destroy the US credit rating. They could take these actions on any country that holds US debt.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Last time,, when US congress was going to bankruptcy, China rushed so one day, there was lone day bankruptcy.  Then China began investing on U.S. debt bond quite a while.  When China began industriation and spending money for heavy military weapons, it invited Japan to take over purchase of US debt bonds.  No problem.  Right now,,, Japan is the biggest USA debt holder,  Why Japan does?  Whenever it invest in other country, foreigners in Japan complain and they want to get money to give Fukushima.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

People will never learn about foreign powers. If China was in a position to do something that they are capable it would have been done. They have proven it again and again like other countries, Tie Neman Sq, the recent man made islands, etc.  NK has shrugged them openly with out no effects except being told to stay within their borders by NK.  This means China is not as powerful the picture they portray, with what 2 carriers, hell Japan is much stronger with their fleet.  The 3 stooges are going to do nothing, unless the US makes the first move. Just yesterday MOON wants to do more talking, well like in the old days, talking got the weaker countries nothing as invasion happened right after. Should the pullout to US forces how long do you think both China and Russia would move in against Japan and SK by morning.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

China will help fixing the North Korean crisis at the end but NOT UNTIL US,ROK forces were in bloody nose and quagmire that no winner is on the table.  Because the above of 38th parallel is a buffer zone that China cannot afford to lose and prevent a unification Korea by Seoul.  Sure China don't like "KJ" and they wanna him be gone as soon as possible but it is essential for them not to be used by western power over the Korean issue.  There were still many issues between China and US to bargain in the coming decades!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The lives of the 28000 US troops were very valuable assets for the U.S. and I don't think Trump will risk their lives for a gamble that he wont win. He runs casinos for years and he understood the stakes he is facing!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

well like in the old days, talking got the weaker countries nothing as invasion happened right after.

Can you be a bit more specific? Which countries, which invasions? Thanks.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's like Orwell said, 'the war's not intended to be won, it's intended to be ongoing'. It's constant revolution worldwide and a kind of a front to justify armaments, fear and moat importantly control, more rattling of sabres imho.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"China can't squeeze the USA as much as the USA can squeeze China."

Sure they can.

Really? With what? The US can stop buying Chinese exports and cause economic chaos in China. What can China do? Demand their money? Fat chance of that happening.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I agree with kurisupisu-san, and am happy to see the upvotes. If you thought Iraq was a disaster, then a Korean invasion or attack would be many times more costly in human lives, very likely including people living in Japan. No one here is saying Kim is a cool dude. But he's not the guy you want to pick a fight with.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

StrangerlandJuly 7 01:22 pm JST

That China holds a large amount of US debt instruments, and we know they are not the largest holders, does NOT make them invincible and the US powerless as you originally stated. In a time of conflict those securities would be frozen by the US, not defaulted upon, but frozen. But we are not talking about an open China-US conflict, which may arise eventually out of the SCS dispute. China depends on the enormous US market as do many other countries. Increased tariffs alone on Chinese imports would devastate China's export picture and goals. That would "squeeze" China economically into having to consider whether continuing to support NKorea is worth it. What's China's option? Damage the US by retaliatory tariffs? Anything China does to damage the US economy comes back to them as a drop in the value of all the US debt they are holding.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Nobody serious disputes that the US has more leverage over China than vice-versa. Kind of silly to have to explain it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

commanteerToday 09:00 am JSTNobody serious disputes that the US has more leverage over China than vice-versa. Kind of silly to have to explain it.

Indeed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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