Japan, Taiwan ruling parties to boost economic security cooperation

Japan, Taiwan ruling parties to boost economic security cooperation

Why not S. Korea. Right next door.

More pressure should be applied on S. Korea to balance China and defend Taiwan.

Japan and USA already making emergency plans to help Taiwan..... Where is your S. Korea?? It should be Japan, S. Korea and USA making plans together to defend Taiwan, but No. No such plans from S.Korea.

Korea is focus on Japan instead! Another apology, another compensation. Sure, let's talk about that..... China and Russia, defending Taiwan, someone else problem. Not a Korean issue.

Good for Japan and Taiwan. Two leading peace and freedom loving democracies in the world.

Lets hope the US very soon diplomatically recognizes Taiwan. Japan will instantly follow suit.

Why not S. Korea. Right next door.

More pressure should be applied on S. Korea to balance China and defend Taiwan.

South Korea has a maniac on its borders threatening it all the time. And you want it to get involved directly in another flashpoint because the danger it faces daily is not enough.

Japan will not fight, it will carry ammunition. I am sure South Korea will carry ammo as well if asked to do so.

When Japan commits itself to fight for Taiwan instead of provide only logistical support to the US forces, then it can expect more from South Korea to help.

South Korea will help the US as it did in Vietnam when it sent soldiers to fight there. Where was Japans soldiers? Carrying out logistical support to help out, but not fighting. When Japan actually fights along side allied forces it will demonstrate the value of the alliance it has, like South Korea already has.

@Peter14

Considering that the United States constructed and imposed Article 9 on Japan, your arguments about Japan not joining the US in "combat" are pretty ridiculous.

@OssanAmerica

Considering that the United States constructed and imposed Article 9 on Japan, your arguments about Japan not joining the US in "combat" are pretty ridiculous.

Not ridiculous, just accurate and factual.

One poster constantly accuses South Korea of inaction while talking up Japan. I have no issue with Japan, although do think it is time it altered or disposed of article 9. He complains Japan does not get technology that the US has given to UK and will provide to Australia. He complains South Korea is not in QUAD (it may not have had a choice) and says Japan will defend Taiwan. Not likely as Article 9 forbids it.

The facts are the US has loyal warriors in the UK and Australia, and as mentioned even South Korea fought in Vietnam. Complaining about lack of the same treatment is because of simple differences.

Complaining that nothing is heard from South Korea on the Taiwan issue is because of difference in priorities.

I have no great love for South Korea over Japan, I have never been to South Korea. But ignoring obvious differences in situations effecting both nations is wrong.

China will surely decimate Japan economically in the next few years. They are vengeful against anyone who meddles into Taiwan's affairs. In fact, the CCP released the virus to devastate the West primarily to demonstrate how serious China is against anyone threatening its sovereignty over Taiwan. Before COVID-19, Trump intends to declare formal relations with Taiwan.

@Septim Dynasty

Nah, China won't bother unless Taiwan declares independence.

What they need right now is DDP losing in the next election.

＠Peter14

No Peter, it's factual that Japan has not sent Combat troops in support of the US. But it's ridiculous to hold Japan responble for it when we all know they are constitutionally constrained by a clause created and imposed upon them by the United States.

I am fully aware of that particular posters arguments which in many cases is also ridiculous. Sometimes even dead wrong. But the issue of SKorea is a serious problem for US strategic policy in East Asia. Which, in turn affects the position of other US allies in the region. SKorea's continuous use of anti-Japan sentiment as a diplomatic and political tool damages said policy. Japan has complied with every request from SKorea for apologies and money, yet SKorea never lets up. You are undoubtedly aware of the 2015 Comfort Women Agreement that was declared "Permanent and Irreversible" by both nations, only to be unilaterally ripped up the Moon administration, after SKorea received a PM apology and the money requested. That money has to date neither been returned to Japan nor given to the surviving Comfort Women for whom it was intended.

At some point it was inevitable that the ceaseless anti-JP sentiment and actions would draw a similar response as a reaction. If you are indeed objective as to SK/JPN relations then surely you see the problem here.

Additonally, you state that SKorea should be exempt from joinging the US alliance in support of Taiwan to counter China because they have their hands full with NKorea. Well they had their hands full 1969-1973 too but still managed to send troops to Vietnam. Korea historically has survived stuck between more powerful nations by total subservience or appeasement, and I believe we are seeing that now in SKorea's fear of upsetting China.

@Peter14

You also state that ity is unlikely that Japan will help defend Taiwan because of Article 9. My view is that it is up in the air. Article 9 notwithstanding, Japanese law has already been passed allowing to aid an ally under Collective Defense. I know this currently covers US forces, and I don't doubt that it will be interpreted to cover all allied forces. JSDF will as usual proviode logitical support but if allied forces come under attack, JSDF will be authorized to come to their aid.

South Korea has a military of both size and capabilty that they could easily contribute to FON exercises in the South China Sea. If, they wanted to.

If Taiwan goes Chinese, then the Senkaku's would too; then the entire Okinawa group; then the rest of Japan. (Somewhere in between, S Korea.) That is why former PM Abe recently said, "Taiwan in trouble, Japan in trouble." The Vietnam War, though lost, blunted the advance of the communists into SE Asia. Taiwan may next play the role of Vietnam in NE Asia. But it must not be lost.

@OssanAmerica

No Peter, it's factual that Japan has not sent Combat troops in support of the US. But it's ridiculous to hold Japan responble for it when we all know they are constitutionally constrained by a clause created and imposed upon them by the United States.

My apologies. I was under the obviously mistaken impression that Japan has the right like other nations, to modify their constitution whenever they choose to. I did not realise that they apparently have no such right or ability.

That being the case they could never remove or alter article 9 and reinstate the sovereign right all other nations have to fight along side allies that have been attacked or are in conflict.

I see now that they are stuck with the American authored constitution forever, no matter what the Japanese people may want.

Maybe they should include the Republican Party, their is not one Japanese politician in America, that has power in the Republican Party, Japanese that are in the Democratic Party wield power

Peter14Dec. 25  11:13 pm JST

@OssanAmerica

No Peter, it's factual that Japan has not sent Combat troops in support of the US. But it's ridiculous to hold Japan responble for it when we all know they are constitutionally constrained by a clause created and imposed upon them by the United States.

My apologies. I was under the obviously mistaken impression that Japan has the right like other nations, to modify their constitution whenever they choose to. I did not realise that they apparently have no such right or ability.

No, you are not mistaken at all. Japan, like any other country has the right to amend or modify their constitution. Hell, Germany has done so several times since WWII ended. However, the idea of removing Article 9 entirely has remained unpopular among the people since WWII ended, while Japan grew economically without fears or concerns about national security under American protection. In fact the US literally had to force Japan to create the JSDF in 1950 when the Korean War broke out.

The resistance to touching Article 9 persists, however the world has changed. There was no way Japan could send troops to Vietnam. There were even protests in Okinawa that the US Bases were being used for that campaign. But after the 1990 Gulf War debacle, Japan has made step-by-step reinterpretations to allow oveaseas deployment and collective defense. Japan had a token representation during the 2nd Gulf war, and the JMSDF has always depolyed minesweepers and fueled allied naval vessels during allied campaigns. Most of that is due to US pressure and a changing regional threat scenario. But that is only after the first Gulf war in 1991.

An attack on Taiwan by China, with the US and allied nations supporting Taiwan would without doubt draw Japan into a scenario where their logistics and support presence will draw them into engagement under their collective defense doctrine. And unlike the mideast, Taiwan in smack right in Japan's security sphere. If Taiwan falls, Okinawa is next.

@OssanAmerica

So Japan could have at any time of it's choosing, altered its constitution to enable it to participate in UN missions like INTERFET or in the freeing of Kuwait or providing direct combat assistance to the US in any number of conflicts, but hasn't due to a change of article nine being unpopular.

I dont see how anyone could say that becaue you provide technology transfers to UK and Australia, that Japan deserves the same treatment. The UK and Australia have been fighting beside American forces for over 100 years and have a proven reliability. Sharing tech with them helps keep their US soldiers safe. Japan has never been in a conflict at America's side so what need do they have for secret military technology? There seems no rational comparison.

SKorea's continuous use of anti-Japan sentiment as a diplomatic and political tool damages said policy. Japan has complied with every request from SKorea for apologies and money, yet SKorea never lets up. You are undoubtedly aware of the 2015 Comfort Women Agreement that was declared "Permanent and Irreversible" by both nations, only to be unilaterally ripped up the Moon administration, after SKorea received a PM apology and the money requested. That money has to date neither been returned to Japan nor given to the surviving Comfort Women for whom it was intended.

Japan has its own "anti South Korea" agenda and at any point talking about comfort woman or erecting a statue brings out Japanese disdain and ire on the subject, actually proving that past apologies mean nothing if your continued conduct on the subject borders on hostile and accusatory.

Monies paid by Japan remain in a Japanese account that the Japanese government refuses to take back. It will no doubt sit there earning interest until the cows come home.

Such "issues from the past" continue to haunt the present day relationship and negatively impact both nations and the future relations. A clear lack of trust pervades most dealings between both nations. The US and Allies will not take sides as it is seen as an unnecessary dispute that makes both countries at times seem like arguing children. The past happened and must be dealt with in an acceptable way to both sides. That is yet to happen.

Peter14Today  02:32 pm JST

@OssanAmerica

So Japan could have at any time of it's choosing, altered its constitution to enable it to participate in UN missions like INTERFET or in the freeing of Kuwait or providing direct combat assistance to the US in any number of conflicts, but hasn't due to a change of article nine being unpopular.

Exactly.

I dont see how anyone could say that becaue you provide technology transfers to UK and Australia, that Japan deserves the same treatment. The UK and Australia have been fighting beside American forces for over 100 years and have a proven reliability. Sharing tech with them helps keep their US soldiers safe. Japan has never been in a conflict at America's side so what need do they have for secret military technology? There seems no rational comparison.

You are arguing with the original poster's arguments complaining about insufficient transafer of technology from the US to Japan, which I disagee with.

Japan has its own "anti South Korea" agenda and at any point talking about comfort woman or erecting a statue brings out Japanese disdain and ire on the subject, actually proving that past apologies mean nothing if your continued conduct on the subject borders on hostile and accusatory. Monies paid by Japan remain in a Japanese account that the Japanese government refuses to take back. It will no doubt sit there earning interest until the cows come home.

Dead wrong there. Japan accepted responsibility for the CW issue back in 1990 thinking thatr SKorea sincerely wanted the issue resolved. But since then SKorea has repeatedly demanded apologies and money over and over again, with Japam complying each time. The 2015 CW Agreement was the final straw that broke the camel's back. The only country that continures to show hostility and behaces "accusayory" is SKorea, where anti-Japan sentimemt has become a diplomatic and political tool. If you don't recognize this fact, you don't have a clear picture of far eastern geopolitics. Hatred is one way, coming from SKorea. It's only after 2015 that the Kdrama/Kpop loving Japanese started reacting to the SKorean boycotting of Japanese imports. The money paid by Japan is in an account in Japan controlled by South Korea. They have not given that money to the surviving CWs for whom it was intended.

Such "issues from the past" continue to haunt the present day relationship and negatively impact both nations and the future relations. A clear lack of trust pervades most dealings between both nations. The US and Allies will not take sides as it is seen as an unnecessary dispute that makes both countries at times seem like arguing children. The past happened and must be dealt with in an acceptable way to both sides. That is yet to happen.

There is no "anti-SKorea" agenda in Japan. At least not in government. Japan has it's own concerns, a China that is trying to take territory from it, a NKorea that lobs missiles over it. SKorea is "suppose" to be an ally. But the SKorean government, especially under the Moon admnistration, has made it's anti-Japan agenda a major part of it's diplomatic relations with Japan. After Moon ripped up the "Permanent and Irreversible" 2015 Agreement, which BTW the U.S. pressed both parties very very hard to complete, Japan's mistrust of SKorea has become obvious. And no one can blame them.

Dead wrong there. Japan accepted responsibility for the CW issue back in 1990 thinking thatr SKorea sincerely wanted the issue resolved. But since then SKorea has repeatedly demanded apologies and money over and over again, with Japam complying each time. The 2015 CW Agreement was the final straw that broke the camel's back.

For every attempt to move forward that Japan takes, it then takes a step backwards when any official makes statements that are contrary to the apology. Example, "there were all well paid volunteers". No, they were not. But saying so makes official apologies void.

Germans when hearing talk of the holocaust keep silent, or nod their heads in agreement. They NEVER make statements of denial or attempt to say things to make it sound less shameful.

Japan has history books for Schools that do not tell the truth. Watering down events that happened.

We could go on but enough others have covered this topic before and will again after us giving both sides.

Japan accepts Pearl Harbor without dispute. Japan must do the same with CW and if it can make a genuine apology it must remain silent on the subject afterwards. The US remembers pearl Harbor every year and Japan stays silent. Let the South Koreans remember CW every year and stay silent. Speaking up shows disrespect and keeps the wound open. It is not hard.

Apologies Mods.

Economic ties may well strengthen after this meeting but security ties will likely only be along the lines of intelligence sharing at this stage.

I think people are forgetting something here. China's economy may be in deep trouble due to the effects of the one child policy. The four-two-one problem where one Chinese teenager will have to support the pension of their two parents and four grandparents is a ticking time bomb. And unless the CCP finds a way to radically improve productivity, China may fall into the middle income trap and become an old, low/middle income country. Japan and Korea are becoming old, high income countries.

Immigration is a no go, since China is super xenophobic. Even if they opened up to immigration, most immigrants will prefer to go to Canada/USA.

They are all in deep trouble. But out of the three, I am betting that Korea will be the best positioned to overcome this challenge.

There are far more economic and security discussions going on now between the US, Allies and Taiwan than is openly reported. Should Taiwan declare independence, let's all hope that China shows wisdom in not attempting to bring it under control through invasion. But be prepared if they do not.