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Japan tells U.N. it has found no evidence of forced WWII sex slavery

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Shocking!!!

15 ( +26 / -11 )

While most mainstream Japanese accept national guilt over historic atrocities, a vocal right wing minority say the country has been unfairly maligned for behavior they claim was common in conflict

I don't recall any historical account of US soldiers killing infants for fun.

9 ( +25 / -16 )

Why can they not see how these types of statements are the reason this issue keeps going around in circles?

If you really want the past to be put in the past, stop with this silly apologise-deny-apologise-deny

50 ( +56 / -6 )

I just read a few weeks ago that Japan apologized about the comfort women predicament. Then they release this report. I have no idea what to think about their intentions.

39 ( +45 / -6 )

I'm sorry, but the GOJ on this issue has no honor. At all.

36 ( +41 / -5 )

If you really want the past to be put in the past

But some of us would like to know how it really was.

I don't recall any historical account of US soldiers killing infants for fun.

You should read more widely. Headline from five years ago: "US soldiers killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies" (It may not be true, but isn't that the issue?)

We're talking about events from 70 years ago when in the most advanced nation in the world black people were treated as dirt and rape was only a crime if accompanied by physical violence.

2 ( +17 / -15 )

Yeah, right !

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Japan has apologized for something they have destroyed all records of

22 ( +26 / -4 )

Up to 200,000 women, many of them South Koreans but also from China, the Philippines and what is now Indonesia, are estimated to have been forced to provide sex to Japanese soldiers during World War II.

Hearsay!

I am in agreement with the committee.

-45 ( +10 / -55 )

Why protests about comfort women come so strongly from Korea and China while not very much from other countries such as Taiwan, Philippines, Thailand etc. where probably the imperial army did the same thing. I feel there are some other reasons or intentions China and Korea attack Japan behind the comfort women.

-31 ( +18 / -49 )

So, for anyone who wonders why we keep hearing about demands for apologies, do you still wonder after reading this article ?

33 ( +40 / -7 )

@gaijindesu should we talk about Vietnam? Yes American soldiers have killed innocents in past conflicts and have raped women in past conflicts. Hell they do it in Japan even today. Don't try to wipe away any guilt just because Murica!! War is full of atrocities. Usually on all sides. Not always sanctioned or sponsored by governments. Most times it's horrible people in the midst of it all

0 ( +17 / -17 )

"While most mainstream Japanese accept national guilt over historic atrocities, a vocal right wing minority say the country has been unfairly maligned for behavior they claim was common in conflict."

We keep being told "most mainstream Japanese" reject the claims of the rightists, but until this majority makes its voice heard above this supposed minority, so what?

Are these people just complacent? Don't really give a crap? Sort of on the fence? Afraid of rightist thugs who share the government's true view on this matter?

Not very impressive nor convincing.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

@kibousha. Yeah this is a bonehead move. But the other countries can't hold an entire nation for the actions of its past or the comments of the silly conservative base

-10 ( +9 / -19 )

But some of us would like to know how it really was.

So do I. I am just speaking to the mentality of the government and apologists. I forgot one part of the circle: it's apologise, complain about drudging up the past, deny, repeat.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

'"Why can they not see how these types of statements are the reason this issue keeps going around in circles?"

Because they are using circle logic.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

God this embarrassing for the people of Japan.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

No Evidence? Dear Japanese Right Wingers and Apologists. There are lot's of evidence, the thousands of victims and witnesses from Philippines, Korea, Taiwan, China and Indonesia. These women don't know each other, they don't even speak the same language, however their stories are all synced. .. What are these evidences that are lacking? CCTV Footages? Semen Samples? Pamphlets with picture menu of these women proving their willingness to be prostitutes like the ones they use in delivery health/ soap lands? or time cards of these women during their shifts?

How about showing UN the evidence that the Japanese soldiers didn't rape and forced women to sex slavery during the WW2?

16 ( +24 / -8 )

You need to understand Japanese culture and way of thinking to comprehend this ... In short, they are saying that they do not have self incriminating evidence in their own hand, which they can trust, and therefore have unanimously decided they do not need to be blamed for it! Well, it is a silly psychology but I see it all the time at various levels.

14 ( +18 / -4 )

The govt. really is hopelessly enslaved to right wingers on this issue. One step forward ,two steps back every time. Watch out for the inevitable - "See , they our neighbours still don`t like us, why?" This is gonna do wonders for them. Again. Dinosaurs.

11 ( +15 / -4 )

@CajunH2O

I was talking about infants, and you're talking about women.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

‘Forceful taking away’ of comfort women by the military and government authorities could not be confirmed in any of the documents that the GOJ (government of Japan) was able to identify,”

Yep, JIA managed to burn what they needed to burn.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

And neither did the United States government in a 7 year 30 million dollar cross-agency investigation.

http://www.archives.gov/iwg/reports/final-report-2007.pdf

-11 ( +12 / -23 )

and round and round we go....

11 ( +13 / -2 )

CajunH2O Hi Weeaboo when did America not Apoglize about Vietnam.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

My take on this, and my heart goes out to all victims and I condone NONE of it (war) nor do I support it, but, its a war! People are out to hurt each other! What of the family members that were killed, tourtured, beaten, set on fire, left to die? Those who survived that, we never hear from. Japan has apologized and paid large sums to victims, but its never enough. I also dont think that it was part of the Japanese military tactic or scheduled plan to round up all women and use them as sex slaves. These were individual decisions where a whole country should not be held responsible. Bottom line is, apologies have been made, monies have been paid, please forgive and forget! Ive said my 2 cents, whats yours?

-5 ( +9 / -14 )

After all the apologies comes the big lie to the UN. Thanks to Abe Japan has shot itself in the foot. Japan has lost all credibility among all the world's nations. There will be blowback from all of this. That is inevitable. The pity is that Japan has been relatively good these past 70 years. Abe is really screwing Japan to protect his dead reatives.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

Did one expect anything better from a criminogenic society? Not me. A Japan that conducts " full scale fact finding study" on its self will certainly find itself to be be spiffier than Caesar's wife.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Sorry, but the whole "we'll investigate our own crimes (and find ourselves innnocent)" stupidity may work on a domestic level, but it doesn't work in the real world.

16 ( +25 / -9 )

“The Japanese delegation will explain our position” on that and other women’s issues at the Geneva conference that begins Feb 15, [said] a foreign ministry official... The U.N.-sponsored conference is part of the ongoing Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women.

I can't believe this how Japan intends to 'contribute' to the convention on eliminating discrimination against women. How utterly inappropriate and flat out insane. This will make Japan an international laughingstock – and still, Abe's approval rating is sky high.

Obviously, the kamikaze spirit of futility is alive and well at Japan's foreign ministry in terms committing geopolitical suicide in the name of nationalistic aims. Sigh.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Well, this

http://www.japantoday.com/category/podcast/view/asia-news-weekly-prof-park-yuha-paints-a-very-different-narrative-of-comfort-women-than-korean-version

and especially the links in it, cast a lot of doubt on much of the claims - the 200k+ number in particular appears to have been co-opted from other situations.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

kiboushaFEB. 03, 2016 - 07:53AM JST So, for anyone who wonders why we keep hearing about demands for apologies, do you still wonder after reading this article ?

This isn't going to change any IJA-apologist's views because they never really wondered why we keep hearing about demands for apologies in the first place. To the IJA-apologist, the cause for the demand for apologies is simple: greedy whores shaking down the government for money.

This is no longer a historical dispute for the people who defend Japan. All of Japan's evidence has been knowingly and intentionally destroyed and everyone knows that. It's an identity dispute. Are you on Team Japan? Then the IJA is part of Japan and Japan can't have done anything wrong. If you disagree, well, that must mean you're on team Korean/Chinese whore, and all you care about is squeezing money out of an already struggling government so obviously you can't be trusted.

15 ( +17 / -2 )

Japan tells U.N. it has found no evidence of forced WWII sex slavery

Fine. I hope more statues get erected. And more textbooks in the western classrooms emphasize that horrific practice.

12 ( +17 / -5 )

Maybe they paid somebody to round them up for sex slavery? I mean, it's all semantics at the end of the day. The Japanese army did a lot of rotten things in WWII, why this compulsion to avoid admitting the facts?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

In light of this unacceptable turn of events, we can only hope that a more widespread outrage takes place. It's clear now why the government only put forward a poultry 830m yen. Funny how IJA's abhorrent acts are well documented... unless you happen to be a Japanese lawmaker or historian, of course. Absolutely disgusted.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

So the Japanese government is branding all the victims and witnesses liars, absolutely disgraceful. If Japan is not careful, it's pride will be it's own undoing.......again.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

The Japanese civilian and military authorities willfully destroyed as much self-incriminating evidence as they could lay their hands on when defeat was no longer to be denied. Now the Japanese (people) must live with the consequences of "no evidence" ( which is, by the way, NOT the case).

7 ( +9 / -2 )

And neither did the United States government in a 7 year 30 million dollar cross-agency investigation.

Fine. Then why did Japan lie to Korea and say they were sorry? (Obviously, I know you disagree) You keep ignoring the fact this is about insincerity and cunning tactics used by the current government.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Yet another own goal by this pitiful, denialist administration. I just hope somehow the surviving former "comfort children/comfort women" that were so horribly abused find peace.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Seeing as there is a conflict in interpretation, the UN should perform an extensive study into the issue and put it to rest permanently, having both sides accepting the final outcome beforehand. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be any official understanding of what happened and this naturally produces a polarized perception of what happened. Physical and documentary evidence is 100% required and should be plentiful if over 200,000 really were state-organized as alleged. A UN investigation should easily be able to find the truth

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Criminal denial to protect Imperial history of atrocities, right after the Emperor visits. Unconscionable. Time to stop protecting the nazi past and confront it. There's no reason to keep it. Burying it or deleting it does not make it go away. Only no longer being an apologist can help Japan. The Emperor tries but the government doesn't listen and makes sure everyone knows that the right wing and apologists are still in charge

10 ( +11 / -1 )

“‘Forceful taking away’ of comfort women by the military and government authorities could not be confirmed

The headline "Japan tells U.N. it has found no evidence of forced WWII sex slavery" may be misleading here (from what I can gather). The Japanese government doesn't seem to be denying that it perpetrated sex slavery (not admitting it either, though), but instead is denying direct "forceful taking away" of comfort women (an obvious attempt to obfuscate the issue).

So, even if the IJA didn't take these women from their homes at gunpoint, the fact still remains that the IJA directly forced comfort women to continue providing sex, and barred them from leaving (refusal to perform sex and attempts to escape from comfort stations meant certain torture by the IJA and even death).

This means that even if there was absolutely no "forceful taking away" of comfort women directly by the IJA/GOJ, many (most?) of those women were still sex slaves because once signed up, there was no backing out.

There is plenty of documented and indisputable proof that the IJA was involved in establishing and operating comfort stations — even in this article the Japanese government admits that there was "military involvement in the establishment of comfort stations." Moreover, both former Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakasone and Sankei’s former president, Nobutaka Shikanai wrote extensively in their memoirs about their involvement in establishing and operating comfort stations.

The Japanese government's perpetration of sex slavery was very hands-on, organized and systematic. As Shikanai wrote in his memoir: "When we procured the girls, we had to look at their endurance, how used up they were, whether they were good or not. We had to calculate the alloted time for commissioned officers, commanding officers, grunts, how many minutes. We also had to fix prices according to rank. There was even a prospectus we learned in (military) accounting school."

12 ( +13 / -1 )

It's time for these old Korean women to move on and get a life. Throughout the history of war there have been rapes, and slavery. There are no rules in war, because the victor will rewrite history. Does Germany demand an apology from Italy from when Rome sacked the Germanic tribes and turned every conquered person into a slave? No, they don't waste their time and neither should a bunch of old whining complaining women.

-25 ( +4 / -29 )

Another attempt to do a self investigation on your own wrong-doings while dismissing the mainstream position and claiming nothing happened....so typical of this govt.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but leave the investigations to historians. Bring it up with the UN only after the international consensus of historians has changed. Until then just shut up, because it makes your repeated apologies insincere and your compensations seem like hush money.

Even if evidence is found and the consensus on this particular issue somehow changes, the classy thing for Japan to do would be to remain apologetic for all the other indisputable atrocities that came with invading other countries and starting a war. Obviously, that's asking to much though.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I heard they are planning to erect a similar statue in front of the consulate in Busan. I hope they do, as clearly Japan will never acknowledge history except inadvertently through protest. Absolutely dumbfounding that THIS is what Japan brings to a UN committee, and while seeking permanent membership status to boot! Laughingstock indeed.

21 ( +24 / -3 )

Again..... obvious question is why

3 ( +4 / -1 )

SirBently:

Well said.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

LIARS.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

“In a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.” — Albert Camus

6 ( +7 / -1 )

There doesn’t have to be any evidence. They being caught red handed- the victims are still alive, and are being violated by crap like this as we speak.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

shouldn't the title read:

"After burning all files, photos, reports and information of any kind that may amount to evidence; and further waiting until 99% of eyewitnesses are dead, Japan tells U.N. it has found no evidence of forced WWII sex slavery".

shocking and interesting to see a whitewash of history before my very eyes. whitewashing is as old as the egyptian pharaohs who used to destroy all evidence of prior pharaohs.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

Bottom line is, apologies have been made, monies have been paid, please forgive and forget! Ive said my 2 cents, whats yours?

This isn't an article about SK demanding more apologies. It's an article about Japan denying any wrongdoing for an atrocity they supposedly apologized and paid monies for. This comes almost immediately after a deal made with SK that was supposed to put the matter to rest.

My two cents is that Japan's democratically-elected right-wing government is just as responsible if not more so for preventing any forgiving and forgetting from taking place.

18 ( +19 / -1 )

Stuff like this makes me ashamed to live in this country.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

The purpose of establishing what happened is indeed to create rules for conflicts, to make sexual violence completely out of bounds, to apply international peer pressure to reduce the likelihood that sexual violence is used to pursue political goals.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Sigh...if they have found no evidence that women were forced by Japanese Imperial army into becoming comfort women, then why did they strike a deal with South Korea over this issue? Are they not slapping their own faces by denying it now? How do they expect countries in SEA to forgive them and move on if they keep denying what had happened in the past. People need proper closure in such matters.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

We're talking about events from 70 years ago when in the most advanced nation in the world black people were treated as dirt and rape was only a crime if accompanied by physical violence.

What is common during that time or who did the crime, America or Japan or any country doesn't matter. IT is a crime, an inhumane, horrendous and barbaric act. That is why we study history, covering up would not solve the problem. In this case, Japan should emulate the Emperor and condemn the act and ask for forgiveness. Then no ody would have a case objecting Japan into the UN security council.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

could not be confirmed in any of the documents that the GOJ (government of Japan) was able to identify

So the documents they decided to regard as identified, didn't contain certain evidence.

That doesn't mean that something that was not documented did not happen (nor that it did, either).

In 2016, what is the point of all this?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Ah, the pattern!

A Japanese public figure visits a country wanting to seem to show remorse and reconciliation, then it's quickly followed by a total denial of the things they're assumed to be remorseful for.

This time, they just waited a few days until after the SK "deal" and the monarchs left the Philippines to announce it.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

And it .. or better they keep on going.

And what about this sentence / explanation:

".....interviewing people including former military officials"

Of course those former military officials will deny any wrong-doing! Or should they also bow and say we are sorry but don't remember?

Put this "affair" to an end, finally confess what really happened and I am sure this issue can be put "ad acta".

By the way, it was also women from the Netherlands and Australia, as you can find on the internet.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Posted below is a full unedited copy of a list to all responses the Government of Japans representatives submitted to the committee set up to review article 18 of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women reporting to sixty-third session conference - 15 February-4 March 2016.

The GoJ representatives have not denied that women were abducted by force. The reply is in conjunction and context to public utterances of right-wing politicians, and organizations contained in recent media reports, "recent public statements that there was no evidence that proved the forcible removal of ‘comfort women". etc Scroll down to question 9.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan would do well to update Measures Taken by the Government of Japan on the Issue known as "Comfort Women" website and reflect recent political and diplomatic developments. I am of the opinion that all LDP MP must fully support official government policy of atonement stipulated within agreements. If any MP feels unable or unwilling to undertake this commitment then he or she should consider stepping down.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/policy.html

日本 から CEDAWの質問への回答(Reply to List of Issues),,,,,,

Advance unedited Version........Responses to the List of Issues and Questions with regard to the consideration of the Seventh and Eighth Periodic Reports (Japan)

http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CEDAW/Shared%20Documents/JPN/CEDAW_C_JPN_Q_7-8_Add-1_22898_E.docx

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I don't recall any historical account of US soldiers killing infants for fun.

The 1968 My Lai Massacre is a good place to start looking. Granted, that particularly horrific story wasn't the result of officially US government sanctioned policy. But it does go to show that war zones can produce some truly barbaric behavior, no matter who the actors are.

The "comfort stations" however? I'm more inclined to believe 200,000 victims than I am a small, vocal minority of men who are saying, for all intents and purposes, "They were asking for it. Look at how they were dressed."

This "absence of evidence" purposefully ignores the fact that the Japanese government facing defeat engaged in an orgy of document burning that would put the shredders at Enron to shame. Very few discerning historians have allowed this particular nugget to fall to the wayside unnoticed.

Japanese nationalists are impeding Japan's journey towards social and cultural maturity. They need to dry up and blow away.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

If you deliberately narrow the scope of what you are searching for evidence of far enough it becomes surprisingly easy to find no evidence of whatever it is you don`t want to find evidence of.

They seem to have limited their search for evidence to government document archives, which would have been purged at the end of the war if they had even bothered to record stuff of this nature in the first place, and interviews with people who would have had every incentive to lie about what happened because anyone who had anything useful to say about it would have been directly involved in a serious crime against humanity.

The mountains of evidence from other sources to the contrary - such as eyewitness accounts of women who went through it - conveniently seem to have fallen outside the scope of their search.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

to the victor go the spoils and women unfortunately are part of the spoils in war, including invasions. Japan is not alone in being spared from such atrocities. Russian, US militaries, including SKorean men raped many Japanese women back in the day, but you don't hear of massive rallies decrying foul play again and again. SK got lucky and only proved that if one keeps crying loud enough you have quiet that child. Japan had already paid SK for that issue and yet their own government at the time pocketed the money and none went to where it was to be received. This afterall is part of war and invasions something of which many countries know fully well.

-18 ( +1 / -19 )

How does the statement mentioned in the above article contradict the apology? The wording in "Abe's" apology is as follows

“The issue of comfort women, with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women, and the Government of Japan is painfully aware of responsibilities from this perspective. As Prime Minister of Japan, Prime Minister Abe expresses anew his most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.”

Sarah Soh's book (The Comfort Women: Sexual Violence and Postcolonial Memory in Korea and Japan) argues that the women were in the main indentured. This means that people in their home-towns received an up front payment, and after that the girls belonged to the comfort station and in that sense, they were sex slaves (as defined by the UN, for instance). These women therefore "suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds", and so the system constituted "a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women". No government, in the OECD at least, would become involved in indentured sex which is very illegal in Japan and all democratic nations of the world. That is why the Japanese are apologizing for it.

It is also known that in some cases, such as the Dutch, women were ‘forcefully taken away,’ but not (at least in the books that I have read) as a matter of documented policy. Indentured sex slaves and rounding up women in trucks are both unacceptable but, as Hashimoto argued, the former is something that one might hope to apologize for and lay to rest, but the latter is so abhorrent that apologies should never end. Making this distinction is not splitting hairs.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Stuff like this makes me ashamed to live in this country.

I do worry about the Japan's image in the world for consumers, every time Japan is claiming such of nonsense against mainstream history, people will look down even more on Japanese product. It might reach a point where we would rather have to conceal that product are made in Japan. When will this govt stop doing damage to Japan and Japanese product ?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Why is it that if someone denies the holocaust they get labeled a holocaust denier and in Europe they can even be arrested, but Japan can get away with saying this crap and not be ostracized? That's hypocracy.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

DEBUNKING THE JAPANESE “COMFORT WOMEN” DENIER TALKING POINTS

http://fendnow.org/2015/03/debunking-the-japanese-comfort-women-denier-talking-points/

I wonder what is south Korea reaction to this.

Maybe there is no forceful by Japan definition but there is certainly tricking women into it which can be count as 'forceful' as well. And whoever said Japan don't need to apologize are ignorant. This is the reason why Japan need to keep on apologizing.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Japan tells U.N. it has found no evidence of forced WWII sex slavery

You have got to be KIDDING me. After the deal it supposedly made with South Korea..............and now this. What an insult to the memory of these wronged women! Shame on Japan!

13 ( +16 / -3 )

Some of you may recall my comments wrt the statue near the J-Embassy, I said Japan needs to EARN its removal.

Well this BS at the UN is NOT how you go about it!!

Clearly Japan once again shows its utter insincerity with respect to the sex slave issue!

My heart goes out to those still living to hear about this has got to beyond painful!! Japan is still MENTALLY raping these women, they clearly have NO SHAME what so ever!

Another VERY EMBARASSING day to be living in Japan, its getting harder to stomach the poison this country spews!!

And they have the nerve to say they should have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, Japan are you NUTS!

10 ( +12 / -2 )

timtak: "How does the statement mentioned in the above article contradict the apology?"

It contradicts the nature of apology, period. It proves that the apology Abe made was ANYTHING but sincere.

Christopher Glenn: "Shame on Japan!"

No kidding. And yet, when the WHOLE WORLD points out how wrong Japan is on this, and it's their fault the issue stays in the limelight through their denials and lack of honest apologies, they call it "Japan bashing" and just stick their fingers in their ears, etc.

Time to start erecting more statues across the world; especially in Holland, Indonesia, The Philippines, England, Australia, and in Japan as well (though of course the last would never happen). Put some up as well in every nation that has people FROM these countries.

17 ( +17 / -0 )

In 1992, Korean Prof. Ahn Byeong-jik of Seoul University talks about Japanese comfort station system. An investigation conducted in South Korea by Professor on 40 survivors resulted in all testimonies not being credible. He also concluded that half of comfort station owners were Korean. The fact that half of comfort stations were run by Koreans maybe surprising to you. The brutality of some segments of the Imperial Japanese military is well known and have been tried at the Tokyo trials. Problem is that surviving Korean comfort women tells different version each time they recount their experiences. The South Koreans started attacking even the good will of former PM Murayama who spent working for the surviving comfort women as a head of AWF. Based on the testimonies that they gave, many are now questioning the stories behind it. If this is a court of law, one needs to prove their allegations and it's really not up to Japan to disprove them.

-16 ( +4 / -20 )

New headline:

"The world tells U.N. it has found no evidence of Japan being able to act like a responsible country"

15 ( +18 / -3 )

dakara, Japan is not a normal country and there will be hell to pay for this news report.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

What a disgusting bunch of slimy weasels! Man up Japan and stop trying to change history! Everybody knows the facts and the more they deny it the more ridiculous they look! Now, let's see if Abe has the guts to jump in and stand by his recent apology and pledge of compensation. Or, will he turn tail and use this report as a stance to further deny and downplay the atrocities committed by Japan during its imperial rule of Asia?

9 ( +12 / -3 )

and there will be hell to pay for this news report.

This time we are in agreement

"The world tells U.N. it has found no evidence of Japan being able to act like a responsible country"

Absolutely. Um........you can forget about a seat on the security council now Japan.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Or in other words - "we found significant evidence that Japanese administration was complicit in abducting young women and forcing them into slavery; so we burnt them all. Now there is no evidence.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Here in Hawaii, we have thousands of Korean Bars that are begging for Japanese to spend there money and buy them a drinkie. Maybe they developed this skill during the war?

-15 ( +3 / -18 )

@smithinjapanFEB. 03, 2016 - 12:54PM JST

It contradicts the nature of apology, period. It proves that the apology Abe made was ANYTHING but sincere.

I think this is a case where Japan-bashers bash Japan using their imaginations. There's a cycle to this:

1) Japan offers to apologize.

2) Japan-bashers forget any attempt to calculate either based on history or reason how much rope they are handing out, instead opting to pretend they said "Unconditional surrender."

3) Japan's contrition falls short of these pretensions.

4) Japan-bashers try and calculate whether Japan backtracked or not not based on the real apology weight, but by their delusion of unconditional surrender, thus ensuring they would calculate that Japan backtracks though it has little relation to reality.

Cycle repeats some time later.

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

As if they were going to admit to it in the first place. Just brush it under the carpet.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It's not Japan bashing、it's telling someone you care about that they are doing something to embarrass themselves. Just as I expect any true friend to do for me

12 ( +12 / -1 )

@sfjp330

How about you try being a sex slave for a few years, and we can see how you recall those repressed memories you have several years after your slavery… These women are victims of PTSD; of course they're going to have immense difficulty recalling specifics, that's how human brains work. This just goes to show that the conditions were MUCH WORSE than if they were able to tell us everything about the comfort stations, there's a reason these women are subconsciously purging that time of their lives from their memories.

Poor, poor women; they don't have too much time left and this is how the GoJ treats them. Shameful.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

When will mainstream Japanese realize the harm Abe is going to Japan? I am very pessimistic that this move will stir them to action. I'm guessing that there will be no Chinese or Koreans rushing to Japan during the Chinese New Year holiday season. And why do they insist on documentation and completely ignore that oral testimony of the victims, who know better than anyone.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@AADV123FEB. 03, 2016 - 01:27PM JST

How about you try being a sex slave for a few years, and we can see how you recall those repressed memories you have several years after your slavery… These women are victims of PTSD; of course they're going to have immense difficulty recalling specifics, that's how human brains work. This just goes to show that the conditions were MUCH WORSE than if they were able to tell us everything about the comfort stations, there's a reason these women are subconsciously purging that time of their lives from their memories.

Wait a minute. I'm interested. Why do you start off assuming that they are even victimized? There IS substantial cash involved here, which means Conflict of Interest. And with all these PTSD theories excusing people for not bringing up verifiable (thus refutable) details or keeping their stories straight, making a plausible accusation is easier than ever.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

K.Y on a national scale.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

@Kazunaki Shimazaki The only "Conflict of Interest" is for the Right-wingers currently controlling the Japanese government. A lump sum of money-however large- would be a slight hinderance on the GoJ due to the fact that it's a one-time payment and not an annual payout.

As for "proof" of the comfort women existing: There have been countless statements from both Japanese Veterans and Officials admitting that Comfort women and Comfort stations existed. Now let's see.. What do you think the conditions weed like in those stations? Based off of knowledge that extreme prejudice against Korea and her people was rampant at the time, do you think the comfort women were treated as women? Or tools?

This is too upsetting for me to talk about any further tonight; its really making me sick to my stomach to believe that some people are able to either deny the facts of the Comfort women issue, or blame the women themselves.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

One has to wonder, if documented evidence to the contrary is presented, whether the Abe government will accept it with the zeal it did the revelations that Yoshida's published findings about the involvement of the Japanese government were inaccurate.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

AADV123 FEB. 03, 2016 - 01:46PM JST Based off of knowledge that extreme prejudice against Korea and her people was rampant at the time, do you think the comfort women were treated as women? Or tools?

In every war that man created, let me know which war that women were treated as women? Is Japan just a exception for you?

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Shameful, sickening, disgusting. Unfortunately I have to think mainstream Japan is supportive of Abe and the jiji gumi; after all, they keep re-electing them.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Like it or not, serious historians have not found documentary evidence for direct government or military in the recruitment of women. That includes the very left-wing Yoshimi Yoshiaki and more recently the Korean scholar Park Yuha.

AFIK none of the surviving comfort women has claimed that they were recruited by Japanese government officials or Japanese military personnel. Recruitment was farmed out, very often to Koreans.

Saying that neither the government nor the military recruited the women is not equivalent to denial of the comfort women system itself.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

If Korea had agreed back in 1965 for Japan to handle individual compensation, as Japan had first suggested, Japan would have immediately publicized, and given claimants a deadline by which to submit claims with substantiating evidence. Japan would have honored the claim. But based on the treaty, it was up to the South Korean government to set up these measures. the South Korean government did not take sufficient interests in its people such as comfort women who actually suffered from the colonial times, but that was the responsibility of their own goverment. Japan made reparations in good faith to the Korean government instead of to individuals because that’s the way the Korean government wanted it. The Korean government was supposed to pay the individual reparations. Even if comfort women reparation was included in the 1965 treaty, the Korean goverment would've kept the money anyway. It was not Japan’s fault that Park Chung-hee used the money for infrastructure instead. Many Koreans for years didn’t even know that Japan paid reparations.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

These frail Ladies have been betrayed, ignored, humiliated by international courts, hearings, tribunals, Governments, or the lack of, and shamefully the charities and organizations purporting to represent their interests.

Their dignity has been sacrificed for a politically expedient deal to justify the cruelest of historic inaction. It is neither a surprise or a revelation that the current Government of Japan is reluctant to take legal responsibly, answerable to the people, a substantial proportion, by post war birth are devoid of responsibility. One can still hope that justice will prevail.

However it pains to point out, one must be prepared sooner or later to accept this will not come about from any politician or political initiative.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Tie up a final and irreversible deal on the issue, then make this statement.

What a country!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Let a 3rd party investigate for Japan and South Korea. How about Switzerland?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

many of you can't seem to see the forest beyond the trees. the gov't has said for quite some time now that there is no direct evidence that the gov't or the military actively took part in abducting these women. they have always agreed on the point that comfort women were used and have apologized for it. even the kono statement has said this so this is nothing new. but as soon as the japan bashers see these types of headlines, they immediately turn off their rational thinking.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

akanoguy01 FEB. 03, 2016 - 02:59PM JST many of you can't seem to see the forest beyond the trees. the gov't has said for quite some time now that there is no direct evidence that the gov't or the military actively took part in abducting these women.

Comparing notes of denials by Japanese politicians of "comfort women" issues, how do you explain the evidence of the Dutch women whose testimony of sexual enslavement in the then Dutch East Indies? To be sure it had been preceded by a long series of denials in Japan government, but the main allegations had been proved in a Dutch court under Western rules of evidence as far back as 1948. That court, which had been convened in what was then the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia), had considered allegations that Japanese army officers had forced many Dutch women seized in the Dutch East Indies into sexual slavery. One Japanese military official was executed and many others were sentenced to jail terms. The Dutch went on in 1956 successfully to press the J-government to pay compensation to the women. In 1985 details of the comfort women story were published in an official Dutch government history of the war.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I am thinking "Don't they ever learn?" but the answer is obvious.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Apologies and monies were paid in order to shut people up, not to admit guilt. It was war, and they did nothing wrong. Women were not forced by the hand, but by the mouths they had to feed.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Interesting. None of the people here shows any evidence.

It is really hard for me to understand people who blindly believe in something without checking the facts.

All Koreans have to do is just to show one piece of evidence that Korean women were abducted by Japanese soldiers. Surprisingly, they failed so far. I mean evidence such as diaries, letters, photos, and so on, not self-contradicting "testimonies".

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

It's 2016. Seriously, who gives a f--k...

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@AADV123FEB. 03, 2016 - 01:46PM JST

This is too upsetting for me to talk about any further tonight; its really making me sick to my stomach to believe that some people are able to either deny the facts of the Comfort women issue, or blame the women themselves.

What sickens me is how many people are willing to throw out such things as actually proving your charges correctly, without huge missing links, when it comes to comfort women. I remember having more sympathy for them back when I did not realize how much the world was willing to bend rules to these accusers' favor.

@sfjp330FEB. 03, 2016 - 03:03PM JST

how do you explain the evidence of the Dutch women whose testimony of sexual enslavement in the then Dutch East Indies?

A small, localized incident where the ringleader seems to be a mere Major and how when he was spotted he was actually STOPPED? I think most countries will be pissed if actions by mere Majors are translated to be some kind of official policy of the government or military.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

tokyo_eiyuuFEB. 03, 2016 - 07:29AM JST

I just read a few weeks ago that Japan apologized about the comfort women predicament. Then they release this report. I have no idea what to think about their intentions.

Japan apologized for the prostitution. Prostitution was legal at that time but is morally wrong from today's perspective. The apology was not for the alleged "abduction".

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

Interesting. None of the people here shows any evidence.

Neither do you. Actually, you did try to prove they were prostitutes using links with the victims describing how they were kidnapped and raped by the IJA.

It is really hard for me to understand people who blindly believe in something without checking the facts.

Here we agree. Its really hard for me to understand how you have such a blind hatred of Koreans that you overlook victim accounts.

All Koreans have to do is just to show one piece of evidence that Korean women were abducted by Japanese soldiers. Surprisingly, they failed so far. I mean evidence such as diaries, letters, photos, and so on, not self-contradicting "testimonies".

Oh, so victim testimonies are not reliable now? That's funny considering you previously claimed they were evidence. Furthermore, diaries are every bit, photos etc., can be doctored and cropped.

One question though: if these women weren't raped, were not sex slaves, why would they protest? How could they possibly be bitter for so long? Money? Unlikely.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki: "1) Japan offers to apologize. 2) Japan-bashers forget any attempt to calculate either based on history or reason how much rope they are handing out, instead opting to pretend they said "Unconditional surrender." 3) Japan's contrition falls short of these pretensions. 4) Japan-bashers try and calculate whether Japan backtracked or not not based on the real apology weight, but by their delusion of unconditional surrender, thus ensuring they would calculate that Japan backtracks though it has little relation to reality."

Allow me to fix that for you:

1) Japan offers to 'apologize' for how relations are, not for the reasons why. They offer money, but demand you not call it compensation. The politicians who offer to do such send their wives, on the same day, to Yasukuni Shrine, and other politicians say the sex slave issue is mere South Korean propaganda, and the women well-paid whores.

2) People AROUND THE WORLD point out that it is a pretty insincere apology if they allow that stuff to go on while they are supposedly saying I'm sorry, and that's it's not at all an apology if you won't or won't allow it to be said what happened in the first place, and flat out state it is 'not compensation money, but a pay-off so that the issue will never be mentioned again'. Japanese get defensive, have no counter argument to the facts, and call it "Japan-bashing" and run and hide until the next 'genius' who was involved says he 'investigated himself and found no wrongdoing'.

3) Japan's contrition does not actually exist, but is pure lip-service, based on the fact that articles like today are DAILY occurrences in Japan.

4) Japanese get even more defensive and just start saying everyone is wrong except them, that there is no proof, then when shown proof say, "Oh... well... that's ONE incident!" then when shown more, say the same. Then when they're own people admit doing it, say that person has a 'foggy memory', etc.

NOW it's correct.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.comFEB. 03, 2016 - 03:29PM JST

Oh, so victim testimonies are not reliable now? That's funny considering you previously claimed they were evidence.

When? I linked to their "testimonies" to show how unreliable and how contradicting their testimonies are.

why would they protest?

Money. There are Korean hate groups such as Cheong Dae Hyeop 정대협 that make huge amount of money out of the "protest". If you do not know what Cheong Dae Hyeop is, you should start from finding what it is.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki FEB. 03, 2016 - 03:18PM JST A small, localized incident where the ringleader seems to be a mere Major and how when he was spotted he was actually STOPPED?

Of the half-dozen documents Mr. Yoshimi, historian had discovered, there was a notice written on March 4, 1938, by the adjutant to the chiefs of staff of the North China Area Army and Central China Expeditionary Force. Titled “Concerning the Recruitment of Women for Military Comfort Stations,” the notice said that “armies in the field will control the recruiting of women,” and that “this task will be performed in close cooperation with the military police or local police force of the area.”

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Kazuaki ShimazakiFEB. 03, 2016 - 01:19PM JST @smithinjapanFEB. 03, 2016 - 12:54PM JST

It contradicts the nature of apology, period. It proves that the apology Abe made was ANYTHING but sincere. I think this is a case where Japan-bashers bash Japan using their imaginations. There's a cycle to this: 1) Japan offers to apologize. 2) Japan-bashers forget any attempt to calculate either based on history or reason how much rope they are handing out, instead opting to pretend they said "Unconditional surrender." 3) Japan's contrition falls short of these pretensions. 4) Japan-bashers try and calculate whether Japan backtracked or not not based on the real apology weight, but by their delusion of unconditional surrender, thus ensuring they would calculate that Japan backtracks though it has little relation to reality.

You are paranoid. There is no such thing as a 'Japan basher'. It's just that most people don't like those who hide from their responsibilities and cover up past atrocities against humanity. Cycle repeats some time later.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan tells U.N. it has found no evidence of forced WWII sex slavery

Well, duh! If they found any they would've burned it!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I'll say it again. This issue is not about what happened in the war, it's about the government back peddling on their apology made just a short time ago. It's about now. Why can't Japanese separate the two parts of this problem?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

When? I linked to their "testimonies" to show how unreliable and how contradicting their testimonies are.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/2-s-korean-ex-sex-slaves-demand-direct-apology-from-abe-2

Nowhere in any of your posts did you criticize the reliability of the testimonies. In fact, you pointed to it as proof that they were in fact prostitutes. So, when you say victim testimony is inaccurate, what you really mean is that it is inaccurate, unless it supports your claim, no?

Money. There are Korean hate groups such as Cheong Dae Hyeop 정대협 that make huge amount of money out of the "protest". If you do not know what Cheong Dae Hyeop is, you should start from finding what it is.

Money? Lol After over half a century of protests, 10k or whatever the sum happens to be, is really quite the haul. What an absolute waste of time for these women if that were the case.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

sfjp330FEB. 03, 2016 - 03:48PM JST

a notice written on March 4, 1938, by the adjutant to the chiefs of staff of the North China Area Army and Central China Expeditionary Force. Titled “Concerning the Recruitment of Women for Military Comfort Stations,”

You can read the said document here on page 9. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_2.pdf

It is written in Japanese. What it says is that recruitment of prostitutes must be done through credible procurers, and that those who might use illegal method of recruiting women, such as abduction, must be excluded through working with the police. Read by yourself.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

May be the evidence is stored with all of those out of date police reports in the basement in the police station in Osaka.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

It is written in Japanese. What it says is that recruitment of prostitutes must be done through credible procurers, and that those who might use illegal method of recruiting women, such as abduction, must be excluded through working with the police. Read by yourself.

Really interesting stuff CH3CHO. Check out what else the AWF has to say about the recruitment of comfort women:

They were enticed in a variety of ways. There are clear evidences that, even in the early days, some were told lies about what their work would be. It is recognized that those recruiters often resorted to coaxing and intimidating those women to be recruited against their own will, and there were even cases where administrative/military personel directly took part in the recruitments. According to the docunent cited below, it can be known that many women taken from Korea were under the age of 21, something not allowed in Japan. Some were no more than 16 or 17, and had been in no previous contact with the world of prostitution. On the other hand,there were Chinese women in comfort stations in China

http://awf.or.jp/e1/facts-05.html

7 ( +8 / -1 )

US Army and Allied Army issued many research reports, interrogation reports and bulletins about Japanese Army including Brothel section from 1942 to 1945. In this, “Comfort Women were well paid prostitutes”. Please check the page,in which there are documents and videos in English. http://nadesiko-action.org/?page_id=3393 It's last, only one.The comfort woman's most part were Japanese.Please look for fact from here.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Brian WhewayFEB. 03, 2016 - 04:17PM JST

May be the evidence is stored with all of those out of date police reports in the basement in the police station in Osaka.

The collection of documents regarding ianfu during WW2 in the archives of Japanese Government and those of the US Government is disclosed here. http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/document.html

While the Japanese Government is willing to collect and show related documents, the Korean government has, oddly, no such move.

takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.comFEB. 03, 2016 - 04:09PM JST

http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/2-s-korean-ex-sex-slaves-demand-direct-apology-from-abe-2

Nowhere in any of your posts did you criticize the reliability of the testimonies.

In your link, my comments are these.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/2-s-korean-ex-sex-slaves-demand-direct-apology-from-abe-2#comment_2133721

http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/2-s-korean-ex-sex-slaves-demand-direct-apology-from-abe-2#comment_2133736

They are nothing but criticism of the credibility of the testimonies.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Maybe there is a compromise that reaches between the unstoppable righteous Government of Korea /Korean Council and the immovability right wing objective denial?!

This will require legislation that empowers both Governments. Also the coming together of past statesmen, political sciences, the Judiciary, under the patronage of royal assent, that encapsulates trust, backed up with binding arbitration. So to start, some names of former statesmen irrespective of family or academic background ?...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's time for these old women to move on and get a life.

Will you proclaim the same sentiment during the annual " Japan was a victim " rituals that takes place in media here every August? No, that's different of course , isn't it.

9 ( +10 / -2 )

marcelitoFEB. 03, 2016 - 04:50PM JST

the annual " Japan was a victim " rituals that takes place in media here every August?

If you could understand the Japanese language, you would not get that misunderstanding.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

CH3CHO, Kazuaki Shimazak, etc..

I am going to keep saying it. IT IS ABOUT INSINCERITY!!!!

You have all sent these llnks a million times, and made the same arguments over and over.

If you do not agree with the government apologising, that's your thing, go tell them.

AS for now, the government has made apologies, which you probably have said 'but we already apologised. Korea will never forgive us. Poor Japan'

WHICH IS IT? DId the government apologise and will leave the matter final and settled? or Would you rather the government rescind their apology and try to prove nothing bad was done?

You can't have both.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

If those people seriously believe that they have firm evidence which was forced to be prostitte, their individual names and proven original picture include person herself with a particular soldier dates shown, individual names ( first names , and family names) , residential address at that time, which day exactly went to meet with a soldier ! All of those personal informations must be on their local papers, Japanese papers , and degital news media as well . Does those old women seriously want to be released those personal informations ? I wouldn't !

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

They are nothing but criticism of the credibility of the testimonies.

If they were criticism you would have stated so. You can't have it both ways.

And as for the AWF link: any response to that? Note, thatt was a Japanese aource, written in plain English- can't blame it on language discrepencies.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I doubt if there was evidence the government would reveal it, so why the surprise? All that's needed is a document, a receipt for example, or a signed order. I don't deny some of the women were abducted or coerced into the sex slave role, but until a concrete piece of evidence pops up all you have to go on are just word of mouth statements with nothing to back it up. Sadly until then you're going to have the right wingers/nationalists vehemently denying any such thing as 'comfort women' and that in turn causing SK to keep bleating on about apologies.

That's all the evidence you need - a signed order that can be verified, a receipt which can be proven to be genuine, etc...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

justbcuzisayFEB. 03, 2016 - 05:00PM JST

WHICH IS IT? DId the government apologise and will leave the matter final and settled? or Would you rather the government rescind their apology and try to prove nothing bad was done?

You can't have both.

I do not understand what you are talking about. The government made it clear. The government apologized for the prostitution, while denying alleged abduction. Hence the letter to the UN. It is that simple.

Ayako CleavinFEB. 03, 2016 - 05:03PM JST

Does those old women seriously want to be released those personal informations ? I wouldn't !

Two Korean former ianfu testified before US Congress. Each of the two made oral and written testimonies. The problem was that the oral testimony and the written testimony of the same person contradicted in both cases.

http://archives.republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/33317.pdf

Read the contradicting testimonies of Yong Soo Lee and Koon Ja Kim.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

All that's needed is a document, a receipt for example, or a signed order. I don't deny some of the women were abducted or coerced into the sex slave role, but until a concrete piece of evidence pops up all you have to go on are just word of mouth statements with nothing to back it up. Sadly until then you're going to have the right wingers/nationalists vehemently denying any such thing as 'comfort women' and that in turn causing SK to keep bleating on about apologies.

Or just look at the information provided by the Asian women's Fund.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I do not understand what you are talking about. The government made it clear. The government apologized for the prostitution, while denying alleged abduction. Hence the letter to the UN. It is that simple.

Ok, we are on the actual topic now. Why would they apologise for prostitution? That was legal, we are talking about sex slaves. Not the same thing.

As Prime Minister of Japan, Prime Minister Abe expresses anew his most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.

How about this little tidbit on the agreement:

In addition, together with the Government of the ROK, the Government of Japan will refrain from accusing or criticizing each other regarding this issue in the international community, including at the United Nations.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.comFEB. 03, 2016 - 05:38PM JST

Or just look at the information provided by the Asian women's Fund.

Yes, AWF is a good place to start with. http://www.awf.or.jp/e-preface.htm

Now, going back to the news report.

Tokyo has offered repeated apologies over the issue, and says that while there was military involvement in the establishment of “comfort stations” there is no evidence its officials were involved in the abduction of women for the purpose.

Is there anything in the AWF site that is against the above view?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Is there anything in the AWF site that is against the above view? Namely this and it is quite clear:

http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/facts-05.html

It is natural to assume that, in the beginning, the women sent from Korea were already involved in prostitution, but that, over time, women from poor families mainly came to be taken. They were enticed in a variety of ways. There are clear evidences that, even in the early days, some were told lies about what their work would be. It is recognized that those recruiters often resorted to coaxing and intimidating those women to be recruited against their own will, and there were even cases where administrative/ military personel directly took part in the recruitments. According to the docunent cited below, it can be known that many women taken from Korea were under the age of 21, something not allowed in Japan. Some were no more than 16 or 17, and had been in no previous contact with the world of prostitution. On the other hand,there were Chinese women in comfort stations in China.

http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/facts-12.html

The women were forced to follow the military time after time, and had no freedom whatsoever. When the Japanese military began retreating from one place to another in Southeast Asia, the women were either abandoned or destined to share their fate with defeated military. Some perished and others narrowly escaped to be protected by the United forces.

http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/korea.html

It appears that first prostitutes were recruited from Korea to go to comfort stations abroad. Later daughters of poor families were recruited by various means. It is known that frauds in the name of good jobs began to be practiced from this time. There are testimonies that girls were recruited against their own will by coaxing and intimidating. From Korea girls under 21 years old were taken to comfort stations, which was prohibited in Japan. Among them there were even girls who were 16 or 17 years old.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.comFEB. 03, 2016 - 05:57PM JST

Is there anything in the AWF site that is against the above view?

Namely this and it is quite clear:

By no means. AWF hides "by whom". The Korean women were told lies by Koreans. Japanese used ethnic Koreans for the recruitment of prostitutes in Korea. How could Japanese who could not speak the Korean language tell lies to Korean women who can only speak Korean?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

How to present your issue is not mine, but come out of your +class island please

0 ( +0 / -0 )

All Koreans have to do is just to show one piece of evidence that Korean women were abducted by Japanese soldiers.

Nope, because Japan destroyed its records, as this link shows https://www.archives.gov/iwg/japanese-war-crimes/introductory-essays.pdf

Besides which, the sex slaves were recruited from numerous countries

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Japanese used ethnic Koreans for the recruitment of prostitutes in Korea. How could Japanese who could not speak the Korean language tell lies to Korean women who can only speak Korean?

Ethnic Koreans were still subjects of Japan at the time. How much power would they have to refuse orders? Is it not both Japanese and Korean culture to always defer to those older and in higher positions?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

justbcuzisayFEB. 03, 2016 - 06:19PM JST

Ethnic Koreans were still subjects of Japan at the time.

In that case, they should point fingers inside Korea, where the persons that told lies to the Korean women into prostitution lives.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

In that case, they should point fingers inside Korea, where the persons that told lies to the Korean women into prostitution lives.

Nope. Far more fingers should be pointed inside Japan

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Christopher GlenFEB. 03, 2016 - 06:14PM JST

All Koreans have to do is just to show one piece of evidence that Korean women were abducted by Japanese soldiers.

Nope, because Japan destroyed its records, as this link shows https://www.archives.gov/iwg/japanese-war-crimes/introductory-essays.pdf

I love this comment of yours, because it convinces me that Koreans really have no evidence.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

CH3CHO: "The Korean women were told lies by Koreans. Japanese used ethnic Koreans for the recruitment of prostitutes in Korea. How could Japanese who could not speak the Korean language tell lies to Korean women who can only speak Korean?"

You're saying not a single Japanese person in colonized Korea spoke Korean? but Koreans were all bilingual? Yet they communicated with others, no? In any case, even if SOME Koreans sold the women into prostitution, who bought them? Who were the purchasers in this human trafficking, CH3CHO? Someone who buys a slave is still engaged in the slave trade even if they were not in the selling, my friend, and there is NO WAY they did not know the sex-slaves were duped -- even when, and they have admitted, it was not them doing the coercing themselves.

"In that case, they should point fingers inside Korea, where the persons that told lies to the Korean women into prostitution lives."

What's funny about that comment, besides the obvious BS, is that the 'in that case' indicates that until you point you thought otherwise; unless it's just more of the same "It's true until it goes against what I say" BS takeda shingen has called you out on but you keep trying to dance around.

"I love this comment of yours, because it convinces me that Koreans really have no evidence."

Again, you were not convinced before? haha

And Chris is right, all fingers are rightly pointed at Japan, amigo, and now even MORE fingers are pointed at them thanks to this report.

But what's amusing is watching these right-wingers squirm and try to defend the indefensible. When the 14-year-old in Tsuruhashi not long ago called for the mass execution of South Koreans in the area (something you defend as freedom of speech, I might add), she is known to have said, "a nanjing style massacre" -- and yet you guys deny Nanjing, too!

12 ( +13 / -1 )

CH3CHO

Ethnic Koreans were still subjects of Japan at the time.

In that case, they should point fingers inside Korea, where the persons that told lies to the Korean women into prostitution lives.

What? The government at that time in Korea was Japanese. Therefore, if a Japanese official tells the Korean person to do something, they are acting on behalf of the Japanese government. You don't deny Korea was occupied by Japan, do you?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

justbcuzisay: CH3CHO has been contradicting himself constantly on this thread alone, today. If you pointed out, along the lines of what you say in that any Korean selling another at the time would have been acting on behalf of the Japanese government, he'd agree. But point out that Mitsubishi Heavy Industries won't apologize to former POWs from Korea and other nations (only the US) because South Korea was a colony at the time and technically therefore Koreans could NOT have been POWs because the nations were not at war and people like him side with Mitsubishi.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

It's not surprising there is no evidence. I would urge people to read "Researching Japanese War Crimes: Introductory Essay. There are numerous reasons discussed including the fact that after the war issues like the "comfort women" were of little interest to the Allies, the fact that the majority of documents seized were returned to Japan during the Cold War where many of them still remain classified, and the simple fact that many documents still held, have not yet been translated. However, it is the destruction of evidence prior to the Allied Occupation that is probably most relevant.

Here is an except...

Historians also confront the problem of missing war crimes evidence. The problem was particularly acute regarding Japan. Intensive Allied bombing and accidental fires destroyed many documents during World War II. Moreover, at the close of the war, Japanese authorities hid or destroyed much evidence of the country’s war crimes. On August 15, 1945, the Japanese government announced the decision to accept the Potsdam Declaration and surrender to the Allied forces, but the first Allied forces did not arrive in Japan until August 28. On August 16, Imperial Headquarters ordered Japanese military units to destroy all secret documents, many of which are believed to have contained evidence of war crimes. While it is standard practice for governments to destroy evidence in times of defeat, in the two weeks before the Allies arrived in Japan, various Japanese agencies—the military in particular— systematically destroyed sensitive documents to a degree perhaps unprecedented in history. Estimates of the impact of the destruction vary. Tanaka Hiromi, a professor at Japan’s National Defense Academy who has conducted extensive research into remaining Imperial Japanese Army and Navy documents in Japan and overseas, claims that less than 0.1 percent of the material ordered for destruction survived. Whether or not his estimate is entirely accurate, most historians agree that the vast majority of incriminating evidence was lost in the cover-up.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Rhis is about now not old ways<><> and timea

0 ( +0 / -0 )

South Korea came up with the same, no evidence. As Professor Park has detail with her investigation. Tenders in Korean Newpaper during Japan occupation for businesses to create brothels does not prove sex slavery Just the opposite. Just like today there are a percentage of women who rather be a sex worker then a decent hard working women. These women who are demanding action for pay work that they applied for. THat not Slavery. It also take away from the women who refuse to bow to the Japan dollar during the war. The sex worker are really traitors to their nation. After the war they scream Sex Slavery so to would not be ALIANATED FROM SOCIETY. There is a name for these people which I can not write here.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Mike3113King, that is a disgusting thing to say.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Ayako CleavinFEB. 03, 2016 - 05:03PM JST If those people seriously believe that they have firm evidence which was forced to be prostitte, their individual names and proven original picture include person herself with a particular soldier dates shown, individual names ( first names , and family names) , residential address at that time, which day exactly went to meet with a soldier ! All of those personal informations must be on their local papers, Japanese papers , and degital news media as well . Does those old women seriously want to be released those personal informations ? I wouldn't !

This is very disturbing attitude, especially coming from a woman. If you were raped would you feel it fair that you had to produce a picture and name of the man who raped you? Sad.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

So, we are supposed to believe that thousands of foreign women "volunteered" to service the Japanese military personnel. How patriotic of them!

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Physical and documentary evidence is 100% required and should be plentiful if over 200,000 really were state-organized as alleged.

dcog9065, you seem to have historical commonsense.

A UN investigation should easily be able to find the truth

Yes, but without any investigation, UN has demanded Japan apologize South Korea. You know who is the chief.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

And I suppose Japan didn't use prisoners of war for barbaric chemical and biological warfare agent experiments - the US will back Japan up, because they let the War Criminals off in exchange for the 'valuable' info they delivered to the US. Given all the other atrocities Japan (and the Allies) committed, why doesn't Japan just fes up, give humble apology and give large compensation payments to those women who have a fairly reasonable case? Abe seems to have money enough to squander on building Japanese forces up so they can operate 'out of area' in support of the 'Great Satan's 'World Domination' warmongering.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Funny, I thought this was resolved at least 3 times now. where doe the money go?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

tinawatanabe: "Yes, but without any investigation, UN has demanded Japan apologize South Korea. You know who is the chief."

Doesn't matter who the chief is -- the other members back it, and proof has been shown time and again across the world that people do NOT sympathize with Japan on this issue. Now, you know who is looking for permanent membership on the UN, right? Well, guess who's not going to get it thanks to whining like this? And you know what will happen when Japan doesn't get it? they'll blame everyone else and claim to be the victim -- some probably even claiming it's a South Korea-backed conspiracy or something equally ridiculous.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

"Tokyo has offered repeated apologies over the issue, and says that while there was military involvement in the establishment of “comfort stations” there is no evidence its officials were involved in the abduction of women for the purpose."

While it may be true that there are no written records of abductions, anyone with even half a brain can deduce that the Japanese Imperial Army was involved in forcibly taking women to be used as sex slaves. These Japanese government officials who said this should be fired.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

To Japan apologists here: The Japanese government at the time of WWII was a malevolent fascist criminal enterprise, right? It brought misery onto it's neighbors right? At least some young girls and women were taken against their will and raped and kept as sexual slaves, right? Let's say there is no evidence it was organized by members of the Japanese government. Why focus so much on denying it when it was ultimately the responsibility of the thugs who ran Japan at the time, right? Certainly there were some honorable Japanese officers around. But the gangsters and criminals, including the emperor, generally were responsible anyway, no? Why not focus on the big picture here? Maybe Japan should be more forceful in saying, "ultimately, it was all the responsibility of the Japanese actions at the time and we as representatives of the government have a responsibility to say: It's all down to the Japanese WWII government, regardless of the difficulties in securing exact documentation of everything." The tactic of trying to write them all off as willing prostitutes is shameful and disingenuous, whether or not you believe government authorities were involved. Japan made a miserable situation for everyone, right? Don't you agree? I think people who say "they were all paid prostitutes" are living in a weird fantasy. But this doesn't mean China, and even Korea, don't have their own propaganda and hate machines that inflate and distort facts. The point is for someone to be an adult about it, so that people can move on.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

You are uneducated if you believe Koreans story. " The Japanese kidnapped 200,000 girls from their homes but Japan destoyed the evidence"

Then why didn't they say anything until 1991? when Asahi shimbun carried the story.

Asahi Shimbun admitted that it was a fabricated story, which pulled the ladder out from under South Korea who took it as golden opportunity for another Japan bashing.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Funny, I thought this was resolved at least 3 times now. where doe the money go?

Funny, I thought Japan apologised. This article has nothing to do with compensation, did you read it? This article is about Japan again agreeing to settle the matter once and for all, and then denying any responsibility for the thing the JUST apologised for.

In the statement made by Japan and Korea, just one month ago, it says:

In addition, together with the Government of the ROK, the Government of Japan will refrain from accusing or criticizing each other regarding this issue in the international community, including at the United Nations.

Yet, Japan has gone to the UN to deny their involvement?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The Japanese are only interested in the facts.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

Women were taken against their will and raped and kept as sexual slaves, right? yes correct but by their own FATHERS. Again do your research. How gullible to be persuaded by post war propaganda. Do your research and again direct all those taking in by post war propaganda to read Professor Park Book on war time event involving sex workers. By all means it was a great paying position with bonuses and privileges. JUst like today sex worker who gain favour with Drugs Cartels. You all know of these sort of women. Where the REAL HERO were the women who refuse the easy life of a sex worker and done all they could do to foil Japan dominance over Korea. SEx Slavery Comments are doing those WOMEN do did not participate in THE EASY LIFE of a sex worker a great disservice.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The Japanese are only interested in the facts.

That made me laugh out loud. Thanks. What the government issued textbooks, and NHK present as 'facts' are just as biased and propaganda filled as EVERY nations mainstream media and curriculum. Many of us realise that truth cannot be found by only receiving information from a limited amount of sources.

BUT, according to the MOFA's official website, the government of Japan has

In addition, together with the Government of the ROK, the Government of Japan will refrain from accusing or criticizing each other regarding this issue in the international community, including at the United Nations.

How is that for a fact?

http://www.mofa.go.jp/a_o/na/kr/page4e_000365.html

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Ch3CHO

By no means. AWF hides "by whom". The Korean women were told lies by Koreans. Japanese used ethnic Koreans for the recruitment of prostitutes in Korea.

Ah, so now its occupied Korea's fault, eh?

How could Japanese who could not speak the Korean language tell lies to Korean women who can only speak Korean?

Oh, I don't know, maybe interpreters? There is already a history Koreans immigrating to Japan soon after the Meiji Restoration. The idea thst language is somehow a barrier is bogus. If that were case, then how did Japan annex Korea? Guess that didn't happen either?

Lastly, several thousand Korean and Western slave laborers will used in Aso mines and were even killed in the Atomic bombings. Did the Koreans recruit them too?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@John-San

Women were taken against their will and raped and kept as sexual slaves, right? yes correct but by their own FATHERS.

I can see a reasonable case that numbers are inflated, direct involvement is unclear, etc, though I'm not convinced by this line. However, your view is too far gone for me.

JUst like today sex worker who gain favour with Drugs Cartels.

So you do see the Japanese WWII government as like a cartel? OK. We are getting somewhere. Well then, you should reason this out more. People act all sorts of ways when a cartel is in power. But the reality is that fear and violence are much more the operative motivators.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The US spent millions on this subject recently and they weren't able to find dirt, what makes you think UN will find any? Documents that were confiscated by the US were all photographed and then returned they are also filed at the Kokkai toshokan and if you the proper paper works any one can go through them.

There is no way IJA was able to destroy all documents on this subject since it was not even considered a crime back then. They was no genocide like what happened in Germany. In Germany there were various incriminating evidence about the genocide so how in the world could the IJA destroy all the paper work when they didn't even consider it a crime?

Basically the people saying that all evidence was destroyed has no idea how much paper work it takes to move massive amount of people from one place to the other spread out in various branches of the government.

Proving there is no ghost is much more difficult then claim there are one since claiming there is only requires belief without any proper evidence to support that belief.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Japan's soldiers were in high moral

Are there any specific atrocities that you think Japanese soldiers committed during WW2 or prior to it?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@tinawatanabe Ah, now you don't support it. It's hard to follow you as you seem to change your opinion frequently. Your underlying unchanging conviction is that Japan is always good, and you try to make everything fit that idea. I see. I think we can look at governments and how they act with a skeptical eye. It depends on what your principles are. "Japan is always good" is not a principle. But if human development, freedom, well-being, etc., are principles, then we can certainly criticize all governments when they degrade these human values. I think the Japanese loss in WWII was probably a boon for the Japanese people, in the end. However, I can understand arguments to the contrary in some cases. But not your arguments which are based solely on nationalism (your belief that your identity is your nationality) - a false view of reality, and modernity's worst product.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

There is no way IJA was able to destroy all documents on this subject since it was not even considered a crime back then.

Yes, the prostitution was legal at that time.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

OK, all of the post war propaganda believers. A Japanese soldier on leave with a fist full of dollars and he want to enjoy myself by raping a women who is not going to comply at all. Remember there a very good chance that when he goes back to the jungle he might not be coming back. Yes that the way he will want to enjoy his time which could my last enjoyment in his life. GET REAL.. really think about it. for millennia there have been sex workers and for millennia to come there will be sex worker. Not sex slaves. Can you see what your saying. Put yourself in the same position as Japanese soldier. Would you rather spend your money and maybe the last enjoyment in your life with a non conforming sex slave or a willing sex worker. Really think about it !!!!

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

There is No Evidence for "sexual slaves". But there are evidences for prostitutes as follows: ・US Army,which was the enemy of japan in those days, researched; ・Japanese newspaper articles in those days; ・Recently, the research of a Korean professor;

Let' think simply! Comfort Women were well paid prostitutes.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

tina

please tell me your response to the FACT that the Japanese government has promised to stop talking about this, specifically to the UN. Ignoring me just proves you are uninterested in facts.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I really do think the majority of Japanese people are viewed incorrectly by Koreans and Chinese as most Japanese don't approve of Japan's past wars of aggression. Japanese people were victims too of Japan's WWII gvmt. However, those like "tinawatanabe" who think Japan's neighbors have nothing to complain about do give Japan a bad name and do fuel a nasty image for the Chinese propaganda machine to latch on to. The Japanese right wing is quite damaging, and all the more so as Japan declines in economic and political power.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@John-san and Tina-Watanabe

OK... you enjoy denying the comfort women thing... we understand.

But just out of interest...

Are there any specific atrocities that you think Japanese soldiers committed during WW2 or prior to it?

If you could mention any specific atrocities we'd be interested to hear...

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Let' think simply! Comfort Women were well paid prostitutes.

No, let's think logically. Japan employed slave labor in its mines and factories. So, why wouldn't they have sex slaves? Slave labor is okay, but sexual slavery isn't? Do tell.

@John-san:

I have no idea what you are yammering about and your innability to hit the return key makes your ramblings even more difficult to understand.

I'm just gonna give you a "thumbs down" and let you be.

Yes, prostitution was legal at the time.

Child prostitution wasn't and sex slavery most certainly wasn't legal.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

the Japanese government has promised to stop talking about this

Historical truth can not stop by anybody. It is the mission of history. Abe did not say anything about historical truth, only wanted SK to stop demanding money and apology because it is settled issue 50 years ago.

SK and Japan are welcome to research and find the truth. Learning accurate history is beneficial to people's growth.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

There is No Evidence for "sexual slaves". But there are evidences for prostitutes as follows: ・US Army,which was the enemy of japan in those days, researched;

The army of the same country that helped a lot of Japanese war criminals avoid trials so that they could run Japan again as a Cold War puppet state.

・Japanese newspaper articles in those days;

Actual newspapers or propaganda rags?

・Recently, the research of a Korean professor;

That sounds vaguely credible.

Let' think simply!

I wouldn't imagine that anyone who is taken in by historical revisionist whitewashing is capable of anything else.

Comfort Women were well paid prostitutes.

You would think a few of them might actually testify to this if it were actually the case.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@John-San

JUst like today sex worker who gain favour with Drugs Cartels.

Would you rather spend your money and maybe the last enjoyment in your life with a non conforming sex slave or a willing sex worker. Really think about it !!!!

I think you are going through a lot of mental gymnastics here to get yourself to a place where you can always see Japan as always good. I think this is the core of nationalism: identifying yourself with something so strongly that you cannot admit anything that might contradict it. I think psychologists might say "cognitive dissonance." You are thinking about it in order to get to the position from where you started. I don't know if the Japanese military had anything to do with prostitution and I am not an expert on the history or on the issue of sexual coercion. It could be that Japanese official involvement has been inflated or invented. I don't know. However, this logic you are using doesn't help your case at all. Quite the contrary. I have studied a thing or two about war and violence, and it a little familiarity with the topic makes you realize the lengths to which people are driven. WWII was absolute hell for all the sides. People were driven to madness. If you delve into it, you will not have such a sanguine view of what women's lives were like or the mental state of soldiers and populations.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Learning accurate history is beneficial to people's growth.

For once we agree, Tina. Maybe someday you will learn and accept the truth.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@choiwaruoyaji

Are there any specific atrocities that you think Japanese soldiers committed during WW2 or prior to it?

First, you tell your country's atrocities committed during WW2 or prior to it. Or your country was an angel? How about AFTER ww2?

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

@tinawatanabe Cognitive dissonance! This is also not "beneficial to people's growth." We are not our country. It's OK to criticize any country, even the one in which one was born. What values should societies strive for? That's a much better place from which to proceed. And, you'll feel better and grow more.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

First you tell your country's atrocities committed during WW2

Deflection. This is a story about Japan on a forum about Japan. Do you or do you not believe Japan did anything wrong in WW2? Simple question.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

@takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com I think tw already wrote that Japan did nothing wrong. It's an important distinction. What does Abe think, do you think? The Japanese emperor seems to go around saying Japan has great remorse. But I think we see two Japan apologists here who strongly disagree. I do think there are critics on the Japan side who must believe Japan did wrong and are only contesting the details? Or are all those like Abe secretly harboring the opinion that Japan was a benevolent force in WWII? The don't see the Japanese power establishment of the time to be more like North Korea today than the Japan of today?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

yes Burma railway just for one. while on atrocities Russia on the allied side 20 million jews, slavs and muslins murdered. American soldiers burning women and children in the cave networks on Saipan. It had to be done to capture the enermy. I can on but that WAR. and they have all been admitted by the Japan and the American governments except Russia. So get of the Japanese back. We all cause atrocities during war time it a fact and some are call friendly fire. I just hate people denying true history with hear say propaganda. the western world prior to the war were very moralistic about sex worker. In Asia sex workers were legal and common place. Two totally different worlds. The west see sex worker has some sort of low life were in Asia the best sexworker became celebrators. try look at the subject with open eyes from both sides. LIke the Allieds had places with women and man sex worker and to deny it is to deny human nature.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

The army of the same country that helped a lot of Japanese war criminals avoid trials so that they could run Japan >again as a Cold War puppet state. Don't you Know "The International Military Tribunal for the Far East"? That was the terrible trial by which a winner judges a loser. Why didn't US Army(UN) take up this issue of comfort women?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@tinawatanabe

Historical truth can not stop by anybody. It is the mission of history. Abe did not say anything about historical truth, only wanted SK to stop demanding money and apology because it is settled issue 50 years ago.

SK and Japan are welcome to research and find the truth. Learning accurate history is beneficial to people's growth.

Well, no they are not. Both the leaders agreed to stop talking about it. In a joint-agreement.

Again: http://www.mofa.go.jp/a_o/na/kr/page4e_000365.html

In addition, together with the Government of the ROK, the Government of Japan will refrain from accusing or criticizing each other regarding this issue in the international community, including at the United Nations.

@ shallot

Cognative dissonance for sure

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I've got a better question, Take. Japan employed slave labor domestically, in mines and factories, no?

So, why wouldn't they use sex slaves? Suddenly the military/industrial panels of the day developed some morals and thought that was too much?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

First, you tell your country's atrocities committed during WW2 or prior to it.

~ Organizing the slave trade.

~ Treatment of slaves in the Caribbean and elsewhere.

~ Revenge atrocities committed after the Indian Mutiny.

~ The Amritsar massacre at Jallianwala Bagh (I've visited there)

~ Repatriation of the Cossacks after WW2.

~ Brutal post-war campaigns in Kenya and Malaysia.

~ Concentration camps in South Africa during the Boer War.

~ Aden.

~ The Opium Wars.

Well, there are more than this list... if you need more details about any of these I can give them. I don't deny any of these atrocities. I accept them as historical facts and am willing to discuss them.

How about you Tina... what atrocities do you accept have been committed by Japan? I'm interested to hear.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

@John-San

"...while on atrocities Russia on the allied side 20 million jews..."

I think you made a mistake here. The Shoah/holocaust was done by Japan's ally (historically): Nazi Germany.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@choiwaruoyaji

well played. Too bad the other side is incapable of understanding the idea that many of us here fully admit our countries have committed atrocities. Doesn't fit in the whole 'victor writes history' narrative they were forced to memorise in school. For all the claims about valuing the lessons of history, the meaning of those words seem to be lost in translation.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

yes Burma railway just for one. while on atrocities Russia on the allied side 20 million jews, slavs and muslins murdered. American soldiers burning women and children in the cave networks on Saipan. It had to be done to capture the enermy. I can on but that WAR. and they have all been admitted by the Japan and the American governments except Russia. So get of the Japanese back.

This tells us a lot about your way of thinking.

You mention one Japanese atrocity and then try to list many committed by other countries.

You want to make Japan look good, right?

It seems that it is you who is trying to spread propaganda and just paint Japan in a positive light.

Your propaganda and insincerity are easy to spot.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@choiwaruoyaji Me too. But I think Tina's point is that Japan is a victim. October 8, 1996: Emperor Akihito said in a speech at a dinner with the South Korean president, Kim Dae Jung: "There was a period when our nation brought to bear great sufferings upon the people of the Korean Peninsula." "The deep sorrow that I feel over this will never be forgotten."

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Japanese are the masters of hypocrisy, say one thing to somebody and the complete opposite to another. seriously youd think you were in a school playground and not listening to grown Japanese bureaucrats

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@wtfjapan I don't know if I'd say "Japanese are the masters of hypocrisy..." But I do think Japanese society is much organized around psychological avoidance. Not nearly everybody is like that though. The current emperor has made reasonable statements about history, I think. The apologies have maybe been disingenuous in some cases though, and carefully worded to be more like non-apologies.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I'm just really interested in hearing what atrocities Japanese people will accept their forces committed in WW2 or before.

I hear TinaWatanabe and JohnSan spend a lot of time denying the comfort women etc.

deny... deny... and deny again...

I think they are very happy just denying things.

And they spend all their time doing that.

But the more difficult thing...

Facing up to the atrocities committed by Japan... based on the evidence provided by Japanese historians... they do not spend any time on that...

In fact, they do not do that at all... they are too busy enjoying their "denying time"...

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I mean the apologies of some of the politicians.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

tinawatanabe: "Then why didn't they say anything until 1991?"

Why do some Hiroshima and Nagasaki victims refuse to talk about their experiences until the end of their lives? Sometimes they don't wish to relive such ordeals, but in the end they want the truth to be told and history properly remembered -- not made up by politicians -- and in some cases they want to hear the words "I am sorry" without it being a twisted joke, as is the case with your politicians in regard to sex slaves. The world knows what a Japanese apology means thanks to people like Abe, and apologists like yourself.

"First, you tell your country's atrocities committed during WW2 or prior to it. Or your country was an angel? How about AFTER ww2?"

Denial, denial, denial... and deflection to boot! Don't avoid the question, tina.

"Yes, the prostitution was legal at that time."

Forcing women into slavery and raping them was not, and that's what Japan did. You know it, and the world knows it, and now Japanese look like fools again for denying it. You should see what people are saying! and don't say you don't care, because you very often say, "You don't know how it makes Japanese people feel!"

"Japan's soldiers were in high moral under the Emperor"

They most certainly were not. You don't go raping people and having sword competitions to decapitate as many as possible when you are 'moral'. You don't force your people off the cliffs (as in Okinawa with Itoman) or demand they kill themselves with grenades in caves if you are moral (do you deny these things, tina?). You don't conduct chemical weapons tests, vivisections, and other disgusting and heinous acts on living beings if you are moral. And you most certainly don't deny it all if you are moral. And tina, the Emperor was FAR from moral, so I guess in that respect you are right about the IJA soldiers mimicking his immorality.

The current emperor, who can at least admit the atrocities from time to time and that the Imperial bloodline has Korean blood in it, and who works for peace and defies the opinions of politicians when he can, is a far better example of someone who has some morals.

choiwaruoyaji: "How about you Tina... what atrocities do you accept have been committed by Japan? I'm interested to hear."

Now that she has no choice but to answer, she's probably left the thread -- then she cannot say she saw the questions, and that it is not true, etc.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

@shallots, I do not call what Ms. Watanabe wrote. Seems to me she does not want to answer the question, so I do not know.

Its quite clear what Abe and his ilk think. Japan was the victim and the IJA was just liberating the rest of Asis- purely benevolent, no personal gains to think of.

Frankly, I am astounded by the number descendants of WW2 leaders still in power, and cannot help be worry they would love to take the country down the same nasty road.

I rather like the Emperor. Far more remorseful and cognizant of the suffering Imperial Japan caused.

This being said, I think comments as "the Japanese are masters of hypocrisy" and "shame on Japan" do not really further discourse. Rather, they tend to offend make people even more defensive.

What bothers me more than anything is posters like TW and CHO trying so, so hard to make it out as if Japan was faultless. They absolutely were not. Nor was America. The atomic bombings and the JA internment camps to name a few. I readily admit they were hideous affronts to human dignity, but I see in posters such as TW and CHO no willingness to admit Japan did any wrong. Which is sad.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

takeda.shingen: "What bothers me more than anything is posters like TW and CHO trying so, so hard to make it out as if Japan was faultless. They absolutely were not. Nor was America. The atomic bombings and the JA internment camps to name a few. I readily admit they were hideous affronts to human dignity, but I see in posters such as TW and CHO no willingness to admit Japan did any wrong. Which is sad."

Well said, although I would say it is way beyond just sad; it's also disgusting and pathetic, and as much as comment like "shame on Japan" may not be conducive to discourse, it is unfortunately necessary that they realise that their opinions and the desperation to make Japan look faultless, such as with this report (a self-investigation, of course!), does indeed serve only to embarrass the entire nation and destroy any good standing Japan has on this and many other issues. And even though Abe's apologies were clearly insincere, it is such shaming, and the constant headlines about Japan's reactions to the sex slave statue in particular, that brought about the attempt to 'bury' (more literal than most thought) in the first place.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

So, why wouldn't they use sex slaves?

Japan has no culture of "slaves" and "sex slaves". Generally the military needs resident's cooperation in the war. If it would cost a long time for a war,the military don't behave himself like a tyrant. Of course,there are various situations.

In the WWⅡ, the most of the people in Japan were cooperative. Korean,who were "Japanese" in those days, were also. I know Korean,especially young people, has very complicated feeling,in case hostility. But according to the old people and various documents,Not "slaves";

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

@Take Uchi

Just out of interest... what atrocities do you accept were committed by Japan during WW2 and before?

Above, I have listed some atrocities that I believe my country has committed.

How about you?

What specific atrocities do you believe Japan has committed, based on evidence from Japanese historians?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Nonsense: Aso Group apologized for the use of slave labor. So, again, why wouldn't they have sex slaved? The westerners that were there most certainly there on their own fruition.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

...the classy thing for Japan to do would be to remain apologetic...

The smart thing is not to expect Japan to be classy on this issue.

Mike3113King: "Here in Hawaii, we have thousands of Korean Bars that are begging for Japanese to spend there money and buy them a drinkie. Maybe they developed this skill during the war?"

Maybe they learned this skill during the war from the Japanese, their s̶e̶l̶f̶-̶d̶e̶l̶u̶d̶e̶d̶ self-claimed 'betters', eh?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Thefes no point in korea or china to try to do anything. I truly did not expect the Japanese to sink this low(ok, maybe a little). If this is the kind of attitude and response we can expect to acknowlege past war atrocities, Japan is beyond saving. The country will collapse on its own,as the world will abondon them(already happening)

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Many of the posts above seem to blur the difference between operating sex slave stations and rounding up the slaves.

Japan has owned up to the former, and denies the latter.

That, in and of itself, is not logically contradictory. It is, IMO, not historically accurate. But, again, is not logically incompatible.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Japan has owned up to the former, and denies the latter.

No, they haven't "owned up" to operating sex slave stations. Japan admits that the government took over procurement of women for the comfort women program but they categorically deny that those women were "slaves". The women did receive pay based on a per-soldier basis and some of the comfort women accumulated quite a substantial amount. Japan also denies that women were forced to become prostitutes against their will. Japan's stance is that some of the comfort women who have been demanding compensation were prostitutes PRIOR to entering the comfort women program. At least one former comfort woman admits this, yet that didn't stop her from suing the Japanese government for compensation.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Fadamor,

Yes, and no. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#Apologies_and_compensation

4 ( +4 / -0 )

There are readily available accounts by foreign nationals (John Rabe for example) and Chinese Christians in Shanghai in 1938 that explicitly describe Chinese women volunteering to serve in Japanese military brothels. They thought this was a good thing because it would keep Japanese soldiers away from "respectable women."

In the Dutch case in what is now Indonesia, the women were actually liberated by the Japanese military itself because they had been taken against standing orders that prohibited the recruitment of women without their consent.

George Hicks. The Comfort Women: Japan's Brutal Regime of Enforced Prostitution in the Second World War. New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1995 contains numerous references to "comfort women" who earned a substantial amount of money, some even becoming brothel operators themselves. Oddly, the author does not seem to notice that a number of the cases he presents undermine the depiction of the "comfort women" as "sex slaves."

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Get over it! ...

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Bullfighter: you and me are the only one,s who have did any research on this subject it has come show with the majority blinded by Christian moralistic post war propaganda. As for the slave culture the USA would be the pin up boy on Slavery compared to Japan slave history and Japan written history is 10 fold compare to 350 years of slavery in the USA

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Throughout history "guilty people" have always denied the truth. The best thing for this right wing group to do is admit that this wrong thing took place and move on. If they don't admit this took place it will never be forgotten!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Why apologize when there's nothing to apologize about? Japan blinked!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Don't you Know "The International Military Tribunal for the Far East"?

Of course I know. Don't patronise me.

That was the terrible trial by which a winner judges a loser.

Tell you what. When there are NO wrongful convictions in Japanese courts, when there are no old men going slowly insane sitting in solitary confinement on death row because decades ago they were forced to confess to crimes they didn't commit, then criticise the war crimes trials. OK? You have no right to complain about miscarriages of justice whatsoever.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Yes, just as NIST found no evidence of controlled demolition at the WTC; when questioned, they admitted they hadn't looked. Perhaps Abe & Co. should, perhaps, look a little harder for evidence of forced prostitution? Starting with the known attitude of Japan's occupying forces to people of the occupied countries? Would it not, bearing that knowledge in mind, be extremely unlikely the occupying forces would not have their 'wicked way' with the locals, if they so desired?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Facts don't need evidence facts need remorse....

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The Japan government is totally shameless for the denying the sex slaves ever happened and IJA-government had such policy. These are iron clad facts and the whole world knows about it. They are recorded in the entire world's history books. This is exactly like Hitler denying he had a policy of killing Jews. No one in the world with any intelligence would believe this kind of crap coming out from the J government.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

decibel

These are iron clad facts and the whole world knows about it.

Really? Please enlighten us of those facts with irrefutable evidence supporting making them iron clad.LoL

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

CH3CHO Is very correct.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

decibelFEB. 04, 2016 - 10:39AM JST

The Japan government is totally shameless for the denying the sex slaves ever happened and IJA-government had such policy.

You missed the point of the argument. Read the news report.

Tokyo has offered repeated apologies over the issue, and says that while there was military involvement in the establishment of “comfort stations” there is no evidence its officials were involved in the abduction of women for the purpose.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

If Imperial Japan had nothing to hide and had done nothing wrong from 1931 to 1945, why destroy so many documents as the Second World War was ending or even during its immediate aftermath?

Documentary evidence of this destruction is rare but does exist. It is supported by other primary sources, such as diary entries and testimonies from civil servants and military personnel. We know that documents were burned by the military and political institutions of Imperial Japan. What motivated them to do this?

A simple goal fueled by fear and shame: to protect the perpetrators from indictment for war crimes.

For example, on 18 August 1945 the Imperial Household Ministry issued a directive to senior officials to burn important documents. It was feared the Allied powers would use these documents to press charges against Emperor Showa for war crimes.

In addition, on 21 August, Yoshihiro Tokugawa, Chamberlain to the Emperor, wrote in his diary that he had burned important documents following advice that they could lead to criminal charges against some people.

These are just two examples but there are more.

Irrespective of the comfort women issue which is still highly politicized rendering an unbiased historical appraisal challenging but not impossible, one thing is irrefutable. The political and military leaders of Imperial Japan did their best to eliminate the evidence of their actions in conquered territories to avoid facing the resulting legal and moral consequences.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

You missed the point of the argument. Read the article again.

Many of the Lolas were taken forcibly by Japanese soldiers while in their home. A few were taken while they were at home while a few were either working; or running an errand for their parents. Many of them were still single but there were other married women. A Lola from Bicol was asleep when the Japanese came to their village and rounded up all men and young women and were taken in the elementary school building; where they were held until the next morning;. Then, they were taken to the municipal hall. Another Lola was told by her mother to buy food from the nearby town while the other one was gathering "sisid" (wet) rice near the pier in Malabon.

http://awf.or.jp/e1/philippine-00.html

Do you still say the IJA didn't abduct women? Its from the AWF, so surely you will accept the source no?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Well, there are more than this list... if you need more details about any of these I can give them. I don't deny any of these atrocities. I accept them as historical facts and am willing to discuss them.

How about you Tina... what atrocities do you accept have been committed by Japan? I'm interested to hear.

Brilliantly put. I am fully aware of my country's atrocities, and am willing to discuss them openly.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

LeTizz

Lack of evidence is never considered as evidence of a specific event. Basically IJA could have been burning reports on how the POWs were treated.That would have been more damaging when defeated.Other possibilities are corespondents with Russia and/or Germany. Basically if they still had update reports on Unit 731 still intact which the US confiscated that had been released by the US government recently then anything about the comfort women would had been at the bottom of the list in priority.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.comFEB. 04, 2016 - 12:16PM JST

A Lola from Bicol was asleep when the Japanese came to their village and rounded up all men and young women and were taken in the elementary school building; where they were held until the next morning;.

Do you still say the IJA didn't abduct women?

What does that have to do with ianfu or comfort women?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

What does that have to do with ianfu or comfort women

I thought the article was about sex slaves?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

what does that have to do with ianfu or comfort women?

Gee, I don't know, if you would have bothered to click on the link I provided, you would have landed on a page titled:

Women made to be Comfort Women - Philippines

And as it is from the AWF, I am sure you have no reason to question the accuracy.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.comFEB. 04, 2016 - 03:00PM JST

Gee, I don't know,

You have to distinguish rape victims from ianfu / comfort women. Do you think the Philippine women collected money for sex? If you think yes, then they were ianfu rather than rape victims. If you think otherwise, they were not ianfu.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Whether or not they collected money is not the barometer on whether or not they were sex slaves. The determining factor is whether or not they were there voluntarily, and whether or not they were free to leave at their own discretion.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

StrangerlandFEB. 04, 2016 - 03:48PM JST

I am talking about the difference between rape victims and ianfu(comfort women, prostitutes).

During WW2, US forces confiscated Japanese Army regulations on the comfort stations, and translated them, You can read their translation here on page 191 "Amenities in the Japanese Armed Forces".

http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_5.pdf

The pdf file is paged backwards, so the report starts from page 191 back to page 164. The translation of the regulations begins from page 187 under the title "9. Brothels".

It details, profit and cost sharing conditions between ianfu and comfort stations / trading hours of comfort stations / hygiene and medical examination of ianfu/ regulation on the customers / the fees and so on.

What I recommend you to read is the list of all the comfort stations in Manila on page 167 under the title "Appendix B, Police Report on Manila Brothels".

After reading the documents, you would not confuse rape victims with ianfu.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

I am talking about the difference between rape victims and ianfu(comfort women, prostitutes).

Yes, and the difference is determined by whether or not they were there voluntarily, and whether or not they were free to leave at their own discretion.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Lack of evidence is never considered as evidence of a specific event.

Would you agree though that Japanese war crimes deniers will use the lack of evidence to support their assertion that no forced sex slavery took place?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Simon FostonFEB. 04, 2016 - 05:12PM JST

Would you agree though that Japanese war crimes deniers will use the lack of evidence to support their assertion that no forced sex slavery took place?

Read the news report

Tokyo has offered repeated apologies over the issue, and says that while there was military involvement in the establishment of “comfort stations” there is no evidence its officials were involved in the abduction of women for the purpose.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

You have to distinguish rape victims from comfort women.

And how about sex slaves? They were raped were they not?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

And how about sex slaves? They were raped were they not?

That sounds pretty accurate

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Read the news report

Sorry, that answers my question how, exactly? Can you not manage a simple yes or no?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Simon FostonFeb. 04, 2016 - 10:05PM JST

Would you agree though that Japanese war crimes deniers will use the lack of evidence to support their assertion that no forced sex slavery took place?

It is tautology just like "unicorn deniers use the lack of evidence to deny unicorns."

It seems you recognize the lack of evidence, but you refuse to admit the lack of evidence. You seem to be afraid of "Japanese war crime deniers" because you seem to think the "war crimes" lack evidence. So, you just stonewall the discussion of evidence.

Who exactly are the "Japanese war crime deniers" if they exist? I reminded you of the position of the Japanese government in the news report. You do not need to assume that "Japanese war crime deniers" might deny so and so, when no one has actually denied. Much more, you do not need to criticize all the Japanese for what they might deny in your imagination.

Meanwhile, somewhere in the world, inocent people may be denying their crime citing the lack of evidence, and you call them deniers.

If you want to establish facts, you need to discuss the evidence. Honesty pays in the long run.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@Triring LOL all you want about this issue. It is a very despicable act with mounting evidence of IJA controlling and running the brothels with sex slaves. There are records of written state documentation sanctioning such policy during WW2. There are also testimony from the survivors in the last 70 years. Not only Korean and Chinese women were victims, some western women were raped and held as sex slaves as well. Enough said, there is no point to even discussas there are always some sc**bags laughing at serious issue like this. If there were no evidence as you said, then why Abe as the head of state apologized on this issue?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

No matter for how long yes and no game must go on or goes on, there is one thing for sure. The buck stops with our commonalty shared humanity. In order live and let live we need to say just sorry as long as the victims feels comforted and satisfied. It is because sometimes or when it comes down to some kind of human sufferings (tragedy), apology cannot be a charm. To heal that pain may need more than just a one or two or even 100 times apology.

If you think that I am mad then please do ask the well-known Japanese writer Haruka Murakami. Thank you

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It is tautology just...

Whatever. If you can't just answer a simple question with yes or no I really can't be bothered with you.

Who exactly are the "Japanese war crime deniers" if they exist?

Are you claiming that there are no such people? Yes or no?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Simon FostonFEB. 05, 2016 - 08:50AM JST

Yes or no?

Your little trick will not work here. Your question is like,

"Have you stopped beating your child?"

You cannot answer that question yes or no, because the presumption of the question is that you used to beat your child.

Now, look at your little question.

Would you agree though that Japanese war crimes deniers will use the lack of evidence to support their assertion that no forced sex slavery took place?

The presumption of your question is that there are "Japanese war crime deniers", which is a vaguely defined term which could include anyone because any sensible person would "deny" false accusation. However, the term "Japanese war crime deniers" implies people who deny facts. Are there "crime deniers" in the US and do you support the deniers? You cannot answer the question without defining the word "crime deniers".

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Triring

My point wasn't that destroyed documents proved guilt for the comfort women issue - although given the trail of discussion beforehand and my distinct lack of clarity - I can understand how you might have interpreted that as my point.

My point was more about war crimes in general. Destroying evidence does indicate strongly that there is something that person or group wanted hidden due to the legal or moral consequences - be it abuse of POWs, massacres of civilians etc.

For me the comfort women issue during the occupation of Korea is "highly politicized rendering an unbiased historical appraisal challenging". Murky claim and counterclaim from political groups with vested interests. Hundreds of thousands of victims or none.

All too often individuals with no training in historical analysis take soundbites from historians, out of context, and proclaim them as facts or twist "evidence" to fit an argument. People use anecdotes as proof of the bigger picture or citing examples that may actually be exceptions to the rule. So and so saw some women one day volunteering to be prostitutes therefore no women were coerced - or vice versa.

I don't have sufficient knowledge to get involved in the Korean comfort women debate.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

LeTizz

Thank you for clarifying.

As I posted in my response, there were bigger fish to fry ex. treatment of POW then some prostitutes.If my memory serves me correct, there were around 5000 POW camps through out the region and vast amount of update reports and so on.

Also various documents of unit 731 was still intact showing how much IJA was in hast so your point of destroyed documents may relate to the prostitutes are unfound.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I feel bad for President Park.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Your little trick wil...

Waffle and obfuscation. Straight answers or don't bother. And don't imply that I was ever criticising "all the Japanese" because I have never done it or intended to do it. If you can misinterpret and misinterpret other peoples' views like that you can do the same with anything else, so I have no interest in further discussion with you.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Well said, Simon. Same goes for me. I'm critical of aspects of Japan, but I'm not anti-Japan or anti-Japanese. Therefore, it's in Japan's interest to drop their apology-denial cycle, and settle their historical record once and for all

2 ( +4 / -2 )

choiwaruoyaji: No wrong, I stated an for example. Which you ask for,you did not ask for a list. I did not deny Comfort women, I deny sex slaves. You are very emotional with your statements with no scene of the Asia Society pre or post war. A world dominated by Buddhism. Where having sex is not a demonise practice outside of marriage like the Christian West. You have your point of view, not a over all point of view. which deem you comments bias. Japan commit atrocious. There is no doulting that is a fact. These Korean Women claiming to be sex slave were not old enough to claim they were comfort women. Unlike the Christian west were Pedophile-a is rife and excited ( Christian Priests and Pastors) is a part of Western society so the west assume what happen in the west society happening in others. Note mate wrong again. Pedophile-a was non-excited in Asian society. In Asian pre and post war it was common for girls to be marriage of the age of 13, 14. This is not deem anti-social unlike the Christian West. You are a person coming a from a western society and that explains your one sided view of the Asian society. Christianity is welcome here in Asia just like Islam is welcome in the Christian West.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I just want to see more attacks from China & South Korea in tensioned diplomatic arena over the coming years. That is justifiable when bringing up other issues!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Unlike the Christian west were Pedophile-a is rife and excited ( Christian Priests and Pastors) is a part of Western society so the west assume what happen in the west society happening in others. Note mate wrong again. Pedophile-a was non-excited in Asian society. In Asian pre and post war it was common for girls to be marriage of the age of 13, 14. This is not deem anti-social unlike the Christian West. You are a person coming a from a western society and that explains your one sided view of the Asian society. Christianity is welcome here in Asia just like Islam is welcome in the Christian West.

Actually marrying young is a historically common practice in all cultures. Frankly, it was a necessity given high infant mortality rates and low life expectancy. Pedophilia was and is common in Asia. Just look in any convenience store. But at any rate, I can hardly see how pedophilia has to do with comfort women or IJA sex slaves.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Park Yuha stated that women deceived into becoming comfort women were not allowed to leave once recruited. The Japanese military prevent women from leaving.

Based on Korean comfort women’s testimony, Park believes that recruitment was largely based on deception rather than coercion, but she believes the consequences for all these women were horrific; none were free to leave once recruited and all were subject to military discipline. The comfort stations were closely monitored by the Japanese military and the comfort women “had no freedom of movement, no freedom to get out of the business and no freedom even to defend their lives.”

<http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/07/25/commentary/rightists-distort-author-park-yu-views-comfort-women/#.VrQ9jrJ97IV

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Hansaram: It good to see someone on this topic has done research. if you read more you will find that those deceived were deceived by there family. The contracts sign by the comfort women was for the period of the war. Once The Japanese were turn back in the Pacific conflict by the Australia military (Papua ). The Japanese soldier were not allowed leave. In early 1944 Most of the comfort women were release form there contracts by the brothel owners ( A business decision )Only the best of the comfort women were retained for officers of the Japan Military.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@John-San: No, they are not deceived by their family but rather the recruiter. Also, don't make it sound like Japan military are not responsible or totally innocent. Japan military don't allow those women who were deceived into becoming comfort women to leave comfort women station.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Hansaram: I am not Japanese. My father fought against the Japanese and Koreans. My spouse in Japan. Are you reading form the English version ? I have research the South Korean edition with my Partner translation. Yes,The Japanese Military are guilty of creating Comfort Women stations but it was the Station managers ( some Japanese national but most were Korean national ) that did the recruiting in Korea. Not the Japan Military. All the money,all the stations and equipment was supplied by Japanese Military. Yes, The Japanese soldier did rape and pillage all throughout Asia. Most army are guilty of these action. Australian and Americans soldier have admitted doing such things during the Vietnam conflict. It not new to war either were comfort women.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

John-san, there are already about 386 cans worms opened. No need to open another one.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@John-San. Rape, murder and pillage are facts of war. What is abnormal is a state sponsored system of sexual slavery. Such a thing is without precedent in modern times, and Japan alone must take responsibility for it

0 ( +3 / -3 )

What is even more abnormal is that after 70 years, Japan still deny their crime or war responsibilities.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

PM Abe tries to exploit the opportunity to deny and whitewash the entire ugly history of comfort women and WW2 crimes when US is in desperate need for Japan's support to counter China growing influence in AP. Not that long ago Senator Honda, Hillary Clinton and other senators were very vocal against Japan's denial on comfort women and WW2 war crimes issues. All this talk about no evidence this no evidence that from those history ignorant idiots are absolutely nonsense. These issues are well documented all over the world history books.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What is even more abnormal is that after 70 years, Japan still deny their crime or war responsibilities.

As you hear this issue,you would think what is the number of "200,000".It is Asahi Shimbun,which is the newspaper company in Japan,that said this number at first in1991.To be exact, he linked Comfort Women with "(Joshi)TeiShintai". Yes,from that time,this issue of Comfort Women has started.And he had said this number for more than 20 years. But he admitted that his perjury was fabrication in August 2014.He admitted in Japanese Edition.But he hasn't have the article for correction in English edition!

Please think follows. ●In the WWⅡ, there were TeiShintai,who worked in factories etc.They were 200,000 women,which consisted of Japanese in the Japanese islands.In the Korean Peninsula,Japan had such organization,which consisted of 2-4 thousand Korean women.They went to the factories in the Japanese islands. ●Apart from TeiShintai,there were Comfort Women,10-20 thousand people,which consisted of Japanese,Korean etc.Mostly Japanese. ●US Army researched and concluded that "Comfort Women were well paid prostitutes".

To many people in Japan,it was clear that Comfort Women were prostitutes,because most of Comfort Women were Japanese.And the old people,containing Korean, have known that.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Liar !

0 ( +1 / -1 )

To many people in Japan,it was clear that Comfort Women were prostitutes,because most of Comfort Women were Japanese.And the old people,containing Korean, have known that.

It is clear because that is the government propaganda that you have been fed. Accept the fact that the IJA destroyed incriminating evidence, and that the testimonies of mulinational survivors is evidence enough

1 ( +2 / -1 )

In a court of law testimonies alone are never good enough without supporting evidence especially when there are evidence that goes against those testimonies and people are held responsible for perjury.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

It beggars belief to me that they continue to press this position. It's absolutely beggars belief. They are splitting hairs for the sake of what purpose? And it runs completely counter to the recent moves of goodwill on the issue towards Korea as well - so badly in fact that it completely taints and invalidates apologies they have made. It's disgraceful really.

Why is it so hard, Japan? Why can you not simply face history squarely in the face and ACCEPT what your forbears did in the 30's and 40's? What is this desire to attempt to sanitise the past, to dodge the facts, to fail to acknowledge what the rest of the world knows?

I've said this before, but I find people are generally pretty good at forgiveness. They won't forget of course, but they will, in time forgive if you are honest and repentant. I believe this is true of this issue also, but Japan simply does not have the grace and the good sense to stop arguing the toss and accept what must be accepted.

It's a very, very unbecoming position and a poor reflection on the national disposition in my humble opinion.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You can't face something that didn't happen and goes against our GOOD conscience to lie to develop a relationship since that kind of relationship is not going to last.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

US Army researched and concluded that "Comfort Women were well paid prostitutes".

So you complain about "victor's justice" in the Tokyo War Crimes Trials but you're happy to accept US Army conclusions when it suits you? It seems to me that after WW2 some Japanese people were wrongly punished and some guilty were not punished enough, or at all, whenever it suited the Americans.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Simon Foston FEB. 06, 2016 - 12:25PM JST So you complain about "victor's justice" in the Tokyo War Crimes Trials but you're happy to accept US Army conclusions when it suits you? It seems to me that after WW2 some Japanese people were wrongly punished and some guilty were not punished enough, or at all, whenever it suited the Americans.

Once it was decided to spare the Emperor to preserve social and political stability in post-war Japan, the indictment of his subordinates became questionable. The ambiguity of the charges against the Class A war criminals has allowed them to be regarded as scapegoats and has contributed to the inability of Japan to come to terms with its past.

The US officer in charge of selecting the political war criminals to be tried, Elliot Thorpe, admitted that "they made up the rules after the game was over". Willoughby, chief of intelligence to MacArthur, later described the Tokyo trials as "the worst hypocrisy in recorded history". This certainly does not excuse the atrocities that Imperial Japan committed in China, Korea and Southeast Asia. Those hanged as Class A war criminals may well have richly deserved execution. Only a few as defined as Class A were ever prosecuted. But not for "crimes against peace" as then hastily defined.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The very same US report stated that women are deceived into becoming prostitute.

TALKING POINT: “The 1944 U.S. military report says that ‘comfort women’ are just prostitutes!”

FACT: They are taking a sentence out of context. The same document clearly states that most women were deceived with the promise of a good job and forced to perform sexual acts on Japanese soldiers under debt bondage.

http://fendnow.org/2015/03/debunking-the-japanese-comfort-women-denier-talking-points/

This link here address and refute Japanese denial.

Retraction from Seiji Yoshida statement make no difference towards comfort women issues and Japan violation of human rights.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Hansaram FEB. 06, 2016 - 12:52PM JST The very same US report stated that women are deceived into becoming prostitute.

Your link to the website is weak as you can get. Where is your facts? Let us know the links that they are factual. In 1992, Korean Prof. Ahn Byeong-jik of Seoul University talks about Japanese comfort station system. An investigation conducted in South Korea by Professor on 40 survivors resulted in all testimonies not being credible. He also concluded that half of comfort station owners were Korean. The fact that half of comfort stations were run by Koreans maybe surprising to you. The brutality of some segments of the Imperial Japanese military is well known and have been tried at the Tokyo trials. Problem is that surviving Korean comfort women tells different version each time they recount their experiences.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The link base it on US reports. And did you even read everything in the link? The link already address what Ahn Byong Jik said. You are just using another typical unoriginal argument used by Japanese right winger which my ink already addressed in advance before you even mention it here.

TALKING POINT: “Some Korean scholars such as Ahn Byong Jik and Park Yuha question the allegation that Korean women were forcibly taken by the Japanese military!”

FACT: There are some disagreements in terms of how much blame should be assigned to different parties, including the Japanese military, Korean brokers who did the actual recruitment, etc., but neither Ahn or Park deny that Japan bears responsibility for the trafficking and exploitation of women under the “comfort women” system even if the military did not directly kidnap Korean women

http://fendnow.org/2015/03/debunking-the-japanese-comfort-women-denier-talking-points/

Park Yuha in her research stated that comfort women who were deceived were not allowed to leave the comfort women station by the Japanese military.

Based on Korean comfort women’s testimony, Park believes that recruitment was largely based on deception rather than coercion, but she believes the consequences for all these women were horrific; none were free to leave once recruited and all were subject to military discipline.The comfort stations were closely monitored by the Japanese military and the comfort women “had no freedom of movement, no freedom to get out of the business and no freedom even to defend their lives.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/07/25/commentary/rightists-distort-author-park-yu-views-comfort-women/#.VrV1Zfl97IU

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The link base it on US reports. And did you even read everything in the link? The link already address what Ahn Byong Jik said. You are just using another typical unoriginal argument used by Japanese right winger which my ink already addressed in advance before you even mention it here.

TALKING POINT: “Some Korean scholars such as Ahn Byong Jik and Park Yuha question the allegation that Korean women were forcibly taken by the Japanese military!”

FACT: There are some disagreements in terms of how much blame should be assigned to different parties, including the Japanese military, Korean brokers who did the actual recruitment, etc., but neither Ahn or Park deny that Japan bears responsibility for the trafficking and exploitation of women under the “comfort women” system even if the military did not directly kidnap Korean women

http://fendnow.org/2015/03/debunking-the-japanese-comfort-women-denier-talking-points/

Park Yuha in her research stated that comfort women who were deceived were not allowed to leave the comfort women station by the Japanese military.

Based on Korean comfort women’s testimony, Park believes that recruitment was largely based on deception rather than coercion, but she believes the consequences for all these women were horrific; none were free to leave once recruited and all were subject to military discipline.The comfort stations were closely monitored by the Japanese military and the comfort women “had no freedom of movement, no freedom to get out of the business and no freedom even to defend their lives.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/07/25/commentary/rightists-distort-author-park-yu-views-comfort-women/#.VrV1Zfl97IU

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@ Hansaram

The government made it clear. The government apologized for the prostitution, while denying alleged abduction.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Still doesn't change the fact the Japanese military does not allow comfort women from leaving comfort station.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

HansaramFEB. 06, 2016 - 01:48PM JST Still doesn't change the fact the Japanese military does not allow comfort women from leaving comfort station.

If this is so important to you, why this was not a issue for South Korea for almost three decades from 1966 to early 1990's when most of these survivors were still alive? If the issue of comfort women was so important to them, don't you think the South Korean government would've acted much sooner and brought attention to Japan? Point is, South Korean government couldn't care less about these women for a long time, as long as Japanese government paid their millions. The fault also lies on the South Korean government, and Park should acknowledge this.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

the Japanese military does not allow comfort women from leaving comfort station.

during the working hours?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Because no matter bad or ignorant the government is, it still doesn't diminish nor lessen Japan responsibilities.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

HansaramFEB. 06, 2016 - 02:06PM JST Because no matter bad or ignorant the government is, it still doesn't diminish nor lessen Japan responsibilities.

Instead of one liner response, why don't you explain why? Let me ask you why weren't the comfort women issue was not raised by South Korea for individuals who suffered under Japanese colonization as it negotiated a treaty with Japan in 1965? Why did South Koreans started attacking even the good will of former PM Murayama who spent working for the surviving comfort women as a head of AWF?

After the 1965 settlement, majority of these conscripted workers never received anything from their own government. Why? Even if the 1965 settlement included the comfort women, what makes you think that Korean government would've disbursed the compensation money to these victims? Their government didn't care about their own people. The South Korean government needs to be forthright about the fact it spent the $800 million in compensation money and take some responsibility itself, instead of blustering that Japan “hasn’t apologized nor compensated enough.” If the South Korean government had done it’s part back in the 1960′s and disbursed compensation efficiently to those Koreans conscripted by the Japanese during WWII, much of the problems wouldn’t exist today. Why did Korean government hid and deny until 2005 (40 years later) to release a secret file to their own citizens of the $800 millions that Japan paid to Korea in 1965? Rather than deny, Park should say that Korean government used up the money designed for individual compensation. The problem is, there has been very little readiness to accept Japan’s efforts to promote reconciliation, and as a result, those efforts have tended to founder. I don't think you know the issues at all.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Duh...it because south Korean government does not create those comfort women system. It's the Japanese who create it. There is no comfort women in Korea and SEA until Japan colonize it. What you said is totally irrelevant here. The problem is here is more on Japan denying their war crime.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Hansaram

Did you read the question? Why was not a issue for South Korea for almost three decades from 1966 to early 1990's when most of these survivors were still alive?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Once it was decided to spare the Emperor to preserve social and political stability in post-war Japan, the indictment of his subordinates became questionable. The ambiguity of the charges against the Class A war criminals has allowed them to be regarded as scapegoats and has contributed to the inability of Japan to come to terms with its past.

Exactly. I have long advocated this

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Did you read the topic of this article? It's about Japan denying their war crime, not south Korean neglecting it's people back then.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Christopher Glen FEB. 06, 2016 - 02:24PM JST Exactly. I have long advocated this

Your wrong. If you look at the history after end of WWII, Japan spent basically from 1950's through mid 1990s under the same conservative LDP government. There was no change in thought or attitude. At best, the Japanese government was able to buy off the Chinese and Koreans, providing loans and grants while those governments kept nationalistic sentiments tamped down. When the LDP hold was toppled in the 1990s, the coalition government was so weak that even though it began reconciliation with a formal apology, it couldn't make much progress before the LDP came back to power one year later. Japan needed a strong center-left party to lead the way. Unfortunately, Muruyama and the Japanese Social Democrats were simply too weak. Japan's delay in the process has only made it more difficult for any real reconciliation. Had they done it back when Japan was at its peak, Chinese and Korean nationalism were somewhat under control and Japan had bought some goodwill through economic aid, they might have gotten their message across more smoothly. Instead, now you have Japan in a weak position, China and Korea ascendant, and both those nations experiencing near-rabid nationalistic sentiments, it'll be much harder for all involved to come together.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

No evidence shows Korea government are responsible for comfort woman station in Korea or the one in SEA such as the one in Philippines.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hansaram FEB. 06, 2016 - 02:33PM JST No evidence shows Korea government are responsible for comfort woman station in Korea

Who said anything about Korean government?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

You did. You mention about Korea government here in your post FEB. 06, 2016 - 02:15PM JST . You are totally missing the point of this article aren't you? The point of this article and why so many criticize Japan is because Japan refuse to acknowledge their crime or war responsibilities. Nobody care that south Korea is late in addressing this issues but as the saying goes 'Better late than never' so it makes no difference if Korea is late in addressing this issues. You are getting off topic in case you haven't notice.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Nobody care that south Korea is late in addressing this issues but as the saying goes 'Better late than never' so it makes no difference if Korea is late in addressing this issues. You are getting off topic in case you haven't notice.

Agreed. The topic of discussion is Japan's revisionism re. the sex slaves

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Hansaram

Do you have any opinions?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

http://www.awf.or.jp/e3/oralhistory-00.html

(comfort women Digital Museum; Testimony of the Victims)

(Testimony I) Kimiko Kaneda ... Her father was a Korean and her mother was a Japanese ... When she was 16 years old, she went to Seoul for better employment on the recommendation of her friend who worked as housemaid for a Japanese family. Led by a Japanese, she was put on a train to go from Seoul to Tianjin, China, then from Tianjin via Peitan to Zaoqiang. There she was forced to be a comfort woman for the Japanese military. ...

In China: At 4 o'clock in the morning we took ride on a train. It stopped for two hours at Shanhaiguan at which point myself and Yoshiko attempted to escape. But the exits were blocked by military police. ... We were much too scared to escape from the train. ... When we got off the train at Tianjin, fully armed soldiers were waiting for us ... I was sent with other girls to Zaoqiang ...

Forced to become a comfort woman: How did I feel? I felt as if we were taken here to be killed. I could not but weep. No one talked. All were weeping. That night we slept there and in the morning we were put in those rooms. Soldiers came to my room, but I resisted with all my might. ... He waved a knife at me and threatened to kill me if I didn't do what he said. But I didn't care if I died, and in the end he stabbed me. Here( She pointed her chest). He was taken away by the military police ... I was treated in the infirmary for twenty days. ... I was sent back to my room. A soldier who had just returned from the fighting came in. Thanks to the treatment my wound was much improved, but I had a plaster on my chest.

Despite that the soldier attacked me, and when I wouldn't do what he said, he seized my wrists and threw me out of the room. My wrists were broken, and they are still very weak. Here was broken.... There's no bone here. I was kicked by a soldier here. It took the skin right off... you could see the bone.

In the comfort station in Shijiazhuang: When the soldiers came back from the battlefields, as many as 20 men would come to my room from early morning. ...

... They rounded up little girls still in school. ... The soldiers made Chinese laborers lay straw in the trenches and the girls were put in there. There was no bedding... When someone died the girls got scared and began to cry. Then everyone in the trenches was poisoned and they closed up the trench. They dug another trench next to it.

(Testimony II) Maria Rosa Henson (Philippines) ... In April 1943 she was arrested by Japanese at a check point in the suburbs of Angeles and taken to the garrison. There she was forced to be a comfort woman. She spent the next nine months of her life in this way. ... At times, we would be brought to some quarters or houses of the Japanese. I remembered the Pamintuan Historical House. We were brought there several times. You cannot say no as they will definitely kill you. During the mornings, you have a guard. You are free to roam around the garrison, but you cannot get out. ...

(Testimony III) A Taiwanese victim: ... I was helping my father's business at home. One day, the Japanese police called and told me to come because they had a job for me. They said that I would be preparing meals and mending torn clothes for the soldiers. ... So I went to work. I saw many Japanese soldiers. ... We got up in the morning, washed our faces and cooked breakfast to feed the soldiers. We washed their clothes and mended torn clothes. Then, at night, we were called and confined to a room. ...it was a terrible job. I was only weeping. ... I wished to flee away, but I did not know the way. Soldiers were standing at the gates. If you fled, you would be shot. ...

5 ( +6 / -1 )

This is about now, not old times. Hope it will show in the history books.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

turbotsatFEB. 06, 2016 - 02:57PM JST

Another turbostat, Copy and paste? Why don't you put into your own words? Hard vocabulary?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

"Forced to become a comfort woman: How did I feel? I felt as if we were taken here to be killed. I could not but weep. No one talked. All were weeping. That night we slept there and in the morning we were put in those rooms. Soldiers came to my room, but I resisted with all my might. ... He waved a knife at me and threatened to kill me if I didn't do what he said. But I didn't care if I died, and in the end he stabbed me."

Hey, the Japanese soldier needed to satisfy his hentai cravings! And she wouldn't cooperate!

The comfort women's testimonies ought to be required reading for all Japanese men in high school and they should be taught that this was part of the reason why the cities of Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were pretty much obliterated.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@Serrano

If this was so important to you, why this was not a issue for South Korea for almost three decades from 1966 to early 1990's when most of these survivors were still alive?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Nice, sfjp330. You want evidence, and then when it's provided, you can't answer it, so: "Why don't you put into your own words? Hard vocabulary?"

And, by the way, your post above at Feb. 06, 2016 - 12:44PM JST contains unattributed text from a Straits Times article. The article itself, not any comments section text. So: "Why don't you put into your own words? Hard vocabulary?"

http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/japan-tells-u-n-it-has-found-no-evidence-of-forced-wwii-sex-slavery#comment_2140028

sfjp330 Feb. 06, 2016 - 12:44PM JST: ... Those hanged as Class A war criminals may well have richly deserved execution. Only a few as defined as Class A were ever prosecuted. But not for "crimes against peace" as then hastily defined.

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/yasukuni-visits-revisited

Yasukuni visits, revisited - Published Jan 20, 2014, 11:19 am SGT - This story was first published in The Straits Times on Jan 18, 2014 - by Bilahari Kausikan

.... This certainly does not excuse the atrocities that Imperial Japan committed in China, Korea and South-east Asia. Those hanged as Class A war criminals may well have richly deserved execution. But not for "crimes against peace" as then hastily defined. ....

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@turbostat

What is your question?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

"If this was so important to you, why this was not a issue for South Korea for almost three decades from 1966 to early 1990's when most of these survivors were still alive?"

It's been an issue in Korea since the end of the war.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Serrano FEB. 06, 2016 - 03:22PM JST It's been an issue in Korea since the end of the war.

Why did Korean government hid and deny until 2005 (40 years later) to release a secret file to their own citizens of the $800 millions that Japan paid to Korea in 1965? Maybe if they release it earlier, maybe a less understanding problem?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

sfjp330: @turbostat What is your question?

Uno. "Why don't you put into your own words? Hard vocabulary?"

Dos. What can you say about what Japan told the U.N. (check the headline if you forgot) vs. these three statements from sex slaves as pasted in my post above:

Dos-a. a half-Korean-half-Japanese woman FROM JAPAN, recruited under false pretenses for what she was told would be household work, only to be forced into sex slavery,

Dos-b. a Philipino woman arrested at a checkpoint and forced into sex slavery, and

Dos-c. a Taiwanese woman abducted from her job at a Japanese agency and forced into sex slavery at a military base.

Tres. Not a question, but in re your question repeated to (at least) Hansaram and Serrano, "sfjp330: If this was so important to you, why this was not a issue for South Korea for almost three decades from 1966 to early 1990's when most of these survivors were still alive?", why do think the South Korean government would have made an issue of it after the Japanese government paid them off? Did the Japanese government pay the women? If my dog eats your dog and I pay a fine to the Japanese government, and they tell you to sod off when you say "where's my part?", would you feel things to have been settled?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

turbotsatFEB. 06, 2016 - 03:30PM JST if my dog eats your dog and I pay a fine to the Japanese government, and they tell you to sod off when you say "where's my part?", would you feel things to have been settled?

In the 1965 treaty, Korean government did not claim comfort women in 1965. now it's different?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Apparently it is different.

I guess you have no answer for my other points. And the answer you did have for item 3 is pretty weak.

But kudos for using your own words this time!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

turbotsatFEB. 06, 2016 - 03:38PM JST Apparently it is different.

Why don't you explain to us the differences?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The testimonies of surviving comfort women are so dubious. This is one of recent examples.

"Japan made Korea a sea of flame, thus should apologize to us"

Sea of Flame? Korean Penninsula during WW2?

She could be a victim of Korean comfort stations in Korea during Korean War. and as matters of facts, there seems to be many of those victims from Korean-version comfort stations mingled together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RUoRabQ47o&feature=youtu.be

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

The US officer in charge of selecting the political war criminals to be tried, Elliot Thorpe, admitted that "they made up the rules after the game was over". Willoughby, chief of intelligence to MacArthur, later described the Tokyo trials as "the worst hypocrisy in recorded history".

Quite so. And given this to be the case it seems unwise to rely too much on anything the Americans might have concluded about comfort women. I would expect them to do a bit of whitewashing for potential allies.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

turbotsat

And have any of those testimonies been verified by an independent party?

Basically as I had posted before testimonies doesn't carry much weight if they cannot be verified since there are various contradicting evidence against what they say and too many perjury to mount any weight.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

There is plenty of testimonial evidence. This whole Japanese line of if, but, if, but, please verify the records the IJA destroyed - doesn't wash here. Japan has the shame of the indignity it heaped upon hundreds of thousands of women upon its head. Those that live in the present don't have to pay for the sins of the past, by they have a duty to remember them

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Triring: "And have any of those testimonies been verified by an independent party?"

Are you honestly asking that question on a thread about Japan's internal investigation in regards to evidence it kidnapped and raped women and forced them into sexual slavery?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

When we discuss this issue,we should distinguish the degree of a dispute. 1.) A particular incident or testimony.2.) The Japanese military as a whole.3.) Human rights in the war.

●It is hard for us to deal on Level 1. Why do we knows whether true or false about a testimony which describes 70 years ago in a foreign country? But As you trace testimonies of a comfort woman,you sometimes notice that she's changing the testimonies. And if you have the historical knowledge,in some case,clearly, the testimonies describe experiences in the Korean War. ●I think it is possible for us to discuss on Level 2 or 3.In case of Level 2,we should discuss the survey report. As I have read the survey reports ,I reached to a conclusion. If the person has a certain level of knowledge about this issue ,he knows that Comfort Women's most part were Japanese. But in many cases ,one hides this fact.Why?I must feel the tail of a propaganda. ●Some people ,who pick up this issue loudly, deal on level 3. But they pick up only this issue.Why don't they pick up comfort woman in the Korean War? Why don't they pick up the behavior of Korean soldiers in the Vietnam War?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Japan made the 1965 payment to the dictatorship then in power in South Korea. Who kept it.

Thus the skepticism that this settled accounts with the sex slaves themselves.

You may like to review Markus L's post about where the evidence went:

Markus L Feb. 03, 2016 - 07:18PM JST: It's not surprising there is no evidence. I would urge people to read "Researching Japanese War Crimes: Introductory Essay. ...

Here is an except...

On August 16, Imperial Headquarters ordered Japanese military units to destroy all secret documents, many of which are believed to have contained evidence of war crimes. While it is standard practice for governments to destroy evidence in times of defeat, in the two weeks before the Allies arrived in Japan, various Japanese agencies—the military in particular— systematically destroyed sensitive documents to a degree perhaps unprecedented in history. Estimates of the impact of the destruction vary. Tanaka Hiromi, a professor at Japan’s National Defense Academy who has conducted extensive research into remaining Imperial Japanese Army and Navy documents in Japan and overseas, claims that less than 0.1 percent of the material ordered for destruction survived. Whether or not his estimate is entirely accurate, most historians agree that the vast majority of incriminating evidence was lost in the cover-up.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

As you trace testimonies of a comfort woman,you sometimes notice that she's changing the testimonies. And if you have the historical knowledge,in some case,clearly, the testimonies describe experiences in the Korean War.

Some women often changed them despite they started testifying in their early 60’s. Chong Dae Hyup does not allow for any critical questions on any possible contradictions. Those contradictions hardly got translated or published in English and thus not known in public, except the works like the one by Prof. Sarah Soh. Prof. An Byeong-jik judged harf of self –professed victims he had interviewed and their stories were not trustworthy What would you feel when you hear something like

" I was raped on the night people cereblated X'mas "

" When I was released, my country got split into two"

" I was abdcuted by Japnese soldiers wearing casual civilian clothes"

" Japan turned my contry into a sea of flame" etc.

If the person has a certain level of knowledge about this issue ,he knows that Comfort Women's most part were Japanese. But in many cases ,one hides this fact.Why?I must feel the tail of a propaganda. ●Some people ,who pick up this issue loudly, deal on level 3. But they pick up only this issue.Why don't they pick up comfort woman in the Korean War? Why don't they pick up the behavior of Korean soldiers in the Vietnam

Because those loud and frequent Japan bashers are

1) Simply ignorant and hate Japan and Japanese for whatever reasons

2) Driven by political agendas

3) Disgusting hypocrites

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Cherry-picking a few cases is like walking through Roppongi and saying, "Wow, all Japanese must be like this Nigerian guy trying to pull me into his bar."

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Cherry picking?

Look who's talking posting testimonies as if they were written stone when those testimonies had changed through time making it impossible to listen with a straight face.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Some people ,who pick up this issue loudly, deal on level 3. But they pick up only this issue.Why don't they pick up comfort woman in the Korean War? Why don't they pick up the behavior of Korean soldiers in the Vietnam War?

How do you know they don't? Perhaps they just don't bring them up in discussions about Japanese wartime conduct. As abhorrent as such behaviour is, it is irrelevant to this topic. Whatever happened in other wars involving soldiers of other countries, it does not excuse any crimes committed by the IJA.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The one who accuse also carries the burden of proof to convict those crimes. At the moment there are only unverified testimonies that has changed over time and various evidence that contradicts those testimonies.

Where is your proof?

You do know that in civil court you can be sued for Defamation without it.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@Triring: What a weak defense.

The one who accuse also carries the burden of proof to convict those crimes. At the moment there are only unverified testimonies that has changed over time and various evidence that contradicts those testimonies.

This is a website, not a court room. Same rules do not apply here. Based upon your flimsy argumentation, I am quite confident you have no legal background, either.

Where is your proof?

Back at you. Where is YOUR proof? Come on, it should be easy right?

You do know that in civil court you can be sued for Defamation without it.

You do know that you'd have to prove the statements are false, don't you? So again, back at you, prove your case, Matchlock!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Augh as I said the ones who are accusing carries the burden of proof and even if this not a court of law the same principles applies to maintain civility, something I haven't seen from Japan bashers trying to tag and label every known blight without any convincing evidence or refute any arguments that had been brought up contradicting those claims with again convincing evidence.

Basically you Japan bashers are chasing your own tail to no end.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The testimony provided from the three women is sufficient proof for an Internet forum.

Of course, if you start from a baseline of 'it's impossible they could be true', no proof is sufficient.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Testimonies that had changed over time? Without any verifications by an independent party? With various contradicting evidence refuting their claim?

Don't think it would hold in a court of law.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Augh as I said the ones who are accusing carries the burden of proof ...

That works out very conveniently for you, doesn't it, as there doesn't seem to be much evidence to refute the allegations with either...

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The proof is in the testimonies of the women to whom it happened.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Convenient??

Again look who's talking a person who accuses people without the evidence to support their claim. That is what is known as Defamation.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The testimonies are worthless as proven by Professor Ahn of Seoul University. It is up to the nations that allege that 200,000 women were kidnapped to show evidence to support it. From 1020 to 1945 the Policemen in Korea were Koreans. Shouldn't be hard to find reports and evidence.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Triring: Testimonies that had changed over time? Without any verifications by an independent party? With various contradicting evidence refuting their claim?

These testimonies? I thought the Japanese burned all evidence, what evidence remains in contradiction?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

As abhorrent as such behavior is, it is irrelevant to this topic.

Japan has done it’s part more than enough. If any of you Japan bashers still persist, from now on, you should look at this issue from the viewpoint of the history of Korean peninsula and the way women were treated. Nothing is irrelevant as far as Korean comfort women are concerned, especially in front of the facts that some self-professed victims seem actually the ones from days of Korean War.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jlfAqR8uBc

http://www.stripes.com/news/former-sex-workers-who-serviced-us-troops-get-day-in-court-1.319931

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Simon FostonFEB. 07, 2016 - 02:54PM JST

That works out very conveniently for you, doesn't it, as there doesn't seem to be much evidence to refute the allegations with either...

Convenient??

Again look who's talking a person who accuses people without the evidence to support their claim. That is what is known as defamation.

Where are the supporting evidence to support those testimonies that had change through time or an independent source verifying those testimonies or even a convincing argument to refute all the contradicting evidence that defy those testimonies could have happened. Basically a person accusing another without taking any responsibility in what they say are trolls on the internet.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

The testimonies are worthless as proven by Professor Ahn of Seoul University.

There is also this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070929125427/http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070418a5.html

It's quite interesting to read what Japanese soldiers themselves have to say.

It is up to the nations that allege that 200,000 women were kidnapped to show evidence to support it.

Do you think that's how it works in courts if you're tried on suspicion of committing a crime because they've got circumstantial evidence? Getting acquitted relies on a bit more than expecting prosecutors to come up with watertight direct evidence. Japan's accusers would shut up if evidence could be provided that showed Japanese forces weren't involved in kidnapping or coercion, but no one seems to be able to do that either.

From 1020 to 1945 the Policemen in Korea were Koreans.

It's somewhat disingenuous not to mention that for the last 35 of those years the Korean police were basically Japanese collaborators. The police in China, the Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaya and Burma weren't Korean, were they?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

turbotsatFEB. 06, 2016 - 02:57PM JST

http://www.awf.or.jp/e3/oralhistory-00.html

You have to distinguish rape victims from ianfu (comfort women).

Testimony II Maria Rosa Henson (Philippines)

In February 1942 she was first raped by Japanese soldiers. While she went to fetch firewood with her uncles and neighbors for her family, she was caught and raped by three Japanese, one of whom seemed to be an officer.. After two weeks she was again raped by the same Japanese officer, while fetching firewood.

She is a victim of some random rapes.

Testimony I Kimiko Kaneda (South Korea)

When she was 16 years old, she went to Seoul for better employment on the recommendation of her friend who worked as housemaid for a Japanese family. Led by a Japanese, she was put on a train to go from Seoul to Tianjin, China, then from Tianjin via Peitan to Zaoqiang. There she was forced to be a comfort woman for the Japanese military.

She went all the way to China out of her own will to do something. Something you know. Otherwise, why did she go to China where she could not speak the language.

Testimony III A Taiwanese victim

One day, the Japanese police called and told me to come because they had a job for me. They said that I would be preparing meals and mending torn clothes for the soldiers. I did not want to go, but the police said that all men and women must come because the country was at war then and that everybody must follow the General National Mobilization Law.

She may be deceived if her testimony is true, though I do not think the police was arranging jobs for widows back then. National mobilization Law was not administered by the police.

Why do not we look at what the Japanese government said, and if the comment contradicts the testimonies.

Tokyo has offered repeated apologies over the issue, and says that while there was military involvement in the establishment of “comfort stations” there is no evidence its officials were involved in the abduction of women for the purpose.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Speaking of contradictions, deniers can't seem to make up their minds either:

“There is no evidence that people called comfort women were taken away by violence or threat by the (Japanese) military,” Hashimoto said. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2012/08/23/news/no-evidence-sex-slaves-were-taken-by-military-hashimoto/#.Vrf4kFh97IU

Toru Hashimoto, co-leader of the Japan Restoration Party, said on May 13 that "comfort women" were necessary for Japanese soldiers during World War II, but then softened his tone, saying that they served soldiers "against their will." http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201305130131

4 ( +5 / -1 )

" It says private brokers were responsible in some cases, and in others, the women were common prostitutes. "

Well, that is probably true as far as it goes.But that does not mean that the sex slavery conditition did not exist for many individuals involved. It was the military who contracted these "private brokers" with their dubious behaviour, and it was the military who provided/denied housing/transportation for the victims, So to say that the Japanese military was not involved is playing with words. With the same "argument" you could also deny the sex slavery practised today by the Russian Mafia, I don´t understand why the J government keeps making these stupid, self-damaging comments.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Simon FostonFEB. 08, 2016 - 10:31AM JST

Do you think that's how it works in courts if you're tried on suspicion of committing a crime because they've got circumstantial evidence? Getting acquitted relies on a bit more than expecting prosecutors to come up with watertight direct evidence. Japan's accusers would shut up if evidence could be provided that showed Japanese forces weren't involved in kidnapping or coercion, but no one seems to be able to do that either.

You convinced me, more than enough, that you or your friends have no evidence and that your accusation is nothing but presumption. Your point is well taken.

Simon FostonFEB. 08, 2016 - 11:11AM JST

There is no evidence that people called comfort women were taken away by violence or threat

that they served soldiers against their will.

I do not necessarily see the contradiction. The distinction of the two was written in the international law at the time. https://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/whiteslavetraffic1910.html

International Convention for the Suppression of the "White Slave Traffic," May 4, 1910

FINAL PROTOCOL

D. The case of detention, against her will, of a woman or girl in a brothel could not, in spite of its gravity, be dealt with in the present Convention, seeing that it is governed exclusively by internal legislation.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

The testimonies of the survivors more than suffice. Women from multiple countries and language backgrounds hardly had a get together to fabricate their stories. The truth is in what they endured

0 ( +2 / -2 )

ZaphodFEB. 08, 2016 - 11:30AM JST

I don´t understand why the J government keeps making these stupid, self-damaging comments.

Truth. Japanese Government is just telling what it did and what it did not.

Honesty may look stupid and self-damaging to some.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

You convinced me, more than enough, that you or your friends have no evidence and that your accusation is nothing but presumption.

The same clearly applies to your, and I use this in the loosest possible sense of the word, "defence."

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Simon FostonFEB. 08, 2016 - 03:33PM JST

Thank you, again, for admitting you have no evidence and your accusation is nothing but presumption. Your point is well taken.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

No more bickering please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@CH3CH3

" Honesty may look stupid and self-damaging to some. "

But sophistry and word-games are not "honesty".

3 ( +4 / -1 )

ZaphodFEB. 08, 2016 - 03:54PM JST

But sophistry and word-games are not "honesty".

This is what you said.

ZaphodFEB. 08, 2016 - 11:30AM JST

But that does not mean that the sex slavery conditition did not exist for many individuals involved. It was the military who contracted these "private brokers" with their dubious behaviour, and it was the military who provided/denied housing/transportation for the victims, So to say that the Japanese military was not involved is playing with words.

This is what Japanese government said.

Tokyo has offered repeated apologies over the issue, and says that while there was military involvement in the establishment of “comfort stations” there is no evidence its officials were involved in the abduction of women for the purpose.

I do not see much difference in opinions.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Statement by the Chief Cabinet Secretary Yohei Kono on the result of the study on the issue of "comfort women"

August 4, 1993

The Government of Japan has been conducting a study on the issue of wartime "comfort women" since December 1991. I wish to announce the findings as a result of that study.

As a result of the study which indicates that comfort stations were operated in extensive areas for long periods, it is apparent that there existed a great number of comfort women. Comfort stations were operated in response to the request of the military authorities of the day. The then Japanese military was, directly or indirectly, involved in the establishment and management of the comfort stations and the transfer of comfort women. The recruitment of the comfort women was conducted mainly by private recruiters who acted in response to the request of the military. The Government study has revealed that in many cases they were recruited against their own will, through coaxing, coercion, etc., and that, at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments. They lived in misery at comfort stations under a coercive atmosphere.

As to the origin of those comfort women who were transferred to the war areas, excluding those from Japan, those from the Korean Peninsula accounted for a large part. The Korean Peninsula was under Japanese rule in those days, and their recruitment, transfer, control, etc., were conducted generally against their will, through coaxing, coercion, etc.

Undeniably, this was an act, with the involvement of the military authorities of the day, that severely injured the honor and dignity of many women. The Government of Japan would like to take this opportunity once again to extend its sincere apologies and remorse to all those, irrespective of place of origin, who suffered immeasurable pain and incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.

It is incumbent upon us, the Government of Japan, to continue to consider seriously, while listening to the views of learned circles, how best we can express this sentiment.

We shall face squarely the historical facts as described above instead of evading them, and take them to heart as lessons of history. We hereby reiterate our firm determination never to repeat the same mistake by forever engraving such issues in our memories through the study and teaching of history.

As actions have been brought to court in Japan and interests have been shown in this issue outside Japan, the Government of Japan shall continue to pay full attention to this matter, including private researched related thereto.

Source: http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/state9308.html

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@CH3CHo

" I do not see much difference in opinions "

Again, I said "But that does not mean that the sex slavery conditition did not exist for many individuals involved."

So what exactly are you arguing about? My point is that the semantic nitpicking games of the Japanese government are insincere and not helping them.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

ZaphodFEB. 08, 2016 - 05:56PM JST

I think you just read the headline. Yes, the headline says,

Japan tells U.N. it has found no evidence of forced WWII sex slavery

But that was not exactly what the Japanese Government said. You know that the head line is written by the editor and may not be accurate because he has to put everything in one line.

The government said, according to the body of the news text,

Tokyo has offered repeated apologies over the issue, and says that while there was military involvement in the establishment of “comfort stations” there is no evidence its officials were involved in the abduction of women for the purpose.

The editor summarized the statement into "Japan tells U.N. it has found no evidence of forced WWII sex slavery".

I do not think the Japanese Government is playing word games. Your criticism should be based on the original statement by the government, rather than the headline by the editor.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

I do not think the Japanese Government is playing word games. Your criticism should be based on the original statement by the government, rather than the headline by the editor.

It does it all the time re. WW2 atrocities. Apology, denial, apology, denial..........

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Truth. Japanese Government is just telling what it did and what it did not.

kind of like a fox guarding a henhouse, or letting Amari control the purse strings, or trusting Takada to do a real, accurate safety audit. The Japanese government has every motive to lie and not tell the truth.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Not one but two Professor of Korean History have came out. Both South Korean and One a women. Have both declare that the women that were subject to sexual slavery is post war christian Propaganda. Yet There are commentary on this subject that even with academic prove provide still will persist on believing this propaganda. It Just show how much underlying hated they have for Japan and Japanese. Some live here and persist with their recteric and their bias towards Japan even when Academic prove is provide not by one but two south Korean Professor of History. I realise that a lot people decide to live Japan when things were much better. Now that thing are better in their homeland and would like to go back but can not. They will have start from the bottom and too old to advance. This is where this hatred is festing from ?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

No John, that is not true. Park Yu-Ha, one of the professors you mentioned, argues that Koreans also recruited women and that some of the women were prostitutes, but in no way is she saying all comfort women were prostitutes. Have a look:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Yu-ha

And John, I have no hatred towards Japanese people. What I do not like is the far right and their denialism.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

As do I

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China, Korea , south east asia country never offend Japan. In fact their countrynationalism look at Japan as big brother for natuon of teaching and strong partner to depend with. But japan mastermind and conquer/rape them from behind while still struggle agst colonolism and warlordism. Ita not about past is past. Its 100% betrayal and backstab. Japan has always ambitious to conquer China and lesser neighbour country for raw materials and richness. Lucky Korea and chinese dynasty stop them since. If only Japan show leadership and centre of asian modernisation, Japan will be good guys. But noooo... they decide to do horrible things to project their power. Past crime cant be forgive especially backstabbing.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Japanese government keeps sticking to a technicality, complelely oblivious to how ridiculous and offensive that looks to people who are discussing the nature of the offense. I really don´t understand how they can be so diplomatically inept.

Yes, technically the Japanese military apparently did not go out there there and personally round up young girls. However, subcontracting something does not separate them from the fact.

What the heck can possibly be so difficult about admitting wrongdoing and apologizing? Especially in Japan, where profound, dramatic apologies are practically a way of life? I don´t get it.-

4 ( +4 / -0 )

We can get the summary of English edition of "Comfort Women of the Empire" by Park Yuha. https://www.facebook.com/parkyuha2/posts/582998288469797

There is no freedom of speech in Korea now. Some people were arrested, because they criticized President Park. I hear the news that we get the whole book of the above in Korean edition by free from January 31. But it is the modified version in 34 places.I don't know whether they are deleted or to asterisk.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

There is little freedom of speech in Japan now. What is your point?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

WilliBFEB. 09, 2016 - 03:21PM JST

who are discussing the nature of the offense.

What was the "nature of the offense"?

I see it was prostitution of the Koreans by the Koreans for the Japanese.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Ch3Cho:

" What was the "nature of the offense"? I see it was prostitution of the Koreans by the Koreans for the Japanese. "

The nature of the offense is sex slavery. And yes, the Japanese military is involved as contractor, so the technicality that the J-government and you try to hide behind is dishonest.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The nature of the offense is sex slavery.

Not just in Korea either.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

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