politics

Abe wants SDF to be allowed to rescue Japanese citizens in danger

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By Linda Sieg and Nobuhiro Kubo

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142 Comments
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I'm just curious. Not going to go to deep with my comments on this. It's Japan and Japan will do what it sees fit. I can't vote on it so I'm not going to sweat it.

Just curious though. I grew up watching Japanese in movies as Samurai and Ninja. I know Japan still practices judo, kendo and karate. What happened? Why do you have no confidence in your nation developing a special ops force for counter-terrorism?

Japan used to be hardcore. I don't agree with the purpose of military actions in the past BUT those people who study Tsun Su Bing Fa understand that Japanese can fight!! Japan's ability to wage tactical warfare is excellent.

We look back at the past and we don't like to see Pearl Harbor BUT......BUT....from a military standpoint it was an amazing tactical strike. Ask any military historian and they would admit that was not a cowardly act but an excellent move by the Japanese Navy. Ballsy.

With such an excellent fighting history why would anybody not have confidence in Japan's ability to perform rescue ops or conduct covert ops behind enemy lines?

Come on guys. You know you want to HALO drop into a hot zone do that REAL Metal Gear Solid. Life imitates art. Where's the real Snake Eyes among you?

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Abe should remember what the outcome of the US troops being sent to Iraq by President Bush. The result wasn't good. Also the terrorists will definitely shift the attention on Japan once Japan sends the troops.

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Japan like any other country on the planet should have the option to protect its citizens. There is no reason to continue the postwar demeaning constitution for Japan has shown over the following decades that it is fully worthy of being an equal world power to all, with equal powers to protect and further its interests. China and other nations try to demean Japan and keep trying to bring up ghosts of the distant past, but those times are all long gone, and Japan is a fully worth and respectable nation today and its citizens deserve protection and support when needed.

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I think Ild rather have the SAS or SEALS on the way if I was ever in a dire situation like that. The SDF just do not have the training or experience.

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Japan doesn't have those kind of special forces, does it? No equivalent of the SAS | SBS or SEALS, right? Stay out of it Japan.

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I'm supportive of this. First, regardless of whether they fight countries, armies, or ideas, it isn't a very good idea to let hostiles take your citizens at will.

In Japan, it is important to have the legal framework in place, because they are a very bureaucratic, "positive-list" (the correct English is actually "permissive" AFAIK). So, anything that thinks it might be nice for them to work towards such a capability should support the law, because only with the law passed will there be an impetus and justification to divert budget and resources towards making it happen.

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Yes, that Abe has an 'intended policy', which means he is not and was not following CURRENT policy.

No, that is not what I meant. I explained it very clearly above.

Now, you have made a claim here that Abe is not following Japanese government policy. Prove it.

1) What is current Japanese government policy regarding the taking of hostages and actions related to it.

2) How is the Abe government's policy not in line with what you mistakenly perceive as 'current policy' regarding the taking of hostages and the actions related to it.

I have a feeling you will respond as you did when I asked you for proof of your equally mistaken claim that the Japanese government 'hid the fact that hostages had been taken for months', which was to not respond at all.

The rest of your post has nothing to do with my comments and opinions and as such do not require a response from me.

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slumdog: "Try not twisting other people's words..."

That's not even the pot calling the kettle black.

"It is quite clear what I meant above."

Yes, that Abe has an 'intended policy', which means he is not and was not following CURRENT policy. in fact, he is saying that because of IS we need to change the constitution, despite him saying the constitution needed to be changed before they became the excuse of the hour for his personal mission, so is therefore IS not dictating change? What would take courage, and what would take TRUE leadership, would be to stick to Japan's current constitution and be a TRUE beacon of peace -- not a land that claims to be a nation of peace that can suddenly send troops into war! That makes zero sense on ANY level!

Abe has and always does make up things as he goes, then tries to kid everyone by saying it was 'mandated' by elections with the most dismal 'majority' in voter history, or by going over the heads of anyone who is against it (another ex.: the Secrets Law). He wants to be able to send Japanese people to fight and die in places where there aren't even any Japanese in danger and he calls that 'defense' and says it's for 'peace'. Reminds me of the stupidity of the rationale that the atomic bombings were 'to save lives' or that Japan colonized and massacred ten million across Asia 'for its independence and defense'.

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You admit he has not followed policy, but only policy he 'intends'.

? Umm...No, I admit the government of Japan, of which Abe is leader, intended or planned on a foreign policy and changes to it should not be dictated by ISIS. The Japanese government's actions should be decided by the Japense government, not ISIS.

It is quite clear what I meant above. Try not twisting other people's words and you will fare at least slightly better in these discussions.

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slumdog: ""Classic", huh? Isn't that precious. In August 2014 you clearly wrote that Yukawa 'deserves what he gets' and you claim to care about the safety of Japanese people? I throw the term 'classic' right back at you."

Yes, "classic". You admit he has not followed policy, but only policy he 'intends'. What would be precious would be if Abe didn't spit on the Constitution by calling aggression 'peace' and not putting his citizens in harm's way as "protecting" them. But hey, you yourself admitted you don't choose words wisely.

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If Abe had any honour however, he would take responsibility for the deaths of Goto and Yukawa, and resign.

Looks as if someone just went overboard.

No politician is going to resign for death of civilians especially when they went against numerous advise not to go. Why should they? The blood is on the hands of IS members, not on the PM or anyone else in Japan. Anyone suggesting otherwise is just trying to pin on something on them which won't stick.

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Classic!!

"Classic", huh? Isn't that precious. In August 2014 you clearly wrote that Yukawa 'deserves what he gets' and you claim to care about the safety of Japanese people? I throw the term 'classic' right back at you.

Abe is responsible for all Japanese citizens and that means he cannot and must not let terrorists like ISIS dictate Japanese foreign policy. You know, the foreign policy that the leader, Abe, dictates.

ISIS has shown what scum they are and Abe was correct for not giving in to them.

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slumdog's: "You are suggesting that Abe and Japan should have altered their intended foreign policy due to threats from terrorists."

Classic!! 'Alter INTENDED policy...'! No, people are saying he did not follow ACTUAL policy, or even his own admission that he's responsible for the safety of Japanese! Nice of you to admit he was not doing his job. No one's saying he should alter his personal alterations. Too funny! You defeat your own comments.

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Nope, I beg to differ

I do not understand your nor your link's point. Abe knew there were risks to the hostages if he persued his country's foreign policy...So? Yukawa and Got also knew the risks of going into that area...So? Neither of these justify even in the slightest what happened to the two Japanese and one Jordanian hostage.

You are suggesting that Abe and Japan should have altered their intended foreign policy due to threats from terrorists. I cannot see any reasonable government doing that. What you are suggesting is that the whole country of Japan should be held hostage to the demands of ISIS. If any country does that, there is no end to their being held hostage to the whims of ISIS.

ISIS does not have the right to dictate Japanese foreign policy.

ISIS is evil and should be fought against. Supporting the fight against ISIS is the correct thing to do. Japan has chosen to fight ISIS rather than be held hostage by them. I think they have chosen the best path possible.

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Nope, I beg to differ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/01/japan-s-prime-minister-knew-he-was-putting-hostage-lives-at-risk.html That doesn't mean that Abe should get what he wants

It's the same lame argument you used@01:09PM JST. But it appears Abe bashers repeat the same thing over and over where their argument and reasoning starts to mirror that of the terrorists.

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You're all over the place. First of all, the Foreign Ministry pleaded three times to Goto not to travel there but despite the warning, he did. He even stated on the video that it was his responsibility alone before he entered Syria.

Nope, I beg to differ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/01/japan-s-prime-minister-knew-he-was-putting-hostage-lives-at-risk.html That doesn't mean that Abe should get what he wants

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he would take responsibility for the deaths of Goto and Yukawa,

He isn't and wasn't responsible for their deaths.

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It's simple: Abe stands to profit from this. Not contenting himself with boosting humanitarian aid (his speech to this effect put Yukawa and Goto on deathwatch) he wants to expand the SDFs overseas role. Boom! When was the last time you saw the mother of any deceased Japanese (specifically in a war zone etc) criticise the government? It's not how the culture works. If Abe had any honour however, he would take responsibility for the deaths of Goto and Yukawa, and resign. We live in hope

You're all over the place. First of all, the Foreign Ministry pleaded three times to Goto not to travel there but despite the warning, he did. He even stated on the video that it was his responsibility alone before he entered Syria. So yeah. When it turned out tragically, I did expect the family members to apologize. I guess this is where the honor is displayed.

As to the humanitarian aid which is essentially the only thing you can do and is in line with the previous cabinets under the constraints of Article 9, it goes to show you that this is meaningless to those groups as they have basically declared war on Japan.

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That's how they view the situation so I don't understand this obsession by the unrelated people to blame this on Abe.

It's simple: Abe stands to profit from this. Not contenting himself with boosting humanitarian aid (his speech to this effect put Yukawa and Goto on deathwatch) he wants to expand the SDFs overseas role. Boom! When was the last time you saw the mother of any deceased Japanese (specifically in a war zone etc) criticise the government? It's not how the culture works. If Abe had any honour however, he would take responsibility for the deaths of Goto and Yukawa, and resign. We live in hope

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From a political standpoint, I could never understand why any leaders would compromise, postpone, and even try to expunge a policy based on few hostages held especially by a known terrorist who has not shown any skill to even negotiate in a civilized manner.

Exaclty.

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I beg to differ. Abe knew the risks, and he took them anyway

Yep. And the general consesus among the Japanese population is 'so'? May sound cruel but neither Goto's family nor Yukawa's father blames Abe (in fact, both apologize for the inconvenience their family members caused and thanked the government's efforts). That's how they view the situation so I don't understand this obsession by the unrelated people to blame this on Abe.

From a political standpoint, I could never understand why any leaders would compromise, postpone, and even try to expunge a policy based on few hostages held especially by a known terrorist who has not shown any skill to even negotiate in a civilized manner.

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Abe knew the risks

The risks of what? Of angering the crazy extremists that were alreadying angry?

Terrorists cannot and must not be allowed to dictate a country's foreign policy. To do so would be tantamount to having the whole country held hostage.

ISIS is 100% to blame for the deaths of the two Japanese hostages and the Jordanian hostage.

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I beg to differ. Abe knew the risks, and he took them anyway. It doesn't make what ISIS did to the two Japanese and the pilot any less repulsive - but Abe must take his share of the blame for "applying the match to the dry wood". http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/01/japan-s-prime-minister-knew-he-was-putting-hostage-lives-at-risk.html

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Sorry Abe, you won't convince me with this one. Japan was muddling along ok till you went to the Middle East and made your humanitarian aid speech

The two Japanese hostages were captured, held and tortured before Abe went to the Middle East. The Jordanian pilot was already dead when ISIS claimed they wanted to trade him for their 'sister' in a Jordanian jail.

Sorry, ISIS kills because ISISI wants anyone who is not ISIS dead. It has nothing to do with where Abe went or what he said.

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Japan was muddling along ok till you went to the Middle East and made your humanitarian aid speech

I've noticed the trend of Abe bashers using the same line of argument or reasonings of that of the terrorists.

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Abe wants SDF to be allowed to rescue Japanese citizens in danger

Sorry Abe, you won't convince me with this one. Japan was muddling along ok till you went to the Middle East and made your humanitarian aid speech

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And what is the problem with that?

A nation's prime mandate is safety of their citizen, safeguard of their asset and protect their way of life. There is no kidding to it. A nation like Japan that is poor in natural resources requires people to maintain the essential flow of various resources to maintain stability of the nation and the government requires the safety of these people to fulfill their mandate.

The US government pulls their resources and power to fulfill the above said mandate to the limits placing resources to the far corners of this planet.

Having said that their is a limit to the JP government resources and bound by the present constitution so the government would need to prioritize the region and people to protect as well as limit the method within the limits to abide the constitution.

We private citizens really do not need to know the details on how the government carries out those mandates as long as they fulfill them.

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SamuraiBlue - By your logic Japan should have government agents in South America then too, because kidnapping is a major business there. Instead people are just warned and told to take out kidnapping insurance. And that's the only logical response. Business people make a business decision about the risks of operating in a region. They take their profits and often pay taxes in the other country.

And spies caught operating on foreign soil deserve to be executed.

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not buying it, abe just wants to expand military power any chance he gets

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Frungy

Do you know how many Japanese are presently residing in that region?

I am not talking about journalists but business people, construction managers, etc. that holds vital job to sustain the flow of oil to Japan. They had been and still are prime targets to IS and other extortion groups. The only way to hold sucessfull negotiations with future kidnappers is to know the key stakeholders and their agenda and the only way to obtain that kind of information is by foot.

That is what the Japanese government needs to focus on even further.

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SamuraiBlue - are you seriously proposing that a good reason for sending more agents into an area is because one agent was just killed? You do know that your proposal neatly fits Einstein's definition of insanity? Will you then use those agents' deaths as an excuse for further escalation?

I'm sorry, but that is just lunacy. A self-perpetuating cycle of death to accomplish precisely nothing productive.

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It's right to worry about capacity before worrying about how to wield it. The SDF doesn't have anywhere near the life-and-death decision-making experience to pull off a hostage rescue. Even experienced militaries fail in as many of these rescues as the succeed; a Japanese attempt now would put the members of a hypothetical SDF special forces team in danger of being taken hostage themselves.

Although I support Japan moving away from national self-defense to participating fully in the collective security apparatus, before the SDF can active abroad on its own, it and Japan-at-large will need decades to relearn what they have spent decades trying to forget.

Joint forces training, on the scale of the annual US-Korea exercises might be a good start.

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Here is a real interesting interview with Mr. Araya former JGSDF SOF commander. Sorry only in Japanese.

http://www.yobieki-br.jp/opinion/araya/ara_sat.html

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I repeat::Think about it very carefully. Don't be stupid like summer bugs plunging into fire of their own choice.

Mind you, messrs. Haruna Yukawa and Kenji Goto are innocent victims of the mistaken hostage policy of the government.

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Frungy

Neither you, Ossan or I have clearance to know what the JGSDF SOf are doing and the people who do are certainly not going to talk since that would violate the present secrecy act. I could speculate that they are at the moment stationed oversea ports keeping tab on various potential hostile nation's asset warships coming in and out of their home ports. Who knows with the murky fog of war Goto could have been an agent himself since many intelligence agency uses freelance reporters and photographers as agents to obtain information since they are less detectable in moving around in hot spots like the ME and SEA.

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So Mr. Abe, think about it very carefully.

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OssanAmericaFeb. 03, 2015 - 02:03AM JST Sorry but Jaoan already has such a unit and additional training isn't going to change the budgetary aspect.

So what you're saying is that Japan is already killing its citizens by diverting funds to an unnecessary unit that cannot be used, and that this is good?

... and here we have the idiocy of militaries made manifest in all of its glory. You kill your citizens by inches in order to have an elite unit that you cannot use. Why?

And the idea that additional training costs nothing is... well, that is plainly wrong. It has an "opportunity cost". That means that the budget for this useless elite unit could be used to actually save lives.

In some circumstances their use may be the right choice.

No. Their use would be illegal under current Japanese law. If you're correct that this unit exists and is good to go then it is useless and a waste of money. If it doesn't exist or isn't good to go then it'll take more money to get it ready. Either way it is a waste of money.

And it will never be the right choice since you're not saving lives, you're just putting more lives at risk to save one life. That's sort of logic is the same as going to a casino and betting a ten thousand dollars to try and win back the thousand dollars you just lost. It isn't logical or sensible, it is a risk. Sometimes that risk pays off... and when it doesn't they declare the botched operation a state secret - go and look at wikileaks, there are many, many botched rescue operations that were made secrets because they wanted to promote the image that they always get their man.

Clearly you prefer to sit on your couch and watch one hostage after another getting beheaded. Is that because if they are Japanese they don't count to you?

It doesn't matter what their nationality is. This is a simple question of the cold hard logic of finance. Attempting to paint me as a racist just because my logic is irrefutable just shows that you have no valid counter-argument so you've gone for mud-slinging instead.

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A former high-ranking U.S. intelligence officer told in a recent NHK interview that the U.S. made a big mistake by releasing Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, now an Islamic State leader, from a POW camp in U.S. military-occupied Iraq.

It was surprising, though, that he didn't go farther than this as to the true cause of the problem because Islamic State (formerly ISIS) is basically an end product of the Iraq War, one of Bush's Wars. Saddam Hussein's former royalists are said to be core members of Islamic State.

You have created problems and are left to settle your debts. You asked for it. Chickens indeed come home to roost.

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FrungyFEB. 03, 2015 - 01:01AM JST The cold and chilly realities of finance (as opposed to the cowboy dream some people here seem to be living in) dictates that before this unit even has its boots on they will have killed Japanese citizens. Oh sure they won't have shot anyone, but some cancer patient won't get their treatment because there's no budget, or some unemployed person will commit suicide because their benefits were cut off, or in one of a hundred thousand other ways it will cost lives.

nothing more to add. this is the reality folks. the japanese system cannot handle its liabilities as it is today. imagine how a real engagement into international military intervention will affect this further.

i just see the cronies having paved the whole country with "infrastructure" looking for new ventures to get kickbacks from - that being arm deals and other related businesses.

japanese people should stand up and finally realise the crazy dreamworld they are being sold by their "leadership". how is it even possible that they trust somebody like Abe san? a looser that once had to retreat from his post as prime minister because he had stomach pains?

fool me once - shame on you. fool me twice - shame on me.

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There is no relevance between this proposal and Goto's particular case. By not making that clear, Abe is muddying the discussion - why?. It is in fact an insult to Goto - a poor substitute for recognizing the work and risks taken by a journalist. There is a legitimate case for considering the rescue of hijacked passengers, kidnapped businessmen, etc. However, even then such cases would not likely be in power vacuum area, but rather in a sovereign nation which already has its own military force for dealing with such situations and would be unlikely to welcome another countries commandos.

Abe should not try to leverage emotions but instead focusing on rational realities - hostage rescue is but one approach, which is not practical or justifiable in many cases - certainly not in Goto's.

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I think any added involvement against IS is good but not a solution. Who made IS? Who finance them? The UN should study the roots of the problem. IS was created out of militia fighting Assad's regime. The UN knows who financed those groups!

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FrungyFeb. 03, 2015 - 01:01AM JST Nonsense.

Sorry but Jaoan already has such a unit and additional training isn't going to change the budgetary aspect. In some circumstances their use may be the right choice. Clearly you prefer to sit on your couch and watch one hostage after another getting beheaded. Is that because if they are Japanese they don't count to you?

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OssanAmericaFeb. 02, 2015 - 10:27PM JST There is a basic reason why Japan should have a SOF anti-Terrorist unit trained and capable of overseas deployment, And the existence of such does not necessary guarantee that they would be always or even ever be used, There may be situations in the future where multiple hostage lives may be at stake, and the only options being conduct a rescue operation with little chance of success, or sit there do nothing and watch numerous people get beheaded,

Nonsense.

These units cost trillions of yen to outfit, train and maintain, and that's before you even consider the horrendous cost of dedicated surveillance satellites, cultivating and paying intelligence sources on the ground, and all the other costs.

This money doesn't come from nowhere. It comes from health and welfare, it comes from pensions, it comes from unemployment benefits, it comes from your taxes (which WILL go up).

The cold and chilly realities of finance (as opposed to the cowboy dream some people here seem to be living in) dictates that before this unit even has its boots on they will have killed Japanese citizens. Oh sure they won't have shot anyone, but some cancer patient won't get their treatment because there's no budget, or some unemployed person will commit suicide because their benefits were cut off, or in one of a hundred thousand other ways it will cost lives.

This is the reality. Militaries kill people without even putting a bullet in their gun. They cost money needed elsewhere.

This unit might save a few lives, but it will kill hundreds or thousands of others in the process. Anyone denying that is living in a fantasy.

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Lets hope Abe pushes that legislation allowing Japan to persue its collective self-defense role.

Japan has got big shoes to fill if it wants to contribute to security. Weather its own borders, airspace, senkaku is. or brave Japanese like Goto. Japanese people deserve better from its government. But, its the people who must accept the collective sd policy.

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They might be able to put something together, like a task force but to go at it alone seems highly unlikely to me. USMC and Army units have huge fixed and rotary wing assets not to mention logistics, ordinance, supporting fires, intel/recon etc. The USMC or Army could almost pull off a contingency response on their own they just need transport to get there. They also have much experience working with other nations like the Brits, Aus, Israel, and European countries. I guess Japan could piggyback on Allied assets, but they would have to teach their recruits English; I cant see the rest of any coaliation learning japanese. From my private sector experience in dealing with them seems to be more of a pain with the insular my way or no way attitude, but maybe that is different over on the military side.

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There is a basic reason why Japan should have a SOF anti-Terrorist unit trained and capable of overseas deployment, And the existence of such does not necessary guarantee that they would be always or even ever be used, There may be situations in the future where multiple hostage lives may be at stake, and the only options being conduct a rescue operation with little chance of success, or sit there do nothing and watch numerous people get beheaded, Even if Japan's allies were capable of carrying out a rescue operation they may balk at the odds, Only a Japanese unit could take the risk because only they would be forgiven by the Japanese public if the operations fail, Let's not forget that even SEAL and SAS operations do sometimes fail.

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@slumdog

Are you kidding? Look above at SmithinJapan's post for a start, which is the post I first responded to.

You asked a question. Did you want an answer?

I read the posts you indicated. I did not see the part where SmithinJapan said "it should not even be thought about ever.". In fact, it sounds to me like he did think about it. I looks to me like he considered the pros and cons, and he really did think about it and encourages thinking. And I bet that if a similar situation arose, he would think about it again. And depending on variables, he might even approve. But you accused people of saying something, but he did not say it, and you mention no other people. That is not the way to carry on a discussion.

I direct you to my first post, this thread. Thomas Jefferson would have said similar things as SmithinJapan I bet, but after literally thousands of kidnappings TJ finally opted for military intervention. Maybe SmithinJapan would too? Now, would say that when TJ opted for military intervention that that was TJ admitting he was wrong from the start and saying he should have gone for the military option from the outset?

And, do you see what I did there? I asked you for your opinion. I could have handed it to you, and said "people here saying TJ admitted he was wrong" but I didn't do that. It would have been wrong of me.

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the best thing that came from this debacle is that Japanese now are beginning to understand that remaining neutral on international matters doesnt make you immune to terrorism, and they need to make a larger contribution whether they like it or not

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Crickey is correct- for this to be pulled off you need a special forces unit trained for the Job. but to get a group set up you need it to be approved. Current training in Japan leaves much to be desired - it is still a peacetime disaster recovery service.

currently Japan is not ready for an attack on it's own soil let alone staging a rescue

for those with hatred toward PM Abe; what did you want as a response? a withdrawal of all aid? a withdrawal from the world and fences put up around the island walling it away from the world?

The PM must look to defending the country- no matter who is in place i would expect the same type of an answer

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I strongly disagree that Japan should wait until they are attacked as you can not perdict the gravity of the attack. However I do feel that now is not the time to put boots on the ground over there. Also when the decision is made to do it, send special forces without the enemy or anyone else knowledge of what you are doing to protect your people snd your country.The day will come when all that are concern and worry about the abilities of these monsters will have to get involved.

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A lot of video game experts and military strategists giving their expert opinions... I will be sure to watch you guys give expert advice on t.v. ( not ). Alot of armchair military advisors... Where did you guys get your training from ? West Point or Mos Burgers ? Please guys stop giving military advice.

The " Best Tactic " of all to save Japanese people's lives is to not go abroad in a war torn country. If they do they must sign a waiver. I would just advise ALL Japanese citizens if your planning any visit to a war torn country please remember you could be held hostage and die. Don't expect the random to be paid and " have a happy ending like some action movie.

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have not read every single post, but who are those people?

Are you kidding? Look above at SmithinJapan's post for a start, which is the post I first responded to.

nation invading another nation in the throes of a civil war to accomplish national goals is quite improperly termed a reasonable option, no matter how small the invading force is. It is a last resort option.

I never said it was not a last resort option. I merely suggested it was an option that other nations have and that it is reasonable for Japan to have it, as well.

A defeatist attitude won't win you positive votes,especially when its also insulting.

Speaking of misreading posts. There was nothing insulting about my post. The present situation in Syria is such that I could not see any country being successful in rescuing hostages in the situation that these two Japanese citizens were in. I was just pointing out that any rescue operation is difficult. I have the fullest respect for the JSDF.

Thank you for comments. I will try to choose better words next time.

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turbotsat

You can dig youtube for past vids if you want, I am just too lazy to do that for you.

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@slumdog Pretty much everything is wrong with your post, from your, i believe false, interpretation of other people's words and meanings, to your solutions.

People who say it should not even be thought about ever are being unrealistic.

I have not read every single post, but who are those people? I did not read any post saying that and I doubt any two people did. When you make strawmen, people will give you negative votes.

"However, it does seem reasonable for it to be an option for a sovereign nation such as Japan. "

A nation invading another nation in the throes of a civil war to accomplish national goals is quite improperly termed a reasonable option, no matter how small the invading force is. It is a last resort option.

It goes without saying that even if Japan would have legally been able to attempt such a rescue that it would not have been possible to be successful.

A defeatist attitude won't win you positive votes,especially when its also insulting. Plenty of rescue operations go wrong. It only takes a relative handful of people to effect such an operation and there is no way we can know if Japan has such a competent handful available. Knocking the military as a whole is easy, but you can't possibly know enough about each and every squad to declare them all incapable.

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The jgsdf SOF guys have the potential, they dont lack for funding. Its just the thought of them going right into DA with no training or credibilityakes me cringe.

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I have to confess my surprise at the bit of negative response to my posts above. What exactly is so wrong about my opinion? Enlighten me.

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@samurai blue

Nice to see your a big JSDF fan/follower )

Yes, from your vid links it appears they did some joint exercises with big brother out at the stumps. The stumps were always hosting events like this, not only with the Japanese but with other services and countries as well. Id hardly call that special forces training though ) Not hating on the JSDF, they are very well trained in what they do, I just dont see them becoming a tip of the spear seal team 6 anytime soon. I dont look to them for any inspiration either.....). As you know, the JSDF wanted to form a Marine Corps type unit, so this must be part of the training for it. Many dont know but the US created the JSDF from the police after WW2. The kempo actually prohibits Japan from having any standing army, so its an interesting turn of events, thats for sure.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@samuraiblue Just wont let it go huh, ok let me break it down barney style for you. YS is a CPX (cmd post ex), my unit 75th Rangers out of Ft. Benning sent a white cell team to assist the tiger team with the OPFOR SOF scenario. I can assure you we werent installing comms. Im also sure there were lots of signals guys running all the comms and im pretty sure I Corps CG ( commanding general, a 3 star) was also not running comms. Of all the people there, i would guess only a signals battalion was doing all the comms (300 out of the 2k US personnel). The other portion as uou mentioned was run by I Corps infantry regiments and III MEF Marines doing combat manuevers, nothing I was involved in, but good try jumping to an uneducated assumption. You being a civilian i can forgive your general ignorance of military matters, no matter how much you like to google. But insulting people like me and 5 petals really should be beneath you. I dont like putting other peoples foot in their mouths but your doing a pretty good job of it on your own!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

SamuraiBlue: Just to be clear, these guys are NOT from the Special Forces Group.

All three links are "recent", published in 2013, this in re 5petal's "Maybe thats a recent development but when I was in".

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Of course they do. Who do you think's been building the snow statues at the Sapporo Snow Festival?

As I recall when Koizumi had the JDF in Iraq they were very busy on ofuro patrol. The British special forces surrounded the Japanese "base" to protect it.

This is one of the lamest ideas Abe has had so far, and that is not an easy thing to accomplish. Putting Japanese troops in harms way will just get more Japanese killed. If Abe keeps this up Japan itself could become a target.

I am checking my reference material but I think Abe spelled sideways is Bush.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

abe is taking the lesson opposite to common sense from this

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Here is another interesting vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5jVNbw_Kj4

Just to be clear, these guys are NOT from the Special Forces Group.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Orlik, why not just develop Gundams and build the Space Battleship Yamato? Those are just as likely as your scenario.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

5petals

Yeah right, like all the vids on Youtube released by the USMC showing the Marines training with JGSDF personnel is just a show and that the yelling is just a voice over. LoL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUdFzB0KlwE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O9W7kdi13Y

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

As many have already so eloquently posted, Japan does not have the capability or infrastructure to pull off a successful spec ops.

As I wrote above, that is probably true. However, it does seem reasonable for it to be an option for a sovereign nation such as Japan.

People who say it should not even be thought about ever are being unrealistic. Japan will need to take care of itself at some point. Baby steps in that direction are not a bad thing.

It goes without saying that even if Japan would have legally been able to attempt such a rescue that it would not have been possible to be successful.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Way back in the early 1800s, Thomas Jefferson pained over such decisions despite constant attacks and captures of American merchant ships and sailors by the Barbary Pirates. Yes, in the end, TJ launched the Barbary Wars, but he did so only after great care and consideration. I am positive that TJ would not approve of any government going all military gung ho over a pair of hostages. Its like letting a bull loose in a china shop. The government and military are not your parents. They are not there to hold your hand when you set your course straight into trouble. Any other response is asking for Big Brother for yourself, and bunch of people who suffered collateral damage wanting to attack you just for being a citizen. So no thanks Abe. Stand down. Japanese got a wake up call about foreign travel and that should be enough.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

if somebody pull this, then it is the "samurai state"

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, I think this "special forces" and "hostage rescue operation" approach is too reactive and weak-kneed and obviously hasn't worked for the Americans and other Western forces trying to eliminate Islamic terrorism. First, Japan formally declares war on ISIS, the Caliphate state, ignoring UN resolutions, multilateralism, and the usual nonsense. Rename the JSDF the Imperial Japanese Army, Navy and Air Force and begin training them in intense offensive operations, including amphibious landings and forced entries in port cities. Then form a large naval task group and an expeditionary force of say 150,000 soldiers. A lot of civilian roll-off-roll-on ship transport could pressed into service for this. Then sail it down there and force entry into Syria and proceed to exterminate ISIS and its allies, generally lay waste to the area, then withdraw, sail home and don't offer to rebuild any of the region, supply humanitarian aid etc., and indicate that further such operations could be forthcoming if necessary.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Wouldn't it be much cheaper and easier to ban Japanese from travel to Syria and other dumps?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Instead of dreaming about Japanese rambo commandos, Abe should conduct realistic policy against ISIS, including: 1) putting pressure on Turkey to stop buying oil from ISIS, 2) arming the Kurds, 3) lift the sanctions against the Alevite Assad regime in Syira and asking the US to do the same.

There is more, but that would be an obvious start.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@samurai blue

Maybe thats a recent development but when I was in, they had a JSDF camp across the road and we shared some facilities, but we never interacted with them; I dont even think we used the same firing ranges. I can never remember one time ever training with them. Their equipment language tatics etc were foriegn to us as we were to them. The US has power projected all over the world, Japan only has bases in Japan. Im sure some nationalist would like to change up that scenario but those days are long gone. Japan iniially had very successful power projection in WW2 to buffer it from the gaijin colonial white powers it percieved as a threat. but that paradigm has long changed. They used stealth and deception to overthrow other governments etc to successfully obtain their objective. The new paradigm is cooperation with the new world order and intergration with the free world.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I give full support in sending troops to eradicate these terrorists.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Has anybody here even seen the sof guys that Japan trains? There are anti terror trained groups in abundance. There are Rangers which are the equal to Americas Army Rangers (hence the name). SAT, interdiction units and especially the SFGp etc are heavily trained and funded by the Japanese government for hostage recovery and rescue. Unbelievable the ignorance of most people.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Japan’s military to rescue Japanese citizens in danger, following the beheading of a Japanese reporter by Islamic State militants

Most of the Japanese citizens murdered by Terrorists are journalists who are on the foreign nations. The motives an actions of terrorists are different. For example hijacking the plane and ship in Japan for blackmailing the government. For that case, SDF will be very useful. However Islamic terrorists are better off financially. They used the Guerrilla tactics for capturing and beheading foreigners. They are totally invisible for their actions. Therefore SDF may be pretty useless for saving civilians lives because of time, waiting the permission of foreign government and travelling distance issue.

In 2007, one of Japanese journalist was murdered by military police of Myanmar or Burma. That MP was a public servant of Myanmar. For Myanmar government, he was the spy. For Japan, he was a journalist who was doing his job. SDF can not wage the war with Myanmar authority for that intentional shooting. Japan even did not get the apology for that murder. Abe theory of sending SDF for saving hostages is the fantasy. It does not work for the real world.

.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Again, Abe shooting from the hip and showing off his ignorance and naivete. As many have already so eloquently posted, Japan does not have the capability or infrastructure to pull off a successful spec ops. We're talking big leagues now and for a little league guy to be talking like that is ridiculous. It's not only about the money and the people to operate, it's the decades of experience based on successes, failures and most importantly the blood, sweat and total dedication of the spec operators who have made it what it is today. There is no instant cup noodle answer that Abe so desperately wants. Best thing is for him to keep his mouth shut. His $200 million dollar aid speech is akin to W's "Bring 'em on" gaffe. Both inciting and taunting the enemy. At least W admitted he made a mistake saying that, especially when the insurgency ramped up after he said, "bring 'em on..." Not Abe, not man enough, and the press? Not man enough to grill him about it.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

This is a perfectly serious question. Have there ever been any psychological studies to learn if a lifetime spent amidst a flood of manga and anime, in which things tend to just happen according to the imagination, without involving cumbersome real-life processes, can result in personalities that expect miraculous results to just happen as expected?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

As expected, Abe is using a tragedy

I dare say that it is obviousl that you have been using this tragedy to promote your anti-Abe rantings.

I think it is reasonable for Japan as a sovereign nation to have the option of rescuing their citizens. However, I think that in most cases this would not be a realistic option.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Serrano, I merely suggest it be thought out very carefully before any decision is made to once again put themselves in danger for the sake of pride. Once they have such a team, it will tempt them to start using it, with unfortunate results in the long run, as we have seen in the United States.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Abe should not forget that Goto went on his own to help Haruma. Cause nobody wanted to help this guy. What was Abe thinking in Nov. 2014? To busy with election, but now as shit hit the fan he slipw into his big boy pants?

We all know that the Japanese Political Elite is full of armchair bigots, that let the peasants sort out their troubles while they have a tea ceremony and whatnot. Immature and no able to take appropriate political actions - wether domestic or foreign relations.

I am not afraid of the general idea of a Japanese army, that has more responsibilities than now. But the politicians and policy makers scare me. they are for the most part irresponsible and incompetent to be in charge of such duties. After 70years of being the bellend of the US in terms of foreign policy they just don't have the experience to take actions by their own.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

LRRP_Ranger

So you were at camp Itami, Osaka to install, operate, and maintain information systems in support of the exercise and not at Camp Kengu in Kumamoto where all the live action was going on. Nice going ranger.

http://delawarenationalguard.com/press/artman2/publish/feb_07/261st_supports_51st_Annual_Yama_Sakura_Exercise.cfm

http://www.hawaiiarmyweekly.com/storage/2011/11/20110204.pdf

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Yama Sakura is usually held at Camp Itami, near Osaka. Google is your friend. I do want to emphasize that I'm not knocking the individual SDF members....but they are no more suited for this job than I would at be at teaching tea ceremony. I don't have the patience humility or aesthetic sense, and neither do most Americans I know.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If japan doesn't agree to expanding their military power there will be more rp events like this and false flags until they submit. They might even end up doing one inside the country to gain more support. Now with the secrecy act in place manipulating the public will be easier to accomplish. And with the intelligence sharing with the CIA who has been in the game of swaying public opinion for quite sometime now, the Japanese government has the upper hand on their citizens who are unfamiliar with the tactics of false flags and propaganda.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

5petals Feb. 02, 2015 - 11:40AM JST

Agree with 5petals entirely, I haven't seen the programme he mentions, but for a country with as little conventional military presence anywhere as Japan, to suddenly start talking about sending elite soldiers to foreign countries to sort out hostage situations sounds like a massive pipe dream. Even the US is basically limited to sending their teams to war zones since most countries don't readily welcome foreign troops on their soil, even if it is to rescue their own countrymen, so this boils down to civil war zones where both British and US rescue efforts have been incredibly lacking in results.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

5petals

Western Army Infantry Regiment has been training with the USMC for the last ten years as well starting with the Iron Fist joint training exercise.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Well getting back on topic, what one of the commenters said is spot on, they are too insular and rigid in the training they conduct, its almost like a script thats been written from hundreds of years ago that has to be adhered too simply beacuse that is what they have been doing. For example when we met some of these guys during downtime, they wore their balaclavas even when it was just us and them, they citied "tradition" or something to that effect according to our translator, who could only speak about 10 japanese words. It was all pretty comical.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

"Go ahead, . . . . poke that hornet's nest."

In other words, don't even think about trying to rescue your country's citizens in life-threatening situations.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I went to some place in osaka in 07, i remember it was osaka because i saw that running guy on a bldg during PAUSEX,, was pretty neat. If its held elsewhere since then thats gtg, would love to get back to japan (mainland) someday.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Seen the JSDF Ranger training on the History channel. It looks to be uniquely tailored for Japan. Im sure I couldnt do it and not dissing it from a physical point, but would have to agree with LRRP, it seems very different (tailored for Japan with emphasis on effort) than the more broad based and sensible objectives Rangers, USMC and SEALs train for. I think it was just recently that USMC recon actually gave the JSDF some basic training in the mainland using the rafts ect. Never been in DA, and to even suggest its something that a force thats never been in such an extremely hostile enviroment could be stood up and activated seems to be a bit dreamy to me. Not saying they are incapable but the whole paradigm would have to change?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Go ahead, . . . . poke that hornet's nest.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Oh what a phenomenal surprise: Abe milking the situation to forward his remilitarisation agenda.

Whoever could have predicted that? Oh yes, I did, on Jan 22nd.

Shameless, blatant opportunism. What an odious little man.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Yama Sakura is the largest U.S. Army annual bilateral exercise in Asia-Pacific region but it is held in Osaka last year it was held in Yokota and Sendai. In fact going through the past archive I haven't a single YS joint exercise that was staged in Osaka.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

And its Ranger, not ranger *wink

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@ samuraiblue Sorry to make you angry but JCET was decommissioned after some incident in south america, we havent run one of those in almost 10 years. They are usuallu reserved for hotspot areas, i went to one of those as an observer in 05. And due to disclosure concerns we certainly water down a lot of the info given. Need anymore info?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Perhaps a JSDF securiy force for guarding Japan embassies abroad is plausible. Would have to agree with other posters here. The resources and experience involved in getting into international affairs like this; Japan is still behind the curve and way too insular, and those habits are hard if not impssible to unlearn for Japanese The US and Europe have been dealing with this issue for awhile, and its challenging, to say the least, even for multicultural societies. Japan can barely deal with .5 % of its population being non Asian japanese and they dont speak English. The coordination and skillsets required would involve integration/adaptation with the world, not just bringing your own "unique" habit of copying what "they' (the US and Europe, other countries involve in this) are doing and modifying it to fit your own "superior" mindset. Its a very fast moving and changing enviorment to operate in. That being said, I could be proven wrong, perhaps they know something I dont.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Here we go again with the "we have never trained with other SOF" BS where a person claims to be SOF when he never heard of JCET programs, Special Operations Command - Joint Capabilities (SOC-JC), and/or NSHQ.

Some ranger he is.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@ samuraiblue There is a yearly exercise called YAMA SAKURA held in Osaka, they send these guys from somewhere in Tokyo and they demonstrate forced entry tactics to us, ( we certainly have the clearance, i cant imagine an SCI clearance is anything japan guys have access to) . Its all kind of amateurish but they certainly try hard.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

How did you observe the Special Forces Group if you haven't trained with them and their training exercise classified as confidential?

Their training is off limits and are not open to public as well as their identity.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@ samuraiblue We have never trained with other SOF, there is lots of interoperability, like working with adjacent units in a DA, but we certainly dont train with any of them, there is nothing to learn from others, we wrote the book on SOF TACSOP. We certainly wouldnt train with operators that have never operated, like the japan " SOF" guys, would be like teaching kids how to build a rocket.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Well done fool! There you go shooting your mouth off again without any consideration of the consequences. Do you want to make Japan a target for the Muslim extremists? Really? Do you not remember what happened in Africa? How many Japanese were killed there when the law stormed the plant? The best way to bring the war home is to go looking for it! These two deaths were of Jaoanese people who should not have been there in the first place. The only reason they were killed was because of Abe shooting his mouth off and offering huge amounts of money to wipe out IS. Ignorance can be cured with education, but stupidity cannot be cured!

3 ( +9 / -6 )

this politics and propaganda at its worse , japan should take care of japan , sending sdf fources abroad big mistake , donating money 200 million to what? Humanitarian Causes, and isis Gets mad? ! Abe is destryoying japan with his wanting to use the military, lets stop this

1 ( +4 / -3 )

As a Ranger who has observed japans "SOF" during several YAMA SAKURA exercises (never trained with, we dont train with other SOF) I can certainly say they are woefully unprepared to conduct any kind of DA. They have the kit but not the training, they are simply constrained by never being involved in a real world DA. We all agree that it would be disastrous if they engaged in any kind of DA.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The current Constitution is something to be admired, and one reason that Japan is above other nations in seeking peace and not war.

Please smithinjapan, I hope you stick to your daily Japan bashing instead of convenient flip flop attitude depend on your interest. I know Koreans are strongly against Japan's any change of constitution.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"As expected, Abe is using a tragedy, in part provoked by his belligerence, to push his own agenda." @SmithinJapan. I think--and fear---you may be more right than you even realize. Yukawa was captured near the of end of last summer with Goto's capture coming after he attempted to rescue Yukawa, per newsreports from the USA. The Abe government knew this back in the fall and I never saw anything in the news about it until this year---after the election was held and "the mandate" was sealed. Is it possible that this is just a coincidence?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Japanese Prime Minister Abe said on Monday he wants to discuss a framework that would allow Japan’s military to rescue Japanese citizens in danger,

A very slippery slope. You almost never rescue anyone without folks on the other side dying. What happens when those folks decide to take their revenge? And don't think it could not happen. If you've ever been to Hawaii, or some parts of the western U.S. or Europe, during GW of Obon, groups of Japanese tourists are easily identifiable. Does Japan really want to go down that road? Domestic terrorism is unlikely in Japan, given the tough immigration laws, but outside of Japan is an entirely different ball game. Just look at Charlie Hebdo.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Dylan, have you ever worked with SDF members during an emergency? I have a relative who has (3-11 quake aftermath), and despite their incredible work ethic, bravery and guts, they simply don't think on their feet. Arbitrary rules stymie them, cultural differences stop them in their tracks, and obvious solutions are missed if they aren't written down in a procedures manual. I think anyone who teaches here has seen these traits as well. May be painful, but you know it's true. So do several other commenters. They can develop the capabilities but it will take decades. Better to rely on others who have not been raised to be passive and follow rules to the letter.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Abe wants legislation this year to lift a ban on the military fighting overseas to help allies under attack. Known as collective self-defense, the change would be the biggest military policy shift since Japan’s armed forces were reassembled 60 years ago after its World War Two defeat. This is all wrong, It is a way to make Japan puppet force of USA. What japans constitution should allow is simple Defense after the even smallest aggression of Japans Territory, rescue of Japanese citizens if unjustifiably taken captive and retaliation against those that cause unjustifiable harm to Japanese citizens . It this particular case Japan should have and use a striking commando force and cause painful far reaching damage to IS. If this two where Israelis (or any Jews) first Mosad would find where they are kept and try to rescue them and if not successful 100 to one killing would be done by Israels SDF.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Do the SDF have an equivalent to special forces?

Of course they do. Who do you think's been building the snow statues at the Sapporo Snow Festival?

10 ( +11 / -1 )

"Hmm. You wanted to be in the game, right? Now you're in the game." - The Wire

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

As expected, Abe is using a tragedy, in part provoked by his belligerence, to push his own agenda. Let's say he had his wish on this one and the Japanese could send in troops to rescue two men who willingly went into danger against all common sense and warnings; how would the legally do so? They would literally be INVADING a foreign nation, which is not defense but an act of war. And given that they have no idea where those people were being held, they would have just gotten more Japanese killed (again, in part thanks to Abe).

Stick with the current Constitution, people, and don't let this war-monger have his way. The current Constitution is something to be admired, and one reason that Japan is above other nations in seeking peace and not war.

-5 ( +11 / -16 )

Knox Harrington

In ten years you can accumulate a lot and the US SOF are not just lecturing they will initiate war game scenarios in which the US will act as the bad guys so there is a lot that is transferred from one side to the other in these exercises.

As for US air base there is the Incirlik Air Base in Turkey that can be used.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Do the SDF have an equivalent to special forces?

I see SamuraiBlue has already answered this question.

And already we have a military "expert" entertaining us.

So they can jump out of flying vehicles, use a parachute even. And where will they be picked up in daesh land? Where does the US have bases there?

Although the mission failed due to an accident, how many US bases do you think existed in the Iranian countryside during the hostage crisis? Your "reasoning" makes no sense whatsoever.

With regards to this recent case, it's debatable how effective a rescue would have been. Location of hostages has to be known and a realistic plan for extraction must exist. However, and this might really shock some of you right down to your high heels, not every situation is the same.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

So much debate about Japan's lack of military capabilities but no-one here is asking the simple question, "What would these rescue missions achieve?".

The short answer is, "More death.".

Even the famed US Navy seals and Airborne Rangers regularly suffer casualties on rescue missions, and things can go badly wrong. Therefore from the outset let's be clear that these rescue missions aren't about saving lives, they're about exchanging the death of one citizen (a soldier) for the death of another citizen (a civilian). And the civilian's life isn't even guaranteed. It takes just a second to execute the prisoner.

If these "rescue missions" aren't about saving lives then what are they about? Punishment and Revenge. That's the bottom line here, that these missions are designed to hurt the bad guys. But actually they mostly hurt civilians. It looks great in the movies when a sniper takes out an "hostile" from 1km away with a sniper rifle, or some special forces guy leaps out of the bushes and knifes some enemy out taking a pee, but in real life they have no idea if these guys really are "hostiles" or "enemies". They're relying on a patchwork of intelligence gathered by paid informants and guesswork, and the guy out taking a pee might just be a local farmer.

The civilian casualty rates for these spec ops missions are very, very high. Often this is because they spec ops ends up attacking some random civilian's house, shooting first and asking questions ... never. But hey, who cares, they're just foreigners, right? Well, don't be surprised when the enemy adopts the same attitude to you and your family then.

The bottom line is that there is no good reason for these rescue missions. The Japanese government should just withdraw Japanese citizens from these areas and say, "You go at your own risk. Don't say we didn't warn you.". Don't negotiate. Don't engage. Make it clear that every Japanese civilian killed will result in another $20 million of support for anti-IS causes. It would be cheaper and more effective than any number of "rescue missions".

3 ( +7 / -4 )

No SDF !

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Does Japan really need a group of SDF people kneeling in orange jumpsuits? And their mothers pleading on national television?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I'm not sure if Japan has the "right stuff" to pull off these rescue missions, seeming like they don't have the equivalent of a Seal Team 6 who's daily jobs is to do these insanely impossible jobs. Annual training with the US special forces isn't going to cut it. That said, I'm glad that Japan is showing some toughness in their response and I hope there's some way of conducting some sort of retaliatory response. These crazy Islamic animals doing this stuff aren't going to stop until the very last one is pounded into the sand where they belong.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

The JGSDF SOF, the Tokushu Sakusen Gun or Special Forces Group, they train with the US SOF annually for the last 10 years...

So they have trained once a year with the yanks. For ten years? A total of ten times? Thay must have picked up a lot.

They merged with the 1st Airborne Brigade, the 1st Helicopter Brigade and the 101st NBC Protection Unit to create the Central Readiness Force in 2007.They train CQB tactics and they are all airborne qualified.

So they can use helicopters and are "airborne"? Good. How does this apply to a rescue operation, going largely undiscovered by hostile forces, gathering intelligence beforehand?

They can operate with the JASDF utilizing the C-2 for transport and can be dropped into the enemy lines via HALO jump and can be picked up by helicopters from US bases stationed in that region

So they can jump out of flying vehicles, use a parachute even. And where will they be picked up in daesh land? Where does the US have bases there? Sorry Blue, I just don't find any of your mentioned information having any practical application to what would be a small, well-trained, covert rescue mission.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Finally Japanese start getting guts to stand up and fight...

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

jansob1

Trying to pull off highly dynamic combat operations in a complex hostile foreign environment is going to overwhelm them immediately. Japanese today are too insular, naive and inflexible to even begin to handle the constant twists and turns and instant decision making it would demand.

That statement is so incredibly generalising that it's hard to take the rest of your comment seriously...

3 ( +6 / -3 )

For the ill-advised not having a clue on JSDF potentials. The JGSDF SOF, the Tokushu Sakusen Gun or Special Forces Group, they train with the US SOF annually for the last 10 years since their conception in 2004 and have already operated abroad in Iraq as contingent under the Japanese Iraq Reconstruction and Support Group in 2005. They merged with the 1st Airborne Brigade, the 1st Helicopter Brigade and the 101st NBC Protection Unit to create the Central Readiness Force in 2007.They train CQB tactics and they are all airborne qualified.

They can operate with the JASDF utilizing the C-2 for transport and can be dropped into the enemy lines via HALO jump and can be picked up by helicopters from US bases stationed in that region.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

SDF Rescue operation seems to be too difficult overseas. Japan has no good intelligence service and no secret agents in Middle East. Even if best American rescue teams, they failed in rescue missions most of times over there in the past. Sending troops and starting war is anyway against the article 9 of the jpn constitution.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

How about a Japanese Foreign Legion, like the French? Train with the French Foreign Legion, the SAS, Green Berets. Rapid response teams emedded with coalition Foreign Legion allied teams. Deploy any time, any where, to rescue and repulse. Counter terrorism strike forces. As we know, the Isis oriented militants already have their legions deployed, and have set their targets. Time for Japan to defend itself in the real world, including beyond the airports and seaports of the homeland. Relying solely on locals, risks repeat atrocities. Take as broad an approach to self defense; this is not only smart, but existencially necessary.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

I think the last think Goto would have wanted is for Japan to build up its military. He would certainly not have wanted his death to result in increased militarism anywhere, particularly in is own country.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

No no no! Goto's dead was tragic but let's not do anything stupid.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

America is also made up of various kinds of people of every race who speak every language.

Excellent, excellent point, sir.

The Japanese would be spotted miles away as they enter any foreign areas with their ubiquitous white hard hats, glowing red light sticks and yellow reflective vests.

No, seriously, for the Japanese to be able to work covertly, abroad, you'd need different kinds of people that would appear to belong there not all Japanese can pass themselves off as journos, businessmen or aid workers, right. Blending in is just one of the many problems, and, as others mention, I don't believe for a second that any Japanese force is trained well enough to be able to pull off a quick, well-executed rescue mission in a foreign country with all what that entails. Not without years of actual training.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

What price the narcissism of an armed affluenza victim?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

sangetsu03Feb. 02, 2015 - 08:28AM JST Good luck, Japan isn't close to having the infrastucture necessary for an intermstional rescue force.

Any action a Japanese team would take would obviously be in conjunction with full U.S. support. One of the benefits our allies have in having shared goals and opponents.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Designated Special Forces, takes time to train. Japan's Special Forces are trained for domestic use. Not overseas deployment ie no intelligence gathering, long haul capability, or strategic placement in the region, integrated arms, air sea , a designated command control. It took the U.S. ten years after the failed Iran rescue mission to have a tear 1 capability. Japan does not have this

6 ( +8 / -2 )

...adding preparations would be a deterrent against terrorist acts.

No.

Only a person with an insular mind can utter such sentences. I don't believe these crazies would be "deterred" by an preparations made by Japan to send troops abroad. What would happen is only more mayhem, and if there are any level-headed people left in Japan, they'll stop crazy ideas like this from being brought to reality. Problem is, I am not sure with the current people in power. Japan seem to flirt more and more with the idea of militarizing and going more proactive (militarily) allthewile they (and the Americans, mind you) miss the fact that they don't fight countries with armies anymore. As someone so brilliantly put it in another thread, they fight ideas and concepts.

I keep thinking of that old kids story about the sun and the wind, fighting over who could get the coat off the man...

http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/60.html

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Good luck, Japan isn't close to having the infrastucture necessary for an intermstional rescue force. One simply doesn't fly a group of soldiers from Japan to a distant continent, and tell them to rescue someone. Besides the helicopters (which Japan has) it needs aircraft to carry the helicopters, a place to land these helicopters, assemble them, fuel and maintain them. Japan also needs to know where their hostages are being kept, which requires an intelligence system which Japan doesn't have, and would require more time and expense than building planes and helicopters. America and other allies share little intelligence with Japan, because this information generally gets leaked out by the Japanese. A US Army or Navy rescue force has several teams of soldiers who are supported by thousands of other personel, and countless vehicles. They also have bases on every continent, and a solid intelligence infrastructure. America is also made up of various kinds of people of every race who speak every language. Japan has almost none of these resources.

If Abe has two or three billiion dollars, and a decade or so of time, he can set up such a force, but he doesn't have the money, it would ne cheaper just to pay the ransoms as they occur.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

At one time Japan would have sent an expeditionary force to lay waste to some mud peoples' land that provoked and insulted them like this, but this military capability and political will is long gone. Japan depends upon the Americans for its muscle today and it is not at all clear who's side they are really on when it comes to moslem terrorists and the Caliphate...

1 ( +8 / -7 )

It is not only natural but in today's world, necessary for Japan to have ability to send SF for rescue operations if needed. Back in 1977 W.Germany faced the same question when Lufthansa Flight 181 was highjacked and forced to land in Mogadishu, The fact that the plane, a German national flag carrier, was in a country that could not provide the necessary assets to resolve the situation dictated W,Germany's decision to send GSG 9 to Mogadishu. That Japan needs this capability is not rocket science and objectionable to only the usual devout anti-JP crowd and Abe haters.

KildogDadFeb. 02, 2015 - 07:40AM JST Do the SDF have an equivalent to special forces?

Yes in Funabashi Chiba. The Japan Special Forces Group, a JGSDF counter-terrorism unit.

-1 ( +15 / -15 )

Abe is right.

It's time to get Japan in the game.

You have served your time and now it's your chance to see if you can use your military forces responsibly.

Fly alongside the American Eagle. Bring the pain.....oopps I mean Crane! (In reference to JAL airlines bird)

-19 ( +10 / -29 )

You need a real army/soldiers/soldiers of fortune to consider that.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Why should Japan wait until they're attacked?! IS has already shown its affinity for killing and have blatantly told the world that they will slaughter all Japanese they find! If I were Abe, I'd be capitalizing on these beheadings too! I'll be damned if I'm going to wait for more of my people to be killed in such an inhumane manner, no, I would send my army to tear down IS!

-15 ( +14 / -28 )

By the gods, no. The SDF are basically a combination disaster relief service and Border Patrol. Trying to pull off highly dynamic combat operations in a complex hostile foreign environment is going to overwhelm them immediately. Japanese today are too insular, naive and inflexible to even begin to handle the constant twists and turns and instant decision making it would demand. Even poor Mr Goto, with vastly more experience than most, somehow believed he could just walk in and talk the Orcs into being reasonable. A rescue mission will simply provide the enemy with hostages and new modern equipment. Japan would be better off paying mercenaries or asking people with real soldiers for help. The SDF is designed and trained for home defense and it will take years to change that, even if some want to.

10 ( +20 / -11 )

Thunderbirds are Go!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Abe isn't stupid. He's a snake-like conniving. Doing his best to manipulate the "hostage" crisis to his greatest advantage. Opportunistic, but not stupid.

6 ( +22 / -16 )

Abe and the government is trying to avert criticisms about their mistake (Abe's inadvertent remark invited the tragedy). On the contrary, Abe is shamelessly trying to strengthen his hawkish intention of changing the peace constition appealing cruelties and dangers of terrorrists. Japanese medias are reporting cruelties of the IS but no criticism about Abe's stupidity.

2 ( +17 / -15 )

"But over time, people will ask hard questions"

Maybe they will ask them but as long as you keep electing rightists, you're going to keep swinging right. I know it must be so confusing.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

Do the SDF have an equivalent to special forces?

7 ( +9 / -3 )

as part of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s push for a more muscular security posture.

This didn't take long: Abe wanting to capitalize on the sentiment of the nation over the beheadings to ramp up his war machine.

14 ( +31 / -19 )

Don't consider it Japan. I keep saying Japan has to stay away from this situation until an actual terrorist attack happens on Japanese soil. Until then keep giving normal support, but no Japanese military action until then in those regions.

3 ( +13 / -11 )

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