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Japan to decide on joining TPP by next month

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"Japanese farmers are vehemently opposed to joining out of fear that food imports would ruin them."

And Japanese farmers would be correct to be concerned.

". . . should push Japanese farms to become more efficient and lower food prices to Japanese consumers."

Prices don't need to be lower. The price structure as it stands helps support a braod swath of society by ensuring people can make a living wage in ways that 20-yen apples can't possibly do.

Japan, like any nation, needs to maintain an acceptable level of food self-sufficiency. With it's current self-sufficiency rate hovering at approximately 40%, the lowest among industrialized nations. A free trade agreement that would essentially result in Japanese farmers leaving the profession because low prices make it impossible to survive does nothing to help Japan maintain the ability to feed itself. Why would anyone insist it hurry this kind of security crisis along?

Just as I don't piss and moan about taxes, pretending roads and police and sewage magically appear from the land of sprites and faeries, I know that paying what some might consider a lot for produce here has not impacted my quaility of life in Japan in any significant way.

Japan IS thinking about its future with its reluctance to hop on board this agreement. Contrary to popular opinion expressed by the gradual Wal-Mart-ization of the free world, it's really not all about making sure people have the cheapest goods in the world, no matter, ironically, the cost.

It's also about ensuring the people who make those goods receive a livable wage for their labors. That can't be accomplished by forcing a country like Japan with its 40% self-sufficiency rating to flood its markets with vastly cheaper food from a country like the United States with a 125% food self-sufficiency rating and food it can essentially let rot in storage due to its over-abundance.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

you willingly pay over $5.00 for a bag of 5 apples? Or similarly high prices for most green leafy vegtables? And that, you believe, is a good "quality of life"?

Had to convert the $ into ¥, works out at round ¥70-80 an apple, Sounds OK to me, though I'm in no position to compare ¥ prices with prices in the land of the $. Yet taking your word for it that $ apples and other fresh fruit and veg are so much cheaper, it seems strange that so many more people there suffer from obesity, spend more years of their lives in ill health, and have death rates from digestive diseases and heart disease that are so much higher. Maybe they're not consuming those large daily quantities of fresh fruit and vegetables, which is strange considering how cheap they apparently are. Is something else affecting their 'quality of life' and preventing them eating healthily?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

zichi - Quite. So cheap fruit and veg don't necessarily make for a good "quality of life".

What worries me most about a US-led free-trade zone is the prospect of having the Japanese food market flooded with unlabelled GMO.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

will be another disaster for Japan.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Yes they can. They need to become more efficient.

The free marketeers refrain. PLEASE explain how a country with labor costs minimum 4x of a competing nation can ever hope to be competitive on commodity prices. It's all about price, and you will never be efficient enough in food production to make up for extreme inequality in land prices and wages.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Japan stagnant economy has no choice but to open it's markets.

What's in it for Japan? Strong outflow of jobs overseas when unemployment is already ludicrously high? More cheap crap like you get at an American Walmart? Slave labor products? Just curious how this benefits anyone who's not a manager, the workers will get screwed.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Only 1 winner USA

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Is there any advantage of Japan signing this agreement ? It seems a maneuver desperate of foxes of the DPJ to please the Americans.What the mass media not discloses is that not only farmers but banks, insurers will be severely impaired.Will be a nice gift,but how to explain the American friends relocation Futenma base is unlikely

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This is just an excuse for USA to force genetically modified foods on Japan. Don't Join ! If it was only between countries like New Zealand, Australia, Chile etc., it would be a good agreement as foods from those countries are much safer and not controlled by the likes of Monsanto.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

At zichi

I agree with you on Monsanto and GM foods but don't use 3/11 as an excuse. 3/11 has only made Japan stronger and the full scope of the TPP is greater than just agriculture. Agriculture is not going pull Japan out of these economic times but rather large industrial players like Sharp, who is pressing forwards for the TPP, will. EVERYONE including agriculture will suffer if the economy continues to spiral downward as consumer spending dwindles.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"Anyway, why is Japan happy to move manufacturing overseas and not farm jobs? And don't mention food sufficiency. Japan never had and never will. In any case it's not important."

Global security experts would strongly disagree with you . . . Respectfully, of course.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Wait a couple of or few years and see the effects the TPP has on South Korea and the other countries. Then make a decision after seeing some of the results of this "experiment".

1 ( +1 / -0 )

LFRAgain

I have to totally agree with all your posts.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

herefornow LFRAgain -- I doubt that. Since you know so much about food/diet, I presume you know that most experts agree that people should consume large daily quantities of fresh fruits and vegtables --etc, etc,

You are obviously comparing Japanese food prices to your own country and currency. I often compare prices to my own country prices, but I am in Japan and have to accept living in this economy structure. Actually, a lot of foods have dropped in price over here and if you look around there is a lot of cheaper food to be found.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Herefornow,

"If that didn't exist, the economics of the one hectacre farms would disppear, because they would be forced tocombine/rationalize. Which is the whole point. Japan continuing to support a feudal system is foolish."

You provide absolutely no basis or proof for these claims.

And you can disagree with me all you'd like, but I eat plenty of fruits and veggies on a daily basis and my quality of life is quite fine, thank you. A bit presumptuous of you to claim otherwise, not being me, don't you think?

"It has nothing to do with economics or sustainability, but everything to do with entrenched interests like the JA and the Agriculture Ministry and the disproportionate voting power they control."

No, it has more to do with food self-sustainability. Sure, you'll get no argument from me about JA having a headlock on the agricultural industry in Japan. But being a government entity (I have many friends who work for JA) it certainly isn't for profit, a point which certainly lessens the impact of any suggestions of grift or corruption.

At the end of the day, you want to pay unreasonably low prices for food in Japan. And Japan's taking the reasonable position that to make this so would significantly damage a CRUCIAL economic and manufacturing sector of society. Again, it's not all about 20-yen apples. The people who bring those apples to market, from the farms to the packing plants to the markets, have every right and reasonable expectation to recieve a decent wage for their work. Free trade agreements like the TPP would make that difficult if not impossible, considering the vast differences between the players at the table.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

herefornow

regardless of a ratio of farming in GDP, I think it is essential for all countries to be able to sustain themselves by their own food to some extents.

exports accounts for about 10% of Japan's GDP, not so much.

China and Korea, which are the second and third largest countries as designation for export, don't and won't take part in the TPP.

there are other ways to promote exports. For example, Korea chose the FTA to preserve their framing industry.

in the future, I'm negative about the competitiveness of Japan's industry. Korea and Taiwan now create similar products at far less price.

But I'm not so familiar with the economy. If what I say is wrong, please let me know.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Regardless of a ratio of farming in GDP, I think it is essential for all countries to be able to sustain themselves by their own food to some extents.

Opening their borders will actually revive Japanese farming.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

pro-TPP and all the benefits it will bring to Japan, in particular Tohoku. People need to realize free trade is a good thing!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Actually to should push Japanese farms to become more efficient and lower food prices to Japanese consumers.

Go tell that to American manufacturers. People thought Ross Perot and his "giant sucking sound to the South" was crazy, but he was dead right. American manufacturing is not more competitive, it's virtually non-existent.

When Japanese farmers realize they cannot compete with lower priced foods from overseas you think they will become more competitive? No, they will go under, because they cannot possibly compete with countries with very low cost of living and doing business. Places where wages are very suppressed like Peru, Vietnam, Malaysia. How can Japan possible compete on commodity prices? Those farmers won't be able to make a living anymore.

The US sold it's working class soul long ago which is why it has no problem with joining such a block. Japan should avoid getting dragged into that same pit.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

more than 180 DPJ Diet politicians have signed a petition against it.

That's a valid point but I think there some like 722 members of Parliament. And I'm pretty sure there are strong forces behind this TPP if PM Noda is actually putting it on the table. Anyways, Japan is not one to publicly display it's true intentions but with it being all over the news, i think it has a very good chance.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"What's in it for Japan? Strong outflow of jobs overseas when unemployment is already ludicrously high? More cheap crap like you get at an American Walmart? Slave labor products? Just curious how this benefits anyone who's not a manager, the workers will get screwed."

With the overvalued Yen jobs and whole industries are already moving out of Japan and unemployment will increase! Most of the cheap crap at Walmart comes from China (the world's supplier of the highest quality cheap crap!), just like the cheap crap at Japanese UniGlo, Jusco, 100 Yen stores etc! The TPP would only work for Japan if Japanese could get themselves in a competitive mode and get rid of the rampant price-fixing, bribery, pork barrel projects, and general corruption that keep the wheels squeeking along in this country.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Two comments

Japan, by simple observation, doesnot possess any comparative advantages ( mountainous & limited land surface, labor & costs etc ) to give herself any chance of competitiveness in developing the agricultural sector with or without the TPP. Hence, pointless to focus only one side of the coin..should also be seeing into sectors whereby Japan has much stronger advantages ( from Toyotas to Nikons etc.. )

Does it make sense to exclude the BRICS ? Albeit to include countries representing a great variety of extreme scales : the biggest (USA) & the smallest (Brunei); the ( close to) richest (USA) & the (close to) poorest (Vietnam)... etc in short, a whole spectrum of economies ( except USA, Singapore & Brunei ) excluded from other economic entities ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If your numbers are accurate, I don't see how farming in Japan is viable. With these numbers, financially, agriculture would have died off decades ago. Again if this is true, importing food might be a better option as slaving away for a mere annual income of 600,000 yen is just not viable. Let's think sustainability.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

i agree with pawatan part of why there is such a high unemployment rate in the US right now is because companies can hire cheap labor and move overseas.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

zichiOct. 14, 2011 - 01:06AM JST

YankeeX Japan could make trade agreements without including foodstuffs.

Now, that is something I would agree with.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Two years government DPJ and these lunatics are to throw away years of sacrifice of achievements Japanese people.The Japan will be a species of gift obama in elections next year.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Herefornow,

I'm not asking you for evidence of someone having typed something here. I'm asking for proof that would support your assertion that the agricultural system Japan currently employs is somehow inferior to whatever system you imagine to be better. What is it specifically about Japan's system that strikes you as so "feudal"? How exactly would a free trade agreement make things better for Japan?

After all, you are aware of the inherent contradiction in complaining about Japan's ubiquitous one-hectare (10,000 sq meters) plots in the context of being remnants from feudal Japan, aren't you?

As a metric unit, hectares were adopted effectively by Japan in 1951. Doesn't get too much more modern than that, particularly since most of the world also uses hectares to measure its farmland, including the EU. Interestingly, the United States as the world's largest agricultural producer still sticks with the "acre" as a unit of measurement, and that hasn't seems to slow its farmers down one bit.

You complain of inefficiencies and one-hectare plots. Are you envisioning Japan adopting farming techniques on par with the United States' average farm size of 450-hectares?

How, pray tell, is this to happen in a country that is notoriously mountainous, with but 11.9 percent of its land surface suitable for farming (versus 19 percent for South Korea)? Mega-farms are never going to happen in Japan. There simply isn't enough room for them.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Herefornow,

"It has nothing to do with economics or sustainability, but everything to do with entrenched interests like the JA and the Agriculture Ministry and the disproportionate voting power they control.

Disproportionate to what, exactly? If you aren't worried about profiteering or corruption from Japan Agriculture and the Ministry of Agriculture, then so what if they're entrenched and interested? Both JA and the MoA are tasked by the electorate with ensuring Japan has a stable food supply. Why wouldn't they have considerable influence? Why wouldn't their influence be virtually unassailable? We're talking about a nation's food supply here.

If your issue is with JA and the MoA simply having influence, then I want to hear why. Specifics. Details. Reports. Links. You know, proof. I want to know what's so bad about Japan's agriculture system that it necessitates Japanese farmers losing their jobs in droves in order to keep American farmers employed -- aside from you loathing to have to pay 100 yen for an apple.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japanese farmers are really not confident in their own products are they? If the Japanese rice is as special as they think it is, then not only will people here still buy it but overseas customers will be desperate to get their mitts on it!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Free trade is good for everybody in general. But what generally happens (in pretty much every country), the small minority opposed to it will march in the streets, attracting media attention, and the government will lose their will.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Go tell that to American manufacturers. People thought Ross Perot and his "giant sucking sound to the South" was crazy, but he was dead right. American manufacturing is not more competitive, it's virtually non-existent.

In the meantime, manufacturing is moving back to Germany from China when they work out it is more competitive.

When Japanese farmers realize they cannot compete with lower priced foods from overseas you think they will become more competitive? No, they will go under, because they cannot possibly compete with countries with very low cost of living and doing business.

Yes they can. They need to become more efficient.

Anyway, why is Japan happy to move manufacturing overseas and not farm jobs? The farm lobby is too strong. And don't mention food sufficiency. Japan never had and never will. In any case it's not important.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I still don't u derstand how farmers are able to hold a whole nations economy hostile in order to serve their own interest. Go TPP. In my opinion, it's already a sealed deal. Japan stagnant economy has no choice but to open it's markets.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

zichi speaks wisdom

Seems to me, usually when you read one of these "to be decided next month" stories, it drags on forever until it evaporates. Relocation of Futenma. Signing of the Hague Treaty. Allowance of dual family names. Adapting daylight savings time. It's shorthand for some powerful drag pulling back from the boys upstairs, especially the boys who depend on a well-connected rural constituency.

Let's see where this one goes. Hard to call.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

zichi; At the current UK/Japan exchange rate the cost of liiving in Japan is over double that of the UK. If you are buying organic products then taht figure will be higher, In the last few years many organic foods in the UK are almost as cheap as non organic.

I do not mind paying for good food. Luckily where i live i can buy straight from the source for many things. Fresh spuds 100 Yen a kilo, 4 onions 100Yen. Japan is not as expensive as 10 years ago but many things like butter are far too pricey and seem to be price fixed.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Unlike South Korea, J-goverment seems to be always be the last one to make drastic concessions. Korea is already getting head start with elimanation of 2.5 percent in tariffs on autos exported to U.S. Point is Japan really don't know how to make decisions and only think of themselves. If TPP between Japan and U.S. is agreed, then what happens to U.S. auto export to Japan? Will Japan finally drop expensive bogus inspections, modifications and other tariffs to make U.S. cars such as Ford, GM and Chysler products more competitive and affordable to potential buyers?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Much needed reforms on Japanese agriculture is inevitable. Sk did it and its time Japan did too. But this TPP is not about farming. It's about the entry in the overseas market which are vital for the EXPORT driven economy of Japan. NOT AGRICULTURE! If the economy continues this downward spiral, demand for cheaper imported food will grow.

Members of the DPJ are useless politicians who are only interested in protecting their incumbency.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Japanese farmers are vehemently opposed to joining out of fear that food imports would ruin them.

As always. Actually to should push Japanese farms to become more efficient and lower food prices to Japanese consumers.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

zichi; but it all depends on lifestyle and whcih part of teh country you choose to reside in. The last place i rented in the UK was 2 bedroom garden flat in Dulwich, in 2001 the rent was 850 a month then. I could rrenta 2 bedroom house in Licolnshire now with a garage and large garden for 500 a month now. London is too expensive for rents, but food prices in UK are far below Japanese especially for staples.

If you are buying orgainoc from Hyogo mountains you are probably buying from people known our family. A lott of our veg is from there and some others is Kaibara and fukuchiyama.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

YankeeXOct. 13, 2011 - 04:21PM JST

I still don't u derstand how farmers are able to hold a whole nations economy hostile in order to serve their own interest. Go TPP. In my opinion, it's already a sealed deal. Japan stagnant economy has no choice but to open it's markets.

As long as genetically modified and radiated foods are not forced on Japan.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Japan's farmers have already been suffered from bad reputations from radioactive materials. It pose more stress on them, leading to far more decreasing food self-sufficiency. The aim of the U.S is to promote their beef in Japan. Besides, this plan may be pushed by Federation of Economic Organization, which have tremendous influence the politics in Japan. Noda seems to accept the plan in exchange for support DPJ. The cabinet should explain why they decide accept the plan with concrete figures. I don't determine whether this decision makes Japan's economy better or not, but I'm skeptical about the advantageous effects of this.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

zichi; Obviouly not. Unless you lived in a mansion and shopped a Harrods you do not know what you speaketh. I am mostly speaking about food here as well. So 17 years ago wihout inflation you things cost more than now with th current exchange rate? Sorry but not true.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Came here 10 years ago after having first come in. Do you keep up wih current events, exchange rates, food prices? his opic is mosttly abou food and if you really think ood has been cheaper in Japan than the UK in at least the last 3 decades, eitehr your local grocer was ripping you off or you live in a fantasy world. Don't knwow hy you come here saying this stuff so easily proved to be false.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

A trade bloc is a good idea.

One led by the U.S.A. is not.

Not in its current state anyway.

In place of diplomacy, it uses threat and gun power.

As a country, it's not capable of thinking internationally.

It's not capable of leading anything on an international basis.

-4 ( +3 / -6 )

kaketama -- please explain your thinking to me. Less than 3% of Japan's GDP comes from agriculture and the families employed in it. And, the business leaders of Japan are all in favor of the TPP, since they know it will help make the industries that do drive Japan's economy more competitive. So why is the tail wagging the dog?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

I know that paying what some might consider a lot for produce here has not impacted my quaility of life in Japan in any significant way.

LFRAgain -- I doubt that. Since you know so much about food/diet, I presume you know that most experts agree that people should consume large daily quantities of fresh fruits and vegtables -- for a healthy heart, fighting cancer, etc. But these are the things most expensive in Japan. So you willingly pay over $5.00 for a bag of 5 apples? Or similarly high prices for most green leafy vegtables? And that, you believe, is a good "quality of life"? Sorry, but IMO, it isn't. And potentially short-changing someone's health to protect a few rice farmers who live off taxpayers money isn't the long-term solution.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

zichi -- wonderful analysis, but it ignores the biggest issue -- the 700% tariff of rice imports that Japan imposes. If that didn't exist, the economics of the one hectacre farms would disppear, because they would be forced tocombine/rationalize. Which is the whole point. Japan continuing to support a feudal system is foolish. But, please, answer my basic question -- if SK, which faced the same ecomomics, could restructure their agriculture, why can't Japan? Why can't you just admit the obvious? It has nothing to do with economics or sustainability, but everything to do with entrenched interests like the JA and the Agriculture Ministry and the disproportionate voting power they control. And, cleo, as usual, a red-herring argument thrown in the direction of the U.S. which has no value to this discussion. But, more power to you that you feel committed to paying ridiculous prices for agricultural products so Japan can maintain its "island mentality". Let's hope the industries that supply most of Japan's jobs, can somehow manage to flourish in this environment and provide jobs for your kids, so they can pay the same prices for the rest of their lives.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

But being a government entity (I have many friends who work for JA) it certainly isn't for profit, a point which certainly lessens the impact of any suggestions of grift or corruption.

LFRAgain -- huh? Please re-read my post. I NEVER mentioned profit in regards to JA. I simply referred to them as an "entrenched interest" which wields way too much influence. Which they clearly do. I will state again, this argument has nothing to do with economics, or even self-sustainability, except for the JA and the Agriculture Ministry. Those entities refuse to change, or more importantly, lead the agricultural industry in a direction that would make them competitive and allow Japan to join the 21st century. But, still, you refuse to address the central issue, which YankeeX, the previous poster also notes -- how come SK can do it but Japan can't? And, the "basis for proof" for stating Japan has a feudal system in regards to agriculture is in zichi's argument, supporting your case. That being that most farms are like one hectacre and only make a profit becuase of government subsidies and tariffs. No more proof needs be offered.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

It appears many posters here don't keep up with events outside of Japan, so, it is worth noting that the U.S. Congress just approved an FTA with SK. How come SK, which faces many of the same issues regarding agriculture/sustainablility, could manage to see the big picture and restructure its agricultural community to address the changing world, and Japan cannot? Japan continues to be its own worst enemy, and I'm just glad I'm no longer wasting hundreds of dollars a month for food there so the country can continue to bury its head in the sand.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

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