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Japan to propose new fund for former 'comfort women'

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For those who seriously wants to have objective view on comfort women. Watch this video which fortifies Park Yu-ha points and think how hypocritical Korean Government and Chong Dae Hyup are

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jlfAqR8uBc

-6 ( +14 / -20 )

A complete waste of my tax money. This was already taken care of.

-3 ( +20 / -23 )

Political pressure. Repeat.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

a prostitute will never be satisfied no matter how much you pay.

are you speaking from personal experience Ronald?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It is OK Koreans criticize Japan for what Japan did during the occupational days but setting "statues of comfort women" in front of the Japanese embassy in Korea and other places in the world is not a proper way of protests. It is purposely annoying Japan.

-13 ( +10 / -23 )

The Japanese government is considering creating a new fund of about 100 million yen to help former comfort women, the Mainichi daily reported, while other media said the sum would be larger than that.

Okay, Korea will get the money that they wanted, they won. I never doubted they would win, despite what some people can think, I knew Japan will pay again. This time let's hope Korea will use the money for those women. After this, STOP, if Korea doesn't want to embarrass itself more than this. Because, you know, asking for apologies is one thing, asking for money is another. Not even Germany will pay other money to Greece these days, after 70 years WWII is over, even though Greek claims are right to some extent.

-7 ( +11 / -18 )

As much as I dislike J-government officials who deny or water down the actions of the Imperial Japanese military, I dislike the idea that more money is being offered to these former sex slaves even more.

Compensation had already been given to the S. Korean govt back in '65 and they used it for other purposes.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

Look if it brings peace between the two countries and settles the issue let it be I say, just make sure the fund is totally funded and run by the government and not some third party AND make the apology sincere and final!

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Look if it brings peace between the two countries and settles the issue let it be I say, just make sure the fund is totally funded and run by the government and not some third party AND make the apology sincere and final!

It will never be final because this matter is only a political tool used by the Korean government. Do you even know how many countries around the world should still get compensation for past and present wars to their former aggressors but they never complains?

0 ( +11 / -11 )

This time get a signed receipt.

8 ( +21 / -13 )

Unless this fund is accompanied by an apology for "sex slavery" there probably won't be any positive result.

11 ( +17 / -6 )

It's about time that Japan realized what should be done to settle all the issues related to its wartime crimes, not only by compensating the victims but in other aspects, like history education (Japanese history books downplay their country's wartime crimes).

11 ( +21 / -10 )

To the skeptics:

When has Japan ever admitedt wrong or pay out when there wasn't a justified reason for it?

5 ( +11 / -6 )

CrazyJoeDec. 27, 2015 - 08:35AM JST It's about time that Japan realized what should be done to settle all the issues related to its wartime crimes, not only >by compensating the victims but in other aspects, like history education (Japanese history books downplay their >country's wartime crimes).

That's hogwash. Japanese textbooks make clear that Japan was the aggressor nation in WWII that brought destruction and misery to other Asian countries.

-20 ( +7 / -27 )

That's hogwash. Japanese textbooks make clear that Japan was the aggressor nation in WWII that brought destruction and misery to other Asian countries.

What textbooks are you referring to?

14 ( +21 / -7 )

Look if it brings peace between the two countries and settles the issue let it be I say, just make sure the fund is totally funded and run by the government and not some third party AND make the apology sincere and final!

I agree. They could give each of the comfort women 100,000,000 yen (roughly a million US Dollars for those not so familiar with yen), which wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket of the Japanese economy, and it would get rid of this problem. No one would give any credibility to anyone complaining about compensation after that. So cheap to make the problem go away, yet pride has held the Japanese back from solving this problem.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

As much as I dislike J-government officials who deny or water down the actions of the Imperial Japanese military, I dislike the idea that more money is being offered to these former sex slaves even more.

I fully agree with @Speed here. Additional 'hush money' would be very inappropriate, although funds with no strings attached specifically spent on ensuring that these women live out their last days with proper healthcare, food and shelter would be a step in the right direction. Another apology would be a nice gesture, but would not be enough.

Instead what is needed is full recognition by Japanese lawmakers of the IJA's role in operating the comfort women system and that many of the women were sex slaves, a memorial in a conspicuous location in Japan to the comfort women of all nationalities whether they were forced to become comfort women or not, including the Japanese women who were sent to the comfort stations (the 'karayuki-san').

Also, the South Korean government needs to officially recognize and apologize for its role in continuing the comfort women system after WWII and during the Korean War, cover expenses for its comfort women from that era, and add information about its own misdeeds to the high school curriculum.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Didn't one of the poster individuals for that group mention already that they'll always ask for financial compensation but that no number will satisfy?

Related to the topic: http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/39_S4.pdf

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

But it has long maintained that the dispute was settled in a 1965 normalisation agreement with South Korea, which saw Tokyo make a total payment of $800 million in grants or loans to its former colony.

This is a part of the problem too, and while it's a translation it still is a sore point for Korea I would believe. Continuing to refer to Korea as a "colony" is belittling. How many years have to go by before that stops?

Does GB still refer to HK as a former colony? How about Portugal and Macao, UK and the US? Doubtful, the point is it keeps tearing open an old wound by constantly referring to Korea as a former colony. Japan never "colonized" the Korea peninsula themselves, they forcefully imposed their will on the Korean people and government, they "annexed" Korea with the intent of making part of Japan.

It may only be semantics to some, but words do matter, and who says them and how they are said matter, as this issue shows.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

An exercise in futility, if you ask me. No matter where you stand on this issue, a 100 million yen fund, or even one that is 10x that, will not make this issue go away.

To be honest, I think there are too many people far too invested in this on both sides to allow this to be resolved. Not that it will happen, but Japan could have the Emperor issue an apology on behalf of Japan, they could allow the Koreans to write the text in Japanese textbooks to describe this issue, they could stop opposing efforts by Koreans overseas to recognise the comfort women issue, and they could set up a US$ 1 billion dollar fund that is officially funded by the Japanese government..... and yet I don't think it would be enough for the nationalists in Korea that seek to use this issue for political gain.

And, of course, for those Japanese that don't believe comfort women ever existed, at least not as described by Korea, they would opposed the government's action and in the coming years, they would undertake activities and actions to undermine whatever goodwill might be gained from this action.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Meanwhile, people like you are claiming these women deserve nothing. I'd suspect you'd feel VERY different about the issue if it was your own nonna who was raped daily by multiple men for several years.

I think these women deserve RESPECT both from the Japanese government and the KOREAN government. I guess you know only one side of HISTORY and politics. I wouldn't like my own tragedy was used from my government for its games, you know.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

YubaruDec. 27, 2015 - 09:15AM JST "That's hogwash. Japanese textbooks make clear that Japan was the aggressor nation in WWII that brought destruction and misery to other Asian countries. What textbooks are you referring to?

All of the ones in use.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

All of the ones in use.

No.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

that or these women in their late 80s who are still now being accused of being 'greedy prostitutes' (saw that comment an hour ago, was then deleted by the admin)

Are you serious? That horrible comment WASN'T MINE!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Heckleberry: you are dishonest, I never called the Korean sex slaves "greedy prostitutes", and the ones who believe you are dishonest as well. As a woman, I would never call sexual exploitation "prostitution". If there's some honest mod here, please clear the fact that comment wasn't mine. This user wants to start a flame, this isn't even a normal discussion anymore. His false accusation is disgusting.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Hallelujah!

This is tantamount to Japanese govt. finally accepting that they were involved in setting up and managing the Comfort Women stations whether right wing groups and revisionists like it or not - that and the emperor's indirect request to Japan to be more remorseful and honest and wartime atrocities.

Japan is facing the music and will be respected around the world for this move. Ganbatte Nippon, proud of ya!

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

All of the ones in use.

Your word alone does not support what you alleged in an earlier post as being fact.

<http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Saying that S.Korea used this tragedy's women as a political nationalistic tool (and it's true, you like it or not) is way different than saying "it never happened". Also Greece always used the war compensation topic against Germany as a political tool, this doesn't mean it wouldn't have some good rights in this sense, since Germany never paid properly for the huge disaster it brought to Greece, if you try to inform yourself about this case.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

OssanAmericaDEC. 27, 2015 - 08:22AM JST

This time get a signed receipt.

shonanbbDEC. 27, 2015 - 07:24AM JST A complete waste of my tax money. This was already taken care of.

This will be the first 'time' everyone. J-govt has never given any money to former sex slaves (a charity was briefly set up but it received little funds and none of the money came from Japanese admin.)

0 ( +4 / -4 )

New fund eyed to end ‘comfort women’ issue / Kishida to propose deal to South Korea......Report The Japan News/The Yomiuri Shimbun.

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0002647120

Bullet points....

Asian Women’s Fund ....The fund was established in July 1995 under the government of Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama. According to the Foreign Ministry, donations from the public totaling ¥600 million and ¥4.8 billion from government coffers were used for projects to support former comfort women, including payment of ¥2 million per person in monetary compensation for 285 of them in South Korea, Taiwan and the Philippines. Govt policies for Japan-ROK meeting:

Stipulate in agreement that the so-called comfort-women issue has finally been concluded Maintain stance that “the problems concerning property and claims between the two countries as well as their people was settled completely and finally” under the 1965 bilateral agreement on the settlement of claims for compensation

Establish new fund to expand humanitarian support for former comfort women

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe expresses apology to former comfort women, such as by sending them letters

Ask South Korean side to remove statues of girls symbolizing former comfort women and stop activities to defame Japan Speech

Also worth also reflecting on Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida statement....

I’m ready to rack my brains, do my utmost and sweat, we have been trying to realise the agreement ... to accelerate talks and seek an early settlement. This is part of this effort..... A tad 'urgent' to say the least,

The cynic in me senses more than a hint events are being politically stage managed, choreographed if you will. A prior frame work agreement reached following a formulated communication strategy that will a offer a lasting, unprecedented historical political legacy for both President Park Geun-hye and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. If agreement is reached and I have little doubt agreement will be tweaked to perfection for 'image and identity' to garner valuable domestic support in Abe san case the 2016 upper house elections etc.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

An admission that this DID happen and an APOLOGY with a head to the floor bow !!!!! That is what they want and Deserve NO LESS !!!!!!!!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Put up the money, issue an new apology, and essentially neutralize South Korean antagonism. Will some elements of the South Korean populace continue to agitate? Of course. But Japan's government will no longer have to respond in any official capacity.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

How to determine whom to pay, there are so many from east asia to south east asia.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Will some elements of the South Korean populace continue to agitate? Of course. But Japan's government will no longer have to respond in any official capacity.

They will also lose the majority of sympathizers that they have now. As it stands at the moment, the comfort women have not been compensated. Some people blame that on the Koreans, some on the Japanese, but the fact remains that they have not been compensated. If the Japanese are to compensate the comfort women, then no one could hold the Japanese responsible for their not having been compensated anymore, and many of the sympathizers would not support said elements of the Korean populace anymore.

How to determine whom to pay, there are so many from east asia to south east asia.

All of them of course.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I am assuming this is the latest filed by Takeo Miyazaki

The SK government is reported to be considering the 'removal' of the statue outside the Japanese embassy.

U.S. statement eyed for Japan-ROK settlement........

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0002648293

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What I am saying is these women are victims of human trafficking who are even to this day labelled as 'prostitutes' by some, and here you are trivialising their quest for justice (an unreserved apology from the Japanese government, putting it all down to some shady political game being played by S Korea.

Please remember we have the benefit today of 20/20 hindsight, it is a fact that there were SOME women who were prostitutes, it wasn't just Korean women either, Japanese women too.

However, the girls that were sold by their families for labor were forced into being sex slaves, and how the Japanese view it was that they were paid well for their services, better than many officers at the time, and use that to justify away the issue. It was Korean brokers who "bought" the girls, it was Korean brokers who put them into the whore houses, and it was Korean's that ran them. All along conveniently forgetting that it was the Japanese that forced them into it.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Just throw some money at it -- the J-answer to everything. While some of the women and the government of South Korea are demanding further compensation, I actually believe that compensation is not the answer. What I would much rather see is an official apology, one that goes in the white-washed textbooks, stating that Japan did indeed force the women into sexual slavery (directly and indirectly), and that they are genuinely sorry for the pain and suffering they caused. THAT would end the issue, or else SK would no longer have the world's ear. If it's just money they are proposing they should not be surprised when the issue is not truly closed.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Of course, what may happen after this - and this is what prevented Japan making apologies and given money previously - is that all the other nations of the world that had women kidnapped and forced into sexual servitude (China, Philippines, Singapore, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Australia, Holland etc.) will be asking, 'why only Korea~?'.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Of course, what may happen after this - and this is what prevented Japan making apologies and given money previously - is that all the other nations of the world that had women kidnapped and forced into sexual servitude (China, Philippines, Singapore, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Australia, Holland etc.) will be asking, 'why only Korea~?'.

It would be a valid question.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Would rather officially apologize or give more taxpayer money?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

There is a lot missing from this article, Japan wants to have a list of demands met if this goes through, such as statue removed from front of Embassy, no more claims for compensation etc, BUT Japan isn't indicating it will quit denying sex slaves existed or any consequences for those that pipe up these lies.

I think Japan needs to admit & back all this up. I too don't think money is needed, but if it will put this to rest & BOTH sides agree sex slave issue was real & has been settled it would be a very good thing, but Japan still seems to be holding back some I think, needs to step up some more & show it MEANS what it is kind of implying

1 ( +4 / -3 )

This is a most interesting development and as GW points above not as good as it looks. Japan has no business of making a list of demands with regard to its victims. The statue in front of the Japanese embassy ought be bolted to the ground so that it can never removed to remind the Japanese forever that crimes against humanity can never be forgotten nor in fact forgiven.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

GWDEC. 27, 2015 - 01:52PM JST

There is a lot missing from this article, Japan wants to have a list of demands met if this goes through, such as statue removed from front of Embassy, no more claims for compensation etc, BUT Japan isn't indicating it will quit denying sex slaves existed or any consequences for those that pipe up these lies.

Indeed, this needs to be made public in Japan and included in text books. Is this being reported in in the Japanese media?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

If Japan were being ingenuous in it's expression of remorse it wouldn't make any demands.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

I thought the right wing Japanese will never give in. They should replace Abe with someone much more hardline right winger. Make sure next time around Japanese should blame on the USA for their agression. The comfort women problem became emotional issue after Abe became prime minister. Abe and his cronies are the problem. What the Korean people want is a real and sinsere change of hearts of the Japanese right wingers.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Ossan is correct. Perhaps only Ossan and myself have read the Japanese history books.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

In some ways, South Korea is responsible for making this issue more complicated. They could have settled it by accepting Japan's apology and reparation from AWF in the 1990s. Korean support groups rejected the offer, even threatened some former comfort women who had agreed on the settlement plan.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Abe, Park may meet in U.S. to settle ‘comfort women’ issue.......

Getting closer to that political sweet spot the 'Piece de resistance' so to speak

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/12/27/national/abe-park-may-meet-u-s-settle-comfort-women-issue/#.Vn-F_1LDqMl

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

itsonlyrocknroll DEC. 27, 2015 - 03:36PM JST Abe, Park may meet in U.S. to settle ‘comfort women’ issue.......

President Park has every reason to improve the Japan–South Korea relationship. Park’s approval rating fell sharply below 30 percent, the lowest since she assumed the office few years ago. Almost 60 percent of South Koreans see Park's performances as poor. If Park's government wants to improve the relations with Japan, they need to disconnect governmental relations from historical issues. President Park is facing growing domestic pressure to improve economic ties with Japan. The biggest factor for the worsening business environment is the strained political relations between Korea and Japan, especially in non-manufacturing areas such as tourism, transportation and service. Japan and South Korea needs to promote healing and reconciliation over historical issues and to strengthen their relations.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Very uncreative people on both sides with a very shallow view of life. This is mutually reinforcing avoidance by people who don't seem to care or feel much about the deeper issues. These governments deserve each other but people will also have to be creative and active in the way they engage relationships and history. Forget about the governments making much of a positive meaningful contribution to this issue.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japan will seek Seoul's involvement in final ‘comfort women’ fund.....The Asahi Shimbun editorial view.

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201512270018

sfjp330....I am trying or at least attempting to rise above my cynicism, maybe it is my youth, this feels like a events are building into a 'global event'.

Shallots ..... Interesting, what do you think the government of China will make of this?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

So, will this compensation be available to all six of the serving sex slaves?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Kenjiooi, Dec27,2015. 5:00 JST

Franz Fischer I would go along with your idea that what the Koreans want is a real, sincere change of hearts of the rightwingers. If you ask me , I have gotb the feeling and I am sure I would feel justified in thinking that if Mr.Abe had only said the moment he came back to power three years ago that he would abide by the Kono Statement, we would not have seen such a deterioration in the bilatareal relations wi South Korea; by letting the ultra-nationalistic aspect of his political persona get the better of himself just to live up to the "Make a complete break with the postwar rgeme" self-image, he made his intention known to give a fresh, thorough check to the process through which they came up with the Kono statement only to get a rise out of the Koreans, opening a can of worms. Getting inside his mind, I have got the impression that he could have bitten off his tongue.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Die r hard right a the beginning of the thread has had 4-5 thumbs down, thats a bit steep, i watched the video and it was quite moving. I think its about time Shinso abe stood remove his head from the sand and stand up and says yes we did force these poor woman into this, and although there is no paper evidence to prove it, it happened and we accept full responsibility for the military actions. and hopefully these poor woman get a full apology and some sort of compensation, and the money they were short changed with interest.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Brian WhewayDEC. 27, 2015 - 07:46PM JST Die r hard right a the beginning of the thread has had 4-5 thumbs down, thats a bit steep, i watched the video and it was quite moving. I think its about time Shinso abe stood remove his head from the sand and stand up and says yes we did force these poor woman into this, and although there is no paper evidence to prove it, it happened and we accept full responsibility for the military actions. and hopefully these poor woman get a full apology and some sort of compensation, and the money they were short changed with interest.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Now I'm not normally someone to oppose war "reparation" efforts, but what's the point? It's not going to help them get over it if they still didn't after so many years. I guess it could make their last few months a little easier with te additional financial cushion... but it's not a lot.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Torben PasuchaDEC. 27, 2015 - 08:23PM JST

Now I'm not normally someone to oppose war "reparation" efforts, but what's the point? It's not going to help them get over it if they still didn't after so many years. I guess it could make their last few months a little easier with te additional financial cushion... but it's not a lot.

I don;t think anybody thinks the money is to help these old women, it's the gesture itself rather than the money.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

igloobuyer

Yeah except for the fact that majority of Japanese accounts the fact that many Koreans had been unfairly treated ending to lynching due to bad rumors that had been propagated after the earthquake and even is taught as a warning not to believe in rumors and I have not heard of unfair treatment of Koreans or any other nationalities after the Tohoku earthquake. So give us some link to prove that there had been or quit spreading RUMORS .

0 ( +0 / -0 )

shonanbb: "Ossan is correct. Perhaps only Ossan and myself have read the Japanese history books."

No, it's just you guys that pat yourselves on the back for doing so, when in reality you are just supporting white-washed texts. It's only you guys who believe the lie. How can you possibly say the stuff is in textbooks when Shinzo Abe himself is quite proud of having the sex slave issue removed from texts in 2002? Care to answer that one?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

As far as I'm concerned the Japanese government never officially apologised to - or compensated the sex slaves. But if this money is coming directly from the government, great. A chapter in school textbooks would also be great

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Isthis G8 or G6 commentary. The end of the war is to be one poeple.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Japan just still don't get it. It's not just money. They think throwing money will make the problem go away? Far from the truth.

The SK government is reported to be considering the 'removal' of the statue outside the Japanese embassy.

SK government issued a flat denial, saying Japanese government is playing games again. No such consideration was ever considered since the statue was put up by civilians, and it's right of free speech.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

So Korean pimps were so evil, coercing, kidnapping innocent girls. But who did they work for this time? Prostitution was officially PROHIBITED in 1947(means was leagal until then) in South Korea but HOW COME it still went on within special wards called "Camp Town"? which were managed directly by S.K Government and the end clients were US/UN Troops.

WHAT on earth makes S.K government, Chong Dae Hyup, Korean Major Medias, even Korean-American Federations in US, Anybody here keep quiet about this obvious issue? BECAUSE THEY WERE JUST PROSTITUTES? Do you really believe that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jlfAqR8uBc

Don't bother quoting trite words like"Because others do, it doesn't mean..blah blah blah". We are talking about the same victims, the same wrongdoers, the same system, the same place, almost the same time, but ultimate wrongdoers were totaly different".

THIS is something you must seriously take into consideration unless you are here just to stamp on Japan and Japanese, i,e. Racism.

Anybody who could calrify the difference between the crime you bash right here and the one you always neglect, be my guest.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Asked what they thought about reports of Japan trying to throw some paper pennies at them, the former sex slaves weren't impressed.

"Abe should come and apologize to us," Lee Ok-seon, one of the victims, said at a media briefing at a shelter run by the Korean Council for the Women Drafted for Military Sexual Slavery by Japan.

The sex slaved women and the Korean government also issued separate criticisms of Japanese media printing false stories that S.Korean government is considering the removal of Comfort Women statute.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

United the nations but not the Koreans?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Further quotes from the sex slaved women:

"We want to meet someone in charge who can solve the problem and hear our demands. Unless the Japanese government admits its involvement in forced sexual slavery, we cannot accept the apology."

They agreed that they would not accept any such gesture from Japan if there was even one objection from among the 46 survivors.

They also urged Japan to show sincerity before mentioning any "resolution," such as a fund.

"Even before apologizing, they talk about relocating the girl statue. This is why we think Abe's plan to send a letter of apology lacks sincerity," said Yu Hee-nam, another victim.

"The Japanese government should fully admit to its wrongdoings including operating brothels, drafting young girls against their will to subject them to forced sexual enslavement, which was an egregious human rights violation in history," the group said in a statement.

"The statue does not belong to the council but to the whole country. It is impossible to relocate or remove it."

0 ( +3 / -3 )

While looking at the picture and "confort woman" Lee Yong-Soo, I wonder how old is she now and how old were she in 1945 or earlier. Ridiculous to say the least.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

What many people forget is that German prisons had rooster/shifts for servicing troops and you couldn't get out of if till your shift was up.no compensation, etc = true slaves

NowJapanese, Korean service serviced anyone in the correct uniform.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Lee Yong-Soo

Ad Pillar of Chong Dae Hyup. The most dubious testimony maker. She actually blamed Chong Dae Hyup for freely changing/ manipulating their testimonies before going public. Either Youself or Chong Dae Hyup were telling lies, correct?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The Comfort Women were never "Sex Slaves". US Army Report No.49 from 1944 states that the women were paid military prostitutes. The only scenario where the term would be accurate was in Indonesia and there the IJA themselves courtmartialed the responsible officer, and it was prosecuted at the International Tribunal for the Far East after WWII ended. It is a disgrace and an offense to true victims of Sexual Slavery today to be falsely using the term to further this political issue. http://www.marieclaire.com/politics/news/a3618/diary-escaped-sex-slave/ http://www.soroptimist.org/trafficking/faq.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/07/fbi-uncovers-red-state-sex-dungeon-ring.html http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/07/13/422542729/sold-into-sex-slavery-the-plight-of-african-women-migrating-to-Europe http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/feb/20/burundi-child-sex-slaves-prostitution Ad the worst happening right now...... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/12000148/Islamic-State-sex-slaves-Sinjar-mass-graves-show-what-were-fighting.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/12/sex-slavery-pushes-isil-victims-suicide-2014122313551421512.html

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

What I would much rather see is an official apology, one that goes in the white-washed textbooks, stating that Japan did indeed force the women into sexual slavery (directly and indirectly), and that they are genuinely sorry for the pain and suffering they caused. THAT would end the issue

LMAO. Course it wouldn't. Whiners love to keep whining. It'll never stop. Oh, and take anything other than the official whiner's line in S.Korea and you get prosecuted:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3342334/S-Korean-academic-denies-defaming-comfort-women.html

White-washed textbooks you say? Well South Korea's got some of their own coming:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/13/opinion/south-koreas-textbook-whitewash.html?_r=0

Koreans suffer at the hands of their own government. First, they suffered under the post-war dictatorship, then they never got the compensation that Japan gave their government, then freedom of speech is stifled under an unobjective legal system, then they get their new government-approved version of history...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oh my god, people still deny that this happened in 2015? What kind of delusional fantasy world do you Japanese live in? Your arguments are debunked, its the world vs Japan. Heres a site that refutes pretty much all denialust arguments.

http://fendnow.org/2015/03/debunking-the-japanese-comfort-women-denier-talking-points/

The evidence is quite blatant that women were sexually enslaved by the Japanese military/government. People like Ossan are either dishonest or completely ignorant of history. The 1944 US Army document hes referring does state that the women were paid prostitutes. What he doesn't mention is that the same report states that the women were coerced/deceived into brothels with promises of factory jobs. All of their earnings were taken away by Japanese housemasters(aka slave masters) who placed them in debt bondage(aka slavery).

Ossan left the last part out. Such dishonesty is why no serious academic takes denialists arguments seriously.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japan shouldn't pay AGAIN...anyone can see that if it happens...they will continue on forever...and will probably increase to other demands...not to say that China will probably embark in the same boat...this amount to a shake down...and a direct interference in the affairs of a sovereign nation.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The Comfort Women were never "Sex Slaves". US Army Report No.49 from 1944 states that the women were paid military prostitutes.

Oh and because the US said it makes it fact? The US was guilty of using Japanese women as "comfort women" during the occupation of Japan following WWII, were they "forced" into service, probably from the economic situation at the time but nothing like what happened in Korea.

The only scenario where the term would be accurate was in Indonesia and there the IJA themselves courtmartialed the responsible officer, and it was prosecuted at the International Tribunal for the Far East after WWII ended. It is a disgrace and an offense to true victims of Sexual Slavery today to be falsely using the term to further this political issue.

Oh dont use todays terms to talk about the past. If this is such, then use the Japanese term , ianfu, and stick with it. They were sex slaves, and you want to know why? They had no choice! They were slaves! If they ran they were killed, if they refused they were beaten and raped.

If that isnt a sex slave I dont know what is.

Oh waiting on your textbook reply too!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@WatchingStuff

Ossan probabaly know all of those as people know nowadays that...

the same report states that the women were coerced/deceived into brothels with promises of factory jobs

by Korean pimps

This FeND manual is funny, probbaly created with help of Prof.Yoshimi, but full of obsitane insistence. I even doubt those were Japanese House Owners. House Owners who managed Korean girls were mostly Koreans. I suggest you to refer to the diary of Korean caremanager at burma comfort stations which was found out by Prof. An Byeong-jik for more objective perspective wrt the their lives in Burma

and watch this video how the penninsula had been like from colonized eras through 1980's. It was not fundermantally different in terms of the way women were treated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jlfAqR8uBc

@Yubaru

Oh dont use todays terms to talk about the past. If this is such, then use the Japanese term , ianfu, and stick with it. They were sex slaves, and you want to know why? They had no choice! They were slaves! If they ran they were killed, if they refused they were beaten and raped.

You got that right ! except for they were called "ianfu" too by Koreans even after Korean War through 80's and they got no choice, beaten up by Korean Managers those days and by US soldiers too after WW2

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@DieRealityCheck

The 1944 US document that Ossan quoted states that the comfort women were sex slaves. They were coerced into their position through trickery and wern't allowed to leave(slavery) due to Japanese housemasters who enslaved them via debt bondage.

This was all stated in the US documents he mentioned.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@WatchingStuff

I don't care how you want to read between lines, but No 49 Report didnot use the term "Sex Slaves" but used "Prostitue".

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Coerced and tricked into prostitution, having your passport taken away, not being allowed to leave under threat of violence, all earnings taken away by Japanese housemasters = slavery.

Do you even know what slavery means?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@WatchingStuff

Sure I do

Coerced and tricked into prostitution, having your passport taken away, not being allowed to leave under threat of violence, all earnings taken away by Japanese housemasters = slavery.

Again, I am not interested in your own interpretation of Japanese Prisoner of War Interrogation Report No. 49. There is neiter such descriptions nor "Sex Slaves" in any part of the report. Prove where exactly you find those, will you.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@DieRealityCheck

Its not my interpretation. The literal definition of a slave according to dictionary.com

noun

a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person:

The "comfort women" were coerced, forced to work, now allowed to leave, under the control of Japanese Housemasters, and were bond servents who could never pay off their debts. Thats what the US documents say.

http://fendnow.org/2015/03/debunking-the-japanese-comfort-women-denier-talking-points/

Do you not understand basic English or are you going to continue to argue over definitions?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@WatchingStuff

Just point to where exactly in the report, you find

" coerced", "forced to work", "not allowed to leave", "could never pay off their debts".

I am not asking how "Sex Slave" is being defined by International Law or International Community TODAY. Alex Yorichi would have definetly mentioned the slavery conditions as such in his report if he felt such way. HIs description in the report was a way different from the O'Herne Case in Semarang.

Besides, house masters were running their business and they were not IJA.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@DieRealityCheck

You are arguing semantics. You are arguing against the English language. In what world is someone whos coerced, forced to work, not allowed to leave, and not paid not a slave? Seriously, do you even read what you write?

And yes, the international community including the UN recognizes that these women were sex slaves. Read this if you want the UNs stance on this issue:

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48424#.VoSWOBUrIdU

Japans closest ally Taiwan has even criticized Japan a few hours ago:

http://time.com/4164004/taiwan-japan-comfort-women-resolution/

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@WatchingStuff.

NO you are the one who are arguing semantics, I am arguing about this No49 Report in 1944. Thank you so much for keep dodging my quetion this far and also aadding up another false description like"not paid" which didnot exist in THART report.

And yes, the international community including the UN recognizes that these women were sex slaves. Read this if you want the UNs stance on this issue: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48424#.VoSWOBUrIdU Japans closest ally Taiwan has even criticized Japan a few hours ago: http://time.com/4164004/taiwan-japan-comfort-women-resolution/

So what? none of my particular interest at this point. Taiwanese victims, if they can present evidences, should have every rights to claim for the same compensations.. Hope their testimonies would not be as dubious as those of Koreans

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Why did Korean government hid and deny until 2005 (40 years later) to release a secret file to their own citizens of the $800 millions that Japan paid to Korea in 1965 treaty? South Korea is being duplicitous, to put it mildly. Japan paid. It did so and enjoyed nary a complaint in the immediate years after the South Korean government negotiated in 1965, presumably in good faith, a settlement of the reparations issue. But South Korean politicians with selective memory over the past two decades have taken this long-settled matter and spun it into guaranteed votes at the South Korean poll by glossing completely over the fact that the South Korean government not only received large sums of money in the form of over $800 million in grants and soft loans, over $6 billion in today's dollars but also declined specifically to allow Japan to dispense this money to individual victims of Japan's aggression, stating that it would prefer the money in a lump sum to dispense as it saw fit. Needless to say, none of that $800 million made it into the hands of the slave laborers or "comfort women." Where did that money go? Why aren't South Koreans angrier with their own government for not being able to answer this question?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@DieRealityCheck

In what world is being forced to work, not being paid/having your earnings taken away, not being allowed to leave, and being a bond servant not slavery? You're the one whos arguing semantics. You're denying the very definition of slavery. A slave is, let me quote again:

noun 1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. 2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person:

Typical Japanese double speak. I can't believe you are arguing with an established definition in the English language.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

OMG I bet you didn't toast for 2016, maybe didn't listen to the bells ringing out 2015 either. Thanks for still trying dodging my question. I am focusing only on No49 as I have repeatedly said so. You are aruguing semantics and english definition, which means that you (with FeND manual) interpret the report your way or FeND manual way, and judge, which, I repeatedly said, not interested in.

"Coerced" or "Forced to work" : I cannot find those wordings in any place in the report.

but this

The girls were allowed the prerogative of refusing a customer. This was often done if the person were too drunk.

" not being paid/having your earnings taken away" : Thanks for fine-tune a bit but still girls had 40%~50% left

and this

The "house master" received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. This meant that in an average month a girl would gross about fifteen hundred yen. She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master".

but this

They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home.

While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping

"not being allowed to leave" : I cannot find those wordings in any place in the report.

but this

In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea.

Note it was IJA who took initiatives

So far , I cannnot find any wordings on your list but I rather find imcompatible wordings to your list.

Then "being a bond servant". Yes I find the part

The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master " for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced ...

I have no clue to how those contracts were composed (Do you?) but at least, this part clarifies " to Army regulations and to war" ( this most probably was the same bond applied to IJA soldiers, and IJA soldiers would have been slaves too in a sense, correct?)

I am not sure either, despite possible false representations, if the girls were to repay the debt in lump sum if they want to quit during contractual period.

But this "for the house master"

Now let me take your favorite english definitions for english language user as mother tongue. If this only one factor makes them all slaves regardless any other imcompatible descriptions, OK fine, You win. but they were slaves of "house masters" not of IJA.

If you want to continue, don't bother quoting FeND manual as I know it very well. Have a happy new year.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Heres what the document states:

Coercion

Early in May of 1942 Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.

Deciet

The majority of the girls were ignorant and uneducated, although a few had been connected with "oldest profession on earth" before. The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master" for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced.

Bond servant

The "house master" received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. This meant that in an average month a girl would gross about fifteen hundred yen. She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master". Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles. A regular Japanese Army doctor visited the houses once a week and any girl found diseased was given treatment, secluded, and eventually sent to a hospital. This same procedure was carried on within the ranks of the Army itself, but it is interesting to note that a soldier did not lose pay during the period he was confined.

Not being allowed to leave.

In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea.

Forced to work till the bitter end

It was the consensus among the girls that Allied bombings were intense and frightening and because of them they spent most of their last days in foxholes. One or two even carried on work there. The comfort houses were bombed and several of the girls were wounded and killed.

============

The document CLEARLY states that the women were coerced/tricked into sex slavery by being promised nursing jobs. They were then shipped off to Burma and incurred massive debts from Japanese housemasters for simple things like transport, food, boarding, weekly medical checkups, etc. The housemasters overcharged these girls and made it nearly impossible for some of them to pay off their debts.

These women were then FORCED to work as sex slaves, otherwise they would never be able to pay off their debt and return home. They couldn't just walk away from their job. Do you know what all of this equates to? It means they were sex slaves. Do you not understand simple English?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Coercion =use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance. Dictonary.com

There were no such descriptions at all which point out the act of coercing exist either in what you copy/paste or any part of the report. Do you not understand simple English?

Deceit

It’s known facts many Korean girls were not abducted by IJA but deceived by middlemen/women. The report often refers to "the contracts" and “family debt”. The facts their being ignorant and uneducated does not necessarily mean their parents did not know contractual obligations. Furthermore, the report cannot dismiss the possibilities of their parents being actual signers of the contracts.

Bond Servant =a person bound to service without wages. Dictionary.com

They were paid 40~50%. 750yen left per month still extraordinary good income by then- standards. Living costs incurred wherever they live their life, i.e. hometown in the peninsula.

The same report states…

They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home. While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping The Freedom of going out

Not being allowed to leave.

They could leave once they pay off their debt. There were actually girls who left the stations ( as per other reports enclosed ). Technically speaking, they could quit or simply run away but the family debt remains. The freedom of retirement.

Forced to work till the bitter end

One or two even carried on work there

No description at all that they were "forced "to carry on in foxholes Do you not understand simple english?.

The housemasters overcharged these girls and made it nearly impossible for some of them to pay off their debts

In such case, the girls wouldn’t have enjoyed shopping, dancing, going picnic,dining.

And this again.

The girls were allowed the prerogative of refusing a customer. This was often done if the person were too drunk. The freedom of rejection

"Do you know what all of this equates to? It means they were sex slaves. Do you not understand simple English?"

No, not enough to identify slavery conditions unless you add your own interpretations. This report has contradictory natures in the first place.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@DieRealityCheck Let me ask you a question:

If someone promised you a high paying nursing job which you agreed upon. Then you were shipped off to a foreign country. Then the person in charge takes away your passport, slaps you with a gigantic amount of over inflated debt(transport, housing, food, medical bills, etc), then tells you the high paying nursing job was a lie and that you had to sexually serve dozens of soldiers every day. And to make matters worse, you're not allowed to leave until after you've paid off your "debt" under threat of violence and detainment.

Does this constitute sex slavery? Because according to pretty much every single dictionary, encyclopedia, lawyer, and human rights organization; it constitutes sex slavery.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@Watchingstuff

Let me suggest you, as I repeatedly say so, not to add your own interpretations from somewhere else onto this report. Follow word by word in the report. Alex Yorichi didnot write

"the person in charge takes away your passport"

"slaps you with a gigantic amount of over inflated debt(transport, housing, medical bills, etc)"

"under threat of violence and detainment"

unless you do not understand simple english

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@DieRealityCheck

You did not answer my question. Does the following scenario constitute sex slavery?

-Being promised a high paying nursing job only to end up being forced to sexually serve dozens of soldiers every day.

-Being shipped off to another country and not being allowed to leave under threat of violence and detainment.

-Being slapped with a large amount of fraudulent debt upon arrival and forced to work against your will.

This is what the document asserts. Like I said earlier, according to pretty much every single dictionary, encyclopedia, lawyer, and human rights organization; it constitutes sex slavery. So answer my question with a yes or no.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@WatchingStuff

This is what the document asserts

No that is what you think the documents asserts, what you interpret from the documents.

The girls were allowed the prerogative of refusing a customer. This was often done if the person were too drunk.

Freedom of Rejection existed

They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with

which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home. While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping

Near-Luxry Life and Freedom of going out existed

The only thing I find in the report is false/Imcomplete representation about jobs existed. That is all. Your questions are meaningless

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@DieRealityCheck

The document states the women were promised high paying nursing jobs. They were then shipped off to Burma and forced to sexually serve dozens of soldiers every day, against their will. The women were slapped with an enormous amount of debt and wern't allowed to leave until they paid it off. There was no freedom of rejection. As soon as they landed on Burma, they had debt. Japanese house masters overcharged these women in order to keep them in debt bondage.

Being tricked into sex slavery, not being allowed to leave, debt bondage, and being forced to "perform" every day against your will. Is this sex slavery or is it not? Since you can't seem to answer such a simple question, I'll answer it for you:

Heres a dictionary definition of what a sex slave is:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sex-slave?s=t

sex slave

noun

a person who is forced into prostitution and held against their will

You're arguing against the English language. Every dictionary and encyclopedia in existence would classify the comfort women as sex slaves. One more thing, saying these women lived in "near-luxury" is a strawman fallacy. Many African American and Roman slaves lived in the mansions/villas/estates that their wealthy landowner masters did. Does that mean they weren't slaves because they also lived in "near luxury"? It still doesn't change the fact that that these women were slaves who were forced to work against their will.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@WatchingStuff

"The document states the women were promised high paying nursing jobs. They were then shipped off to Burma and forced to sexually serve dozens of soldiers every day, against their will. The women were slapped with an enormous amount of debt and weren't allowed to leave until they paid it off. There was no freedom of rejection. As soon as they landed on Burma, they had debt. Japanese house masters overcharged these women in order to keep them in debt bondage."

No, it doesn’t The documents does not use such wordings not even synonyms

What on earth is wrong with you? It is not you who should use imaginative interpretation but Alex Yorichi that should have used his ordinary sense of recognitions if the circumstances were as such, who would not have used the term “prostitute” in the first place in such cases.

I repeat the documents does not use such wordings not even synonyms

One more thing. You are the one who uses strawman fallacy. How on earth those African American and Roman slaves are comparable to the girls who lived in actual near-luxury. Think What sort of era was it, what sort of life the people lived in the penninsula. This is something you should use your own imagination.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@DieRealityCheck

Heres what the document says:

Deceitful recruiting

Early in May of 1942 Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.

Job fraud and debt bondage,

The majority of the girls were ignorant and uneducated, although a few had been connected with "oldest profession on earth" before. The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master" for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced.

Bond servant The "house master" received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. This meant that in an average month a girl would gross about fifteen hundred yen. She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master". Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles. A regular Japanese Army doctor visited the houses once a week and any girl found diseased was given treatment, secluded, and eventually sent to a hospital. This same procedure was carried on within the ranks of the Army itself, but it is interesting to note that a soldier did not lose pay during the period he was confined.

No freedom of movement.

In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea

Forced to work

It was the consensus among the girls that Allied bombings were intense and frightening and because of them they spent most of their last days in foxholes. One or two even carried on work there. The comfort houses were bombed and several of the girls were wounded and killed.

==============

So lets get this straight: deceitful recruiting, debt bondage, not being allowed to leave, forced to sexually serve soldiers, etc.

This is EXACTLY WHAT SEX SLAVERY IS. The gall you have to deny this even though its in plain view for everyone to read. Are you going to deny basic English? Here are several different definitions from several different sources.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sex-slave

noun a person who is forced into prostitution and held against their will

http://www.yourdictionary.com/sex-slave

A person, especially a woman or girl, who is confined and is raped, sexually abused, or forced to work as a prostitute. Also called sexual slave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_slavery

Sexual slavery is particular form of enslavement which includes limitations on one's autonomy, freedom of movement and power to decide matters relating to one's sexual activity.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Sexual+slavery

A person, especially a woman or girl, who is confined and is raped, sexually abused, or forced to work as a prostitute. Also called sexual slave.

===========

Are you going to deny this any further? Its only making you look bad. Every single dictionary, encyclopedia, lawyer, and human rights organization disagrees with you.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Forced to work

Because it was in foxholes, that does not necessarily mean one or two were forced to carry on work in the domiciles for the last days”. It could be Colonel Maruyama who dallied with some of them who had been connected with “oldest profession on earth”.

debt bondage

The report says they were bound to Army regulations and to war. So were all soldiers, red-cross nurses, housemasters, caretakers. It’s called “Wartime Regulation” “ Battlefield Regulation” .The contractual obligation to work for certain period of time bounds anybody regardless of the nature of works. Again, they could have quit but the debt would have remained.

This is EXACTLY WHAT SEX SLAVERY IS. The gall you have to deny this even though its in plain view for everyone to read. Are you going to deny basic English?

No it is not.

The girls had freedom of rejection =prerogative of refusing a customer. The girls lived well, amused themselves, enjoyed shopping, picnic, sports events, social dinners, other entertainments like visiting movie theaters. Those environments should not be considered equally or simply as just “Stockholm syndrome”

The contractual obligation to work for certain period of time bounds anybody regardless of the nature of works. Be it prostitutions, nursing jobs, or caretaking. Redcross nurses, or Korean Caremanagers could not leave freely just because they didn’t like their jobs.

Because the false/incomplete representations seemed widely used, it does not necessarily mean their parents, or even themselves were not aware at all what they were expected to do in this case. All the reports said are that

“They didn’t like their job” “They didn’t talk much about their job and their parents”.

Of course there would not be so many who likes “jobs” or proudly speaking about their “jobs”.

She is inclined to be egotistical and likes to talk about herself. Her attitude in front of strangers is quiet and demure, but she "knows the wiles of a woman."

The girls complained that even with the schedule congestion was so great that they could not care for all guests, thus causing ill feeling among many of the soldiers.

However there were numerous instances of proposals of marriage and in certain cases marriages actually took place.

They also mentioned the receipt of "comfort bags" filled with canned goods, magazines, soap, handkerchiefs, toothbrush, miniature doll, lipstick, and wooden clothes. The lipstick and cloths were feminine and the girls couldn't understand why the people at home were sending such articles. They speculated that the sender could only have had themselves or the "native girls".

All these descriptions in the report sound contradictory to the suffering conditions of “slavery”, and hence make ones to question if the cases were actually against their wills.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You just shot yourself in the foot. You do realize that by mentioning "army regulations and to war" you're admitting perhaps the biggest issue the Japanese government tries to deny(that the government and army bears no responsibility).

And no, the comfort women couldn't just quit. Read the report. What part of debt bondage do you not understand? They were indebted and forced to work the moment they landed on Burma. They had no freedom of movement. They could refuse their customers, never pay off their debt, watch as their debt grows, and never be allowed to see their homeland; or they could pay off their debt by being sex slaves (which they were tricked and forced into). The rest of your post is nothing more than strawman and red herring fallacies. A tiny minority of the slaves married soldiers in order to escape sex slavery and this somehow refutes their existence? Some of them received gifts (lipstick, clothes, dolls, etc) and this somehow refutes the existence of sex slaves? Such examples are not refutations but pointless strawman.

Why do you keep denying English language definitions of what a sex slave is? Every dictionary/encylopedia/human rights terminology I could find on the net agrees these women were sex slaves.

============

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sex-slave

noun a person who is forced into prostitution and held against their will

http://www.yourdictionary.com/sex-slave

A person, especially a woman or girl, who is confined and is raped, sexually abused, or forced to work as a prostitute. Also called sexual slave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_slavery

Sexual slavery is particular form of enslavement which includes limitations on one's autonomy, freedom of movement and power to decide matters relating to one's sexual activity.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Sexual+slavery

A person, especially a woman or girl, who is confined and is raped, sexually abused, or forced to work as a prostitute. Also called sexual slave.

http://notabandoned.org/an-introduction-to-sex-slavery-worldwide/

Process of coercing labor or other services from a captive individual, through any means, including exploitation of bodies or body parts;”[2] so sex slavery is the slavery of people for sexual exploitation.

http://www.soroptimist.org/trafficking/faq.html

Sex trafficking or slavery is the exploitation of women and children, within national or across international borders, for the purposes of forced sex work. Commercial sexual exploitation includes pornography, prostitution and sex trafficking of women and girls, and is characterized by the exploitation of a human being in exchange for goods or money.

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/

Human trafficking is the acquisition of people by improper means such as force, fraud or deception, with the aim of exploiting them.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

You just shot yourself in the foot. You do realize that by mentioning "army regulations and to war" you're admitting perhaps the biggest issue the Japanese government tries to deny (that the government and army bears no responsibility).

Excuse me? How so? Not just girls but everybody those days was under wartime regulations. How does this fact link to J-Government direct responsibility?

They could refuse their customers, never pay off their debt, watch as their debt grows, and never be allowed to see their homeland; or they could pay off their debt by being sex slaves

I have never asked your interpretations with your flavor here either.

They could have quit but the debt remains. Trollop regulatory rules enforced in 1900. They or their parents could have paid back upfront money

A tiny minority of the slaves married soldiers in order to escape sex slavery

Nobody asked your own insertion of “to escape sex slavery” here either.

The rest of your post is nothing more than strawman and red herring fallacies.

The girls were allowed the prerogative of refusing a customer But this somehow refutes their existence?

They enjoyed going into town , shopping, picnic, watching movies, sports events, social dining. But those somehow refutes their existence?

However there were numerous instances of proposals of marriage and in certain cases marriages actually took place. But this somehow refutes their existence?

The girls complained that even with the schedule congestion was so great that they could not care for all guests. But this somehow refutes their existence?

They made about 750 yen per month and even sent money through telegram to their parents or requested unpaid salaries after they returned. But this somehow refutes their existence?

Alex Yorichi got impression that they were mere “prostitute” “professional Camp Follower” A few were obviously connected to “Oldest profession on earth” But this somehow refutes their existence?

Of course not but one would not also arbitrarily identify that girls being confined, raped, forced to work, taken away all the autonomy, all against their wills.

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-They were in debt bondage. They could refuse a customer but that would only mean not being able to pay off their debts and not being allowed to leave (no freedom of movement). In other words, refusing all customers wasn't really an option in the long term.

-They attended sporting events and picnics with officers because that was their "job". They had to do escort services as well. Read the document. And how exactly does this disprove the existence of sex slaves?

-Yet another strawman fallacy. Some of the girls were proposed to by horny soldiers, how exactly does that disprove the existence of sex slaves?

-The girls complained about their schedules because they were overworked. I find it disgusting that you interpret the passage as meaning the girls were complaining because they were so eager to service the soldiers.

-The women were lied to by being promised high paying nursing jobs. They were then shipped off to Burma with no freedom of movement. When the women found out the nature of their job (sex slavery), they wern't allowed to refuse their job and leave because they had already accumulated overcharged debt for their journey. They were then forced to work as sex slaves until they could pay off this unfairly accumulated debt. How is this not slavery? Not once have you addressed this fact directly. Heres what the document states:

The "house master" received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. This meant that in an average month a girl would gross about fifteen hundred yen. She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master". Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles.

-The document states that only a "few" were actual prostitutes. The vast majority were uneducated girls who were tricked into sex slavery.

The majority of the girls were ignorant and uneducated, although a few had been connected with "oldest profession on earth" before.

The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.

Dishonest recruitment tactics on uneducated girls which put them in debt bondage and sex slavery. I've given you several dictionary and encylopedia defintions of what a sex slave is. You've ignored them all (because you can't refute them) and instead brought up irrelevant strawman statements (marriage proposals, sporting events, etc). The women were sex slaves, how anyone can interpret the document in any other way is beyond me. Heres the US governments current stance on the comfort women issue:

House resolution 121

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_House_Resolution_121

US secretary of state on comfort women

http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/clinton-says-comfort-women-should-be-referred-to-as-enforced-sex-slaves

POTUS on comfort women

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNKkYNLs2ZE

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In other words, refusing all customers wasn't really an option in the long term.

It’s not you but the girls who were to decide, short term or long term, whatsoever. The girls could have quit but the debt remains. Prostitution regulatory Rules enforced in 1900. If they didn’t like the job, they could have returned or asked their parent to return the upfront money.

They attended sporting events and picnics with officers because that was their "job". They had to do escort services as well. Read the document.

Where exactly in the document, it says “that was their “job””, “they had to do escort services as well”. Title of paragraphs, and number of row. Please.

Yet another strawman fallacy. Some of the girls were proposed to by horny soldiers, how exactly does that disprove the existence of sex slaves?

It is one of objective facts reported in the document to infer how their lives were like and should not be dismissed such easily although one should not assert arbitrarily, like you often do, by this sentence only.

The girls complained about their schedules because they were overworked. I find it disgusting that you interpret the passage as meaning the girls were complaining because they were so eager to service the soldiers.

Then, I find it disgusting Alex Yorichi used the words “care for”.

they weren't allowed to refuse their job and leave because they had already accumulated overcharged debt for their journey. They were then forced to work as sex slaves until they could pay off this unfairly accumulated debt. How is this not slavery?

My understanding is that their journey from the peninsula to Burma was free of charge (as per report No.120)

Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles.

It’s getting annoying how come you repeatedly paste the same sentences (you really don’t have to do this as we are looking at the exact same report). In such case I have to paste the same one too

They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home. While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping.

750yen/per month was actually extraordinary good income those days.

Dishonest recruitment tactics on uneducated girls which put them in debt bondage and sex slavery. I've given you several dictionary and encylopedia defintions of what a sex slave is. You've ignored them all (because you can't refute them)

As I have said from the beginning, it’s not my interest at all how “sex slave” is being defined in English dictionary. Hence I have never tried to refute nor argue the definition itself. I am just pointing out the report 49 itself is not good enough to assert sex slavery conditions as defined by English dictionary.

and instead brought up irrelevant strawman statements (marriage proposals, sporting events, etc). The women were sex slaves, how anyone can interpret the document in any other way is beyond me. Heres the US governments current stance on the comfort women issue:

No parts of valid observations which compose this short report are irrelevant to have objective views. You are relying too much on famous scholar’s opinions. Me, I would not challenge those scholars but would not blindly buy their opinions either.

Alex Yorichi got impressions A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" He was an American soldier of enemy country and was in the position who could have asserted “IJA’s sex slavery” to be reported if that was the cases. He had every reasons to do so really but he didn’t.

And the girls who thought American soldiers more emotional ( means more gentle and sensible, maybe) didn’t say anything about being forced to work against their wills , sexually abused, or any other similar expressions.

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It’s not you but the girls who were to decide, short term or long term, whatsoever. The girls could have quit but the debt remains. Prostitution regulatory Rules enforced in 1900. If they didn’t like the job, they could have returned or asked their parent to return the upfront money.

Read the document. It says they could refuse certain soldiers. Nowhere in the document is it implied that they could refuse the job altogether. They were indebted slaves, they couldn't just pack up and leave.

Where exactly in the document, it says “that was their “job””, “they had to do escort services as well”. Title of paragraphs, and number of row. Please.

Thats because it was their job. They provided sexual and escort services for the soldiers. Go read up on the comfort women system.

It is one of objective facts reported in the document to infer how their lives were like and should not be dismissed such easily although one should not assert arbitrarily, like you often do, by this sentence only.

No, it was a strawman attempt by you. Mentioning that the girls were proposed to by certain soldiers, or that they attended sporting events contributes nothing to this discussion. Nor does it somehow refute the fact that these women were sex slaves.

750yen/per month was actually extraordinary good income those days.

Funny how you conveniently left out the passage after this:

""She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master". Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles.""

If your argument is to claim that these women were paid and therefore not slaves, then you're completely ignorant of what a slave is. African slaves could buy themselves out of American slavery by working in plantations for several years. Roman gladiators could buy themselves out of slavery by winning several victories. Go read up what debt bondage and slavery is because you clearly have no idea what they mean.

As I have said from the beginning, it’s not my interest at all how “sex slave” is being defined in English dictionary. Hence I have never tried to refute nor argue the definition itself. I am just pointing out the report 49 itself is not good enough to assert sex slavery conditions as defined by English dictionary.

In what world is being lied to, shipped off to a foreign country, not being allowed to leave, thrown into debt bondage, and then forced to work as sex slaves; not a form of slavery? I can guarantee you the Japanese government would be up in arms if some foreign country promised thousands of Japanese women a "high paying office job" in Burma. When these Japanese women arrive in Burma, they are slapped with a huge amount of debt and not allowed to leave until they pay off their debts by sexually satisfying the locals.

No parts of valid observations which compose this short report are irrelevant to have objective views. You are relying too much on famous scholar’s opinions. Me, I would not challenge those scholars but would not blindly buy their opinions either.

This is hilarious. This debate isn't going in your favor so now you claim the document is unreliable. Ironically, you would much rather trust a right wing Japanese source written decades after the event.

Alex Yorichi got impressions A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" He was an American soldier of enemy country and was in the position who could have asserted “IJA’s sex slavery” to be reported if that was the cases. He had every reasons to do so really but he didn’t. And the girls who thought American soldiers more emotional ( means more gentle and sensible, maybe) didn’t say anything about being forced to work against their wills , sexually abused, or any other similar expressions.

This is funny because it was your fellow right wing denialist Ossan who brought this document up. In fact, this document is frequently used by denialists to claim that the US government thought these women were nothing more then prostitutes (which was totally dishonest of him). I only pointed out what was actually in the document.

Heres a statement from 464 actual academics from all over the world; mostly westerners(you cannot accuse them of being biased) who've signed their names in support for acknowledging the existence of comfort women. In fact, some of the historians who've signed their names are Japanese.

http://www.japanfocus.org/-Asia-Pacific%20Journal-Feature/4828/article.html

I normally don't appeal to authority but in this case, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of one side. The question is, do you honestly believe you're right and all of these historians are somehow wrong? Denying something thats established fact by 99.9% of legitimate historians makes you denialists the modern equivalent of flat earthers. We have ivy league professors with decades of research on one side, and Tony Marano on the other side.

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Thats because it was their job. They provided sexual and escort services for the soldiers. Go read up on the comfort women system.

Give me any links which specify “amusing themselves” by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners as their jobs, or, they were forced to amuse themselves, will you?

Mentioning that the girls were proposed to by certain soldiers, or that they attended sporting events contributes nothing to this discussion. Nor does it somehow refute the fact that these women were sex slaves.

They were objective facts reported in the document. It is only your narratives that those facts contribute nothing to. Do not cherry pick.

Funny how you conveniently left out the passage after this

Funnier how you conveniently left out the passage before this: They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles

In case you get lost, 750yen/month was after they repaid debt and interest.

If your argument is to claim that these women were paid and therefore not slaves, then you're completely ignorant of what a slave is

Not necessarily. I pointed out, even after monthly repayments, they got left with 750yen which was extraordinary income and the girls could afford purchase luxury items. Not just paid, but very well paid. Probably one of English definition like this drops off the discussion. Bond Servant =a person bound to service without wages. Dictionary.com

This is hilarious. This debate isn't going in your favor so now you claim the document is unreliable.

Perhaps you misread what I wrote? I meant every single sentences are valid observations to infer how their lives were like whereas you cherry-pick only the parts which fit to your narratives. However, if the report contains contradictions to the extent it looks unreliable as whole, one would come to conclusion as it is.

This debate isn't going in your favor

This is just between you and me at this moment, who decides it is or isn’t going to one’s favor.

In fact, this document is frequently used by denialists to claim that the US government thought these women were nothing more then prostitutes (which was totally dishonest of him).

Do you think I don’t know that? So is used by affirmative groups just like you do. So what?

I only pointed out what was actually in the document.

I know that. You are also forcing me to take your narratives

Heres a statement from 464 actual academics from all over the world; mostly westerners(you cannot accuse them of being biased) who've signed their names in support for acknowledging the existence of comfort women. In fact, some of the historians who've signed their names are Japanese.

Do you think I don’t know that? So what? What would be the big deals of 464 signatures. After all, they all relies on works of a handful of scholars like Yoshimi Yoshiaki

It’s funny though, this open letter calls them “Comfort Women”. Nowhere does it call them “Sex Slave”. By the way, does this open letter tell us how NO49 report is to be interpreted?

The fact you often quote some links to other sources proves that the report by itself cannot let both deniers and affirmers predicate one way or the other.

That’s the whole point I have spoken about. Go read up from the beginning of our dialogue.

Alex Yorichi got impressions A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" He was an American soldier of enemy country and was in the position who could have predicated “IJA’s sex slavery” to be reported if that was the case. He had every reasons to do so really, but he didn’t.

And the girls who thought American soldiers more emotional ( means more gentle and sensible, maybe) didn’t say anything about being forced to work against their wills , sexually abused, or any other similar expressions.

Add that none of those girls informed him of harm, i.e, they got forced against their free will, threatened, beaten up, and hence had no other choices but simply obeyed under violence.will you?

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@DieRealityCheckJ & WatchingStuff

Are you guys sitting next to each other?

Just kidding. Very good debate. Enjoy reading your takes from both sides. thanks

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Give me any links which specify “amusing themselves” by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners as their jobs, or, they were forced to amuse themselves, will you?

Did you ignore the part where it states that they attended those services with officers (it was there job)? Not that it matters since attending picnics does not invalidate the existence of sex slaves.

They were objective facts reported in the document. It is only your narratives that those facts contribute nothing to. Do not cherry pick.

You just used a strawman fallacy. What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't refute anything I wrote. Mentioning that the girls were proposed to or that they attended sports events does not refute the existence of sex slaves. Quit trying to detract this debate.

In case you get lost, 750yen/month was after they repaid debt and interest.

Did I say this wasn't the case? Maybe you should re-read my post. Heres what the document says (which you have yet to address):

""She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master". Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles.""

Not necessarily. I pointed out, even after monthly repayments, they got left with 750yen which was extraordinary income and the girls could afford purchase luxury items. Not just paid, but very well paid. Probably one of English definition like this drops off the discussion. Bond Servant =a person bound to service without wages. Dictionary.com

I pointed out that the document states that the house masters frequently overcharged them on food and other basic necessities, which meant very little of the 750 yen they received actually went to them (read the above quote that I bolded). Heres a definition of bonded labour:

======

Bonded labour is the most widespread – yet the least known - form of slavery in the world. A person becomes a bonded labourer when their labour is demanded as a means of repayment for a loan. The person is then tricked or trapped into working for very little or no pay. The value of their work becomes invariably greater than the original sum of money borrowed. Often the debts are passed onto the next generations.

Many bonded labourers are forced to work to repay debts their employer says they owe, and they are not allowed to work for anyone else. Violence and threats can be used to coerce them to stay, and in some cases they are kept under surveillance – sometimes under lock and key.

http://www.antislavery.org/english/slavery_today/bonded_labour/

=====

Heres what debt bondage is:

Debt bondage (also known as debt slavery or bonded labor) is a person's pledge of their labor or services as security for the repayment for a debt or other obligation. The services required to repay the debt may be undefined, and the services' duration may be undefined. Debt bondage can be passed on from generation to generation.

Debt bondage has been described by the United Nations as a form of "modern day slavery" and the Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery seeks to abolish the practice.[1][2][3] Most countries are parties to the Convention, but the practice is still prevalent in South Asia.[1] Debt bondage in India was legally abolished in 1976 but remains prevalent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage

=====

Perhaps you misread what I wrote? I meant every single sentences are valid observations to infer how their lives were like whereas you cherry-pick only the parts which fit to your narratives. However, if the report contains contradictions to the extent it looks unreliable as whole, one would come to conclusion as it is.

Try as you might, you cannot argue with facts. Heres a dictionary definition of what it means to be a sex slave:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/sex-slave

A person, especially a woman or girl, who is confined and is raped, sexually abused, or forced to work as a prostitute. Also called sexual slave.

The 1949 document states that the women were tricked into sex slavery (promises of high paying job), confined(not allowed to leave Burma), placed in debt bondage, and forced to work as prostitutes(aka sex slavery). They couldn't refuse their job. How is this not slavery? Answer my question. Tell me how this isn't sex slavery when it fits the dictionary definition.

Do you think I don’t know that? So what? What would be the big deals of 464 signatures. After all, they all relies on works of a handful of scholars like Yoshimi Yoshiaki

You just used another strawman argument to dismiss decades of academic research done by historians from around the world. What makes you think you understand history better than unbiased, 3rd party, western and Japanese historians? Like I said earlier, denialists are the modern equivalent of flat earthers.

It’s funny though, this open letter calls them “Comfort Women”. Nowhere does it call them “Sex Slave”. By the way, does this open letter tell us how NO49 report is to be interpreted?

It pretty much means the same thing in this context.

The fact you often quote some links to other sources proves that the report by itself cannot let both deniers and affirmers predicate one way or the other.

Did you completely ignore all the quotes from the 1944 document I provided? The fact that you resort to strawman arguments(the comfort women went to sporting events) in order to dismiss the existence of sex slavery tells me everything I need to know about how strong your argument is.

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That’s the whole point I have spoken about. Go read up from the beginning of our dialogue. Alex Yorichi got impressions A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" He was an American soldier of enemy country and was in the position who could have predicated “IJA’s sex slavery” to be reported if that was the case. He had every reasons to do so really, but he didn’t.

I already refuted this. Heres what Alex Yorichi says right after he mentions "professional camp follower"

""The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.""

Funny how you completely leave out the fraudulent recruitment practices, debt bondage, and forced prostitution mentioned in the document.

And the girls who thought American soldiers more emotional ( means more gentle and sensible, maybe) didn’t say anything about being forced to work against their wills , sexually abused, or any other similar expressions.

This is yet another strawman fallacy.

These women were uneducated (as stated in the document) and the majority of them couldn't speak fluent Japanese or English. Most of them couldn't communicate with Alex Yorichi. But thats besides the point, these women have spoken up about being sexually abused. Why do you think this issue lingers today? My goodness.

Add that none of those girls informed him of harm, i.e, they got forced against their free will, threatened, beaten up, and hence had no other choices but simply obeyed under violence.will you?

This is another strawmann fallacy. Alex Yorichi never asked them such a question so obviously which is why its not mentioned.

The document does however state that they were tricked with false job opportunities, that they were placed in debt slavery, forced to serve as sex slaves, and that they couldn't just leave. A textbook definition of what being a sex slave is.

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Did you ignore the part where it states that they attended those services with officers (it was there job)? Not that it matters since attending picnics does not invalidate the existence of sex slaves.

They were objective facts reported in the document. It is only your narratives that those facts contribute nothing to. Do not cherry pick.

You just used a strawman fallacy. What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't refute anything I wrote. Mentioning that the girls were proposed to or that they attended sports events does not refute the existence of sex slaves. Quit trying to detract this debate.

They could amuse themselves, enjoyed all those events even with the presence of officers and men, couldn’t they? That’s more convincing. The girls were not just proposed to but actually got married and that’s more than just a single case. See caps

However there were numerous instances of proposalS of marriage and in certain caseS marriageS actually took place.

The objective facts that they got paid well as much as able to purchase luxury items, that they amused themselves in miscellaneous events even with presence of their detestable vices, that girls might be willing to care for all guests unless congestion was such great, that not just one girl but some girls actually married to those bitter enemies… absolutely have everything to do with fundamental question: Were they really forced to take the jobs? Was it really against their will, despite that some of them might have been recruited by false/obscure presentations? Sure, they have everything to do with your narratives that they were sex slaves.

Did I say this wasn't the case? Maybe you should re-read my post. Heres what the document says (which you have yet to address): ""She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master". Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles.""

Of course, they had to eat. But even after paying for food, they could afford to purchase cloth, shoes, luxury items like cigarettes, and cosmetics, even phonograph. Could it be that masters just made their luxury life bit difficult?

I pointed out that the document states that the house masters frequently overcharged them on food and other basic necessities, which meant very little of the 750 yen they received actually went to them (read the above quote that I bolded).

I suggest you not to predicate like that, unless you were there as Korean caretaker who witnessed their lives 70years ago. They must have had autonomy to decide whether or not to buy cloth, shoes, luxury items like cigarettes, and cosmetics, even phonograph, or to save as much as possible.

See They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles.

How on earth could anyone assert how much of money were or weren’t left with them in the end. Do you happen to know famous former comfort women文 玉珠(ムン・オクジュ、문옥주)

You just used another strawman argument to dismiss decades of academic research done by historians from around the world. What makes you think you understand history better than unbiased, 3rd party, western and Japanese historians? Like I said earlier, denialists are the modern equivalent of flat earthers.

Those 464 scholars have their own research works with all the primary sources scrutinized themselves? or just relying on a handful pioneers to sign on supporting letters? Regardless, does this open letter specifically refer to No49 report or not?

I already refuted this. Heres what Alex Yorichi says right after he mentions "professional camp follower"

Funny how you completely leave out the fraudulent recruitment practices, debt bondage, and forced prostitution mentioned in the document.

No you didn’t. Yes Alex Yorichi mentioned false recruitment process but at the same time he called them prostitute, professional camp follower. That’s about it. He never mention **forced prostitution” in the document. It’s just your guess

This is yet another strawman fallacy. These women were uneducated (as stated in the document) and the majority of them couldn't speak fluent Japanese or English. Most of them couldn't communicate with Alex Yorichi.

So, if they couldn’t speak his languages and thus couldn’t communicate, how could he mention about false recruitment process or what you call debt bondage. How could he correct those information. Your narratives would fail all together then.

these women have spoken up about being sexually abused.

Really? I don’t see anywhere in the document the girls spoken up being sexually abused. Did any one of those 20 girls whom Alex Yorichi interrogated returned and made testimonies? what’s her name? who made such testimonies of being sexually abused?

Why do you think this issue lingers today? My goodness.

I told you I am talking about this report only. Not of my interest to bias the discussion by “the issues” in general.

This is another strawman fallacy. Alex Yorichi never asked them such a question so obviously which is why its not mentioned.

Fine. He didn’t ask as it didn’t look like that, He didn’t ask and the girls also didn’t complain about being forced against their free will, or about horrific brutality either. Both didn’t take place then. The case of these 20 girls at Maruyama Club should be looked that way.

The document does however state that they were tricked with false job opportunities, that they were placed in debt slavery, forced to serve as sex slaves, and that they couldn't just leave. A textbook definition of what being a sex slave is.

that they were placed in debt slavery

that they couldn't just leave

No. I told you. Prostitution regulatory Rule in 1900. They could have quit but the debt remains. They could have left immediate by returning upfront money.

forced to serve as sex slaves

No. Alex Yorichi did not observe such way and thus did not mention such way. None of the girls did not accuse to Alex Yorichi such way. They often enjoyed miscellaneous events. They got well paid as much as purchasing luxury items even after paying overcharged foods and items, and chose to do so. Some girls actually married soldiers. Some girls were willing to care for all the guests visiting if the place was not such congested. Alex Yorichi reported that a few of them had been clearly connected with oldest profession on earth.

I already have answered this case does not fill in all the requirements to define sex slavery as per in your textbooks.

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They could amuse themselves, enjoyed all those events even with the presence of officers and men, couldn’t they? That’s more convincing. The girls were not just proposed to but actually got married and that’s more than just a single case. See caps

Some of the girls attended picnics and were proposed to by horny soldiers. How exactly does this refute the existence of sex slaves? Why do you keep using strawman fallacies? Roman gladiators were also showered with gifts by certain admirers.

The objective facts that they got paid well as much as able to purchase luxury items, that they amused themselves in miscellaneous events even with presence of their detestable vices, that girls might be willing to care for all guests unless congestion was such great, that not just one girl but some girls actually married to those bitter enemies… absolutely have everything to do with fundamental question: Were they really forced to take the jobs? Was it really against their will, despite that some of them might have been recruited by false/obscure presentations? Sure, they have everything to do with your narratives that they were sex slaves

The document states that the women were poorly paid and poorly treated by their housemasters who overcharged them on basic necessities. This is the 3rd-4th time i'm telling you this. The document states:

""She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master". Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles.""

They were forced into sex slavery. They were in bond slavery. They couldn't leave without paying off their (unfairly accrued) debt. The document states:

""In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea.""

The army wouldn't allow these women to leave at will = slavery. They were forced into sex slavery in order to pay off this debt. So why were these women in Burma in the first place?

""The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.""

The document acknowledges that these women were tricked into this debt by dishonest recruitment tactics. Once they reached Burma, they wern't allowed to leave until they paid off this debt. They couldn't choose what job they wanted to do, nor could they refuse. They became sex slaves?

Telling me that some of the girls married soldiers is a terrible strawman fallacy. It in no way refutes the existence of sex slaves. Some African Slaves got pregnant and lived in mansions owned by their wealthy white landlord masters. Does this invalidated the Atlantic slave trade? Historians argue with events rather than strawmans.

Of course, they had to eat. But even after paying for food, they could afford to purchase cloth, shoes, luxury items like cigarettes, and cosmetics, even phonograph. Could it be that masters just made their luxury life bit difficult?

Yet another strawman fallacy. Some(not all) of the women could purchase luxury items. How exactly does this invalidate the existence of sex slaves? Still doesn't change the fact that these women were tricked, taken away from home, placed in debt bondage, forced to serve as prostitutes, and couldn't leave until after they paid off their debt.

I suggest you not to predicate like that, unless you were there as Korean caretaker who witnessed their lives 70years ago.

Follow your own advice. Its funny how you denialists refuse to accept testimony from actual witnesses(the comfort women themselves) as well as this document yet have the gall to say what you just did.

They must have had autonomy to decide whether or not to buy cloth, shoes, luxury items like cigarettes, and cosmetics, even phonograph, or to save as much as possible. See They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. How on earth could anyone assert how much of money were or weren’t left with them in the end. Do you happen to know famous former comfort women文 玉珠(ムン・オクジュ、문옥주)

Your strawman fallacies are getting really tiresome. Being able to purchase clothes doesn't change the fact that they were in debt bondage, the army wouldn't allow them to leave, that they were forced to sexually serve soldiers, and that they had no control over their occupation.

Those 464 scholars have their own research works with all the primary sources scrutinized themselves? or just relying on a handful pioneers to sign on supporting letters? Regardless, does this open letter specifically refer to No49 report or not?

Those 464 scholars come from all over the world and have read varying sources(primary and secondary). They represent the worlds premier academics, historians, and journalists. They certainlly know more about this issue then you or I do. They've all come in support of the comfort women.

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Roman gladiators were also showered with gifts by certain admirers.

They enjoyed picnic, sports events, social dining with, got married to noblewomen? Poor comparison.

The document states that the women were poorly paid and poorly treated by their housemasters who overcharged them on basic necessities. This is the 3rd-4th time I'm telling you this. The document states:

The document also states that they lived in near-luxury. This is the 4th-5th time I'm telling you this.

They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home. While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping

Don’t you see it? Your quote is more than offset and invalidated by this quote.

The army wouldn't allow these women to leave at will = slavery. They were forced into sex slavery in order to pay off this debt. So why were these women in Burma in the first place?

They arrived at Kyoei (aka Maruyama Club) in January 1943. The army issued that order in June 1943. Just 5month later. The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master " for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced The fact the army issued such order doesn’t necessarily suggest that the army confined them, forced them into sex slavery. On the other hand, it could suggest that IJA was not involved in each private contractual process or contractual obligations at all, until the order issued in 1943 June.

Telling me that some of the girls married soldiers is a terrible strawman fallacy. It in no way refutes the existence of sex slaves. Some African Slaves got pregnant and lived in mansions owned by their wealthy white landlord masters. Does this invalidate the Atlantic slave trade?

A forced analogy. Pregnant women living in master’s mansion is the same as marriage?

Yet another strawman fallacy. Some(not all) of the women could purchase luxury items. How exactly does this invalidate the existence of sex slaves? Still doesn't change the fact that these women were tricked, taken away from home, placed in debt bondage, forced to serve as prostitutes, and couldn't leave until after they paid off their debt.

The document states They not Some(not all) Do not twist his statement in your favor. You keep asking how this and that (each objective facts I pointed out) refute the existence of sex slaves. Your argument is entirely based on your own preconceived assertion that they were all sex slaves because you preconceive they were all deceived, unaware, unwillingly forced. You might want to question how could Alex Yorichi refer to as much as 800 women who landed on Burma with each different backgrounds, just by interrogating 20 girls.

Your strawman fallacies are getting really tiresome

So is your self-righteous assertion.

Those 464 scholars come from all over the world and have read varying sources(primary and secondary). They represent the worlds premier academics, historians, and journalists. They certainlly know more about this issue then you or I do. They've all come in support of the comfort women.

Authoritarianism. It’s not necessary when one thinks of No49 report. You didn’t answer my question: Did they refer to No49 report in open letter in specific?

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The document also states that they lived in near-luxury. This is the 4th-5th time I'm telling you this.

"""They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home. While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping

Don’t you see it? Your quote is more than offset and invalidated by this quote""".

How many times do I have to tell you to stop using strawman fallacies? You're not refuting the existence of sex slaves. The document also states that they lived in near-luxury relative to other places. He was comparing how awful the situation was in other occupied areas. They purchased items within the occupied military base they were in. They were still prisoners. Strawman isn't a refutation, its a pointless detraction. Heres an example of a strawman fallacy:

"Some of the survivors of the Hiroshima atomic bomb and the 2011 Tsunami live in "near-luxury". I guess that means no tragedy occurred that day at Hiroshima/Tohoku".

They arrived at Kyoei (aka Maruyama Club) in January 1943. The army issued that order in June 1943. Just 5month later. The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master " for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced The fact the army issued such order doesn’t necessarily suggest that the army confined them, forced them into sex slavery. On the other hand, it could suggest that IJA was not involved in each private contractual process or contractual obligations at all, until the order issued in 1943 June.

The women were deceived by being promised nursing jobs. Why do you refuse to address this?

""The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.""

Furthermore, you're dead wrong about these women being able to leave whenever they wanted to.

""In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home.""

The army wouldn't even allow certain girls who successfully paid off all their debts to leave. Only a select few who paid could. By the way, you said that the girls were allowed to leave if they turned in their advanced payment (completely wrong). Where in the document was this stated? I've read the document at least ten times and now and nowhere is it stated that this was the case.

A forced analogy. Pregnant women living in master’s mansion is the same as marriage?

According to you, the slave lives in luxury, therefore isn't a slave. Funny how your argument works against you huh?

The document states They not Some(not all) Do not twist his statement in your favor. You keep asking how this and that (each objective facts I pointed out) refute the existence of sex slaves. Your argument is entirely based on your own preconceived assertion that they were all sex slaves because you preconceive they were all deceived, unaware, unwillingly forced. You might want to question how could Alex Yorichi refer to as much as 800 women who landed on Burma with each different backgrounds, just by interrogating 20 girls.

Don't try to wrap this on me. You're the one making the claim that since these girls received gifts from soldiers and could purchase overcharged items(at the military base they were trapped in), that this somehow invalidates their existence. So tell me, how exactly does purchasing a cigarette somehow invalidate the existence of sex slavery when the document itself states that these women were recruited via dishonesty, placed in debt bondage, forced to sexually serve soldiers with no option of refusal, and not allowed to leave (even after paying off all of their debt)?

So is your self-righteous assertion.

Apparently, dictionary and encyclopedia definitions are self righteous.

Authoritarianism. It’s not necessary when one thinks of No49 report. You didn’t answer my question: Did they refer to No49 report in open letter in specific?

What kind of question is this? Considering the shear number of historians involved, the amount of research conducted, and the fact that this document is relatively well known; its very very very likely that the report was used.

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The document also states that they lived in near-luxury relative to other places. He was comparing how awful the situation was in other occupied areas.

Indeed. They lived in luxury relative to any other places, not to mention, homeland in the peninsula, even better than Japan, didn’t they. Not just foods, but shoes, clothes, cigarettes, cosmetics, phonograph. Impossible to have in the homelands. Lucky they were.

They purchased items within the occupied military base they were in. They were still prisoners. Strawman isn't a refutation, its a pointless detraction.

Woman cloth, shoes, cosmetics in IJA base? Unlikely. Notorious “Camp Town” you mean then? That's after Korean War.

Don’t make up the story. The document said From here they were distributed to various parts of Burma, usually to fair sized towns near Japanese Army camps.

and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping

Making up your own story is even worse than your favorite strawman fallacy. If 10times of reading are still not enough, read it 11times or more.

"Some of the survivors of the Hiroshima atomic bomb and the 2011 Tsunami live in "near-luxury". I guess that means no tragedy occurred that day at Hiroshima/Tohoku".

Those survivors enjoyed shopping, smoking cigarettes, making up with new cosmetics, happy picnic or social dining in the middle of bomb blasts, under radioactive shower, or under attack of Tsunami?

Or Days passed after terrifying phenomenon, they realized they could survive but they lost their houses, clothes, everything, not to mention foods to live for tomorrow, but still somehow could afford near-luxury life compared to other places, so they amused themselves, enjoying shopping, smoking cigarettes, making up with new cosmetics, listening to music, happy picnic, sports events, social dining?

What on earth is this hilarious example of your so-called strawman fallacy ?

The army wouldn't even allow certain girls who successfully paid off all their debts to leave. Only a select few who paid could.

I tell you again making up your own stories is even worse than strawman fallacy. The fact that the army issued such older in 5months (after they landed on Burma, which even sooner than said-contractual period of 6months to 1year), does not necessarily mean that the army didn’t even allow them to leave (even girls who paid off their debt) nor that the army confined them , nor that the army forced them into sex slavery. Where on earth does the document state Only a select few who paid could?

By the way, you said that the girls were allowed to leave if they turned in their advanced payment (completely wrong). Where in the document was this stated? I've read the document at least ten times and now and nowhere is it stated that this was the case.

Prostitution regulatory rule enacted in1900 ministerial ordinance no.22 I told you twice or 3rd times already. Obviously both Alex Yorichi and yourself did not know nor even care.

According to you, the slave lives in luxury, therefore isn't a slave.

Pregnant women living in master’s mansion is the same as marriage? They married to white masters? Falling in love with them? What was the title of Hollywood movie you are referring to?

You just ain’t getting it. Debt bondage. Right? How come they didn’t try to pay off their debt asap to release themselves from the bondage then, rather than dissipating on luxury items like cigarettes, cosmetics. Debt servant Right? How come they didn’t choose the quicker way which would enable them to reject the jobs all together then?

Did they still want to make up for looking more attractive to their bitter enemies? Business-minded weren’t they. Inbefore ”Even African American slaves made their faces up with cosmetics, which doesn’t refute Pacific Slaves Trade”

What kind of question is this? Considering the shear number of historians involved, the amount of research conducted, and the fact that this document is relatively well known; its very very very likely that the report was used.

What kind of poor answer is this? I ask again, does this open letter anywhere refer to any evidence found in No49 of sex slaves ? Your often resorting to other links like this, proves that you yourself are not refuting me at all. Try harder.

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Indeed. They lived in luxury relative to any other places, not to mention, homeland in the peninsula, even better than Japan, didn’t they. Not just foods, but shoes, clothes, cigarettes, cosmetics, phonograph. Impossible to have in the homelands. Lucky they were.

Strawman fallacy. Not even going over this again. How does purchasing shoes and cigarettes(at the military encampment they were trapped in) refute the existence of sex slavery?

Woman cloth, shoes, cosmetics in IJA base? Unlikely. Notorious “Camp Town” you mean then? That's after Korean War.

You mean territory that was occupied by the Japanese military.

Don’t make up the story. The document said From here they were distributed to various parts of Burma, usually to fair sized towns near Japanese Army camps.and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping Making up your own story is even worse than your favorite strawman fallacy. If 10times of reading are still not enough, read it 11times or more.

Territory that was occupied by the brutal Japanese military who restricted movement of the locals and comfort women. Do I have to repeat this? The document even states that the Japanese army refused to let these women leave. Even some of the women who paid off all of their debts couldn't leave. So much for your claim that they had freedom of movement.

""In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home.""

Making up your own story is even worse than your favorite strawman fallacy. If 10times of reading are still not enough, read it 11times or more.

You clearly have no idea what a strawman fallacy is, if thats your definition. A strawman fallacy = "Some of the sex slaves bought clothes and cigarettes, therefore they wern't slaves". Another strawman fallacy = "Survivors of the 2011 Tsunami watched cartoons, I guess that means the Tsunami never happened".

Mentioning that the comfort women could purchase certain commodities(at over inflated prices) at the military encampment they couldn't leave, does not refute the existence of sex slaves. Your argument would be laughed out of court. Mentioning something entirely irrelevant in order to refute something only makes your argument weaker than it already is.

Those survivors enjoyed shopping, smoking cigarettes, making up with new cosmetics, happy picnic or social dining in the middle of bomb blasts, under radioactive shower, or under attack of Tsunami? Or Days passed after terrifying phenomenon, they realized they could survive but they lost their houses, clothes, everything, not to mention foods to live for tomorrow, but still somehow could afford near-luxury life compared to other places, so they amused themselves, enjoying shopping, smoking cigarettes, making up with new cosmetics, listening to music, happy picnic, sports events, social dining? What on earth is this hilarious example of your so-called strawman fallacy ?

This is just another repeat of what you already wrote. Since you clearly have no idea what a strawman fallacy is, here are some links. Maybe after reading it, you'll stop using such weak "arguments".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

I tell you again making up your own stories is even worse than strawman fallacy. The fact that the army issued such older in 5months (after they landed on Burma, which even sooner than said-contractual period of 6months to 1year), does not necessarily mean that the army didn’t even allow them to leave (even girls who paid off their debt) nor that the army confined them , nor that the army forced them into sex slavery. Where on earth does the document state Only a select few who paid could?

Re-read the document then. The document states:

""In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that CERTAIN girls who had paid their debt could return home.""

The army controlled who could leave and who couldn't. To make matters worse, many women who managed to pay off their debts still couldn't leave. You also mentioned that the women who returned their advanced pay could leave whenever they wanted to. Where was this stated in the document? I can't find it. Did you make it up?

Prostitution regulatory rule enacted in1900 ministerial ordinance no.22 I told you twice or 3rd times already. Obviously both Alex Yorichi and yourself did not know nor even care.

Thats not a part of the document nor was it referenced at all within it. Nor is there any indication that it was enforced. Where was it stated that these women could leave whenever they wanted? And why did the housemasters recruit them via deception if they could just leave whenever they wanted?

Pregnant women living in master’s mansion is the same as marriage? They married to white masters? Falling in love with them? What was the title of Hollywood movie you are referring to?

Many of those pregnant slaves lived in luxury. According to your reasoning (strawman fallacy), that means those pregnant slaves wern't slaves at all. You see how weak such an argument is? Yet this is the only argument you seem to be able to make(and repeat for the 15th time)..

You just ain’t getting it. Debt bondage. Right? How come they didn’t try to pay off their debt asap to release themselves from the bondage then, rather than dissipating on luxury items like cigarettes, cosmetics. Debt servant Right? How come they didn’t choose the quicker way which would enable them to reject the jobs all together then? Did they still want to make up for looking more attractive to their bitter enemies? Business-minded weren’t they. Inbefore ”Even African American slaves made their faces up with cosmetics, which doesn’t refute Pacific Slaves Trade”

This is the 6th time in just one post that you used the same tired old strawman fallacy. Purchasing items does not refute the existence of sex slaves. You also have no idea why or whether all of these women purchase those items or if it was a small minority. Perhaps some of the women who purchased those items were the ones who already paid off their debts(as the document states) yet couldn't leave. Doesn't really matter though since its all irrelevent to this discussion.

It would be like me claiming that ALL OF THE VICTIMS of the 2011 Tsunami didn't suffer economically, because one of the victims bought video games afterwards. Thats another example of a strawman btw.

What kind of poor answer is this? I ask again, does this open letter anywhere refer to any evidence found in No49 of sex slaves ? Your often resorting to other links like this, proves that you yourself are not refuting me at all. Try harder.

I answered your question and the consensus amongst mainstream, unbiased, western and even Japanese historians is that the comfort women were indeed sex slaves. Nowhere in the document is it stated that these women could leave whenever they wanted (the exact opposite is stated). The trip to Burma alone added to their debt so they couldn't just turn in their advanced payment as soon as they landed. They were in debt as soon as they set foot on land. The only way they could pay off their debt and return home was via forced prostitution. Even then, the army wouldn't allow women who managed to pay off this unfairly accumulated debt from leaving.

Do you know what this is? Its called sex slavery according to pretty much every single dictionary and encyclopedia definition in existence.

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Territory that was occupied by the brutal Japanese military who restricted movement of the locals and comfort women. Do I have to repeat this?

That’s right. You got it finally. locals, soldiers, housemasters, any other civilian employees were all under Wartime regulations, which were not specific to girls. Their freedoms of movement were all restricted accordingly. In other words, the girls had freedom of movement as much as other civilian employees did, because they were not treated as slaves. I told you this long before.

The document even states that the Japanese army refused to let these women leave. Even some of the women who paid off all of their debts couldn't leave.

""In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that CERTAIN girls who had paid their debt could return home."" The army controlled who could leave and who couldn't. To make matters worse, many women who managed to pay off their debts still couldn't leave.

Oxford Dictoinary.com

Certain= [Attributive] Adjective: 1.Specific but not explicitly named or stated:

Used when mentioning the name of someone not known to the reader or hearer: In this context, it means that “some (certain) girls had paid off their debt and the army issued orders that those specific girls who had paid…** could all return home.

Certain of = Pronoun: some not all

Your interpretation should be applied when the word used as pronoun and comes with of

i.e., Certain of, Some of

Is this intentional?

What on earth is this ""To make matters worse, MANY women who managed to pay off their debts still couldn't leave""? Where on earth does this come from?

You also mentioned that the women who returned their advanced pay could leave whenever they wanted to. Where was this stated in the document? I can't find it. Did you make it up?

I said the women could have quit but the debt remains. The women could have reject jobs all together by returning advanced money. 1900 prostitution regulatory rule ministerial ordinance 22.

No nowhere was it stated in the report. **This law was neither the result of some arguments, nor some assertions of historians in the debate. It was the fact that such law existed regardless of this issue. You did not know it.

I answered your question and the consensus amongst mainstream, unbiased, western and even Japanese historians is that the comfort women were indeed sex slaves.

No you didn’t at all because this open letter is unrelated to this document in particular Funny you make self-righteous assertion here too. How could you tell they are unbiased in the first place? Some of them are western or even Japanese historians. Does that make them or the letter always unbiased? Don’t forget it is Japanese historians (and a lawyer) who initially called and defined the girls as sex slaves, whom major Japan-expert western historians like Alexis Dudden, are heavily relying on, not to mention Chong Dae Hyup.

Nowhere in the document is it stated that these women could leave whenever they wanted (the exact opposite is stated).

Where is (the exact opposite stated)? Title of paragraph, No of rows please?

The trip to Burma alone added to their debt so they couldn't just turn in their advanced payment as soon as they landed.

Where does the document say so? What assures you that the cost of initial trip alone added onto their debt?

They were in debt as soon as they set foot on land. The only way they could pay off their debt and return home was via forced prostitution.

How could you entirely dismiss the possibilities of the cases that they were aware of the nature of the job, that they didn’t mind or willing to take oldest profession on earth even if the job-representation were not unambiguous?.

Strawman Fallacy

Person 1 asserts proposition X.

Person 2 argues against superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.

Your proposition: These 20 girls were all sex slaves because you think all the necessary and sufficient conditions as defined by pretty much every English dictionary exist in the document, which are (1) who is confined (no freedom of movement) (2) and is raped, sexually abused, (3) forced to work (against their will) as a prostitute.

My proposition: Some contradictory statements keep the document from fulfilling all those necessary and sufficient conditions, and thus you cannot assert they were all sex slaves. (1) who is confined (no freedom of movement): Were they confined? Every soldiers and civilian employees were under wartime regulations, working regulations. Some restriction on freedom of movement were nothing specific to the girls (2 )forced to work (against their will) as a prostitute. Were they forced? Or Was it against their will? There are nowhere clarified statements in the report that they were forced to work as prostitute. Being in debt bondage itself does not fulfilling all sufficient conditions. Not to mention, there were some girls who had been connected to oldest profession on earth, they were well paid. They chose to waste money on luxury items rather than repaying the debt as soon as possible. They amused themselves by participating miscellaneous events. Some were willing to care for all the guests if the place was not such congested. Some even married to soldiers. Alex Yorichi did not feel they were forced and did not report such way. None of the girls reported any damage or any complaints about being forced or sexually abused. And so on.

How on earth can you keep calling me a strawman? I am repeating my argument straight forward, head to head without distorting your proposition at all.

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