Japan to sign agreement allowing arms exports to Vietnam: Nikkei

Septum, what is your military experience? I have first hand experience with British, Canadian, German, US, Japanese and Chinese warships. Only the Japanese build warships to US Navy standards. In fact their ships are built exactly like US ships, just with lower overheads. British ships, despite being all steel (the old story about the HMS Sheffield being aluminum is false, they were all steel, a fact I proved to my satisfaction by sticking magnets to the superstructure of her sister HMS Southampton) have poor battle damage provisions. Sheffield didn't have sound powered phones so when the power failed there was no way to communicate within the ship, gaps in bulkheads for wire runs were not sealed and allowed fires to run from compartment to compartment along with smoke. The ship's fire main was cut the missile and there was no way to isolate the damage so they had no water pressure for firefighting and all of their auxiliary pumps were defective. Meanwhile the aluminum superstructure but steel hull equipped USS Stark took two Exocets and sailed home under its own power.

European warships all have fancy wooden trim, wood paneling and decorative false overheads, all of which are major fire and flooding hazards you never find in US of Japanese warships. Even some Australian ships purchased from the US have added wood trim not found on the same class in US service. Why? False overheads have to be chopped away with axes or chainsaws to get at burning wire runs or to plug broken pipes. Wood fuels fires. You see these on Russian and Chinese ships too. In fact on Russian and Chinese ships you see almost no firefighting or damage control equipment where on US and Japanese ships passageways and larger compartments are lined with such equipment. I have even seen fancy rugs and carpets inside Royal Navy warships. I asked the officer showing me his ship what happens when one of those rugs clogs the eductor of a dewatering pump. He just laughed. When that Norwegian frigate hit that tanker and sank the Norwegians discovered the shaft seals were crap and allowed compartments to rapidly flood that were not affected by the collision. Now all of the ships from Navantia are in question since they share these poor designs.

If you study the history of the Charles de Gaul you will discover it has been a very unsuccessful design. For the first few years it had to run props from the old Clemenceau because the original props created a huge vibration inside the ship. The reactors radiated too much and required a major overhaul to add shielding. The ship cannot handle and F/A-18E or F, the cats are too short (75 meters vs 95 meters on a Nimitz class) and the elevators cannot handle the weight of a fully loaded Super Hornet. Rafale is a smaller and lighter airplane.

Just based on what I know as a former ASW helicopter pilot, Japanese subs are far superior to Russian boats. I won't go into details beyond that but most operators consider a Japanese sub to be the next best thing to a US Navy SSN. The European subs are built for European conditions, shallow confined seas. We had a Swedish sub for two years operating out of San Diego. The sub was not able to make the voyage on its own and had to be carried in a ship with a floodable well deck. The ballast system had to be reworked for the greater salinity of the Pacific. They do not have the speed, range or diving depth of Japanese boats. Not even close. The Russian DE boats often lacked air conditioning and internal temps rose as high as 140 degrees C inside them in warm tropical waters, awful for both the crew and the equipment. We would see Soviet destroyers or cruisers towing smaller frigates or minesweepers to the Indian Ocean because their machinery could not survive the voyage there on their own. I have some photos of a then brand new Udaloy class DDG on it's maiden voyage from Nikolayev to Vladivostok. It was covered in rust and the gray paint on the bow was worn completely off exposing the red primer underneath. Kludge, but it was interesting to us as it was the first ship to deploy with Top Plate (an SPS-52 copy). That same day I took a photo of USS Kidd, which had traveled just as far from the US as the Soviet ship was from home and it was rust free and new looking.

Japan's subs are vastly better than anything the Russians are building. Pretty much always have been too. But they cost a lot more and contain US tech the US is loathe to share with just anyone. Australia is ok, Vietnam not so much.

Citations needed. Russian warships have been in active combat, and proven quite effective in warfare. We never saw any Japanese ship in warfare after WWII.

The USA is already celebrating the 25th anniversary with Vietnam. They already compensate a lot of economic perks to the country. The next step to the relations is an alliance against China, which the US will be willing to provide some technological perks if Vietnam complies. The same old tactic that the USA deployed with China against the USSR. I can see this mile away with Vietnam case, and the US is using Japan as the bridge for that matter.

Commercial ships are not built the same way military ships are. Everything from the design of their water tight doors and hatches, provisions for firefighting and damage control to TEMPEST protections, which are generally absent from commercial designs, differs between civilian and military ships. Commercial ships don't have NBC, Nuclear, Biological and Chemical protection systems incorporated into their designs. 

I don't see how this is relevant to our conversation because I clearly stated that Vietnam would rather buy arms directly from the USA instead of Japan. Vietnam bought the Japanese patrol boats because of a political reason, rather than any military reason. If they want qualities, then they could have bought directly from the USA itself.

As built, FREMM class ships do not meet US Navy minimum requirements. From what I've seen of European and JMSDF warships, none of the European navies including the Royal Navy build ships as battle worthy as the US and Japan.

You forgot that France can build nuclear-powered ships, Germany can build excellent variety of stealth ships (that China and Vietnam looking to cooperate), Sweden builds excellent AIP submarines that have breached through the US aircraft carrier's defense. I don't completely know the technicalities but I only focus on the results and achievements.

In term of combat experience, European powers have experienced and tested their naval strength a lot of times, while Japan didn't. We can't have an accurate conclusion on Japan's battle worthiness for looking at the specs alone.

I bet those technologies will relate to the naval capabilities and shipbuilding. Vietnam already has access to American weaponry market due to Obama's lift of lethal weaponry sanctions on Vietnam in 2016. I would not imagine Vietnam is willing to buy Japanese weapons, unless for political reasons (Vietnam is buying J-patrol boats to help Japanese shipbuilders competing against China), because Vietnam can buy much better weapons from Americans or Russians.

Commercial ships are not built the same way military ships are. Everything from the design of their water tight doors and hatches, provisions for firefighting and damage control to TEMPEST protections, which are generally absent from commercial designs, differs between civilian and military ships. Commercial ships don't have NBC, Nuclear, Biological and Chemical protection systems incorporated into their designs. They don't have water wash down systems to remove radioactive fallout from their exterior surfaces or the necessary airlocks and changing and wash-down stations for crews to suit up and return from cleaning a ship exposed to chemical or nuclear attack. Commercial ships don't have central citadels which are over pressured so any leaks blow air outward, preventing external contamination from entering the vital spaces of the citadel. Warships have hardened electrical systems, special shock and water resistant lighting fixtures, and all kinds of electromagnetic protections from the large powerful radars peppering their upperworks. You have to know what antennas cannot operate at the same time without interfering with each other, and what decks become off limits when certain antennas are energized (so you don't microwave sailor Bob inadvertently). All these things have to be learned and not every navy has the same high standards as Japan and the US. It is telling that for the FREMM class frigates to meet NAVSEA minimun requirement the naval architects had to add 300 tons of steel to the original structure. As built, FREMM class ships do not meet US Navy minimum requirements. From what I've seen of European and JMSDF warships, none of the European navies including the Royal Navy build ships as battle worthy as the US and Japan.

Encouraging the idea out war should be considered criminal.

Good luck locking up the members of the CCP. Just two days ago Xi Jinping was telling the PLA to prepare for war. Not preparing for an enemy attack is equally criminal as you are deliberately leaving your people vulnerable to conquest in the name of "peace". The only guarantee you will be spared from attack is a large high quality military force and the credible threat to use it if threatened sufficiently.

They already have the Kilo-class submarines for that matter. If anything, they would rather spend the money to buy the new batch of Lada-class submarines from Russia. Vietnam would gladly accept the technology transfer on how to build an AIP submarine from Japan for a price.

Japan's subs are vastly better than anything the Russians are building. Pretty much always have been too. But they cost a lot more and contain US tech the US is loathe to share with just anyone. Australia is ok, Vietnam not so much.

Encouraging the idea out war should be considered criminal.

Perhaps Japan could sell them some submarines to creep around the fake islands and worry the hell out of the CCP navy?

They already have the Kilo-class submarines for that matter. If anything, they would rather spend the money to buy the new batch of Lada-class submarines from Russia. Vietnam would gladly accept the technology transfer on how to build an AIP submarine from Japan for a price.

Perhaps Japan could sell them some submarines to creep around the fake islands and worry the hell out of the CCP navy?

This will not make the US happy at all. They plan to force a war with China’s neighbors was routed around forcing them to buy US weapons.

i think when Suga visits America after the elections, his state diner will be a cold Macdonald burger and a small portion of fries.

Rest assured the US already knew about this information well before it was released to the public.

This will not make the US happy at all. They plan to force a war with China’s neighbors was routed around forcing them to buy US weapons.

i think when Suga visits America after the elections, his state diner will be a cold Macdonald burger and a small portion of fries.

Great more growth of the military-industrial complex, just what we need in the world to ratchet up the pressure and create more tension.

@Septim

The USA always has a romance with authoritarian regimes. They created the monstrosity known as China, and was responsible for the creation of Imperial Japan. Almost every bad event since 19th century, the USA always plays the role of creator behind every mess in the modern

Yes including the creation of the LDP, as you have noted before.

Technology transfer of Japanese military to Vietnam, likely pressured by the USA. Just like how South Korea received the metallurgy technology from Japan in the 20th century.

I bet those technologies will relate to the naval capabilities and shipbuilding. Vietnam already has access to American weaponry market due to Obama's lift of lethal weaponry sanctions on Vietnam in 2016. I would not imagine Vietnam is willing to buy Japanese weapons, unless for political reasons (Vietnam is buying J-patrol boats to help Japanese shipbuilders competing against China), because Vietnam can buy much better weapons from Americans or Russians.

Vietnam is already one of the major world shipbuilders, so I don't think they lack the capacity of building huge military ships. However, they lack the special access to Western technology that Japan has. For example, China is barred by the USA to purchase any chipmaking equipments from the EU and USA, while Japan can under the direct guidance from the USA. Vietnam aims to master the metallurgy technology of military-grade level that can be used to manufacture stealth ships and submarines. Vietnam has already secured German assistance on this matter but they need the taste of Anglo-American tech, which is the core component of Japanese military shipbuilding. Vietnam can't simply announce its intention of acquiring the American technology transfer because China is constantly jealous of Vietnam. Last time, Vietnam and Japan cooperated on a nuclear power plant project, then China accused Vietnam of building nuclear weapons. If Vietnam is detected of becoming an American ally, China would retaliate through banning Vietnamese agricultural exports and orchestrate anti-Vietnam protests across China.

About the only difference between China and Vietnam is they hate each other. Aside from that they are much alike and not much to like if you value individual liberty, free speech and a free press. I am as inclined to shun Vietnam as China. Birds of a feather who just happen to not get along.

Trump administration is planning to cease sanctions on Russia, so they can plot Russia against China. The USA always has a romance with authoritarian regimes. They created the monstrosity known as China, and was responsible for the creation of Imperial Japan. Almost every bad event since 19th century, the USA always plays the role of creator behind every mess in the modern history.

About the only difference between China and Vietnam is they hate each other. Aside from that they are much alike and not much to like if you value individual liberty, free speech and a free press. I am as inclined to shun Vietnam as China. Birds of a feather who just happen to not get along.

Great news and win-win for the region. It would be great to see Vietnam as a military powerhouse, armed by Japan. Another responsible, Japan-loving nation in the region able to keep the tentacles of Commie China at bay. Huge co-operation between Vietnam and Japan now, with hundreds of Japanese factories set up there, and Vietnam sending tens of thousands of trainees to Japan yearly.