Japan, U.S. defense chiefs confirm Senkakus come under security pact

It's so utterly ridiculous to quarrel over a piece of land.

You would think so, but it's a naïve opinion you have.

Those "rocks" not only extend Japanese territorial waters, but they also are supposedly to have the potential to have rich oil and gas deposits under the seabed there.

You probably haven't read too much history, and just to let you know, people have been fighting over land, ever since they learned how to kill each other.

I suppose you would just "give" the islands to China. Then what? Give Okinawa to China too? Oh how about the Korean peninsula? China "claims" a hell of a lot of land that isnt theirs, now at least. If we were to "follow" your perceptions, we had all better start learning to speak Chinese!

Just open up a Family Mart and Yoshinoya on those islands and be done with it.

It seems to me more water territory would be lost around East China Sea if the Senkakus were taken by China. No doubt China would try more islands and more water territory there until before Hawaii.

@Yubaru

I certainly don't want to become Chinese, I just wanted to make the point that old men never go to war, they send the younger like me while they hide in secured bunkers. As for the Senkakus my position is clear, and I agree with you on that. Cheers. :-)

Japan has had no war for 75 years and ever. Why start a war? It seems Japan fights back if attacked.

China is counting on the Japanese being too timid to defend themselves. Think about that.

 ridiculous chain of "logic". The Senkakus are an uninhabited bunch of five islands and three rocks, seven square kilometres of land in total. I agree that the history of the past 125 years appears to give Japan more right to sovereignty over the islands than it does to China, but it's perfectly reasonable to say that they're not worth sending young men to fight and die for, while being willing to fight for and defend territories such as Okinawa or, more distantly, the rights of independent nations such as (South) Korea.

Negotiation and diplomacy are the way forward on the Senkakus rather than wasting lives in a military confrontation for the sake of a few rocks and national pride.

Aside from the land above the water, possession of the Senkaku Islands grants Japan an Economic Enforcement Zone, or EEZ, that extends 200 miles in every direction from those islands. Within that EEZ Japan has control of the resources, meaning fish, kelp and any minerals like oil and gas. China wants those resources for themselves. That is why they are claiming islands all down their coast and into the South China Sea. They want to claim that EEZ and all the resources within for themselves. Don't be a push over. The Chinese have sharp elbows and are willing to push Japanese aside to get what they want unless they perceive the Japanese and the Americans would be willing not just to fight, but fight effectively to prevent them from taking those islands and the EEZ surrounding them. China is resource poor and hungry. All the noise about their history are just an excuse by China to grab the resources, and no they are not going to negotiate. They will talk and talk and talk then, when you don't expect it, they will take unless you make it clear the price would be too high.

These politicians are always willing to send off the children of the working class to die in their endless wars, but their children are carefully encased in a protective cocoon when and if, which is rare, they serve in the military - usually as an adjunct to their careers and as officers with protected status.

I'm days from 63 but would go in a heartbeat if I was physically capable. A lot of us would. I served when I was younger determined not to let the Soviets impose their barbaric form of government on the US and its allies. I would do it again today to stop the Chinese if I were called. It's not about our age per-se but most of us are too old and beat up from the first time around to qualify for our old jobs. I'd love to fool myself and think I could still pass a flight physical, strap on a helicopter and give the Chinese subs a rough day underway. Maybe make it their last day underway if necessary. But I can't and so younger men and women will have that honor. But I'll give them anything I'm asked to give.

Besides all obvious reasons their is one more, Taiwan also claims them. Can the USA be seen fighting over the Senkakus for Japan and not for Taiwan?

Taiwan isn't sending military aircraft and coast guard ships into Japans territorial waters seeking to enforce their claim on the Senkaku Islands as PRC is. There is no threat of Taiwan attempting to land their forces on them. Your don't need to worry about the US having to chose sides and if you are honest the Taiwanese are not going to try to force the matter. They are perhaps under and even greater threat from China than Japan is. They need Japan on their side. Japan, US and Taiwan need to pull together.

And yes the US would indeed use military force to help the Japanese defend their many island possessions. You can count on it.

If Japan was to just give up and forfeit the Senkaku islands to China, how long would it be before the islands are completely leveled and converted into Chinese Air Force bases.

"why not strike a deal, have the islands owned and shared equally between the two. Something could be the only way to settle the Kuril issue with Russia, share the resources instead of trying to have it all."

Give rogue countries like China and Russia an inch and they will take a mile.

"Problem with China and with Russia is the American control of Japan. Let Japan an island and right away it will be place for American offensive base. China and Russia do not need even more of the American aggressiveness in the area around their borders and shores."

These arguments are straight out of a wumao handbook. The only thing stopping China from annexing SCS, annexing Taiwan and pulverizing Japan is American presence.

What is Suga govt doing ? Start a war with China ?

Pretty sure that defending Japan is not starting a war with anyone. Some people seem to WANT Japan to be at war with China. Settle down and understand the difference between defending oneself and starting a war.

Clarity is sorely needed in the region. The U.S. is there to affirm Japan's rights to what is theirs...

These politicians are always willing to send off the children of the working class to die in their endless wars, but their children are carefully encased in a protective cocoon when and if, which is rare, they serve in the military - usually as an adjunct to their careers and as officers with protected status.

A war over islands or natural resources, neither being of any worth if its coin is the blood of young men and just as so, the deaths of non-combatant or collateral damage. Who dies in wars? Civilians, from infants to the elderly.

That old men, who have never been in combat so easily slip into antagonistic rhetoric with allusions to 'defending' by force so-called rightful claims is the purest form of idiocy. Where are those who come in peace and resolve by diplomacy and agreement matters of state? And why would I or anyone, who are not a member of the ruling class or a profiteer in the upper echelons of corporate industry care which government controls an uninhabited, remote island, be it laden with natural resources or not? Whatever the developed resource produces, it enters the market and is available for purchase be it a Chines or Japanese product. Indeed, China is the assembly and manufacture center of almost all we purchase and it has naught to do with sovereignty. Jingoistic blather is a sleight of hand. The lunatics who foment such policy in the government and the military care not one wit for 'we the people' who are sacrificed on the altar of their ambitions and greed.

With the assurance of Joe Biden on last Thursday, the Suga Government can be sure within the next four years that the Senkaku islands would maintain the status quo.

Within this time frame, unless China is bold enough to go to war, it will continue to be frustrated with the lack of progress in expanding its territories in the East Sea and the Southeast Asia Sea when the US is doing what it could to uphold its freedom of navigation rights in the latter.

People seem to think that talking to China will solve all problems, big mistake. China will do what it wants to do while you are talking. As an example, look at all those tiny coral reefs that they turned in to huge airfields while most of east Asia was talking to them...

why not strike a deal, have the islands owned and shared equally between the two.

Yeah, "one country two systems" is working out so well for Hong Kong. Anyone who believes anything coming out of Chinese officialdom under Xi Jinping is naive in the extreme.

Despite Japan's claim of ownership and administrative control over the islets, ordinary Japanese citizens as well as local fishermen have still been denied access there and around the water. Suga never initiates GOTO Senkakus campaign.

Instead of stopping foreign intruders, the government & coastguards request Japanese people to stay away from the "disputed" areas (and they do so in a more forcible, high-handed manner while they just do nothing effective but keep looking on intruders around). I'm not sure how much they are serious about the sovereignty under threat.

Meanwhile Beijing has just approved legislation allowing "fishboats" to arm for self-protection....

Negotiation and diplomacy does not work with China, South Korea and Russia. That is a problem.

Yeah, "one country two systems" is working out so well for Hong Kong. Anyone who believes anything coming out of Chinese officialdom under Xi Jinping is naive in the extreme. Desert Tortoise

People seem to think that talking to China will solve all problems, big mistake. China will do what it wants to do while you are talking. Paul

Give rogue countries like China and Russia an inch and they will take a mile. EvilBuddha

If Japan was to just give up and forfeit the Senkaku islands to China, how long would it be before the islands are completely leveled and converted into Chinese Air Force bases. Stormcrow

China is counting on the Japanese being too timid to defend themselves. Desert Tortoise

China is resource poor and hungry. All the noise about their history are just an excuse by China to grab the resources, and no they are not going to negotiate. They will talk and talk and talk then, when you don't expect it, they will take unless you make it clear the price would be too high. Desert Tortoise

Japan needs to stand up for itself in regards to these “islands” before it asks the US to stand up for it. Have the MSDF constantly patrol the waters. If they get into trouble, they can call their big brother, the US Navy. P. Smith

I couldn't agree more with the above views!

They are a beautiful set of islets in the middle of the ocean. They are significant marine bird habitats and also for for fish. It’s a shame that all these squabbling wombats are interested in are the natural gas reserves that ‘may’ be on the sea floor around the islets.

Old soldiers,

Don’t instigate young people to rise up and fight a war when there’s no casus belli and when there’s a lot of room for dialog and diplomacy.

are you forgetting that little “ quarrell “ called Pearl Harbour “ , “ Manchouria ? Maybe ??

You must be mistaken. Japan has had no war since world war 2. They love a real peace very much for 75 years and ever. Why pacifists starts a war about such a tinny islands? There are now US military bases in okinawa and all over Japan because of US and Japan security treaty and the US wants to put many military bases in Okinawa (and others) for its own national interest. Japan doesn't start war whatever in the future, however Japan will fight back even without US help if any Japanese territory is invaded. It is not a war at all. It is just recovery.

We do not want lip services to Japan. We want U.S. Forces rattle their saber such as their military planes and ships to patrol the area.

Start a war with China ?

Japan has had no war for 75 years and ever. Why start a war? It seems Japan fights back if attacked.

You can be sure that China will try something in SCS or in East China Sea or in Taiwan Straits as soon as Biden is inaugurated to rile up other countries and test American resolve. The incoming administration should preempt that and sail a few ships from the Seventh Fleet into SCS first thing after the inauguration.

@1glenn

The Chinese are only copying the Japanese concept of territorial rights as demonstrated by Okinotori island, for which they claim a 400,000 square mile EEZ

Don't jump the gun too quickly. There is a lot of room to talk and convince them that their claim to the islands is not based on strong evidence.

China doesn't negotiate. They refused to negotiate with the Philippines when taking Philippine owned islands and subsequently ignored the UN sponsored International Court of Arbitration verdict against them. China just takes what it wants, like Tibet for example, and several other nation's small islands, unless you are powerful enough to deter them from doing so. This idea that you can negotiate with China is laughable. All they understand is the credible threat of force.

China is well aware that it cannot take over the Senkaku Islands if the US and the Japanese government are determined to defend them.

It’s real easy for Biden and his five draft deferments to obligate others to die so he can act together tough. Did he challenge Suga to a push-up contest too? I recall Biden was a big cheerleader for the Iraq War before he thought the US was loosing.

That’s a contest trump didn’t lose, it’s a draw at 5 deferments each.

I recall trump being a big cheerleader for wiping NK and Iraq off the map. It was fairly recently so I’m sure my recollections are correct.

That remains to be seen.

Remember Dokdo Island taken from Japan in the 1950s by South Korea?

It wasn't China who did that, wasn't North Korea or Russia.... IT Was S. Korea supposed ally and democratic neighbor who took land from Japan and never returned it back.

Where was America when this happened? It didn't care. Did nothing said nothing.

In 2015 Barrack Obama was present when Comfort women deal was signed between. Japan and S.Korea, America approved. In 2017 when Korea backed out, what did America do or Say?? Nothing. Zero.

Don’t instigate young people to rise up and fight a war when there’s no casus belli and when there’s a lot of room for dialog and diplomacy.

What is this "lot of room for dialog and diplomacy" you speak of? The islands are either Japan's or they are not. If not then China claims them, and obtw they get all the resources within the 200 nautical mile line around them called the EEZ. China under Xi Jinping doesn't share or compromise and if you think they do, ask the people of Hong Kong how that's working out. What are you suggesting Japan negotiate? An island is going to be some nation's sovereign territory. Most nations do not negotiate their sovereignty.

Desert Tortoise,

The Senkaku issue is not something that is subject to negotiation. But it is still subject to discussion for all people concerned to participate in. In this sense, I say there's a lot of room for discussion to have China's general public and the powers that be remove their misunderstanding.

You can’t act confidently and assertively if you knew what you believe is completely wrong and mistaken.

To Kwatt , are you forgetting that little “ quarrell “ called Pearl Harbour “ , “ Manchouria ? Maybe ??

apart from that, i hope Japan does not really belief that the USA is going to fight on behalf of Japan over these islands ? They might say so as a deterrent to China.

Japan should do better than to run away from fishing boats before asking another countries marines to fight for them

Besides all obvious reasons their is one more, Taiwan also claims them. Can the USA be seen fighting over the Senkakus for Japan and not for Taiwan?

Where was America when this happened? It didn't care

Excuse me but Japan lost WWII and thus lost any right to the lands it formerly colonized, including Dokdo.

China thinks the Senkaku Islands are an integral part of their sovereign territory, and so they send their Coast Guard ships there regularly to protect their sovereignty over them. If the islands are truly an integral part of China’s territory, then they have every right to patrol the Senkaku waters as they do.

You and many others think their claim is wrong and hence want to use even force to stop their illegal activities in the said waters.

I, on the other hand,  think as follows:

Don't jump the gun too quickly.  There is a lot of room to talk and convince them that their claim to the islands is not based on strong evidence.

The Chinese have taken the concept of territorial rights to a whole new level. Imagine, constructing islands in the ocean, and then claiming the territory around them as your exclusive right! Now, that is what I call chutzpah. Taken to its logical conclusion, we could see the entire ocean dotted all over the globe with artificial islands, each one with a national flag, claiming that part of the world for that nation. At least we can't blame the Western nations for this particular brand of insanity.

Why do they talk about only military confrontation first and foremost when there's a lot of room to talk about the history of the islands and hence clarifying sovereignty over them?

In my opinion, China can't claim the islands are an integral part of their sovereign territory on the basis of history and under international law. If China is assertive, they should be convinced of this fact through dialog and diplomacy, not though a peremptory military confrontation.

Separately, U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Thursday assured Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga in their first phone talks that Washington will help defend the uninhabited islands.

It’s real easy for Biden and his five draft deferments to obligate others to die so he can act together tough. Did he challenge Suga to a push-up contest too? I recall Biden was a big cheerleader for the Iraq War before he thought the US was loosing.

Good luck to you with that theory

why not strike a deal, have the islands owned and shared equally between the two. Something could be the only way to settle the Kuril issue with Russia, share the resources instead of trying to have it all. Problem with China and with Russia is the American control of Japan. Let Japan an island and right away it will be place for American offensive base. China and Russia do not need even more of the American aggressiveness in the area around their borders and shores.

It's so utterly ridiculous to quarrel over a piece of land. Look at Nagorno-Karabakh, over 5,000 killed in a conflict over land. While I support territorial integrity of every country, I am all against sending young men to fight and die for a piece of uninhabited land. That includes me being 28. My opinion may not be popular among nationalists but I respect them, so please, respect mine.

What is Suga govt doing ? Start a war with China ?