politics

Japan, U.S. start formal talks on costs to host American troops

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Reducing the financial burnden on the American taxpayer is paramount which is what President Trump has been trying to do. Unfortunately some severely misguided Americans have been too wrapped in themselves and their alter world delusion to understand or appreciate what he is trying to do,

Now it will come back to bite them in the backside if they get their way..

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

If U.S. thinks it is not advantageous for them, they should reduce or withdraw their troops from Japan. If Japan thinks spending more money for U.S. Forces not cost effective, let them go and save money.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Reality Check

Japan is #1 Ally paying the most money for decades compared to everyone else. We cover the majority of the cost.

South Korea pays 1/3 of what Japan pays, and they started payments recently, for decades the Korean did not pay anything.

Japan #1 Has opened dozens of factories in the USA. Employing Millions of Americans, good paying Manufacturing Jobs.

Japan is #1 Purchased the most amount of USA bonds supporting the dollar and U.S. Economy for decades!

Japan is #1 Purchasing Billions of American weapons, many untested or doesn't deliver on the promise specifications.

Does using Japan's land, sea, air for decades count?

Does Japan supporting you in Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, using bases in Japan to project your power. Does that count?

Which country will get hit if you start a war with China? The Shield called Japan (American words). You at 5000 Miles safe across the Pacific.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

This is pointless right now. Both sides should just drag it out until after Jan 20th.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

 Billions of American weapons, many untested

Where do these stories come from? Nothing is sent to the operating forces untested. It doesn't happen. Stories like that come from people who have never even see the stuff much less operated it, have no idea how it came to be so they don't know what went into the test program to show it works. They also chose to ignore all the weapons that fail testing like Non-Line of Sight Missile or some artillery ideas of the Army's and never make it to production (which is a good thing btw), or they focus on the test failures ignoring the little detail that finding failure modes is a big part of the reason you test, test, test and test some more. You want stuff to fail in the lab or on the test range so you can identify the problem and fix it. Most of the big systems have a test program going on throughout the life of the weapon/vehicle/aircraft to keep them up to date and able to deal with evolving threats. Sometimes it takes several tries to get it right, as with JAGM or the original Agile missile that was cancelled but the tech from which informs AIM-9X. There is engineering in there that took literally decades to develop.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

doesn't deliver on the promise specifications.

Example please. Be specific. I doubt you even know what the requirements are for most major weapons because they are usually classified and the people who know aren't blogging about it. Likewise the actual performance of the system. But if you look at history, US made weapons have almost always performed well in combat and certainly better than comparable Russian systems. Western systems haven't been outclassed in combat since the early days of the Korean War. The US has made political decisions that have let their forces lose wars, but their weapons have never let them down.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

 Billions of American weapons, many untested

If anything US arms are overtested. The US military also has a policy of making as much information as possible available to the public, and is very transparent on issues involving military hardware.

All militaries know the inherent issues and obstacles involved when developing anything from a new caliber bullet to a new stealth fighter.

By making information available to the public, the US military are indirectly also showing their technical superiority and problem solving prowess to potential adversaries and rival nations.

Unlike China and Russia, who suddenly announce some “superweapon” that usually kills more of its own operators than the enemy.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

By making information available to the public, the US military are indirectly also showing their technical superiority and problem solving prowess to potential adversaries and rival nations.

True. Anyone can look at the open source budget exhibits each of the Federal Government department must publish as a matter of public law and see how many of each kind of weapon, ship, airplane, armored vehicle, etc the US has bought and how many more it plans to produce. Procurement documents on these public sites will even show production schedules going out five years. Some missiles are produced in the tens of thousands. Even fairly complex and expensive cruise missiles are often produced in quantities of many thousands. Any enemy considering a war with the US has to consider the vast stockpile of ordnance the US has available, then count their own inventory of weapons and weigh their chances of success. Plus there are the black programs that don't make the public budget exhibits.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The total costs of America for its foreign bases and troops is only about $20-$25 billion. Closing them down and returning the troops stateside wouldn't save much money.

By most accounts having to move US forces from foreign bases to bases on US soil would cost a great deal more than is currently spent to support those same forces abroad.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Charge them the normal market price or evict them.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Japan pays 200 billion yen ($1.9 billion) annually to have occupation forces-turned "invited guests" stay here forever? Nonsense. Lol.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Instead of making a small list of convinient numbers, the fact is Japan is a US colony and therefore must pay for colonial army. It is decades now and it is not fair that JP tax payers and citizens are still punished for what a few idiotic families did and failed last century. 

This. Japan is a peaceful country now. Let the people go. And if you’re Japan why wouldn’t you want to develop your own security system?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Total and complete waste of money. If this money were spent on peace making activities there would be no need for what is laughingly called "defence."

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Trump wants to more than double the payments, so as to make a profit on the arrangement. Biden adheres to the traditional American view that if the host nation pays about half the cost, that is a good deal for both countries. It makes sense for the Japanese negotiators to delay any final agreement until Trump is gone.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Whatever Japan pays should be fully invested into the defense of Japan in the region. These monies will be best served here rather than sending it back to D.C. This is simply the best strategy for all concerned...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

rdemers,

The money doesn't go directly to the U.S. coffers. But it's all the same anyway. The money, which is known generally as "sympathy budget" in Japan, is payment to Japanese base workers, utilities and other base maintenance costs. The money should be paid by the U.S. side per se because it's they who're using bases for free.

Can Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Sony in the U.S. demand the U.S. government pay their U.S. workers' salaries, utilities and other maintenance costs for them, saying they are contributing to U.S. economy?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

South Korea pays 1/3 of what Japan pays, and they started payments recently, for decades the Korean did not pay anything.

Unlike the Japanese, Koreans have the balls to say no at foreign invaders. They may be weak and docile but they are braver than any Japanese leader or Japanese fake nationalist in the Wa island.

Last time, the Japanese Communist Party and Japanese Socialist Party, true heroes in my book, were trying to make Japan less dependent on the West. Both parties were systematically sabotaged by LDP cronies and delusional Japanese ultranationalists who can't see the bigger picture.

If U.S. thinks it is not advantageous for them, they should reduce or withdraw their troops from Japan. If Japan thinks spending more money for U.S. Forces not cost effective, let them go and save money.

Not gonna happen. Keeping the Petrodollar USD regime is expensively necessary. The Defense industry creates jobs for poor states. The military keeps the middle classes alive. Last but not least, the most powerful military in the world is to prevent anyone from rejecting the USD.

The US has a problem with Japan in this case because Japanese took alot of American dollars without paying back. The US needs to weaken the Japanese exporting industries enough for the unemployment rate in the US to go down. Simply put, Japanese successes put too many Americans out of jobs, so the Yankees need to get more jobs back. The best way to start is forcing Japan to pay more for American bases that will eventually employ more American people and cut down trade deficits.

Instead of making a small list of convinient numbers, the fact is Japan is a US colony and therefore must pay for colonial army. It is decades now and it is not fair that JP tax payers and citizens are still punished for what a few idiotic families did and failed last century. US should give back the country it's full independence. JP should write it's own constitution.

Rise up and overthrow the LDP leadership and most of the Imperial Family.

Too bad that Japanese people are too poor of a salaryman to rise up as well as Western media/anime culture keeps most of the Japanese populace in the dark. In South Korea, youngsters now have a bad view on the US and desires independence along with reunification with North Korea. Meanwhile, Japanese youngsters fantasize the life of an American who never experience the horrors of private healthcare.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

FYI:

The operation and maintenence costs of U.S. bases that Japan had shouldered in FY 2018 amounted to about 191 billion yen. The breakdown is as follows:

   Renovation of base facilities: about 20 billion yen

   Labor control cost: about 25 billion yen

   Labor cost (payment to base workers as salaries): about 121 billion yen

   utility and other costs: about 25 billion yen               (Gleaned from Jiji.Com)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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