politics

Japan, UK, Italy to develop next-generation fighter jet

47 Comments
By Katie Forster and Tomohiro Osaki

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47 Comments
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The Tempest was announced a few years ago, but nice to see it finally get the go-ahead.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Keep the US at arms length though otherwise they’ll turn a 3 yen screw into a 3000yen adhesion lock enhancer…

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

Great, 3 countries with one failed aircraft project after the other. I would like to sit in a meeting with those 3

Que dice ?

what. , what ?

nande ? Nani ?

that thing, if ever build will fly or better fall like a brick

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

For those who are too busy to read the entier article. Here is a summary:

(1) Cut costs by joint development by Japan, UK and Italy

(2) US is not a part of the development but US officially supports it

(3) There will be interoperability with US and NATO systems

(4) Aiming capabilities that exceed existing jets such as F-35

(5) Japan and US are working separately on autonomous systems capabilities that compliment this fighter jet project

(6) Increase of defence spending in Japan has become possible due to recent activities by Russia, China and N Koea

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Can't wait to see Italian version of top gun.

Maybe the UK plane will drop fish and chips instead of bombs.

Japanese stealth should have plane made of nori.

-15 ( +0 / -15 )

Italians working on "reverse thrust" Japan on the" Kamikaze "option and the UK maintaining a stiff upper lip.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Hope that's Japanese electronics and not Italian.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Didn't we have the same article a few days ago?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Chikakun...

Hope that's Japanese electronics and not Italian.

Oh yes! Something you never want to see if you are a mechanic....

The words "Magnetto Marelli"....

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

And we thought DRONES are the future masters in the sky based on what we are watching in Ukraine!? so why we need this human piolet craft?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Well share the risk, it makes financial sense.

However the development costs, in a cost of living, inflation crisis represents a huge drain on resources that could be focused on more priority necessities.

Depopulation, child care provision?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Italy can design the interior and leather seats, Japan can manufacture it, and UK can build the engines.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The future is in both Drones and Fighter planes.

"It could also be flown without a pilot's input if required and could be able to fire hypersonic missiles."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63908284

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Great! Just what we need......

1 ( +2 / -1 )

UK and Italy have nothing to offer Japan. Even if it's some scheme ultimately against the occupiers, Japan would be better off going it alone. What does the UK and/or Italy have to offer Japan? Absolutely nothing!

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

The US will have flying saucers by then.

Most flying will drones by then also

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

People want Japan to be more independent from the US

Now here it is

Japan wants more control of its role in developing its armed forces. Japan is more of a junior role in its co-development weapons projects with the US. But in this new project, Japan is more of an equal partner who can decide what they can or cannot do

(And it also helps that Japan's industrial manufacturers would get more business out of this)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Bungle I agree any aircraft that is built by Japan would as you say be presumably a replacement for the F/16. You wrote "The U.S. has demonstrated that fifth generation fighters are absolute money pits" I agree but disagree if you are a Scientist/ Engineer currently working in this research and design area you would know and have such privileged information to know that the US is past 5th generation fighter technology. Loose lips sink ships as I have been dropping many nuggets about the Raider 21 coming out. I posted here many times so there's my proof of concept and now everyone knows its out there. Now to agree with you drones are the future but..... we have just a little more research to development to do before we know man less cockpit can do what a man in the cock pit can do in real time situations.

This would presumably be a Typhoon / F-16 replacement aircraft. The U.S. has demonstrated that fifth generation fighters are absolute money pits, so this is going to be an ambitious project. I can't help but think that the future is in drones, thoug

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@socrateos Well Written, and thank you for breaking down the entire ABC's of reading this, I agree some are just to busy to read but quick to thumb down!

For those who are too busy to read the entire article. Here is a summary:

(1) Cut costs by joint development by Japan, UK and Italy

(2) US is not a part of the development but US officially supports it

(3) There will be interoperability with US and NATO systems

(4) Aiming capabilities that exceed existing jets such as F-35

(5) Japan and US are working separately on autonomous systems capabilities that compliment this fighter jet project

(6) Increase of defence spending in Japan has become possible due to recent activities by Russia, China and N Koea

0 ( +1 / -1 )

They will work this and meanwhile adversares will work on their next gens, even better models, and this will be DOI. And endless game of catch-up. The only ones to be better off will be the crooked contractors and related politicians.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Mark to answer your question "why we need this human piolet craft?" You answered YOUR OWN QUESTION by saying you "THOUGHT" that's exactly what drones are now. They are a thought, they are still in the "THOUGHT design process as each country is still trying to think of enhance the role of the drones. Second do you know what it cost to train a person to fly a fighter jet? Drones can not do what a human can in the cockpit this is the reason why we need pilots in the cockpit. We are not there yet, but we are getting there. I See it test it, do it everyday. Loose lips sink ships!! On another note drones fly by Nodes, if you understand what a node is, then you would understand why pilots still have to be in the cockpit.

And we thought DRONES are the future masters in the sky based on what we are watching in Ukraine!? so why we need this human piolet craft?,

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Dave Good observation good post! You are on to something! Loose lips sink ships!

The US will have flying saucers by then. Most flying will drones by then also

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Drones have their use and will be more useful in the future but that still needs development. Cut the EM communication between drone and base and it just becomes scrap waiting to crash. May be AI in the future will make it independent but then you have the justified moral objection to killer robots.

Tempest is planned to be a mother ship to a swarm of drones/loyal wingmen, there was also research going in to it eventually fielding directed energy weapons.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What does the UK and/or Italy have to offer Japan?

Decades of advanced and battlefield proven weapons production.

What does Sven have to offer? Not much.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

That is the problem of a stupid humanity led by stupid politicians who spend the money on the least necessary things that the world really needs..

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Drop the UK and substitute Germany and everyone will really take notice…

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

(1) Cut costs by joint development by Japan, UK and Italy.

Highly doubtful that they will be cutting costs. Do the governments ever cut costs or manage money efficiently? ;)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Drop the UK and substitute Germany and everyone will really take notice…

Everyone?

A bit like everyone knows/nobody cares, eh?

You do take me back to my elementary school days.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This is just another money laundering scheme for Japanese elites and other European elites.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

single mothership holding an array of drones.....is the next step..

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

And we thought DRONES are the future masters in the sky based on what we are watching in Ukraine!? so why we need this human piolet craft?

The future of both air combat and ground attack are manned / unmanned teaming. Take a 5th or 6th gen manned aircraft and team it with four or five unmanned "Loyal Wingman" type unmanned aircraft that can greatly extend the firepower and sensor capabilitiies of the manned aircraft.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Meanwhile in a little bit of strategic signaling the Chair Force revealed something in plain sight on a taxiway at Area 51. Is it the new 6th gen fighter called NGAD? The notional SR-72? Or maybe something else? In any event, considering how diligent the Air Force has been over the decades of hiding their activities at Area 51, for them to leave something outdoors in plain sight has to have been deliberate. Take a look and ponder it.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44057/mysterious-aircraft-spotted-at-area-51-in-unprecedented-satellite-image

https://frontierindia.com/a-satellite-image-shows-a-secret-plane-in-area-51-usaf-6th-generation-ngad-suspected/

0 ( +0 / -0 )

For the doubters, the UK and Italy cooperated to design, test and build the highly successful Panavia Tornado and Eurofighter Typhoon. They know the process required to bring a design from CAD to production and into front line service. Japan has built US designed fighters and their own in house designs like the F-1, F-2, C-1, C-2 and P-1, plus those excellent flying boats from Shin Maywa. All three nations are motivated to keep up with the latest technologies and production techniques or risk falling behind and being forced to depend on the US for front line combat jets. Nations who can prefer to maintain those capabilities for themselves in case their high tech patron has a problem that slows or stops production of what they need (China nukes the US but not Europe in a dispute in the Pacific) or for political/foreign policy reasons decides to abandon existing alliances.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Drop the UK and substitute Germany and everyone will really take notice…

The Germans and French are developing their own competing 5th gen fighter called the Future Combat Air System. Spain joined the program in 2018.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

From an allied / US perspective, having more aircraft types in the mix makes it much harder for an enemy to come up with countermeasures that can be effecive against multiple types simiultaneously. Each aircraft will have different radars to jam or spoof, each will have a different menu of weapons to employ that will require unique countermeasures to deal with. Very few nations do full spectrum electronic warfare to begin with. It is hard enough to measure the characteristics of one adversary aircraft and come up with effective countermeasures. If as an alliance you have four or five stealthy combat jets (F-22, F-35, Tempest, FCAS, NGAD) each with its own menu of weapons adversaries will struggle to come up with countermeasures that work on all of them, leaving big holes in their defenses they know the allies will exploit. That is why the US suppports these programs. It is very hard for one nation to develop, build and support that many front line combat jets at once, but if you allies team up to develop and support them independently them then you make your adversaries job so much tougher.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Keep the US at arms length though otherwise they’ll turn a 3 yen screw into a 3000yen adhesion lock enhancer…

You could at least be technically relevant. Screws are seldom used in aviation, and if used its role is to locate and clamp, and in a stealthy airframe I would not think having lots of panel that need to be accurately located and clamped is going to result in a stealthy airframe.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Drop the UK and substitute Germany and everyone will really take notice…

Yes but not in a good way. Team player UK vs Narcissistic Germany in a 3 way collab? LOL.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yes but not in a good way. Team player UK vs Narcissistic Germany in a 3 way collab? LOL.

UK, Germany and Italy collaborated to bring us the Panavia Tornado. Lol indeed! It proved to be a very good ground attack aircraft on a par with the F-111.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Lol indeed

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/10/24/A-top-West-German-aerospace-engineer-arrested-on-spying/1046467438400/

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No shortage of Americans have been arrested for spying. That takes nothing away from the product.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

That takes nothing away from the product.

But it says everything that needs to be said about German collaboration. I'd take the UK over anyone else in a heartbeat let alone the German, the nation still funding attacks on Ukraine as we type.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan just decided to import APC(Armored Personnel Carrier) from Finland instead of buying a domestically developed offering from Mitsubishi because the imported APC was both better and cheaper than domestic offering.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/patria-amvxp-8x8-vehicle-selected-by-japan-as-a-new-wheeled-armored-personnel-carrier-wapc-for-japan-ground-self-defense-force

The Japan Ministry of Defense has announced today that Patria AMVXP 8×8 has been selected for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force as their next Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier 8×8 vehicle under the WAPC programme. The Patria AMVXP 8×8 vehicles will be replacing the Type-96 8×8 Armored Personnel Carrier vehicles which are currently in service by Japan Ground Self-Defense Force.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Desert Tortoise

Japan has built US designed fighters and their own in house designs like the F-1, F-2, C-1, C-2 and P-1, 

Japan is scrapping the entire fleet of P-1 and replace them with drones.

Also the entire fleet of JGSDF attack helicopters are scrapped, replaced by drones as well.

No more new domestic weapons development, only weapons import or joining a foreign weapons program as a junior partner to save money.

https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/20221209-OYT1T50038/

空自捜索機や陸自戦闘ヘリを廃止、無人機で代替へ…防衛予算効率化

海自は、P1哨戒機(33機)や哨戒ヘリ「SH60K」(75機)をそれぞれ削減する。

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

We spend so much money on weapons to kill each other. Why not spend this money on research for cures for cancer and other diseases?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Japan is scrapping the entire fleet of P-1 and replace them with drones.

No. They are still building new P-1s. A version of the Predator is being added to supplement manned aircraft much as the US Navy is doing with a similar Predator variant. Adding unmanned aircraft to the mix can give you sensor persistence, the unmanned aircraft can drop sonobuoys and carry a small radar but no weapons, while the manned aircraft can investigate a likely submarine contact and attack it if its determined to be a hostile contact.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Also the entire fleet of JGSDF attack helicopters are scrapped, replaced by drones as well.

Care to document that please. Kawasaki is still building new OH-1s (112 more on oder to replace the remaining Hughes OH-1s in service) and Fuji Heavy Industries just introduced their new UH-1 replacement. The JGSDF is taking deliveries of UH-60JAs. I would be curious where you get these stories from.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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