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Kan calls Medvedev's isle visit 'unforgivable outrage'

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They might as well ask the tooth fairy to return control of the islands. Fairyland Japan for sure...

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Russia’s foreign ministry said it was growing weary of the matter.

I'll second that. It's been over 65 years since the end of the war, let's move on to more pressing issues.

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There are 365 days in a year.. If all disputes are designated a "so & so Day" the calendar will be quickly filled up.. Suggest to split them into half day or one third each for mornings - afternoons -- evenings.. Example, Feb 7 morning for northern Territories then afternoon for Takeshima..

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Interesting comment by the Japanese "Both trips generated sharp protests from Tokyo, which claims Soviet army occupation of the territory just before Japan’s surrender in 1945 was an act of illegal aggression." Um didnt you start this whole conflict or am l missing something. Let me see if l got it right, you declare war, invade, kill, rape etc and when your territory is captured in said war before you surrender you complain. Damn thats funny

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It really shows how failure the U.N is in settling the world conflict. It is the case of David against Goliath, except this time the sling shot will not work well against the big bad and bully polar bear. Japan need a strong deterrent weapons for her survival. The world really need a new U.N who stands up for its value and qualified membership to guide the world for better. I am dreaming for the world peace.... All Evil ones will be in hell.

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Let me get this straight. You start a fight and then get the snot kicked out of you but expect the other side to give back the spoils of war? Then give Okinawa back to the Okinawans!

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You start a fight and then get the snot kicked out of you but expect the other side to give back the spoils of war?

So it would have been morally acceptable for Japan to keep Korea and Taiwan and most of SE Asia as "spoils of war" if they had won the war?

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"So it would have been morally acceptable for Japan to keep Korea and Taiwan and most of SE Asia as "spoils of war" if they had won the war" Acceptable probably not but would they have kept them definately. Do you honestly believe that they would have given them back if they won?

The point is Russia invaded a hostile country as per Russia's alliance with the allies required and seized the territory end of story. Japan can complain all they like they waged a war of aggression and lost they lost territory as a result that is the outcome and l believe it is in bad taste for them to complain given the number of people who died because of their actions.

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The islands are surrounded by rich fishing grounds and are believed to have offshore oil and natural gas reserves, plus gold and silver deposits. They lie as close as 10 kilometers to Japan’s Hokkaido island and are also near undisputed Russian territory. .............................

let's make a deal, Japan help Mother Russia develope the area ( that's what the Russians want ), 40-60 profit sharing ( Russian takes 60 % )and russia allows Japanese to own land and return of the displaced ( partial ownership, Japan save " face " on that ). Then Japan and Russia sign Greater Far Northern Territories Co-prosperity Sphere Treaty and lock China ( and possibly S. Korea ) out for future possible claims.

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are those pink pigs I see flying outside my window? Kan can be best Northern Islandist...now how about something useful like day care centres,Mr.Kan? Or maybe I should expect my child to be shaving her legs before she meets other children and her mum can go back to earning money and paying taxes. All this talk of getting back the islands reminds me of LOST.That is exactly what they are now and forever will be.

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I'm with the Japanese government on this one. What all the anti-Japanese posters on here do not realise, is that the Japanese government were content until now just to show quiet disapproval with the Russian ownership of these islands, but not to make too much of it. That was, until that puppet Medvedev and now the Defense Minister decided to put on their vote-seeking roadshows and highlight Russia's ownership of the islands.

The Japanese government are totally in the right to step up their protests about this flagrant use of the islands as some political vote earner, considering the dirty manner in which the Russians sneaked in when Japan had already surrendered to the US.

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The good timing is now. The whole world is going on the streets demonstrating anyway.

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Let's see if being stubburn will help Japan at all, or will it backfire? Being a former resident of house next to Russian Embassy, I've heard enough protests over last 10 years. It only bothered people like me and had absolutely no effect on Russians changing their minds. Also completely agree with AdamB, Japan was the agressor and that was the price they paid.

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northlondon,

Russia is in possession of the island, as such anyone Russia wants to allow to go there can. Its their land now. Who cares if its vote catching by the Russians good for them, just as Kan and his puppet foriegn ministers rants are vote catching. The Russians may have captured the islands at the end of the war however the official surrender had not been signed and as a side note to that even though Japan had surrendered American service personel where still being KIA after the informal Japan surrender. Another point is even though the formal surrender in Japan was 2 September 1945 (Russian invasion was complete by then.) The Japanese did not surrender in other places until after that date for example Sept 9 in China, 3rd Sept in Philipines, 8th Sept. So as the Russian invasion was over by 2nd Sept what are you saying that they snuck in after Japan surrendered?
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Hang on, the Prime Minister of Japan led a large "rally" ? Aren't rallies usually for people who don't have any real diplomatic power ? .... oh

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Let me see if l got it right, you declare war, invade, kill, rape etc and when your territory is captured in said war before you surrender you complain. Damn thats funny

Your complete lack of knowledge about Japan's history of hostilities with the Russians during the Second World War is truly alarming.

The Japanese never declared war on the Russians. In fact, a non-aggression pact was negotiated between Matsuoka Yösuke and Stalin in 1941 and Stalin was the one who broke the terms of the agreement. The dirty Russians declared war on Japan after the 1st atomic bomb and when Japan was all but finished off (the 2nd atomic bomb did that). A little bit like kicking the school bully whilst he was on the floor after he received a final beating from the kid who stood up to him. The kid who stood up to him (the US) never felt the need to steal any oil-rich territory from that bully (Japan). But the sneaky kid (Russia) who never had any issues with the bully decides it's a good time to stick the boot in regardless.

'The territory was captured in a war'? Damn that's more funny.

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Really the Japanese were lucky that the Reds did not press on to take Hokkaido itself.Japan would have been utterly unprepared to defend it.Kan used to have so much going for him a decade or so ago..now it seems he needs to satisfy the Rightists to keep in power...although that seems to be a prerequisite here.

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So it's an 'unforgivable outrage' then it's kinda going to be difficult to resolve the situation. It is, afterall, something that cannot be forgiven.

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AdamB,

You definitely have a real chip on your shoulder about the Japanese. Unfortunately that blinds your knowledge of the history between Japan and the Russians during World War II. Read my post above, and maybe you should go back to school to learn what really happened. How anyone can condone the Russians dirty invasion of those islands and not recognise it is beyond belief.

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Northlondon, You say "Your complete lack of knowledge about Japan's history of hostilities with the Russians during the Second World War is truly alarming" Maybe its you that needs to learn a bit more history and not the poor Japan we are the victims type history" However you are partly correct, Japan never did declare war on Russia and yes there was a non aggression pact between Russia and Japan. But thats where you stop being correct. Japan broke that pact because in that pact was a clause about if one party got attacked. As Germany attacked Russia and Japan signed the Tri partite pact with Germany and Italy. It was Japan who broke the treaty, so whos lack of knowledge is alarming? Yes the Russians declared war after the first atomic bomb was dropped as was agreed by all the allies at Tehran and Yalta.

Moderator: AdamB and northlondon, please stop sniping at each other. Focus your comments on what is in the story, not at each other. If you are impolite to each other, your posts will be removed.

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Japan had already informally surrendered but the signing ceremony happened a bit later. Russia took it during a technicality window. The US had begun occupying Japan when the Russians took the islands. It can be said that the US let it go to avoid fighting the Soviets in Hokkaido.

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If the Russians feel the need to treat the islands as some kind of political war trophy, when they should have just kept quiet about it if they intend to keep those territories, then I don't see why so many posters are upset with the Japanese quite rightly voicing their displeasure at these political visits. The islands are still under dispute and negotiation by both sides, so the Japanese are right in being angry about these visits.

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"Mr 20 percent" Kan is obviously in his last days as PM - and is desperate to clutch at any straws. He seems like a barking dog now - calling everything an "unforgivable outrage". It aint gonna work, Kan - the Japanese public are far more concerned about you and your parties' grubby politics.

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Japan, solidifying it's role as Asia's crybaby

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...BTW - Medvedez is probably the King of Grubby politics himself. In many respects, he and Kan should get along famously!

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Kan calls Medvedev's isle visit 'unforgivable outrage'

Wow, you can literally feel the world not caring what the leader of Japan says.

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Everyone knows that the Japanese cannot do a thing about the Northern Territories and that's that. There is no way that the Russians will hand anything back. But that does not mean that the Japanese government do not have the right to complain about the use of those territories for Russia's political sideshow.

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@northlondon

Living in a democratic country does not imply agreeing with all of its policies.

Concerning the disputed territories, I think it is a "fait accompli" and only subtile negotiations skills will bring the islands back to Japan.

I don't really have an opinion concerning the islands, but the fact is that repeating "these islands are ours" won't help much. What Japan needs is to find original solutions that could convince the Russian side (economic cooperation, joint sovereignty, special autonomy status, etc...). The only other options are the status quo or going to war with Russia (and nobody wants the latter).

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Medvedev went on a political media show last year and the defense minister quite recently. 2010 and 2011. The Russians should have avoided that if they don't like the Japanese getting angry about it.

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Why should he have avoided going to his territory? Who cares if the Japanese get angry, as other posters have said recently Japan is fast becoming the poster child for whingers. Why should other countries run around being scared of offending Japan does Japan care if they offend other countries?

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Ridiculous, Russia will never give the islands away. All the oil and natural resources it has...

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northlondon: They were 'totally content' until Medvedev's visits, eh? I guess that explains the government protests about Japanese getting Russian visas to visit the islands and what not.

HAHAHA! Seriously, I love it when these politicians, as they are on their way out the door, make bold promises they cannot possibly keep in an effort to get a few points on their downhill tumble. Hatoyama was much the same with Okinawa, and look where that got him. Kan has no grounds to win this one... none whatsoever, and Russia will NEVER give the islands back, and why should they? they are Russian land, administered by Russia, and lived on by Russians.

It IS amusing to watch Kan and Japan shake the little fists as big 'ol Russia just sits there and grins.

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The territorial spat has prevented the two countries from signing a postwar peace treaty.

So Japan and Russia are still nominally at war? That's impressive. Unlike this childish display of nonsense.

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It IS amusing to watch Kan and Japan shake the little fists as big 'ol Russia just sits there and grins.

Big ol' Russia is big because of land it took from others (these northern territories for starters) and because of it's "democracy" of Russia under Putin and theres nothing any political election can do to change. The Japanese government are easy targets for such internet posters sitting comfortably in their free living rooms because they never experienced life under Russian rule. What is so stupid about these posters is that they don't realise they are justifying the Russian governments way of democracy and the manner in which they took these islands. Instead they just find an excuse to bring all the anti-Japanese world war 2 comments out again. What a cheap way to write anti-Japanese sentiment.

Moderator: Please tone down your rhetoric and do not be impolite toward other posters.

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Nothing will resolve not this year.

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As neither side has claim to the area of any great history, and considering the background of the region - remember, Japan occupied southern Sakhalin Island after the 1905 Russo-Japanese War until Russia took it back in 1945 - I'd say the moral high ground lies quite a distance above both parties.

Still, I for one wish the two sides would work out some - ANY - type of modus operandi that would open access to the area. Sakhalin, one of the most pristine regions left on earth and just a stone-throw from Hokkaido, remains frustratingly isolated. Hokkaido would serve as a natural jump-off location for eco-tours to the area, greatly benefiting both sides - if only they would quit their pointless, petty grandstanding.

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Add to what northlondon said. No need to experience life in Russia.Try working with them in the same office. not even that, try having a meal with them.And come back and comment here.

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Less trust politicians! People - puppets! Do not think that the Russian people think only about the war)))) Something is happening - is someone advantageously!

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Peaceful settlement of the issue will be for japan to accept the situation or what is it going to do?

Nothing it cant do a thing.

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Japan's never getting these islands back, and rightfully so. I don't like Russia's politics one bit, but they've got Japan by the short and curlies on this, while Japan can only sit back and do nothing but try to bribe, bribe, bribe. At best, in the long term, they might get one or two back like was offered to them way back when, but if they demand them all back they'll get nothing.

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Japan has only to blame their government (of the past) for the loss of the islands. Had they not declared war on the US they might still be in possession of them. As it is? well...

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There's one more important thing people are forgetting -- this whole outrage by Kan and co. is in response to a visit that took place LAST NOVEMBER! Why now? The reason is because, first and foremost, Kan is about to lose power, so it seems. This gives him a momentary boost in popularity, as the morons in the black trucks, if no one else, will rise up and support his nationalist statements and 'defend the empire'!

Seriously, this is just politicking. It was a non-issue until this week's reports that Kan would 'be out by the end of March', etc. Anyone who thinks he actually cares one wit or can do anything about it is fooling themselves by buying into the nationalistic rhetoric.

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These kind of territorial disputes are only going to get nastier and more numerous in the future as countries compete for diminishing natural resources.

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Stranger: "These kind of territorial disputes are only going to get nastier and more numerous in the future as countries compete for diminishing natural resources."

Yes and no. I think they're going to become more numerous, to be sure, but they won't become nastier until it involves nations that actually pose a threat. Japan poses no threat to Russia. Japan also poses no threat to South Korea or China. If it were China seeking to take Taiwan, however, THAT would lead to some very nasty things.

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I am bewildered at the expert political knowledge oozing out of some here.Not only the great predictions, but the golden phrases just keeps repeating in all the posts on several threads.

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Get over it Japan, you lost the islands in WWII, move on.

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‘‘unforgivable outrage’’

hes sure to mention that "its regrettable that my comments have been taken out of context" in an abrupt about face and then quit real soon.

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"Russia has said that it is tired of discussing the issue"

Too bad, because they're gonna keep hearing about it until they return the islands and apologize.

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Can anyone adequately translate the phrase 'possession is nine tenths of ther law' for me? It would be really useful around about now....

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"Get over it, Japan, you lost the islands in WW2, move on"

Might is right! LOL!

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sarge: "Too bad, because they're gonna keep hearing about it until they return the islands and apologize."

Dude... don't post such stuff when I'm drinking coffee... you've nearly cost me a monitor before!

All the Russian government is going to hear is what they want to hear, for better or worse. They're not going to listen to Japan whine about things Japan has no control over, and these islands are no exception; they belong to Russia, and Japan playing 'tough guy' while they literally BEG Russia behind the curtains (with padded envelopes, prostitutes, and whatever else they push on other nations to get some votes/favour) only makes Russia laugh that much more. In other words, they'll 'hear about it' when they decide to take the Japanese extension of their islands off 'hold'.

Sorry, bro... Japan lost these long ago. If they were willing to give up their absconding of Okinawa and say they want to genuinely get land taken forcefully back, they might have a wee bit of precedence. Until then....

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Sarge, know how to distinguish the exaggerated phrases! The whole world around will be an enemy, if thoroughly study the history! About their mistakes should not forget in Japan. The Japanese have long been a U.S. puppet!

"Sarge" said earlier:

""""" these guys are idiots "

Protesting an illegal occupation and demanding the return of islands rightfully belonging to Japan makes these guys idiots?

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smith: "they belong to Russia"

No, they don't. Take a look at a map, and you'll see.

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I was born on Kunashir Island, 国 后 岛!!! I am not indifferent! This is the territory of Russia!!!

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sarge: "No, they don't. Take a look at a map, and you'll see."

PLEASE! That same map would say there's no way any islands in the Pacific belong to the US, so can you guys give them up already? That's the lamest reasoning we've heard yet. They are Russian islands because they are owned and administered by Russia, and have been for more than 60 years. Russians live on them. How many Japanese live there? Why do they need Russian visas if it's Japanese territory? Didn't two just the other day get said visas?

Wake up, sarge, if you want to talk about proximity as a means of ownership, than you would have no qualms about China claiming all the islands of Okinawa as theirs (or Taiwan). But my guess is that you have no trouble about defending Japan's claims of islands they stole by force way back when as theirs and.... oh wait, that's what Russia has done... so why the hypocrisy, sargie?

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sarge: "No, they don't. Take a look at a map, and you'll see."

Ah, you mean a 'Japanese' map made in China? :) It's always amusing when the Japanese have no concept of time zones and think they are 'proper time (zero)'. Reminds me of your arguments in favour of them here. Yeah, sure, I look at any Japanese map and they'll mark territory that is not theirs as theirs. That's what you call 'proof'? I hope you're not a lawyer, bud... you might be successful in Japan, but nowhere else.

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This is a joke? There are more disputed Islands in the Pacific than all the Islands combined. Give it a break. Spoils of war.

@ smithinjapan.....I would assume you are on one of the disputed islands as you have no clue. Read the article and get on board.

If the world is to reconcile all spoils of war, then we have to go pre-Neanderthal.

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@ Sarge

No, they don't. Take a look at a map, and you'll see.

Seriously, was that a joke? I suppose if I want to see how people speak English I should look in a book on English grammar.

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I think those Russian leaders will repeat footsteps over those disputed islands!

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The territories are officially recognized as being a part of Russia at this juncture. This is absolute balderdash by the wannabe Japanese leader. He is trying to be a populist demagogue appealing to the under educated masses using a sense of nationalism.

Kan is a rather distasteful poor excuse for a leader.

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How many times did Russian border guards has open fire at Japanese vessels approach near those islands? Didnt those actions were not as 'unforgivable outrage' than this one?

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Quite whining Kan! You're lucky Japan still has Hokkaido!

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2.07 billion yen in fiscal 2011.....? Are they going to print more posters and flyers in Russian languages demanding the return those islands? What a waste of papers!

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Russian politicians often say things that are unrehearsed and sometimes: offhand.

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Russian governments few times told to Japan that they can share those territory with Japan if Japan wish or they can back land to Japan, but without sea around, because Russia need sea for be able go to Pacific ocean (other ways all in ice almost time of year)+it resources(why Russian should give their resources to someone?) but Japan disagree, actually Japan no need land, need only ocean and ocean resources...

it so sad when politics try get vote by act like foolish, i hope those one who come after Kan will be more smart... for Japan Russia is so good market for sell their products and if they be friendly, Russia can give a lot to Japan too... Russia don't hate Japan and want to do some with this situation, but Japanese politics don't want find way how to fix it, cuz if they will agree with some, they will lose nationalistic votes... Russia not aggressive to anyone, just as long as it Russian territory: Russia want care this too...

other point is: if Russia back to Japan those islands easy, then a lot of others countries start said that they need part of Russia, because 1000 years ago it was be their own territory...

i guess politics in those days should care more about economic then about territorial fighting... Russia can survive without Japan, Russia can found a lot of county who will want get their resources and rent territory and sell products at market, but Japan need Russia more then silly politic think, now at Russian market there are a lot of empty place what can be leader by Japanese...but Japanese politics can keep do like that and Chines/ Indians will get all those empty places at Russian market so sad...

and in history background those islands was be Japanese and Russian territory many times

i'm Russian and i want that our governments fix this trouble somehow, i want that our country be more friendly, but Japan don't want listen any, but Russia will never agree just give back, cuz need those land too i wish our country will stop this silly fight and will be care only about economic

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Russia administers those islands and Japan declaring the Russian President's visit to those islands "an outrage" is going to warrant a big, fat, "Meh" from Russia. Japan is lucky that Hokkaido isn't Russian territory after WWII.

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If Kan wants to get serious about this, he'll make it harder for Russians living on the islands to get in and out of Japanese port cities. Maybe by making the customs and immigration procedures a bit more Russian in the red tape department.

Hokkaido is currently the main source of spare parts (marine and automotive), consumer electronics, groceries, alcohol, fuel, as well as services like dentistry and eye care - to say nothing of emergency health services - for everyone living in the Northern Territories. That will get their attention - because right now the people living their are laughing.

They're subsidized by Moscow for living there, their officials are subsidized by Japanese fishermen who pay to keep the Russian coast guard off their backs, and they have access to relatively cheap goods from Japan.

They rely on cities like Abashiri, Nemuro and Kushiro to supply them with the things that they can't get from Moscow. Which is nearly everything. Make that experience as Russian as possible - say, six weeks on the dock and a thousand dollar bribe for everyone with a name tag. Or forbid exports to the Northern Territories altogether - make them route the stuff via Vladivostok or something.

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hokkaidoguy, Good idea make it hard for the Russians to live on the islands, then the Russians can close off all access to the waters and airspace to the Japanese. Then for kicks to settle it we can have a good old fashioned war to solve it.... I would think that is what should be avoided.

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Good idea make it hard for the Russians to live on the islands, then the Russians can close off all access to the waters and airspace to the Japanese.

I'm suggesting that Japan make it as hard for Russians as the Russians make it for the Japanese - and everyone else, for that matter.

Even if that means shaking them down for bribes at every turn - it's nothing more than the Russians already do. Ask anyone else who has done business in Russia - they'll tell you the same. Most companies factor in a few grand into the average travel budget for the inevitable shakedown - let alone what it costs to actually run a company there.

What's good for the goose, and all that.

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Thats fair enough then. But that can be a slippery slope is all im saying one side will always want to raise the stakes a bit more than the other.

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I wonder which nation and their 'leader' needs the 'forgivable' offering from Japan! Please remind me.....

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um.. Russians should think importance of learning true history. All Russian must read 'Cairo Declaration' and 'The Potsdam Declaration'. That says, 'the Allies war objective wasn't own territorial expansion'. That is, Russia don't have a right to our islands as 'war trophy'.

First of all,Japan and Soviet(Russia)didn't have a war. but,Suddenly,On August 18, 1945, Soviet violated the Japanese-Soviet neutrality pact and entered the war toward Japan and seized our traditional islands. that's just 'thief at a fire'. shame on you. YES,千島列島Chishima retto are all Japanese territory. (aka. 'Kuril Islands'. it's imprecise term.) 占守島Shumshu - 国後島Kunashir. Not only four. All Russian must to know that fact.

We Japanese can't put up with Russian rudeness any more. Russia must stop illegal occupation and return our islands as soon as possible. it's absolutely justifiable claim. I want to expect make wise decisions of people of sound judgment in Russia. thx

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kotaro6800,

Russia and Japan did have neutrality pact which Japan broke by signing Tri partite pact with Germany. Remember Germany attacked Russia and as an Ally of German this was a breach of the Neutrality pact. The neutrality pact said in Article 3 that "The present Pact comes into force from the day of its ratification by both Contracting Parties and remains valid for five years. In case neither of the Contracting Parties denounces the Pact one year before the expiration of the term, it will be considered automatically prolonged for the next five years" As Russia denounced the pact one year from its end date there is no issue there. International law cites that as the get out clause. Russia actually declared war on Japan on the 8th of August not the 18th. It is also documented that the timing of the Russian invasion was set in advance at the Tehran and Yalta conferences and that the Kurils invasion was part of the deal by the US to get Russia into the Pacific war. Sorry but you lost your islands because of the US as much as the Russians
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I don't know why Japan is insisting that these islands are part of Japan, heck, it would take hours to swim from Hokkaido to the closest one, Kunashiri, plus the Russians have such a small land area, they need these islands, lol.

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Huh? Soviet had no protest to Japan about 'breach of the Neutrality Pact'.

In fact,the Japanese-Soviet neutrality pact was valid until April 1946. it's consensual validation each other..On April 5, 1945. Soviet is very sneaky.

Now,Russia must deeply repent and apologize for the unbearable pain and sorrow Japan experienced and stop illegal occupation and return our islands as soon as possible. thx

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Soviet is sneaky and anything 'halyavi'. Probably they are trying to sell the islands that don't belong to them to get some money? They have done it before.

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"In fact,the Japanese-Soviet neutrality pact was valid until April 1946"

by 1945 all treaty conducted with the Axis power was useless (as the Munich Agreement), by march 1945 Soviet Union said that it woulnd't extneded the non-aggression pact. * The obligation to fulfill is part in the War against Japan on the behalf of the Western Allies

"Soviet is sneaky and anything 'halyavi'"

You mean they actucally declared War on 8th August and invaded on 9th August. But hey the Japanese styles, attack first declaring war later, just like Pearl Harbor 1941 or 1904-05 war.

"'. Probably they are trying to sell the islands that don't belong to them to get some money? They have done it before?"

Good ideas, they gave some lands back to the Chinese in 2004 (Ussuri), maybe selling them to Koreans or Chinese for the higgest bid in the furture

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'unforgivable outrage'

Don't know what this word means. It just sounds weird. Can anyone explain it??

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If Japan wants to settle this without any Russian gain, why not take dispute to the United Nations. Personally I think whomever administers the islands should own them, that is to say they belong rightfully to the Russian Federation. We know Russia wont simply hand them over so if Japan wants them, they should offer some sort of indemnity to Russia in exchange for the islands. Japan also should offer indemnity to China, or drop the claim on Senkaku. These issues only serve to stir up nationalists, why they can't be solved more quickly and with less consternation is always a matter of much confusion to myself.

I have one other suggestion, tri-lateral discusion between Russia, China, and Japan, to give the islands to the larger countries, in exchange for economic concessions. Japan will need closer cooperation with these two countries as their economies grow.

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Can you imagine? if only one country in this region had NOT behaved beligerently when at its peak,the whole dynamics of the far east would have been totally different,more at peace perhaps?...and now more than a pound of flesh is needed to appease the blunders of history.

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A huge Volcano, Earth Quaker, or Asteroid could fix this whole issue.

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To: Borcht. Re: Your entry.

"Let me get this straight. You start a fight and then get the snot kicked out of you but expect the other side to give back the spoils of war? Then give Okinawa back to the Okinawans"!

The logic and reasoning you used is flawed. And there are mixed metaphors. It is not reasonable to do so. A. Picking a fight? B. Loose fight. B. Spoils of War?

The Soviet Russia has a history of being a war monger. And usually picked Stated and Nations that were smaller and weaker. That was Soviet Russian style in the 1930-45.

And when the weaker States that Soviet Russia bullied rallied together, and were matching the numvers of Soviet Russia, and fought back. Soviet Russian was hollering for help from America.

Soviet Russian does not have history of fighting fair.

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