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Kansai Electric urges Noda to OK restart of Oi reactors

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I, for one, would like to see a condition implemented to the re-start of the nuclear plants. Something like "In violation of any safety and nuclear regulation, Kansai Electric should provide full medical and livelihood support for affected individuals and municipalities".

I am against nuclear power, but let's be realistic here, Japan has been relying on nuclear power for centuries, and the construction of alternative power supply will take several years at the most.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Make it mandatory for all new homes built to have solar panels, this would help with supply issues.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

none can be reactivated without passing tests of their ability to withstand natural disasters and without the consent of the local authorities and the government.

I would like to know how you can prove that the reactors is safe in case of a natural disaster? Either way the its time for them to make a choice and there is really only one choice for the time being, turn them back on. The fact of the matter is that without those plants they will be in big trouble for now.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

“I ask that the prime minister make a bold decision quickly,” he said, according to comments reported by local media

I ask that the prime minster make a smart decision without haste that protects the lives of ordinary citizens. We just got rocked by a quake last night.

You can't do it. You can't have nuclear energy on this shaking rock. We know you need it but you can't without risking nuclear disaster.

These quakes are not going to end. The planet is in constant state of change and reformation everyday. With all the movement along the Pacific ring of fire Japan needs to hold off on starting it's reactors.

Remember people, they lied about the radiation levels. Don't think that they won't lie about the stability of these plates Japan sits on. They'll keep lying to you. Should you be in a state of distrust? Yes, you better be.

Don't restart them. Adjust your lives, try living without it. You did it once before....you can do it again.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

""In violation of any safety and nuclear regulation, Kansai Electric should provide full medical and livelihood support for affected individuals and municipalities".

Nope - that's what happening to Tepco right now.

Just adopt the European ways. Restart them as soon as you have them properly insured against any third party damages in case of nuclear accident, regardless of causes. In Europe they'll never find the insurance company willing to proving thousands of billions of EUR and go down in case of trouble, in Japan it will be much more difficult. Normal Japanese people are resilient enough to live with electricity ratios, as we've lived just until 20-30 years ago (no Aircon~)...

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Germany's new solar gadget produces electricity equivalent to 20 nuclear plants!!!!! Where is Japan in the innovation space for renewables, which is tomorrow's energy business of choice? http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/26/us-climate-germany-solar-idUKBRE84P0FI20120526 This was done after fukushima when Germany shut down many of its nuclear rectors. nuclear energy has no future although it is just being forced down the throats of innocent citizens by money hungry companies and their political cronies

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Want electricity? Ask Germany!! its new solar gadget produces electricity equivalent to 20 nuclear plants!!!!! http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/26/us-climate-germany-solar-idUKBRE84P0FI20120526 This was done after fukushima when Germany shut down many of its nuclear rectors. nuclear energy has no future although it is just being forced down the throats of innocent citizens by money hungry companies and their political cronies

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

The only thing that needs a bold decision is to allow real independent and international ongoing inspections.

How have these companies been allowed to be in a position where they dictate what the government does?

A lot of brown envelopes on the move at the moment eh?

The only possible way that any reactor should now restart is under the strictest of oversight from independent inspectors, which will mean almost all will never restart, and the company agrees that it will take full and total responsibility for any and all issues in an open and well publicised manner.

Long before Fukushima there have been many issues of falsified safety checks and covered up accidents in Japan, it is clear that the whole culture with-in the nuclear power industry is absolutely corrupt and totally untrustworthy.

As a secondary point, from what I understand of reactors start up times even if they started today they will not be running at anywhere full power for several months, therefore it seems yet again that this is more about saving the company money in the long term rather than addressing any short term power shortage.

Also, Japanese electronic and car companies who spend all their time re-selling us the same stuff under "eco" badges, how about doing something really "eco" and sorting out at least some of your own power supply.

If they really need to save power offer bonus discounts to anyone that doesn't increase or reduces their electricity usage over summer, after all this is all about how money is more important than people. :-(

2 ( +2 / -0 )

As a secondary point, from what I understand of reactors start up times even if they started today they will not be running at anywhere full power for several months, therefore it seems yet again that this is more about saving the company money in the long term rather than addressing any short term power shortage.

Not true - it takes probably one to two hours to reach close to nominal output powers. Maybe half a day in the testing then they can start the supply. Remember in Fukushima's case it took less than 12 hours to start melting the rods, waay beyond the nominal temperatures.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If you are not in hurry, and want to warm up nice and slowly, it doesn't take more than 3 days, from a cold shutdown state. The biggest problem is running the steam through cold pipes causing condensate to form and water droplets = damaged turbines.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

the head of utility from every power company should be made to live permanently right next to the Fukushima nuke before even asking to let their dirty bombs start up again

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"Tofu Islands of Japan" and Nuke look like a deadly cacktail to me while shortage of electricity is deadly to some who depend on life support equipments. Maybe starting the 3rd shift (11pm -7am) in summer time may be a solution to this. Everyone needs to start thinking something outside of box here. .

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Everyday I still outdoor lights on during daylight hours. That is just one little section of Japan where I travel everyday. Multiply this by millions of lights. The big mansions still have their light timers set on winter time. I see their lights on about 5:00 pm. Still see shops with the doors wide open and the airconditioners running full steam. If these kind of things are not being enforced, I really cannot believe that there is a power shortage issue. The nuke companies just don't want Japan to make it through a summer without their dangerous power source and be therefore deemed unnecessary (as they are). Seems to me people just need to use their brains a little and the problem is solved.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Nuclear power is a huge money loser. The sooner it is completely stopped in Japan the better off Japan will be financially. Nuclear power survives due to massive corporate welfare from the state. Also of course the country will be safer. Clearly nothing the nuke company says can be trusted. They lied their way into meltdown and do not doubt for a second they would be willing to do the same again to ramp up their own profits.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Ask the people.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

“I ask that the prime minister make a bold decision quickly,” he said, according to comments reported by local media.

wut

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The press too, falls into the same trap, quote: "Kansai Electric, which relied on nuclear plants for half of its electricity output before the disaster, warned that its current capacity is likely to be 15% below demand this summer."

"Below demand this summer"?

No, no, and no again. Let's keep this very clear, again, because it is important.

Kansai Electric actually said that its current capacity would be 15% less "than the summer of 2010".

(We all know that 2010 was the hottest summer on record in Japan for 113 years).

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Fire up those reactors! Without them Japan is going to go bust quicker than it already was doing.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

URGE? I urge the government to listen to those that Kan said had been marginalized by the Nuclear Village.

Also the math does not add up, 50% of power generated by Nuclear...all off line and a 15% short fall? So does that mean they have been generating 35% extra for all these years? Think their lying is so ingrained it's no longer making any logical argument.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Nuclear power survives due to massive corporate welfare from the state.

That's funny that's what i keep on hearing about 'green' energies like solar and wind.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The amount of grant and tax breaks for renewable enrgy comes no where near to those the nuclear industry gets.

I see. What do prefectures usually do with that tax? Those "donations" do seem weird... The 90/10 proportion is not balanced at all indeed. Those companies surely have more than enough money to finance R&D themselves, 30/70 would make more sense (assuming the figure about nuclear providing 30% of Japan's energy is accurate).

1 ( +2 / -1 )

And here we go.... amidst Edano and Kan being brought before a panel to testify about their roles in the nuclear disaster, and the latter at least saying Japan must move away from nuclear power, the electric companies are proving yet again how far they are in the government's pockets and pushing for the PM to make a decision AGAINST the public. This is simply disgusting.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The start up of the nuclear plants is necessary to help Japan keep down the costs of imported oil and gas to run them. The cost alone is going through the roof, but it also means Japan has to keep importing oil from Iran. That is okay for the moment, but sooner or later the U.S. and E.U. will demand that all imports stop from Iran -- or else. For more, see http://oildiplomacy.wordpress.com/2012/05/28/japan-to-continue-to-import-irans-oil/

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Would it be cheeper and safer to enlage the geothermal plants? Combined with an AKB48 energy saving program? Something like.."they look better in the dark" or "manual not machine" it's only 15% on one or two peek days, as I understand it not 15% for months on end?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Cricky May. 29, 2012 - 01:53PM JST

Would it be cheeper and safer to enlage the geothermal plants?

I think an individual geothermal plant is limited by how much heat can be tapped in the area that the plant drills down to. Enlarging existing plants may not be an option, only new one will probably contribute more power.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

japan123 May. 29, 2012 - 08:32AM JST

Want electricity? Ask Germany!! its new solar gadget produces electricity equivalent to 20 nuclear plants!!!!!

Not a gadget - just a large amount of solar arrays. The article does not make clear that the electricity produced is just the peak power - for most of the day it will be much lower, with a daily average perhaps 1/8 of the peak. This is why Germany is planning 20 new coal plants to provide more stable power. Mmmm...CO2

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Star Viking

Thank you, so why not build a new one? Thermal power is as is hydro power an option? After re-reading, these existing plants will be at full capacity so if they fill the gap now (power saving) surly building new ones would be cheeper and safer then continuing to rely on a short term fix ( N-Power) It might take 3 or 4 years ( guess) to get on line but with power savings that's not so bad, except for those who benifit from N-Power. Starting unverifiable non idependetly verifiable reactors for the sake of 15% seems unconchable stupid.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@japan123 "Want electricity? Ask Germany!" As long as you only ask them at midday when the sun is shining. At least that's the message I got from the article you linked to. The article also talks of Germany producing "a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity per hour". This doesn't make any sense, which makes me question the rest of the content. It will be news when they can produce 22 gigawatts from solar power around the clock.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@zichi "Japan could be generating 80GW from geothermal"

But at what risk? In Switzerland, a geothermal operation was shut down permanently in 2009, reportedly after a study showed it was likely to cause millions of dollars worth of damage a year because of induced earthquakes. That's not exactly encouraging.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Albaleo, that's Switerland! Japan is constantly at the whim of earthquakes. The collateral damage from thermal Vs N-power don't compare.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

But at what risk? In Switzerland, a geothermal operation was shut down permanently in 2009, reportedly after a study showed it was likely to cause millions of dollars worth of damage a year because of induced earthquakes. That's not exactly encouraging.

You mean geothermal tapping causes earthquakes?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Must have missed that on the news, Zichi.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I am waiting for the leaflet through my postbox that will let me have subsidized solar power!

But....

it will never happen as the anal control of energy by the government in league with the power companies will never allow energy to be cheaply controlled by the consumer!

Cloudy Germany is producing record yields from solar power whilst Japan is still blowing on about how important it is to have lethal nuclear power plants keep on generating - it has to be a lie doesn't it?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan should not restart any reactor before safety has been confirmed by an independent agency. That means not this year and probably not next year any more. The longer the nuclear lobby delays the setup of an independent nuclear supervision in Japan the longer they have to wait to restart the reactors.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

As long as you only ask them at midday when the sun is shining. At least that's the message I got from the article you linked to. The article also talks of Germany producing "a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity per hour". This doesn't make any sense, which makes me question the rest of the content. It will be news when they can produce 22 gigawatts from solar power around the clock.

@albaleo, just to get the numbers/units straight: electricity generated from solar in 2011 was about 18TWh in Germany. Total installed capacity was about 24GW peak. In Japan, as opposed to Germany, peak power consumption is even better correlated to sunshine hours because of the heavy use of air conditioning. Almost all of the installed solar capacity could reliably provide power during peak times of consumption. Of course, solar cannot generate power around the clock, but that is not needed at all.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

zichi May. 29, 2012 - 05:31PM JST

Japan could be generating 80GW from geothermal which is twice as much as by nuclear.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say it may be possible to generate 80GW from geothermal?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@zichi "drilling for natural gas can also cause earthquakes which happened recently in the UK"

That was a fracking test, I think, and not conventional drilling. (Unless there was another case.)

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21120-how-fracking-caused-earthquakes-in-the-uk.html

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

CrickyMay. 29, 2012 - 04:11PM JST

Thank you, so why not build a new one? Thermal power is as is hydro power an option? After re-reading, these existing plants will be at full capacity so if they fill the gap now (power saving) surly building new ones would be cheeper and safer then continuing to rely on a short term fix ( N-Power) It might take 3 or 4 years ( guess) to get on line but with power savings that's not so bad, except for those who benifit from N-Power. Starting unverifiable non idependetly verifiable reactors for the sake of 15% seems unconchable stupid.

New geothermals take a long time to get online, sites have to be surveyed, and many prove a bust. The surveys take time, and the upfront costs are high. That said, it's a field that needs expanding - but it's not a sure bet.

Hydro takes a long time too, and fossil fuels have their own problems.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@zichi

"The geothermal situation in Japan is very different and using it for generating power is unlikely to cause any earthquakes."

In what way is it different in Japan? (Other than this layman's first thoughts that risk in Japan would be higher.) Also, when you say "unlikely", is that more or less likely than a massive tsunami from an M9 earthquake?

I'm not trying to be dismissive (in case I give that impression). I'm all for trying all forms of alternative energy. But given Japan's geology, I've always wondered why there wan't more geothermal production already. I've always assumed it wasn't profitable, given that environmental issues in Japan don't tend to stop big construction when someone really wants to build something.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

albaleo I think the situation in Japan is different vs. the given example of CH because Japan is volcanic with a lot of heat close to the surface, like Iceland. Thus not need for deep drill and associated risks.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

And BTW, besides generating power, it is possible to cool buildings by heat exchangers with water (river, lake sea). It is used in Switzerland where A/C is prohibited. In terms of heating, heat pumps (air or geothermal) are pretty common even in single family houses. In Canada I had a heat pump that was providing 4 times the watt input at -10ºC! Real solutions exists! (I'm still struggling with my landlord in Shibuya to replace my old A/C heating system with this kind of efficient and proven technology - but ... too expensive!!!)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Time to move on from using radiation plants. That technology ruins everything ...land, air, oceans. And life. It's time to move on.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I still think R&D should be expended on building Thorium reactors.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

zichi May. 30, 2012 - 12:04AM JST

Japan has favorable sites for geothermal power because of its proximity to the Izu-Bonin-Mariana Arc. In 2007, Japan had 535.2 MW of installed electric generating capacity. But no new plants have been built since 1996.

"Favorable sites" do not equal 80 GW of power. In fact, your quote is taken directly from a sparse Wikipedia article which lists the currently operating plants after the quote, i.e. favorable refers to the current sites - not potential sites.

Seeing how poor Wiki is for some information, I did a Google Schoral search on ""Izu-Bonin-Mariana Arc" "geothermal power" and found only one direct reference - to a TEPCO plant on Hachijojima. So it looks like Wiki, in this case, is wrong with the IBM ARC reference.

For many decades, the 10 major power companies have enjoyed a near 100% monoploy over both power generation and power supply. For most of the last 50 years the country has been governed by the LDP which started the countries nuclear energy policy.

And yet they have invested in geothermal power, as we see with TEPCO's Hachijojima plant.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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