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Kishida cautious on same-sex marriage, separate spouse surnames

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They have this in many countries in the world. They all seem to survive without any problems caused by different names or having a piece of paper saying they are married. Kishida, be like the man from Del Monte... say yes!

6 ( +20 / -14 )

Japan's Civil Code requires that married couples share the same surname, with the overwhelming majority traditionally choosing the husband's name.

A solution would be to allow"double-barrel" names, such as Suzuki-Presley or Presley-Baba for example.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

there are still "various opinions in the public" over permitting separate surnames for married couples and called for more discussions to win "broad" support for the issue.

So, it doesn't benefit approval rating or boost voting so just let it the way it is.

-9 ( +11 / -20 )

I just for the life of me cannot understand why the separate surname thing is such an issue for these old timers. What does it matter what a person's last name is. Let each family and person make that decision on their own.

22 ( +27 / -5 )

Love is all important!

Couples marry because of love.!!

So what's the problem? !!!

And where's the problem?!!!!

Don't make a mountain out of a molehill!!!!

4 ( +20 / -16 )

Is it 2023 or 1823 here?

-12 ( +19 / -31 )

If there are worried about traditional marriage and family values being effected, how is it going so far? Sexless marriages, single moms, love hotels everywhere. My guess, we should take a closer look at what the problem is.

15 ( +21 / -6 )

Same-sex marriage is a matter "that largely depends on individual views of what constitutes family," Kishida said, responding to a lawmaker of the main opposition Constitutional Democratic Party of Japan who urged the swift legalization of such a system.

One can not rule a country while caring about or being concerned about individuals "views".

Many members of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, which Kishida heads, have opposed same-sex marriage on the grounds they cherish traditional family values.

Just because you cherish something does not mean everyone else does!

4 ( +12 / -8 )

Is it 2023 or 1823 here?

Indeed. I'd think that someone living in another country would have a wider view of things.

Are the naysayers saying so because they are deep into a religion? Probably Christian? Why all the hate on how others decide to live? I'm curious.

5 ( +15 / -10 )

On another hot-button issue,

Hot button? Please stop with the overboard rhetoric!

0 ( +7 / -7 )

On another hot-button issue, the prime minister said there are still "various opinions in the public" over permitting separate surnames for married couples and called for more discussions to win "broad" support for the issue.

But when a Japanese woman marry to a foreigner all of the sudden they permit separate surnames. Why is so, Japan?

17 ( +24 / -7 )

AMEN..

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

Japan moves slow. They are a country of tradition and unlike young countries are adverse to changing those traditions at a whim. That results in progress too slow for many, particularly for those who only have one life to live and want to get on with it. But that doesn’t mean Japan can’t or won’t change - the fact that so many foreigners are allowed to live in Japan, something previously not allowed, shows. This change will eventually happen, but not until too late for too many, which is very sad.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

My wife already has a separate surname from mine. Hers.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

My wife already has a separate surname from mine. Hers.

That’s only allowed in Japanese law when marrying a foreign national.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

My Japanese spouse used her own name for about the first ten years but then decided to change to my own.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The problem lies with the family register which foreigners cannot be on.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Elvis.....

A solution would be to allow"double-barrel" names, such as Suzuki-Presley or Presley-Baba for example.

There is one exception to the same family name rule. That is if you marry a foreigner you do not have to have the same name. So Ms Suzuki could be married to Mr Presley.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

A solution would be to allow"double-barrel" names, such as Suzuki-Presley or Presley-Baba for example.

What happens when a "double-barrel" surname marries another "double-barrel" surname?

And the quadruple-barrel offspring marries another quadruple-barreler?

Answer: Good times, tell you what!

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

I’d rather have my kids with a different surname than the double barrel surname. My wife took my name though so it’s not relevant for my situation.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What happens when a "double-barrel" surname marries another "double-barrel" surname?

And the quadruple-barrel offspring marries another quadruple-barreler?

Answer: Good times, tell you what!

I believe this is how Spain does it. They actually have all their ancestors surnames, but they only use one by default. I’m not clear on the specifics through.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There cannot be two family registers. But the man could also choose the name of the woman.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

In other countries, everyone is an individual with a birth certificate. There are no family registers like in Japan. Until that system is changed there cannot be separate names for Japanese couples.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Until that system is changed there cannot be separate names for Japanese couples.

You just said you and your spouse lived with separate names.

I know for a fact it is possible to have separate names as Mr Kipling states. I can give you the number of a city hall to call and confirm. If you can.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Let's be clear on this. It's not about "various opinions in the public" - it's about the position of Nippon Kaigi and the most conservative lawmakers, most of whom are Nippon Kaigi members.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Elvis is here

Until that system is changed there cannot be separate names for Japanese couples.

> You just said you and your spouse lived with separate names.

> I know for a fact it is possible to have separate names as Mr Kipling states. I can give you the number of a city hall to call and confirm. If you can.

We are not a Japanese couple. Foreigners married to Japanese citizens can use separate names only because foreigners are not allowed on a Japanese family register. If they were, then the same rule would apply to them as it does for all Japanese couples.

There cannot be two family registers for one Japanese couple.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Theee old guys talk about traditional family in Japan? Where kabukicho play time isn’t considered cheating. Marriage is a legal issue and if 2 women want to marry or 2 men want to marry then who am I to say no. It’s a contract that has very real word legal protections. If you don’t want one then don’t get one. Why restrict freedom and legal protections. Homophobia has no place in government and everyone knows the more homophobic you are the more in the closet you are.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

I find it offensive that the government forces me to have a name! I didn't even choose it, it was assigned to me, yet I must bare it all the same.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

jeffy

I find it offensive that the government forces me to have a name! I didn't even choose it, it was assigned to me, yet I must bare it all the same.

People do not choose their family name, they are born in. In countries like the UK, anyone can change their name by deed poll.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

People do not choose their family name, they are born in. In countries like the UK, anyone can change their name by deed poll.

Technically you can change your name in Japan too, but only under a very narrow set of circumstances.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

yes

there are men and women.

and marriage is between man and a woman.

anything else is a relatioship,you can call friendship or partnership.this you cant equal to marriage.

Fumio well said.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

and marriage is between man and a woman.

No that’s incorrect. There are tens of millions of people in same sex marriages world wide.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Foreigners can actually register an alias (通名称) in Japan, and could be ザットガイ. You can even open accounts under the alias.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

this just distracts from all the real issues like the fact that people are struggling to just survive.

Indeed. And the best way for people to survive the struggle is to form a society without any definitive standards. That way everyone can freely struggle however they deem best!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Japan is the only Group of Seven nation that does not…….

This mad lib has at least one million possible answers, to finish that sentence.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

have opposed same-sex marriage on the grounds they cherish traditional family values.

I would like to know what values they think same-sex couples do not cherish, that opposite sex couples do cherish. How exactly do they imagine their family values might differ?

What this seems to really mean is, "I don't think same-sex couples have any values because they are gay." which, QUITE obviously, stems from a prejudice, and has no basis in fact, reality, or reason.

AKA, homophobia.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

Is it 2023 or 1823 here?

Time and progress stand still here.

Japan is the only Group of Seven nation that does not…….

This mad lib has at least one million possible answers, to finish that sentence.

Beat me to it.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

have opposed same-sex marriage on the grounds they cherish traditional family values.

Wise stance. societies that are diminishing the value of the nuclear family are self destructing. Japan has done this for a generation, is suffering the sad results and is desperate to regain what it lost.

Be fruitful and multiply......or fade into oblivion.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

girl_in_tokyoToday 11:50 am JST

I would like to know what values they think same-sex couples do not cherish, that opposite sex couples do cherish.

To quote myself from another post:

[T]he fact of the matter is that a child living with both a mother and a father learns to respect both sexes far better than a child raised solely by a man or by a woman.

( https://japantoday.com/category/national/a-japanese-court-rules-it's-unconstitutional-to-require-surgery-for-a-change-of-gender-on-documents )

And when asked to provide evidence for this assertion I referred to Chen, et. al., "The influence of the parental child-rearing gender-role attitude on children’s social adjustment in single- and two-parent families: the mediating role of intergenerational identity." Humanities and Social Sciences Communications 10 (2023). Part of that article reads:

Children raised in two-parent families acquire knowledge about masculine and feminine counterparts of gender roles and socially appropriate behaviors from their parents from an early age. In contrast, parents raised in single-parent families show more masculinity rearing their own children due to the lack of complete learning role models for gender roles such as when single-mother families take on both maternal and paternal responsibilities in their parenting

( https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-023-02184-x )

The same of course may be said of same-sex couples. Children raised by same-sex couples will of course learn about gender roles in a onesided manner. Of course this is good news for people who think gender roles are simply empty constructs without societal value. But for those who subscribe to traditional values, well. . .

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

To quote myself from another post:

[T]he fact of the matter is that a child living with both a mother and a father learns to respect both sexes far better than a child raised solely by a man or by a woman.

Do you think they should make divorce illegal to force both parents to raise a child? Do you think single parenthood should be illegal? Do you think that it’s immoral?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

I have a feeling Japanese politicians don’t want to legalize same sex marriage not because they are anti-gay per say but rather they don’t want to deal with the hurdles of changing a myriad of other laws like child adoption for same sex couples.

I have no idea what the problem with separate surnames is though. They allow it for Japanese - non Japanese couples and with marriages of two foreigners they also allow it if your relative country of origin allows it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why did he not just come out and say he hates Gays? That is his real reason. I am a young gay woman living with my girlfriend in the UK, no one gives a dam about who or what we are. Oh, and she has a double barreled surname, which she rarely uses because her ancestry can be traced from it, and that goes back to 1066.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

jeffyToday 12:36 pm JST

To quote myself from another post:

[T]he fact of the matter is that a child living with both a mother and a father learns to respect both sexes far better than a child raised solely by a man or by a woman.

No.

What the article actually says is that the children of same-sex parents are less likely to respect segregated gender roles.

And it would not surprise me at all that what a bunch of old straight men are afraid of at core is women gaining equality.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

children of same-sex parents

excuse me what is that?

how can same sex parents have own children?

what kind of "science" is that?

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

two of you above just explain how two woman or two men can have own child?

how woman can get pregnant from other woman?

or can man make pregnant other man?

lets go experts dont be shy...

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

two of you above just explain how two woman or two men can have own child?

how woman can get pregnant from other woman?

or can man make pregnant other man?

This should be obvious already but neither of the arbitrary requirements that you base your argument are actually required for people to have their own children.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Strangerland Today 12:40 pm JST

Do you think they should make divorce illegal to force both parents to raise a child?

No, but it should be socially discouraged rather than being encouraged and celebrated.

Do you think single parenthood should be illegal?

No, but it should be socially discouraged rather than being encouraged and celebrated.

Do you think that it’s immoral?

I would say that it is not ideal.

girl_in_tokyo Today 12:54 pm JST

What the article actually says is that the children of same-sex parents are less likely to respect segregated gender roles

Understanding that “segregated gender roles” are part of traditional values, now please reflect on how I directly answered your comment that “I would like to know what values they think same-sex couples do not cherish, that opposite sex couples do cherish,” while your statement here confirms my point.

And it would not surprise me at all that what a bunch of old straight men are afraid of at core is women gaining equality.

Women have legal equality in the West. Equality is the recognition of rights irrespective of differences. What feminism is advocates for these days is sameness. What men are, women are and vise-versa. There is no meaningful distinction between the two apart from some socially constructed labels which should be discarded anyways. Of course this all seems to go out the window when it comes to achieving parity with men in homelessness, on the job deaths, parental custody, drug addition, etc. It is usually in the cause of gaining power that this “equality” stuff is even brought up.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Is it 2023 or 1823 here?

i wasn’t aware same sex marriages were allowed in other countries 100 years ago…

relatively speaking, I think it’s a much more recent trend. Like since 2004 or 2005 in earliest places and even more recent in many

Japan isn’t that far behind the curve.

I find Japan likes to think things through thoroughly and doesn’t go off half cocked.

And to their credit.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Ironic.

Every single time I make comments about same sex marriage and separate surnames within the same post, about them being issues the government don't want to make any changes, they automatically get deleted by mods (maybe from the alphabet soup agenda). But here's an article putting them both issues in the same bucket.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Mr Kipling

They have this in many countries in the world. They all seem to survive without any problems caused by different names or having a piece of paper saying they are married.

Sadly, this "piece of paper" is a legal one and creates countless problems for many of the children produced to form such "families". Nobody seems to talk about them, it is always about the feelings of the adults involved.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Turns out that the same amount of people, percentage wise, end up in divorce no matter if it is same sex or opposite... so I'm inclined to go with the flow. Let them marry and let them figure out the name between them. If they can't agree on that then they probably shouldn't do it in the first place.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Well, let's see. For countless millennia, the human race recognised that the family consists of a man and a woman and their offspring. It seems that our sexual revolutionaries want to pretend that their new morality ('Love is love!') is undeniably superior, and anyone questioning it must be either a moron or a reactionary bigot. If there's one thing the left is good at, it's smears and slurs.

I hope and pray that Japan will hold out against decadent western lifestyles.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

jeffy Today 02:18 pm JST

Me:

What the article actually says is that the children of same-sex parents are less likely to respect segregated gender roles

You:

Understanding that “segregated gender roles” are part of traditional values,

Just admit that the article does not say what you claim it says - be honest.

your statement here confirms my point.

No.

The article you cited does not demonstrate that there is some huge chasm between the values of same-sex couples and opposite-sex couples, as Kishida and others are continually saying.

It only shows that there is a tendency for some opposite-sex couples to value gender roles more than some opposite-sex and same-sex couples.

My question is why these people seem to think that same-sex couples don't have any of the same values, or that their values are so vastly different that allowing them to marry would have a negative effect on society.

But again, it really does not surprise me that old straight men value strict gender roles considering that it is in their best interests to keep them. After all, they would be horrified to have to wash their own underwear.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

girl_in_tokyo

From there article:

Many members of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, which Kishida heads, have opposed same-sex marriage on the grounds they cherish traditional family values.

It says “traditional family values”. What are the “traditional family values” that they have in mind here? To not steal? To not hit siblings? No. The “traditional family values” it has in mind here is men and women assuming their respective roles as a father and a mother within the household, or, as you say, “segregated gender roles.” Understanding this myself, I then noted your statement:

I would like to know what values they think same-sex couples do not cherish, that opposite sex couples do cherish. How exactly do they imagine their family values might differ?

Well, because “traditional family values” inherently entails “segregated gender roles,” then same-sex couples will naturally not cherish those values. And thus, citing a study which finds that children raised in households with both parents are more socially adjusted and respective of both genders, I wrote:

Children raised by same-sex couples will of course learn about gender roles in a onesided manner. Of course this is good news for people who think gender roles are simply empty constructs without societal value. But for those who subscribe to traditional values, well. . .

At this point you stated:

What the article actually says is that the children of same-sex parents are less likely to respect segregated gender roles.

Well if they are “less likely to respect segregated gender roles,” then they evidently do not cherish “traditional family values,” e.g. lesbian couples do not care about having a man present to carve the Thanksgiving turkey, if they celebrated Thanksgiving. This is not to say that same-sex couples don’t have any values, but they most surely do not have “traditional family values.” Case in point: my own sister asked me to donate sperm so that she and her wife could have a child that shared some DNA with her. Well, since that would in fact be my child, I politely told her no. So here is an example of how her “family values” clashed with my “traditional family values” from my own “lived experiences” if you will. Now if you don’t think such differences in values impacts societal cohesion, well, my sister doesn’t talk to me anymore because of my obviously “bigoted” decision.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Zaphod...

Sadly, this "piece of paper" is a legal one and creates countless problems for many of the children produced to form such "families". Nobody seems to talk about them, it is always about the feelings of the adults involved.

An odd fact but the majority of 14 year olds in the UK are NOT living in a home with both of their biological parents. That's more than half which would make it the norm. Society hasn't broken down yet. Getting there, but marriage and divorce is not the main cause.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

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