politics

Lawyers join opposition to controversial security bills

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If the legal eagles cant get this stopped who can?

12 ( +15 / -3 )

What a week for Dear Leader. How's the tummy, Shin-chan?

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Abe needs to be fed a special DIET!

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Prime minister Abe just suffers a huge setback when Republic Of Korea's president Park announced she will attend the Sept 3 military parade in China. She, like many Japanese, opposes Abe's security bills and greater role for Japan's military in foreign countries as urged on by the military of the USA. It is time Japanese voters take a more active role in deciding the future of their country. They need to vigorously oppose PM Abe and kick him out of office.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Good luck guys. Nice to see SOME Japanese taking a little political initiative.

If the legal eagles cant get this stopped who can?

All the people opposed to this bill regardless of walks of life banding together and telling Dear Leader NO.

What a week for Dear Leader. How's the tummy, Shin-chan?

Let's hope he has a nice washlet!

It is time Japanese voters take a more active role in deciding the future of their country. They need to vigorously oppose PM Abe and kick him out of office.

They reap what they sow. A few years ago, Ozawa talked about suffrage for foreigners but suffered a huge backlash. Had suffrage been granted to us Abe would never have gotten in power.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Left wing nuts with a license to practice law. These are the same group of people who think the mere existence of JSDF is unconstitutional.

-21 ( +4 / -25 )

Idiots without responsibility for national security can afford to speak like that.

-19 ( +3 / -22 )

@Nigelboy:

ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

Again;

land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained

Again:

war potential, will never be maintained

Not sure how much clearer that could be. The SDF is the most technologically advanced, most well armed military force in Asia. If you think it's not capable of assisting the USA in a war situation you are at best naive.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Yes Nigelboy, we get it. You know law better than the Japan Bar Association and all but 3 Constitutional scholars. And yes, of course they are all communists. You know Nigel, nobody really paid any attention to the JCP until your gang took power, right? Congrats to team Abe for making Kazuo Shii look like a sage! They are rapidly becoming a legitimate political force in this country, and it's all your side's fault.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Not sure how much clearer that could be. The SDF is the most technologically advanced, most well armed military force in Asia. If you think it's not capable of assisting the USA in a war situation you are at best naive.

Huh? Am I to assume that you are also against the existence of JSDF?

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

What I don't understand is what took so long for the Japanese bar association to get behind opposing this?

It's in the final stages of being accepted or not accepted.

This issue has been on the table for a long awhile now. Are they slow readers or something?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Poor Abe!!! Abe should abolish the Bar Association and put these unpatriotic lawyers in labor camp or mines where Korean forced laborers dug coals during WWII

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Speed, I would guess it's for the same reason it took the Mainichi/TBS so long to become an even bigger thorn in Team Abe's side than the Asahi. They were being brow-beaten by the government into silence. Then finally Team Abe went too far, so they turned on him. Or maybe they just read Abe's draft constitution and decided they don't care to become subjects of the state, with rights "granted" (and therefore subject to be removed at the governments whim) not "guaranteed" and inviolable.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

why should japan be stuck to the past? almost every country in the world has similar laws that allow for this type of military action. even switzerland has this defense capability!

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

"Murakoshi called the swelling number of lawyers and academics opposed to the bills “unprecedented”. Lawyers typically avoid taking part in large scale rallies."

"Abe and his supporters say the changes are necessary for Japan to deal with the world around it, but the push is deeply unpopular among the general public."

Abe is playing a dangerous game of chicken hoping the other guy will jerk the wheel at the last moment. Problem with that is Abe then becomes both the lighting rod and executioner of thousands of Japanese for a policy change that has no mandate. Is that the Democracy Abe wants to be know for?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Great! This civil movement is a campaign against that blue blooded Abe and his right-wing clique who attempted to turn back the clock of Japan back to 1930s. The LDP defense bill is nothing more than a coup but carry out by legislation instead of guns! Well done these wonderful people and their justice voices, all your efforts were contributing to avoid a castastropic war in Asia where it is for US. interests. Obama is a wolf covered with a sheep's layout skin, he is a despicable warcriminal. Bring it on......

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@Nigelboy: What are you talking about? I put up facts and that's your response?

For the record: I have no stance on it. I don't play the Us vs Them game. Moreover I'm not Japanese, so I have no particular stake in this fight.

I'm simply writing what the Japanese constitution says, and what is painfully obvious. It is up to the Japanese people, and not this one simple foreigner, to decide when and if the Gov't is stretching the law too far.

The constitution says no military and nothing even military-like should exist. The US Gov't strong armed/persuaded Japan to create the SDF via loopholes and the people didn't mind. That's their choice.

Now, the Gov't (probably with a US push) is considering stretching the law even more and, again, the people are to decide whether it is acceptable or not.

Again, I don't care if Japan has an army or not. If the will of the people is to have an army, go for it. If the will of the people is not to, that's fine too- either way, the Gov't should adhere to the will of her people...else what's the point of a democracy?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

why should japan be stuck to the past? almost every country in the world has similar laws that allow for this type of military action. even switzerland has this defense capability!

Nakanoguy, because the constitution forbids it, and Abe is not going through a legitimate constitutional amendment process to change it. Because if article 9 can be "reinterpreted" away by the sitting government, so can any other article that Team Abe finds bothersome, as Mr. Isozaki so foolishly admitted. Team Abe wants this to be a national security argument, but it's MUCH more than that. This is about a constitutions inherent purpose of constraining government power, and Team Abe's attempt to sidestep those constraints. If they succeed here, next on the list will be lowering the bar for constitutional revision. All you need to do to see where they want to go is read the draft constitution that will dramatically increase state power and authority. That constitution does indeed talk about rights, but also makes very clear that those rights are granted by the state, and are NOT INHERENT. As in the government gets to define how, when, and where those rights apply. In other words, it's very similar to Gen Nakatani's Diet testimony, which to paraphrase, goes something like this: "Well, yeah...technically we "could do _____, but don't worry, we won't!" That's why the lawyers are jumping on board.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@Nigelboy: What are you talking about? I put up facts and that's your response?

Just wanted to know what your stance was.

FYI, the right of self defense was not ruled to be unconstitutional. The debate has been already addressed before so no need to repeat the same arguments.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/abe-defends-security-legislation#comment_2022517

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@Nigelboy: As I said, it is up to the will of the people to decide.

Honestly it's all very similar to how MANY of Japanese loopholes work, such as Gambling.

With Pachinko, technically, you're not gambling, you're just playing with metal balls and there happens to be a second, completely separate entity nearby that happens to buy the balls from you (and sell them back to the main pachinko shop)

Or, in Osaka how one goes to a certain place and pays 1-20,000 yen to eat a crappy snack but, because the random girl your eating with really likes you, agrees to have sex. Nope! No prostitution here folks!

Loopholes Nigel, Japan loves loopholes. Consider me skeptical about the Japanese Gov'ts ruling about whether or not SDF is unconstitutional.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Loopholes Nigel, Japan loves loopholes.

pachinko parlors are run by Koreans, and the the eating places like you said in Osaka may be so too. Some people like to find loopholes in Japan's law. Not Japan loves loopholes.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Why is it that some posters feel Japan is being pushed to fight US wars if that's the case I could say the very same people expect the U.S. To defend Japan should China or any of the Koreas attack them. Sad though

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I bet you China and South Korea never pick up news like this. It's all "those Japanese ALL want to go to war again" and "they never learned anything from their eternal crimes.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Next time around, send them to negotiate with China, N.Korea, or Russia about their aggressiveness against Japan. If no result, maybe they should disbar themselves? A strong deterrence capability can exist to prevent war, and not making war as claimed by many! Japan belongs to world community and must not act for self interest alone.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@Misunderstood: Not sure I understand your point.

I mean, when your ally goes under attack aren't you supposed to defend them? And aren't the current treaties written so that, in fact, USA would defend Japan?

And, from USA's pov, why wouldn't you want a good friend that you can tap for men/resources if it were available? There's nothing to lose for USA in Japan getting war capability.

It's all just a matter of whether or not the Japanese people want it and whether or not the Gov't will honor that desire.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

kaynideAUG. 27, 2015 - 10:21AM JST

I'm simply writing what the Japanese constitution says, and what is painfully obvious. It is up to the Japanese people, and not this one simple foreigner, to decide when and if the Gov't is stretching the law too far.

Here's the problem. Separate from whether this is a good idea for Japan, in terms of constitutionality, once you've accepted the SDF as a legal existence, you are effectively restrained to interpretations of the text that permit the SDF.

However, within those interpretations, there is no particular reason why an interpretation that allows for collective self defence is less correct than one that only allows individual self defence.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

These are probably the same lawyers and so-called scholars who deny that comfort women never existed and that atrocities were never committed by japan during WW2.

Didn't Abe's little puppet show convince them? (Remember both the american & japanese firefighterswere both extinguishing the flames?) What a circus.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Why is Abe so content with going ahead with this bill which puts to risk the childern of Japan?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Misunderstood, it's actually pretty simple. A great many Japanese people see the U.S. as more than complicit in Abe's dream to end "Peace Country Japan" and that this complicity is to further US imperial interests via a new branch of the U.S. Military called the Japanese Self Defense Forces. (Taro Yamamoto showed in the Diet that the security legislation is quite literally the "Recommendations for Japan" from the 2012 CSIS Armitage/Nye Report, though I'm not sure even Joe Nye and Dick Armitage are comfortable with the open ended nature of pretty much everything Abe does. For example, they say explicitly that "Japan's peace constitution should not be changed," but that is precisely what Abe wants to do. And I seriously doubt that they intended for "better protection of classified information" to be turned into an open ended state secrets law used silence damn near anything the government finds annoying)

Disagree or not, this is being seen as U.S. Empire crushing the Japanese "peace" dream, largely because Abe wants to sit at the big boys table. (Yup folks, good ol' pride and ego to the rescue!)Yamamoto, who is becoming quite the thorn in Abe's side (though you wouldn't know it from if you get your news from NHK or Yomiuri. Protesters have been showing up at NHK recently in an effort to stop being ignored) pointed out a rather unflattering historical fact about the U.S. We have been engaged in combat somewhere in the world for 93% of our history. So as far as lovers of "Peace Japan" are concerned, the U.S. is anything but peaceful. To them, we destroyed the country in war, and now will help/prod Abe to destroy the peace-centric polity that came about as a response to that destruction. Man, we look great! And you wonder why the people of "peace Japan" don't want the SDF wedded to Washington?

As Kaynide pointed out, it's about the will of the people, and a great many Japanese see the U.S. as behind Abe in his casual disregard for that will. Can't say I disagree with them. I think Washington is seriously gambling with its strategic position in Asia right now by sticking with Abe. Might be high time to offer Shinzo a face saving (and U.S. butt covering) retreat by at least publicly offering to unilaterally withdraw from this collective security deal. Because if Abe successfully rams this thing through, your going to see the U.S. become pretty damned unpopular here, and that's real bad news for the long term stability of the alliance, (Henoko? Yeah, right...with a large part of the country firmly behind them, the Okinawans aren't gonna budge.) and ain't the best of news for we Americans that live here, either.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

" Left wing nuts with a license to practise law " - as opposed to right wing nuts with Internet access?

" Idiots without responsibility for national security " - Funny, the present national security arrangements seem to have worked just fine for the past 70 years, unless you have some top notch secret info that proves otherwise?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Tell the lawyers to get ready to put on army uniform and gun etc. They a dump lawyers. US soldiers sacrifice their life to come and protect Japan without condition. Why don't Japan to the same.??? All of our weak neighbors worry about China too..Abe want to show China they won't do it to Japan and Japan can help the world to maintain peace. We need to march with time according what happen at our next door. Those lawyer and scholars need to wake up.. You don't argue with your piece of paper and good reasoning when you face with reality.(enemy with gun). Let the bills pass and pack the US made constitution send back to US or dump it on the rubbish bin.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Do not be disappointed. Japan should act as not standard! Respected Japanese government, you should assess for this (first) your national mentality of thinking - this is what you are inside. You have very strong traditional sustainable features mentality of the Japanese nation. It's fine. But tight national mentality of thinking has a negative trait - closing (denying) the future for their country. The mentality of the nation's thinking, unfortunately, bears (in itself) the costs for the nation's future. These costs harm the future of the country. This feature gives you the motivation to wrong actions - primarily for government. For this reason, the government behaves as a craftsman (a good craftsman), but not as a strategic manager. Therefore, the government, as they say, "does not see the forest for the trees" - the future of his people, the new direction of development of the history of the Japanese people. It is not the fault of the government. It's too hard confident character of the whole nation. This is a nice feature, but for the successful future of the nation need to add flexibility to the mentality of thinking. Because not have direct paths in the history of nations. If it is determined weighted reasonable flexibility in the actions of the Japanese government, the Japanese people, the future will be transformed and become predictable. There is a way for Japan - a great way out. But there is not standard - for this you need to work intelligently. I lit (as a thesis) this is my opinion, as "responsible proposal" and to right it (a week ago), in three major Japanese newspapers. I ask why the Japanese government "gives" nature (for natural disasters occurring) over 30 trillion yen annually? People are dying. The territory of Japan is destroyed .. Nature kills Japan. And business is suffering. The future of Japan is seen lackluster. Why do the people of Japan is silent today? After all, there is a way. Successful and reliable way to get rid of such a state almost from such an unpredictable life. . Bright future for all Japanese people have. My questions are addressed to Japan for this journey. This way, this way there is a non-traditional and non-standard. In - the first, because it offers a foreigner. Who can take seriously in Japan today, this output from a foreigner? The government? Parliament? Who can seriously consider my proposal? Japan! - Your future rested in your thinking mentality. Engage, please, your lateral thinking and you'll help the future of their nation. Do not worry, please do unconventionally: to rebel against certain "properties" of your thinking mentality of the nation. But please remember - you have very little time (how much? - I do not know, but I know - it is very small). This is evident from the behavior of your neighbors. The more you ignore me, the worse will be the Japanese people. I advise you to drop the national ambitions (in this case) and begin to cooperate with me (for the sake of the future of the Japanese people). With best regards, Aleksandr Solodilov (LinkedIn).

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

nakanoguy01 AUG. 27, 2015 - 09:50AM JST Why should japan be stuck to the past? almost every country in the world has similar laws that allow for this type of military action. even switzerland has this defense capability!

Japan chooses to stick to the past by remembering the nuclear blast event. You don't deserve to be selective with the history. Either remember everything or forget all the events.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@Nigelboy: As I said, it is up to the will of the people to decide.

It is. But the security bill in of itself is not up to public referendum.

These so-called lawyers and scholars can shout all they want and question the constitutionality but the bottom line is, such ultimate decision can only be made by the Supreme Court.

As Kazuaki Shimazaki alluded to already, the right of 'self defense' was ruled constitutional. If you allow 'self defense' in general, I see no legal hurdles to why a 'limited collective' self defense would not be allowed under the same Supreme Court interpretation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"These so-called lawyers and scholars can shout all they want and question the constitutionality but the bottom line is, such ultimate decision can only be made by the Supreme Court." - comments

Sorry for the intrusion, is the concept of Democracy used to better understand that Abe's thrust is not welcomed by the Japanese People?

Where are the crowds shouting for aggression?

Where is the logic of aggression?

Is Japan stronger because she uses her mind and not the fallacy of some promised narrow aggression?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@marcelitoAUG. 27, 2015 - 03:54PM JST

" Idiots without responsibility for national security " - Funny, the present national security arrangements seem to have worked just fine for the past 70 years, unless you have some top notch secret info that proves otherwise?

What worked in the past 70 (more like 60, actually - surely the years under Occupation don't count) years is keeping the alliance with the US. So the security arrangements are fine as long as America is willing to eat them. It doesn't take a genius to see, however, that the US is overall getting both less able and willing to cut that kind of deal.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Just one point.

What does Japan get from this Trojan shield Constitution?

Where are the interests of the Japanese People in this? Is nothing else possible? Abe or the Highway?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sorry for the intrusion

No need to apologize. Even in a democracy, many policies both domestic and foreign are implemented against the public opinion.

Self Defense Forces Act, revamped U.S. Security Agreement , and Act on Cooperation for United Nations Peacekeeping Operations, all of which were debated and argued that they were 'unconstitutional' and with threats of Japan going back to the old days proved to be false. Can you imagine what state Japan would have been without the first two especially during the Cold War era?

As the U.N. Charter states, "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs..". Japan is simply moving closer towards being a 'normal' country.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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