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LDP lawmaker apologizes for saying 'women lie' about sexual assaults

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Sugita's toxicity is beyond the Pale. Why is she still there?

8 ( +15 / -7 )

"women might make false reports of sexual violence"

I don't understand why is that considered a contentious statement. Women are humans and they're as likely to lie about anything as men.

-2 ( +16 / -18 )

Sadly his line of thought is not rare there.

-19 ( +3 / -22 )

I don't understand why is that considered a contentious statement. Women are humans and they're as likely to lie about anything as men.

@RT - So you would have no problem if she had said "foreigners in Japan might commit crimes".

After all foreigners are human too and might commit crimes like any other human beings..?

People in positions of leadership need to understand that their words carry more weight (which is why we're discussing it here a week later), and choose their words carefully.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Sadly his line of thought is not rare there.

Whose line of thought and where? You seem to be making a blanket statement, which you constantly accuse others of doing so you can disparage them, but your writing lacks clarity.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

As a law maker the comments made are bizarre and should make this person ineligible for such a role as lawmaker. But it's Japan and probably get a promotion.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

“A Cabinet Office survey in 2017 showed one in every 20 people have been forced to have sexual intercourse against their will”

Hard to believe since I haven’t. Have you ever been?

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

"Women can tell lies as much as they want," 

Sure. Hey wait Mio...you’re a woman. So, are you lying right now? It’s like you said, women can lie as much as they want.

Not sure why she is emphasizing “women” lying. It’s not as if lying is a trait unique to women.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@Heckleberry

" So you would have no problem if she had said "foreigners in Japan might commit crimes".

I think her point was that just because a woman claims that a man has sexually assaulted her, does not mean her words should be taken for granted and the man should automatically be labeled as a criminal. For example, some men may take advantage of crowded trains to touch women, but on the other hand we all heard stories of women accusing innocent men of such crimes. If you were standing in a crowded train and the woman standing in front of you accused you of sexually assaulting her, would you be OK if the police believed her?

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

@oldman_13Today  06:59 am JST

Sadly his line of thought is not rare there.

“Mio” is a woman.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

but on the other hand we all heard stories of women accusing innocent men of such crimes

Very very rare occurence. Nothing like the daily sexual assault that actually goes on that you don't seem concerned about.

What is common is seeing people online accusing women of lying without any proof, backup, facts, at all.

Do please provide links to a few cases of false accusations that have occurred this year. Not all cases, just a few - let's say five.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

"Very very rare occurence. Nothing like the daily sexual assault that actually goes on that you don't seem concerned about."

All I want is fairness. And you cannot have fairness if you refuse to acknowledge that women are human beings and may lie.

If a drunk couple went to a hotel room and the next morning the woman accused the man of sexually assaulting her while she was drunk. The man, on the other hand, claimed that it was a consensual sexual activity. Why should I believe one side and not the other?

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

RT - 'If' and your wondering imagination are meaningless. Please post facts, cases, links, news articles, to the most recent cases of proven false accusations this year. Like I said, no need to overdo it, just five will do.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

There may very well be cases of sexual abuse that were made up as a type of revenge. However, it is not for this mullet to say. It is up to the courts.

Just another LDP member putting his mouth into gear without engaging his brain.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

"Please post facts, cases, links, news articles, to the most recent cases of proven false accusations this year"

Anytime you cannot answer a simple question, you resort to "give me links, facts, cases". Cannot you imagine such a likely situation and tell me your opinion? It is a hypothetical situation, I do not care to search for a "news article".

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

What a shame. He has no morals.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"However, it is not for this mullet to say. It is up to the courts."

Exactly.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

If a drunk couple went to a hotel room and the next morning the woman accused the man of sexually assaulting her while she was drunk. The man, on the other hand, claimed that it was a consensual sexual activity. Why should I believe one side and not the other?

Because being drunk is one of the conditions that can make impossible to give consent. If the man accepts the woman was drunk he is implicitly accepting she may not be in capacity to consent.

Mental incapacity includes any condition “which prevents a person from understanding the nature or consequences of the act of sexual intercourse,” and it can result from the “influence of a substance” such as alcohol or drugs. Whether someone is mentally incapacitated due to intoxication can be much harder to discern, particularly if both parties are drinking.

In your situation he insist it was consensual, so even being sober he is fine with the sex, the woman is not. Thus it is perfectly reasonable to at least investigate if she was or not in conditions to accept having sex. This is by now common sense and something anybody should have in mind when in company of a drunk person.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

People say that because that is what they would do.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"In your situation he insist it was consensual, so even being sober he is fine with the sex, the woman is not"

What if they both were drunk?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The problem with one not being able to consent when drunk comes when both parties are drunk. How can two non-consenting parties have sex?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Women are usually on the receiving end of sexual assaults so naturally their claims are more numerous and the onus is on them to prove the veracity of their allegations. Conversely, the perpetrators of assaults are overwhelmingly male so common sense would tell us that men are even more likely to deny their culpability than women lie about their assaulter. That said, she said, he said is a tough nut which #metoo, for all its good intentions, will be unable to crack. The propensity for violence inherent in the sexual behavior of too many men still remains a challenge for society. More men must at least become educated to face up to their obligations as benefactors of their "male privilege" and women's right to social empowerment recognized in law and practice. Needless to say, women can abuse their power, too, to get what they want on the merry-go-round of living. But as James Thurber's "Unicorn in the Garden" illustrates, lying is not yet an equal opportunity for women.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

RT. Today 06:53 am JST

"women might make false reports of sexual violence"

I don't understand why is that considered a contentious statement. Women are humans and they're as likely to lie about anything as men.

Lying is always contextual. That is, people lie for many different reasons. In this particular instance, Sugita is saying that women in particular lie specifically about sexual assault.

The first problem with this is that it is false - stats say there are very few false reports. Sugita is a lawmaker, and as such has a responsibility to know the facts before making such statements. But note that she did not admit that her statement was false - she only apologized "if it offended people." That's her way of continuing to push a false statement while at the same time pretending that's not what she's doing.

The second reason this statement is problematic is because it is based on a misogynistic attitude towards women. We all know that whenever women report any sex crime to the police they are doubted, debased, demeaned, questioned, and often just plain ignored. Even though rape is a very common crime, it rarely is prosecuted. Women are not believed, so many just don't report. This is because when they do report, they are very often harassed and called liars. Case in point, even though it was proven in court, people are still saying Shiori Ito lied.

When a lawmaker makes a statement like this, it's damaging to all women. It causes doubt, it debases women, it supports the narrative that women lie about sexual assault, and it contributes to a culture that allows rape to continue and rapists to flourish.

Meiyouwenti posted,

“A Cabinet Office survey in 2017 showed one in every 20 people have been forced to have sexual intercourse against their will”

Hard to believe since I haven’t. Have you ever been?

but he is asking the wrong people. He should be asking women if they have ever experienced sexual assault. Even though men also experience sexual assault, it's at much lower numbers than women. That stat, one in 20, is actually wrong. The true stat for experiences of sexual assault is 1 in 3. So if you ask a woman if she has ever experienced sexual assault, it is highly likely she will say yes - because almost every woman has experienced some form of sexual assault, and many have experienced rape. #metoo #wetoo

Casting doubt on women is one way women are forced to be silent about their experiences. The reason women are forced into silence is purely because men don't want to admit that other men rape. There is a knee-jerk reaction among people to automatically come to the defense of people who are in their tribe. In this case, men coming to the defense of men. That's a huge problem. You should be able to condemn the actions of those in your tribe when those people have done wrong. If you can't, you are siding with them and against their victims - which means you are no better than they are because you are enabling them.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

I guess that so many people are worked up over this can be considered progress? Idk, but yes women lie and I personally know of one. It is too bad because it makes it worse for those who are victims. Just being female is not a "victim" although some females want it that way. But that is another story.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

What if they both were drunk?

Again, if both are drunk they both may have not weighted consequences properly and in that case consent would not be given. He is now sober and he insist sex was consensual, that means that drunk or sober his judgment about it is the same. It is a perfectly good argument against him if he were to accuse the woman of rape.

She on the other hand says that the sex was not consensual, that would mean it is perfectly possible she was unable to give consent due to mental incapacity/impairment due to the alcohol.

The problem with one not being able to consent when drunk comes when both parties are drunk. How can two non-consenting parties have sex?

illegaly?

Seriously, it means that both would have a reason to say the sex was not consensual. In that case the "defense" of the partner would be that he (or she) was too drunk to notice the other person could not give consent, that does not really amount to much.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

If BOTH have been drinking or really drunk, then it is pretty much ALWAYS the mans ""fault""

Note above I am talking about above posts, in the article the woman from the ldp, while technically true, should clearly have not said what she said

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

There may very well be cases of sexual abuse that were made up as a type of revenge. However, it is not for this mullet to say. It is up to the courts.

Great post.

Judge each case on its individual merits. The idea of tipping the scales in favour of someone based on their sex isn’t something which belongs in a civilized country.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

How can two non-consenting parties have sex?

Generally speaking, they start by removing their clothes. Then, providing the male is not completely flaccid, he proceeds to insert...

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

As a politician she really should do something about it, that's her job after all. Brainless talk, not really helping anything. Look above some people are actually supporting rape others not so much. I would suggest a functioning justice system to sort this out. But I'm not a politician so no chance that will happen. Can't even vote.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It is a hypothetical situation, I do not care to search for a "news article".

Yes, it is a hypothetical situation, ie nothing to do with this article at all. We are dealing with When a woman is raped or otherwise sexually assaulted, she is so often immediately doubted, disbelieved, and humiliated that most women don't report the attacks.

We don't have to imagine this. Your make-believe is introduced here for the sole purpose of derailing the discussion and placing doubt on actual victims.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

A gaffe-prone lawmaker of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party

A female version of Aso and Mori?

"I am sorry for offending people by giving the impression that only women lie when lying is not restricted to a gender,"

Sweet lord, she just doesn't get it. She is STILL implying that female victims lie. While women aren't the only ones who lie, I don't think most people lie when they're say they've been sexually assaulted. Just a small nasty minority, and that should not put off real victims from coming forward.

I hope whatever man was lumbered with her never beats her black and blue. She might get accused of lying if she ever made a complaint.

I often think that these people suffered some traumatic childhood experience or some other experience to make them into these nasty, unsympathetic creatures. The same goes for that biracial female lawmaker who, perhaps due to school bullying and racial discrimination, flipped 180, and promotes racial hatred herself in order to fit in with the group.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Cannot you imagine such a likely situation and tell me your opinion? 

Because it is not at all likely. That is my opinion. You can't even find a recent report of one.

I know of one well-known case, and if someone hasn't already mentioned it here they probably will. It dates back over a decade ago.

What is also not mentioned re. chikan is that "false accusation" often means mistaken identity, ie not that the woman was lying, but that someone else groped her.

What is also not mentioned re. rape and sexual assault is that a shocking number of people are not sure how to define it, and consider sex as an almost compulsory part of a dinner date. Also that the victim is encouraged to drop the case at almost every step of the way - the police, family and friends.

When a woman reports an assault or rape she is doubted, but when a man denies committing sexual assault or rape he is believed. This is some prime double-standard misogyny.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"Sugita's statement is inexcusable hate speech that constitutes a form of 'second rape' of victims of sexual violence and which seriously falls short of the sensitivity demanded by the international community," the group said in a statement.

Let's look at this situation! How many men are in jail for a woman making a false claim (exaggerated truth/twisted story) of rape? And how many women are in jail because a man falsely claimed that she raped him?

Especially here in Japan, if a woman claimed "He raped me!" even though he didn't and she knew he didn't, the man is immediately treated as a criminal with little to no proof or evidence which means the whole case can be developed based on whatever she says. Now in NO WAY AT ALL am I saying "all women lie in cases of rape", not what I am saying to the least bit. I am saying that it happens and we all know it.

This story kinda hit home because my most bestest friend (like my brother) from England was arrested in Okayama because he was at a bar with a woman he met here in Japan. They got into a small disagreement because he didn't want to pay the full bill that she racked up. She then stood up and said "NOOO! Don't touch me there! Rape!" in a bar with many people. Some guys in the bar came and held him until the police came, She told them that he tried to rape her (even though they both were fully clothed in a public place) took him away roughly and he was locked up for 5 and a half months, lost his job, apartment and all his belongings (car, tv, deposit, everything) until she told the truth that he didn't rape her. The police told her off, let him go, put him on a flight and told never come back to Japan because he's on a "Rapist list" even though they KNOW he didn't do it and she made it up. The man was absolutely devastated. He told me about how many times he told the police he didn't do anything and how he was treated as a "gaijin rapist" in prison. He said he didn't even get an apology from her or the police.

So you see, its not hate speech! Mio is being criticized for speaking the truth about SOME women.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

"We are dealing with When a woman is raped or otherwise sexually assaulted"

No, we are not dealing with "when", we are dealing with "if". The verdict is in the hands of the court, not the woman or the man.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

She should resign, not fit for office.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The issue with the statement itself is that it comes from Sugita. The article already gave such an example. Calling couples unproductive since they can't bear children (because of their sexual orientation) and therefore are not worth taxpayer investment. Or saying that there were clear errors on Shiori Itō's part since she drank alcohol with that guy. Oh, she apparently also laughed at an illustration with a woman with the likeness of Itō that also read "failure at sleeping around for business". Apparently since it's again something she denies doing.

If any other person said that women lie when it comes to sexual assault, you could give them the benefit of doubt. But a person that repeatedly says such stuff and alwasy ends up apologizing (often because it she was misunderstood and so on) does not deserve this. Considering that it was during a briefing about caring for the victims of violence and sexual violence against women says a lot. She is right that there are some women that lie about sexual assault and rape. Yes, it is important to talk about it. It has a negative effect on both real victims and falsely accused, since it damages the credibility of the former and can destroy the life of the latter. But there is a time and place to talk about it and a briefing where you talk about actual victims is certainly not the right place nor the right time for it...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

When a woman reports an assault or rape she is doubted, but when a man denies committing sexual assault or rape he is believed.

Wow, talk about a sweeping statement. I don’t understand how any man has ever been convicted of sexual assault or rape if this were the case.

Who is automatically doubting the woman and believing the men here? All men? Mio Sugita? The courts?

What happens in the case of men sexually assaulting men? Do they ( whomever you are talking about ) believe both? How about women sexually assaulting other women? Do they ( whomever you are talking about ) doubt both?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Not as bad as men, who boast about it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A resignation perhaps?

Or is that losing face?

This is beyond.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

ir_bentley28Today 11:11 am JST

Let's look at this situation! How many men are in jail for a woman making a false claim (exaggerated truth/twisted story) of rape?

Very, very few, because not only are false accusations rare in and of themselves, it's even rarer for the police to be unable to spot false accusations, even rarer still for the case to go to court, and still even rarer for a conviction to happen.

And how many women are in jail because a man falsely claimed that she raped him?

Same answer as above, only even rarer since men overwhelmingly commit the most numbers of rape.

Especially here in Japan, if a woman claimed "He raped me!" even though he didn't and she knew he didn't, the man is immediately treated as a criminal with little to no proof or evidence which means the whole case can be developed based on whatever she says. Now in NO WAY AT ALL am I saying "all women lie in cases of rape", not what I am saying to the least bit. I am saying that it happens and we all know it.

This is completely inaccurate. The vast majority of the time when women report rape, they are discouraged from even pressing charges because of the difficulty of prosecuting. The victim has to actively push to have charges pressed, then the prosecutor decides if the case has enough evidence to pursue it. Because there often isn't cut and dry evidence, only a very small percentage even reaches court, and of those, a small percentage result in conviction. This is a matter of public record and easy to check, so I'm not sure why you don't know this and/or failed to research it before making a post.

He told me about how many times he told the police he didn't do anything and how he was treated as a "gaijin rapist" in prison. He said he didn't even get an apology from her or the police.

The way you describe it, this guy was in a bar when the woman accused him. They weren't even alone together, yet somehow the police believed her and arrested your friend, who was in jail for 5 months awaiting trail. Then he was not charged, and told to leave Japan.

If this story is true, then it's more about racism in Japan than it is about how rape is prosecuted.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Jimizo Today 12:22 pm JST

Wow, talk about a sweeping statement. I don’t understand how any man has ever been convicted of sexual assault or rape if this were the case.

Men rarely are prosecuted for rape, as most cases don't reach that stage - so your statement - I don’t understand how any man has ever been convicted of sexual assault or rape - is indeed correct, sir.

Who is automatically doubting the woman and believing the men here? All men? Mio Sugita? The courts?

Well, in the case of Shiori Ito:

The police, who didn't even want to make a report and only did so when pressed and then had to be pushed every step of the way to investigate

The prosecutors, who wouldn't even arrest the rapist once evidence was found

The public, as she was continually harassed online and on social media, as well as in the press.

Many of her colleagues, who were loath to think Yamaguchi was capable of rape

Is that clear enough for you?

What happens in the case of men sexually assaulting men? Do they ( whomever you are talking about ) believe both? How about women sexually assaulting other women? Do they ( whomever you are talking about ) doubt both?

Actually, men rarely even report being raped. One reason is because until about a year ago, the definition of rape didn't include things like forced oral sex or forced anal sex. Those were assault, not rape. Now though, the law has changed so hopefully this kind of rape will be prosecuted.

Women so very very rarely rape other women that it is just statistically nil.

But yes, generally speaking people always doubt the victim and there are several reasons for that. The most common being misogyny - which works against men as well as women, since men are loath to report rape because men are not supposed to be weak or vulnerable in the way women are. That means men are often too ashamed to report.

Then there's the homophobia that often surrounds such cases, which also has roots in misogyny.

A final reason is that many people just do not want to believe that their friend/boss/acquaintance/brother/whoever is capable of such an act. It is really tough to think that someone you know is that kind of person, so the knee-jerk reaction is to doubt or blame the victim.

Sexual assault victims of all genders and sexualities are doubted pretty much automatically, and one of the reasons is the false narrative about the supposed prevalence of false accusations that is continually pushed by people like Sugita. That is why her statement must be soundly condemned and the record needs to be set straight - that most reports of sexual assault, like most reports of robbery, arson, or other crimes, are not false.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Still no facts to back up RT's claims and unpleasant imaginings. How very current.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I guess men would never lie.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I remember those cautianury tales about women when I was a teenager, girls would ovulate and become more aggressive and assertive, next thing you know an accident happens, she gets pregnant, parents find out, naturally she is pure and innocent an can do no wrong, so rape claims come and then your in prison.

moral of the story get the consent on video

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I remember an acquaintance that I hadn't seen a while and when asked why, said he was in jail on rape charges not prosecuted just charged. He said that he was out drinking one night picked up a some woman and when to a hotel. A week later he is arrested charged by the husband. Seems the husband found out and when he pressured the wife the wife claimed she was raped. He was cleared but lost his job spent time in jail and was out 10 man for the lawyer.

The story was one sided so cant judge or verify or anything, but I heard random similar things about married women that its a good time until the husband finds out.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

A guy that I used to talk to that was doing the Tokyo scene, told me how he framed everything in terms of liability. He said that when he used to do random hooks ups he would do a 2 steps fwd 1 step back method, meaning once the womyn was aroused he would step back and let her initiate physical contact and then he said they would start by letting her on top first.

So when if 3 months later if changed her mind about consent becuase of something on social media or becuase her friends disaproved of the encounter she would not have a base to stand on, since she started contact and was on top first.

Which could also be turned around on her and make her the perp.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

From what I have read, most women never report a sexual assault, for several reasons. Thus, the odds are much greater that an assault will happen and not get reported, than that it will not happen and get reported.

This is not to say that false reports of sexual assaults never happen, just that any particular report of sexual assault is more likely to be trustworthy than not, and thus one should never go into an investigation assuming a false report. A woman has to be very brave to put up with the condemnation that will likely come her way after she makes a claim of assault.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

gaicuckojinToday 07:10 pm JST

I remember those cautianury tales about women when I was a teenager, girls would ovulate and become more aggressive and assertive, next thing you know an accident happens, she gets pregnant, parents find out, naturally she is pure and innocent an can do no wrong, so rape claims come and then your in prison.

It's interesting to hear how misogyny makes it way from father to son.

moral of the story get the consent on video

Seems to me the moral of the story is not to rape women.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"and thus one should never go into an investigation assuming a false report"

I agree with you. Likewise, an investigation should not start with the assumption that the man is at fault.

The couple of women commenting here are not able to understand this simple point.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's interesting to hear how misogyny makes it way from father to son.

Or how misandry is allowed as the norm from mother to daughter

Seems to me the moral of the story is not to rape women.

or rape men, or manipulate, or ruin peoples life, or chastise, or hate based on sex,

were all in this together : )

1 ( +1 / -0 )

R. T.Oct. 2 11:12 pm JST

"and thus one should never go into an investigation assuming a false report"

I agree with you. Likewise, an investigation should not start with the assumption that the man is at fault.

The couple of women commenting here are not able to understand this simple point.

I'm not sure why you would say "the women commenting here are not able to understand this simple point" when you have not brought up nor attempted to discuss this point with either of us. You are only assuming; and not only are you assuming, you are making a negative assumption based on no evidence.

This is ironic considering that you are advocating for non-biased investigations based on fact instead of assumptions of guilt.

Now I will explain my actual position, and if you are at all honest you will apologize for jumping the gun and making assumptions:

I believe all police investigations should be completely neutral, unbiased, fact-based and objective, without any presumption of guilt or innocence.

The problem is that this is near impossible to achieve because human beings are not capable of being completely objective. This is why we have courts, where guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It's a system of checks and balances in the hope that the truth may prevail.

However, while we can hope that police will be as unbiased as possible, and the court system will work as it is intended to work, we all know that guilty people sometimes go free and innocent people are sometimes convicted. This is a tragedy.

As a result, it is hard to fully trust the court system. People are fallible; they make mistakes. But I think it is safe to say this: the vast majority of people are honest enough not to accuse others of crimes that the person did not commit, and the police are skilled at discerning when someone is lying. The numbers of false accusations are low, and the number of people who wind up in court because of a false accusation is even lower. Which is why makings statements like:

"women might make false reports of sexual violence"

I don't understand why is that considered a contentious statement. Women are humans and they're as likely to lie about anything as men.

Is a show of bias, and not of fact. So if you are at all honest and if your wish for neutrally, objectivity, and fact-based investigations is sincere, you will retract that comment at once.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

gaicuckojinOct. 2 11:16 pm JST

Or how misandry is allowed as the norm from mother to daughter

I'd be interested to see which of my comments you consider to be misandry. I think it is fairly easy to dismiss this statement as you attempting to turn the tables by making false counter-accusations.

or rape men, or manipulate, or ruin peoples life, or chastise, or hate based on sex,

were all in this together : )

I don't think we are all in this together at all. Your comments make it clear that you refuse to accept the fact that false accusations are exceedingly rare, and your only counter argument to that fact is to counter-accuse women of misandry.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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