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LDP lawmakers to set up group to promote Japan's defense exports

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@ossan and desert, you sound like you work for the Japanese government. I've never heard so much pro Japan sabre rattling in many a year.

If Japan is so great and so advanced in military equipment, why do they hide behind America? No amount of links and technical talk can persuade people that Japan doesn't.

I fear for the world with an active Japan in the military world. Don't trust them at all.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

CrickyJan. 20  05:34 pm JST

Ok I get it, Japan was a victim, their surprise attacks were just a defence.,

No, you don't get it at all. You should try actually studying history.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Action men making changes overnight.

Afterburnes at 10,000, All turbo boosters on. Signed and Hanko'd

When there's Loot to rake off the line… No Urges, no considers, no messing around, no carefully.

Pay the Looters!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Ok I get it, Japan was a victim, their surprise attacks were just a defence., LDP law makers set up a group to promote weapons sales? Japan wants to sell death, then send tanks to the Ukrainians. If they function people will buy them if they are better, cheaper than the South Korean black panther. I have to point out that Japan in the last 40 years has not managed to get a contract for military equipment. Thank you for the education.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

CrickyToday  04:30 pm JST

Name another country that has a constitution banning war,? name another country historically known for surprise attacks? Its history is the reason for that constitution article 9. Cannot trust Japan it’s politicians to make a right choice.

Allow me to educate you. In 1945 the US was already in a "war" with the USSR, who had swallowed up Eastern Europe while claiming liberation. And they held East Germany.

A top priority for the United States was to keep Japan from falling into the Soviet sphere. The USSR as one of the allied victors demanded that the Emperor Hirohito be charged and tried as a war criminal. The US concluded that if that should happen there was a liklihood of a civil war breaking out in Japan and it would allow the Soviets to establish a communist regime in Japan. Article 9 was created by the US to appease the USSR and prevent their infiltration into Japan. It was sold to the other Allied powers as a restraint on further Japanese militarism. But just 5 years later in 1950, the US literally forced Japan to create the JSDF. Germany (West) was not permitted to have an army until 1956.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Name another country that has a constitution banning war,? name another country historically known for surprise attacks? Its history is the reason for that constitution article 9. Cannot trust Japan it’s politicians to make a right choice.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Japan tries so hard to break into the defense industry when it can't even sustain its electronics and semiconductors industry which were once its core advantages. It barely sustains the automotive industry in the wake of the EV revolution.

As @SamitBasu said, Japan currently has no chance and should focus on being a world haven for tourists and foreign financiers.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

@Desert Tortoise

I don't understand what you are trying to claim here.

It is a fact that Japan to this date has never exported any warship for money, it only donated retiring ships to 3rd world countries.

You talk about how Mogami was better than Fremm, yet the US chose Fremm, not Mogami.

Very similar story with the previous Aussie submarine contest where the Aussie government DROPPED SORYU FIRST without asking for a price quote; the condition of Soryu was such that Australia didn't even need to ask for a price, they were never going to buy it.

You talk about the Royal Navy, the same navy that bought warships from Korea but NEVER from Japan. Why is that? Heck, the Royal Navy even wanted to built Queen Elizabeth class carriers in Korea but moved back to UK after domestic political protest.

You need to accept the cold hard fact that Japan is nobody in arms business with uncompetitive product.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Things may have changed since then, no? Do you have any more recent examples?

There hasn't been a naval war since then unless you count Operation Praying Mantis but the Europeans are still not building ships to the same high standards of the US and Japanese. That is why when the US Navy chose the design for the Fremm class for their new frigate the Italian and French designers had to add so much steel to their design. There were comments when the Norwegian frigate sank that the Spanish design the Norwegians bought had poor water tight integrity. Even as engineering compartments were sealed against flooding water poured through shaft seals that were supposed to be water tight, preventing the crew from saving the ship.

The attack on USS Cole shows how much damage a Burke class can absorb and not sink. Old USS Tripoli hit an Iraqi mine during Desert Storm blowing a 7x10 meter hole in the hull. The ship isolated the flooding and continued its mission. The missile that hit Sheffield didn't even explode. It was a dud. But the Brits could not control the fires. You go on modern European ships and you see wood paneling, false overheads (drop ceilings to use landlubber language), shiny wooden railings, carpets and the like. Aside from feeding a fire, all of that has to be chopped away to put out fires, plug leaking pipes or repair damaged wire runs and carpets can easily clog dewatering pumps. You don't see any decorative wood or carpets in US or Japanese ships.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The real money is in sales to the Middle East, and substantial backhanders are expected.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

That was 20 years ago. In the military weapons domain, Japan is a nobody with zero export record. 

Because until very recently Japan prohibited foreign military sales.

I have hands on experience with the JMSDF and a bunch of other western navies. I've deployed with the JMSDF. They are as well equipped as any navy in the world and better trained than most. You have zero hands on with them, no experience whatsoever so you cannot possibly comment knowledgeably. I have seen their ships up close and personal and they are superb. Better than the UK builds, better than the Italians build, better than the Germans build. The Japanese ships reflect the lessons of WWII in terms of their survivability features. The European ships put crew comfort ahead of survivability. The Japanese, like the US Navy, do not. The Europeans ships look stylish, have fancy interiors but they won't take hits. You do not see the firefighting and damage control equipment you see in US and Japanese ships. Look how easily HMS Sheffield was sunk. USS Stark was hit by two of the same missiles that sank Sheffield. Stark returned to the US under her own power. A Japanese ship taking the same hits would do as well as the Stark. And that is because US and Japanese ships have expensive features the European ships don't have, which is why US and Japanese ships are expensive compared to their European counterparts. Things like advanced water tight doors with special silicon seals that actually use flood water in the flooded compartment to tighten the seal, bulkhead thickness, sound powered phone systems dating from the early 20th century but they work when the power is out and can communicate through flooded or burned out compartments, etc, and those details matter. I had a Royal Navy officer laugh in my face when I asked them why they don't have sound powered phones like US and Japanese ships, but if you look at how Sheffield sank, the ability for their crew to communicate would not have been interrupted when the power went out and their walkie talkie batteries died, both of which doomed their damage control efforts (having every portable pump taken from four ships fail to operate didn't help). With sound powered phones they would not have lost comms. For the Fremm class to meet US survivability standards Fincantieri had to add over 300 tons of steel to the hull, and that adds cost. Japanese equipment is as good as anything the US Navy takes to sea ( built to the same NAVSEA standards) and they maintain their ships better than anyone does.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@Spitfire true that !

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

'Name another country that has a Constitution that prohibits starting wars.'

While at the same time hiding behind the coat-tails of another more powerful nation that isn't afraid of starting wars.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

EastmanToday  03:06 pm JST

what a "peace loving" nation!

Name another country that has a Constitution that prohibits starting wars.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

RodneyToday  11:51 am JST

Anybody who acts against Article 9 should face imprisonment as it is illegal under japan law.

Read Article 9 before commenting. Nothing in Article 9 refers to military equipment production or exports.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

what a "peace loving" nation!

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Anybody who acts against Article 9 should face imprisonment as it is illegal under japan law.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

As above Japan produces sub par weapons, South Korea has a defence industry that’s krushing it. Poland has ordered hundreds of tanks, rocket systems, Australia also has ordered hundreds, and that’s just the big orders. Japan if it wants to be serious needs to send tanks to the Ukrainian forces and prove their worth. Might get some orders then if they are a proven.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

@ReasonandWisdomNippon

Japanese technology is among the most advanced in the world. 

That was 20 years ago. In the military weapons domain, Japan is a nobody with zero export record. Oh, Japan did export a search radar set to the Philippines on an extremely favorable loan package, but that was it.

https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2021/12/29/despite-defense-buildup-japans-arms-industry-struggles/

Despite defense buildup, Japan’s arms industry struggles

Big Japanese defense manufacturers like Mitsubishi, IHI Corp. and Kawasaki Heavy Industries are struggling to sell 20th century tanks, aircraft and ships. They need to develop better technology to serve a military in the market for unmanned aircraft like Tritons made by Northrop Grumman and Boeing’s undersea Echo Voyager.

Likewise, Japan’s international arms sales have never really taken off. Uncompetitive, with high prices, aging technology and scant government support, arms makers in Japan increasingly are just withdrawing from the business.

People may think Japan has advanced technology and it can quickly catch up with others and start selling equipment if it only gets serious, but I think that’s wrong,” said Heigo Sato, an expert on defense issues and professor at Hokkaido’s Takushoku University. “The problem is, Japan’s defense products are not first grade. Nobody is interested in buying second- or third-grade products at higher prices.”

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

There is no Japanese weapon that foreign countries want

Japanese technology is among the most advanced in the world. Chemicals the most advanced in the world. Without them great S.Korea can't built anything, and has to come begging for more. Remember WTO complain.

Also easy for Koreans to win when Japan is pacifist and doesn't even try in the first place, easy to win without Japanese competition.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@Desert Tortoise

Indonesia is trying to procure eight Mogami Class frigates.

Actually Indonesia already chose FREMM over Mogami.

https://thediplomat.com/2021/06/indonesia-clinches-deal-for-8-italian-made-frigates/

Indonesia Clinches Deal for 8 Italian-Made Frigates

June 16, 2021

.

The US, UK and Australia formed AUKUS last year. Australia will buy nuclear subs from the US or UK.

You are not getting the context then. Australia is looking at issuing a no-bid emergency "Interim Stopgap" submarine order after the US told it couldn't deliver the submarine until 2040 and existing Collins class submarines are set to retire from 2028. There is an ongoing study within Australia regarding whether to refit Collins to last another 2 decades or order KSS-III Batch 2 from Korea for delivery by 2030, with the decision due in March of this year.

https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/forget-collins-lote-buy-new-submarines-from-korea-instead/

Forget Collins LOTE – buy new submarines from Korea instead

By Kym Bergmann -21/08/202250540

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/07/south-korea-offers-aussies-new-subs-in-7-years-to-close-collins-gap/

South Koreans offer Aussies new subs in 7 years to close Collins gap

As conversations at the Thursday dinner with the Korean ambassador, Jeong-sik Kang, and several senior Korean defense officials made crystal clear, any one defense program is less important to the Koreans than is building a broader and deeper defense relationship with Australia.

By  COLIN CLARK

on July 25, 2022 at 6:13 AM

Only two options are considered, Collins Refit or brand-new KSS-III Batch 2. They don't have the time to waste on another open bid contest.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Oh no! This is exactly what we don't want.

Once you have an arms industry, you will have politicians arguing for more arms to support factories in their districts. It's how you get a Military Industrial Complex. People end up supporting it because in poorer areas, arms manufacturing will equal desperately needed jobs. As if there is no other way to create them with the same huge amounts of money.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Btw, the Mogami class is among the most advanced if not the most advanced ASW frigates being built today.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

There is no Japanese weapon that foreign countries want.

Indonesia is trying to procure eight Mogami Class frigates.

https://thediplomat.com/2021/04/japan-could-deliver-8-cutting-edge-frigates-to-indonesia/

Likewise, Australia is considering sole source bid of Korea's KSS-III Batch 2 submarine after having rejected Soryu without asking price quotes during the last submarine contest that France won but went bust afterward.

Out of date. The US, UK and Australia formed AUKUS last year. Australia will buy nuclear subs from the US or UK.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

There is no Japanese weapon that foreign countries want. Japan first needs to have competitive weapon before a deal can be closed with government support.

UAE decided to join Korean military cargo aircraft program after evaluating Kawasaki C-2 since 2017.

https://topics.smt.docomo.ne.jp/article/recordchina/world/recordchina-RC_907815

UAEが日本からの輸送機輸入をやめ韓国と共同開発へ

Likewise, Australia is considering sole source bid of Korea's KSS-III Batch 2 submarine after having rejected Soryu without asking price quotes during the last submarine contest that France won but went bust afterward.

https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/australias-contribution-to-aukus-should-be-a-next-generation-conventional-submarine/

The quickest solution for Australia would be to forget about the Collins Life of Type Extension due to start in 2026 and fast track the local construction of the South Korean KSS-III Batch 2 design – now owned by Hanwha – which could see boats in the water from 2030.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

LDP lawmakers to set up group to promote Japan's defense exports

And this LDP group will derive the monies for promotion of these defense corp products from where?

And the profits will accrue to who?

You can fill in the rest by yourself.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

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