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Lower house OKs security bills despite opposition boycott

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By Linda Sieg

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So, like I said, now what is everyone going to do? Will the protests continue or will folks just pack up their stuff and give up?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Abe and his cronies' interpretation of the Japanese Constitution is illegal, immoral and unforgiveable. The Japanese Constitution strictly requires a referendum which it appears Abe wishes to circumvent. In any case, I have hope that the supreme court will do its duty and knock down the amendments. Failing that, it is our duty as citizens, parents or supporters of peace to fight Abe on this one. Many of us will, but I expect that the huge majority won't. I remain convinced that Abe will face severe retribution and punishment in future, whether at the polls or by prosecution. Many of us will not rest until that time.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Yubaru: Give up? As you have?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Good news. We can become a sovereign state once again. がんばって????????????日本!

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

I have given up. I have no faith in the people or the courts to overturn this. Both are too docile. The people have been obliviously sleepwalking for as long as I have been here. If it does not affect their lives right here, right now then they will do nothing. The people have pretty much been trained like that. There is only one critique of Japan's "democracy" and it is not from people who would see Japan more free and democratic, it is from the right who would simply like to do away with it completely. They have precious little opposition.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Good news. We can become a sovereign state once again.

How does violating your own constitution help you to become sovereign? It's the fist step on the road back to lawlessness and the collapse of the legitimacy of the state.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

This only puts Japan on par with China

8 ( +10 / -2 )

A country should In fact be able to have a more active role in defending itself and aiding allies. It should in fact have its own constitution. One that it has a hand in. Not one written bunya other country. Sure Japan's situation worked for a while but they should have started things like this years ago (reworking its constitution as it saw fit. Not keeping one written by U.S. ) and yeah with China's recent activities. Especially building artificial islands further out from coast they need a firmer hand. Now I'm not saying I agree with how it's been done. More should have been done to ensure people understand it and know why it's being done. With that said and given the past 6-7 years that vibe really followed Japanese politics this could be one of those things that starts a new domino effect of PMs. Even when I was living there whene a PM had this much controversy and people mad wasn't long before he stepped down.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

It is good for Japan and many other countries.

The views of Asian and the Pacific basin countries to the right of collective self-defence of Japan:

Against

China, South Korea,

For

Mongolia, Indonesia, Singapore, Phillipine, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, Colombia, Brazil, Mexico

https://twitter.com/kohyu1952/status/620637451900489728/photo/1

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Nah... these bills will be a disaster. Japan won't have the stomach for a real battle with China (even with USA helping), and that's a guarantee. Just look at how 80% of the Japanese people too weak to stop Abe, so how can they fight a China who has a special determination when it comes to war with Japan. And the bills themselves are unlawful, and will cause Japanese soldiers to pause and to mentally struggle if they are doing the right thing or against their own people's wishes.

Moreover, Japanese have the heavy ghost of their brutal past, making Japanese soldiers not 100% battle-eager, trust me. And no, no Asian nation is that happy with Japan's re-militarism.. just look at the protests in Manila, Jakarta, etc. Asian nations are happy with Japan's remilitarism based on info from Twitter, pseudo news, etc??

Be realistic... Japan on par with China?? Then why need America? BBC said before Japanese military will crumble in 10 days or less when China is provoked into even a small confrontation, even with USA behind Japan.

Thanks for reading.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

A sad day. However its one thing to enact a bill, but another to actually put it into affect. I can't imagine the day (or the protests) when its decided to ever place J-troops in a foreign military operation on the offensive. Then what will occur when the first soldier gets killed? Or when the first J-soldier kills someone else? Or makes a mistake and kills a civilian? Dark days ahead.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

In an increasingly multipolar world, it's inevitable that Japan would counterbalance China in East Asia

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Crowds of protesters - organisers said 100,000 - gathered near the Diet. Many stayed well into the night, chanting and holding up placards reading “Abe, quit”, “No War, No Killing” and “Scrap the War Bills”. Protesters were assembling again on Thursday, although rainy weather could dampen the numbers.

This should've happened weeks ago. Again it's a case of Japanese reacting after not before. The best they`ll achieve at this point is forcing Abe out of office - like with Kishi. (And likewise, with Kishi pushing through the US security treaty - it won't stop the passing of the bill. Abe will get to "step down" and write his memoirs about being the saviour of Japan

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

I don't know why anyone would worry about invasion by China or NK.

With what Shinzo (Kim) Abe has in store for us, we might be better off.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Good news. We can become a sovereign state once again.

I'm actually not unsympathetic to this argument. But I also know a straw man when I see one.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

First off, I ignore any comments by the Chinese officials on this matter because they're hypocrites at best.

Second off, here's a part of Abe's policy speech when he first became Prime Minister in 2006:

"In light of the changes in the international situation such as the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) and missiles, and the fight against terrorism, as well as the advancements in military technologies, and the rising expectations toward Japan's international contribution, we will thoroughly study individual, specific cases to identify what kind of case falls under the exercise of the right of collective self-defense which is forbidden under the Constitution, so that the Japan-U.S. alliance functions more effectively and peace is maintained."

Rewriting the constitution lies at the heart of Abe's notions for a revived Japan, it's been the LDP's dream since 1955. During Abe’s first term as prime minister, in 2006-07, he prepared the ground by passing a law on how to hold a national referendum when amending the constitution.

If anyone who ever voted for Abe and his party didn't know this then they've either chosen to ignore it, voted ignorantly, or want what he wants so I don't want to hear whine and moan about what could've solved in the voter's booths years ago. For those who can vote in this country, well, you're just as much responsible for this as Abe is because without, none of this would have been possible.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Does he know what he doing? The citizen of Japan wanted peace and respectable country end of war, peace and hope for Japan ....

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I don't know why anyone would worry about invasion by China or NK.

With what Shinzo (Kim) Abe has in store for us, we might be better off.

It'll be the same off. Japan has a security bill; China and NK each has a security bill - you're just trading one security bill for another. (Don't tell us ya didn't think China or NK has their own security bill?)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

And who now trusts comments from Japanese officials, esp Abe and his tyrannical cronies (who tricked the Japanese people, desecrated the constitution and lie about/rewrite history)? Because Japanese people trusted too much on Abe without paying attention to his dangerous rightwing stance, this is where we are today (security bills a "death sentence" to Japan's constitution and future, as experts have voiced). Heck, there's no difference between comments/actions from Japanese and Chinese politicians (Abe gutting his own nation's constitution like a lego toy is seen as the worst by even his own people). Next is what?, should we trust comments from American politicians who have hypocrisy written all over their faces..

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I'm glad some are getting it.

There actually exists many Japanese people (and politicians too, who left the chambers in protest of this bill), who oppose war of any kind.

A far contrast to the stereotypical portrayal of ALL Japanese as being ignorant, right wing bigots who know little about history.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Yubaru: Give up? As you have?

You assume this why? I see nothing wrong with Japan being able to come to the defense of a friend in a time of war.

How would you feel if you got into a fight with someone, and your friend just stood by and let you get beat up? They couldnt help you because they can't. In effect that is what Japan has shackled around them, they could not come to the aid of an ally if they were attacked. It's that simple.

The problem is just how far Abe wants to extend Japan's reach. If he tells the SDF to go to Iraq or Syria to support the US there, I say cut him off at the knees. However if there was a conflict closer to home, let's say around the Korean peninsula and their allies need their assistance, by all means help.

Too many people misunderstand the initial purpose of this bill, I am against Abe having no restraints placed in the legislation to prevent him from acting on his own. There have to be safeguards in place to stop him if necessary.

BTW I voted against the LDP, what did you do? Just talk?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Rationale shows that the issue is not China or Russia or NK, but the unconstitutional and illegal manner and existence of these security bills (as testified by over 11,000 Japanese legal experts and scholars) of which their railroaded passage (only 100 hours of deliberations, ignoring thousands of experts and 80 % of Japanese public for something so profound for Japan) signifies the meaninglessness of supreme law and thus making Japan a hypocrite by lecturing China to rule by law.

This profound erosion of supreme law will turn Japanese society into an unstable one, and just as I predicted about Abe, I won't be surprised this is just the beginning of Japan fracturing into opposing sides. How on earth will Japanese people, who are law abiding people, be able to continue to live and be proud of their nation's supreme law and democracy that are now controlled by Abe? How will they feel now that they realized they actually have their own worse version of a NK dictator, Hitler or Putin?

Ironic, these security bills will not protect Japan from outside "threats" (China??, exaggerated propaganda by Abe that Japanese people know now) but instead will tear Japan apart internally...and China won't have to do anything but smile. I feel sorry though that China's name was used by Abe for his wicked sick agenda.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

wa ha ha ha! These guys are laughing at the population. Now we can get away with anything! What recourse is there to put these jerks back in place? Recall? What about the supreme court? If so many scholars are saying that this is unconstitutional what of the balance of power and the high court? All you folks who voted LDP, thanks a million. Hope you're not complaining now because you got these clowns to where they are now.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe (C) smiles with Finance Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Taro Aso (2nd R) and other lawmakers in the lower house of the Diet on Thursday afternoon.

This caption from the picture says it all -- two men who's families have deep ties to Japan's militaristic past are all smiles. Anyone who is not even the least bit concerned about that is way too naive.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

It is not as question of if Japan gets into a war but when.s

0 ( +2 / -2 )

By the time Japan gets into a war (if not sooner like fighting rebels/Russian army in Ukraine with NATO/USA, which people say many body bags will return), Japanese society would be so fractured and people's resistance would be far greater than the anti-war movement in 60s USA.. plus the security bills could either be more opaque (thus making citizens more confused, outraged and soldiers will lose their will) or revoked. Not to mention all the other social problems (population decrease, economic weakness, widening gap between rich and poor, people resisting totalitarian rule etc).

If they do muster up and tread into war, you would need much more than prayers and "readiness" to stomach what's ahead (i.e. killing people or be killed), which I doubt very much Japan has the stomach for. And as mentioned, the ghost of Japan's brutal past will weigh down heavily on Japanese soldiers, plus their questioning the unlawfulness of the whole existence of these security laws/collective defense.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It seems not many people know how Japanese Parliament works or how to count votes, I copypaste this comment.

The discussion in the Upper House would take about 2 months. If takes longer and the bill does not pass by September 27 term end, the bill dies.

In the Upper House, LDP, Komeito and Jisedai have 139 seats out of 242 seats. If 19 defect due to unpopular nature of the bill, the bill also dies.

LDP coalition may reapprove the bill by 2/3 majority of the Lower House. 317 seats are required for 2/3 majority, and LDP, Komeito and Jisedai have 327 seats. If 11 defect, the bill dies.

The chances are small due to strong party discipline, but there are still chances.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It's a shame those holding "Permanent Residence" in Japan are not allowed to vote... after all, we are PERMANENT RESIDENTS but can do NOTHING to help oust Abe...

2 ( +7 / -5 )

@Richoflex

Your post is such that I suspect you're a Japanese mole, employed by the government to provoke pro-Japanese comments.

I'm saying nothing....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

PM Abe should be given credit for pushing thru' the security defence bills for the sake of (1) Japanese interest in the Sengkaku Islands because the China is antagonistic and aims to take over the islands which it claims to be theirs. (2) Helping those who need help like in the South China Sea disputes. (3) The US encourages Japan's involvement in keeping the region peaceful together with the US Forces and other friendly allies like Australia & the Philippines. The Japanese Pacifists better wake up to realities unless they prefer to "kow-tow" to China and its strong ally North Korea.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

It's a shame those holding "Permanent Residence" in Japan are not allowed to vote... after all, we are PERMANENT RESIDENTS but can do NOTHING to help oust Abe... -

Geez, if you want the right to vote, take the next step and take citizenship or quit your whining. Japan like any other country has it's laws about voting rights, if you want to vote, become naturalized, otherwise quite your whining.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

BTW I voted against the LDP, what did you do? Just talk?

@Yubaru. Kudos. Reading all these comments & yawning (knowing that these posters prob didn't vote). You've been making sense all day on this topic in both forums featured today, JT. Keep goin'

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I would also vote against both LDP & DPJ but I only have PR and am not willing to lose my EU Passport.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Sunrise777JUL. 16, 2015 - 04:16PM JST It is good for Japan and many other countries. The views of Asian and the Pacific basin countries to the right of collective self-defence of Japan: Against China, South Korea, For Mongolia, Indonesia, Singapore, Phillipine, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, Colombia, Brazil, Mexico https://twitter.com/kohyu1952/status/620637451900489728/photo/1

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Thank you for writing info.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

YubaruJUL. 16, 2015 - 08:26PM JST Yubaru: Give up? As you have?

You assume this why? < Because of your previous comments, and your total disapproval of these protesters.> I see nothing wrong with Japan being able to come to the defense of a friend in a time of war.

How would you feel if you got into a fight with someone, and your friend just stood by and let you get beat up? < I make a point of not hanging out with "friends" who like to continuously pic fights!> They couldnt help you because they can't. In effect that is what Japan has shackled around them, they could not come to the aid of an ally if they were attacked. It's that simple. < Sounds like those shackles have kept us at peace for over sixty years.>

The problem is just how far Abe wants to extend Japan's reach. If he tells the SDF to go to Iraq or Syria to support the US there, I say cut him off at the knees. However if there was a conflict closer to home, let's say around the Korean peninsula and their allies need their assistance, by all means help. < And here lies the problem, once the constitution has been reinterpreted & article nine has been rewriten, there will be no safety controls in place to stop Japan from supporting US wars in any part of the world.>

Too many people misunderstand the initial purpose of this bill, I am against Abe having no restraints placed in the legislation to prevent him from acting on his own. There have to be safeguards in place to stop him if necessary.

BTW I voted against the LDP, what did you do? Just talk?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Good bye peaceful and world respected Japan, now you are the part of the evil empires of the dark side.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Everybody needs to give the past a rest. Japan needs to change with the times, and with China doing what China does best, Japan needs to be in a better position to effectively defend its territory. As some of you have expressed the way the bill was passed could of been handle with a little more feness. But this bill is in the best interest of defending Japan from very hostile and unpredictable neighbours.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@advill: doesn't your reasoning sound the same like the hollow hyperbole used by Abe to trick the Japanese citizens and twist the constitution for his own sick military dream? Do you have other more convincing arguments for these security bills?

Regarding your comments, objectively speaking, the Diayou/Senkaku islands are far from what Japan claims as hers. Don't you find it strange these islands were "given" by USA to Japan, yet the giver cannot say the islands' sovereignty now are Japan's (but only under Japan's administrative control only)? It makes no sense. Moreover, Japan's claims refer to a few decades, but as other media pointed out, China's claims go back further. If China's claims are not clear, then Japan's claims are even more dubious. Additionally, last year it was reported that the UK documents showed that indeed China and Japan agreed to "shelf the islands issue indefinitely" in contradiction to Japan's denials (i.e. Japan breached that agreement, as typical of Japan). And last November, China and Japan agreed on four basic principles (when Xi and Abe met), and these include Japan's admission that China is entitled to her claims and views regarding the said islands (in fact, the agreement says Japan agrees and understands/accepts there are other views, notably China's, regarding the claims to the Diayou/Senkaku islands). So how is the Diayou/Senkaku islands a flashpoint when the two sides have reached this agreement in principle?

Regarding you South China sea opinion, Obama himself admitted China's claims to the islands in the South China Sea have some merit/legitimacy. Further, if you think the Hague Tribunal's award (if that happens) to the Philippines regarding her claims to islands claimed also by China is going to "compel" or "pressure" China to give up her sovereignty claims (by way of military intervention by Japan/USA/Australia/Vietnam/Philippines), then consider that as wishful thinking. The Tribunal can't decide sovereignty vs delimitation/demarcation claims and has no real full juridiction, so any judgment is not only invalid but shows the Tribunal has very unclear powers. Further, any award can't be legally enforced as it is not binding, as it is only an "opinion" more or less. Lastly, other countries have ignored Tribunal rulings against them, including the U.S. - even Japan ignored a Tribunal/International judgment against its brutal whaling "scientific" program. Hence, China has the absolute right to reject and ignore any ruling (of which may come five to ten years later), especially one made by a panel with no full or real jurisdiction or contradictory powers. So using this case to support Abe's security bills is a very unconvincing one, and the Japanese legal experts have indicated so.

These two points above alone show that Abe's security bills are more than unwarranted because Japan's Coast Guard allows Chinese Coast Guard ships to patrol Diayou/Senkaku islands (and this seems to be the norm now, especially Japan has conceded that China is entitled to her views/claims) and any problems can be handled bilaterally and sufficiently by the current SDF (i.e. no military force needed per these security bills), and because Japan has no business in the South China sea as she is not a claimant there (or, if we go with your reasoning, then China has the right too to support and defend South Korea's claims to Dokdo/Takeshima islands and Russia's claims to the northern islands).

Using China (and NK) as a false excuse by Abe is a tired/well-worn trick, and Abe is running out of tricks to make 80% of his people in Japan understand how can reinterpreting and twisting the Japan Constitution (instead of the proper steps to amend the Constitution itself directly) like a lego toy not be unlawful and unconstitutional. Already 11,000-plus-and-counting legal experts and scholars, plus thousands and thousands of attorneys, teachers, professors, doctors, journalists, writers, police officers, even SDF members themselves, etc etc have clearly stated the security bills are unlawful and unconstitutional. Plus 80% of the Japanese population disagrees /does not want these dangerous and unneeded security bills. Do you think they can accept your simple arguments for the security bills? They already rejected the same arguments by Abe as hyperbole, self-serving (to pay homage to his conveniently-not-convicted-war-criminal grandpa who himself directly caused much suffering in China and to beautify Japan's past brutal militarism) and, most importantly, illegal.

Thanks for reading and goodnight.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

THIS IS IT. This is the moment in History where Japanese Military recurrence takes shape again and again it will be dagger that slaughter peace and unity in the region if not the World, just you wait..

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@tokyodoumo

Don't be silly.

The USA wants Japanese troops to share the risks in US led strategies. That's is all that is going on.

Expect to see Japanese troops being used by the USA, and dying for its imperial ambitions, in the near future.

What is the situation with the Philippines? If China keeps invading, will Japan be allowed on its own to send the military to support them?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

What is the situation with the Philippines? If China keeps invading, will Japan be allowed on its own to send the military to support them?

Not under the current guideline for Phillippines is not considered a "close Ally" in addition to the fact that it doesn't jeopardize the safety, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness of Japan and her citizens.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@tokyodoumo. It's not the end of the world. Japan has a responsibility to itself. Do japanese really expect the US to be there all the time? After 70 years? Grow up. Vote. Protest. Do whatever you got to do. Quit complaining and pointing ur friggn' finger.

Too many people misunderstand the initial purpose of this bill

The above quote is aimed @you, tokyodoumu & thousands like you. Nobody wants a belligerent japan. Yet, the gov can't go on forever writing checks and "rain checking" their obligations to peace.

You can't just shout: "Peace Peace! no more wars, Abe Out!, Abe Quit." That is so irresponsible on behalf of some japanese- whom 1/2 the time never bother fuss about these security issues. Until now, finally-

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Gosh Japan, what took you so long?

What was Japan going to do? Wait until they get attacked by China or North Korea and THEN decide to enact Security Laws?

I believe for most Japanese, they have been living under the Security Blanket of The United States for so long, that they had become short sighted to the Clear and Present dangers that surround their small ocean boarders.

Don't get me wrong, The U.S. Will help Japan (it's in the Pacifist Constitution) but thanks to Wall Street - to an extent. Plus the Japanese cannot depend on The United Stated forever and frankly with the Soft Tone from Washington towards China and North Korea lately - The Japanese Government had to make a Sound Decision to Secure their Country from external threats and incursions, its Land & Ocean Boarders AND to "Get Ready" just in case.

The Kamakura Shogunate may have repelled the Mongolian Invasion thanks to a Super Typhoon. However, the Japanese cannot count on another Super Typhoon to repel a Chinese or a North Korean Invasion.

And if you all think I am just talking smack, then mark the words from a voice who lived during The Roman Empire:

"He is best secure from dangers who is on his guard even when he seems safe." - Publilus Syrus 32BC

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The invasion already happened, and not by the Chinese, but by the great old USA. Hence , these unlawful security blls are aimed at the wrong culprit. Admit it, those here who support the bills do so out of only frustrated or envious spite against China and with bogus facts/speculation and desperate reasoning, not out of logic or rationale ( just like Abe and his war machine). USA supporting Abe and his bogus security bills... a foolish mistake that's going to bite back. Mark my words.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@nigelboy

Thank you. I see, there are 3 conditions;

• when Japan is attacked, or when a close ally is attacked, and the result threatens Japan's survival and poses a clear danger to people • when there is no other appropriate means available to repel the attack and ensure Japan's survival and protect its people • use of force is restricted to a necessary minimum

Personally, I think it's about time Japan went for full sovereignty, and then shocked the world by acting no differently afterwards.

That would take the wind out of China's troll army.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Too much wishful thinking here. Japan won't take anything out of China's nor anyone else's army. Japan's army has no stomach for real war. Just look at the people of Japan. War strikes total fear in them, hence they can't accept Abe's bogus security bills. Japan's army or Japan as a nation only has proven one thing - its brutal past. And now it has become USA's troll , or cloned, army via these bogus security bills unwanted by Japan's own citizens. Why does USA force a peaceful nation like Japan to go to bogus wars? Before it drafted Japan's supreme law telling it not to wage war and aggression again... now it forces it to be its partner in killing or getting killed. How can Japanese people accept or respect what is being done to their peace-based country?? This is why now Japanese people will hate USA more than ever , more than China.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It's only for defense, says Abe-Tojo.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

That's what Japan/Tojo said 75 years ago, for defense etc... and look what what happened... The fact these security bills are passed in a tyrannical manner makes Japanese people and others suspect that the repeat of the past may actually transpire, again, especially with Abe's worship of the Japanese brutal imperial army and his lack of understanding/remorse for the terrible consequences of its actions.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

There is no going back.Push the bill!!

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Too much wishful thinking here. Japan won't take anything out of China's nor anyone else's army.

Army, no. Most of the scenario involves around sea/air so necessary hardware and trained personnel are necessary as opposed to drafted 'little emperors' type which is highly inefficient strategically and financially.

One luxury Japan and the U.S. forces have it's her location and access to the ocean where they could literally 'starve' the opposition by blocking it. By doing so, the great number of PLA would simply be too busy trying to restore order within their own country. It's no wonder they want to expand to their pipe dream island chain.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

KiyoshiMukai: Already pushed through... unlawfully and unconstitutionally... which proves Japan has broken its own rule of law, not to mention democracy. If you are so gung-ho about these bogus security bills, does that mean you have the stomach to fight with Abe's army and kill or be killed, or just watch Japanese soldiers return in body bags if things go badly (which will likely happen)?

These security bills spell one thing for Japan: the rising sun is no more.

R.I.P. Japan, land of peace and law and democracy.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

This is not a step into "normalization" of the country. 1) Is it really normal for a country to allow themselves to engage in conflicts against people that poses no threat to them? No, that's actually quite abnormal. 2) Is this really about Japan making there own decisions as a country? No, it is yet another order by their US master. If they were so independent, why do they insist on keeping the very unpopular base in Okinawa? Can't Japan defend their own? No, this very unpopular bill is basically the US telling Japan to be cannon-fodder in conflicts the US starts and engages in.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Nigelboy: I really doubt the Chinese are not aware of all scenarios. Fact is, they are more prepared than anyone else and have thought through their preparations well. And this is what scares the Pentagon. That's more I can say for even the U.S. military at this point. Just two years ago, U.S. Navy was surprised at how the Chinese were able to do things against them when it was thought otherwise. Last year the there was a DOD report detailing Chinese capabilities in "resisting and pushing" their line of defense and offense, and other many strategies being perfected by China. And, as mentioned, when fighting the Japanese, everybody predicts China will fight with a different kind of determination and strategy. But if you insist, per these Abe's security bills, that Japan/USA/PHI/AUS can defeat China that easily, then you got no problem - they should stop talking and just do it.

And why are the Abe supporters speculate so much in exaggerating the China "threat", but won't talk about the unconstitutionality of these bogus security bills ( especially since the west is so big on "rule of law" and "democracy" that it preaches to the world)? As I said, is it because of blind hatred for China and blind worship of Abe and what he stands for..if so, then good luck with that.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Nigelboy: I really doubt the Chinese are not aware of all scenarios

Doesn't matter. They can't do anything about it except act on those who are "weak". (South China Sea)

Face it. Senkaku is essentially a bare island with very little protection that can be taken just by landing there and yet all China can muster is play cat/mouse game with their 'survey' ships and their newly expanded ADIZ which Japanese forces flies around (teases) with very little scramble from the Chinese counterparts.

Vulnerability of China has been it's access to resources which was evident in WWII where the Allieds (no longer their 'allies' now) had to transport aid via Burma route.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%8F%B4%E8%92%8B%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%88

One may probably assess it's not a big deal but if you look at surrounding area and flip the map, this is what China is faced with.

http://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/70361

Hence, it doesn't really matter if China managed to have a few submarines break the island chain.

Personally, I don't think China is that stupid to make a move but in times where Emperor Xi might lose control, you never know some Gung Ho general of PLA might act stupidly so it's an added insurance without the BS red tape.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Nigelboy: I don't doubt there are theoretical ideas as to how Emperor Abe wants to "bash" China with the help of the boss (USA), but didn't the USA have the same bold ideas with Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan and Somalia that turned out to be nightmares (plus leaving those places into total ruins). Let me repeat: I seriously doubt China has nothing in place against all types of scenarios. Plus, the Japanese have no stomach to fight a real war, especially with the people back home saying it's all illegal , plus the weight of Japan's past... and even Americans seem to be not so fired-up at the prospect with another war, and one with China that will have repercussions elsewhere. These and others are important factors. The thing about Americans or American military is that they tend to talk and oversimplify everything too much, but then reality strikes. You seem to have it all figured out, so godspeed. If you are so confident, would you be willing to go out there with the marines to kill the Chinese (with the Japanese boys to cover your back, as I doubt they have the stomach to be point-man)?, or you mean you will rather stay on the aircraft carrier's war room and watch missiles and jet fighters take down and kill the Chinese?

Besides, I was focused on the main issue of the unconstitutionality of Abe's bogus security bills (per the article), which pro-Abe posters seem to avoid. The fact these bills are unlawful and not constitutional renders your ideas quite pointless. And regarding the Diayou/Senkaku islands, see above - Japan already agreed last November that China is entitled to her views/claims also. Anyway, good luck.

To ThePbot: you and those with similar comments make the most sense and have some rationality, instead of basing comments on blind hatred and frustration-riddled pleas to unconvincingly defend these security bills.

Again: R.I.P Japan, the land of peace and law and democracy now killed by Abe's security bills aimed at the exaggerated "threat" of China.

What's next?... a war bill against the "threat" of Klingons or aliens from the Vega system?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I would also vote against both LDP & DPJ but I only have PR and am not willing to lose my EU Passport.

There are ways to keep it.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Nigelboy: I don't doubt there are theoretical ideas as to how Emperor Abe wants to "bash" China with the help of the boss (USA), but didn't the USA have the same bold ideas with Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan and Somalia that turned out to be nightmares (plus leaving those places into total ruins

Don't know what you are ranting and raving about but the security bill basically focuses on potential scenarios where it results in significant danger of Japan and her citizens if collective defense isn't executed.

China's undiciplined and mentally ill-equipped forces have been legendary especially as a result of a one child policy where their only sons are coined 'little emperors" where moms actually visits the training sites to make sure their precious little ones don't get a single scratch. On the flip side, JSDF are essentially people who signed this as a career.

Besides, I was focused on the main issue of the unconstitutionality of Abe's bogus security bills (per the article), which pro-Abe posters seem to avoid. The fact these bills are unlawful and not constitutional renders your ideas quite pointless. And regarding the Diayou/Senkaku islands, see above - Japan already agreed last November that China is entitled to her views/claims also. Anyway, good luck.

Discussed here. You are welcomed to join. http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/ruling-bloc-pushes-security-bills-through-lower-house-panel#comment_2017793

Of course China is entitled to her views irregardless how groundless it sounds.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

YubaruJUL. 16, 2015 - 08:26PM JST Yubaru: Give up? As you have?

I responded to each of your comments but a moderator decided to delete half of them. I'll try once again.

You assume this why? < Because of your previous comments, and your total disapproval of these protesters.> I see nothing wrong with Japan being able to come to the defense of a friend in a time of war.

How would you feel if you got into a fight with someone, and your friend just stood by and let you get beat up? < I make a point of not hanging out with "friends" who like to continuously pic fights!> They couldnt help you because they can't. In effect that is what Japan has shackled around them, they could not come to the aid of an ally if they were attacked. It's that simple. < Sounds like those shackles have kept us at peace for over sixty years.>

The problem is just how far Abe wants to extend Japan's reach. If he tells the SDF to go to Iraq or Syria to support the US there, I say cut him off at the knees. However if there was a conflict closer to home, let's say around the Korean peninsula and their allies need their assistance, by all means help. < And here lies the problem, once the constitution has been reinterpreted & article nine has been rewriten, there will be no safety controls in place to stop Japan from supporting US wars in any part of the world.>

Too many people misunderstand the initial purpose of this bill, I am against Abe having no restraints placed in the legislation to prevent him from acting on his own. There have to be safeguards in place to stop him if necessary.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

There actually exists many Japanese people (and politicians too, who left the chambers in protest of this bill), who oppose war of any kind.

Too little too late. The time to stop Abe was last election day, weak opposition or not. It's like trying to close the door after the horse has bolted

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Abe may have Isseki Nichou plan. 1. Ask or demand USA to move Okinawan US base to satisfy Okinawan Governor and Okinawan anti-base People. 2. Increase JSDF personals and assign to former US Bases for self defence purpose. Better on own than depending on Foreign forces, That could be reason Abe etc can not explain.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I wonder why so many Americans are so scared of China.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I wonder why so many Americans are so scared of China.

Because they want to send Japan's SDF to ME to fight.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I wonder why so many Americans are so scared of China.

Because they want to send Japan's SDF to ME to fight.

Americans are afraid of China because America wants to send the SDF to the Middle East? Why would that make Americans afraid of China? That makes absolutely no sense.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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