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New Zealand, Australia lead Japan whaling protest

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“The solution is that we have to agree to disagree,” Joji Morishita, Tokyo’s ambassador to the International Whaling Commission, told reporters.

No! The solution is, Japan MUST STOP hunting whales in the southern oceans!

11 ( +18 / -7 )

The only protest Japan will listen to is money. If countries group together and show a strong willingness to work together in a coalition against Japan in the UN, and push for even symbolic sanctions against Japan, for going against the IWC, it would send shock waves through the country.

Otherwise Japan will turn a deaf ear to the protests and put out their own propaganda to the contrary.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Prime Minister John Key said New Zealand’s ambassador to Tokyo delivered a “strong” formal message from 33 >countries

If these 33 countries start catching large numbers of blue fin tunas for 'research purposes', maybe that would get Japan's attention.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Australia could threaten to kick Japan from the submarine bid. maybe it would work

1 ( +1 / -0 )

DisillusionedDec. 08, 2015 - 07:10AM JST

“The solution is that we have to agree to disagree,” Joji Morishita, Tokyo’s ambassador to the International Whaling Commission, told reporters.

No! The solution is, Japan MUST STOP hunting whales in the southern oceans!

This is a perfect example of the pigheaded stubborn position that destroyed the IWC's attempt to resolve the issues in 2012. Cultural Imperialism mixed with misguided Nationalism. The Southern Oceans are NOT Australian or New Zealand territory no matter how much they want to believe this fallacy.

-15 ( +11 / -26 )

"The solution is that we have to agree to disagree"

But Japan does not accept such solutions. If Putin said that about the "northern territories" the Japanese would be outraged.

I'd say that Japan should be taken back to the ICJ but the Japanese, having lost last time, have petulantly refused to accept any further ICJ jurisdiction over their illegal whaling operations. This is because the Japanese know very well that there is nothing scientific about their whaling whatsoever.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

@OjissanAmerica

The Southern Oceans are NOT Australian or New Zealand territory no matter how much they want to believe this fallacy.

No! The Southern Oceans are the territory of the world and not open for exploitation by Japanese greed, pseudo-science and non-existent 'culture'! The only stubborn, insensitive and arrogant pigheadedness the world can see comes from the land of the rising sun!

Get into the 21st century Japan - we don't exploit nature's fauna for our own selfish needs anymore!

3 ( +13 / -10 )

Aaah @Ossan, I'd forgotten how easily that cultural imperialism card comes out. So nice to be the victim, right? The southern oceans may not be theirs, but they certainly aren't Japan's to rape and pillage every year. When you decide to join civilisation let's talk again.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

@OssanAmerica

The Southern Oceans are NOT Australian or New Zealand territory no matter how much they want to believe this fallacy.

They aren't claiming the entire Southern Ocean, just the area which would be their own EEZ off Antarctica where Japan likes to hunt (aka the Whale Sanctuary).

The only reason that some countries refuse to recognize Australia's EEZ is because both they and Australia are part of the Antarctic Treaty System (ATS) which prevents them from making new territorial claims or recognizing other member's new territorial claims (there's a dispute as to whether Australia's claim is new or not). However, I don't think anyone disputes that if Australia withdrew from the Antarctic treaties tommorrow, Japan and other countries would have no choice but to recognize the EEZ of a non-Antarctic Treaty member country.

I think Australia should simply withdraw from the ATS, claim their EEZ and then re-apply a week later. Japan is just exploiting another loophole in a way that it was never intended to be used. The entire point of signing the ATS was to stop human activity and development in Antarctica, not to facilitate factory supertrawlers, oiltankers and harpoon ships entering antarctic waters to engage in commercial fishing and whaling.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

I'm all for battle on the high seas. Makes for good TV. Ramp it up Sea Shepherd..!!

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Whaling issue is confusing as always.

“We consider that there is no scientific basis for the slaughter of whales and strongly urge the government of Japan not to allow it to go ahead,” Key said

With hundreds and thousands of Antarctic minke whales, there is obviously no scientific basis for the moratorium on the slaughter of whales for commercial purposes either, so I think things are all square.

It would be great if Australia and New Zealand were able to take some action to force japan from the IWC altogether. The IWC isn't setting commercial catch limits like it is supposed to, which is the cause of all these issues.

“crime against nature”

Oh yeah, but farming animals, slaughtering and eating them Aussie and Kiwi style is all hunky-dory.

Tokyo claims it is trying to prove the whale population is large enough to sustain a return to commercial hunting, and says it must kill the mammals to carry out its research properly.

It's already proved! Japan should just quit the IWC and permit commercial whalers to hunt them already, and save some tax payer money. Those who eat whale will fund it through their purchases, that's the way it should be in a normal economy (prevented only by this pointless "moratorium").

“this outdated practice”.

It's the "moratorium" that is outdated. How long exactly is a moratorium supposed to last - something other than forever, by definition. Eating whales on the other hand is just a matter of cultural preference.

“The science is clear: all information necessary for management and conservation of whales can be obtained through non-lethal methods,”

Japan wants to manage and conserve whales as a source of food. So what is the point of "non-lethal methods"?

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

" No! The solution is, Japan MUST STOP hunting whales in the southern oceans! This is a perfect example of the pigheaded stubborn position that destroyed the IWC's attempt to resolve the issues in 2012. Cultural Imperialism mixed with misguided Nationalism. The Southern Oceans are NOT Australian or New Zealand territory no matter how much they want to believe this fallacy."

No- actually perfect example of pigheaded stubborness is Japan continuing to give the finger to pretty much all the other "developed / advanced countries " that Japan so loves to be grouped with on other occasions. ( you know the Americans, Europeans, Aussies etc...)

“The solution is that we have to agree to disagree,” Joji Morishita, Tokyo’s ambassador to the International Whaling Commission, told reporters. - Thats supposed to be a solution Joji san ?

“The science is clear: all information necessary for management and conservation of whales can be obtained through non-lethal methods,” Bishop said. - Boom , spot on!

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Unfortunately for the whales, I think these are empty words and protests that will not be backed up by any concrete actions and/or result in any consequences for Japan.

No one feels as sorry for all the millions of cows and chickens for some reason, but I agree that these words and protests are empty. This storm-in-a-tea cup issue has been going on for more than a generation. If something were going to change, it would have by now already.

It's all such a waste of our attention. The free world should be focused on destroying ISIS now, not on telling each other what not to eat... It's pretty sad and pathetic really.

One would be for Australia to reject the Japanese submarine bid if Japan does, in fact, engage in whaling.

Could do, but it would be so peculiar if they did decide to compromise on whatever is in their best security interests (given the climate), just because Japanese culture is not averse to the eating of whales.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

A link with additional perspective on Australia's stance and potential actions in relation to Japan's planned resumption of whaling:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/japan-whale-hunt-tensions-to-flare-as-australia-considers-court-action-20151207-glhag4.html?skin=text-only

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Ah off we go again.

Japan certainly isn't making itself any friends on this one, and I wonder if the tax payers got to see the cost vs benefit they would be on board either.

No doubt some very self interested individuals do very well out of all this non-sense.

All right here are my points.

If you want to go whaling, then apply to go whaling, don't pretend to be doing something else, its just dishonest. Its not scientific and isn't required.

While International waters don't belong to anyone as such, clearly neighbouring nations have interest in whats happening there, Japan certainly isn't that keen for China or Korea to do as they please anywhere near Japan.

Tradition alone is a terrible reason for doing something, there are uncountable outdated "traditional" practices that have now stopped. However if we want to talk tradition, I can't see how taking modern whaling ships thousands and thousands of miles away has anything to do with any minor "traditional" whaling that may have happened.

I know many won't agree but I really feel politically this is an area where Japan by making a fairly small concession in the grand scheme of things could considerably lift its position in the opinion of the international community.

Japan is going to face more large resource hungry neighbours, which will begin to encroach more and more in to what have typically been areas Japan has sustained itself with, the very countries Japan is pushing against in the pacific ocean are the very ones they will wish to stand with them when this time comes.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The whales caught are not endangered.

Stop the senseless slaughter of cows in Australia.

90 million kangaroos have been slaughtered in the last ten years in Australia -- the largest commercial slaughter of landbased wildlife on planet earth.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

With hundreds and thousands of Antarctic minke whales, there is obviously no scientific basis for the moratorium on the slaughter of whales for commercial purposes either, so I think things are all square.

Even if there are thousands, that still puts them in the range of needing protection from extinction. What do you suggest? Wait until there are only a few left before stopping?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

This is a total white man thing, we ,white man don't like this or that, so you yellow man do this or that,is barbaric.

Total nonsense. Much of a chip on your shoulder?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I got deleted for saying that the minke whales caught are not endangered. I smell some Aussies or Kiwis are doing the moderating...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

“We are working with other like-minded nations to build international consensus against Japanese whaling,” Bishop said in a statement. “We are also exploring options for further legal action.”

You won't find any. The whaling vessels need to be confronted, and impounded

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

OassanAmerica - This is a perfect example of the pigheaded stubborn position that destroyed the IWC's attempt to resolve the issues in 2012. Cultural Imperialism mixed with misguided Nationalism. The Southern Oceans are NOT Australia

What an absolute load of utter garbage Ossan! If this is what you seriously believe I feel only sorrow for you. I guess the fact that 32 other countries besides Australia, including the US, have joined the protest is irrelevant to you. Japan can quite easily sustain the minuscule market for whale meat (less than 2% of the population) with coastal whaling. There is no reason for them to travel to the southern oceans to hunt whales. The only reason they want to do it is to plunder a resource that was created by the other 70 odd countries that banned commercial whaling. If Japan intends to resume commercial whaling by plundering (pirating) this resource they should pay every other nation who stopped hunting whales.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

@Yubaru, there are estimated to be hundreds of thousands, not mere thousands of minke whales.

See https://iwc.int/estimate. The IWC's latest estimate had Southern Hemisphere minke whales numbering somewhere between 360,000 and 730,000 with 95% confidence.

If in an unlikely case (less than 5% probability) of there being just say 300,000 of these whales, an annual catch of even 3000 would still be a mere 1% annual harvest. 1% seems conservative even without considering this low (with 95% probability) estimate of whales. Even 0.5% would be 1500 whales.

So there is a (non-zero) limit for the number of these whales that could be caught without posing any serious risk of extinction.

When you think about what Japan wants to do, if there were only a few left or even a few thousand left, that wouldn't be good for anyone, least of all them. They can't eat what isn't abundant and productive in numbers. Renewable natural resources are like an investment - a big principal is needed in order to reap a juicy yield.

If know it's unpopular with some to think that this concept could apply to whales too, but I'm not culturally hung up about them myself. I don't want them to go extinct of course, but I sure don't see that happening.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

These countries should all agree to ban the sale of Japanese motor vehicles during any whaling seasons. That would end whaling pretty dam quick. But of course they don't really care, they only pretend they care to appease their home audiences.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

ban the sale of Japanese motor vehicles during any whaling seasons

Good ides. Japan should do the same with lots of import like beef, fruit, cheese from Aussie and NZ

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

The only reason that some countries refuse to recognize Australia's EEZ is because both they and Australia are part of the Antarctic Treaty System (ATS) which prevents them from making new territorial claims or recognizing other member's new territorial claims (there's a dispute as to whether Australia's claim is new or not). However, I don't think anyone disputes that if Australia withdrew from the Antarctic treaties tommorrow, Japan and other countries would have no choice but to recognize the EEZ of a non-Antarctic Treaty member country.

no, this is just patently incorrect. you are misreading the treaty and its ramifications. but suffice it to say, the world does not recognize any territorial claim in antartica.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

tina, exactly, which shows those 33 governments don't really care much about the whales, just some of their voters do and they want to pander to them. If they wanted to extend sanctions over this, they would bring Tokyo to its knees in seconds, but the governments care far more about business as usual than they do about the lives of whales. QED by the lack of any real action and the lodging of meaningless statements and protests. Japan can carry on whaling and ignore any protests.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

OssanAmerica: "This is a perfect example of the pigheaded stubborn position that destroyed the IWC's attempt to resolve the issues in 2012. Cultural Imperialism mixed with misguided Nationalism."

Good on you for pointing out EXACTLY what Japan embraces on this issue, because there is NO way you can, with a straight face, suggest that the entire world (save two or three nations and a few land-locked countries in Africa Japan has paid off) is 'imposing its beliefs' on ONE nation that INSISTS it can do what it wants when it comes to whaling -- errr... carrying out science... errr... cultural tradition from hundreds of years ago in diesel ships... ummm... which is it again? -- and that it's not actually Japan that is imposing its pigheadedness and cultural imperialism on the rest of the world.

Japan has no desire to 'compromise', and that has been proven by Abe's personal promise to resume commercial whaling despite the international ban, and despite the fact that NO ONE wants it, even in Japan. Japan's idea of 'compromise' on this issue is "do what we want".

tinawatanabe: "Good ides. Japan should do the same with lots of import like beef, fruit, cheese from Aussie and NZ"

hahaha! Then, with the ban on American beef imports to boot, where would you get your beef for gyudon, yakiniku, sukiyaki, suteki-ya san, and everything else that Japan uses beef for? Because I can tell you I don't know a single Japanese person who does not eat beef, even if occasionally, but I know almost zero who eat whale. Japan would be on its knees, doing the dogeza, within a week of such a ban -- unless you wanted to import all your beef from China and South Korea, which given how much you hate those nations I doubt you do. There's certainly no way Japan can meet the needs domestically -- the state of butter has proven that, and butter isn't used as much as meat and poultry by comparison.

So, please, out of spite instead of logic, do so and see what happens at all of your enkai.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

"We’d like to have a healthy whale population." I don't think being dead is healthy, believe me, I know. Just don't allow Japanese to buy TimTams - they are endangered, say - or to take photos with koalas. That will bring them to their knees. I hope they talk this up on Japanese TV because most of the population have no clue about it. Send off the ships, get Sea Shepherd and hopefully Aussie Govt customs ships involved. The worst thing that could happen for whaling in Japan is that it gets public exposure here. Then it takes it out of the oyaji hands and into the public arena.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

“The science is clear: all information necessary for management and conservation of whales can be obtained through non-lethal methods,” Bishop said.

Then why has the IWC been unable to fufill their requirement under the moratorium to review the status of Minke whales despite have 25 years to do so?

The Southern Oceans are the territory of the world and not open for exploitation by Japanese greed,

Actually the UN basically says that any country can exploit international waters.

They aren't claiming the entire Southern Ocean, just the area which would be their own EEZ off Antarctica where Japan likes to hunt (aka the Whale Sanctuary).

OK then, they do not have EEZ's off Antarctica as such claims are violations of the ATS.

The only reason that some countries refuse to recognize Australia's EEZ

And "some" would be about 200 countries do not recognize Australia's EEZ.

I don't think anyone disputes that if Australia withdrew from the Antarctic treaties tommorrow, Japan and other countries would have no choice but to recognize the EEZ of a non-Antarctic Treaty member country.

Well first this doesn't matter unless Australia were to withdraw. And second I dispute that Australia's claim would be recognized if they withdrew and I feel sure that many countries which currently fish in the area that Australia claims would also dispute that claim if they withdrew from the ATS and tried to enforce the claim.

was to stop human activity and development in Antarctica

Key phrase being 'in Antarctica'. The ATS specifically says it DOES NOT apply to the high seas around Antarctica.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

just as a thought, IF japan is doing this under the banner of research, where is the research results and what was gained from it, and is it the same old info that turns up time after time or is it new exiting news? if its the same old stuff does it require killing more whales? and to help stop this "research" why don't the IWC state that the dead or live whales have to returned to the sea dead or alive? this way the whalers would NOT be able to gain in any way!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Dom, can I ask in all seriousness do you work for some part of a Japanese fisheries department?

All your responses seem to be about whaling/fishing.

I think its only right to say if you are an official speaking for a government department or lobby group.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Brian Wheway: "just as a thought, IF japan is doing this under the banner of research, where is the research results and what was gained from it"

What?? You've never seen the "soy-sauce vs. mayonnaise" scientific debate? There's also the "We killed one, so that means there is one less" scientific research -- the necessary, "lethal counting" technique. And lest we forget, killing and consuming whale is necessary in order to scientifically measure how much mercury pregnant women can ingest, and students forced to eat frozen whale stockpile meat in school lunches. How else would they be able to measure how much mercury a human can safely ingest? and how much more beyond the safety limits, and the side-effects?

Don't ask any of these to be published in English for the international community, though -- that's infringing on Japanese culture!

0 ( +6 / -6 )

tinawatanabeDEC. 08, 2015 - 02:18PM JST ban the sale of Japanese motor vehicles during any whaling seasons Good ides. Japan should do the same with lots of import like beef, fruit, cheese from Aussie and NZ

Good idea. Japan will run our of beef supplies causing chaos at Yoshinoya and yakiniku restaurants. Plenty of other car manufacturers around the world - hey, what about these new Chinese makers getting better every year. Hmmm...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

hahaha! Then, with the ban on American beef imports to boot, where would you get your beef for gyudon, yakiniku, sukiyaki, suteki-ya san, and everything else that Japan uses beef for? Because I can tell you I don't know a single Japanese person who does not eat beef, even if occasionally, but I know almost zero who eat whale. Japan would be on its knees, doing the dogeza, within a week of such a ban -- unless you wanted to import all your beef from China and South Korea, which given how much you hate those nations I doubt you do. There's certainly no way Japan can meet the needs domestically -- the state of butter has proven that, and butter isn't used as much as meat and poultry by comparison.

So, please, out of spite instead of logic, do so and see what happens at all of your enkai.

Agreed

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Dom Palmer

200 countries do not recognize Australia's EEZ.

This is a claim that gets repeated alot but it's very misleading and inaccurate. You make it sound as though 200 countries have come forward and publicly announced that they will not recognise any Antarctic territorial claims. In reality, most have simply abstained from taking any position in order to allow the ATS to resolve these issues. But there's no reasonable basis for believing that all, or even a majority, of these countries would oppose these territorial claims if the ATS were to fall apart. On what principle of international law could they rely on to oppose the claims? Were they in Antarctica first? Does Australia not have effective control? Any refusal to recognise the claims would just be an invitation to Australia and NZ to finally start boarding Japanese ships and arresting their crews.

France is also one of the countries making Antarctic claims. Are you seriously suggesting that dozens of Francophone countries like Rwanda and Burkina Faso (who receive substantial aid and cooperation from France) would not recognise France's claim if asked to do so? Or that the EU would not pressure all of its members to recognise the claims of France, the UK and Norway? Your list would start shrinking fairly quickly.

@nakanoguy01

no, this is just patently incorrect. you are misreading the treaty and its ramifications. but suffice it to say, the world does not recognize any territorial claim in antartica.

Thanks, I'll have to take your word for it.

@Rik314

Just don't allow Japanese to buy TimTams

This could work, but you'd have to get the British to stop selling them their McVities Penguin (It's the same biscuit/recipe).

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

just as a thought, IF japan is doing this under the banner of research, where is the research results and what was gained from it, and is it the same old info that turns up time after time or is it new exiting news? if its the same old stuff does it require killing more whales? and to help stop this "research" why don't the IWC state that the dead or live whales have to returned to the sea dead or alive? this way the whalers would NOT be able to gain in any way!

The ICR publishs an extensive list of the research papers from the whaling.

The IWC regulations already state that the meat from the whales must be processed.

Dom, can I ask in all seriousness do you work for some part of a Japanese fisheries department?

Nope. Now can I ask a serious question, why would it matter? Are my comments factually correct? Do factually correct items change based on the source?

Or that the EU would not pressure all of its members to recognise the claims of France, the UK and Norway?

Well again until one of these countries withdraws from the ATS the point is moot. But of all the countries with current claims in Antarctica, Australia is the only one making a claim for an EEZ in the waters around Antarctica. If any of the other countries withdrew and made their claim I believe most countries would simply abstain from taking any position. And some of those claims overlap, which would be another reason for other countries to abstain from any position rather than back one claimant over another. Oh and Norway isn't a part of the EU.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

If they wanted to extend sanctions over this, they would bring Tokyo to its knees in seconds

How? Japan is Aussie's second largest exporting destination after China.

but the governments care far more about business as usual than they do about the lives of whales.

maybe Aussie govt care lives of its people than whales.

where would you get your beef for gyudon, yakiniku, sukiyaki, suteki-ya san, and everything else that Japan uses beef for?

Cut the food supply Japan would never buy from you.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

@"Smith"

What?? You've never seen the "soy-sauce vs. mayonnaise" scientific debate?

You've said this multiple times on previous posts regarding this topic. Can you please provide a link to a source regarding this? I'm interested in reading up on it.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

tinawatanabe: "Cut the food supply Japan would never buy from you."

That doesn't even make sense. In any case, you never answered my question; who would you then buy beef from, because you could not produce enough domestically, and the demand here is far too high for people to allow the government to ban it and the other products you mention out of spite and for whale meat that no one here eats. The Japanese government would have to BEG to get it. Would you be satisfied begging and apologizing? Amazing that in this day and age there are still people that would rather see Japan on its knees than admit there is no value in simply opposing the rest of the world for something not even Japan wants or needs. There were quite a few of those people with such attitude in the early 1940s.

Yumster100: "Can you please provide a link to a source regarding this? I'm interested in reading up on it."

Sure! http://ww7.tiki.ne.jp/~yosizen/

The 'scientific research' section is disguised in the 'comments' link about the food products, but rest assured your statements on which condiment is better will be registered in the scientific community and more will be bought to increase the number of orders from near zero to plus one. That's science!

No doubt you can find links to izakaya that serve whale meat in a few remote areas, where they undoubtedly, over sake, carry on the soy sauce vs. mayo 'science' as well. But sorry, no official papers published because when you ask for them it becomes an attack on the culture.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

The 'scientific research' section is disguised in the 'comments' link about the food products, but rest assured your statements on which condiment is better will be registered in the scientific community and more will be bought to increase the number of orders from near zero to plus one. That's science!

No doubt you can find links to izakaya that serve whale meat in a few remote areas, where they undoubtedly, over sake, carry on the soy sauce vs. mayo 'science' as well. But sorry, no official papers published because when you ask for them it becomes an attack on the culture.

I was hoping for an academic paper regarding to the soy sauce vs. Mayo topic you often bring up but there was none as I suspected. No need to imply that there was a scientific study of such taste comparisons since I'm pretty sure that link wasn't even "meant" to disguise it as such (one look at the website and anyone will know that it's not a primary source for anything about science). Why resort to hyperbole?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The ONLY way to stop Japan from breaking the law and resuming commercial fishing is with force. New Zealand and Australia will not do this action as it takes real action. They would protest up to and including the harvesting last whale. I am sorry, but both nations are all about talk and not action. Sea Sheppard is once again the whales only hope.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

including the harvesting last whale

Antarctic Minke whale populations have been stable for at least decades.

And most other whale species show increasing or stable populations.

Sorry that the gloom and doom scenario isn't reality because it obviously makes great propaganda.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

YuriOtani: we are in agreement for a change.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Dom: then why the need for the "science".

0 ( +6 / -6 )

DisillusionedDec. 08, 2015 - 12:58PM JST "OassanAmerica - This is a perfect example of the pigheaded stubborn position that destroyed the IWC's attempt to resolve the issues in 2012. Cultural Imperialism mixed with misguided Nationalism. The Southern Oceans are NOT Australia" What an absolute load of utter garbage Ossan! If this is what you seriously believe I feel only sorrow for you.

How many times have we read Aussie & NZ posters write that the Japanese "should kill whales in their OWN waters not in our backyard'? Proof that for many people the real issue is not about whales but about a perceived intrusion into THEIR territory. And the eco-terrorists SSCS have played on this nationalism perfectly.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

That doesn't even make sense.

Stopping food supply because of whaling would anger Japan, why doesn't make sense?

who would you then buy beef from

Japan can boost beef production. I see lots of Japanese beef unsold on supermarket shelves. I have a feeling the reason Japan imports beef is some political decision like rice from US, not really wanted

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

There is nothing about culture here. It is only to deceive the Japanese people. This is another example of how corruption exists in Japan. The whaling activity is hugely subsidized and people's taxes are paid to fisheries to do some obsolete activity with a very small market. If Japan withdraws from the International Whaling association, the government cannot subsidize this whaling under the name of research. Then no fisheries will be able to make money but will go bankrupt. Japan has its own way of corruption through corrupt politicians and associations and groups, and this is just one example.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Sea Sheppard is once again the whales only hope.

@Yuri: We are in agreement. If only opposing governments had the "will to act".

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

OssanAmerica: "How many times have we read Aussie & NZ posters write that the Japanese "should kill whales in their OWN waters not in our backyard'?"

As opposed to Japan saying it's about 'science'?? Then when you point out the lack of science and how killing the whales is not necessary they claim it's about culture and you're attacking it? Then when you point out Japanese culture does not involve going to the Southern Ocean and imposing its own values on the rest of the world they just shut up altogether except to say they'll stop funding this or that?

"And the eco-terrorists SSCS have played on this nationalism perfectly."

Again, substitute SSCS (and I like how you felt you had to spell it out) with "Japan" and you are bang on!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Dom: then why the need for the "science".

Because despite the truth, the IWC refuses to do their job and review the status of Minke whales. They claim that they don't have enough information. Japan has clearly stated that they want to resume commercial whaling. The way to do that is for the IWC to lift the moratorium. The IWC requires data to perform their review. So to resume commercial whaling requires supplying the IWC with data which requires "science".

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Dom, can I ask in all seriousness do you work for some part of a Japanese fisheries department? All your responses seem to be about whaling/fishing. I think its only right to say if you are an official speaking for a government department or lobby group.

Actually, that would be almost exclusively on the twin issues of whaling and nuclear energy , staunchly supporting the J-govt .side on both. It doesn't take a genius to figure , your guess is close to the mark, even though it might not be the fisheries department per se. There was a poster not long ago that most on here will remember that commented precisely on the same without fail , who mysteriously just stopped. Re- assignment or change of handle , take your pick ;). We all need to put food on the table I guess.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Dom: "Japan has clearly stated that they want to resume commercial whaling."

So, again, why do they say it's for science?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

So, again, why do they say it's for science?

Because they're participants in the IWF, and while the IWF allows for scientific whaling, it does not allow for commercial whaling.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So, again, why do they say it's for science?

So, again, because they have to prove to the IWC that the science backs a viable commercial hunt.

It doesn't take a genius

Good thing you are talking about yourself then. So how is living in a delusional conspiracy filled world going for you?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

So how is living in delusional conspiracy filled world going for you? " Doing just fine, thanks for asking. Too close for comfort is it? Oh yeah, in 2015 there are no posters connected to vested interests ( govt. or otherwise ) doing PR work on the net/ social media. None whatsoever.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Japan should do the same with lots of import like beef, fruit, cheese from Aussie and NZ may as well add iron ore, natural gas, coal. Id say Australias economy will operate just fine without Japanese cars.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Oh yeah, in 2015 there are no posters connected to vested interests ( govt. or otherwise ) doing PR work on the net/ social media. None whatsoever.

Never said that, but nice strawman. Typical reaction when someone sees their argument is totally sunk.

Accusing everyone who has a different view than you of being 'posters connected to vested interests ( govt. or otherwise )' is delusional. But even if it were true in every single case if the information being posted is factual what difference does it make? If Donald Trump says the moon is ~384,400 km does it make it any less true than if Neil deGrasse Tyson says it? Oh and those 'posters connected to vested interests ( govt. or otherwise )' can and DO include people from BOTH sides of every issue.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The solution is, Japan MUST STOP hunting whales in the southern oceans!

There's not a single fishing nation that fishes exclusively in its own waters, except for some landlocked countries. That includes Australia and New Zealand.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I really dislike cultural and religious customs. But I can not ask for change when the majority are oppose to stopping these hideous acts. It will be hard to change mind set of whaling demands of Japan when they have whale on their school menus. I don,t see whaling in the southern waters and their methods cultural nor science. Japan still have the old tradition, the old boats and the old tackle but not the whales in their fishing waters. With all the money Japan has spent on program to show the world "you can not tell us what to do, chest beating performance. They could of by now establish a national herd for releasing part of, for the traditional annual cull.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It's terrible!! Why doesn't somebody DO something about It!!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

They could of by now establish a national herd for releasing part of, for the traditional annual cull.

Are you suggesting that it would be possible to 'herd' whales and raise them like cattle? Really?

the old boats and the old tackle but not the whales in their fishing waters

Actually the boats are relatively new as fishing vessels go and they use the most up-to-date methods and tackle. Also they do hunt whales in their own waters and in international waters of the North Pacific.

It's terrible!! Why doesn't somebody DO something about It!!

Yes, the SSCS and the whining of the anti-whalers is terrible. The SSCS has been taken to court and are slowly going bankrupt with mounting legal fees and donations at less than half of what they use to be, hopefully soon they will be gone. So someone is DOING something about that. But as to the whining, most people in the world have freedom of speech, so there really isn't much that can be done about the whining.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Dom Palmer: They have done the same ( learnt how the farm ) with bluefin tuna. As for boats and methods used. I am saying they still have the knowledge and skills to build the old style of boat and tackle and to whale only in Japan,s waters because the old style boats are design for rowing during the cull, not for a overnight voyage. I am advocating a cultural right and a compromise. I myself do not agree with whale full stop. If Japan is serious about holding on to their cultural indignity this would have to be option. It leave the international Whale herd alone and Japan keep its so call cultural indignity. The Subject ( Whaling) could be a extinct Jellyfish But this is really not about their cultural identity, it about YOU CAN NOT TELL US NOT TO.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

John-San; And what I am saying is that a newborn whale is larger than the largest tuna. You can't just scale up from a cold-blooded fish to a huge warm-blooded cetacean.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Because they're participants in the IWF, and while the IWF allows for scientific whaling, it does not allow for commercial whaling.

But then again, Japan says it's carrying out scientific whaling so it can go back to commercial whaling. Oh wait, it's supposed to be culture...

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

But then again, Japan says it's carrying out scientific whaling so it can go back to commercial whaling. Oh wait, it's supposed to be culture...

The IWC recognizes 3 types of whaling. From their website;

Presently three types of whaling take place. The first of these is commercial whaling conducted either under objection or reservation to the moratorium. The second, called aboriginal subsistence whaling is to support the needs of indigenous peoples. The third type is whaling under special permit.

Cultural whaling isn't a category. Some cultural falls within aboriginal and the IWC issues permits for this whaling every year, even for endangered species (which Antarctic Minke whales are not). But the IWC has refused to issue such permits to Japan.

So Japan's option is to perform this whaling under the commercial category. But the moratorium has temporarily halted commercial whaling, with some exceptions that aren't relevant to this discussion. Under the provisions of the moratorium the IWC is to review the status of all whale species periodically for possible removal from the moratorium. These reviews were first supposed to be done in the 1990's, but the IWC has yet to conduct any reviews. They claim specifically in the case of Antarctic Minke whales to not have enough information to conduct the review.

So Japan's option for resuming cultural whaling is to collect information through scientific (special permit) whaling, which will allow the IWC to perform its mandated review. And if the review finds Antarctic Minke whales can sustain a commercial hunt, then the IWC would be obligated to remove them from the moratorium and issue a yearly quota. Which would then allow Japan to commercially hunt them, whether for cultural reasons or just for food or for oil or any other commercial purpose.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The IWC recognizes 3 types of whaling. From their website;

Not talking about the IWC. It's what Japan tells the rest of the world..............and what they themselves believe.

So Japan's option is to perform this whaling under the commercial category.

An option, but not economically viable..........as few Japanese are eating it. It's one thing to tell the people Japanese culture is being discriminated against, the rest of the world it's "research", and another to drop the pretence and tell the people. "We`re harvesting whales for food? What's that, you don't really eat whale? Um....."

So Japan's option for resuming cultural whaling is to collect information through scientific

That's what they tell the world, and as I said...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It's what Japan tells the rest of the world..............and what they themselves believe.

You mean when they tell the world that they want to resume commercial whaling? Or when they tell the world they are collecting data so the IWC can review Antarctic Minke whales for removal from the moratorium?

An option, but not economically viable

That is for them to decide. Economic viability is not the only criteria used to make every decision. Governments make decisions that aren't economically viable every day.

That's what they tell the world, and as I said...

What was it you said again? Was it that they are collecting data? Or was it that the IWC refuses to review any species even though it is required by the moratorium? Or maybe it was that it is their decision to make, not your?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Japanese people are told by the government it's their culture. They certainly know nothing of scientific research. The rest of the world is told it's "research". A giant whopper I'm afraid. Voila

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Japanese people are told by the government it's their culture.

I am sure Japanese people don't need the government to tell them what is or isn't their culture.

The rest of the world is told it's "research". A giant whopper I'm afraid.

So when the IWC Scientific Committee says the data is useful are they lying or just stupid?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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