politics

Noda calls on S Korea to end 'illegal occupation' of disputed isles

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By Tomasz Janowski and Stanley White

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© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2012.

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Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Am not sure which one is releasing more greenhouse gasses.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

YuriOtaniAug. 25, 2012 - 06:39AM JST Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Am not sure which one is releasing more greenhouse gasses.

Pot Kettle Black? What are you referring to? What disputed island is being occupied by Japan? -The Senkakus are not occupied. -South Korea occupied the Liancourt Rocks well AFTER Japan made their claim clear and suggested goiing to the ICJ in 1954. -The Russians are illegally occupying the Southern Kuriles, as theSoviets took them by force AFTER Japan surrendered in WWII, which is why the United States, United Kingdom and he European Parliament considers them to be " Japanese terriroty under Russian administration", in reality "occcupied".

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Maybe we should all settle down to avoid inflaming tensions.. Is there some politician we could send to the island to do a fact-finding survey?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Yes, the stakes seem to raised by both sides every day. . Will this confrontation lead to a train wreck? I hope not, but things don't look so good at this point.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

One sure sign, throughout history, of a collapsing society is when the leaders focus all their energy on trivial issues, and ignore the bigger picture.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Sounds like Noda and his boys are hyping themselves up for war.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

UtrackAug. 25, 2012 - 08:21AM JST Sounds like Noda and his boys are hyping themselves up for war.

I guess you're not familar with Article 9 of the Japanese constitution.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

OssanAmerica

If I didn't know any different I would think Korea invaded Japan from reading your post. But Japan invaded Korea and at the end of WW2 Japan had to leave Korea. Now let's be real here, we all know those isles were in Korea's possession before the Japanese illegal occupation of Korea.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Now let's be real here, we all know those isles were in Korea's possession before the Japanese illegal occupation of Korea.

No they weren't. If Korea think so, prove it in front of an international global audience under international law.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

article 9 has nothing to do with Korea's possession of those isles before the Japanese illegal occupation of Korea.

nigelboy, ROK does not have to show proof where it is already common knowledge.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

nigelboy, ROK does not have to show proof where it is already common knowledge.

Among Koreans who were taught that way.

When Korean citizens are parading all over the world with their "Dokdo is ours" with their banners in intl sporting events, newspaper ads, t-shirts, globe trotting motorcycle riders, license plates, etc", the common perception around those actions are that Dokdo is not yours and you're trying to get it back.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

nigelboy Aug. 25, 2012 - 08:55AM JST When Korean citizens are parading all over the world with their "Dokdo is ours" with their banners in intl sporting events, newspaper ads, t-shirts, globe trotting motorcycle riders, license plates, etc", the common perception around those actions are that Dokdo is not yours and you're trying to get it back.

Before trying to answer this question, it’s necessary to point out that the Koreans themselves, both its leaders and ordinary citizens don’t see their recent conduct as assertive at all. In their eyes, South Korea has merely been defending its legitimate national interests. There’s nothing wrong with claiming Dokdo as part of Korea's ‘core interests,’ confronting Japan over disputed islands. And this is precisely where the problem lies. At one level, it can be seen as a problem of conflicting perceptions. The Koreans and the Japanese simply see the same set of issues from starkly different perspectives. At a deeper level, however, the growing tensions between Korea and Japan originate from more powerful and enduring dynamics. As long as such dynamics continue to shape Korean definitions of their interests and Japanese responses, the world is likely to see repeated disagreements or even acrimonious confrontations between these two countries.

The most important and obvious is dynamic at work is the rapid shift of the balance of power between the Japan and South Korea. An inevitable consequence of this shift, which has strengthened South Korea rapidly in relative terms, is how South Korean elites perceive their interests and pursue them. Before South Korea acquired its current economic, diplomatic and military capabilities, some realists in the Japan assumed that Korea would never equal Japan in military strength, but became one, regardless of its rhetorical commitment to a peaceful rise.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Before trying to answer this question, it’s necessary to point out that the Koreans themselves, both its leaders and ordinary citizens don’t see their recent conduct as assertive at all. In their eyes, South Korea has merely been defending its legitimate national interests. There’s nothing wrong with claiming Dokdo as part of Korea's ‘core interests,’ confronting Japan over disputed islands. And this is precisely where the problem lies. At one level, it can be seen as a problem of conflicting perceptions. The Koreans and the Japanese simply see the same set of issues from starkly different perspectives. At a deeper level, however, the growing tensions between Korea and Japan originate from more powerful and enduring dynamics. As long as such dynamics continue to shape Korean definitions of their interests and Japanese responses, the world is likely to see repeated disagreements or even acrimonious confrontations between these two countries.

sfjp330

From An Assertive China the ‘New Normal’? Minxin Pei The Diplomat, November 24, 2010

Before trying to answer this question, it’s necessary to point out that the Chinese themselves—both its leaders and ordinary citizens—don’t see their recent conduct as assertive at all. In their eyes, China has merely been defending its legitimate national interests. There’s nothing wrong with claiming the South China Sea as part of China’s ‘core interests,’ resisting US-led pressures for currency revaluation, confronting Japan over disputed islands, or expanding its economic reach in resource-rich developing countries.

And this is precisely where the problem lies. At one level, it can be seen as a problem of conflicting perceptions: the Chinese and the West simply see the same set of issues from starkly different perspectives. At a deeper level, however, the growing tensions between China and the West originate from more powerful and enduring dynamics. As long as such dynamics continue to shape Chinese definitions of their interests and Western responses, the world is likely to see repeated disagreements or even acrimonious confrontations between China and major Western powers.

The most important—and obvious—dynamic at work is the rapid shift of the balance of power between the West and China. An inevitable consequence of this shift, which has strengthened China rapidly in relative terms, is how Chinese elites perceive their interests and pursue them. Before China acquired its current economic, diplomatic and military capabilities, some realists in the West predicted that China would act like a great power when it became one, regardless of its rhetorical commitment to a ‘peaceful rise.’..

http://carnegieendowment.org/2010/11/24/assertive-china-new-normal/bmtt

STOP IT. I MEAN PLEASE STOP THIS NONSENSE/

0 ( +5 / -5 )

fip330 of course they do not see it as assertive. Just like when Lee was saying he would beat up the Emperior to get him to appoligise. Shows his true nature beating on a old man. None of this surprises me, after all Japan is more hated than anyone in South Korea.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

nigelboy

STOP IT. I MEAN PLEASE STOP THIS NONSENSE/

Hahahaahaaa. sfjp330 post was good too. I felt I had nothing to say after reading it.

YuriOtani

Japan is more hated than anyone in South Korea.

I don't know about that, K pop stars would not have concerts in Japan if they hated the Japanese. So I think it just stems from Japan's past transgressions that some folks ( the youth ) are able to let go and some folks are not able to let go.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Hahahaahaaa. sfjp330 post was good too

Believe me, it's not the first time he/she did this.

The first paragraph, believe it or not, I agreed with. But the second paragraph,

"The most important and obvious is dynamic at work is the rapid shift of the balance of power between the Japan and South Korea. An inevitable consequence of this shift, which has strengthened South Korea rapidly in relative terms, is how South Korean elites perceive their interests and pursue them. Before South Korea acquired its current economic, diplomatic and military capabilities, some realists in the Japan assumed that Korea would never equal Japan in military strength, but became one, regardless of its rhetorical commitment to a peaceful rise."

No. Nobody in the right mind (globally) thinks this way. Then, I did a copy/paste of his comments and voilà!!!

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Another truly international incident in the making. These island disputes between Japan,China and Korea and the media whipping up a nationalistic frenzy in all of the countries mentioned. Has nobody learnt lessons from the past. Each of these countries has bigger domestic issues to concentrate on,are the politicians so inept that they can't resolve those domestic issues which are more important to their citizens, that they have to embroil themselves in this mindless issue. Why do we have elections, for what reason ??. The time has come worldwide, to make all elected officials accountable for their actions, through the Legal system and the courts. Look at the world today, then ask yourselves, 1/ is this the best we can offer our children and our grandchildren 2/ Who got us in this mess ??? Something to think about before you vote next time.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

nigelboy I was wondering how you knew it was someone elses words. I'm like nigelboy must be a genius or something he remember an article from 2 years ago.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

History say Dokdo island and the Korea's penisula was invaded and occupied by Japan. How can Japan claimed Dokdo with an imaginary and artificial name called Takeshima? Like Dioayu as Senkaku.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I guess you're not familar with Article 9 of the Japanese constitution.

I'm curious about that, so let's explore a bit. From Japan's point of view, there is an illegal occupation of their land, so it isn't an international dispute, it's an invasion. Assuming for just a moment that the SDF is sent to reclaim the land, and assuming that this was successful, would Japan have an internal disagreement about whether or not this violated the constitution, or would everyone agree that it did not?

I'm curious about the legal aspect only, and I'm not presenting an argument that such a path should be taken. I understand that the Koreans here dispute that the land is Japanese. I'm just wondering how the events would be dealt with legally in Japan.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ugghhh. This is not going to end well unless they agree to share the property and surrounding assets. The U.S. doesn't want any of this nonsense either, as its relations with both Japan and Korea are important.

After the end of the war, South Korea started an illegal occupation

Arguably. But a few troops on a couple of islands close to the mainland is harmless and so very nothing compared to the 35 year invasion of said mainland by Japan from 1910, which barely registers a mention in parliament, tv programs etc and when it does, they use pretty words like gappei.

I am of the opinion this morning that Japan should back off. And with this, I rest back in my armchair.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Getting back to the subject at hand, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, the DPJ cabinet even refused to call it "illegal occupation" as late as last year despite repeated efforts by the LDP to do so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKjc0CdMbJI

I can't remember when but I read in magazine that there is already a standard playbook among different ministries that all cabinet members had to adhere to whether it was DPJ, LDP, or Communist party when they take the leadership role.

In regards to Takeshima, it stated that Japan will not pursue Korea the ICJ unless an official military base is built or personnel occupy there. (Right now, the island is guarded by Korean police). So when 2MB landed, did Korea violate it?

According to the Korean constitution under article 74

(1)ThePresident shall be Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces under the conditions prescribed by the Constitution and Act.

This 180 degree turn by DPJ, who has shown to be very sympathetic towards Korean government, makes me believe that such force are in work here considering those above factors.

If my knowledge is correct, this is the first time PM addressed the territorial dispute this way whereby he explained the legality of Japan's claims briefly.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Arguably. But a few troops on a couple of islands close to the mainland is harmless and so very nothing compared to the 35 year invasion of said mainland by Japan from 1910, which barely registers a mention in parliament, tv programs etc and when it does, they use pretty words like gappei

It's "heigo" 併合. Annexation. Japan was not at war with Korea which resulted in the annexation. The unilateral declaration of Rhee line resulted in 44 Japanese casualties.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Farmboy

Here is part of the official translation of article 9.

the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.

To answer your question Japan cannot use the SDF to RE-claim land since it does not physically threat Japanese citizens.

Daijoboots

Japan did not invade the Korean peninsula, it annexed it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This is all getting a bit dangerous, all sides are heading to a point where they will not be able to back out.

I for one don't my taxes used to fight almost certainly short and pointless skirmish over some rocks in the middle of no-where. (we all know its not really about rocks or islands in any case or even national pride but resource, political positioning and money)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan did not invade the Korean peninsula, it annexed it.

With all due respect, choosing one word over another would not, in the past nor the present, make it any more pleasant for those at the receiving end of it.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

As an addendum, during the Sino-Japan war and the Pacific war, Japan request enlistments (not draft) which resulted in the number of applicants exceeded the number required exceeded at one year over 60 times. (One soldier for every 60 applicants.)

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9C%9D%E9%AE%AE%E4%BA%BA%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E5%85%B5#cite_note-B02031284700-6

In fact, one applicant who was denied committed suicide because he could not join. http://ameblo.jp/kamen110/entry-11235859270.html

Sometimes, history gets clouded when Koreans campaign their victimhood so much that people believe that they were at war with Japan. Not true. They were fighting for the Japanese.

Hence, if people want to equate Japan with Germany, the appropriate comparison would be that Korea should be associated with Austria.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

This excerpt is from www.korea.net

Dokdo was the first piece absorbed by Japan when it invaded the Joseon Dynasty (1392-1910). For Japan to insist on possession of Dokdo is no different from denying Korea's history of liberation from Japanese rule. Japan's claim over Dokdo implies that it has never abandoned territorial ambitions even after its illegal occupation of the Korean Peninsula ended in 1945.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

With all due respect, choosing one word over another would not, in the past nor the present, make it any more pleasant for those at the receiving end of it.

True. But when you ask SE Asian countries who were colonized by the West, they think Koreans are whiners. Perspective, I guess.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

They're on Dokdo as illegally as Japan is on the Senkakus; what's more while SK says there is no dispute, Japan says there is no dispute over said latter islands, so Yuri's comment about Noda's obvious attempt to garner points is bang on: pot calling the kettle black.

Obviously Noda knows he's on his way out and the DPJ is going to get it's butt handed to it in the coming election, so in that desperate time he's avoiding all that's important and trying to draw out the radicals and solidify people under him with this rubbish.

The lands are lived on, administered (recognized world-wide), and owned by South Korea. That's all there is to it. Now, let the radicals log in with their various accounts and turn what will be a couple thumbs up into minus 7 within a few seconds, it won't change the facts I just mentioned.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

UtrackAug. 25, 2012 - 08:43AM JST OssanAmerica If I didn't know any different I would think Korea invaded Japan from reading your post. But Japan invaded Korea and at the >end of WW2 Japan had to leave Korea. Now let's be real here, we all know those isles were in Korea's possession before >the Japanese illegal occupation of Korea.

Japan dd not "invade" Korea, it was annexed in 1910. Nor was it illegal and no one complained including the U.S. Koreans were all Japanese citizens until 1945. No we don't "all know" the Liancourt Rocks were Korean posessions at any time before or after the annexation. But if South Korea has the evidence to support it's position as it clasims, it should settle it at the ICJ. Until then, Japan has every right to consider them "illegally occupied".

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

A South Korean newspaper said Noda was trying a “diplomatic gamble” to shore up his dismal ratings ahead of an election his Democrats look set to lose.

Gamble? He surely knows that he will lose the next election no matter what he tries. Then why this riotous rhetoric? Sounds like Saving the Emperor's Face. But he forgets that the louder the noise, the lesser the Emperor's comfort.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

They're on Dokdo as illegally as Japan is on the Senkakus; what's more while SK says there is no dispute, Japan says there is no dispute over said latter islands, so Yuri's comment about Noda's obvious attempt to garner points is bang on: pot calling the kettle black

We went over this smith. Japan believes there is no dispute because "NOBODY HAS DARED TO CHALLENGE US" in the international court of law. It's getting tiresome.

Obviously Noda knows he's on his way out and the DPJ is going to get it's butt handed to it in the coming election, so in that desperate time he's avoiding all that's important and trying to draw out the radicals and solidify people under him with this rubbish.

Except that the resolution to condemn SK 's actions were approved by lower house with LDP in unanimous agreement. +/- Zero.

The lands are lived on, administered (recognized world-wide), and owned by South Korea. That's all there is to it. Now, let the radicals log in with their various accounts and turn what will be a couple thumbs up into minus 7 within a few seconds, it won't change the facts I just mentioned.

The residents are paid by the SK government to live there. They're not owned. They are illegally occupied as a result of military force. Didn't know you were sensitive about "votes". LOL.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

OssanAmerican and nigelboy

The ROK Govt says they were invaded and in their eyes they were. Japan says Korea was annexed and in Japan eyes they were.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Gamble? He surely knows that he will lose the next election no matter what he tries. Then why this riotous rhetoric? Sounds like Saving the Emperor's Face. But he forgets that the louder the noise, the lesser the Emperor's comfort.

This doesn't make sense to me. DPJ before being a majority party in the previous election, is well known for being soft in regards to foreign relations, especially Korea and they get voted in. Heck. The first action by the DPJ lead cabinet in regards to foreign relations was to let them borrow the Korean artifacts in which Korea saw no significance back in 1965. Then you got the DPJ cabinet members profuciously refusing the word "illegal occupation" in regards to Takeshima last year as linked above Aug. 25, 2012 - 10:21AM JST

It's simple. Korea broke the line.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The ROK Govt says they were invaded and in their eyes they were. Japan says Korea was annexed and in Japan eyes they were.

Yes Utrack. Take all those issues (legality of annexation, comfort women, and forced labor) to ICJ if they're not happy with it. They can easily do this by signing the Declarations Recognizing the Jurisdiction of the Court as Compulsory whereby Japan has to not only agree to the jurisdiction of ICJ, they are obligated to accept the judgement.

My guess is that Japanese government will use this next if Korea starts bitching about the above.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Yawn... all these arguments are just copy-pasted arguments from the Japanese ultra-nationalists that I've heard a million times before.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If Japan are willing to open and read the original history (not the Japanese own revised historical text). Then shall Japan will realized that Dokdo belongs to South Korea and the whole Korean's people, not Japan nor Japanese as owner..

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Japanese people respect the Emperor much more than they do to their politicians. It seems that Mr. Noda tries to show the J-people that he protects the Emperor. But in reality, he rides the Emperor's back. I think the emperor has severe stress now because of this. I think he likes this crisis involving him to be over ASAP becasue the responsibility and wrongdoings of previous emperor during the WWII will be exposed.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

smithinjapanAug. 25, 2012 - 11:01AM JST

They're on Dokdo as illegally as Japan is on the Senkakus; what's more while SK says there is no dispute, Japan says >there is no dispute over said latter islands, so Yuri's comment about Noda's obvious attempt to garner points is bang on: >pot calling the kettle black.

No, Japan isn't occupying the Senkakus.

Obviously Noda knows he's on his way out and the DPJ is going to get it's butt handed to it in the coming election, so in >that desperate time he's avoiding all that's important and trying to draw out the radicals and solidify people under him with >this rubbish.

Rubbish that was all started by Lee Myun Bak.

The lands are lived on, administered (recognized world-wide), and owned by South Korea.

Recognized world-wide as adnminstered AND under dispute..

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

UtrackAug. 25, 2012 - 11:24AM JST OssanAmerican and nigelboy The ROK Govt says they were invaded and in their eyes they were. Japan says Korea was annexed and in Japan eyes >they were.

That's only in South Korea where re-writing history is the national past time. It is recognized World-Wide...that Korea was annexed in 1910. You know who was invaded? All the Asian countries invaded by the Imperial Japanese military in WWII which contained over 240,000 Korean soldiers. Ever ask a Vietnamese if he thinks Korea "invaded" his country?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Yes Utrack. Take all those issues (legality of annexation, comfort women, and forced labor) to ICJ if they're not happy with it. They can easily do this by signing the Declarations Recognizing the Jurisdiction of the Court as Compulsory whereby Japan has to not only agree to the jurisdiction of ICJ, they are obligated to accept the judgement.

nigelboy, you know ROK will not do this as things are now.

My guess is that Japanese government will use this next if Korea starts bitching about the above.

What, that Japan thinks that Korea was annexed?? I think ROK would have a collective fit and beat Japan to the ICJ.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

DaijobootsAug. 25, 2012 - 10:36AM JST "Japan did not invade the Korean peninsula, it annexed it." With all due respect, choosing one word over another would not, in the past nor the present, make it any more pleasant for those at the receiving end of it.

Firstly, it is not a matter of words for the sake of it. INVASION and ANNEXATION are separate specific terms which have clear definitions and legal ramifications. As fot those on the receiving end, there were Koreans against it and Koreans for it. Just like there were Koreans who were forced to join the Japanese military, amd there were those who willingly volunteered, which happens to be the vast majority.Koreans have re-written their history by denying any facts which run counter to their position of being "total and complete victims" of Japan.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

All the Asian countries invaded by the Imperial Japanese military in WWII which contained over 240,000 Korean soldiers. Ever ask a Vietnamese if he thinks Korea "invaded" his country?

That's not Korea's fault, They were probably forced to be soldiers by Japan. It's also not vietnamese folk fault they probably didn't know Japan invaded Korea. It all boils down to Japan should not have invaded folks.

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Hahahaha, that's what all the nationalists say... "Uh, we didn't invade Korea... Korea just happened to have invited us!" (seriously).

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Hahahaha, that's what all the nationalists say... "Uh, we didn't invade Korea... Korea just happened to have invited us!" (seriously).

yeah. Mister Anderson (Matrix). Seriously.

"Before we pitched the net, a fish jumped into the net," said Midori Komatsu, who was the foreign affairs director at the Office of the Japanese Resident General in Korea, recollecting the eve of the Japanese annexation of Korea in August 1910. His remarks are sinking deep into our minds, and we again confirm that 91 years ago we surrendered our country to the Japanese colonial government due to our hopeless ineptitude. On Aug. 29, 1910, the imperial government of Japan promulgated that it had taken over the entire government and administration of Korea, and Wednesday was the anniversary of the national humiliation. In studying this history, let us find out who chased the fish - annexation - into the net. Choson, or Korea, suggested annexation to Japan first. Lee Ik-jik was a secret envoy of Prime Minister Lee Wan-yong.

http://article.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.asp?total_id=2597119&cloc=

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Thomas Anderson

Hahahaha, that's what all the nationalists say... "Uh, we didn't invade Korea... Korea just happened to have invited us!" (seriously).

Yup, I'm thinking since OssanAmerica said something about changing history in textbooks that this is what Japan's students are taught. ROK's students are taught they were invaded. I think annexed is a gentile way of saying invaded. Or else way would the ROK say they were invaded.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

That's not Korea's fault, They were probably forced to be soldiers by Japan.

Utrack. Please refer to my post stamped Aug. 25, 2012 - 10:44AM JST

They were volunteers where the number of applicants EXCEEDED 60 times the number IJA seeked. When one could not join, they committed suicide.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

What's tiresome is the hypocrisy you so adamantly adhere to. Sure, China hasn't contested Japan on the issue. Why? because they feel they don't need to, same as Japan feels they don't. And the funniest part is, Gemba himself brought up the notion that Japan doesn't need to contest the Senkakus IMMEDIATELY after saying SK should go to the IJC. Don't you understand that? Why would you even bring that up yourself if you've not been challenged on it and have no doubts?

"The residents are paid by the SK government to live there. They're not owned. They are illegally occupied as a result of military force. Didn't know you were sensitive about "votes". LOL."

First, I'm not sensitive about votes -- I just think it's funny people get upset enough to come on here under various handles and downvote you if you talk against Japan on this issue -- shows you're under their skin.

As for 'occupation', that's merely the word used by the government here, and its apologists, and it's incorrect. Doesn't matter who owned it in the past, it's South Korean now. If you don't believe me -- go on over there and ask.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

same contributors on this thread (and all previous threads on these "island" dispute topics) going round in circles

1 ( +1 / -0 )

When I review some of Korean internet news, Koreans are pretty much calm about this now. But the Japanese politicians are banging the drum to make the noise louder. Why? Because there are nothing else they do. Every sector they touch turns out failure. Pension, econmomy, radiation, nuclear power, etc...They better be concentrating the well-being of their people.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

What's tiresome is the hypocrisy you so adamantly adhere to. Sure, China hasn't contested Japan on the issue. Why? because they feel they don't need to,

OK stop smith. Please explain the reasoning behind this. I'd sure like to know before I continue this debate.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

China is not bothering Japan and vice versa because the Chinese government and the Japanese government are both working on a secret pact - that they both not bother each other. It's all just a part of diplomacy, which I guess is a smart enough move.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

China is not bothering Japan and vice versa because the Chinese government and the Japanese government are both working on a secret pact - that they both not bother each other. It's all just a part of diplomacy, which I guess is a smart enough move.

Mister Anderson (Matrix)

Japanese government, in fact, is bothering China as evidenced by Noda' s official speech. He went as far as to say that China has no claims because Japan incorported the islands in 1895 and China's assertion came in 1971 when underwater resources were discovered. To my knowledge, no PM has ever stated this.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Thomas Anderson:

" China is not bothering Japan and vice versa "

What does China have to do with Takeshima/Dokto????

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan talked tough on Friday

Good after 50 years.Just about time.

If you do not do anything within the next 10 years, it will be all for SK. You need to play tough against SK. Go for the Gusto!!!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Reading the comments, I have this nagging suspicion that some commentators are confusing Takeshima and the Senkakus.... otherwise, some comments are totally nonsensical.

I suggest a look at the map to clarify the location of the two different island groups, claimed by a different set of actors respectively...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The first task for America's 'Return to Asia' policy must settle down the conflicts between her allies rather than talk tough at China! Both Obama and Hillary were useless they failed to keep asia in stability and they must GO!

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

The 'illegal occupation' remarks will sure kicks off another round of blashing and hostilities between Japan and south Korea! And there will be more difficluty for America's role in asia! Well Mr Obama is very troubled enough, it is doubtful America's intervene will do anything! Well done President Lee Myung Bak, you have nothing to loss but keep gaining and I believes his influences will continues after his presidency, both Beijiang and Pyongyang welcomes you!

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Did the ICJ ever given the verdict 'Illegal' to condemn South Korea's possessing the Takeshima island? Why Mr Noda using this 'word to decribe Japan having the legitimacy and soverignity to own the island? The people of SK might keep chasing Japan to make further apologies over Noda's remarks! Once again, I am very appreciate America'never take sides' over the isles disputes, that was really helpful to escalte the struggles! America knows nothing and dont want to know anything about asian countries but her own 'hegamony' in west pacific...was that too much short sighted?

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

It seems like Japan, SK hating each other rather than Hating North Korea, China and Russia! How amazing

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

just-a-bigguy:

" Did the ICJ ever given the verdict 'Illegal' to condemn South Korea's possessing the Takeshima island? "

The ICJ was never asked. Japan has suggested to ask the ICJ to rule, but Korea is refusing. Why do you think that?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It is like a rich guy not investing on risky business. He just sits on his money. No need to show how much he has to a hungry and zealous neighbor.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ossanamerica, Koreans don't see their time under Japanese rule as a positive thing. Using the word "annexed" instead of "invaded", and implying that Koreans were happy with their situation until 1945 is just simple absurd. And you must know that. Have you ever talked to Koreans? Or are you too busy pushing the play button for the war music in the big black truck?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

this is just like other stories happened before.

point 1: Japanese people start question why they have so much debt on America and what is the radar for? and maybe start to kick them out. Then as usual, America will start pitting.

point 2: First he supports SKorea make them go more aggressive that make Japanese know why they need him and start buy more arms.

point 3: After gains money and trust, he make SKorea and Japan shake hand and after years later, they become good friend and start wonder what the arms for. Then go back to point 1

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The first task for America's 'Return to Asia' policy must settle down the conflicts between her allies

don't forget he is supplier too. if Asia remain calm, who will buy this arms and troops? That's why Asia always conflict.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

if Asia remain calm, who will buy this arms and troops?

America have to clear up its obsolete stock and get back the fund for developing new weapon. In that way, America always leads the world with the most advanced weapon.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It is all about the natural gas under the islands and has nothing to do with the islands and those islands are legally and historically japanese. 1895 for Takeshima and SF treaty of 1971

0 ( +1 / -1 )

what would be the international law says about those island were recommended, not just because of its historical events.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

globalwatcher: "If you do not do anything within the next 10 years, it will be all for SK. You need to play tough against SK. Go for the Gusto!!!"

It's just empty words intended for political points. Noda knows he and the DPJ are on their way out, so this is one last stab at an increase in approval ratings. Japan knows full well it can do NOTHING to actualize their claims to the islands so long as SK simply states there is no dispute (same as Japan does with the Senkakus, by the way). So, yeah, in 10 years it will all be for SK... well... moreso than it already is, and you're kidding yourself if you think it isn't already.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Utrack:

" ROK does not have to show proof where it is already common knowledge. "

By definition, if something is as hotly disputed as this, there is no such thing as "common knowledge". Clearly there is nothing "common" in what the Japanese and Koreans each "know" about the issue.

That is why the dispute should be settled by a third party, ie. the ICJ.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

.>>China! Both Obama and Hillary were useless they failed to keep asia in stability and they must GO!

Be grateful that Obama and Hillary are in Washington. Otherwise, China is filled with "fire". Unlike GOP that has been taken over by the Tea Party (right wingers for war), both of them have been negotiating. I know so.

And there will be more difficluty for America's role in asia! Well Mr Obama is very troubled enough, it is doubtful America's intervene will do anything!

Misquote quote #2 by you. Actually it is opposit of what you have just posted. You are not following all statements from the Department of State and Department from Defence. This is a big misquote by you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

UtrackAug. 25, 2012 - 12:06PM JST "All the Asian countries invaded by the Imperial Japanese military in WWII which contained over 240,000 Korean soldiers. Ever ask a Vietnamese if he thinks Korea "invaded" his country? That's not Korea's fault, They were probably forced to be soldiers by Japan. It's also not vietnamese folk fault they >probably didn't know Japan invaded Korea. It all boils down to Japan should not have invaded folks.

This is an example of Korea's tendency to deny any aspects of reality that runs counter to their image of complete victims of Japan. No, they weren'tall "forced" by Japan. the numbers pof Korean soldiers far exceeded the recruitment quotas, and the forced conscription didn't occur till late, I beleve a yerar before the war ended. Japan never invaded Korea in 1910, they annexed it. This is again an example of Korea re-writing history to suit it's victim status. Korea was pat of the Japanese Empire and partook in invading Asia. Koreans soldiers who were POW guards were charged and sentenced by the Allies of class-B war crimes, brutality towards allied POWs. As for Vietnam you obviously don't know that I'm talking about Korean soliders brutalizing POWs duiring the Vietnam war.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

yasukuniAug. 25, 2012 - 05:28PM JST Ossanamerica, Koreans don't see their time under Japanese rule as a positive thing. Using the word "annexed" instead >of "invaded", and implying that Koreans were happy with their situation until 1945 is just simple absurd. And you must >know that. Have you ever talked to Koreans? Or are you too busy pushing the play button for the war music in the big >black truck?

That some Koreans supported the 1910 annexation and some were against it is historical fact. In other words, some were happy about it, some weren't. Or do you believe all Kotreans are mindless lemmings and differing opinions don't exist? I for one do not subscribe to such a view. And yes I have not only talked to Koreans I talk to them all the time. But the ones IO know are educated, smart, professional people who have a life, not biased hate warriors.

Your silly comment about "big black truck" is both impolite and offensive, what we normally refer to as "name-calling". And comming from one who uses "Yasukuni" as a name no less.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

smithinjapanAug. 25, 2012 - 12:34PM JST What's tiresome is the hypocrisy you so adamantly adhere to. Sure, China hasn't contested Japan on the issue. Why? >because they feel they don't need to, same as Japan feels they don't.

What's tiresome here is that reality seems to escape you. China hasn't suggested to Japan settling at the ICJ because one- their argument is poor, but more importantly comnsidering the nember of territoriasl disputes China has with other Asian nations (17 or more) it would set a precedence that would work against itself. Other Asian countries like Phillipines, Vietnam, Malaysia may join the bandewagon and take China to the ICJ.

And the funniest part is, Gemba himself brought up the notion that Japan doesn't need to contest the Senkakus >IMMEDIATELY after saying SK should go to the IJC. Don't you understand that? Why would you even bring that up >yourself if you've not been challenged on it and have no doubts?

What you fail to comprehend is the basic tenet of judicial procedure. Japan already adnministers the Senkakus. It can't take itself to hre ICJ. It is up to China to do so because it is the one with a claim. Likewise, South Korea can not take itself to the ICJ. Japan has a claim and is prepared to do so.

As for 'occupation', that's merely the word used by the government here, and its apologists, and it's incorrect. Doesn't >matter who owned it in the past, it's South Korean now. If you don't believe me -- go on over there and ask.

If there are people on it on a full time basis with permanent structres, "occupied". It;s not just "words" it;s both reality and common sense. But I do agree that if you go to South Korea they will say it;s theirs. But until South Korea behaves like a civilized country with any honor and settles this at the ICJ, the entire world will remain in doubt.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan's claim over the Dokdo is clearly a violation of the Japanese Instrument of Surrender and the 5 party WWII peace treaty which clearly states that: "The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine."

In 2010, China and Russia (both having territorial dispute with Japan and both contracting parties of Potsdam Agreement) joined forces and vowed to defend the outcome of WWII, i.e. the Potsdam Agreement. S Korea can consider joining forces with them and bring up Japan's violation of the Potsdam Agreement and Japanese Instrument of Surrender to the UN which was founded based on WWII conferences such as those in Potsdam, and settle the dispute once and for all.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Pres.Lee Myung Bak step foot on Dokdo is definately not a good idea to gain sympathy from the world, he should bring up the history of japanese assassination of Empress Myeongseong 1895, a murder that justice has yet to prevail, that will further exposing the Japnese brutality over Koreans, let the whole world see not just the Dokodo disputes but also a crime done by the state of Japan!

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

The dispute between SK and Japan is definately constructive to asia and west pacific security in long term! Because it is good to remind many other south east asian countries especially the ASEAN countries, India, Australia...etc. That if America has no influences to curb her close allies conflicting with each other, how can you supppose her policy: 'Return to asia' is a credible committment of security. Sometimes when those countries were over confidences of her 'protections' and became their 'myth' which will lead to a real danger! Here we can see her own allies has escalated from jealousy to danger when tough talks get nasty!

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

The Japanese are making a big deal over nothing to capitalize on their increasing xenophobia against Koreans.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Another interesting tidbit about Takshima,

http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=001&aid=0005776575

It states 71% of the elementary school teacher surveyed stated that they did not truly grasp the history of Takeshima/Dokdo for they did not know the Treaty of Peace nor Rusk Documents which is the key part in determining the soverignty of the islands. 55% of them also stated that it is difficult for them to teach about Takeshima/Dokdo. 74% teachers who teach about Takeshima/Dokdo said they use some information off the internet. One of the respondents indicated at even though the sites have evidences, it's basically a right wing site with their devoted love for Takeshima/Dokdo.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Yes, the stakes seem to raised by both sides every day.

Not really. Most of the shrill hype is coming from Japan who have in the last 7 days:

1) threatened to stop the swap exchange 2) threatened to stop buying Korean bonds 3) threatened to stop diplomatic relations 4) threatened to kill South Korean tourists and Zainichi Koreans 5) threatened to boycott Korean products 6) threatened to end all economic relations with Korea 7) threatened to ban KPOP (lol) 8) threatened to ban Koreans from entering Japan 9) threatened to carry out military attack and take the island (under the pretense of self-defense) 10) threatened to carry out more Japanese actions that is yet to be thought of

Whew.... have I missed anything? Meanwhile let's look at what Korea has done to deserve all these threats.

1) Korea is in possession of the island (nothing has changed for decades, what else is new?)

2)Lee Myung Bak visited the island (big freaking deal, Koreans view the island as Korean, it's only natural for any Korean to visit the island that's held by Korea, and not Japan). If Japanese are visiting Yasukuni all the time, why can't Koreans visit their own island?

3)Lee Myung Bak said some not so nice things about the Emperor. OK, that was rude and he shouldn't have said it, but this is enough for Japan to go to war over? You gotta be kidding me. And the Emperor is not a human sun god. lol...

I think Japan has gone off their rockers, with all these hyping and screaming for revenge. But they're too scared to act this way toward China and Russia.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Not really. Most of the shrill hype is coming from Japan who have in the last 7 days:

How convenient for you to include individuals actions along with the government while not doing the same on your end.

Let's review the government side.

-Debating whether or not to "extend" the current swap agreement. Basically, Japan has NO OBLIGATION to extend this. Hence, extending it would be a "favor". -Debating whether or not to purchase ADDITIONAL Korean bonds. This again has NO OBLIGATION. Additional purchase of a soft volatile currency denominated bond is in fact a "FAVOR". -Contemplating whether or not halt talks within the high officials of each other's staffs. Well, you MESSED up this one since you returned a diplomatic letter via registered mail.

Let's review the Korean government side.

-2MB lands in Takeshima. He's the first President to do so despite previous attempts by the Japanese counterparts to do so. -Complete utter disrepect to the people of Japan by stating that the Emperor, who had no intention of visiting Korea in the first place, must kneel and apologize to the people who were involved in the Independence (<---Huh?? Is 2MB talking about the smoking potheads in Shanghai who got no support from their people so they lived off from proceeds from China?) -Your equivalent FM reiterated the above. -2MB returned a diplomatic letter from the Prime Minister after reading it, citing that it contained "Takeshima" for he claimed he landed in "Dokdo". And yet your PM as well as the entire nation gets mad about one of the Japanese textbook mentioning about the history of "Takeshima". Huh???

3 ( +4 / -1 )

2MB lands in Takeshima. He's the first President to do so despite previous attempts by the Japanese counterparts to do so

correct that to

2MB lands in Takeshima. He's the first President to do so despite previous attempts by the Japanese counterparts NOT to do so.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Lee Myung Bak said some not so nice things about the Emperor. OK, that was rude and he shouldn't have said it, but this is enough for Japan to go to war over?

Ok. You admit it as "rude". The Japanese government has passed a resolution as well as Cabinet demand for the Korean governemt to apologize.

The shoe is in the other foot now.

Even if Korea (which I DOUBT sincerely) apologize, the people of Japan can NOW play the game of "not sincere enough" for every lawmaker that questions the apology becomes null and void. In fact, EVERY media in Korea has to address the Emperor as his title (like ALL OTHER NATIONS do EXCEPT KOREA) and not "日王”(Japan's King).

Is Korea up to this task? You and I know there is NO CHANCE of this ever happening.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

nigelboy, Korea returned the rude letter from Japan because Japan was the one who broke the diplomatic protocol and published the entire letter to the world, THEN sent it to Korea, as if you were making a point of some kind. Everyone knew what was in that letter, why Korea has to accept the garbage trash from Japan?

What 2MB said was a little rude, the little "emperor" wasn't going to visit Korea so he had nothing to do with Dokdo, so Lee shouldn't brought him up. But still, what's the big deal? Apologize because 2MB insulted the little "emperor"? And you pass a bill for it? Ready to go to war for it? lol.... Little thin skinned, if I say so? It's like crying and balling because somebody called you a name. But too bad Japan can't afford the same amount of courtesy and thought for the victims of your little emperor's war criminal father's victims. To be an emperor, you need an empire, so where's the empire? The king of Japan is far more accurate, the term stands.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

one who broke the diplomatic protocol and published the entire letter to the world,

What did it say? I want the entire text please.

Everyone knew what was in that letter, why Korea has to accept the garbage trash from Japan?

Again, I will refer to the above. The entire text please since apparently you know what's in the letter. The entire text please.

What 2MB said was a little rude, the little "emperor" wasn't going to visit Korea so he had nothing to do with Dokdo, so Lee shouldn't brought him up. But still, what's the big deal? Apologize because 2MB insulted the little "emperor"? And you pass a bill for it?

Nope. The apology request has nothing to do with Takeshima. Your argument is getting childish there. If your beloved country are the only ones the entire world today where the government officials mock the Japanese Emperor, be my guest.

But too bad Japan can't afford the same amount of courtesy and thought for the victims of your little emperor's war criminal father's victims

Your country was a willing participant. Stop acting like you were fighting against Japan. The Allieds denied your request to include your pot headed so-called independent Korean office in Shanghai as victors, remember?? Learn your history. Speaking of which, your country once rejected a letter from Japan because it contained the words "皇”because to them, the only emperor was that of China. We know what happened next one of which that Korea was not to be taken seriously as a "state" by not only Japan but the Western nations.

This is what happens when your country omits these historical fact and make matters worse by glorifying the Joseon Period (tributory of China, piss poor state for centuries).

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Sure, I want to tell you, Mr Noda, the same message as well, regarding Diaoyu island.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

lawPM Noda, you can forget about Dokdo rocks. The South Koreans are on it; "possession is nine-tenths of the law."

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan lost the war, and they had to give up the territories that they took when they were on the imperialism rampage.

Japan can't do anything effective, so they might as well shut up with empty threats, or put up with war. Economic threats against Korea won't do a thing when Korea is now in a much stronger position vies a vie Japan. For instance, today's headline in Japan says Japan is going off the cliff in sovereign bond, and their international credit rating is in danger of falling again. Meanwhile, Korea's soverign rating is now better than Japan's.

http://jptrans.naver.net/j2k_frame.php/korean/ime.nu/jp.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idJPTYE87Q02E20120827

Japan is in no shape to threaten Korea with the economic threats. Japan has a lot of work to do to fix the growing mess with the economy and the nuclear crisis which has all been stuffed under the carpet so that nobody can see it. Yet here is Japan, picking fights with not just Korea, but also China and Russia. How's that for logic?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I have no stake in this argument and any concerns I have are to do with peace between nations and their citizens not ownership of the islands and so I pass this along only as information: There is a story in the Korean Herald today about how Japan’s old textbooks from the late 19th century, written and published by the country’s Culture Ministry show Dokdo/Takeshima as Korean territory. Hard to imagine there is a winnable legal claim on Japan's part but then, I have so little knowlege of the history and so little faith that most court's decisions are based on justice.

http://view.koreaherald.com/kh/view.php?ud=20120828000973&cpv=0

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japanese should feel counted lucky that Korea is not going to take up on the offer to go to ICJ, because it's 99% guranteed Korea will win because the country with the longest period of possession usually wins these types of cases, plus, Korea has proof like this which will embarrass Japan (because they're straight from Japanese government before 1900, themselves).

A University of Osaka professor, Kuboi Norio revealed a Japanese maps in 1840 and 1895 that revealed the island was Korean. A Japanese map in 1901 had the drawing of Japan, but the islands of Ullungdo was unmarked as not Japanese, and the island of Takeshima was totally omitted. The Takeshima island was incorporated as Japanese territory in 1905, right after the Russo-Japanese war which determined who was going to control Korea. This day, Kuboi Norio also revealed two other maps, one a Japanese map from 1895 and an Italian map of 1840 which drew the Dokto island as a Korean island. The Japanese professor stated that the two countries (Korea and Japan) should be cooperating closely with each other, but because of this territorial issue that Japan was hiding, he couldn't just stand by and do nothing so he decided to speak up.

http://kr.news.yahoo.com/service/news/shellview.htm?articleid=2012082901484256447&linkid=20&newssetid=455&from=rank

It's reported that the Japanese professor started getting death threats from Japanese nationalists who were none too happy about this traitorous act.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

AriesKJJ

This is typical of the Korean media where they constantly report "new discovery that Dokdo is Korean" on a monthly basis only to be easily disproved within minutes by Japanese citizens.

In regards to the map.

1) First and foremost, there are over 6,000 minor islands that constitute Japan. 2) The map shows the entire main islands (Honshu, Kyushu, Shikoku, Hokkaido, etc.) along with the entire Korean peninsula as well as part of China. Hence, it's virtually impossible to map every minor islands. 3) The two islands that's focused are Ullungdo island on the right and on the left, the island is called Argonaut island (which does not exist). 4) In regards to #3, what happened was during the early 18th century, many Western map makers sailed around the area where some maps misplaced the true location of Ullungdo where it was placed much closer to the Korean Peninsula. Another western map maker would then place the correct position of Ullungdo but assumed that the initial misplaced island existed so what resulted was two islands of which one did not exist. Unfortunately, Japanese too relying on these to map some their stuff. 5) The current Takeshima is located more South East which does not fall in the red circled area that the article shows.

This type of reporting is nothing new. I'll be we see those more and more.

Chucky

A University of Osaka professor, Kuboi Norio

He's not a University of Osaka professor. He's an ex elementrary/junior high school teacher from Osaka public education.

My guess is that the Korean government wined and dined this individual? Did he falsify his credentials as well? LOL.

Along with Hosaka who is neither a historian nor a law expert (graduated majoring in engineering), both apparently got a good gig when it comes to Korea.

So what happened to Hosaka's claim that Japan won't be able to file the ICJ because it violates the 1965 Treaty? Another ridiculous claim that fails.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

nigelboyAug. 26, 2012 - 11:24AM JST Even if Korea (which I DOUBT sincerely) apologize, the people of Japan can NOW play the game of "not sincere enough" for every lawmaker that questions the apology becomes null and void. In fact, EVERY media in Korea has to address the Emperor as his title (like ALL OTHER NATIONS do EXCEPT KOREA) and not "日王”(Japan's King).

Why? Problem for Korea and China is that the emperor, in whose name the war was fought, remained on the throne.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

sfjp330Aug. 29, 2012 - 09:02AM JST Why? Problem for Korea and China is that the emperor, in whose name the war was fought, remained on the >throne.

The ROC accepted that the Em;peror remain on the throne as did all the other allies. The PRC ddn't evern exist.at the time WWII ended.

Korea wasn't even an ally, in fact it was part of the Japanese Empire and some Koreans were charged as War Criminals.I don't knoe where Korea comes off suddenly pretending to have been an allied nation.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Aries KJJ

I managed to find the source of the original map.

http://archive.wul.waseda.ac.jp/kosho/ru02/ru02_00002/ru02_00002_0001/ru02_00002_0001_p0028.jpg

If you zoom it, you notice the third island south east of the two set of islands.

Which is similar to this.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/recognition.html

As I stated previously, the Argonaut is a misplaced Ullungdo(Utsuryo) Therefore, it's a ghost island that does not exist.

Now notice where Korea Herald placed their red circles.

http://view.koreaherald.com/kh/view.php?ud=20120828000973&cpv=0

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

OssanAmerica Aug. 30, 2012 - 04:00AM JST. The ROC accepted that the Em;peror remain on the throne as did all the other allies. The PRC ddn't evern exist.at the time WWII ended.

If Japan surrendered few months earlier with the unconditional surrender, as proposed by the Allies, the J-goverment could've saved hundreds of thousands of ordinary Japanese citizens. What the JIA and todays J-goverment is saying that monarchy system in Japan is much more important than killing 200,000 - 300,000 additional ordinary Japanese citizens that were not necessary. This tells you clearly that the priorty of J-goverment is not for their people. This principal still applies today.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

sfjp330Aug. 30, 2012 - 07:07AM JST "OssanAmerica Aug. 30, 2012 - 04:00AM JST. The ROC accepted that the Em;peror remain on the throne as did all the other allies. The PRC ddn't evern exist.at the time WWII ended."

If Japan surrendered few months earlier with the unconditional surrender, as proposed by the Allies, the J->goverment could've saved hundreds of thousands of ordinary Japanese citizens.

I agree completely.

What the JIA and todays J-goverment is saying that monarchy system in Japan is much more important than killing >200,000 - 300,000 additional ordinary Japanese citizens that were not necessary. This tells you clearly that the >priorty of J-goverment is not for their people. This principal still applies today.

No you are incorrect, the principle does NOT apply today. Assuming by JIA you mean the Japanese Empire. there is a universe of a difference because until the end of WWII, the Japanese Constitution stated that THE EMPEROR IS THE STATE. This was altered through GHQ influence so that the new (current) Constitution reads that THE EMPEROR IS A SYMBOL OF THE STATE. What the US wanted to ensure was that while the Japanese could still have their Emperor, he would not worshipped as the living embodiment of the nation, as a "god", a condition which dictated much of he Imperial Japanese Army and Navy's power over the government.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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