politics

Noda says he, ministers will not visit Yasukuni while in office

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Is there finally some sanity creeping into J-politics?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Fact is those war criminals are still war criminals, just that they're dead. So move on you Asian governments. It's in the past. A bunch of kids

-1 ( +5 / -7 )

Oh my, he might be a smart one. Or is this just a flash in the pan?

-2 ( +1 / -4 )

Noda is doing the right thing for making this predictable announcement. However, it does not go far enough. He has no guts to tell the 50+ lawmakers not to visit Yasukuni or you will be fired. Some Japanese, while ignoring or denying Japan's war guilt and proven war crimes between 1937 and 1945, are quite happy to accuse the U.S. of committing a war crime by dropping atomic bombs on two Japanese cities and play the victims card. Japan should feel ashamed of the annual peace declarations in those two cities because they failed to include the point of view of Japan as an aggressor in the war. There is a unfortunate pattern of intimidation in Japan, Former Nagasaski Mayor Motoshima was attacked and seriously injured by a Japanese nationalist for speaking the truth about Japan's war guilt and war crimes.

Asian countries that suffered most from Japan's brutal military aggression, such as China, are not prepared to see these important issues swept under the carpet. The continuing refusal by Japanese governments to acknowledge frankly Japan's war guilt and the appalling atrocities committed by Japan's military justifies continued attention being focussed on this disturbing issue.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

wow! i was expecting the opposite. nice Saturday morning surprise.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@sfjp330

He has no guts to tell the 50+ lawmakers not to visit Yasukuni or you will be fired. He can't fire them. They are elected by the people. He can only fire people in his cabinet. PERIOD. Yes, it is good that he is sticking with the good neighbor policy of not pissing everyone off. It is good first step. At least they donYt have THAT to complain about. Now they can just move to other issues like sfjp330 has just done. Why can't you give some a break and a small pat on the back? I notice you love beating that drum in each and every post like a broken record. And so do the CHinese. BUt no peace will ever come from continuing to pound someone's head in the floor.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

At least not visit publicly...

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

"Seoul on Tuesday urged Noda to look squarely at the past"

Yes, Noda should do that, and then he should urge Seoul and Beijing to look to the future.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The Japanese people and nation have never fully accepted responsibility for the unspeakable atrocities that they perpetrated against helpless innocent civilians during the last war. Note the comments in recent years from numerous Japanese leaders including Noda, questioning the substance of accounts of war time atrocities related by war survivors, or even whether the cruelty and brutality ever occurred at all. That is all very disturbing to Japan's neighbours. Would Israel ever forgive Germany if German leaders openly questioned whether the events of the Holocaust ever occurred? Never! The Japanese have always sought to whitewash or excuse their acts by describing their brutality as "liberating" Asians from their colonial masters.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"Seoul on Tuesday urged Noda to look squarely at the past"

Yes, Noda should do that, and then he should urge Seoul and Beijing to look to the future.

Well said Serrano san.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Serrano I completely agree with you. The Chinese and the Koreans need to look to the future instead of the past. What is done is done! The Japanese need to fully accept their past and like sfjp330 says stop white-washing history. Politicians and educators alike. But sfjp you are a bit of the problem. You want to continuously attack Japan. You may be right, but your style is what the problem is as well.

But how about this: Instead of China and the two Koreas continually rubbing Japan's face in it. How about backing off? Let it go for a while. Stop complaining and see what happens. When Japanese people see China complaining about this and that they get turned off and say "Here we go again. China wants to complain" and NATURALLY get defensive and think they don't owe anyone anything. This is a pride based culture. See they have no desire to change their history books or really admit to the past when people keep rubbing their faces in it. Once, the Chinese calm down and stop pointing it out, news agency will focus on Japan's ill deeds of the past. But you don't give them time to. They have have to report on the protests by the Chinese all the time and what the Chinese government has said badly about Japan, its conduct and its leaders. Japan will teach history when people stop rubbing its face in dirt.

3 ( +4 / -3 )

But Noda wrote in 2005 to the popular premier that post-WWII treaties and Japanese laws have restored the honor of those who were judged as “Class A” war criminals, a stance he maintained when asked about it last month.

Now THAT was stupid! What a bonehead! But he did criticize Koizumi for going to Yasukuni and has held true to his word by not visiting there. That shows that is view of politics is not as provincial as Koizumi's was. No summit with either South Korea or China because his views on politics were pedestrian in that he thought it better to appeal to his right wing supports instead of his Asian neighbors. That was the pinnacle of stupidity and waste of a chance to make peace and get past the past. How can peace have a chance when you continue to do something that makes your neighbors angry. Those who visit are provincial and not thinking about the BIG PICTURE. Noda did the same thing in 2005 by saying what he said and repeating it last month. I jsut hope he wont say any other stupid things to get people all riled up.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Good for him-at this time Noda has to hit a stride to positively affect the betterment of Japan ! To the devil with those bullies in China!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

A very good start with a great appreciated promise to the neighbors China and Korea .

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Good man.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Japan, like all nations strives for success (at least we claim to) we ought to worship winners, not the vanquished like those who doomed us into our 6th decade under American rule. It's true that Japan is a nation that love to honor and glorify our winners, such as the Nadesico Japan, and ignore the defeated altogether like the Men's National Soccer Team.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Worship of the vanquished does not only inflicts despair and breeds insecurity in our generation.

It's telling our kids that mediocracy in team work is OK. Sure, it's encouraged to tell our kids that we love them no matter the outcome as long as they do their best, but the appraisal of their failed ventures is ludicrous.

Groups that compete with others are not social clubs to make friends. Most of the time when we participate in teamwork for money or prize, we do so by co-operating with strangers we loathe or have straits difficult to work with. The same goes for those conscripts in WWII who were forced to leave their loved ones in droves and served under career officers who saw them no more than disposable human scum. Having lost the war, most survivors got nothing more than bitter memories and beriberi, all the while the inglorious dead were left to rot under shallow graves or taken as trophies back home for the enemy. If I was one of them, I wouldn't want to be worshipped as part of the losing side, neither would the Class-A war criminals who started the war, so would anyone. These individuals only want the praise of their close loved ones and not the attention of anyone else.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The Japanese people and nation have never fully accepted responsibility for the unspeakable atrocities that they perpetrated against helpless innocent civilians during the last war.

The same could be said about Britain during the building of its Empire (I'm British), but no one goes on about that. Japan has acknowledged its role in the war several times. We all realize Japan is a very different country today. It's time to move on and look to the future.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Serrano: Good point, but you leave out one major nation that also needs to look to the future; Japan. You also forgot that without looking back to see where you have come from and what you've done, you'll just walk in a circle -- the past is the past, granted, but you have to acknowledge it in order to make PROGRESS. That goes for all nations, and all people.

Anyway, good on Noda for promising this. I hope he sticks to it despite the inevitable black trucks and old codgers like Ishihara who will claim Noda's not Japanese. What I especially like about this is that Noda has declared flat out in the past he supports going to Yasukuni, but it seems he is willing to not do so in an official capacity in order to avoid offending neighbours, while still maintaining his personal beliefs (separately). THAT is the sign of a good politician. Can he keep it up?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

I am liking Noda more and more. Even putting aside his personal views and beliefs for the good of the country. Thats a pretty big thing to do. It SHOULD be the case always, but as history shows it usually isnt.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

imap2223

Japan has had 6+ decades to come to grips with its past, clearly it shud have been long ago honestly delt with, but it hasnt, thats 150% Japans fault, no one elses.

Japans continued denile just leaves it open to scorn, the FACT that the new PM thinks Japans war criminals shud be honoured, just aint going to help, it just begars believe & shows Japan isnt going to be re-bounding any time soon I am afraid

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I think China just wants a little respect from Japan and Noda gave that to them. That's not a bad thing for both sides.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It doesn't matter whether other politicians visit Yasukuni. As long as Noda and his ministers stay away China and Korea will purposely keep silent.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Well, he is off to a good start. Lets see if his cabinet sticks to that. I am not betting on it.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

imap2223: "but might be better off trying to look forward instead of backwards. All countries need to move on. Japan included"

I agree with you 100%, but as I said earlier part of moving forward is acknowledging and dealing with the past proactively, not denying it. All three of the aforementioned countries have their baises on the topic, but Japan seems more comfortable simply denying it happened in the first place, and people that support that often use the excuse that we need to 'move forward, not look back'. Don't LIVE in the past, to be sure, but not to acknowledge it, and worse yet to deny it, will only ensure that the future IS the past, repeated.

Noda is in part acknowledging the gravity of a visit to the shrine, how it makes others feel about the past if a PM visits, and he is willing to take steps to move forward in the manner I have spoken, to an extent. That's a positive step in relations, albeit just the first one.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The Chinese government needs to back off. It has brutalized it's own people severely. But I agree with smithinjapan. Japan must look at the past instead of ignoring it.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@smithinjapan

Yes, part of moving forward is acknowledging the past and dealing with it proactively, not denying it. And I fully support that idea. I really wish it would happen. Yes, Japan seems more comfortable simply denying things. But pushing their faces in the dirt is not going to help them do the right thing. I wish their was some way to get them to really look at the past and acknowledge it. But as long as other countries go around screaming bloody murder I fear that their cries can only land on deaf ears. That is the way it has been and will always be. We have to try a different approach. Once again I agree with you 1oo% though on every point.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Kersey23: You are right about the abuse issue. Chinese leaders have been horrific to their own people. I bet they never, ever, ever will acknowledge that.

WOW! Every year it is the same problem. Japan ignores it's past. China practically throws feces. I don't get something though. Hasn't Japan really helped China to get back on her feet? Does the Chinese government ever tell its people about that? I think China is just using this issue. Yeah, Japan is dead wrong in not admitting its past and needs to try to do what the Germans have done, but then again doesn't Italy, France, U.S.A, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, etc. Aren't we just ganging up on one country here? That what it seems like to me.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

And of course, who could forget the British? Sorry, mates.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Chinese government is watching and listening closely at anyone whoever has the mentality to show sympathy over those A-class war criminals! China is the biggest obbressor of Japanese empire aggressions, she has all the rights to monitor the political situation in Japanese political arena! That wont change no matter how many years has gone!The one that should back off is America, she has done nothing when Nanjiang was under seige and she backing those war time perpetrators to be key members in post war Japanese government!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Mr Noda said neither he nor his members wil vist that Ysaujkuni shrine is a good start. But that doesnt mean he has sincerely apologised for Japan's wartime atrocities in WW2! He was just refrained to answer China's question instead of a confession!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@ just-a-guy: stop living in the past - "Japanese empire aggressions"? Nice soundbite but there's no reality to it in today's world. Here's a question for you: Look at Asia today and tell me, Which country is aggressively seeking to wrest land from multiple countries?

Time for people to look forwards, not backwards.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

So, for me, China is Just-a-hypocrite. Just-a-guy.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

And you wonder why Japan and The USA are distrustfull of your buildup.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It's time to tell the Chinese not to visit Chairman Mao's Mausoleum . Because of this madman and pedophile, close to 80 million Chinese people died. The so called Japan’s “Class A” war criminals are not war criminals at all. They were all pardoned by the Japanese government back in 1953. Their honor must be respected.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Well, I don't feel the need to honor them, but as CRAZY JOE has said don't visit Mao" Mausoleum either. Now there is a war criminal. I think it was like more than 90 million dead Chinese. I might be wrong. But the number was huge. In china you can't say anything against the government. Many of my Chinese friends have told me so. Here in Japan, we have that freedom. And in the USA. How can anyone argue the Chinese side when the media are controlled solely by the government? Talk about crooks.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

CrazyJoe

The so called Japan’s “Class A” war criminals are not war criminals at all. They were all pardoned by the Japanese government back in 1953. Their honor must be respected

Joke of the day! So Japan pardoned its war criminals hey, so l guess that may be part of the issue. Japan not accepting its wrongdoings. As for their honor being respected.... HMMM better not write what lm thinking about that or l wont be allowed to post for a while.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Under Japanese law, so called war criminals are not considered war criminals. That's a fact. This is no joke.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

CrazyJoe

Under Japanese law, so called war criminals are not considered war criminals. That's a fact. This is no joke.

It may be a fact but it is also a joke and maybe its crap like that, that is causing China and other Asian nations that experienced Japan's friendliness to act the way they do. Maybe they like most sane people believe that just because the Japanese dont view them as war criminals doesnt mean they arnt.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Spidaipig24

You are entitled to your own opinion. Japan is a democracy unlike China.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Paying homage to war criminals is reckless, but so is the Homage given to Mao, one of the greatest Mass Murders of All time.

Could the A class war criminals have different shrine fromYasukuni. Don't know but seperation or removal of the War criminals would be a good thing.

As to Mao, he continues to be immortalised by the China, despit killing 10s of millions, some by idiotic policies (the great leap backwards) and some by pure evil (Cultural revolution, direct support for the khmer rouge). So Japan needs to make changes as to Hounoring War Criminals, But so does China

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Since the enshrinements, there have been calls from some groups of people to remove the war criminals from Yasukuni Shrine. Shrine officials have stated that unlike traditional Shinto shrines, all enshrined kami are immediately combined and inseparable, and therefore impossible to "remove". There has been no move to separate the enshrinements. (Wikipedia)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

CrazyJoe

You are entitled to your own opinion. Japan is a democracy unlike China

See thats the funny thing it is not just China that gets bent out of shape over the Japanese paying homage to convicted war criminals. So to merely blame the Chinese in this situation is laughable. I dont blame the Chinese at all for getting upset for the fact that the Japanese actually pardoned and even pray for these scum. They where found guilty for their crimes they received their punishment if only the Japanese had left it at that then there would be no issue but to glorify them is a despicable act from a country that obviously didnt learn from the outcome of the war. And for the PM to announce he wont visit the shrine is a step in the right direction

1 ( +2 / -1 )

CrazyJoe,

And for the record how many Japanese did Mao kill? Yes he killed millions of Chinese, he was the Chinese leader though (not that makes it ok). How many Chinese did the Japanese kill? There is a big difference there

2 ( +3 / -1 )

****CrazyJoe,

And for the record how many Japanese did Mao kill? Yes he killed millions of Chinese, he was the Chinese leader though (not that makes it ok). How many Chinese did the Japanese kill? There is a big difference there

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE, PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE. further he was responsible(full and part) for the deaths of millions in Cambodia, India and Korea.

Think of Stalin, he killed millions, many were his own countrymen, but does that make any difference?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The seven Class A war criminals were hanged on Dec. 23, 1948. Their bodies were transported immediately to Yokohama for cremation and the ashes were all dumpted into Tokyo Bay by the US Military.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Readers, please stay on topic. Mao and Stalin are not relevant to this discussion.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Maybe the next one will do. How long a Japanese PM remains in his chair normally? Not very long. They come and go, all of them disposable.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Chinese and the Koreans seem to have a lot to say about Yasukuni because they suffered. But that doesn't explain why ASEAN states, Crown Commonwealth and the US that suffered so much under the war don't seem to care at all about the shrine visits. Then again, trying to compare the psyche of our continental cousins to the people that reside in later three entities would amount to no more than an insult. Why? because they are multicultural countries that commit to tolerating weird customs of various ethnic groups on a daily basis, tackling real contemporary issues instead of badgering esoteric nostalgia of others.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The PM is trying to improve relations, do not expect it to do any good but one never knows. The ball is in the Chinese court.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Korea used to a dump before the Japanese annexed it. Japan also babied them too much I guess. The nineteenth-century English traveller, writer, and a natural historian, Isabella Lucy Bird Bishop called Seoul the dirtiest city in the world.

Japan actually helped Korea get modernized. Just go here → http://mamorenihon.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/korea-and-her-neighbors-by-isabella-lucy-bird-bishop/

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Noda have brain that real fact. He can build relation with Asian countries. But Yasukuni problem this is result of USA politics in Japan and Asian countries. USA have been create conflict situation in 02.09.1945 between Japan and Asian countries by use Yasukuni and make business with some war criminal. Some members of 731 unit have been remorse and pray about their victims that is very important fact for solve some historic problems.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Folks,

Its clear to most both mao & the J-war criminals were a nasty lot, neither shud be honoured in any way shape or form.

The difference is that in China if you rail against mao you & yr family cud face severe & REAL repercussions to life & limb, Chinese one day will have a chance to opening judge mao but they cant now for the most part.

Japan a supposedly free, democratic country, well it simply has no excuse what so ever for not dealing with its own history, Japan is simply continuing to reap what she sows. It always freaks me out how many Japanese can see hitler & his lot for what they were, but cant acknowledge what their own country did during those times, truly truly sad & unnecessary, but Japan continues to inflict pain on itself & its people with no end in sight

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The fundamental problem of Japanese glorifying their wartime artrociies was the religion of 'Shindo'! Shindo was a domestic religion in Japan but they are preaching war and they honouring aggresions over neighbouring countries!This religion is willfully against humanities and believes shear brute force of destructions is justified for Japan. Those fascist Japanese military leaders and their soldiers,sailors were fanatic 'Shindo' workshippers! The pre-war and wartime Japanese regimes running coups and assassinations to overthrown any moderate political figures and collaborated with those Shindo religious leaders to brainwash japanese people to wage war against their neighbours! Without the Shindo's propagandas,the Japanese society couldnt being die-hard fascisms,Shindo has got to be blamed for their part of war provoking and against humanities! So if Japan wants to be trusted by neighbouring countries especially from China, only refraining from Yasukuni shrine wasnt enough, the Shindo religion should be banned and criminalrized!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Just a guy, good to see that you are not to be taken remotely seriously. What a " helpful" comment.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Just-a-guy, my understanding is that Shinto was pretty much hijacked by the militarists who wanted to rid Japan of foreign influence (primarily Buddhism) in their drive to transform Japan into a modern nation-state rather than a collection of various Han subservient and not always loyal to, The Tokugawa shogunate. Prior to the Meiji Restoration, Japanese viewed themselves as belonging to their Han, (feudal domain) rather than the "nation" of Japan. The purpose of "state Shinto" (a Meiji era creation)was to create one nation of Japan, with the Emperor as it's spiritual center. They saw this as a necessary means for survival because only a strong nation would be able to resist the advances of the western imperialist powers. Simply put, they were not going to be 19th century China, they were going to be 19th century Great Britain. State Shinto was a tool to unify the nation, not the cause of Japanese imperialism. Imperialism already existed, Japan was trying to jump into the game.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

just-a-guy, ok we can first ban Shinto, that is against our constitution and the American one as well. Would become just like the Chinese, am not one myself but believe they have the right to worship in their own way. What would be banned next? Christians just like in China. The PM is doing the right thing, he has my support.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well said crazy joe.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I say go to the shrine if you want to, as it does no harm to anyone. If you say a silent pryer, then add, and...please leave out those 7 bad guys.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Although I support the decision not to go to Yasukuni, it is not a long-term solution. Japan still needs to find a way to honor and remember its dead.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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