politics

Noda says protests will hurt China's economy

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I am glad Noda is speaking so clearly and strongly and with such reason. We could use more world leaders of his quality.

-2 ( +13 / -16 )

Noda said violent protests in China over the two countries’ ongoing territorial dispute will weaken China’s economy and spook foreign investors

It will weaken Japan's economy 3-4 times more that it will to China as China is the #1 trade country to Japan while Japan is #4 to China. The vacancy from the collapse of Japanese companies in China will be quickly filled with European and Korean. And due to unavailable cheap Chinese goods will raise the consumer prices by 30% easily.

sex slaves for Japanese soldiers during World War Two. Asked whether he would consider providing South Korea new compensation for the practice, Noda said “the matter is closed,”

The matter may be closed to J-politicians but not to comfort women of Korea, China, others, and their mother countries. The debt has to be paid sooner or later before Japan can walk with Korean and Chinese as friendly neighbors.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

China is big uneducated and uncivilized.

When it falls it will fall further than anyone can believe.

Imagine the Cutural Revolution, but times 10.

I for one have my popcorn ready.

-6 ( +10 / -16 )

It seems Noda's going to win the election and that's his only goal. He don't care all other matters.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda said violent protests in China over the two countries’ ongoing territorial dispute will weaken China’s economy and spook foreign investors, the Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday.

So who said this? Prime Minister Noda or The WallStreet Journal? It's a little misleading....

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I apologize to all readers for being an idiot.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yosun.... you are wrong about that.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

To PM Noda.... China already has what it wanted..... China has, sitting all over its east coast, factories from all the major manufacturers around the world. If this were 10 years ago... China may have listened... because then, yes, they still needed foreign investment but now they have it and the technology that came with it. Japan basically has Zero to bargain with and no power behind any punch they could throw. If Japan were to try to pull their factories from China.... the Chinese would just laugh and say.... not gonna happen. Whereas the only thing the Chinese are making in Japan are Dumplings.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Based on his performance over the past year, Noda seems to have little idea what to do with the Japanese economy so any comments he makes about other economies should be taken with a large dose of salt.

If it is so that Japan is far too entangled with other economies to make its own decisions, then perhaps Noda should do something about that instead of whining and holding his breath waiting for others to act.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Noda is generally very careful with his remarks. Hope he knows what he is doing this time.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Japan can bring these jobs home from China. Through the WTO punish China for using our intelligent property. Jobs within Japan will bring us out of the recession. Large profits for Japanese firms does not mean prosperity.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Most foreign companies have already realized that producing in China and transferring their technologies there is not doing them any good. The US have realized that a while ago, so did the Europeans. It is about time Japan considers other options in South East Asia. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/business/global/trade-tensions-with-china-heating-up-again.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www Indeed many of those foreign businesses belong to countries that do have a history with China one way or another. They realize now that - note that the French did four years ago when they mentioned Tibet - international laws, foundation for reciprocal business have no meaning for the Chinese. Interesting read to gain some perspective about what the neighbors are thinking: http://opinion.inquirer.net/37384/us-expert-sees-fall-of-china

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The production of the Japanese company based in china are not ment for consumption in China but Japan. Closing those factorys or companys will not affect China but Japan. Yes you will have some unemployment for a while, but those people will find easily a new job in some foreign companys which will take the place of the Japanese one.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

highhope

The debt has to be paid sooner or later

It was paid as were you(.50).

0 ( +1 / -1 )

YuriOtani Sep. 24, 2012 - 09:44AM JST

You're wrong on this. They will simply take their production to another low-wage, low-regulation, low-tax nation. Japan will continue to lose manufacturing until it reforms its tax, labor, and regulatory regimes or until the rest of the world catches up by becoming a high-tax welfare state like Japan.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Japan can bring these jobs home from China. Through the WTO punish China for using our intelligent property. Jobs within Japan will bring us out of the recession. Large profits for Japanese firms does not mean prosperity.

Japan is in trouble when the majority of Japanese think like this. Unfortunately the majority does think like this. It's really no wonder why Japan has been in trouble economically. Japan thinks it's still important and relevant in Asia. It's not.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

Both side's China and Japan economy will be hurt. But Japan economy wiil be weaken. Why? In any business. Good Credit is the basic fundamental of Business Ethic. China rightful protest is more credible than Japan. Japan by using the farce buying the Island from a so call private Japanese citizen show Japan have lost her own National Credibility Ethic..

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The Chinese government seems not to regard Japan the same importance as Japan regards itself. Japan is not relevant to China with its sturdy growth and prosperity. If it were in China's interests to placate Japan then it would;instead its citizens are boycotting Japanese goods,tourism and intergovernmental relations are being put on hold by China.

Japan has never been a global player as its elite are far too insular to constructively promote true international relations.

Now, Japan is paying the price for that insularity

2 ( +2 / -0 )

China is still a third world country and divestment of any industry will show how it is a third world country.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

China may still be a third world country, but it's a country that's on a big push, with a huge market. Japan missing from China will mean a big fat zero for China, as other capitalist countries are eager to fill the shoes to make any kind of short term profits as any way they can. That is the weakness of capitalism. Once companies, individuals, and companies get used to earning easy money, politics does little to ween them away. Chinese have figured this out long time ago, and they're using the capitalism's weakness to their advantage brilliantly. I'm not saying this wont hurt China, but what I'm saying is Japan is overestimating their power and relevance. Japan is an insular, dying power, it is no longer a power on top of Asia hierarchy - and this is what makes the Japanese angry. They can continue to look down on rest of Asia from top, but that's not going to give them bigger respect, only contempt.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

I am sure, the average Joe in both China & Japan wouldn't give a damn about a few rocks in the ocean if it meant losing a long term economic and geographic partner. Whoever is spin-doctoring this drama is doing a good job. It would be a horrible shame to lose focus of repairing the damage from the tsunami / earthquake and focus on some stupid military action. China & Japan are friends and have worked for decades to repair the past. This is horribly sad...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It seems Japan will be starting an economic war with China. Is Japan ready to give up Chinese market? It will hurt Japan too.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Let's cut off the economic ties completely and we will figure out who will be crying like babies.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

The Puppet is wrong.Japan loses .

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Resurfaced: most of politician (Noda is one of them)are worse than all other kinds of people, you'll know it sooner or later.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan exports actually fallen even way before the protest happens.

I believe the only way to find out is not looking through comments at Japan Today or other news site but wait for the time to come.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Truth is Japanese business are hurting. China is cutting supply sale of rare earth which is essential for manufacturing goods. Japanese co-operation are struggling to source elsewhere. China control 90% of rare earth supply. China has been stock piling many strategic materials such as copper, steel, aluminum too. Japanese goods imported to China are screwed by customs.

Manufacturer concern is not about political agenda. Their concern is reliability of supply chain, productivity and demand from domestic market. Combining all south east Asian nations plus Bangladesh and Sri Lanka still do not match China output. If there is less output of goods, there will be less competitive for selling in the market.

It is unrealistic for assuming, all business fly away from China. May be Japanese business! Europe and Korean business are happy about expanding their market share. At the moment, China is the strongest consumer market. China is still the huge factory of the world.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Stupid fool, protests in China will hurt Japan's economy exponentially more than China. The Chinese can buy American cars, German and French technologies, Korean electronics or their own domestic products.

There is zero, nothing, nada that Japan has that China cannot purchase from anyone else.

And those Chinese workers who work for Japanese company can switch to American or Korean companies. Because we along with the koreans and germans will probably take over the slacks.

So don't worry about China. Worry about yourself. You can move to Thailand, with their poor infrastructure and flooding. Or the Philippines, anyone that's been to Manila during late spring and early summer can tell you its not a place for built for business or manufacturing. Indonesia has terrorism, so does India who hates foreign investments.

So where can you go? Japan? LOL, if that's the case, they never had to leave. With the yen and your high salary, no company can survive in Japan as the base for export manufacturing. And you don't have enough of a population to sustain your own because you lack natural resources to survive on your own.

So stop worrying about China, and worry about yourself.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Highhope and others...stats? Blowing your tutes without any backup stats make you appear as just wanting to be published.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Hi NODA, Be cool both and think seriously

1 ( +1 / -0 )

politician can make issue also

0 ( +0 / -0 )

highhopes: It will weaken Japan's economy 3-4 times more that it will to China as China is the #1 trade country to Japan while Japan is #4 to China. The vacancy from the collapse of Japanese companies in China will be quickly filled with European and Korean. And due to unavailable cheap Chinese goods will raise the consumer prices by 30% easily.

I don't think it's that cut and dry. China is still a developing country. If they set a precedent of harassing Japanese companies to the point of where they have to leave, I'm not sure why you think other countries would be so eager to jump in and fill the void. My bet is that countries would be more cautious in dealing with China, not the opposite. China is mapping out a policy on how they deal with disputes. The Japanese situation might not affect American or European countries specifically, but right now they have to be asking themselves what could happen if they have a future dispute with China. How would you feel if you were a business owner?

It's also said that China needs at least 8% growth in order to avoid civil unrest. It's a fine line. Losing Japan and shutting down factories will, without doubt, result in a lot of angry workers burning down police stations. China is making a big gamble with their future in a lot of ways.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I have had a brief read through the Wikipedia article about these islands. The total area of them, including rocky outcrops, is less that 5 sq.km. But just think how immensely vast compared with the area of China!

Unless there are known vast reserves of oil below the surrounding seabed, it difficult to see how such an insignificant group of tiny islands - islets in fact - could cause such concern in China. Those people in China who are demonstrating so extravagantly obviously haven't a clue what they are demonstrating about - but this is exactly the sort of nonsense situation we would expect the Chinese to get up to, isn't it. With pompous politicians pontificating at podiums on their touchy feet.

I read the Chinese want to surround the islands with about 4 to 500 small fishing boats. What a funny sort of childish demonstration! What a waste of fuel! I suppose there are a few fish in the vicinity of the islands. Just hope the weather forecasters get it wrong and one hell of a gale blows up!

As a naturalised Brit in South Africa I am immensely impressed with the Chinese over this mini-minor issue! I would really have thought that there were some more rather more important issues to deal with - just marginally more important, you appreciate! (One of them being the decimation of African rhinos for their horns, the crushed horn being regarded as a magic potion in Asiatic countries. It's nothing of the sort, of course. And when there's no more rhinos, it will be lions bones).

Well, I suppose we will eventually hear the outcome of negotiations between Japan and China.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I don't think it's that cut and dry. China is still a developing country. If they set a precedent of harassing Japanese companies to the point of where they have to leave, I'm not sure why you think other countries would be so eager to jump in and fill the void. My bet is that countries would be more cautious in dealing with China, not the opposite. China is mapping out a policy on how they deal with disputes. The Japanese situation might not affect American or European countries specifically, but right now they have to be asking themselves what could happen if they have a future dispute with China. How would you feel if you were a business owner?

It's also said that China needs at least 8% growth in order to avoid civil unrest. It's a fine line. Losing Japan and shutting down factories will, without doubt, result in a lot of angry workers burning down police stations. China is making a big gamble with their future in a lot of ways.

May I ask who said China need at least 8% growth to avoid civil unrest? What makes you think workers will burn down police stations? What makes you think others would think like you?

I have not heard much related comments from other developed countries and talking about risk, do they have such dispute with China? When was the last time such riots happened? What are the alternatives and is it worth for abandoning China's huge growing market based on such reasons? The US just asked both sides to settle this peacefully, nothing more, nothing less.

Btw during the anti-Japanese demonstrations in 2005, similar thing happened and China is in fact still doing well becoming 2nd largest economy, putting man in space and so forth after that issue. May I ask again what makes you believe other companies would change their plans on the current issue especially with the current economic outlook?

If you're saying China is making a big gamble then Japan would be gambling for their lives if I were to look at your perspective.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The PM Noda's comments unveiled his serious lack of both skill in politics & economics to survive the next election.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Probably not a newsflash, but it won't help Japan's economy either, particularly given how much Japan depends on China for outsourcing.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

China as experienced three straight months of decrease in FDI despite the fact that Japan has been increasing FDI to China at that time. So yeah. With these recent events, any fool that thinks there are somebody to "pick up the slack" really needs to get a clue.

Story about Matsushita (Panasonic) and Deng Xiaoping.

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/china/AJ201209180055

......"They say you are a god of management," Deng told Konosuke Matsushita (1894-1989), the company founder. "Could you help with China's modernization?"

Matsushita Electric made a first foray into China at a time when its competitors remained hesitant. It opened a TV cathode-ray tube plant there in autumn 1989, although foreign business activity still had not recovered from a low following the bloody Tiananmen Square crackdown of June 1989.

In May 2008, Chinese President Hu Jintao visited Matsushita Electric's head office in Kadoma, Osaka Prefecture. Hu expressed gratitude for the company's "major contribution to the building of China's modernization," knowledgeable sources said......

This is what happens when you whitewash history especially in regards to post war contribution of Japan.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

at the risk of disrespecting and making myself popular with people in charge everywhere, something i have always tried for since they've always been so good to me. I thought kindergarten-style fingerpointing contests were a belgian thing. Our five governments are really good at it. But it seems like it's a global thing. Only outthere it's different countries doing the same. Inhere they don't even need a foreign nation for that. 'it's not my fault, it's yours' ... deniability of responsibility more important than solutions. No one's getting anywhere like that

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"The vacancy from the collapse of Japanese companies in China will be quickly filled with European and Korean."

Not likely. the shine on Chinese business opportunities has lost its sheen considerably over the past decade as Western companies come to realize that China still is, by most measures, a very, very difficult marketplace in which to operate fairly. Unfair competition, scarcely concealed market protectionism, and rampant data and technology theft, not to mention the double-standards for product safety and quality that inflate the cost of doing business in China past most reasonable expectations for profitability. Tack onto this a laundry list of human rights abuses across the Chinese labor landscape, and -- and here's the inevitable true of China's brief but dramatic flash of economic growth -- a gradually more expensive labor force, and you've got a very unattractive business environment, particularly now that consumers are being more discriminating in where -- and more importantly, how their products are being made.

Any foreign investment in the form of European or Korean interests will represent but a fraction of what Japanese investments provide China per quarter. Of the top ten nations investing directly in China, Japan is 3rd on the list, behind Asian neighbors Singapore and Taiwan.

Britain, France, and Luxemburg (who'd have thought?) are the only European nations with major investments in China, and South Korea sits at sixth on the list, not because it's being muscled out by the others, but because this is how much it is financially capable of investing in China at this time.

Japan suddenly leaving the playing field doesn't magically translate to a sudden windfall of investment funds with which South Korea can invest with renewed vigor.

In short, Japan's and China's economies are so critically intertwined at this stage that anything along the lines of what the Chinese government has allowed -- scratch that, encouraged -- to happen to Japanese properties in China in a ridiculously transparent display of naked greed is tantamount to economic suicide.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

neobios: May I ask who said China need at least 8% growth to avoid civil unrest? What makes you think workers will burn down police stations? What makes you think others would think like you?

You haven't read any of the hundreds/thousands of articles on this issue that have come out over the last 10 years or so talking about the 8% number? You haven't heard about the standard practice of burning down the local police office when the Chinese protest? Did you read the article and the concerns the Chinese government have in regards to losing control of their people?

Btw during the anti-Japanese demonstrations in 2005, similar thing happened and China is in fact still doing well becoming 2nd largest economy, putting man in space and so forth after that issue. May I ask again what makes you believe other companies would change their plans on the current issue especially with the current economic outlook?

If things continue to worsen instead of improving, and if Japanese companies are eventually unable to open their plants in China, and if the Chinese government does nothing to protect the Japanese, then other foreign companies will see the precedent being set. Wouldn't you, if you were a business owner, take something like that into consideration when deciding on where to build your new plant? That wouldn't cross your mind at all?

If you're saying China is making a big gamble then Japan would be gambling for their lives if I were to look at your perspective.

Both lose because of this silly situation, but technically speaking, the Chinese are gambling for their lives. The Japanese government officials won't get killed by the Japanese, but the Chinese officials will. China wants to allow protest against Japan to placate their people, but they know that if the people learn to use protest as a means to an end eventually the Chinese government will be the target. So they have to allow just enough protest to distract their people from the problems in their own government, but they don't want them using it in any other way. Tough line to walk.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

SuperLib, I apologize if I have said something that makes you feel so uncomfortable.

I believe it's the best to wait and see whether such things would come as there's absolutely no end to such arguments until we see the actual result, but I believe we all hope both sides would overcome such issue in peaceful manner.

In the end, it's always the innocent people who suffer if you know what I mean.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The news was spread like fire to the world suggesting China is in political instibility. We are not moving in to China for investment any longer and we can go somewhere else. .No thanks, China.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Message to the Chinese leaders - stop behaving like children!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"I don't think it's that cut and dry. China is still a developing country. If they set a precedent of harassing Japanese companies to the point of where they have to leave, I'm not sure why you think other countries would be so eager to jump in and fill the void. My bet is that countries would be more cautious in dealing with China, not the opposite. China is mapping out a policy on how they deal with disputes. The Japanese situation might not affect American or European countries specifically, but right now they have to be asking themselves what could happen if they have a future dispute with China. How would you feel if you were a business owner?"

Interestingly, "other countries" you cited seem too excited to see the absence of J companies as cars sales in China jumped +10~> +20% these days including the US, German, SK and...even French ( not so popular brands ) whereas the J brands suffered sharp falls. Clear enough, J brands will not quit & the top manager of Toyota took the first flight rushing to China for meetings.. The only chance when these profit oriented multinationals make up their mind to quit is when there is no market anymore.. You are right if you implied low end gadget manufacturing ( many had moved to Vietnam since a few years..in sum, implanting in a country would not only be granting a precious favor to so and so country..it is for the domestic market & getting round the tariff levied on imported goods.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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