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Noda's election sparks wariness in China

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"Chinese proverb: if you can defeat your enemy, ally yourself to him"... Now it's time to compromise some things in order to build a progressive cooperation... Japan is lame and needs more than ever before the support from the Chinese neighbor...

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"....wariness in China?" If any country in the world is at ease it's China (at present) !

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Noda definitely has his work cut out for him!!

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Wow, it's really clear China is trying to keep anti-Japan feeling riding high. If it subsides, what will happen? Oh yes, the restless Chinese might once again start to focus on what's wrong and corrupt in their own country. Tiananmen Part 2, anyone? South Korea is similar, investing so much of it's energy into trying to outpace their more affluent neighbour. That's another country where Japan hatred is almost a religion. And Japan keeps the flames burning by whitewashing it's past. It'll be interesting to see what will happen later on in the century when China becomes a developed country.

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Noda's main focus of the Japan-China tie is their economic bond and their interest in Asia-Pacific stability. Sustaining high-level talks between these two countries would permit direct dialogue on the shrine issues and face-to-face critiques, and maintaining effective communication. The discussions among non-governmental sectors should be promoted further. There are numerous opportunities for productive relationships between the two countries and those opportunities should not be lost. In fact, by promoting such dialogues and cooperation, confidence between the two countries could be enhanced.

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nationalistic Global Times?!

It is controlled by the Chinese Communist Party.

Yasukuni visits by postwar politicians have often enraged Japan’s neighbors ??

Yasukuni visits by postwar politicians have often enraged China and Korea.

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Gosh why can't the just get along and forget about the war, it was so long ago..........

Because a war is not like an argument between a couple of people, when countries go to war millions of people's lives are impacted and it leaves a deep racial memory in the affected people. The amount of hate and anger generated by war and the atrocities of war linger strong into generations far past the actual act. In the overall scheme of things this is not a bad thing, an offending country should have to deal with its misdeeds for a long time, helps to prevent such undertakings from being perpetuated again.

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Sandra CaraanAug. 31, 2011 - 08:09AM JST. Gosh why can't the just get along and forget about the war, it was so long ago. There is new times and new problem to take care of now.

They will not forget. In the late 30's in Nanking, many Japanese soldiers went beyond rape to disembowel women, slice off their breasts, nail them alive to walls. Fathers were forced to rape their daughters, and sons their mothers, as other family members watched. Not only did live burials, castration, the carving of organs and the roasting of people become routine, but more diabolical tortures were practiced, such as hanging people by their tongues on iron hooks or burying people to their waists and watching them torn apart by German shepherds. So sickening was the spectacle that even Nazis in the city were horrified.

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A typical Chinese welcoming wagon filled with threats and reminders of their claims to the new prime minister of Japan. An annoying neighbor indeed.

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I am not going to take responsibility for my ancestors. China and Korea have some real gems in their past as well. No matter what Japan does China is not going to like us. It is the their advantage to focus the Chinese proles attention outside of China.

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YuriOtani

I am not going to take responsibility for my ancestors.

YuriOtani, this one statement perfectly states why these countries have issues with Japan. The fact that you will not take responsibility for your countries past deeds.The "Oh we didnt do them so its not our problem" sums it up perfectly.

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@oginomi I think you will find that China doesn't make a big religious celebration over NAZI era leaders. In Germany and Austria such activities face a prison sentence. China is our neighbour and is a developed country of one billion people. It has a stable government and in 10 years time will be the number one country. Poking sticks at a sleeping dragon is not wise for a country crippled by the nuclear accident and holding debt at twice the GDP. And America won't help, they ran away from Georgia, lost the Vietnam and Korean wars in this region, defeated in Iraq and getting wasted in Afghanistan. The only hope for Japan is to bury these Ishihara-dinosaurs and their offspring like Maehara and be nice to our important neighbours.

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Sandra CaraanAug. 31, 2011 - 08:09AM JST. Gosh why can't the just get along and forget about the war, it was so long ago. There is new times and new problem to take care of now.

We were ready to forgive and forget and move on... in the 1980s, Japanese TV shows, cartoons, dramas, filled the airwave, and Chinese people practically worshipped Japanese culture. I even remember there were stamps (with a Japanese girl and Chinese girl planting a friendship tree) commemorating the diplomatic relationship between the countries.

However, this sentiment changed when we realized most Japanese do not know the horror they inflicted on other Asian countries and are very defensive if they are presented with evidence of Japanese military aggression. Indeed, most Japanese still see themselves as THE victim.

It's nice they have expressed remorse. However, what is the point of expressing remorse if leading Japanese politicians (which are representatives of the Japanese people) repeatedly go to Yasukuni shrine. When I visited the shrine's website a few years ago, it stated that Japan was framed by western countries and other Asian countries wanted Japan to lead a greater asian co-prosperity sphere. It also portrayed the comfort women as liars.

All we are asking of the Japanese is please respect the sentiments of your victims, let bygones be bygones, do not rub salt on the wound. Stop going to that shrine.

And btw, other than this disagreement, I love Japanese culture and its people... but on this point, Japan is on the wrong. It has let its false pride get in the way of doing what is right.

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Spidapig - do you take responsibility for whatever your country did in the past? I don't. And I certainly don't hold anything against people from countries that committed atrocities or whatever in mine. This is different to what Noda is saying (he is denying/trying to cover the past), but as long as YuriOtani recognises Japan's past, there is no need for he/she to take any sort of responsibility.

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So many of you I would like to comment back on, so here's a little snippet summary of everyone I disagree with:

Asagao<< Stop visiting that shrine? >>

Perhaps the most contentious comment. This is Japan and you don't tell Japanese to stop visiting Yasukuni. Full stop!

Holakitty<>

We have, in the form of Millions of dollars in ODA and other concessions for over 30 years! What about respecting the sentiments of those who want to visit Yasukuni - a sacred shrine? What about respecting the religious sentiments behind shrines visits period. China could go along ways if it learns to respects other's sentiments first, before forcing other countries to respects its sentiments.

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I am not going to take responsibility for my ancestors.

Well then you can't take responsiblity for the good things either.

I think you will find that China doesn't make a big religious celebration over NAZI era leaders. In Germany and Austria such activities face a prison sentence. China is our neighbour and is a developed country of one billion people. It has a stable government and in 10 years time will be the number one country. Poking sticks at a sleeping dragon is not wise for a country crippled by the nuclear accident and holding debt at twice the GDP. And America won't help, they ran away from Georgia, lost the Vietnam and Korean wars in this region, defeated in Iraq and getting wasted in Afghanistan. The only hope for Japan is to bury these Ishihara-dinosaurs and their offspring like Maehara and be nice to our important neighbours.

Germany and Austria are the countries that PERPETRATED the atrocities in Europe in WW2, so I don't get the comparison. The equivalent would be Japan creating the same laws in its country, but we all know that won't happen I said already in my post that Japan whitewashes its history. As long as this continues to occur, Korea and China will always have that card to play. Japan's fault. Oh and China is far from developed. Even if it becomes the world's largest economy in ten years, it'll take many more decades for living standards to catch up with the West and Japan.

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BoratLikeBarry

Spidapig - do you take responsibility for whatever your country did in the past? I don't.

In my home country we do recognize the past and take responsibility for it. For example we not to long ago apologized as a nation to the indigenous population for past generations actions. So l guess the answer is yes.

And I certainly don't hold anything against people from countries that committed atrocities or whatever in mine. This is different to what Noda is saying (he is denying/trying to cover the past), but as long as YuriOtani recognises Japan's past, there is no need for he/she to take any sort of responsibility.

The problem is and if you read some of Yuri's other posts he/she doesnt recognize Japans past indiscretions but rather tries to blame everyone else for them. That is why l made the comment l did.

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Most Japanese do not know of such horrors by design; not necessarily by deceit. It's not necessary to teach it, just like with other example of history where one nation dominated the other. Nanking has never been proven to be 100% fact based by academia. Sure, Nanking occurred, but to say that it was anything more from a bunch of bleeding heart liberals is disgraceful. Nanking was no Holocaust. An atrocity at best, but no more hateful than Tibet and Jim Crowe Laws of America.

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It's not necessary to teach it

Yes it IS necessary to teach it. You invalidated the rest of your post with this line.

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Nippon NationAUG. 31, 2011 - 09:38AM JST Most Japanese do not know of such horrors by design; not necessarily by deceit. It's not necessary to teach it, just like with other example of history where one nation dominated the other. Nanking has never been proven to be 100% fact based by academia. Sure, Nanking occurred, but to say that it was anything more from a bunch of bleeding heart liberals is disgraceful. Nanking was no Holocaust. An atrocity at best, but no more hateful than Tibet and Jim Crowe Laws of America.

This is exactly why Chinese should never forget. "Sure, Nanking occurred" What kind of attitude of this? Can I speak in the same way about the recent problems in Japan? Can I speak in the same way to Jewish about Nazi?

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I think you invalidated yourself. It is not necessary to teach defeatism.

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I think you invalidated yourself. It is not necessary to teach defeatism.

It's necessary to teach history. Sucks for Japan that it was defeated, but that doesn't mean it's entitled to a get out of jail (or war tribunal) card.

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Japan did a lot of bad things to the people of China, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, Burma and others. Nanking happened, you can not wash it away the past will always bleed though to reveal itself. Okinawa being part of Japan has to take its share of blame for the past. Of course doing such leave Korea open as well. Right or wrong Korea was part of Japan as well. The past is our past the best we can do is to teach our children and not repeat the mistakes of the past. This means no intervention in the affairs of others. Now Japan has another new PM and we have to break the past from repeating itself. China is going to cause trouble over his past statements. So sorry! Japan does not ask China for approval of our officials. It is China's move, will they use this as an excuse to cause trouble? Think if not this issue another will be found. I get tired of explaing myself

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YuriOtani, this one statement perfectly states why these countries have issues with Japan. The fact that you will not take responsibility for your countries past deeds.The "Oh we didnt do them so its not our problem" sums it up perfectly.

Darn right, what did we do to stop the Koizumi cabinet from conspiring to wage aggressive war against Iraq through aid and abetment? We let the whole issue slide, no wait, we didn't even consider the legality of the proceedings at all for so much that happened just a few years ago. This is a hanging matter that falls squarely as Class-A war crimes.: the act, aiding or abetting. conspiring to wage aggressive war. Many Japanese and German politicians were sentenced to death some 60 odd years ago for relatively minor things Koizumi had done as a conspirator. But we all know that Koizumi himself doesn't think the Iraq War is illegal, that's why he goes to visit the old Class-A war criminals a Yasukuni,

If Japan does not take a hard stance against elements of its present government that supported the Iraq War, it's hard to imagine if there is any shred of remorse for what Japan role in WWII. It's easy to feign remorse by saying how terrible Japan was during WWII, for the hypocritical and blood thirsty Chinese and Koreans that might be enough. However, applying the lessons from history to the present is where it counts and is a real change. So far Japan is failing hard at it, but most Japan doesn't even know that.

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I pray at Yasukuni for my grandfather who died in WWII in Tokyo, when I'm not in my family's hometown. No arrogant Chinese or Korean is going to tell me not to.

Unfortunately, Yasukuni brought in the names/spirits of convicted/accused war criminals in the mid-70s but that has nothing to do with me or my grandfather nor to the thousands of other souls that are there.

Sometimes the past need to atonement and each to a different degree. The current Chinese/Korean populace demand atonement excessively. The Japanese DO whitewash their own history (just as the Chinese & Koreans do). There's plenty of shame to go around for all three.

Personally, I believe these three governments should treat each other by what policies/actions they take towards each other now and from the past 30 years, which I consider to be of THIS generation.

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Speed; yeah great idea, then you don't have to go to yasukuni as gandfather died over thirty years ago.

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When you go to a shrine or a grave you pray for those who died from yesterday to however many years back. Your flippant remark steve@CPFC doesn't make you look very educated and shows poor reading comprehension.

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I do not waste my breath here. Let's get to the points.

I have 5 requests to China. .

1) Adopt currency floating system if China wants to play in global economy. .

2) Remove all restrictions and open the market to foreign investors abd businesses.. China can purchase foreign bonds/treasuries while foregin investors cannot.

3)Respect international Copy Rights for all foreign products..

4)Most importantly, respect Freedom of press and human rights for all Chinese citizens.

5)Stop aggressive military actions in Asian Sea now..

Respectively.

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@speedy<< And that's a pretty solid point. You pray there because of your grandfather's sacrifice. I think a lot of Westerners forget this. In America, we never question the interment of people at Arlington, because it would be almost sacrilegious. American's just assume that all of these soldiers fought to liberate people from oppression. History teaches us differently. When it comes to China, they lack total decency. They do not acknowledge Japan's sovereignty, and they have no respect for its institutions. They order Japanese to refrain from visiting a sacred shrine because they feel offended, because history. They never make an effort towards understanding the delicate nature of the Japanese.

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@Nippon Nation

They order Japanese to refrain from visiting a sacred shrine because they feel offended

They don't "order", they "request". And I'd suggest that you're not making much effort towards understanding the nature of the Chinese, and the reason they feel offended.

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It's all just gone on too long. Japan has apologised, given money back, blah blah blah. Once the generation who are 20-30 now are 40-50 and in charge of each country, I hope we can all just get along without harping on about the past all the time.

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An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

It's better to focus on the future, the past can't be changed, the future that has yet to be set is what is important.

I'm saying this as a citizen of a SEA country that got invaded by Japan during WWII. It was a horrible and tragic event, but what is done is done. You want revenge? How much is enough? They already ate 2 nukes.

It was over half a century ago. Do you really want your children and children's children to pull a Cpt Ahab and wasting their time and energy pursuing this grudge?

Everyone makes mistakes. That's life. The best that can be hoped for is to not repeat the same mistakes.

And frankly, China is in no position to talk. coughTibetcough

PS: I noticed something, most of the time such revenged-based anger is actually anger with oneself, one's weakness. I say this as someone who has lost quite a few brawls in his life.

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A typical Chinese welcoming wagon filled with threats and reminders of their claims to the new prime minister of Japan. An annoying neighbor indeed.

And a typical example of not practicing what [they] preach: 'interfering in [another nation's] internal affairs'.

The next time China is mouthing it we can only laugh.

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Does Mr Noda has an idea where is 'rare earth' came from? And he knows what next......

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Nippon Nation

They order Japanese to refrain from visiting a sacred shrine because they feel offended, because history. They never make an effort towards understanding the delicate nature of the Japanese.

Really? I thought that they didnt like the shrine because apart from all the everyday Japanese soldiers buried there, there are also a lot of war criminals buried there as well. I can understand people going to the shrine to commemorate the fallen from this country and do not begrudge anyone doing that. The problem is the waters have been muddied with the internment of the ashes of these convicted criminals with those of the rest of the military people and l believe this is what muddies the waters.

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@Spidapig24 <<

There are no physical remains interred at Yasukuni Shrine, as shrines do not handle matters of the dead. That's the role of the temple ( Buddhism). Yasukuni Shrine is a place where the bereaved reflect on the MEMORY of the dead. And it's none of China's business to dishonor the memory of the bereaved whose lives were greatly affected by the misery caused by WW2. That's why Yasukuni is sacred, and is regarded as a place of peace. China does not understand this sacredness because they desecrate everything that goes contrary to their own party politic line, which in turn effects popular opinions which only serves to feed the mass ignorance of its youth, who themselves are blinded by hatred they know nothing about.

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tlldcd<< You cannot even begin to compare Nanking with the Holocaust. The only thing that can equal the holocaust in terms of scale is the wiping out of the native American and the 400 years of systematic extermination of African Americans all over the world. Nanking will never be on the same level because the Chinese had a standing army at that time, that was capable of defending Nanking, but because of party politics the citizens of Nanking were deserted and left unprotected. I speak of Nanking as an atrocity that occurred. That's it! It is nothing more than that and never will be.

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shrines do not handle matters of the dead.

What? So what's the point of "enshrining" people after they die?

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China enshrines and practically worships all their previous leaders that were murderous tyrants.

If China said they liked the new PM then people should wonder if they made the right choice.

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Lets not forget this is still the government of Mao who murdered up to 70 million of there own people "striving" to give them a better life. They still have a stranglehold on their people, human rights abuses abound and anybody who complains too vociferously disappears. Japan would do well to remain cautious of such a neighbor. The tiger may have rearranged its stripes but certainly not it's heart nor its mind. I wish Noda-san all the luck in the world in these difficult times. He will need it.

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You cannot even begin to compare Nanking with the Holocaust. The only thing that can equal the holocaust in terms of scale is the wiping out of the native American and the 400 years of systematic extermination of African Americans all over the world. Nanking will never be on the same level because the Chinese had a standing army at that time, that was capable of defending Nanking, but because of party politics the citizens of Nanking were deserted and left unprotected. I speak of Nanking as an atrocity that occurred. That's it! It is nothing more than that and never will be.

wow...just...wow. nanking was just one of MANY atrocities commited by the japanese in china. remember unit 731? the aftermath of the doolittle raid in which the japanese massacrered 250,000 chinese civilians, including the use of germ warefare? infecting whole villages with diseases? your attempt to downplay the massacreres commited by japan is disgusting and is a reason why so many chinese hates you japanese nationalists. and please dont change history. nanking was not deserted and left unprotected. chinese soldiers did stood to defend nanking, the battle of nanking was then fought, japan won the battle, the city surrendered, and the notorious nanking massacre followed soon after even though nanking surrendered. and yet here we have japanese nationalists telling us that the atomic bombing should never have been dropped because japan was on the brink of surrendering. how ironic.

That's it! It is nothing more than that and never will be.

well thats according to japanese textbooks. the nanking massacre will forever remain as a symbol of japanese atrocities commited on innocent civilians in asia, as according to historians around the world. that is how it is and how it will always be.

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Back on topic please.

China enshrines and practically worships all their previous leaders that were murderous tyrants.

if china enshrines leaders who murdered 20 million japanese civilians, then you have the right to complain.

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And it's none of China's business to dishonor the memory of the bereaved whose lives were greatly affected by the misery caused by WW2.

it is china's business to involve themselves with a shrine which honors those who caused misery on their lives in WW2. and how would chinese feel when japanese continue to dishonor those chinese whose lives were greatly affected by the misery caused by japan in ww2? JAPAN ARE NOT THE VICTIMS. so stop acting like one.

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It was a horrible and tragic event, but what is done is done. You want revenge? How much is enough? They already ate 2 nukes.

revenge? no way. we just want japan to finally do what germany has always been doing - expressing guilt for the atrocities they have commited in ww2. can you imagine any japanese politician doing what willy brandt already did decades ago?

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Yasukuni Shrine is a place where the bereaved reflect on the MEMORY of the dead. And it's none of China's business to dishonor the memory of the bereaved whose lives were greatly affected by the misery caused by WW2.

Nippon Nation, if only the Japanese would do the same of what you are asking the Chinese. The message which Yasukuni gives is aggressively negating the sufferings of Japan's victims in WW2. Why can't Japan humbly remember the dead without always downplaying all the atrocities it has committed?

What other countries have done to their own or other people is irrelevant for this discussion. This is about Japan's lack of empathy.

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gonemad, it goes hand in hand with what the "allies" did to Japanese POW's and Japanese civilians. Just a quick look reveals over 140,000 helpless Japanese Prisoners were killed by the victors. This does not include the Chinese communists who killed 10s of thousands more. While this does in no way excuse the Japanese actions, it provides context. Thus it can be argued the allies had no empathy for the Japanese. They saw them as vermin and treated them as such. So fast forward it 66 years and the Chinese still dislike Japanese. People who have done nothing by apologize and pay them money in repatriations. China is never going to get past the past until they forgive the Japanese of the past. However this will never happen no matter what Japan does to atone for her misdeeds.

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Agree with YuriOtani.

Many of the medical experiments that the WWII victors did to enemy soldiers are slowly emerging. Aka: The Syphilis experiments done on the Tuskegee squadron, etc, etc. Much of that data has only come to light/been declassified recently. Just read the daily international news. Even read news about a father hitting his son and tossing him from a ferry today.

And more experiments that were done in the 60's and 70's using student volunteers, etc.

There are no clean hands but I do feel that Korea, China, USA need to move on as the rest of the world has done. This is no longer the world of 60-70 or so years ago, this is the now and we need to deal with todays problems.

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YuriOtaniSep. 01, 2011 - 03:20AM JST. So fast forward it 66 years and the Chinese still dislike Japanese. People who have done nothing by apologize and pay them money in repatriations. China is never going to get past the past until they forgive the Japanese of the past.

Why is Japan so clueless on how to proceed with better relations? What good is the apology when you still have over 50 goverment members still attending Yasukuni? How sincere is the apology when there is no action? Maybe Japan is good in copying, why don't they learn from what Germany did after the war? J-Goverment needs to guarantee that the next generation of Japanese schoolchildren will be taught the full extent of wartime atrocities committed by the Japanese. Right now, in Germany, it's against the law not to teach the Holocaust in public schools. Contrast this with Japan, which for decades has systematically covered Japanese war crimes. The J-goverment whitewashed it from their textbooks. The rape of Nanking, just that incident the number of deaths that resulted surpasses the death toll of the victims of Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined. That's just one incident. And the rape of Nanking was not a unique and isolated incident. There were so many similar atrocities that occurred all throughout China. So few people even know about them. And every year on August 6th, Japan keeps looking at the mirror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the victim of the war which they cannot see beyond. Who was the real victim of the war?

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sfjp330, unlike Germany, Japan is a free country today. There are no restrictions on speech like in Germany. I find comparing Japan to Germany insulting. So how is Japan suppose to better relations? I suspect even if the rape of Nanking was taught in the "proper" Chinese way it would not be enough. Again, we the people of Japan with the exception of some old men has done nothing to China or Korea. The past is the past and what happened can not be undone. About Yasukuni, it is a private place a religious place in Japan. The government does not pay for it or support its actions. The government interfering with it would be a violation of its Constitution. Unlike China Japan supports freedom of religion.

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YuriOtaniSep. 01, 2011 - 04:32AM JST The past is the past and what happened can not be undone. About Yasukuni, it is a private place a religious place in Japan.

This is about Japanese culture and it's part of the problem, but it's still no excuse. Believe it or not, but many Germans don't want to honor Hitler because he was evil and tortured millions of people to death based on their race. Being moral human beings, they see him as something to be ashamed of, not honored. Many people don't want Japanese war criminals to be honored for the same reasons, it's very simple. You don't honor extremely evil people. And you don't brainwash people in your country to believe you did nothing wrong in WWII. J-goverment continues the support of class A criminals with taxpayers money by annually sending 50+ goverment officials to pray and they represent millions of ordinary citizens of Japan. Noda should shut these people down.

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sfjp330, the tax payers do not support Yasukuni. What certain politicians do is their own business. Again there is freedom of religion, second the ashes of the war criminals are not there. Third the war criminals paid the price by hanging from a rope. China is just causing trouble as always. If it is not the new PM it would be something else. I favor having nothing to do with China, bring the Japanese jobs home. Only the greedy Japanese corps love China. Would rather have China as a honest foe than a dishonest friend.

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gonemad>Nippon Nation, if only the Japanese would do the same of what you are asking the Chinese. The message which Yasukuni gives is aggressively negating the sufferings of Japan's victims in WW2. Why can't Japan humbly remember the dead without always downplaying all the atrocities it has committed?

What other countries have done to their own or other people is irrelevant for this discussion. This is about Japan's lack of empathy.<

I'm afraid you are missing the point. Yasukuni and Nanking and China have nothing to do with Yasukuni. There is no association between Yasukuni and China at all. Yasukuni is a shrine that honors the remains of Japan's war dead. Read between the lines.

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jackleng>wow...just...wow. nanking was just one of MANY atrocities commited by the japanese in china. remember unit 731? the aftermath of the doolittle raid in which the japanese massacrered 250,000 chinese civilians, including the use of germ warefare? infecting whole villages with diseases? your attempt to downplay the massacreres commited by japan is disgusting and is a reason why so many chinese hates you japanese nationalists. and please dont change history. nanking was not deserted and left unprotected. chinese soldiers did stood to defend nanking, the battle of nanking was then fought, japan won the battle, the city surrendered, and the notorious nanking massacre followed soon after even though nanking surrendered. and yet here we have japanese nationalists telling us that the atomic bombing should never have been dropped because japan was on the brink of surrendering. how ironic.[end]

Massacre...? Get in line. Nanking is only an atrocity, like the untold other atrocities ever committed in modern civilization. Holocaust level, no! You are trying to make it bigger than that, and you are violating the rights of millions of Japanese when you say that they must not visit Yasukuni! You even threaten them with sanction like tactics warning that if they go they'll suffer consequences. The contentious stance comes from China, not Japan.

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All readers back on topic please. The subject is China's response to Noda's election. From here on, posts that do not focus on this will be removed.

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I'm afraid you are missing the point. Yasukuni and Nanking and China have nothing to do with Yasukuni. There is no association between Yasukuni and China at all. Yasukuni is a shrine that honors the remains of Japan's war dead. Read between the lines.

lets say there was a memorial in germany dedicated to all the nazi soldiers who died in ww2. do you think that will not cause uproar among the jewish population? but ofcourse that will actually never happen. because germany, unlike japan, have already expressed their guilt for their actions and would never do something that will open old wounds. japan, take note.

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CHINA calling Noda a right-wing nationalist? You have got to be kidding me? That is nonsense on so many levels! How can China call anyone that? I think they hold that HONOR more than anyone right now, WOW MInd-numbingly hypocritical!

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China has no business telling Japan not to visit the shrine. That is an internal issue. China doesn't like other countries meddling in it's national affairs and is really quick to jump on that bandwagon. I don't like PMs going there anyway, because of the issue but China has no right butting into internal affairs. BUG OFF!

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Every time China has cracked down on protests and been criticized by other countries, China has always said" BUTT OUT. this is an internal issue"! What is good for the goose is good for the gander. In reality the Chinese government loves when PMs go to the shrine, because they can turn the people's attention from the problems that permeate their country to getting people to focus on the EVIL JAPANESE EMPIRE! LAUGHABLE!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yes, Japan should follow Germany. Hey, check this out. EVERY COUNTRY SHOULD!! That is the only country that has taken full responsibility for their past. But no one else has done so. Come one, European domination of most of the world and that part of history has never been concentrated on by them.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Kersey23: How can you blaming the Chinese government : they can turn the people's attention from the problems that permeate their country to getting people to focus on the EVIL JAPANESE EMPIRE.....etc. Let me tell you, the Japanese leftist media were the one who were eager to let the whole world knows if there was any inappropiate remarks spoken from their statesmen in order to make news healines and forcing him to resign. If there was a politician making WW2 related remarks with offending messages, the news will becoming poltical tension across east asia and resulting in tensions or crisis! So how can you blame the Chinese government's 'appropiate response'? If those war remarks were never spoken, sure there wont be anything for Japan news media to report and no waves kicking off!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@just-a-guy

So the Japanese press shouldn't report the speeches of Japanese politicians in order to preserve the peace? Sounds like a mad way to run the media to me. And anyway, in your own words:

If those war remarks were never spoken, sure there wont be anything for Japan news media to report and no waves kicking off!

Exactly! It's the idiots making the comments, not the press, who's at fault here

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Just-a-guy!!! It is called real journalism. Something that is lacking in China. The Chinese government loves it. It takes the focus of attention off of them. See that is the difference between the Japanese/Western media and the Chinese government (who control the media there, I mean who are we kidding?) That is the difference. News is reported, even if it may not make the government happy. IN CHina however, the story is quite different.

Yes, people say dumb things. But blame the people who say them, not the media. But that is not the issue here. China has told the Japanese PM not to visit Yasukuni. How dare they? It is an internal matter. NOne of China's business whatsoever. What happens in China is always China's business. And it loves to tell other countries to BUTT OUT. But China does not mind shaking its finger at others. Hypocritical to say the least.

Noda has not even gotten started and the Chinese government is already picking a fight like a bully on the playground. This is clever. It turns the attention away from them. The Chinese government is the one filled with right wingers. You can't say anything against the Chinese government without them getting OFFENDED. As we all know from reading Chinese newspapers the Chinese government is always right. Yeah, right. Sure. That is why the press is controlled by the government. See, if news agencies don't report REAL news, than they are just like the Chinese press. Sorry.

As Lucabrasi said,

**"It's the idiots making the comments, not the press, who's at fault her

e"** Blame the idiots. But the media there in China at least needs to give Noda a chance.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

And I congratulate the so-called left wing media for reporting when government officials put their foots in their mouths. But I am a little confused about something. It has always been my belief that the media here and the government was quite cozy with each other. Maybe I am wrong.

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If they didn't report what these knuckleheads say then they would not be journalists.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

yasukuni is a shrine dedicated to murderers and war criminals. it deserves to be burnt down

But the media there in China at least needs to give Noda a chance.

Noda already shot himself in the foot with his yasukuni comment

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Yuri!! I have never heard such a thing about Germany . Please elaborate. Secondly, the true sadness of it is that the Shrine should not even be there in the first place. Japan has done little to atone for its past and has made abundant excuses for its past. Does not even come close to Germany when it comes to really teaching about the past and makes excuses galore for the past. It whitewashes history ridiculously. You like many other Japanese are no where near Germans when it comes to true honesty about your country's past. Neither are we Americans, though. But at least this one can admit it. Millions of Chinese were killed by the Japanese and no amount of excuses is ever going to make it any better. It is sad when people feel it inconvenient and make excuses like "I didn't do it" and say things like, "Why should I apologize?" That is just convenient! What you can do is not have an establishment that provokes anger among your country's victims. What is the NAZIs had a place to honor their fallen soldiers? Don't you think that people would go nuts? Are you trying to say that Japan was fighting the good fight while Germans were just evil and killing people? Are you trying to say that the German men who fought and died where more evil than the Japanese military that killed millions in Asia?**Are you trying to say that the Japanese men who occupied most of Asia were just victims of the government while the German men were different and went there voluntarily?** If you are then you are sugar-coating your country's past. And there in lies the probvlem and the reason that we are still arguing about this issue.

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Yuri. You say that there is nothing that Japan could do and that the Chinese will always feel this way. How do you know? Japan has not been honest about it and forthright like the Germans. Honestly, neither have we in the west. But if Japan behaved like Germany than the Chinese would have nothing to complain about. Giving money and an occasional apology really does nothing at all. It has to be taught in school. Japan seems horrendously hypocritical every year when it pays homage to Nagasaki and Hiroshima but does not even try to look in China's direction. You give them fuel for the fire. It is like a criminal feeling sorry for himself and saying I was treated unfairly. That is what makes people angry.

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I feel great sadness for the victims on all sides. Nanking, HIroshima, Nagasaki and the whole bunch. But your side was the aggressor and continues to honor its own war dead while ignoring the victims that your country created. I wish my own country would teach true history as well, so I am not only attacking yours but mine as well.

There are so many Japanese who find true history about the past inconvenient. That is convenient and hardly fair at all. But once again this is true for most of us in the west as well.

@jackleng

yasukuni is a shrine dedicated to murderers and war criminals. it deserves to be burnt down

This is not right for you to say. You are being unfairly iconoclastic and these types of comments well never change people's minds.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

They only make people angry

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Germany may be guilty of not letting people spread crap around that the holucost didn't happen but that is okay in my book. They are responsible for their history and making sure it doesn't get whitewashed.

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The kami of all the war criminals should be removed form the shrine. They don't deserve to be honoured.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The kami of all the war criminals should be removed form the shrine. They don't deserve to be honoured.

We all wish it was that easy. The shrine has been requested/asked to do so for years by the japanese government but they refuse.

Which is their right as the goverment can't force them due to the separation of Church and State.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Knowing what happened in the past and understanding those events is the most important way to prevent it from happening again. The new generation should learn more about the atrocities committed during war, not to incite them to hatred, but to help them realize how and why we should prevent this kind of thing from happening ever again. Turning a blind eye to the past is the worst thing we could do. The atrocities of war are proof enough that we should avoid war at all costs.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

We all wish it was that easy. The shrine has been requested/asked to do so for years by the japanese government but they refuse.

Which is their right as the goverment can't force them due to the separation of Church and State.

Can you imagine if any German politician went to a memorial site for the German war dead which had people like Goring and Hesse listed? There'd be uproar and rightly so. Any Japanese politican who visits the Yasukuni shrine should be immediately fired.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

After the war, the Germans and Japanese had a different reaction to their bad behavior during the war. Most of the Germans were remorseful and guilt ridden. The Japanese immediately tried to rewrite history, and are still at it. Within days of Japan's surrender in 1945, coded messages went out from Tokyo to Japanese diplomats around the world, ordering them to start a campaign portraying Japan as a victim in the war, and to play down Japanese atrocities and play up Japanese civilian losses in the recent atomic bomb attacks. These messages were not decrypted by the U.S. until years after the war. That's because the war was over, there were other priorities like cracking Russian codes and the Japanese the messages were recorded and filed away. By the time the Japanese messages were deciphered, the Cold War had begun, and Japan was needed as an ally against the communist menace. What was not so secret were Japanese efforts to ignore the war and portray themselves as victims. Many Japanese opposed rewriting history, which was often quite blatant. This meddling with historical facts regularly caused problems with neighbors, especially China. But the Japanese were insistent on evading responsibility. They still are, and many Japanese really believe it.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Over the last 66 years, the Japanese have created a fantasy version of World War II in which they were victims, their many atrocities never happened and the atomic bombs were war crimes, not key factors in halting the Japanese created horrors. After all, the women raped and men murdered were not Japanese. So what did it matter? This racist attitude influenced everything the Japanese soldier did. Prisoners often received particularly harsh treatment. Not just because they were non-Japanese, but mainly because the Japanese did not consider surrender an option. At the end of the war, before the atomic bombs were dropped, the Japanese high command sent orders to all commanders of prisoner of war camps to be prepared to kill all their prisoners on short notice, especially if enemy forces were nearby. The Allies became aware of this order, and when the Japanese finally agreed to surrender, the Japanese were told to rescind the kill all prisoners order, or else. U.S. stopped the mass killing of prisoners.

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Lol at the thumbs down. The average German would never be so blatantly defiant and 'so what?' about their country's abominable WW2 behaviour as alot of Japanese people I've met have been. Have you got no shame? I though Japan was a shame-based culture.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@sfjp

coded messages went out from Tokyo to Japanese diplomats around the world, ordering them to start a campaign portraying Japan as a victim in the war, and to play down Japanese atrocities and play up Japanese civilian losses in the recent atomic bomb attacks.

Not doubting you for a second, but a source would be good here....

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oginome, do not care about Germans, they can grovel at the feet of their "betters". The war is 66 years and we the present are innocent.

66 years, so what? The people in Germany today are innocent and yet they recognise the importance of teaching and remembering the past. Why can't Japan do the same?

The war criminals were justly hung and or imprisoned.

Not all of them. Many of them went on to lead full, free lives after the war.

So China wants Japan to grovel before them? Well it is not going to happen, not today, not tomorrow, never. If they want a war, it will be China that starts the war. They are picking a fight with every country in southeast Asia except Korea, interesting. There was a incident with an Indian Naval ship. So if China wants bad relations, go for it! I hate the current fair weather fake friendship.

I agree China is being a self-righteous, sneaky, manipulative bully, but Japan feeds into this by whitewashing its past, thus constantly giving China ammunition.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

No , their ashes are not there. Just there names. OR so we are told. But so what? Their names are. Yuri, when I read posts like your it sometimes makes me understand why the CHinese are still angry. PLust the politicians who apologize one moment and than another one thumbs his nose (Shintaro "I am so great") Ishihara at CHina and the two Koreas. Use all the excuses you want e,g., "I am Okinawan" or "Today's people are innocent", blah, blah, blah, and you just keep the fire alive.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I lost two Japanese uncles in the war and I hope that they conducted themselves honorably. There's no way of knowing where they were stationed or how they met their ends. I hope that China and the other countries will one day learn to trust Japan in spite of what's happened in the past.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Yappari, the Chinese hasn't gotten over with the news of being the world's no. 2 economy. And with some powerful chinese backers who are long time residents in Japan, small wonder why they are so arrogant and already putting pressure on the new PM. No, I'm not anti Chinese. I'm actually half Fil, half Chinese. And I agree with the rest, any country has a shameful historic past yet we have to move on and learn from those mistakes that war or chaos brings out the beast in humans. I don't want to be discriminated from being a Filipino just because Ferdinand Magellan, a Portugese who circumnavigated the world in 1521 was killed by a Filipino. Or asked Japan for lifetime repentance for having an ancestor impregnated by a Jsoldier during the war and at war's end had her and the child in her womb killed by a bayonet..

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YUri! Fact is that your people came under Japanese rule in the Edo Period. There were Okinawan people in the military, officers included. You pay taxes to the Japanese government. You have Japanese citizenship. Hence you are Japanese. Therefore you are the same. Chinese should be wary of people like you who make excuses. If I were Chinese your reaction would give me weariness as well.

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That is why the Chinese are wary of Japan. Its inability to be frank, open and honest about its past.

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Kersey23, so did the Koreans. They paid tax as well to the Imperial government. They rewrote history as well as so the Chinese. Again China's reaction is to keep the "heat" of hate alive within China and as many other countries as possible. One day they will come for Japan and until that day need to keep the hatred alive.

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The kami of all the war criminals should be removed form the shrine. They don't deserve to be honoured.

You can't "remove" anybody from a shrine. All the enshrined people's souls are mixed up together, according to the Shinto religion.

Unfortunate, I'd agree. But if you're going to respect theShinto religion then that's the end of it, really.... :(

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Kersey23, so did the Koreans. They paid tax as well to the Imperial government. They rewrote history as well as so the Chinese. Again China's reaction is to keep the "heat" of hate alive within China and as many other countries as possible.

LMAO! isint japan the one who is keeping the hate alive by whitewashing its brutal past? china has every rights to be angry with japan.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Readers, once again we remind you that the topic is Noda's election and how China views it.

Here is the problem Ladies and Gentlemen. Yuri on one side and Jackieng on the other. Both hold extreme views and that is why PEACE is not to be had. Both countries are openly distrustful of each other. Both aggressive in their beliefs and not giving the other an inch. Such a sad thing, when one can't show genuine contrition and admit its wrongs and makes excuses which enables the other one to keep the hatred alive. The other one LOVES that. It keeps it in power. It brainwashes its people to think of the other one as evil.

The Chinese people need to understand. This is not the Japan that committed war on its neighbors. This is an entirely different Japan. It would never go ballistic again. Most of the people who were in that war are long gone. ENOUGH ALREADY. How many more years do you want to beat this drum? All you are doing is creating anger on both sides. Anger never fixes anything. LET IT GO. FOR YOURSELVES AT LEAST. And for the rest of us who are tired of hearing about it. Make peace.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Kersey23, an not on a extreme side. The Chinese reaction is his comments about Yasukuni. I see it as a freedom of religion issue. There is nothing the government can do about it. The priests there enshrined the class A war criminals. Their view is their souls are cleansed after death. This would never happen in Germany since they do not believe this. My view is China is testing our new PM. They will use every cheap trick to slander him. Looking at the article, there is nothing our new PM can do to please the Peoples Republic of China. He has been judged "right wing" and is going to be attacked.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yes, you are right once again. Bravo. But the problem is the visit by the PM and some other diet members. That is what gets everyone excited. PMs and other officials do this not for the souls of the victims, but to gain support from voters who are outspokenly right wing or closet right-wingers. They do it to show that they will be strong against foreign powers. Many of them have said they never even visited it until they were elected. They don't realize the actual damage that it does.

I personally believe that the Shrine is supported through personal gifts from politicians here. And you have shown very extreme views in some of your posts.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You can't "remove" anybody from a shrine. All the enshrined people's souls are mixed up together, according to the Shinto religion.

Unfortunate, I'd agree. But if you're going to respect theShinto religion then that's the end of it, really.... :(

Well their names at the very least should be removed, if it can't be done with their kami. Japan's absolute worst side continues to be shown in their attitudes to the war and how it's remembered/taught. I can't believe people go to the Yasukuni shrine with no shame.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Nice to see someone in office willing to stand up to China and its aggressive military expansionism all over Asia. If the CCP party mouthpieces don't like him, I'd say that's a sign that he's doing something right.

The Senkaku islands have long been treated as part of Japan's territory. China is just trying to wind the clock back 200 years and pretend that international law doesn't apply to them.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Kersey23, am not a brown nose, so not being 100 percent in line with American policy is "extremist"? Again what can the government do? It is private property n freedom of religion is part of our constitution. While they are in the government they are also people. It would be illegal to prevent them from practicing their religion. China does not believe this, they cracked down on an exercise group. There are no freedoms in China, thus their reaction to our new PM.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I can't believe people go to the Yasukuni shrine with no shame.

I can’t believe that shrine owner was totally unaware that he tarnished the arc of Yasukuni by ignoring Hiroito’s wish not to add the names of those war crime leaders to honor them under the Shinto. These war criminals were indeed trouble-makers not just for the Allied Powers, but for the Japanese government and the imperial family as well. They refused to budge an inch on Japan‘s surrender by chanting the emperor’s name for their wish of retaining power.

Noda may be right in calling for the reconsideration of these former sinners/criminals because 1) it was their sacrifice that Japan turned the page after WWII; and 2) it makes little sense to spell out the criminal verdict -- in present tense, repetitively-- to those who were already executed 66 years ago. Yet, he needs to be more careful in addressing this culturally sensitive issue in a way to separate his religious view from his position on Japan’s responsibility for war crime.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Careful Japan; the harvest you can expect will come from the seeds yoiu have sown. (and continue to sow.)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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