politics

Okinawa governor asks Gemba, Morimoto to cancel Osprey deployment

71 Comments

Okinawa Gov Hirokazu Nakaima on Tuesday met with Foreign Minister Koichiro Gemba and Defense Minister Satoshi Morimoto in Tokyo and asked the government to cancel the proposed deployment of 24 U.S. MV-22 Osprey aircraft at the U.S. Marine Corps base at Futenma in Ginowan.

Nakaima said he cannot agree to the Osprey's deployment until its safety has been publicly proven, TBS reported. He said that the government's prime responsibility is to protect the lives of its people.

An Osprey aircraft crashed in Morocco in April and another one crashed in Florida last week. Gemba told Nakaima that Tokyo has asked the U.S. to provide full details on the cause of both crashes as soon as possible, TBS reported.

The U.S. military plans to replace aging CH-46s with the Osprey after bringing them to Iwakuni in Yamaguchi Prefecture for assembly and testing in July. However, the Yamaguchi deployment has been put on hold, pending the results of the Florida crash investigation.

The $70 million Osprey is the U.S. military’s latest-generation transport aircraft. It combines airplane-like wings with rotors that allow it to take off and land like a helicopter. Its engines roll forward in flight, allowing it to fly faster than a standard helicopter.

© Japan Today/AP

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71 Comments
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Ask and you shall receive.......NOT! I am surprised that the folks in Tokyo haven't developed cauliflower ears from listening to all these "demands" and "requests" from the Okinawa politburo.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Close Futenma.

Why do we have to put up with foreign troops in the middle of a crowded metropolitan area?

The bases are a drain on the economy. The land would make FAR more money if the military got out. And ANY kind of aircraft, let alone crash prone Ospreys is a bad idea in such a crowded area.

The US bases are patently useless. They defend nobody. There's nobody to defend from!

Except the terrorists and "yellow peril" that the paranoid US seems to see behind every clump of grass.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

The bases are a drain on the economy. The land would make FAR more money if the military got out.

This is a fallacy. Returning the base is one thing, however the income that would be generated by everyone building their homes on the land or farming it would no way cover what the bases currently pump into Ginowan itself, directly and indirectly.

Why do we have to put up with foreign troops in the middle of a crowded metropolitan area?

It only became crowded because people made the choice to build their homes around the base.

Futenma needs to be moved YES, yet since the Okinawan politicians want their cake and eat it too an equitable solution is still years off.

Consider this.....if the base at Henoko had been agreed upon WAY BACK when, all those Marines you constantly harp about would have been off this island YEARS ago. Go figure huh?!?!

6 ( +9 / -3 )

"There are about 47,000 U.S. troops in Japan under a 1960 bilateral security treaty." According to The Associated Press, "between 4,700 and 5,000 Marines will relocate from Okinawa to Guam ... the remainder of the 9,000 who are to relocate from Okinawa will move to Hawaii or be part of a rotational presence in Australia and elsewhere in the region." A timetable has yet to be established. Japan has agreed to pay about $3.1 billion of the estimated $8.6 billion cost. OH YEA! approximately 10,000 Marines will remain on Okinawa. All I can do is pray for you Futenma.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Yubaru, it is our island the entire island. It does not belong to the USA and WWII is no excuse. Already the premise of the bases is wearing thin. The USA does not want to protect the entire prefecture. If they do not want to defend us it is time for all of them to leave. We will take our chances with the SDF.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

The USA does not want to protect the entire prefecture. If they do not want to defend us it is time for all of them to leave. We will take our chances with the SDF.

I believe the security treaty obliges the USA to defend not only Okinawa Prefecture but the other 46 as well and we are well prepared to do so. The SDF is a professional and well-equipped force but too small to deal with a military force the size of China's.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

YuriOtani, this is not a topic about whether or not the U.S is leaving. Technology is advancing all the time. This too is no exception.

That model helicopter is outdated. Therefore it is only natural that we continue to change aircraft no matter where we are in the world in order to fulfill operational needs with the most efficiency.

Japan has clearly demonstrated in every aspect of it's law and culture the mindset that gave us fossil fuels. The rules of engagement have changed, yet for some reason your argument and tactics have not.

If you wish to be more successful in changing SOFA you need to reassess what has happened to your country and where you stand. This is the reason why your argument is failing. Old men are wise but flexible they are not, literally.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

cannot agree to the Osprey’s deployment until its safety has been publicly proven

I'm sure the type of plane that Nakaima flew on to Tokyo has a crash history. All planes do. What "proof" would satisfy these people? None. Using the issue of safety is simply another political move to oppose any US military presence in Okinawa. Would the locals prefer the Marines use outdated helicopters? Nakaima is not really interested in safety, he's interested in kicking the Americans out.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Yubaru (Jun. 20, 2012 - 07:52AM JST),

Hearing Yubaru say things is like hearing a mobster bark back at people who are demanding immediate vacation of the land his syndicate has illegally occupied for so long (67 years!). The mobster says, "We will vacate the land only if its eplacement is provided. Otherwise, we won't return it because it means you guys 'have a cake and eat it too.' That's not a fair trade."

What kind of logic is that? And what kind of mentality does Yubaru have?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Yubaru, it is our island the entire island. It does not belong to the USA and WWII is no excuse.

First off, in many ways I have just as much right to lay claim to the island of Okinawa, if not even more so than you Yuri, BECAUSE I live here and have been here nearly 30 years. I never made a comment that it belongs to the USA and everyone KNOWS it doesnt.

The US Military are NOW invited guests in this country. Invited by the very government that you have obviously chosen to abandon. There is no need to continually harp on nearly ancient history. The facts are the facts, using the past as an excuse does no one any good looking towards the future. The past is a guideline.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

That's a good first step - first the MV-22 then the rest of the US war machine!

Sixty-five years after the end of the war, U.S. bases still occupy 10% of the Okinawan islands and more than 18% of Okinawa’s main island alone. Thanks to Okinawans’ efforts to achieve self reliance, only about 5% of its economy depends on the U.S. bases, down by two-thirds from the level in 1972 when Okinawa was returned to Japan.

Some people say "but the Marines are here to protect the Japanese from an invasion!" Huh? Who is the USA "protecting" the people Japan from? It is more likely that the USA is protecting its own (economic interests). Japan (as opposed to the USA) doesn't have any enemies, so any so-called "protection rationale" is pretty much a moot point.

In a poll conducted 2 years ago, 43% of the Japanese population was in favor of the complete closure of the bases while 42% wanted reduction.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Hearing Yubaru say things is like hearing a mobster bark back at people who are demanding immediate vacation of the land his syndicate has illegally occupied for so long (67 years!). The mobster says, "We will vacate the land only if its eplacement is provided. Otherwise, we won't return it because it means you guys 'have a cake and eat it too.' That's not a fair trade."

Using your analogy here, take a look at the Japanese government and how it handles it's own "mobsters" (yakuza). They allow them to exist because they provide a service that the government can not give nor provide it's own people.

After reversion the US were and are invited guests who provide a service the Japanese government CAN NOT provide on their own under the current Japanese constitution.

The US Military are invited here, and until the day comes that the NATIONAL GOVERNMENT here decides that they are no longer necessary things will pretty much stay the way they are, like it or not.

However if the Japanese government ever makes the choice to request the US Military leave, then so be it, have them leave. Until then Okinawan politicians need to learn to negotiate like adults and not continually talk out of both sides of their mouths. Take the base away, but give us the money!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

In a poll conducted 2 years ago, 43% of the Japanese population was in favor of the complete closure of the bases while 42% wanted reduction.

Which means 67% of the population wants the bases here and 68% are against reduction.

Polls can be read many different ways.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Yubaru There's the facade and there's reality.

Facade: We are invited here....sure.....whatever.

Reality: We are needed here cause America does not forget history. Before you attacked Pearl Harbor you were acting like you were interested in peace. Then you used that backstab technique on innocent families on a Sunday.

You keep your friends close but you keep your enemies closer.

Now we'll have lunch together. Do festivals together. Help each other when our nations have disasters. We'll do all the usual things that good hard working people do. However when we bow we'll always keep our eyes open with you.

Now lets get back to our facade. The Osprey is a superior aircraft that is part f the Marines mission in defending your beautiful country against those that you wronged in the past. All those in favor of this in Tokyo say "I". IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Very well. Okinawa is part of Japan and is NOT a sovereign nation it will comply. We love Okinawa and although it behaves like a child talking back to it's parents. We will do what is in the best interest of the home. The Ospreys are coming.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Which means 67% of the population wants the bases here and 68% are against reduction.

You seem to be forgetting the % of people who were indifferent/couldn't respond, but whatever.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

YuriOtani, when you say:

it is our island the entire island

Are you referring to the island being Japan's (who's central government doesn't seem hugely concerned with getting rid of the US forces in Okinawa), or being the Okinawan government's?

Also, Clemens Simon - I've been looking for economic figures for Okinawa for a while for something I was writing, and couldn't find anything. Could you post up your source so I can see where the other 95% of Okinawa's economic wealth comes from? I am imagining tourism and awamori sales, but would love to see evidence. Thanks in advance :)

2 ( +4 / -2 )

You seem to be forgetting the % of people who were indifferent/couldn't respond, but whatever.

No I didn't, like I said polls can be read in many different ways and can not be used accurately without providing the source of who took the poll in the first place.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Remember these "invited guests" were originally dreadful intruders and illegal occupiers of the land? "Guests" and "good neighbors" are the nice words Pentagon spin doctors created to call these uninvited guests. You claim they were "invited" by the Japanese government. Officially and superficially, maybe so. But we all know that "invitation" was forced upon one weak party by the other powerful one.

Let's not go off the track. Concentrate your argument on Futenma and the Osprey deployment issues. And the Marines, too. Are they "necessary evils" that must stay in Okinawa?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Wiki:

The United States has a number of bases on Okinawa which are financially supported by the U.S. and Japan. They provide jobs for Okinawans, both directly and indirectly. However they only account for 4 or 5% of the economy nowadays

In 1995, the revenues from the bases included $500 million from land leased to the bases, $400 million from local civilian employment on the bases, and another $400 million from direct consumption by military personnel and their dependents. Clearly, base revenues effect Okinawa's economy less significantly than before, especially since the bases now employ only 8,200 local citizens, down from 40,000 earlier.

soldave: this link might be of interest to you re: tourism http://www.spf.org/yashinomi/pdf/pacific/economic/kakazu02.pdf

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Readers, please post your opinions on the topic rather than just quoting Wikipedia.

Why does the US keep trying to make China the enemy?

It isn't.

There is no need to protect Japan from China. China is a trading country that would lose much more if it committed an act of aggression than it could ever gain.

The US military is not required anywhere in Japan. Particularly in Okinawa where the space is at a premium.

Time to go home, guys!

Bye!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Oh geez.....If Japanese REALLY cared about Okinawa so much why not give it back to Okinawans?

Sounds really silly to me....

Japan: "We occupied it first...give it back!"

As an American living in Japan. I could really care less if all military bases closed down. Actually I wish they were so that we didn't have such a huge military budget.

To the above posters who think it's Americans who villainize China perhaps you should be looking to your fellow countrymen. Particularity the dinosaur running(ruining) Tokyo.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@YuriOtani WHAT??? I almost fell out of my chair when I read you comment! "it is our island the entire island. It does not belong to the USA and WWII is no excuse." JAPAN STOLE THAT ISLAND! Okinawa used to be its own country, culture and language. Japan came and tried ERADICATE everything on the island and make it Japanese. They OUTLAWED anything Okinawa. If you live there, how do you know this. They only have about 12 museums talking about this. Okinawa is part of JAPAN becuase the USA and ALLIES LET THEM HAVE IT becuase they needed an ally in the Pacific to help fight the spread of commusin across asia. (the same reason war crimes trials in Japan where either overlooked, rushed through, or hushed up)

Okinawa is the ONLY place in ALL of Japan where the history book and museams dont lie and people have a true understand of the realities of Japan and war. "it belongs to us" omg!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

All readers back on topic please. Posts that do not focus on the Osprey deployment will be removed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Let them come it will be cool to see

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yubaru:

No I didn't, like I said polls can be read in many different ways and can not be used accurately without providing the source of who took the poll in the first place.

The poll was taken by the Yomiuri Shimbun.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I want to see the Ospreys in Japan. It will be so cool when they have an air show.

The young Japanese boys will be like: Okasan!! Okasan!!! Mite!!! Nani sore? Hikoki desu ka? *Translation: Son, that's not a plane or a helicopter. It's both!!! Kakoii!! Yes, son, it's very cool. Oh look here comes the pilot in his helmet. The boys runs up to the pilot looking up....excited to see a high tech pilot. Pilot opens his sun visor = American man, statuesque, handsome, and cool. Pilot: Hello these!! Here's a Hershey bar for you!! And a die-cast Osprey model.

Son: Does Japan have cool planes like that? Mother: I'm afraid not son. But someday America will sell them to us. Maybe you might be an Osprey pilot. Son: Cool, as he starts to open the Hershey bar. Too bad daddy's not here. Mom: Daddy has a party with his coworkers tonight. I'll brb. I want to speak to the American pilot. Wait here and eat your Hershey bar.

I kid, I kid. The Osprey is really cool. Just wait till you see it. It defies logic.

Someday we will have our flying aircraft carrier.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

plasticmonkeyJun. 20, 2012 - 10:00AM JST

I'm sure the type of plane that Nakaima flew on to Tokyo has a crash history. All planes do. What "proof" would satisfy these people? None. Using the issue of safety is simply another political move to oppose any US military presence in Okinawa. Would the locals prefer the Marines use outdated helicopters? Nakaima is not really interested in safety, he's interested in kicking the Americans out.

I think that they simply don't understand or care for the difference between failure and failure rate. The MV-22, though renown for it's failures, is actually safer than helicopters when operating at over 1600 feet (below that too in airplane mode or if the pilot is smart enough to scuttle the blades and glide). In fact, the SH-60 that both the Navy and JSDF use have dozens more crashes, especially non-fatal ones, than the MV-22.

These politicians and local residents are almost beyond hope in seeing the dangers of NOT switching to MV-22. The Marines (the reason it's Mv-22 rather than CV or something else) got the MV-22 because it is a huge improvement over not only the CH46, but also the CH53 type chopper that crashed in Okinawa. Higher operating altitudes also reduce noise pollution to neighboring towns. But of course, they won't ever do the research to see that, given the fact that the US has a 99 year lease on the base and isn't going anywhere, the MV-22 will benefit them much more.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

You can ask but he has no say in the matter.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

NetNinja

Reality: We are needed here cause America does not forget history. Before you attacked Pearl Harbor you were acting like you were interested in peace. Then you used that backstab technique on innocent families on a Sunday.

You keep your friends close but you keep your enemies closer.

Now we'll have lunch together. Do festivals together. Help each other when our nations have disasters. We'll do all the usual things that good hard working people do. However when we bow we'll always keep our eyes open with you.

If that is the mentality of the US forces in Japan then I don't know what to say. I'm shocked... though I don't suppose I should be.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

If the Okinawa Governor is REAL SERIOUS about reducing US military bases, he should order that no electricity, water, and other utilities service will be provided to the bases. GOVERNOR, DO YOU WANT TO KICK THE US MILITARY OUT OF OKINAWA OR ARE YOU JUST MAKING SPEECHES?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Let's not go off the track. Concentrate your argument on Futenma and the Osprey deployment issues.

FYI You started it I just replied. This isnt about Futenma right now, just the Osprey, as as noted by other posters as well the benefits of having the Osprey over the aging fleet of helicopters outweighs any arguments regarding safety issues that anyone can make.

No aircraft is completely safe, civilian or military, and as also noted, deploying the Osprey WILL reduce noise problems and safety concerns in the long run. Futenma isn't really on the table this time.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Thunderbird2 (Jun. 20, 2012 - 04:04PM JST),

Don't be shocked. Netninja is speaking his mind out. He's telling the truth. The U.S. military presence is for keeping the genie out of the bottle. The genie is of course Japanese militarism that did "a back stab on the U.S. on a sunny Sunday in 1941," to quote Netninja.

Now, you can understand why the U.S. wants to maintain this excessive military presence in Japan. It's not North Korea nor China but ultimately Japan itself that is the reason for keeping the forces in Japan (45 thousand troops, plus 55 bases in mainland Japan and 33 in Okinawa). And the Osprey is the newest addition to the U.S. arsenal, although Washington's policy makers keep saying the U.S. military presence is for the defense of Japan, thus cunningly extorting 75% of base maintenance cost from Japanese taxpayers.

Something is absolutely wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

"Ours not to reason why, ours but to do or die."

This is the military viewpoint.

"Obey!"

"Our commander says deploy Ospreys, so we deploy them!"

We don't need Ospreys.

We don't need US bases.

We certainly don't need "protection!"

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Osprey GOOD! Blind dissent BAD!!!

Go back, read, study and learn the facts on the safety of flight and then return to the ring. Flying in ANY aircraft, military or commercial, is safer than driving. PERIOD. Safer means for those in the plane as well as those under it. And when the flight hours per "incident" are reviewed the Osprey is MUCH safer than the existing helo`s. The drivelers and drones are just trying to keep the drum beating. FADING Fading fading fad fa f....

0 ( +2 / -2 )

And the beat goes on!

To answer the question, YES! Simplest response; NK missles are not just pointed at but have been LAUNCHED at, over and around Japan. FACT that is indisputable!

And with China barking at the Senkaku's.. OH WAIT that is now going to be Tokyo and not Okinawa. My bad!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The Osprey, to me it is just another aircraft. The Americans will bring it to Okinawa and fly it regardless of what the local people want. Then they will fly it without regard to the population and perhaps history will repeat itself. Another military aircraft crashing into a school. Then you will see what Americans really think about Okinawa people. First they will restrict the area to only Americans. Then they will hold the bodies of the deceased until their investigation is done. They might even hold up rescue work in the name of security. I bring this up since the Osprey is a lot like the F 100 Sabre. It was the type that crashed into the elementary school in Ishikawa. Out of a total of 2294 produced 889 were lost in accidents. I saw one crash myself at Tyndall AFB. It was a QF-100 being test flown before being used as a target. The pilot was great getting it to go into the river before ejecting at a very low altitude. My point is once again the Americans are bringing in another troublesome aircraft to be based in Okinawa. I pray that history does not repeat itself.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The United States Governent, will do what they believe to be in the best interest's of it's Military. Don't be so quick to blame the U.S. for everything. Every nation does it...some better than others. There are no rights involved here, the US can meddle in any other countries domestic affairs if they have the power to. If that country can't stop them, it is there own fault for being weak. By interfering the American government has earned a bad name for its people and country. If it wants to last a little longer as a super power it must learn to respect other countries' sovereignty. Otherwise it will meet a fate similar to the Soviet Union. The Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey is the first aircraft designed from the ground up to meet the needs of the Defense Department's four U.S. armed services. The residents of Okinawa will find this out sooner or later. I have the highest respect for Okinawa. Shotokan karate taught me to have this. Prayer's and my thoughts go out to you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The Osprey being deployed is an improvement overall in comparison to the helicopters currently stationed on Futenma.

Eventually people will see them at Kadena too!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Going back to the Osprey the Governor of Okinawa has asked that this aircraft not be deployed. The Americans will ignore him just like they ignore the other elected officials. They took these bases at the point of a gun and I think the other treaties were the same. It was sign the peace treaty or be shot. Anyhow deploying these aircraft against the will of the people and government of Okinawa is what gets the Americans in trouble. It is an arrogance I know so well.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Until the national government itself makes any inquiries, requests, or demands, through the proper diplomatic and military channels there is nothing that can be done. All the gov. can do now is wait to see what actions the government takes in regard to this situation.

Japanese of all people should understand the importance of hierarchy and going through channels to get things done.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

YuriOtani

I bring this up since the Osprey is a lot like the F 100 Sabre. It was the type that crashed into the elementary school in Ishikawa. Out of a total of 2294 produced 889 were lost in accidents.

How exactly is the Osprey like the F-100 a 1950's era jet? You are comparing apples to oranges there. A modern state of the art aircraft being compared to a early model jet aircraft. Yeah good comparison.

My point is once again the Americans are bringing in another troublesome aircraft to be based in Okinawa. I pray that history does not repeat itself.

So you would rather the USMC keep using the CH-46's that they have been using for the past decades would you. Just out of curiosity how many of them have crashed or had accidents? In excess of 25 between 1972 and 2000 and that is just on Okinawa. Compare that to 7 crashes worldwide for the MV-22, big difference isnt there Yuri.

So it sounds like you are getting a new modern safer replacement for an aging troubled aircraft and you are still complaining.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Cletus there were 524 produced and I bet they fly more hours. The frog has undergone a number of upgrades since being introduced. About the comparison the F 100 was a troublesome aircraft. The Osprey is a troublesome aircraft. One of the crashes was in front of a delegation of US Congressmen.

You miss the point America should follow the wishes of the Okinawa people. Try to convince them the aircraft is safe. Just because you can get away with something does not mean you have the high moral ground.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

We've been asking for an all-out removal of Futenma. So it's outrageous that the Marines plan to deploy the Osprey there. How arrogant, outrageous, egoistic and violent they are!. It's absolutely nonsense to say the Ospreys have a safer flight record than CH-46 helos.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

voiceofokinawa

But, don't you feel safe knowing that the US military is here to protect you?

China is beefing up her armed forces, just waiting for a weakness in the defense and they will strike!

Just one North Korean rocket could destroy all of Tokyo, Chiba, Yokohama and Saitama!

It is such a dangerous environment. Terrorists are everywhere.

Let them deploy Ospreys or whatever they want!

We are safe because we are protected by the land of the free!

Excuse me while I vomit.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

I wonder what the United States Empire's ultimate goal is...

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

We've been asking for an all-out removal of Futenma. So it's outrageous that the Marines plan to deploy the Osprey there. How arrogant, outrageous, egoistic and violent they are!. It's absolutely nonsense to say the Ospreys have a safer flight record than CH-46 helos.

You really need to focus your attention in the right place if this is what you want. The Japanese government.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

This never would've happened if they'd just renamed it the Cosprey.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

NetNinjaJun. 20, 2012 - 10:49AM JST

Reality: We are needed here cause America does not forget history. Before you attacked Pearl Harbor

You keep your friends close but you keep your enemies closer.

@NetNinja, very well said.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

johninnaha

I'm confounded with you. How do you coordinate your previous posts (20, 2012 - 07:45AM JST, Jun. 20, 2012 - 12:11PM JST, Jun. 20, 2012 - 12:11PM JST) with your Jun. 21, 2012 - 11:55AM JST post?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Yubaru (Jun. 21, 2012 - 12:57PM JST),

It's the U.S. government that holds the key to solving the Osprey deployment issue and the overall the Futenma issue, not the Japanese government. Japan is America's faithful vassal country, never acting against its master. If Washington commands, "Right turn," it does so. If Washington commands, "About face," it does so. Yubaru must know this fact well enough. So he tells us to take our complaint to Tokyo, "the right place," according to him. No, no, we all know who the real commander is. So our complaint about this excessive U.S. military presence must be lodged directly against Washington first and foremost.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

globalwatcher (Jun. 21, 2012 - 02:21PM JST),

NetNinja said on his post (Jun. 20, 2012 - 10:49AM JST) that although the facade of the U.S. presence in Japan is "by invitation," the reality is that "We are needed here cause America does not forget history. Before you attacked Pearl Harbor you were acting like you were interested in peace. Then you used that backstab technique on innocent families on a Sunday."

NetNinja further says, "You keep your friends close but you keep your enemies closer. " Who are your close friends and who are your closer friends?

Globalwatcher applauds such thinking loudly, by saying, "NetNinja, very well said."

What a world!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Correction:

NetNinja further says, "You keep your friends close but you keep your enemies closer. " Who are your friends who you keep close and who are your enemies who you keep closer?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

How do the lyrics to that song go again? "You can't always get what you want?"

YuriOtani: So a few days ago in the landmark Osaka ruling giving custody to the American father you were all on about Japan (as a whole) vs. the US, and now it's back to the 'The Japanese gov't is pooping on us', 'They're OUR (Okinawans') islands', and 'the US should leave' rant again?

Yuri, the US is there to stay and protect you, despite a very small number of Americans whining about them being their (until a Chinese sub passes by or their military budget is revealed) and many more than them making money of the bases? What's more, this isn't ABOUT the bases, it's about the Ospreys that WILL be deployed there despite yet more Okinawan Governor whining. In any case, next time you see an American soldier be sure to thank them for protecting you.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

voiceofokinawa: "Question 1. Is this the reason why the U.S. must maintain this excessive military presence in Japan?"

Yes, for YOUR protection, whether you want to admit it or not.

"Question 2. Or is this the reason why the U.S. must maintain this excessive military presence in Japan?"

There's no question part of why they're there is because of it's strategic position to China and North Korea, but if you think that's the only reason you're kidding yourself as badly as you would be if you thought those countries were only enemies with the US. If not for the US presence you'd probably already be Chinese territory, same as the US presents somewhat of a deterrent against North Korea attacking the south (although the South is MUCH more capable of defending itself, it would lose Seoul in an instant and it would be a bitter war with the size of NK's military on the ground).

0 ( +2 / -2 )

" No, no, we all know who the real commander is. So our complaint about this excessive U.S. military presence must be lodged directly against Washington first and foremost.

Not that the US government is much better, but I would say that at least if the true leaders of Japan is the US, then please ask them to get rid of AKB48 too when you make your request about the bases.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

johninnaha

I'm confounded with you. How do you coordinate your previous posts (20, 2012 - 07:45AM JST, Jun. 20, 2012 - 12:11PM JST, Jun. 20, 2012 - 12:11PM JST) with your Jun. 21, 2012 - 11:55AM JST post?

Sarcasm!

Didn't it come across?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

johninnaha,

Now, I've got it.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

smithinjapan.

I asked the two questions of globalwatcher, not you. Why doesn't globalwatcher come forward and answer the questions himself? I assume it's because he found he had fallen into sheer contradiction. You can't answer the questions, especially the second one.

Smithinjapan tried to answer it, but his is completely off the track.

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Readers, please keep the discussion civil.

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I am from Yamaguchi-ken (prefecture) which toppled Shogunate and performed Meiji Resotration (ishin) in 1868. I am not from Okinawa (Ryukyu) prefecture. Just a history buff has been living USA for many years. I am going to write about Okinawa around during WW II and after that in several comments, First, Battle of Okinawa: about one fourth of Okinawan people were killed. In 1945 when USA finally defeated Japan, Okinawan people went welcome USA. What did they get? These people, including children were shot. USA force mistook as an attacker, even though it was clear they were not armed, In summer clothes. In 1872, finally Okinawa was returned to Japan. 27 years under US administration. There had been too many accidents and crime against Okinawan people by US service men, In 1995, a 12 year old girl was mass raped by US servicemen. Finally, big protests all over. Next... Their unique culture.

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Original Okinawan language has trace of Chinese, Thai, and Austronasian. Then Japanese had been mixed after Shimazu clan of Kyushu annexed Ryukyu Kingdom. ... Karate ... Karate is well known in the world, In comics, movies, and physical exercises. Karate was originated in Okinawa, mixed with Tai-chi, later. Alcohol - Awamori. Famous music instrument - Sanshin went to China, Japanese copied as Shamisen, (Three string instruments - See? Japanese are good in copycatting ad changing - You see in computer and TV world and automotive indusgtry).

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US protection of Japan or protecting USA from Japan: Sometime ago, Governor Mitt Romney commented that most dangerous enemy to USA is Russia. The Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton, just said that USA hast to worry about Iran and she shrugged of Romney's comment. Some people maybe thinking that USA is protecting Japan from Russian attack, As for China, USA has been borrowing $$$$ from China. Then Korea? No, So. Korea is not going to attack Japan even though So. Korea has grudge against Japan so many years. No, Korea? It get food aid frome everywhere. China attacks Japan? There is no chance China will attack Japan unless Japan attack China. Japanese Self Defense Forces haven't been trained to attack China or any other countries. However, older Americans never forgot Kamikaze pilots attack on Hawaii. What kind of attack Japan will do against USA? While some Americans are worried about another attack bu Japan, Japanese giant manufacturers have already invaded USA. When mentioning of foreign automobile makers, reporters had a good laugh for a week. USA lawmakers said American auto makers such as Toyota ship cars from Kentucky to Korea. Another one when asked to name US auto makers, Nissam Honda, etc came out. Not only that, Sony, Toshiba, etc are considered American companies. Toshiba owns General Electric.

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Tokyo is missing the Okinawans' point. Okinawa do not need the US bases. If Japan need the US bases, Tokyo can close the Okinawa bases and distribute the US forces into the other mainland US and SDF bases. Like I said before, if the Governor of Okinawa has balls, he would order all utilities to the bases shut off.

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My friend in Florida informed me that USAF CV-22 crushed Eglin Air Force Base in Florida.

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The crush of of an mv-22 in April was in Morocco. Florida crush was on June 13 this year. A few days ago from today. Scary. Maybe Tome magazine was correct when it stated that 'unsafe, overpriced (by Boeing and Bell), completely inadequate'?

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I wrote about a brief history of Okinawa, culture, what is going around regarding Okinawa, etc. My comments were deleted. Maybe because comments inckuded

My comments regarding Ryukyu kingdom, maybe I wrote 1/4 of Okinawans dead during WW II, maybe because I wrote US servicemen raped a 16 years old girl, maybe I wrote karate, Samisen instruments origined by Okinawan, I don't know. Even my comments were omitted, read more detailed stories about Okinawa by WikiPedia before anyone who criticize Okinawa people's feelings. If a mainland Japanese like I have feelings on Ryukyu people, you will understand that. Also, from home page, read LV Review Journal to know more about American people's dilemma, please.

Moderator: Your comments were deleted because they didn't focus on the Osprey.

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Tom: "Okinawa do not need the US bases. If Japan need the US bases, Tokyo can close the Okinawa bases and distribute the US forces into the other mainland US and SDF bases."

Sorry, my friend, but you're missing the point -- unless you think Okinawa is not part of Japan. The bases are already there, no? So why should they pick them up because a few Okinawans don't want them (while many do!) and move them to another place where some won't want them? I agree that Okinawa is treated like crap, and always has been, by the central government, but given that Okinawa is part of Japan, the central government has control over it, like it or not.

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voiceofokinawa: "Smithinjapan tried to answer it, but his is completely off the track."

Actually, I was 100% on track, thank you. You just don't like the answers. But you never will, I'm afraid. If the US is there defending you you have something to deflect anger at; if they leave you have something to deflect anger at (when China and NK start rattling sabers). Seems you just want to be upset at anything outside of the real problems at hand.

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smithinjapan (Jun. 22, 2012 - 05:38PM JST)

Let me recap what NetNinja said.

He said, "There's the facade and there's reality. Facade: The U.S. military presence in Japan, however excessive it may be, is due to Japan's 'invitation'. Japan invited the U.S. What's wrong with it? Reality: The U.S. military presence is necessary if history can be a teacher. Japan attacked the U.S. in a back-stabbing manner on December 8 (Japan Time), 1941. So, 'Remember Pearl Harbor'."

He then goes on to say, "You keep your friends close but you keep your enemies closer." In other words this large military presence (No, it's not large enough, says Washington) is for watching Japan with vigilance.

Maybe, NetNinja can explain it better than I.

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All readers stay on topic please. The subject is the Osprey.

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