politics

Opposition steps up battle in Diet against 'conspiracy bill'

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I think this is trying to read like it's a real debate and being discussed and thought about by the nation. Its written similarly in Japanese as well, but the fact of the matter is, the other parties do not have the seats to stop the LDP.

Their discussions are just talking about a few points on TV then usually the motion goes through, or is delayed but is set to pass on.

This will pass through with little opposition.

Loss of freedom from next year and I'm supposed to believe it's because of the Olympics?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

The chairman is "seeking to ram through a bill that could threaten freedom of thought without sufficient debate," it said.

That's the whole idea!

It won't be stopped. The opposition is toothless and the people (if given the chance) will always nicely do as 'suggested'.

Japan once again showing that democracy and freedom are not welcome here.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

State Secrets, State Security, Conspiracy...what the next one? Conscription?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It's no good whining about the chairman when your party is so useless it couldn't even field candidates in every seat during the last elections.

How about highlighting limited aspects of the conspiracy bill and giving examples where ordinary persons would come under investigation? Force the LDP to answer specific points, instead of letting them get away with blanket denials.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

This durn conspiracy bill has been "debated" for like 15 years. It is time for an up or down vote and the demand for "debate" is really better described as a Japanese version of the filibuster - keep nitpicking unproductively until the Diet session ends.

People who are interested in the issue might look up a certain article called "Criminal Conspiracy Law in Japan" by a Chris Coulson. Though it is published in 2007 (Michigan Journal of International Law), the law's basics hadn't changed that much and it represents a third-party view from someone who at least studied law professionally.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Opposition steps up battle in Diet against 'conspiracy bill'

Give them hell guys!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Anything goes in the War on Terror

0 ( +0 / -0 )

thepersoniamnow Today 07:12 am JST

I think this is trying to read like it's a real debate and being discussed and thought about by the nation. Its written similarly in Japanese as well, but the fact of the matter is, the other parties do not have the seats to stop the LDP.

It seems parliamentary debate is something new to you. In UK, in Japan or wherever, the minority parties do not have enough seats to stop the ruling party. Yet, the debate is important process in democracy.

Kazuaki Shimazaki Today 12:06 pm JST

This durn conspiracy bill has been "debated" for like 15 years. It is time for an up or down vote

According to the article, the decision has been made 3 times in the 15 years.

Three similar bills have failed to pass the Diet due to such concerns.

Scrote Today 10:07 am JST

It's no good whining about the chairman when your party is so useless it couldn't even field candidates in every seat during the last elections.

Japan has multi-party system. Oppositions make coalitions in some of the districts to avoid splitting votes. It is nothing wrong.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

One must make a distinction between real parliamentary debate and using it as a substitute for a filibuster when you don't have nearly enough votes. As you mention, this basic bill has been on on-and-off for the past fifteen years. Every concern has either been addressed as much as possible or not addressed at all. At some point, you have to realize the bill isn't going to get any "better" and at that point it is actually abuse of the process to just keep demanding more "debate".

As for the merits of the case, the fact is that the Japanese government is correct as to the requirements of the international convention they signed up to and ratify and the concerns of the opposition are at best just that, Potential concerns.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki Today 01:32 pm JST

As for the merits of the case, the fact is that the Japanese government is correct as to the requirements of the international convention

No. http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/gaiko/treaty/pdfs/treaty156_7c.pdf

United Nations Convention

against Transnational Organized Crime

Article 5 Criminalization of participation in an organized criminal group

Each State Party shall adopt such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to establish as criminal offences, when committed intentionally:

(a) Either or both of the following as criminal offences distinct from those involving the attempt or completion of the criminal activity:

(i) Agreeing with one or more other persons to commit a serious crime for a purpose relating directly or indirectly to the obtaining of a financial or other material benefit and, where required by domestic law, involving an act undertaken by one of the participants in furtherance of the agreement or involving an organized criminal group;

(ii) Conduct by a person who, with knowledge of either the aim and general criminal activity of an organized criminal group or its intention to commit the crimes in question, takes an active part in:

a. Criminal activities of the organized criminal group;

b. Other activities of the organized criminal group in the knowledge that his or her participation will contribute to the achievement of the above-described criminal aim;

Japan needs to criminalize either (i) or (ii) of article 5. To criminalize (i), Japan needs to criminalize conspiracy. But Japan can satisfy treaty requirements by criminalizing (ii) which it already has.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

As much as I hate to say this, the sad truth is that the ruling coalition will ignore what the opposition has to say, and they will also ignore what the people have to say.

They'll ram that bill through, and it'll be law, and we gradually lost more freedom.

The Japanese people had the chance to stop Abe and his cronies from cementing their claim to power, and hardly anyone voted. This government is only interested in tightening it's grip around the necks of the taxpayer.

But hey, in a few weeks, everyone will forget about and everything will be fine... Right? Right?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki Today 01:32 pm JST

To add to my previous comment, read paragraphs 48 to 51 on page 21 and 22 of "legislative guide for the implementation of the United Nations convention against transnational organized crime".

https://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/legislative_guides/02%20Legislative%20guide_TOC%20Convention.pdf

The guide clearly explains that criminalizing conspiracy is only one option out of two ways to satisfy treaty requirements.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Criticism from UN were distorted in Japan by Abe government and bureacrats with some mainstream media.

Public broadcast NHK avoid to broadcast deliberations about conspiracy bill at The Diet.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@CH3CHO Today 04:20 pm JST

The guide clearly explains that criminalizing conspiracy is only one option out of two ways to satisfy treaty requirements.

Yes, it is permissible to substitute a law for criminal association. However, as to whether Japan already has one of those is very questionable. Sure, it does have 組織的な犯罪の処罰及び犯罪収益の規制等に関する法律, but right now it only covers a fairly limited range of crimes - 15 in Article 3 (of which 4 of them cannot be punished for Attempt and only 2 are punishable for Preparation), 1 each in Article 7, 9 and 10. That's quite far from penalizing not only participation in "criminal activities of the organized criminal group" but "other activities" that will contribute to criminal actions.

Further, we are still left with the problem of defining the "criminal group" and this is much more expansive than the conspiracy bill now rumbling through the Diet, with any "activity" being criminalized.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki Today 01:32 pm JST

the fact is that the Japanese government is correct as to the requirements of the international convention

So, you now agree that Japanese government is NOT correct as to the requirements of the international convention. That is a step forward.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@CH3CHO Today 06:35 pm JST

So, you now agree that Japanese government is NOT correct as to the requirements of the international convention. That is a step forward.

What statement exactly are you claiming they are wrong on anyway? They claim they need this bill to meet the requirements of CATOC, and they are essentially correct. The fact that they can in theory make a criminal association bill that's just as problematic does not change that. Further, according to Coulson:

Without a great deal of debate, Japan's Ministry of Justice, Japan's Diet, and Japanese media have focused on the common law conspiracy prong of CATOC's group criminality requirement, leaving the crime of association with a criminal group aside.

The option of using a criminal association bill had not really been on from the start.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@CH3CHO

Debate is not something new to me actually, but perhaps English comprehension is likewise rather new to you as well?

I didn't say anything regarding the role of debate in democracy, on that I agree.

If you watch the debates, I am saying that they seem very much a formality. I get the feeling like they are going through the motions only and it will be strong armed through.

NHK and other major media outlets do not openly challenge or question the ruling party's intentions, or critically analyze the topics nearly enough for me. Since you defer to England, I'm sure you agree that a Parlimentary Debate there can be very robust.

It almost seems like they are massaging my mind to accept that this is all necessary for the Olympics and because of scary terrorism.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki June 7 07:17 pm JST

What statement exactly are you claiming they are wrong on anyway? They claim they need this bill to meet the requirements of CATOC, and they are essentially correct. 

They do not need the conspiracy bill to satisfy the treaty requirements, which you have already concurred.

Remember,

Kazuaki Shimazaki June 7 06:29 pm JST

Yes, it is permissible to substitute a law for criminal association.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@thepersoniamnow June 7 07:49 pm JST

If you watch the debates, I am saying that they seem very much a formality. I get the feeling like they are going through the motions only and it will be strong armed through.

I wouldn't go that far. The legislature is providing a check, as can be seen by the number of times similar bills have failed to pass and that the bills have been narrowed down with each revision. However, this time it is indeed likely to be a formality. How many times can you debate the same basic bill before all the substantive issues are rolled over?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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