politics

APEC summit ends with no communique as China, U.S. differ

43 Comments
By STEPHEN WRIGHT

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43 Comments
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And, as many of us predicted, tensions grow to dangerous levels and international relations decay in the Trump era...

1 ( +9 / -8 )

China needs America more than America needs China. Everything they make can be produced in another country for the same or lower cost.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

When two bullies meet it starts with who has the biggest britches, then a few chest bumps and suddenly fists fly. Meanwhile the rest of us duck for cover and hope we can live our lives in peace. Why are such leaders so concerned about their pantaloons and not those they proport to represent?

3 ( +7 / -4 )

China grew rapidly taking advantages of globalism copying and stealing foreign technologies. Until Trump became the president of the United States, no country pointed out the unfairness of the state controlled capitalism competing in world free market. The western countries wanting quick profits allowed China ride free of their system. China now is boasting the second big economy in the world. Do not let China expand their influences in the world. They only have money but their cultural level is low and their mentality anachronistic dreaming of "Great China." What has China contributed to the modern world?

2 ( +9 / -7 )

"No country either in this region or in other regions has fallen into a so called debt trap because of its cooperation with China. Give me one example," he said.

Hey Wang, how about Sri Lanka?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2018/06/28/china-is-doing-the-same-things-to-sri-lanka-great-britain-did-to-china-after-the-opium-wars/#5954c3967446

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Good to see America standing up to China. I don’t want the Chinese model taking over the world. Do you?

6 ( +9 / -3 )

The war already won before it started.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

So much China hate here, why ?. Just think how China grew, huge corporations worldwide deserted their own countries workforces for cheap labour, bigger profits for themselves and their shareholders. The excuses they gave varied from , unions, high labour costs ,lazy workforce, the list goes on. China welcomed them with open arms, and why not. How do you think Japan grew. So I don't think the negative rhetoric coming from politicians helps, notice how they don't condemn their own corporations of disloyalty. China has grown into a world power, and especially the US doesn't approve, for many reason. America is used to being the bully on the block, always getting its own way ,and when challenged, cries foul. Politicians look for any excuses for their own failures. The developed counties, hahahaha, that in itself is a joke, just look at all their problems, more people are living below the poverty line than ever before, homelessness , housing, infrastructure, and yet all the while spend billions of their wealth on military budgets, trying to establish a superior position in the world. Just look inward before spewing hate, and see what damage the politicians and corporations have done to you.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Exactly. It was the world's corporate greed that assisted China to grow powerful.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

that's why CPTPP was such a big deal, no China, no USA. No laggards. Therefore kick them out of APEC. Otherwise you just enable them

7 ( +7 / -0 )

PNG must be loving this....in the short term. How nice is it to have all these foreign countries offer to basically build your own country? Healthcare, schools, communications, electricity, roads, ports, on and on.....until it all has to be paid back. Then the party comes to an abrupt end.

The plan by both the U.S and its allies and China's new road plan are not freebies. They are loans, once again. The GDP of PNG is just $22 billion. And so now you have the U.S and its allies plus China offering financing that will approach $5 billion for sure. On top of already existing loans. That is the sort of "debt trap" that people are talking about.

From Australia's perspective and I imagine that of Timor and Indonesia, we would like to see PNG advance since it is a market of 8 million people and its always nice to see countries move forward, but I can't help but think PNG will face big budget problems in future. Out of all of PNG's relations, it is Australia that is now and historically has been the most important. Largest donor and import/export market at 30%.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"No country either in this region or in other regions has fallen into a so called debt trap because of its cooperation with China. Give me one example,"

There's Sri Lanka, as noted above and, soon, the Maldives. Didn't anyone at the news conference help to cure Mr Wang's ignorance?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The rogue state of the USA, the biggest bully of all. Pence speaking in tongues again.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Scrote, nations change as weather does. To use a natural oscillation to make a conclusion without knowing the pattern is amateurish. You shoot prematurely, to tell the truth.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

minello Before you spout more self loathing criticisms of the west you may wanna take a look at the practices and methods of the CCP and the social control systems they are designing to replace us with. If you want to live like a gagged fool unable to even mention certain blinding and inconvenient truths, then knock yourself out. Have been talking with a few Taiwanese coworkers who have friends living and working in China, they tell me that people over there simply don’t talk about sensitive or complicated issues. It’s taboo and dangerous, so they simply don’t discuss things openly or from different perspectives. This is what they deem as social harmony.

Know which team I’d rather be batting for.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Good on China. To stand up to a bully takes guts. But war is not the answer. We are all humans with the same blood.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

 I don’t want the Chinese model taking over the world. Do you?

Sadly, the Western globlist, free-marketeer elite is more than happy to. That's what's really scary, and why sensible people in the West can't allow a mercantlist communist dictatorship become the world's No. 1 economy.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Ricky Kaminski13, try to understand 1.4 billion Chinese based on a few "Taiwanese coworkers" is simply the stupid thing to do.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Good to see America standing up to China. I don’t want the Chinese model taking over the world. Do you?

Well, seeing that China doesn't export their way of government, nor do they have lots of strings attached to their deals, it's really no wonder why many countries are signing up with them.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

minello7Today  08:20 am JST

So much China hate here, why ?

You are living in a country where you can freely spout your personal views without fear of persecution or prosecution.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jun/29/the-great-firewall-of-china-xi-jinpings-internet-shutdown

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Shopenhauer

Everything you accuse China of was pioneered by Japan in the 1960s and 70s. It was copied and refined by S. Korea, speeding up the process, and then copied again more recently by China, speeding it up further.

This included state aid for big Japanese corporations combined with prohibitive input tariffs and cheap labour, with not a care for the environment. I remember the horrendous pollution in Tokyo when I first came in the 70s. There was a Japan-US trade war in the 80s with Toyota's getting smashed. Plus ça change...

It lifted Japan out of post-war poverty, followed by those Koreans and Chinese. That is a lot of people taken out of misery. The living standards in the West have not noticeably suffered over this period.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

happyhereToday  09:58 am JST

@Shopenhauer

Everything you accuse China of was pioneered by Japan in the 1960s and 70s. It was copied and refined by S. Korea,

Both Japan and South Korea are US Allies. Trade and economic issues are just that and no more. In contrast, China (People's Republic of China) is a trading partner but not an ally, rather a strategic adversary since it;s inception in 1949. Neither Japan nor South Korea had or has geopolitical goals that counter those of the United States.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

The two-day summit was punctuated by acrimony and also underlined a rising rivalry between China and the West for influence in the usually neglected South Pacific,

This is the crux of the problem, i.e the global battle for natural resources, strategically located military bases etc. Morrison, Abe, Trump/Pence and co are the Mick Leahy of the 21st century, investors/gold prospectors after PNG's resources. They couldn't care less about PNG ppl. A new form of colonialism.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Excellent job by Michael Pence to stand up to the bully China in the Summit. Pence will be a great US President in exactly 6 years. The big winner of this world trade war will be USA, Japan and Allies, with the auto and manufacturing industries set to boom. Communist China will be the big loser as more and more nations put on sanctions and refuse to trade with PRC. Chinas economy is shrinking rapidly

4 ( +9 / -5 )

China is a humble nation, resilient and pragmatic. China is the only nation on this planet to lift 1.2 billion people out of poverty in 40 years, 10 times of Japan. 40 years ago, Singapore, Taiwan, SK, and Japan were models for Chinese people, no bad mouthing, no envy, just examples, however different political systems were. Today, China is 2 times stronger than the four tigers combined. Call whatever you could about China, defame it, slander it, China is moving on, no barking, no arguing, just moving on.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

When every Chinese lives the same standard as Japaneses, China would be more than 10 times of Japan; when every Chinese lives the same standards as Americans, China would be 5 times of USA. Call that is not great. If the west doesn't want to trade with China, China can definitely live without the west. For 5000 years, China did exactly like that.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

You can’t land on the moon when controlling your citizens is the number one goal.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

The plan by both the U.S and its allies and China's new road plan are not freebies.

There has been no mention of these things being loans. From how it reads all over the net these things will be funded by the nations that have offered to build them.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

A new form of colonialism.

No, it's just the old colonialism in a new bottle. Let's not forget that just a few years ago Japanese troops were killing and eating "Australian and Indian soldiers as well as Asian forced labourers in New Guinea."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/japanese-troops-ate-flesh-of-enemies-and-civilians-1539816.html

Communist China will be the big loser as more and more nations put on sanctions and refuse to trade with PRC. Chinas economy is shrinking rapidly

As an Australian, aren't you concerned about the negative effect this will have on your economy?

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

It was not so long ago that Japan used to be called a copycat of everything Western. No longer. Maybe, China is now at the same stage of economic develpment as Japan was called an imitator.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

voiceofokinawaToday  10:53 am JST

It was not so long ago that Japan used to be called a copycat of everything Western. No longer. Maybe, China is now at the same stage of economic develpment as Japan was called an imitator.

The difference is that Japan did not copy things from the West through theft of ip. They bought and licensed. Nor did they ever become a world leader in counterfeiting foreign brand products.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

When every Chinese lives the same standard as Japaneses

In about 300 years time.

when every Chinese lives the same standards as Americans

In about 250 years time.

Call that is not great. If the west doesn't want to trade with China, China can definitely live without the west. For 5000 years, China did exactly like that.

China got left behind as the West advanced in trade and technology. China was left way behind and has spent many centuries playing catch up.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

OssanAmerica,

Like water flows from an upper source downwards, cultures flow from a higher plateau downward to a lower plain. Same with people's migration. That's how I see world economy and immigration issues.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Peter14, China, based on PPP, is already No 1, 25% more than USA. If China let the currency flow, China would be almost 2 times USA. If China continues its "slow economy", in 10 years, China will be double its GDP. If China put 100% tariff on all imports, it will make another 50% increase in GDP in 10 years. China can be very rich soon, and can be very selfish too.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

voiceofokinawa, you are not alone. Sun Tzu had the same view.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

In two more years, or less, the US should be able to return to a stable leadership.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Akie@ not forming my opinions based on a few coworkers at all, was just using them as a touchstone to hear what real people are experiencing on the ground. You may wanna ask the Uygurs in one of the many re-education camps how this humble, resilient and pragmatic nation is working out for them? Also may wanna check in with the sentiment of the neighboring countries as to what they think of the Chinese business model and practices, before you take the moral high ground and talk about progress. There’s a bunch of news channels and documentaries around dedicated to this very issue that may be worth having a look at.

OR

are we just vying for social credit points?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Ricky Kaminski13, a few more people perhaps from your sources of information, documentary, channels, News. How many Uygurs have you met, the real ones, not the faked ? Speaking about neighbours, just look at the real flows, the flow of people, not a flow of fake views, is it China the most visited nation on planet earth, and planet sun, plus the planet moon ?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

FYI

Japan started to play catch up since 1868, China started to play catch up since 1950

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Incomes in USD

Rank 1 Monaco yearly average income $186,080 monthly average income $15,507

Rank 9 United States Yearly average income $58,270 Monthly average income $4,856

Rank 14 Australia yearly average income $51,360 monthly average income $4,280

Rank 25 Japan yearly average income $38,550 monthly average income $3,213

Rank 45 China yearly average income $8,690 Monthly average income $724

https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php

Based on the above china is not number 1 and had a long long way to go. Still playing catch up.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

happyhereToday  09:58 am JST

No. It was pioneered from the west, mostly Germany and US that copied from the British, who was the first nation to be industrialized. It's fine, lessons were learned and rules were later made to protect IPs and everyone play by them..

What we are dealing with is the same old mercantilism that led to two world wars, the rising powers are challenging the established ones for market and resources domination.

However I think China is smart enough not to repeat the path that Japan and Germany walked, their end game is to end the status of the US dollar.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Rank 1 Monaco yearly average income $186,080 monthly average income $15,507

Rank 9 United States Yearly average income $58,270 Monthly average income $4,856

Rank 14 Australia yearly average income $51,360 monthly average income $4,280

Rank 25 Japan yearly average income $38,550 monthly average income $3,213

Rank 45 China yearly average income $8,690 Monthly average income $724

That's all very well but the cost of living in Australia is multiples of China, in fact, its multiples of the U.S in some instances. The same applies to all high income countries. High wages have to be paid for somehow.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Shopenhauer

what did you contribute to the modern world? lol

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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