Park says 'comfort women' issue central to summit with Abe

“For that to happen, more than anything, some kind of progress on the important issue of victims of the Japanese military comfort women (system) is essential,” Park was quoted as telling the Asahi in written replies to questions.

Well, if that is her stance, then Abe might as well cancel the bilateral summit. I mean, its not like he is prepared to "give" her anything on this point. Right? Seems to me this summit is all rather pointless if that is the way South Korea is approaching it.

Here we go again.

I disagree. The process is still important, if not just to show that the door is open to discussion on other matters. Closing off diplomacy is almost never a good idea.

Abe needs to tell Park quite clearly that "apologies have been made and compensation has been paid, the issue is closed. There are far more important, current, issues to discuss such as China and North Korea but if you can't see that then please don't waste my time, I have more important things to do".

The process is still important, if not just to show that the door is open to discussion on other matters. Closing off diplomacy is almost never a good idea.

No disagreement per se, but the problem is that this sounds like a precondition and/or a prejudgment on what will make the "summit" a "success". More importantly, one gets the sense that the Korean President is setting this up as a mechanism to score points domestically.

While I do not agree with Abe's stance on these things at all, I do think the statement from the Japanese spokesperson is exactly right.

“There are many difficult issues between our nation, but that should mean no conditions are put on a leaders’ meeting beforehand - as we have said repeatedly,” he added.

Karma sucks. Should have apologized when you had the chance. "Regrettable" is not an apology, it is a whine.

Harry_Gatto states...

Abe needs to tell Park quite clearly that "apologies have been made and compensation has been paid, the issue is closed.

Wrong! It is not up to the aggressor to say the issue is closed, it's up to those that have been wronged. Saying sorry must be heartfelt and using clear language. I understand, of course, that Abe and most Japanese had no involvement in those atrocities and so they should have no personal guilt but Japan should hold up its hands and say "What we did was terrible and we are sorry that some of our people committed those heinous crimes. That may or may not be enough but the issue is only closed when South Korea says it is.

This is all a smokescreen. They are negociating behind closed doors.

No dumbwit, a more pressing issue, for instance, would be North Korea.

And how the Beijing regime you kowtow too in exchange and its (not so) hard currency is providing support to its fanatical leader. That very country that could launch its waves of fanatical peasants soldiers against your capital, a mere 40 Km from your border, sending your country back to the sh*te hole it was once.

Now that's dealing with the important stuff, stupid woman.

Park says 'comfort women' issue central to summit with Abe

Absolutely. Let me just modify that headline. "Park says sex slaves issue central to summit with Abe"

Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Koichi Hagiuda told a news conference that Japan’s stance on the matter remains unchanged.

Looks like (somewhere soon) another "comfort woman" statue will be going up. LoL, and soon ordinary japanese citizens will feel like they're walking on eggshells whenever they travel abroad.

@johninjapan"Should have apologized when you had the chance"

Is is not about apology but a plain money extortion. The more apologies you bring, the more they will demand. Cheating a neighbour by any possible way is kind of usual business for Koreans.

"apologies have been made and compensation has been paid, the [comfort women] issue is closed."

@Harry_Gato

These sorts of issues are never "closed."

Legalized slavery in the U.S. ended around 1865, but the issue is still very open/alive. It is still actively discussed as part of school curriculum, by the media, by politicians, and among many in the general public, and commemorated by certain monuments and museums.

Recognition, and combating denial, is a never-ending process.

@Aly R This is all a smokescreen. They are negociating behind closed doors

I want to believe you're correct. There's far too much at stake for both sides now that each has a mature economy. They should be negotiating, and probably are, more substantial issues like security and trade, among many others.

From my perspective it's unfortunate that both need to appeal to their respective uber-nationalist constituencies, but that looks like a reality in Northeast Asian relationships.

I do think, though, that the aggressor, the invading nation, should always be the one that accepts and admits full responsibility for the problems they caused. And Japan was the invader.

It is still actively discussed as part of school curriculum, by the media, by politicians, and among many in the general public

This is true. Sensato makes an interesting point. In the US, it is taught (never denied).

Meanwhile, in japan, the "comfort women" issue is altogether deleted from school textbooks all the way up to politicians. Japanese ultranationalist deny they thing completely!

This is why young japanese who travel/study abroad are bewildered if the topic comes up.

In 1995, Japan created a fund to make payments to the women from donations, budgeted money for their welfare support and sent letters of apology from successive premiers.

Yeah, and Korea used the money for its infrastructure and didn't pass it on to the victims. I can understand the despair of Koreans with so many of the Japanese politicians downplaying the severity of the comfort women issue, but if there is to be progress in relations between these countries both sides will have to agree to disagree. Park should get herself a copy of Frozen and, "Let it go!" Tomorrow is more important than yesterday!

All negotiations between governments are held behind closed doors - otherwise, spin would be impossible. Both Abe and Park need to spin something for domestic consumption, but there's no give and take, so in the end they'll agree to disagree and call it mutual respect. Until they get back home, then they'll call it what they like...

SK said a week ago she put aside history and invited Abe to summit, and now immediately before the departure, Park says comfort women is the center issue. a typical Korean betraying tactics.

So why doesn't South Korea come up with a solution that would satisfy them instead of demanding Japan come up with it and then complain about everything Japan does?

In the second world war happened worst things and noone is asking for compensations. Much less too many years later.

park is right.

As much as Japan's leaders and educators need to own up to the comfort women issue, this demand coming from President Park seems extremely disingenuous in that she has never publicly denounced her father's role with the IJA (as far as I know).

If she is truly sincere about the importance of Japan admitting to and renouncing its past, she needs to do the same in terms of her own father, former SK President Park Chung-hee who actively served the IJA with distinction as a lieutenant in the Manchuko Imperial Army, using the name Minoru Okamoto. There was no arm twisting there, and it seems pretty certain that he would have had some involvement with comfort women while in that position.

I am not saying she should apologize for her father's role with the IJA, but she obviously has an obligation to own up to it by publicly renouncing his past. If she were to do that, I would come to see her concern about the comfort women issue as being much more sincere.

I don't understand why Abe even bothers. There's no point in attempting to have a constructive conference when one of the parties walks in with a huge chip on her shoulder.

Her father was an officer in the IJA, in the Kwantung Army killing Chinese and using the Comfort Stations. When is SHE going to apologize to the South Korean people? Then she can apologize for the South Korean government under her father's presidency that took the USD 800 million slated for INDIVIDUALS WHO SUFFERED like the Comfort Women, and instead of giving it to them as Japan wanted, spent it on other things and kept it a secret from the South Korean people. This woman epitomizes the two faced nature of this country, having the United States protect them from North Korea which is supported by China, while sucking up to China ad supporting their anti-US-Japan alliance agenda.

And Abe replied : "Why make something never happened a central issue?"

@Johnnie WalkerOCT. 31, 2015 - 08:49AM JST

Wrong! It is not up to the aggressor to say the issue is closed, it's up to those that have been wronged. Saying sorry must be heartfelt and using clear language. I understand, of course, that Abe and most Japanese had no involvement in those atrocities and so they should have no personal guilt but Japan should hold up its hands and say "What we did was terrible and we are sorry that some of our people committed those heinous crimes. That may or may not be enough but the issue is only closed when South Korea says it is.

Great idea Walker. By your theory, no issues will ever be closed because it is usually to the grieved's advantage to never fully close it.

The thing is, they have already agreed to close it in 1965. South Korea is just finding excuses to open it. This is in fact a treaty violation.

@Wc626OCT. 31, 2015 - 10:48AM JST

Meanwhile, in japan, the "comfort women" issue is altogether deleted from school textbooks all the way up to politicians. Japanese ultranationalist deny they thing completely!

It might have been taught in some form. Here are the facts of life though. The fact it is taught in Japan will mean it differs from how it is taught in Korea. Unfortunately, Korea is not mature enough to make this allowance - it is their way or no way. The West without knowing all that much supports them.

Really, every time I read the words "comfort women" or "sex slave", my impression of Korea goes down a notch.

Really, every time I read the words "comfort women" or "sex slave", my impression of Korea goes down a notch.

Every time people around the world hear sentences like that - especially from Japanese politicians - their impression of Japan goes down a notch.

This isn't only about Korea. How do you feel when, for example, Taiwanese use the words "comfort women"?

Klausdorth,

Wine and dine and get back to Japan ... that will be all that's going to happen.

JohninJapan:

Karma sucks. Should have apologized when you had the chance. "Regrettable" is not an apology, it is a whine.

So perhaps it's going to be whine and dine and get back to Japan :)

Anyway, Ms President Park is also hurting South Korea's standing with the US. Probably Abe is benefiting from all this. I think that Ms. Park is just using this to get votes. Don't worry about it and try to ignore her demand. She will of course not quit and this is for the worse for South Korea. I am a South Korean and I know this.

Good for her. All summits like these should highlight this fact, because the more it becomes public, the better chances the rest of the world knows what Japan really did, despite Japan being kept in the dark indefinitely. But it wouldn't hurt her to also address related historical issues about her father. Doing that would mostly gain her respect.

So perhaps it's going to be whine and dine and get back to Japan :)

SK is refusing lunch or dinner reception for Abe. So just whine and no dine.

In 1995, Japan created a fund to make payments to the women from donations, budgeted money for their welfare support and sent letters of apology from successive premiers.

Yeah, and Korea used the money for its infrastructure and didn't pass it on to the victims.

Disillusioned I think your confusing 1995 & 1965 above.

Look its true Japan paid $$ in 1965, so I think monetary compensation is DONE, finished. However on the history part Japan is a damned mess, mealy mouth "apologies " that were NOT apologies, politicians & many other public figures strongly denying common well know history, with of course abe being a prime current example that CLEARLY illustrates Japan is totally utterly UN-REPENTIVE wrt to WWII & especially its war crimes nto limited by any means tot he sex slaves.

Japan should MAN UP & admit its history or pay the consequences, simple as that, no $$$ needs to be involved.

abe is clearly NOT the man for this job he is simply a bold faced liar & a hypocrite of the highest order.

I hope Park holds her ground on the history issue minus any $$$. If abe shows up & isn't willing to do whats right send him home!

See the truth.

http://nadesiko-action.org/?page_id=8590

http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/130_S4.pdf

Park's father is a separate issue to the comfort women. Maybe she needs to apologize, maybe not, but that doesn't change Japanese responsibility for the comfort women whatsoever.

Abe would rather lose South Korea as an ally than admit that Japan had a comfort women system

@Sensato"her father's role with the IJA"

Korean politicians should really focus their attention on Koreans who used to serve in IJA. I read that Soviets did a very careful work in filtration camps located on Far East, searching for agents of IJA among Korean refugees. Those who had never collaborated with Japanese, later formed a political core of North Korean communist leadership.

Japan says the matter of compensation for the women was settled under the 1965 treaty setting diplomatic relations.

Okay. There is the intent being demonstrated and put in writing.

In addition, then-Chief Cabinet Secretary Yohei Kono apologized in a 1993 statement acknowledging authorities’ involvement in coercing them.

Right, that's the apology.

In 1995, Japan created a fund to make payments to the women from donations, budgeted money for their welfare support and sent letters of apology from successive premiers.

And the compo money. Kinda late in arriving, but still...

South Korea has said that was insufficient because it was not official.

Now what on Earth is that supposed to mean? So, we have a 1965 treaty; a 1993 apology from a senior cabinet member, and compensation in 1995 courtesy of the Japanese taxpayers.

THAT SOUNDS PRETTY OFFICIAL TO ME!

Park's father is a separate issue to the comfort women. Maybe she needs to apologize, maybe not, but that doesn't change Japanese responsibility for the comfort women whatsoever.

@Strangerland

I fully agree. Thumbs up.

I certainly don't mean to imply that Japan and its leaders coming to terms with past atrocities should in any way whatsoever be contingent on Park denouncing her fathers past misdeeds. Japanese leadership should take ownership of Japan's past, whether or not Park opts to do the same in terms of her own family's past.

What I am saying, though, is that if she chooses to be so adamant and vocal about forcing Japan to come to terms with its past, she should do the same. As it now stands, her demands seem very insincere and prompted by Machiavellian political expediency on her part, in an attempt to boost her own popularity and divert attention of Korean citizens away from problems at home. She is no better (or worse) than Abe in this regard.

Korea should spell out exactly what they want from Japan and lets get this 70+ year old issue finished.

It will take a grown up to stand up and say "listen, I'm sorry for what I did." And/or the other adult to say "OK. Let's put our differences to the side at least for the moment being, and focus on present matters (NK for example)."

If these leaders can't at least advance an inch towards better ties between nations they should just quit. Both of them, Abe and Park.

Abe would rather lose South Korea as an ally than admit that Japan had a comfort women system

Japan never denied comfor women system existed. Only saying the number was not big and they were not forced. They were prostitutes or sold by their parents. and were well paid.

"South Korea has said that was insufficient because it was not official."

Exactly. Until Japan puts an apology on record, and better yet, does not try and rescind previous personal apologies and claim the women were whores and the IJA gave them good jobs, it'll never be resolved. Nor should it be. Japan needs to hang it's head in shame on this issue, and it brought up on the world stage every chance it can be, forever, until they stop trying to bury it and/or deny it.

they were not forced. They were prostitutes or sold by their parents. and were well paid.

@tina

Sorry to break it to you, but any girl/woman who does not sell herself into prostitution but becomes one as a result of another person selling her is a sex slave (human trafficking 人身売買), even if the person doing the selling is her mom or dad. Selling another human is slavery and is illegal, even if it is your own child, and paying for services of another human who has been sold is also slavery and illegal.

Also, any person who has become a prostitute voluntarily and is not allowed to quit the job, but is forced to continue, is also a sex slave.

any person who has become a prostitute voluntarily and is not allowed to quit the job, but is forced to continue, is also a sex slave.

Then why don't you help 50,000 Korean prostitues working in Japan right now?

There are two ways to look at this:

One way is just to accept your Karma. Accept that you invaded nations and murdered millions, brutalized POWs, and forced the women of invaded people into being sex slaves to service your military. And having these truths reported is the price you have to pay for having done them.

The second way is to understand that as losers you have to accept the story that your victors impose, especially when it is true.

In either case, the wise thing to do is just shut up about it and stop making a big deal about it which just reminds your victims and your victors of your crimes.

@AN Other

Re the 1965 treaty, it seems that compensation was paid for forced labourers, but not for comfort women. Re the belated 1995 womens' fund, many rejected it because it wasn't official state compensation. Haruki Wada (the fund's director):

"It is true that it was not state compensation. Although the Japanese government spent lots of money on this, we were not able to give the impression that the government was taking full responsibility."

So that seems to explain why the issue of compensation rumbles on despite claims to it having been addressed. As for the Kono statement, again it wasn't an official state apology - see the views on it from Japanese right wingers who dismiss it as a personal apology which was a mistake and which has been twisted by Korea and which should be 're-examined'

I personally think that Japan should issue an official apology, indisputably from the government, and pay compensation (of the same amount as the Asian Womens Fund) directly to those women still alive (not only in Korea) who rejected the AWF; and then the whole thing would be finished. It wouldn't even be that hard to do.

@tina

or sold by their parents

This is a justification? If my parents had sold me into sex work, no amount of pay would ever make up for it - assuming that your assertion that were well paid has any foundation, which it does not. And just as my parents would have been to blame for selling me, those who bought me would have been to blame for buying me. Buying people for work in brothels, whether paid or not, is human trafficking. You have just admitted that IJA took part in human trafficking. Why should this not be apologised for?

With Korea taking this course, it's quite possible that China and Japan will move ahead without Korea someday. That will leave Korea playing catch up.

This is a justification? If my parents had sold me into sex work, no amount of pay would ever make up for it - assuming that your assertion that were well paid has any foundation, which it does not. And just as my parents would have been to blame for selling me, those who bought me would have been to blame for buying me. Buying people for work in brothels, whether paid or not, is human trafficking. You have just admitted that IJA took part in human trafficking.

Well said @Yoshitsune.

@Tina, Thank you for finally saying that at least some of the comfort women were sex slaves, even if that wasn't your intention.

And as for the 50,000 Korean prostitutes who you say work in Japan right now, it looks like you are inferring that they are also being forced to continue, and thus are also sex slaves. I'm pretty sure sex slavery isn't that widespread in today's Japan — at least I certainly hope not.

Yoshitsune, Every military had comfort women system no just Japan. And how would Japan know how comfort women were recruited? They were gathered by Korean agents.

Buying people for work in brothels, whether paid or not, is human trafficking.

Prostitution was legal at that time. No problem.

Why should this not be apologised for?

Japan has apologied more than 60 times for what Japan did and even for what Japan did not do because Koreans were so demanding. Kono statement was one of those apologies for what Japan did not do because SK promised that they would stop demanding apology if Japan included "forced" part.

I personally think that Japan should issue an official apology, indisputably from the government, and pay compensation (of the same amount as the Asian Womens Fund) directly to those women still alive (not only in Korea) who rejected the AWF; and then the whole thing would be finished.

In a rational world, that should put the issue to bed once and for all, but you should realise this: Korea and China will never, ever drop these demands no matter what Japan does. Abe might as well climb on top of Mt. Ontake on Tsushima and give the Koreans the bird.

Thank you for finally saying that at least some of the comfort women were sex slaves, even if that wasn't your intention.

Where did I say that? I said they were prostitues or sold by their parents.

JAAAPOct. 31, 2015 - 01:48PM JST See the truth. http://nadesiko-action.org/?page_id=8590 http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL021/130S4.pdf

Thank you very much for your information.

I have just read the following two. Very informative.

http://www.sdh-fact.com/essay-article/584/

http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL/rebuttal-long.pdf

@tina

They were gathered by Korean agents

Some of them, yes; I acknowledge that, and I agree that Korea should too. But this does not exculpate Japan of its responsibility.

Prostitution was legal at that time. No problem

The problem is the buying and selling of human beings. The legality of prostitution does not mean it was okay to buy women for the purpose of using them as prostitutes.

@AN Other

you should realise this: Korea and China will never, ever drop these demands no matter what Japan does

I don't agree with you on that in Korea's case. I've lived in both China and Korea. I'd agree with what you said about China - as long as the CCP needs Japan as an external enemy, their anti-Japanese propaganda will continue regardless; and anti-Japanese sentiment is actually much more immediate and acute in China than in Korea - I was once physically assaulted for speaking Japanese on the street in Beijing, something that I don't think would ever happen in Seoul. And it is very hard to get many Chinese people, in conversation, to admit that they shouldn't outright hate modern Japan because of history. But in the case of Korea, I've found that most Koreans will agree with this when the point is debated with them - I think that if the comfort women issue were put to bed, it would lead to a massive improvement in Japan - Korea relations (though Takeshima / Dokdo would remain a big problem between them). The Japanese right wing seem to be so focused on their dislike for Korea that they fail to consider that there is no danger to Japan from Korea, while China has far stronger animosity towards Japan and potentially presents a genuine threat. Japan and Korea should be friends and allies, and in any case regardless of strategic considerations Japan should apologise - unambiguously - over the comfort women simply because it is the moral thing to do.

Yoshitsune The problem is the buying and selling of human beings. The legality of prostitution does not mean it was okay to buy women for the purpose of using them as prostitutes.

Are you going to support retrospective law thing!? That's a surprise. I know there is a ridiculously typical retrospective law called "Special law to redeem pro-Japanese collaborators" in Korea.

But rapes and killing were crimes and are still crimes, which were caused by Korean soldiers in Vietnam.

Sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say with your first point. As to your second, it is rank whataboutery. I'm aware of Korean involvement in crimes in Vietnam; you must surely be aware that that is completely immaterial to the comfort women issue.

@Virgo 98 & @JAAAA So much info to be found on the Internet! Here's more! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2137449/The-real-life-X-Files-Meet-people-abducted-aliens.html

Virgo: "But rapes and killing were crimes and are still crimes, which were caused by Korean soldiers in Vietnam."

Glad you can admit Japan's faults. Good on you.

Tinawatanabe: "I said they were prostitutes or sold by their parents"

Yes, dismissing completely the ones, well documented and admitted to by former IJA, who were kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery. Even if some were sold by their parents, Tina, Japan still bought them, which is engagement in human trafficking, and it was still slavery, since they did not sell themselves. So, yes, you do admit to sexual slavery and Japan willingly engaging in it. Good for you! And yes, Japan is still one of the worst countries in the world for engaging in human trafficking to this day.

The problem is the buying and selling of human beings. The legality of prostitution does not mean it was okay to buy women for the purpose of using them as prostitutes.

It was okay at that time. Prostitution was legal.

I think that if the comfort women issue were put to bed, it would lead to a massive improvement in Japan - Korea relations

SK will never put it to bed. Park said SK would never forgive Japan 1,000 years to come.

China has far stronger animosity towards Japan

Not many Chinese and Japanese believe that.

"Comfort" women is a euphemistic translation.

This word presents the image of a kindly old aunt, offering a nice cup of tea and a sympathetic ear to soldiers' woes. After a heavy day of mayhem and slaughter on the battlefield, I cannot believe that this is what every young lad hankered after.

"Relief" women, or "women who give relief," might be closer.

But why not call a spade a spade?

Prostitute or sex slave are much nearer to the truth.

It was okay at that time. Prostitution was legal.

Buying people is not prostitution, it is trafficking. The legality of prostitution does not make it legal to buy people. You seem confused as to the difference between prostitution and trafficking; if you cannot understand that difference then it is unsurprising that you cannot understand what was wrong with the comfort stations.

Park said SK would never forgive Japan 1,000 years to come.

No she did not. You've made that claim before, but you've either misunderstood ithe quote or you're intentionally twisting it. She said the fact that Korea had been victims of Japan wouldn't change after 1,000 years. But this is not the same as saying they would never forgive Japan - in fact her point was that they should try to reconcile despite their historical roles as victim and aggressor.

Not many Chinese and Japanese believe that.

On what do you base that? Have you ever been to China or Korea and talked to the people there about Japan? I doubt it... you're just repeating the opinions you've picked up from other uyoku. It is foolish to think that Chinese animosity towards Japan is not stronger than Korean animosity towards Japan. It is much more vehement e.g. The Beijing subway screens videos of China and Japan's relative military strengths and what would happen if they started fighting in the East China Sea; there is nothing remotely like that going on in Korea. China wants an external enemy & distraction, and has amped up anti-Japanese sentiment to the point of large scale rioting against Japanese businesses - again, nothing like that in Korea. Chinese people have openly talked to me of their "coming war of revenge against Japan" (that is an actual quote); Korean people say nothing of the sort. Don't let your hatred of Korea blind you to the danger from China

Yoshitsune - if prostition is legal, it is not illegal to hire through agents. If prostitution was illegal then hiring through agents may be trafficking. You are looking at them from the present perspective. .

in fact her point was that they should try to reconcile despite their historical roles as victim and aggressor.

She is not practising what she preaches.

It is foolish to think that Chinese animosity towards Japan is not stronger than Korean animosity towards Japan

Chinese govt and people are a little different but in Korea, govt and people are same both anti-Japan. That's how perceived in Japan. This comfort women issue is really affecting Japanese public againt Koreans.

Buying people is trafficking. Hiring is different, yes; but are you really contending that all of the comfort women were hired willingly, knowing that they were being hired to be prostitutes, and paid according to the terms of their contracts and that they even had contracts in the first place?

She is not practising what she preaches.

Well, she's making it clear that she wants the comfort women issue cleared up first. I agree with her that it should be; though in other regards, I agree with you that she has made some unhelpful moves - especially attending Beiing's military parade. I don't particularly like Park either - but the comfort women issue is not about Mrs Park.

Chinese govt and people are a little different but in Korea, govt and people are same both anti-Japan

And I say to you again that the anti-Japanese opinions I've heard from Chinese individuals (normal people, not govt) have been far more strident and angry than those I've heard from Koreans. Koreans seem mostly tired of Japan (as you say Japanese are tired of Korea), but I've seen Chinese people become very angry and aggressive when talking about Japan.

Let's be honest, anti-Japanese education is strong in S.Korea. There's tons of material thst confirms it, like the anti-Japan drawings made by Korean kids and displayed on subway.

knowing that they were being hired to be prostitutes,

I think so, some may have realized later but accepted for money. But SK raped many vetnam women and many babies were born. Isn't it worse than brothels?

they even had contracts in the first place?

I think so. There are records of advertisement and payment of wages.

Well, she's making it clear that she wants the comfort women issue cleared up first.

It was cleared up many times. 1st, they were paid for work. 2nd Japan SK basic treaty with huge money 3rd another payments.

Chinese individuals (normal people, not govt) have been far more strident and angry than those I've heard from Koreans.

Hard to believe, but let's just say both are similar.

Abe would rather lose South Korea as an ally than admit that Japan had a comfort women system

Eh? I don't recall South Korea and Japan ever being allies.

I think so, some may have realized later but accepted for money

"I think so" isn't very persuasive. I am not prepared to discount the testimonies of all the women who have come forward on the basis that you think they are lying. And given how many of these women weren't from Korea, claiming it's a fabricated story by Japan-bashing Koreans doesn't really work either.

But SK raped many vetnam women and many babies were born. Isn't it worse than brothels?

This is pure whataboutery. Irrelevant. Yes, some SK troops committed rape and murder of civilians in Vietnam, but that is completely immaterial to the comfort women issue. It is also true that Japanese troops committed rape and murder of civilians - on a much larger scale - in China in the 1930s (e.g. Nanjing) but again that's a separate issue.

There are records of advertisement and payment of wages

For all of them? Where?

It was cleared up many times

Not by official apology, which is what it requires.

Hard to believe, but let's just say both are similar.

Why do you find it hard to believe? You haven't been to either country, have you? So how can know what to believe about them? Korea and China are not so similar; Korea and Japan are much more similar to one another.

For all of them? Where?

In US National Archives for one? I saw in one of above posts too, for instance of JAAAP,

http://nadesiko-action.org/?page_id=8590

Why do you find it hard to believe?

it is general perception in Japan .Anti-Japan education in Korea is stronger than in China. Who attacked Japan's Ambassador? Who killed Hirofumi Ito? Who is erecting comfort women statues? Who stole Buddhism statue from Japan? Many many more..

Korea and Japan are much more similar to one another.

Nothing in common. Japanese are not aggressive. Japanese may be similar to Mongolian

It seems that China is taking anti-Japan activities by political reasons. This is the point why Japanese people think we can deal with it because there is a reason that we can see.

As for SK, anti-Japan is already a cult. They just move emotionally. They ignore reasons, even their own national interest when it comes to anti-Japan things. Japanese people do not like or cannot accept such irrationality. That's why the majority of Japanese have given up about SK. Many say "Leave them."

Japanese government has admitted that Imperial Japan was involved in the operations of comfort houses, but never admitted it was involved in kidnapping or human trafficking. They wanted to avoid crimes by Japanese soldiers such as rapes of local women that Korean soldiers actually committed in Vietnam, and tried to solve the problem by money using brokers, because, as tinawatanabe says it was not illegal those days. Then why should Japan, only Japan be blamed ? Those who comitted crimes should be blamed, and it is not Japan. (By the way, prostitution is not illegal in some countries even these days, such as the Netherlands, and it was not illegal in SK until recently.)

@Yoshitsune, this may explain what I said above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

Japanese people had sympathy for the comfort women at the first because they had actually worked for Japan in the wartime, and wanted to help them by moral reasons, although we can no longer handle it legally. That's why Asian Women's Fund was established. And you know what happened to it. And lies after lies, and such ugly statues after statues to disgrace Japan. Our sympathy has dried up already.

Why does South Korea keep bringing this up? Do they want more compensation or they're holding grudges toward Japan for what happen in the past.?

Why does South Korea keep bringing this up? Because Abe has yet to clearly acknowledge and express regret for the Imperial Japanese Army's wrongdoings concerning Korean women who were forced into sexual slavery.

@tina

In US National Archives for one? I saw in one of above posts too, for instance of JAAAP,

That link allegedly shows the bank book of one woman. What about the rest of them? US archives? Where? What about the Taiwanese comfort women? The Filipinas? The Chinese? etc

Anti-Japan education in Korea is stronger than in China

It is stronger in China, by far. I've lived in both of those countries; have you? I have visited the Nanjing memorial and the Unit 731 museum; nothing like that in Korea. Japan's behaviour in China was far worse than it was in Korea, and China does not forget or forgive this.

Who attacked Japan's Ambassador?

A lone crazy person.

Who killed Hirofumi Ito? Who is erecting comfort women statues? Who stole Buddhism statue from Japan? Many many more..

Much more importantly; who has contingency plans for war with Japan actually drawn up right now and ready to go at a single order? and where have large scale anti-Japanese riots actually happened recently? You seriously need to reassess this idea that China is less hostile to Japan than Korea is. Statues are hardly significant compared to actual violence and potential war.

Nothing in common. Japanese are not aggressive. Japanese may be similar to Mongolian

There is no more similar county to Japan in the world than Korea.

@virgo

What does ex post facto have to do with anything I said? My point was the legality of trafficking and the legality of prostitution are two separate things.

As for SK, anti-Japan is already a cult. They just move emotionally. They ignore reasons, even their own national interest when it comes to anti-Japan things.

I would say the exact same thing can be said about the emotional anti-Korea cult in Japan's right wing, as evidenced in many posts on this thread. China is the threat, not Korea.

The War has been over for 70 years. Most of the Japanese Politicans were not even born! Why do these other Countries continue to Yap about this? During ALL wars many atrocities have been committed, it is one of the unfortunate things that happen. Get rid of Religion and Money then this World would be a wonderful place.

US archives? Where?

Report No. 49: Japanese Prisoners of War Interrogation on Prostitution

What about the Taiwanese comfort women? The Filipinas? The Chinese? etc

What about it? Japanese comfort women were majority. There are many records of payments but no evidence of kidnapping or forced.

There is no more similar county to Japan in the world than Korea.

But the world and Japan are seeing China and SK in the same context. SK is hurting Japanese people so much that Japan is now trying to stay as far away from SK as possible.

@SensatoOCT. 31, 2015 - 11:55AM JST

I am not saying she should apologize for her father's role with the IJA, but she obviously has an obligation to own up to it by publicly renouncing his past. If she were to do that, I would come to see her concern about the comfort women issue as being much more sincere.

Personally, I don't agree with that. At that time, Korea is part of Japan. Her father decided to try and get on with life rather than supporting some old regime that was so weak and so incompetent it got itself "eaten". Nothing wrong with that - and it is Koreans that should learn to recognize that. Not that they can, with the horrible degree of brainwashing their State provides them.

@YoshitsuneOCT. 31, 2015 - 12:33PM JST

This isn't only about Korea. How do you feel when, for example, Taiwanese use the words "comfort women"?

I suspect i know what you want me to think, but I actually think ... hmm, a prostitute.

@SensatoOCT. 31, 2015 - 03:07PM JST

Sorry to break it to you, but any girl/woman who does not sell herself into prostitution but becomes one as a result of another person selling her is a sex slave (human trafficking 人身売買), even if the person doing the selling is her mom or dad.

It may well be, but now the primary responsibility is on the Mom and Dad, and that's something Koreans are very loathe to acknowledge.

Also, any person who has become a prostitute voluntarily and is not allowed to quit the job, but is forced to continue, is also a sex slave.

That'll depend. If she is on contract, then she is not at liberty to leave. Otherwise, contracts are meaningless.

@Yoshitsune

Re the 1965 treaty, it seems that compensation was paid for forced labourers, but not for comfort women. Re the belated 1995 womens' fund, many rejected it because it wasn't official state compensation. Haruki Wada (the fund's director):

The treaty text makes it clear that all such claims should have been settled by that treaty. ALL. It doesn't allow for after-slotting. You are effectively encouraging South Korea's criminal, extortionist activity.

It wouldn't even be that hard to do.

Yes it would. It would set a horrible precedent that treaties are not final, that the victim can find some pretext to ask for some extra amount whenever they want and it'll be valid. No frigging way.

If my parents had sold me into sex work, no amount of pay would ever make up for it

Yes, but first you should hate your parents. The people who bought her would also be responsible. But not necessarily any later receivers, since this would hardly be an advertised fact.

A lone crazy person.

That is no doubt motivated by all the anti-Japanese indoctrination he has received over the years. It may be true that Korea's depth of indoctrination is less than China's. But it may be also a difference in expression. Personally, I think individually attacking an ambassador or doing one of those self-immolating stunts South Koreans are occasionally famous for requires more dedication than being part of a mob or putting out some trash talk.

@tina

Report No. 49 only covers 20 women at two stations in Burma; it does say that they were paid, but it also says that they were trafficked. The fact that the women were paid doesn't make it acceptable that they were trafficked in the first place; but given the report only investigated 20 women, we can't conclude from it that all comfort women were paid (nor that all were trafficked)

What about it?

I thought it was clear why I raised Taiwanese and other comfort women - you keep talking only of Korean women, and saying that the comfort women issue is a Korean fabrication. I'm pointing out that there were also many non-Korean women, so how do they fit into your idea that it's all a Korean plot to make Japan look bad?

You also say that Japan should break off relations with Korea because they keep talking about comfort women; so I also asked you about Taiwan because Taiwan is opening a comfort women museum next month - do you think Japan should therefore also break off relations with Taiwan? I've asked you that twice now, please do me the courtesy of answering this time.

But the world and Japan are seeing China and SK in the same context

No tina; the world does not see China and Korea in the same context. Nor do all Japanese. That is only the paranoid view of Japan's right wing.

@kazuaki

I suspect i know what you want me to think, but I actually think ... hmm, a prostitute

I didn't ask you what you think about the Taiwanese women at all, and I didn't ask whether they were prostitutes - I asked TW, in response to two specific things (see above) that TW said about the comfort women as a Korea - Japan issue

You are effectively encouraging South Korea's criminal, extortionist activity.

I'm not encouraging anything. I was responding to a post by AN Other in which they asked why Korea doesn't think the 1965 treaty covered comfort women, and was explaining their perspective to him/her.

Yes it would. It would set a horrible precedent

No, it wouldn't. It would be as easy as swallowing a little pride. And if the women weren't covered by the treaty, the rest of the point is moot.

Yes, but first you should hate your parents. The people who bought her would also be responsible. But not necessarily any later receivers, since this would hardly be an advertised fact.

As the force which invaded these territories and then set up comfort stations in them, the ultimate responsibility lies with IJA. They created the very demand which they then had to supply.

is no doubt motivated by all the anti-Japanese indoctrination he has received over the years

Perhaps; but the same man also attacked the US ambassador and there is no anti-US indoctrination in South Korea.

we can't conclude from it that all comfort women were paid

You can't conclude that all comfort women were not paid or kidnapped for forced.

I'm pointing out that there were also many non-Korean women,

Not many, only one or two each. I think I answered this before. Koreans are erecting comfort women statues in several places in USA and working on in Canada and Aussy by buying votes of local assembly members. How hard is it for them to collect several testimonies from non Koreans in favor of their propaganda?

how do they fit into your idea that it's all a Korean plot to make Japan look bad?

You did not know Koreans did not sign TPP, and you don't seem to know that Koreans often publicly state that Koreans must make Japan look bad in the world stage. Read Korean papers sometimes. They often say "Let the world know Japan's bad" or likes even in the news headline. President Park has been bad mouthing on Japan around the globe. Koreans "Civic group" are spreading Japan's bad in the world. Nothing new. Even Chinese admit that Koreans anti-Japan sentiment is much more intense than Chinese.

Taiwan is opening a comfort women museum next month

China built a museum for Korean killer of Japan's 1st Prime Minister on request from President Park.

but the same man also attacked the US ambassador and there is no anti-US indoctrination in South Korea.

How do you know the motivation of attacker was not anti-Japan? It was reported that he shouted while attacking the ambassador "Why has US changed?" It was the time in SK there were talk about US changing to neutral from pro-SK regarding Japan-SK relation.

@ Yoshitsune

Nadeshiko Action: http://nadesiko-action.org/?page_id=8590

Hstorical Evidence 9: Japanese Official Documentation Prohibits Forceful Recruitment

http://nadesiko-action.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/s15.jpg

Historical Evidence 10: Japanese Police Arresting Human Trafficking in Korea

http://nadesiko-action.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/s16.jpg

http://nadesiko-action.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/s17.jpg

If you want to see more, you can refer to the Nadeshiko Action Page above.

Prostituton business was not illegal at that time, but kidnapping, human trafficking, forceful recruitment were of course crimes to be arrested, charged and punished in Korea under Japanese control.

And "Ex post facto laws retroactively change the rules of evidence in a criminal case, retroactively alter the definition of a crime, retroactively increase the punishment for a criminal act, or punish conduct that was legal when committed. They are prohibited by Article I, Section 10, Clause 1, of the U.S. Constitution. An ex post facto law is considered a hallmark of tyranny because it deprives people of a sense of what behavior will or will not be punished and allows for random punishment at the whim of those in power." In this case, it is 'prostitution', I suppose.

I reiterate that there is no evidence that Japan was responsible for such crimes stated above in the first place.

You can't conclude that all comfort women were not paid or kidnapped for forced.

I haven't made that conclusion; I clearly acknowledged this in my last post, directly after the part you quoted, did I not? It isn't about whether all the women were unpaid or forced; it's about acknowledging that some of them were and apologising to those that were.

Not many, only one or two each

Taiwan says there were thousands of Taiwanese comfort women. Philippines says hundreds. China says tens of thousands. Indonesia says hundreds. The Dutch government says hundreds of European women. Clearly not one or two each.

How hard is it for them to collect several testimonies from non Koreans in favor of their propaganda?

What, you're trying to say that the testimonies of non-Korean comfort women were all collected by Koreans? Nonsense.

Amid all that waffle about Korean newspapers and Korean badmouthing, you still haven't in any logical way explained how Taiwanese, Chinese and other comfort women fit in to this idea that it's all a Korean plot.

China built a museum for Korean killer of Japan's 1st Prime Minister on request from President Park.

So? You've avoided the question again. So, again, and for the third time; given that you think Japan should break off relations with Korea over the comfort women issue, do you think that Japan should also break off relations with Taiwan? If not, why not? Please explain the difference.

How do you know the motivation of attacker was not anti-Japan? It was reported that he shouted while attacking the ambassador "Why has US changed?" It was the time in SK there were talk about US changing to neutral from pro-SK regarding Japan-SK relation

China has actual battle plans drawn up for war with Japan, and you're bleating on about an individual nutcase in South Korea - now in prison on a 12-year sentence - like it's somehow more important. Again I implore you to reassess your idea that SK is more hostile to Japan than China; it obviously is not.

@virgo

Still non-plussed as to your ex post facto point. It doesn't have any bearing on anything I've said above.

And you can stop linking to the nadeshiko site - thank you, I read it the first time. The fact that Japan issued instructions not to engage in trafficking does not mean that those instructions were followed and that it didn't happen - Japan also issued instructions to the army not to rape and murder civilians in China, yet in Nanjing alone the IJA raped tens of thousands and murdered a 6-figure number.

@Yoshitsune

Sources please. You are saying you do not accept the evidences provided. But you never provide us enough clear evidences to support your statement so far.

@YoshitsuneNOV. 01, 2015 - 01:44PM JST

Report No. 49 only covers 20 women at two stations in Burma; it does say that they were paid, but it also says that they were trafficked. The fact that the women were paid doesn't make it acceptable that they were trafficked in the first place; but given the report only investigated 20 women, we can't conclude from it that all comfort women were paid (nor that all were trafficked)

Amusing. So, when it is a US report about 20 women, it is non-representative. Yet when it comes to comfort women testimony, which even if we are not particularly picky about their reliability et al, only amounts to a few hundred at best throughout the world, we can extrapolate it to mean 200,000 sex slaves. Interesting mentality.

By the way, I must wonder where the trafficking happened in that report. They were not sold by their parents. There is talk about "false representations" but they ARE getting "plenty of money" which will have given them the opportunity to "pay off (any) family debts". There is prospect of life in a new land if they choose and "easy work" ... they are being paid well over TEN times the going wage. Any work they can physically do, in that sense, can be called easy. The girls admit the nature of work is unspecified but they somehow got the idea "wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy", the last of which is accurate. Where is this horrible false representation, which is the last grasp in that document for trafficking?

I'm not encouraging anything. I was responding to a post by AN Other in which they asked why Korea doesn't think the 1965 treaty covered comfort women, and was explaining their perspective to him/her.

Give any agnostics and deniers a little credit - we are at least vaguely aware of the rationalizations the Koreans use to demand more money. It doesn't change the text of the treaty, which just says all claims are settled, or the fact that the Koreans are throwing their international credibility to the toilet (or at least they should be but for some reason the world's usual and well-justified hate against contract-breachers goes into the drink because ... those poor, poor comfort women and what harm can it do?)

Some lines cannot be breached, and it is no matter of pride.

And you can stop linking to the nadeshiko site - thank you, I read it the first time. The fact that Japan issued instructions not to engage in trafficking does not mean that those instructions were followed and that it didn't happen - Japan also issued instructions to the army not to rape and murder civilians in China, yet in Nanjing alone the IJA raped tens of thousands and murdered a 6-figure number.

Or so the Chinese say. I actually notice how sometimes even in Western historiography they are quietly abandoning the tight hold on that whole "hundreds of thousands" number.

Anyway, while you ARE right that instructions don't have to be followed, the fact that these instructions do exist greatly increases the quality and quantity of evidence that should be required to press the case anyway. Much more than, at least IMHO, can be provided by a relative few whiners putting in their claims FIFTY or more years after the alleged fact.

@virgo

Sources: the many testimonies of comfort women from multiple countries. I imagine that you know what I'm talking about, because your basic premise is that they are all lying; correct?

@kazuaki

we can extrapolate it to mean 200,000 sex slaves

Can we? Not what I've said mate. Don't put words in my mouth. You and I have had a very lengthy debate before in which I clearly stated that I accept that not all comfort women were sex slaves, but that I also do not accept that none of them were.

Or so the Chinese say. I actually notice how sometimes even in Western historiography they are quietly abandoning the tight hold on that whole "hundreds of thousands" number.

The Chinese say 300,000. Western sources say less than that but still 6 figures. I'm not aware of western histiography "quietly abandoning" the 6-figure number. Nanjing happened, do you really expect to convince the world otherwise? Ditto the comfort women.

do you think that Japan should also break off relations with Taiwan? If not, why not? Please explain the difference.

I thought I've answered. We can guess who are behind from decades of experience with Koeans. Besides, why would Japan want to cut relation with Taiwan who is not an anti-Japan country?

Taiwan says there were thousands of Taiwanese comfort women. Philippines says hundreds. China says tens of thousands. Indonesia says hundreds. The Dutch government says hundreds of European women.

Where is evidence? Just saying so can not hold in court. Even for the number of 200,000 for Koreans, SK provided nothing to support the figure, no names of women, no ages, no home addresses.

You are saying JIM kidnapped the girls. How did JIM know which houses have the young women? What were their parents doing? Didn't they complain to city office or police? Why can't SK find a single document if its true?

Ok... so you don't think Japan should break relations with Taiwan, even though Taiwan wants an apology for the comfort women and is opening a museum about them. But you do think Japan should break off relations with Korea because Korea wants an apology for the comfort women. It seems to me that the difference is not anything logical, but your own emotional feelings about Korea and Taiwan i.e. you just don't like Korea.

Whether or not a country is "anti-Japan" today is immaterial to whether or not Japan should acknowledge the wrong it did to that country during WWII.

You are saying JIM kidnapped the girls

No, I didn't say that. Some of the women have said that's what happened. Trafficking and kidnapping are not synonymous.

Ok... so you don't think Japan should break relations with Taiwan, even though Taiwan wants an apology for the comfort women and is opening a museum about them.

I never saw Taiwan govt officially demanded apology and money.

It seems to me that the difference is not anything logical, but your own emotional feelings about Korea and Taiwan i.e. you just don't like Korea.

People are judged by everyday's behaviour. And nobody likes a neighbor who keeps demanding apology and money many times on the already settled same issue for decades. If Japan lived in an apartment, she would have already moved out.

@Yoshitsune

No, I didn't say that. Some of the women have said that's what happened. Trafficking and kidnapping are not synonymous.

Does it mean you are saying JIM was responsible for trafficking?

And, are you aware that you have gone back to resorting to oral testimonies without giving a firm evidence?

I never saw Taiwan govt officially demanded apology and money

Recently reported here:

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aipl/201508270015.aspx

The Taiwan government on Thursday repeated its call for Japan to formally apologize to Taiwanese women who were forced into sexual slavery by the Japanese Imperial Army during World War II and offer compensation to the women... "Over the past years, our stance has been that Japan should issue a formal apology and offer compensation to the comfort women," said Chou Shyue-yow, deputy director-general of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' Department of East Asian and Pacific Affairs... "It is untrue that the issue has been resolved," Chou said, adding that Taiwan has never reached an agreement with Japan on the comfort women issue.

Now, if those comments came from Korea you'd say Japan should break off relations with Korea. Different for Taiwan? If those comments came from Korea you'd say the comfort women issue was a Korean plot. Is Taiwan part of Korea's plot?

As for your neighbour analogy; far worse is a neighbour who invades your apartment and rapes and murders the people in it! Lame analogy, forget it.

@virgo

Does it mean you are saying JIM was responsible for trafficking?

Some of the women have said they were kidnapped. Others have said they were sold, others have said they were tricked; both of which consitute trafficking. If these women were bought and sold - as TW said they were (and this whole thread about trafficking / prostitution stems from that) - then yes they were trafficked. If they were decieved then yes they were trafficked.

And, are you aware that you have gone back to resorting to oral testimonies

Gone back? Resorting? The whole thing is about oral testimonies from comfort women and from the soldiers they 'served'

Yoshitsune - news articles can never be any evidence.

The President Ma(?) is pro-China anti-Japan, but Japan and Taiwan are in good relation for a long time. At least the article did not say whopping figure like Koreans do.

US stopped food and oil and other material supply to Japan, which was the reason that Japan went to the war. Most J soldiers died from hunger. Japan could not afford the numer of women you claim.

I think Koreans are murdering Japanese more than vice versa. Many Japanese civilians were killed at the end of war.

You keep denying that SK's anti-Japan stance is hurting its export to Japan, but according to Korean report, it shrank more than 25% in October.

news articles can never be any evidence

Then stop complaining about things you read about Korea in the news! You often cite news articles as sources on here. I'm not giving it as 'evidence'; it's a news report, and as reported in that article (and many others) the Taiwanese government wants an apology for the comfort women; why does this seem to be okay in your eyes (or, at least, something you can pretend isn't real) when you think Korea's desire for an apology is "a human rights abuse"?

US stopped food and oil and other material supply to Japan, which was the reason that Japan went to the war

Japan went to war in 1937. The US embargo began in 1941 and was a response to Japan's warmongering in China.

Japan could not afford the numer of women you claim.

I haven't claimed a number; and if Japan could afford to build aircraft carriers and fleets of ships and planes and use then to invade the entire Far East then it could obviously afford these women.

I think Koreans are murdering Japanese more than vice versa

What?

You keep denying that SK's anti-Japan stance is hurting its export to Japan, but according to Korean report, it shrank more than 25% in October.

Regardless of whether or not that figure is accurate, and regardless of whether it's a result of Korea's "anti-Japan stance" or a result of Abenomics, I don't really see why you keep talking about this or what relevance it has to whether Japan should apologise to the comfort women.

Then stop complaining about things you read about Korea in the news!

I only cite the present deta from the news not bashing somebody like you do against Japan.. As Kazuaki said, you should blame the parents who sold their daughters to Korean agents.

What?

Many Japanese were killed by Koreans in Korea and Japan during the confusion at the ending of the war. GHQ says 4,000 Japanese were killed by Koreans in Japan.

When Korean grabbed Takeshima, killed dozens of Japanese fishermen there at the end of war.

I don't really see why you keep talking about this or what relevance it has to whether Japan should apologise to the comfort women.

Korea is not only hurting Japanese but also themselves by trying to extort apology & money from Japan using history.

SK's economy success was because of huge financial and technological assistance from Japan. Those things are not taught in SK, only anti-Japan education.

I only cite the present deta from the news not bashing somebody like you do against Japan.. As Kazuaki said, you should blame the parents who sold their daughters to Korean agents.

Both isn't it. The parents should be blamed for selling their kids, and the Japanese should be blamed for buying them, forcibly confining them, and the rape (often of minors).

not bashing somebody like you do against Japan

I don't bash Japan. Linking to a Taiwanese news report about their government asking for an apology is not bashing Japan. You continue to ignore the fact that Taiwan has asked for an apology; why, when it hurts you so much for Korea to do it, can you ignore it when Taiwan does it?

Many Japanese were killed by Koreans in Korea and Japan during the confusion at the ending of the war. GHQ says 4,000 Japanese were killed by Koreans in Japan

And no Koreans were tortured or executed without trial under Japanese rule? Why are you even talking about this though? My throw-away comment in response your 'bad apartment neighbour' analogy was more a reference to Japan's behaviour in China - but as I said, it was a daft analogy in the first place so forget it.

Korea is not only hurting Japanese but also themselves by trying to extort apology & money from Japan using history.

Is Taiwan also hurting itself by asking for an apology? Is China? No? Why is there such a difference? Why do you have such a problem with Korea specifically?

Those things are not taught in SK, only anti-Japan education.

I agree with that, and as i told you above I have often engaged in debate - usually with some success - with Korean people about this. But it doesn't mean that the comfort women system didn't involve systemic abuse against the women in it and it doesn't mean that Japan shouldn't apologise for that.

the Japanese should be blamed for buying them

Do you have any evidence that the Japanese knew how the comfort women were brought by Korean brokers?

for buying them

The Korean brokers might have bought the women, the Japanese hired them. Do you think the Korean brokers were honest enought to tell how they recruited them?

forcibly confining them, and the rape (often of minors).

They were prostitutes with high wages. They had free time for shopping too. So rape or confine are not proper words. You are really contributing in the worsening of Japan Korean relationship.

The Korean brokers might have bought the women, the Japanese hired them. Do you think the Korean brokers were honest enought to tell how they recruited them?

Does it matter? The Japanese were buying them. Paying money for property. And you don't let property leave, even if it doesn't want to be there. And you don't check for consent when having sex with property.

The sad thing is, this issue would be so easy to fix. Give the women some money, make some official apologies and the issue goes away. It would be way cheaper than the money that goes into debating these issues (among officials), and the increase in trade and cooperation would far outweigh the costs. But you have a bunch of Japanese people (and I mean a bunch as in a small portion of the population), who out of some misplaced sense of pride (and stupidity), would rather try to re-write history to look as if Japan had never done anything wrong, instead of moving forward with a positive future. They just keep dragging this out, to no ones benefit.

The Japanese were buying them. Paying money for property.

I think the words are the Japanese were hiring them as comfort women.

The sad thing is, this issue would be so easy to fix.

This is something to do with Korean's inferiority complex and greediness, so not easy.

Give the women some money, make some official apologies and the issue goes away.

Japan did, so the rest is your govt's responsiblity.

the increase in trade and cooperation would far outweigh the costs.

This is not about cost but about historical fact. Besides almost nobody in Japan want any cooperation with Korea anymore.

I think the words are the Japanese were hiring them as comfort women.

No.

This is something to do with Korean's inferiority complex and greediness, so not easy.

The Koreans were wronged, not the wrongdoers, so your comment doesn't make sense. They have a valid complaint, it's the Japanese who refuse to admit it. So it's the inferiority complex of a subset of Japanese people that is the problem, not the Koreans.

Japan did, so the rest is your govt's responsiblity.

My country didn't have any women used as comfort women, nor did they purchase any. Why would my government have any responsibility one way or the other?

This is not about cost but about historical fact.

So why do you keep trying to deny historical fact?

Besides almost nobody in Japan want any cooperation with Korea anymore.

Maybe you should try to look at reality sometime Tina.

So why do you keep trying to deny historical fact?

I do not deny historical fact. You learn nothing if you deny history.

Maybe you should try to look at reality sometime Tina

Today's Korean paper says "becuase of worsening Japan SK relation, SK' export to Japan fell 25% in October". It is you that should realize your greediness only leads to losing than gain.

As Kazuaki said, you should blame the parents who sold their daughters to Korean agents.

Yes, in the cases where parents sold their daughters the parents share the blame. In the cases where agents bought women or decieved women the agents share the blame. In the cases where Japanese troops kidnapped girls then Japan is directly to blame. It isn't clear cut, I acknowledge that. But in consideration of the entire comfort women system and the systemic abuses against women that occurred as a result, Japan is responsible - they invaded those territories where they established the comfort stations, they 'sourced' women and imported women as though they were sourcing livestock, and they had sex with those women - in many cases non-consensual i.e. rape.

You are really contributing in the worsening of Japan Korean relationship.

It is in fact those who deny any wrongdoing on Japan's part over the comfort women that is worsening the relationship. This includes yourself - but I don't think you even want Japan to have a good relationship with Korea!

I do not deny historical fact.

You persistently deny any wrongdoing over the comfort women and you are clearly in denial over Nanjing also.

You learn nothing if you deny history

Indeed. That is the problem.

I do not deny historical fact.

Oh, so you are agreeing that Japan kept sex slaves? Good to know!

In the cases where Japanese troops kidnapped girls then Japan is directly to blame.

You can't prove that. How do the Japanese know which houses have young girls? And they don't speak Koreans. If they were young girls why were there only handful of Koreans comfort women came forth after 1991? And the testimonies they gave contained X'mas holiday and jeep, so it was obvious they were Korean war comfort women.

I think you should file a law suit at international court if you are confident. Maybe while Korean is the chief at UN is the best timing for you? Hurry up.

You persistently deny any wrongdoing over the comfort women and you are clearly in denial over Nanjing also.

Both China and SK should sue Japan at international court.

Why do you insist on only talking about Korean comfort women? Taiwanese and Chinese women have also said they were kidnapped.

I think you should file a law suit at international court if you are confident

I'm not demanding anything. You seem to be a little confused as to who you're debating with here. I'm not Korean, and I'm not a former comfort woman. I'm not demanding or trying to force Japan to apologise; but in my opinion I think it should, and I've been explaining why I think that. That is not a matter for a law suit. If your aim is to persuade the world of a more favourable view of Japan's wartime conduct, then I am in fact one of the people constituting 'the world' who you need to be persuading. You (personally and plural i.e. the Japanese right) are failing to do so... all I really get from you is an extremely strong dislike of Koreans, apparently no matter what.

Both China and SK should sue Japan at international court.

Japan should just apologise without equivocation and obfuscation.

I'm not demanding or trying to force Japan to apologise

You are.

all I really get from you is an extremely strong dislike of Koreans

As I said nobody likes the people who keep demanding apology and money.

Japan should just apologise without equivocation and obfuscation.

Japan did probably more than 100 times. Every Korean President demanded Japan apology and Japan gave them. Each time they said it would be the last time Korean demanded apology.

You are

I'm not; I'm clearly not in any position to demand anything from Japan. I am expressing my opinion that Japan should apologise - that is not a demand. If you think it is then you have an incorrect understanding of the word 'demand'

As I said nobody likes the people who keep demanding apology and money.

Nobody? Sorry, but you'll find that most people will not in fact dislike a victim of a crime for wanting an apology. And once again, Korea is not the only country asking for an apology yet it's the only one you seem to hate for it.

Japan did probably more than 100 times

But not officially - your own criticisms of the Kono statement as being "just his opinion" are a good example of the reason those apologies haven't been enough.

most people will not in fact dislike a victim of a crime for wanting an apology.

Japan did not do any crimes to Koreans. Everything was done by the law. SK is fabricated kidnapping but you can't prove anything. SK never try to go to international court because they know there is no evidence..

Korea is not the only country asking for an apology yet it's the only one you seem to hate for it.

They deserve it.

No Stran, That's Korean lie. They think if they repeat their lies, they become true. I can't believe the level of civility of people who accuse others without evidence. .

Japan has been deceived and lied by SK many times. Japan has been apologizing many times because wanted to maintain a good relation with them, but never again.

you'll find that most people will not in fact dislike a victim of a crime for wanting an apology.

In case you don't know Japan never fought a war against Korea. Koreans were Japanese. There were Japanese comfort women. So what crime did Japan do to Koreans? They were hired as comfort women. Nothing illegal.

In case you don't know Japan never fought a war against Korea.

They just took over their country for 30+ years.

what crime did Japan do to Koreans?

They raped their children.

In case you don't know Japan never fought a war against Korea

Of course I know that. I didn't say Japan fought a war with Korea. And your point is what? How is that relevant to the comfort women issue?

So what crime did Japan do to Koreans?

Human trafficking.

That's Korean lie.

Are the Taiwanese,Chinese, Australian, Indonesian, Filipina, Burmese, Vietnamese and Malaysian comfort women also Korean lies?

They think if they repeat their lies, they become true

This is the exact trick being employed by Japan's revisionists - quite effectively domestically, but quite pathetic internationally.

Many Koreans were sentenced as C-criminals so why victim?

This is true, but it is also irrelevant. Many Koreans committed war crimes as part of Imperial Japan. But where you're completely wrong is in thinking that this somehow means the comfort women - who were not perpetrators, but victims - don't deserve acknowledgement or apology.

Human trafficking.

As I said, hiring prostitutes at high wages is not trafficking.

Are the Taiwanese,Chinese, Australian, Indonesian, Filipina, Burmese, Vietnamese and Malaysian comfort women also Korean lies?

Only small numer of them Koreans collected. Your number is lie. You can't provide that evidence either. Testimonies can not be evidence in case you don't know legal procedure.

you're completely wrong is in thinking that this somehow means the comfort women - who were not perpetrators, but victims - don't deserve acknowledgement or apology.

What I think is irrevant. Former PMs send them apology letters with cash. I think they are being used by Korean government as anti-Japan tool. Koreans have so much inferiority complex that .they feel ecstacy each time they succeed extorting aoplogy from Japan. They can't stop it.

hiring prostitutes at high wages is not traffickin

You keep talking about proof; but likewise you cannot prove that all of the hundreds of thousands of comfort women were hired, that all of them were well paid, and that none of them were trafficked. Yes, I accept that some were hired and some were paid; but we have all these testimonies from women of at least 8 nationalities who were comfort women over a wide geographical area who say they were deceived, or kidnapped in some cases, or unpaid, or raped. Now I know you know that abuses occurred, because you repeatedly say that they were only committed by Koreans (who you also say were Japanese at the time)... but that doesn't work with the many comfort women who were not Korean, and the entire abusive system was set up by the Japanese to supply the demand that they had created in their invasions of other countries. As I said above, you and I are not engaged in a legal battle; I am one of the members of the general global public that you need to persuade, and bleating on about Korean anti-Japanese conspiracies is not going to convince anyone who doesn't have an ingrained dislike of Korea i.e. almost the entire world.

When I do something wrong, I don't refuse to apologise unless it is proven in a court of law. I offer an apology freely, and I believe this would be the best course of action for Japan (both morally and pragmatically)

Only small numer of them Koreans collected

What is this nonsense about Koreans collecting the testimonies of non-Korean comfort women? We've had non-Korean comfort women give testimony to the UN and to the US congress; if this is a conspiracy it's much bigger than anything Korea could pull off by itself. Tin foil hat territory.

Your number is lie

My number? What do you mean? I don't have a number. The numbers I listed above were those given by the countries in question. You're basically saying that the Dutch, Australian, Philippino, etc etc governments are all lying. What, because Korea told them to? Pull the other one.

Koreans have so much inferiority complex that .they feel ecstacy each time they succeed extorting aoplogy from Japan. They can't stop it.

Koreans this, Koreans that... you really are a stuck record with this vehement anti-Korean stuff you pour out through your keyboard. The comfort women were not only Korean, and not only Korea wants an apology; you're going to have to deal with that.

we have all these testimonies from women of at least 8 nationalities who were comfort women over a wide geographical area

Testimonies Korean collected are small number of people. Even Koreans' are small number even in 1991.

We've had non-Korean comfort women give testimony to the UN and to the US congress

Koreans (and Chinese possibly) collected and submitted.

Koreans this, Koreans that... you really are a stuck record with this vehement anti-Korean stuff

But it is true, Koreans are most persistent in comfort women issue.

After long arguments above, there is no clear and firm evidence provided to back the credibility of Korean comfort women's testimonies after all. On the contrary, there are so many to give doubt about their credibility. That's all. Japanese will never be deceived.

Taiwanese were never deceived by the education imposed by Gaishojin from China. They tell the truth whether bad or good. That's why Japanese respect them unlike Koreans. That's the fact. No more.

TW

Koreans did not collect the testimonies of non-Korean comfort women who testified to the UN and the US congress. Where are you getting this nonsense from?

But it is true, Koreans are most persistent in comfort women issue.

Yes, that is true; but it doesn't alter the fact that other countries are involved and would also like apologies.

@virgo

After long arguments above, there is no clear and firm evidence provided to back the credibility of Korean comfort women's testimonies after all. On the contrary, there are so many to give doubt about their credibility.

There is no clear evidence to show either way that all the (estimated) 200,000 comfort women were forced, or to show that all of them were willing and paid prostututes. Yes, you can produce bits and pieces to show that some individuals were paid, and that there were adverts for comfort women, etc, but this doesn't constitute solid evidence that every comfort woman testimony on record is a fabrication. Among the many comfort women, some were trafficked, some were not; some were paid, some were not. I am not the accuser here - I am one of the people, the global general public, who you need to convince. And if you want to convince the world that every single comfort woman who has testified is a liar, you're going to have to come up with a lot more than what's on that nadeshiko website; while it does show that it isn't clear-cut, it does not show that all of those testimonies are false.

Taiwanese were never deceived by the education imposed by Gaishojin from China. They tell the truth whether bad or good. That's why Japanese respect them unlike Koreans. That's the fact. No more

That isn't much relevant to the comfort women issue though, is it? Whether a comfort woman was Korean or Taiwanese, and even though Korean animosity towards Japan today is much greater than any in Taiwan, has no bearing on what happened to her or whether she deserves an apology. TW is wilfully ignoring the fact that Taiwan (among others) has asked for an apology, apparently because it doesn't fit with the Korean conspiracy theory; what do you think about it? Are the Taiwanese comfort women all liars too? Why would they do that given that they respect Japan and don't have animosity towards them?

History destroys the future.

Leaders who let that happen should not be leaders. Relying on grudges and hate and nationalism is a short term game that any savvy politician can win. That is a good enough reason not to reward those who stoop to playing the game rather than appealing to the better angels of human nature.

I have a really hard time telling whether the comfort women issue demeans politics or exalts it, but I am really sure that it is inappropriate that it be allowed to stall relations between Japan and Korea when there is so much more important business to attend to for future generations.

Just do it, Japan. Confess. Apologize. Pay.

South Korea and Japan need each other, they are both allies of the US and together will need to stand against China's continued expansion, which I hope stays peaceful.

Someone is going to have to compromise on this, and sadly it seems Abe is not the guy, but it needs to happen soon.

Tired of hearing the phrase "very regrettable" every time Japan or some Japanese official apologizes for something they have done. Regrettable may very well may translate as an apology to the Japanese mind ( maybe a Japanese member here could clarify??) but it certainly isn't an apology where I come from.

Put this to bed Japan and for the last time make a clear and concise apology. Then lets hear no more on this matter ever again.

Here's an idea…why not ask the Koreans to draft the letter and see if you can work with that.

Tired of hearing the phrase "very regrettable" every time Japan or some Japanese official apologizes for something they have done

They do it in the Western media too. This isn't a Japanese thing.

Hmm…not with the same ring they don't.

And it is followed by the actual word "sorry"

Apologizing. How about apologize every day for a month and to advertise internationally. Mention either Comfort Woman or Ianfu. I stay away to explain what they were as my translation is not literal translation. Some people use dictionary. They ask what kind of different Asian massage. After apologize one month, see how S Korea react. Park's father was very friendly with Japan. Then when N and S go into war very soon, Japan will stay away and don't help s/ no matter how US tries to convince Japan/

Human trafficking in Japan became illegal in Japan after Gen. MacArther requested Japanese Govt To prohibit the customs of poor cropped northern farmers selling their little daughters to Southern Japan. The northern girls were not dark like southern people and some were adopted to childress families and some were purchased by Geisha houses - okiya. Until it was prohibitrd, they said their business is HitoKai. In school, we knew who were from north as they mingled us and explained about snow.

Abe has no balls to apologize for his ancestors monumental misdeeds and atrocities. What is this "regretful", "unfortunate" BS ? Or he just whines like a kid, there is no "evidence" of this or that - in spite of tons of evidence.

DECIBEL" Which ancestor of AbE? You wrote in plural. You mean Takayoshi Kido who was known as Kogoro Katsura? What kind of atrocity? Oh I got. You are blaming any living Japanese as they did atrocity before they were born. You hate Japanese,