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S Korea demands apology from Japan for flight over navy warship

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The word is that the Korean defense ministry is now sure Japan doesn't have the STIR radar emission signature on its ESM record based on Japan's actions over the past week, and has decided to play a hard ball against Japan.

They are so confident of this that they are now officially demanding an apology from Japan over this incident.

Japan should have taken time to investigate the whole incident before jumping the gun and announce the claim in less than 24 hours after it took place, but Japan jumped the gun before properly analyzing the data and is now going to pay the price.

-23 ( +7 / -30 )

 and has decided to play a hard ball against Japan.

Which really helps relations doesn't it? Should be trying to bury the issue, not play it up. The only people that benefit are South Korean and Japanese nationalists.

They are so confident of this that they are now officially demanding an apology from Japan over this incident.

Good luck with it.

pay the price.

What price did you have in mind?

Japan has bigger fish to fry than this issue.

I can't understand why the editors and staff at JT haven't highlighted a recent development in America as Trump signs into law the Quadrilateral Dialogue and confirms India's status as a strategic U.S partner. This directly impacts Japan.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/trump-signs-legislation-enhancing-us-leadership-in-indo-pacific-region-into-law/articleshow/67345296.cms

14 ( +15 / -1 )

ROK the perpetual child who believes that saying a lie long enough and strong enough would somehow will be accepted by the world even though they had violated various international treaties like not displaying an nation identification flag or not responding to radio on an international emergency frequency.

They also violated Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea(CUES) in which 21 nations are signatory of.

( Australia, Brunei, Cambodia, Canada, Chile, China, France, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Peru, the Philippines, Russia, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand, Tonga, the United States and Vietnam)

Their argument is only another sign that ROK had not changed much from Joseon dynasty and not have able to adopt modern understanding of accountability or abiding international law.

16 ( +20 / -4 )

They also violated Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea(CUES) in which 21 nations are signatory of.

Then I would Ave thought that CUES should be investigating this incident.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

@Matt Hartwell

Which really helps relations doesn't it? Should be trying to bury the issue, not play it up.

They tried, it was Abe who lit fire to this issue by ordering the release of the video, plus the new year's interview demanding that Korea apologize and make sure such lock-ons do not happen in the future.

What price did you have in mind?

Japan loses the GSOMIA renewal, which is due in August.

GSOMIA termination leaves a big hole in Japan's missile defense early warning.

-17 ( +4 / -21 )

Watch what you wish for Korea!

Oh sorry, forgot that under Moon you are constantly going to be playing more toward China and NK than your American and Japanese Allies.

OK, a nice totalitarian future to you!

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Japan loses the GSOMIA renewal, which is due in August.

GSOMIA termination leaves a big hole in Japan's missile defense early warning.

All that does is force Abe to go on the all out offensive and Trump will be only too keen to provide the firepower, along with the Europeans and Israeli's. There all falling over themselves for contracts.

All of it aimed at Seoul.

What a crazy outcome.

I know you want war between South Korean and Japan but think about the long term consequences.

Really setting Korea up for a massive economic hit as well if the situation got out of hand as its abundantly clear that much of the world will align with worlds 3rd largest economy and begin broad-scale tariffs and/or embargoes on South Korean products. Very easily done. South Korea is not China, you have no economic leverage.

I mean all it would take for Australia to do it is for Abe to say we will end all coal and gas imports if you don't. We would fold in a second. Goodbye Samsung, Kia and Hyundai from these shores. South Korea's leading companies can ill afford problems in Western markets when their ability to compete in China is highly limited.

And what's President Moons popularity rating atm? 48% and declining? Growth falling.

What would tariffs do on the South Korean economy? You have seen the impact on China and its growth rates were multiples of Korea before the whole trade war started.

18 ( +20 / -2 )

This makes me laugh. Why did not S Korea show the video footage like Japan SDF did it? if Japan plane did dangerous approach?

18 ( +22 / -4 )

S.Korea's absurdity coming close to and almost match with the one of North. LOL.

17 ( +21 / -4 )

In the meantime china, an avowed ‘enemy’, is laughing as it prepares to intrude into both nations’ waters. Only Korea & Japan united can china be contained. Oh well, this ain’t gonna be a good year, me thinkest.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

GSOMIA termination leaves a big hole in Japan's missile defense early warning.

You got it the other way around. Japan is providing SK with information obtained by JP observation satellites concerning missile launches not the other way around.

SK does not have any military satellites and would be too late for any ground based radars to see due to curvature of the planet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Gathering_Satellite

16 ( +17 / -1 )

@Triring

You got it the other way around. Japan is providing SK with information obtained by JP observation satellites concerning missile launches not the other way around.

What Japan provides is not real time.

What Japan provides is a duplicate of what the US provides, of inferior quality.

You do not understand how SM-3 based Aegis Ashore system works. SM-3 interceptor must hit the target before the incoming warhead reenters Earth's atmosphere with the minimum altitude of 120 km. This means the incoming warhead must be intercepted 200 km away from Japan, which in turn means the SM-3 interceptor must be launched while the warhead 500~600 km away. This is why the Aegis Ashore must have Korea-based early warning to have a shot at interception.

Anyhow, the GSOMIA is very unpopular in Korea, as Koreans don't want to help Japan defend itself from Chinese and NK missiles. And the first attempt at the GSOMIA failed in 2012 due to an overwhelming opposition, while the second attempt was passed by Park changing the ratification requirement due to a popular opposition to the deal. So Koreans will celebrate when the GSOMIA is terminated.

https://www.voanews.com/a/seoul-tokyo-intelligence-deal-raises-south-korean-fears/3611211.html

In 2012, negative public sentiment derailed the signing of GSOMIA under former President Lee Myung-bak. But this week, the deal passed with relative ease following approval by Park and her Cabinet, less than a month after the defense ministry renewed efforts to approve it.

South Korean opposition parties have said they plan to file a motion at the end of the month to dismiss Defense Minister Han Min-koo for signing the deal with Japan.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20161122000648

Ki also stressed that a majority of people are against the military deal. Another Gallup Korea poll showed that 58 percent were against the GSOMIA.

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

@Matt Hartwell

All that does is force Abe to go on the all out offensive and Trump will be only too keen to provide the firepower

The GSOMIA is about Japan's missile defense, not offense.

along with the Europeans and Israeli's. There all falling over themselves for contracts.

Japan can't afford it. Why do you think Japan has $3 billion Aegis Ashore instead of $12 billion THAAD? Because Japan can't afford to spend $12 billion on six THAAD batteries to cover most of Japan.

I mean all it would take for Australia to do it is for Abe to say we will end all coal and gas imports if you don't. We would fold in a second.

Australia will stay out of such mess, I assure you.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

So Koreans will celebrate when the GSOMIA is terminated.

It sounds like Japan is an enemy against S Korea and you according to this phrase and S Korea is really very same as N Korea. US, Japan and S Korea are supposed to be allies whatever. In case if N Korea launched a missile to Japan and S Korea military knew it in seconds and was very silent about this, S Korea would be most criticized by other allies. It seems GSOMIA will never be terminated whatever as long as S Korea is one of allies. If S Korea is out, then understandable.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

BoB Woodward's "Fear : Trump in the White House" book has a detailed description of this missile detection capability within Korea.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/chaos-confusion-infighting-woodward-s-book-confirms-familiar-story-about-n906506

“At a National Security Council meeting on Jan. 19, Trump disregarded the significance of the massive U.S. military presence on the Korean Peninsula, including a special intelligence operation that allows the United States to detect a North Korean missile launch in seven seconds vs. 15 minutes from Alaska, according to Woodward.

Japan desperately wanted a piece of this 7 second NK missile launch detection speed and Korea not, this is why Japan desperately wanted the GSOMIA while Korea didn't want Japan to have this capability.

If Japan attempted to detect the incoming NK missile from Hokkaido or Kyoto, it would be too late for the Aegis Ashore to attempt an interception.

This is why Japan's missile defense gets a big hole in its ability to defend Japan from incoming ballistic missiles if Korea terminates the GSOMIA.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

@Samit Basu

If you are saying repeatedly the critical hole of J defense, but it seems most Japanese don't worry about it much, but not many politicians do except Abe. Do you why? If N Korea launch ballistic missiles to the target of Japan, I just wonder what N Korea can get from Japan? I think "Nothing". N Korea has been thinking about biggest economic supports (trillions of money) from Japan for a long time, so that's why N Korea wants official end of the Korean War and diplomatic normalization with Japan. If you consider these, N Korea will never launch ballistic missiles to Japan and never destroy Tokyo, Kyoto, Hokkaido,,,,, If N Korea really did it, N Korea will be ended, they know it.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@kwatt

so that's why N Korea wants official end of the Korean War and diplomatic normalization with Japan.

Japan can't normalize diplomatic relations with North Korea without revising or terminating the 1965 Treaty, because Japan agreed to recognize Seoul as the only lawful government in the treaty.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%20583/volume-583-I-8471-English.pdf

Article III

It is confirmed that the Government of the Republic of Korea is the only lawful Government in Korea as specified in the Resolution 195 (III) of the United Nations General Assembly.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

@Samit Basu

Whatever Seoul is lawful ,,,,,,,,,. N Korea doesn't think that way and not agree with Government of S Korea about its diplomatic relation. It seems to me that N Korea wants diplomatic relation with Japan independently as North Korea. Don't you think so? Probably you never think about it. One Korea? Yes, If N Korea took over S Korea.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@kwatt

It seems to me that N Korea wants diplomatic relation with Japan independently as North Korea. Don't you think so

But Japan is prohibited from doing a formal diplomatic relations with Pyongyang per the terms of the 1965 Treaty.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

the video released by J states "flight in accordance with international regulations" or some such, but SK is saying "menacing"....so which is it?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Looks like the South Korea playing victim like North Korea now.... In the first place which water does this South Korean Navy enter? Japan or South Korea?

Its up to SDF to go high or low-altitude in their airspace.

Japan radio the Warship 3 times but no respond to the South korean Navy.

Ok South Korean doing rescuing but atleast they could respond the contact of the SDF about rescuing?

Now who really need to make an apology?
7 ( +8 / -1 )

@Samit Basu

Hey, S Korea already ignored/broke the 1965 Treaty about resolved hard labor and other problems, why can not Japan ignore it? It is not a big deal!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@Lone Cabal

In the first place which water does this South Korean Navy enter? Japan or South Korea?

The water is officially an international water. Any warship from any nation can sail freely.

If you are talking in terms of administration, the water is called a "Provisional Waters Zone(PMZ)" according to the Fisheries Treaty between japan and Korea due to overlapping EEZ claims. Both side can administer and fish in it. It is NOT in Japan's EEZ contrary to Japanese government's false representation of facts.

http://www.southchinasea.org/files/2011/08/Japan-China-Korea-TZs-PMZs.jpg

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

How about you both apologize and go about your business.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Now it seems clear that the Japanese PM wanted and planned to escalate the dispute between the 2 neighboring countries, concentrating public resentment to justify military expansion in the future. Together with the released video, the former Chief of Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force repeatedly made it clear that the S. Korean navy did not show any hostile action toward the Japanese P-1 patrol aircraft. Only amateurish jingoists thoughtlessly try to ignore and distort the expert's contribution: 

https://ironna.jp/article/11560

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

And in English:

https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/a8sje0/a_rightwing_history_revisionist_and_former/

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

I would rather apologize than have a plane shot down, pilot ejected and held in SK custody.

but it would be sort of funny if a war started. US forces in SK will have to engage with US forces in Japan.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

But Japan is prohibited from doing a formal diplomatic relations with Pyongyang per the terms of the 1965 Treaty.

Sounds fantastic. Japan does not have to pay a cent and to deal with a big mess whatever happens to N.K . S.K as the only lawful government on the peninsula would take care of everything.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Japanese newspaper fnn is reporting that what the P-1 detected was the MW-08 search radar.

https://fnnews.jp/archives/3216

日本通がいない」…人員不足で悩む韓国

2019/1/2オピニオンfnnewsjapan

公海上で漂流中の北朝鮮漁船を救助するという緊急時下で起こったレーダー稼働。平素であれば取るに足らない出来事だったかもしれない。小さな船舶を発見するのは容易ではなく、やむを得ず射撃統制システム搭載のMW-08レーダーを作動させた。しかし日本防衛省は「極めて危険な行為で、とても容認できない」と強く反発した。

Korean destroyer activated the MW-08 radar(Search). Japan protested this as a very dangerous act.

I keep telling you, Japan doesn't have the STIR radar signature record as widely suspected, therefore Japan is 100% guaranteed to lose its "Lock-On" case if it went to a third party arbitration, like the Pentagon.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

And yet, Korean newspaper reporting STIR activated...... Isn't it to sincerely make accurate explanation, not to repeat excuses that S.K should do ?

韓国軍は当時、海上自衛隊の哨戒機が接近したため、これを識別する目的で敵味方識別装置と光学追跡装備を哨戒機の方向に向けた。熱感知方式で映像を撮影できる光学装備は追跡レーダー(STIR)と連動しており、稼働させると追跡レーダーも一緒に作動するようになっている。決して日本の哨戒機をレーダーで脅かす考えはなかったというのが韓国の立場だ。

https://jp.yna.co.kr/view/AJP20190103002500882?section=politics/index

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@Lone Cabal

Japan radio the Warship 3 times but no respond to the South korean Navy.

Ok South Korean doing rescuing but atleast they could respond the contact of the SDF about rescuing?

I understand that English is not a native language for you, but you need to learn basic grammar to communicate with people of other countries. If you wrote like this and people do not understand your written English, then it is your fault, not the readers.

For the same rationale, the Japanese pilot tried to speak to the Korean navy, but the Koreans did not understand his English, then it is his fault.

Please listen what the pilot tried to speak at the S. Korean side: https://youtu.be/4dpWAWpzWyE

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

BTW, the record of the speaking of the Japanese pilot starts at 03:33 sec at the video uploaded today by ROK Ministry of National Defense.  https://youtu.be/4dpWAWpzWyE

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dpWAWpzWyE

Is this the one released by S.K Defence Ministry? Really?? Nothing new Nothing original. Nothing threatening. What is this BGM doing anyway? ....LOL

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I wonder if SK had asked permission from Japan to use footage of their video to produce that video?

If not then you can add piracy of copy right material to the list.

Boy how pathetic can ROK can get?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

SK should give it up and apologize. Their “rebuttal video” proves nothing but that the P-1 was acting appropriately. They know that Japan won’t release the STIR irradiation record because it would be detrimental to the national security of both nations.

The more SK protests, the stronger the existing suspicions of special operatives insertion/extraction or illegal aid of NK become.

Why were they not flying flags? Why did they lie about the weather and admit to using STIR in the first place? Why are they backtracking on their statements? Why did they not respond to the P-1 radio call?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@ BeerDeliveryGuy

Why did they not respond to the P-1 radio call?ㅑ

You may define the sound as a call, but I am very curious what would you call it at the S. Korean side. The sound starts at 3:35 at the video:  https://youtu.be/4dpWAWpzWyE

Can you decipher the noisy sound? Please enlighten me.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

You may define the sound as a call, but I am very curious what would you call it at the S. Korean side. The sound starts at 3:35 at the video: https://youtu.be/4dpWAWpzWyE

So ROK DoD is doctoring the videos adding voice to the original to make their claim, unbelievable!!

In the world of Youtube when you can compare the edited with original everyone can tell the truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=s93-l68D3Eo

Around 0:45 for 15~20 seconds you'll be able to see the original.

Now unless there is some whistleblower that has access to the original video that contains the alleged call, ROK DoD has serious answering to do.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Can you decipher the noisy sound? Please enlighten me.

If you watch the original video released by the MOD, with the audio recorded from the radio, the P-1 operator’s voice is loud and clear. If for some reason the SK ship was unable to properly receive the message, they would still see the identification and emergency frequencies lighting up and should probably have responded with the naval equivalent of “Ground control to Major Tom your signal’s bad there’s something wrong. Can you hear me Major Tom? Can you hear me Major Tom?”

3 ( +3 / -0 )

English version

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGWO4Kdk5j0

 

 

If Japan has an evidence of radar usage(frequency information), the evidence may be provided at a bilateral working-level meeting.

 

Japan will have to stop politicizing the issue and start the verification procedure through working-level consultation

 

Translation: Please do not disclose your trump card to the public

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Please do not disclose your trump card to the public

It was already disclosed as early as on December 21, the next day of the incident. But most jingoists can not and do not see it.

https://twitter.com/toshio_tamogami/status/1076127935558340609 (Japanese)

https://ironna.jp/article/11560 (Japanese)

https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/a8sje0/a_rightwing_history_revisionist_and_former/ (English)

The remaining issues, such as radio communication, flag, weather, and copyright, are just to distract the main point.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

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