politics

Voting under way in general election with DPJ favored to end LDP rule

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Hatoyama: "There's no reason why we caan't achieve in Japan what was achieved in the United States."

Lol, I certainly hope Japan doesn't achieve record deficits and unemployment!

"We vow to work as if our lives depend on it ( to bring about the birth of a DPJ-led administration"

No doubt.

"making expressways toll-free"

Great, but someone's got to pay for the maintenance of the expressways. Who's gonna... oh yeah, the taxpayers! Doesn't matter whether you drive on the expressways or not, if the DPJ takes over, by golly, you're gonna pay for the expressways!

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Before we all join in on the anti-LDP pile-on, let us remember: The LDP ranks right up there with the military dictators of South Korea, the KMT of Taiwan, the British colonial government of Hong Kong, Lee Kwan Yew of Singapore, and yes, the Chinese Communist Party, as one of the architects of (maybe even the leader of) the so-called East Asian economic miracle that transformed the global economy in the 2nd half of the 20th century.

If you had told the average American in 1955 (the year the LDP was formed) that Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan would be among the world's leading manufacturers of automobiles, televisions, and other electronic appliances by the first decade of the 21st century, he probably would have laughed at you. Not anymore.

Maybe it's premature to write, but thanks LDP for helping make Japan into the very appealing country that it is today, despite the flaws.

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The DPJ is blaming the LDP-Komeito coalition for the sagging economy and high unemployment even though this is entirely the fault of gaikoku.

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I don't know why the LDP and DPJ don't just merge - they are to all intents and purposes the same.

DPJ would get my vote simply for not using the speaker wagons in my area - been quite a quiet campaign really.

Also I find some of the campaigning weird. Yesterday at a matsuri I had to keep refusing leaflets from campaign staff - hello I am a white westerner!!!! Also a party turned up in a hurry and started handing out leaflets - it took my Japanese friend several minutes reading to determine which party it was!

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Maybe it's premature to write, but thanks LDP for helping make Japan into the very appealing country that it is today, despite the flaws.

Unfortunately the glory days of the LDP are far behind it. The Japanese public aren't voting for the men and women who helped Japan become so successful, but their mediocre sons and grandsons, whose frequently vague, contradictory and ultimately self-serving policies led to 5.7 million people unemployed and a public deficit that may soon hit 200% of GDP. Nowadays the LDP's achievements include projects such as the "Makoto Bridge" in Fukuoka, finished in 2000 at a cost of ¥4.3 billion and expected to have about 2000 cars crossing it every day, whereas the actual number is more like 200. So...

Lol, I certainly hope Japan doesn't achieve record deficits and unemployment!

Bad news Sarge, it's already happened.

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There are huge differences between LDP and DPJ, anyone who can't see these hasn't studied the issue much. DPJ will spend money on health, education and rebates for families with children. LDP will spend it on (mostly) unnecessary construction. Also, DPJ doesn't come with the inertia of decades of power or even a history of corruption.

And Masswipe, can you give one example of how the LDP helped Japan become a powerful manufacturing country? Also, proof that it wouldn't have happened anyway, no matter who was in power.

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Hatoyama: "There's no reason why we caan't achieve in Japan what was achieved in the United States."

People are quite familiar with terms American Dream that drove many citizen or migrants for pursuing their dream in the land of hope. But in Japan, do they have "Japanese Dream"?

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For those who are interested, TPR will be webcasting the returns live, in English, from 8 p.m. (JST): http://www.transpacificradio.com/2009/08/29/details-for-sunday-nights-live-webcast-of-election-results/

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Also, proof that it wouldn't have happened anyway, no matter who was in power.

That's easy. The #1 opposition party from 1958~1993 was the Social Democratic Party Japan. Enuff said.

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I think you're all giving DJP too much credit. Let's remember, this is Japan. Hatoyama and Ozawa (and Makiko Tanaka etc.) were once strong members of the LDP. They just couldn't get high enough positions so they branched out. If you go to the country side of Japan you'll see. A country, with large spaces of land, and nothing, absolutely nothing on it except for farm land, pachinko parlors, and golf courses. Libraries? Homes and properties for the aged? (a crummy dormitory here and there). Everybody jumped from the war to export machine with little thought for building a "Beautiful Japan." Until stomach ache Abe-san came and left. I don't think ANY gov't style will help Japanese people and more or less. They have to determine what kind of country they want, and stand up for it. Not only with a change from LDP to DJP. But maybe its a start. See you in about 50 years, in the land of our children and grandchildren. Do you think Japan will be much different from today? Heavily dependent on the big cities and little development for the countrysides? Me thinks not.

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"proof that it wouldn't have happened anyway, no matter who was in power."

cow76, I almost never find myself on the same side of an argument as the Japan-worshipping nigelboy (see above), but you have to give the LDP some credit. From the introduction of PM Ikeda's income-doubling plan in 1960 until the oil shock of 1973, the LDP was in power the whole time and the Japanese economy took off like a rocket. The LDP provided Japan with stability in a time of tremendous upheaval elsewhere.

Would this have happened under Socialist or Communist rule? Maybe, but those two parties almost certainly would've ended the US-Japan Alliance in 1960. The US in turn, perhaps, would've told the Japanese to kiss goodbye preferential trade treatment, an artificially low yen fixed at 360/$, and massive technology transfers. All that would've strangled the development of Japan's postwar manufacturing sector in its infancy. Then again, maybe not. Nothing can be proven in counterfactual historial debates.

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Hatoyama needs a haircut.

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Yeah. It's one of rare occasions that I agree with red, white, and blue flag waving Masswipe.

While he tends to "overvalue" the U.S. contribution to success economically, it was a time during the U.S-Japan alliance debate of 1960 where the lower house decided to dessolve and the end result was not only an increase in LDP seats but the SDP split into another faction called Minsha-tou. SDP has been down hill ever since that time.

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Masswipe:

Before we all join in on the anti-LDP pile-on, let us remember: The LDP ranks right up there with the military dictators of South Korea, the KMT of Taiwan, the British colonial government of Hong Kong, Lee Kwan Yew of Singapore, and yes, the Chinese Communist Party, as one of the architects of (maybe even the leader of) the so-called East Asian economic miracle that transformed the global economy in the 2nd half of the 20th century.

In case, you haven't noticed, we're about a decade into the 21st century. The LDP have done nothing since the bubble burst 2 decades ago. One hell of a recession, I'd say. And they're not going to do anything for the next two decades, except collect more money for themselves.

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My God!

I agree with Nigelboy too.

What is the world coming to?

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Just don't get too cozy.

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Before we all join in on the anti-LDP pile-on, let us remember: The LDP ranks right up there with the military dictators of South Korea, the KMT of Taiwan, the British colonial government of Hong Kong, Lee Kwan Yew of Singapore, and yes, the Chinese Communist Party, as one of the architects of (maybe even the leader of) the so-called East Asian economic miracle that transformed the global economy in the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Yeah, and now they're useless. What's your point exactly?

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MASSWIPE: Maybe it's premature to write, but thanks LDP for helping make Japan into the very appealing country that it is today, despite the flaws.

That's mostly true, but from what I've read the system that they helped to create is now the thing that's getting in the way of reform at a time when reform is needed. Their close relationship with Japanese industry helped them to grow, but now those same interests that they helped make so large get in the way of reforms.

In the end will it really matter? I thought most Japanese politicians were just sons of previous politicians. I can't imagine there will be too much of a drastic change between parties.

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What I don't understand is why the DPJ say they will form a coalition government. If they gain anywhere near 300 seats they'll have a majority, so why have one of the dingbat smaller parties on board and just make policy making even more complicated than it will be with the competing DPJ factions struggling for control?

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Honestly, how can we trust Hatoyama to lead Japan when he doesn't even know when to get a haircut?

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Jesus H. Christ, paint me green and call me "Gumby", I agree with Nigelboy too. Never thought this moment would happen. What is my coffee?

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Next PM of Japan may be Hatoyama, looks like he is has got bigger hold of Japan.

Aso hold is slipping,as can be heard many times of JT.

Mccain lost because of power of internet,looks like all future leaders of world may lose via sway of net citizens.

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correction- Next PM of Japan,may be Hatoyama,looks like he has got bigger hold of Japan.

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Sarge - i totally agree ... but im in ♥ with Aso though anyways so probably not the most impartial opinion.

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Personally I'll be glad to see the back of the LDP! I'd rather have the useless talento from NHK run the country than these money grabbing ignoramuses anymore!

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Honestly, how can we trust Hatoyama to lead Japan when he doesn't even know when to get a haircut?

With all due respect and without wanting to sound like I'm telling you what or what not to say, if you can't say anything more substantial or informed than that I really wish you wouldn't bother. If it was an attempt at humour, you might have noticed that no one thought it was funny enough to comment on the first time you said it, so repeating yourself is a bit pointless. But seeing as we're on the topic, would you say the same thing about your hero Dubya's great pal Koizumi? He kind of needed a haircut too, but unlike the half-wits who succeeded him, specifically Abe and Aso, he knew a thing or two about winning elections.

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Simon - Check out the first post on ths thread ( it's mine ).

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Yep, frying pan into the fire syndrome

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Congratulations in advance Mr Yukio Hatoyama for becoming the new Prime Minister of Japan - Farakh Malik

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Sarge said,

Simon - Check out the first post on ths thread ( it's mine ).

I thought you might have noticed that I replied to it in my first post on this thread. You obviously had nothing to say about that and you didn't answer the question in my second post about haircuts. Nevetheless, judging by the way the exit polls are going, it looks as if hairdos are the last thing on people's minds.

Moderator: Forget about hairdos, please.

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"The DPJ would seek more independence from the United States"

What, Japan is actually going to take full responsibility for its defense? About time!

Heck, except for Yoshinoya and Yanase they've already got near complete independence from U.S. beef and cars.

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"Yeah, and now they're useless. What's your point exactly?"

That we shouldn't forget how effective the LDP was before it became "useless". Voters in a lot of countries (especially the US&UK) tend to be ingrates who "throw the bums out" the moment they stop delivering the goods. Japanese voters, to the immense frustration of a lot of people, were willing to stick with the LDP way past the expiration date. Why? I don't know. Perhaps because they remembered the incredibly good times in Japan from 1960-90 and believed that ONLY the LDP could return Japan to that kind of glory.

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"Yeah, and now they're useless. What's your point exactly?"

That we shouldn't forget how effective the LDP was before it became "useless". Voters in a lot of countries (especially the US&UK) tend to be ingrates who "throw the bums out" the moment they stop delivering the goods. Japanese voters, to the immense frustration of a lot of people, were willing to stick with the LDP way past the expiration date. Why? I don't know. Perhaps because they remembered the incredibly good times in Japan from 1960-90 and believed that ONLY the LDP could return Japan to that kind of glory.

First, the LDP became useless 20-30 years ago. Second, if you had something in your kitchen that was way past its expiration date, would you eat it? Basically, I think that anyone who thought that only the LDP could return Japan to its pre-1990 glory has realised their mistake, and voted accordingly.

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I think that anyone who thought that only the LDP could return Japan to its pre-1990 glory has realised their mistake, and voted accordingly

Well said - the LDP needs several years in the political wilderness to reform itself before it gets back any credibility, esp if the DPJ can smash the power of the bureaucracy.

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Well said - the LDP needs several years in the political wilderness to reform itself before it gets back any credibility, esp if the DPJ can smash the power of the bureaucracy.

Right. Every healthy political party needs at least one period in opposition to stay competitive. The LDP are long overdue theirs, but it's starting today.

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