Russia's Medvedev to visit disputed Kuril isles

While Japanese politicians are finishing at Chinese islands....

While Japanese politicians are fishing at Chinese islands....

Japan never own those islands, they were just provoking a trouble when their ruling party the DPJ got a bloody nose whenever they are in hot seat!

Japan never own those islands

If you think so, don't worry about it. However the question is still controversial if Soviet took these islands after the war or during the war.

I'd like to see Medvedev and Ishihara in the ring!

YAWN!!!! Give it a rest Japan. You lost them through your own greedy actions. Enough of the self pity "oh their our islands" maybe you should have thought about the consequences a bit more in the 30's and 40's and they would still be yours today.

I really wish that one of the countries in all of these island disputes would just man up and renounce their claim. Would do wonders for their relations. Who am I kidding though? That will never happen.

No Chinese ever lived on those islands and until they were taken by force no Russian ever lived on those islands. I wonder if he is trying to kill negotiations?

No Chinese ever lived on those islands and until they were taken by force no Russian ever lived on those islands. I wonder if he is trying to kill negotiations?

Who gives a crap, Japan lost to China and Russia (through the Allies)... Japan is only lucky that they didn't completely take control of Japan like they did with North Korea and East Germany.

The Japanese forced the Ainu people to integrate thus losing their culture. Here is a very good short documentary about the Kurils http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8YwiSt8Uk&feature=youtube_gdata

The only "Japanese" who originally lived on these islands were the Ainu, who were never considered "Japanese" by Japan.

Oh for the... Japan, give it a rest, willya?!?

Are we going to have to listen to your "We need living space!" mongrel while pretending we haven't heard that before? Seriously?!

In case Japan regained control of the islands (even though everybody knows this will likely never happen), what would be the plan for the local population (about 20000 people). Would those remaining in the islands gain Japanese citizenship or would they just be granted some kind of special residency permit?

The big brave Russians took those islands after Japan had surrendered. It was after Japan accepted the Potsdam Declaration on August 14, 1945, and announced the termination of the war on August 15, 1945, that the Soviet Union started the Invasion of the Kuril Islands, which took place between August 18 and September 3, expelling the Japanese inhabitants two years later.

tian4670Jun. 26, 2012 - 08:28AM JST

While Japanese politicians are finishing at Chinese islands....

What, the islands that were British, then Chinese for 20 years, then Japanese for 100 years? China only started making claims after Japan reported oil and minerals in the area. Check the dates.

On the other hand.. Hokkaido islands are pretty much useless, not all that much gas there, though the four southernmost are within kayak distance from Hokkaido and take half a day's boat ride from mainland Russia.

The Japanese lost those islands due to their own fault. They did lose in war, so the Soviet Union took those islands. And if I'm not mistaken there ARE some documents that prove that, however, Japan basically had no say in that since it lost.

I find it really stupid that they've started making a fuss about it only recently seeing that the whole thing happened almost 70 years ago. Japan certainly has no better things to do other than try to buy new land or "get back their own land". It's really stupid.

Speaking of reasning, I've NEVER heard Japan name at least one legitimate reason - why they should get the Kurils back. The only thing I hear or read about them is "The Japanese expressed regret" and blah blah blah. Where are their reasons? The reason "it's our land!" is ridiculous and childish, it's not a reason.

I wonder if any Japanese people actually read the news on this website, because I'm pretty sure that they are 100% blindly "for" taking the Kuril islands back.

I dunno, I find the whole dispute really childish and I think that Russia kinda smirks at Japan's remarks, that's why they're not really reacting to it. Because it's really ridiculous.

Japan has even established a national holiday called "The Day of the Northern Territories"! It made me lol really hard.

@Harry_Gatto

Well, the winner takes it all. Japan lost, and what's more it was with the NAZI. I'm very neutral when it comes to politics and stuff. But anyone who thinks Nazi is okay is touched in the head.

I wonder if Japan thinks it has gained the right to take over the Kurils?

Well, they're Russian controlled and maintained, so why can't he?

Will he respect the fishing towns and houses and graveyards of the Japanese people who were born and lived there?

Haha I just love it. Russia is giving Japan the finger and theres nothing they can do about it. The island belongs to Russia period. Japan should quit acting like whiny babies and accept this fact.

I want to visit the islands as well. I'm not Russian but I support them over Japan easily.

The soviet army took the Kurile isles at the period between 15thAugust-2ndSeptember 1945, soon after Japanese emperor Hiroito made announcement of surrender in a radio boardcasting to the empire. The soviets was nothing wrong or controversial because the Japanese army were notorious with terrible war conducts throughout her history and that means their troops keep fighting even the emperor's demands for cease fire and gives in! You cant blame the soviets 'invasion' without attention the misconducts those japanese soldiers has committed that lead to the extended fightings and the lost of those isles!

I see the Japan bashers are out in full force today.

Its funny I always see you lot use the same defence for why China should gain the Senkaku Islands that Japan are using to regain the Kuril Islands but you are bashing Japan for it. Double standards in your opinions much?

There's some key differences between the 2 though. The Kuril Islands were inhabited by the Ainu people who were forced out by the Soviet Union at the end of WW2. These Islands are also within paddle distance of Hokkaido.

Now I know that I'm going to get tons of thumbs down here because I'm not part of the Japan bashing brigade but I couldn't care less.

The Ainu were spread all over those northern islands and on the mainland too, where some still survive today.

They were there long before the concepts of 'Russia' , 'Japan' etc.

The Japanese minister responsible for the islands will now have to waste more taxpayers' money flying around near them and waving his fist.

YuriOtani:

No Chinese ever lived on those islands

When people run out of excuses and can't think of anything else to justify themselves, they come up with something ridiculous and which has nothing to do with the current situation. No Martians have ever lived there either, so what's your point? This issue is between Russia and Japan.

Karuharuki:

Its funny I always see you lot use the same defence for why China should gain the Senkaku Islands that Japan are using to regain the Kuril Islands but you are bashing Japan for it. Double standards in your opinions much?

Yes it's damn funny, because when Japan has its hands on some islands, there's no dispute. But when someone else is running them, there's a dispute. This is childish, period. Did I hear you say 'double standards'?

The Kuril Islands were inhabited by the Ainu people who were forced out by the Soviet Union at the end of WW2

And far, far more Ainu people were wiped out by the Japanese. So where are the Ainu in all the negotiations then? Yes, where are they, indeed?!

the four southernmost are within kayak distance from Hokkaido and take half a day's boat ride from mainland Russia.

Diaoyutai/Senkaku are right next to Taiwan but they aren't exactly easily accessible from mainland Japan!

I just want to remind everyone out there japans 2nd largest world and by far huge economy and expendable income could be used for military purposes again and take those islands. There is still great ability in Japan and if Japan has more to offer russia, if russia gets away from those islands. Russia only wants them so japan doesn't get them. Stupid commie bastards.

Actually the Japanese have never accepted Ainu, meaning they have never thought of them as Japanese, so hence al lthe consequences of wiping the Ainu out so just that the Japanese could live happily. And in fact, I've heard more bad cases concerning Ainu people while those islands belonged to Japan than when they became owned by the Soviet Union. I'm Russian, but I can't say I'm a patriot, probably my whole generation is not, because nowadays our country doesn't include that in our upbringing. But I can easily see that Japan lost here in the past and now it's shamefully trying to get back what it lost due to its own foolishness, it's like a coward trying to steal back something that he lost in a fair fight. Those islands now belong to Russia, and I don't think that people living on those islands would be happy to suddenly belong to another country.

And btw, just imagine what's gonna happen to the Kuril people if Japan gets those islands. Ainu case much?

I don't dislike Japan, nor do I like or dislike Russia, it's just how I see it.

And honestly speaking, we're a civilized community now (more or less), how long are we gonna continue on deciding what land belongs to whom? Just like barbarians, jeez.

But I can easily see that Japan lost here in the past and now it's shamefully trying to get back what it lost due to its own foolishness, it's like a coward trying to steal back something that he lost in a fair fight.

Declaring war on the country in which you had a neutrality pact and on a verge of surrender and you call it "fair fight". Sigh.

When are the Russians going to return Japan's property?

@Kanade

Wiped out → no

Culturally assimilated → Yes

Big difference since I have never heard of the Ainu being massacred.

As for the ownership of Kuril island, if I remember correctly there was clause within the declaration of Potsdam stating that "The occupying forces of the Allies shall be withdrawn from Japan as soon as these objectives have been accomplished and there has been established, in accordance with the freely expressed will of the Japanese people, a peacefully inclined and responsible government."

Since the Soviet Union was part of the allies she is by force going against the very declaration she had forced Japan into signing since the four southern islands of Kuril had been acknowledged as Japan sovereign soil within the Cairo declaration.

Russias official statement on the islands is clear, "the outcome of WW2 is final & not subject to revison" why would Russia want to return the islands to Japan!? Japan will need to offer something substantial to get the islands back, nothing comes for free.

Gentle readers the Japanese do not consider the Okinawa people as "Japanese" even though we are considered Japanese Nationals. On subject while Russia can hold these islands it will always be as set back to relations. Russia can give the "finger" to Japan all it wants but it will cost them. I favor no trade with Russia since we are still at war with them. Everything they sell is available from other countries.

@yuriotani ah but oil & gas which Russia have abundance of is also needed by all countries, everything Japan sells eg (electronics, cars) is also available from other countries and cheaper, without energy & resources Japan cant make anything to sell, Russia is one of very few countries that is totally self sustaining, need no food or energy imports to keep there population sustained. so who really has the power!?

Just build another disneyland on the islands and it will flourish

wtfjapan, Japan benefits from their oil/gas production even if we do not buy it. What makes Russia evil is their ethic cleansing. They would do that to all of Georgia if given the chance. The Russians have done a lot of ethic cleansing, sending them to Siberia.

Anyhow I see the trip as Russia giving the middle finger to Japan. I ask Noda san to stop all talks with Russia until they stop. Get the greedy ji ji from investing others money into a place where it can disappear. Does everyone already forget about what happened to the in 18-April-2008 the Russians stole a substantial amount of foreign investment. What is surprising is these fools want to invest more money! Again I find the Russians insulting at best. The Japanese government has to protect the Japanese investors money from the fools that will throw it away. Russia is going to take all that is invested for themselves.

Isn't it good the US won the Japanese islands yet gave them back, while Russia is keeping theirs? What if the US also decided not to give back the islands? Would that be OK? Maybe if Russia lets Japan have the islands back on the condition that Russia is allowed to keep bases there? Would that be a good trade?

Quit crying japan, Russia controls the islands now and there is nothing you can do. The islands never belonged to you in the first place any more than Mexico belongs to the US.

Declaring war on the country in which you had a neutrality pact and on a verge of surrender and you call it "fair fight". Sigh.

Typical comment by japanese rightists who can't think straight. Stealing land from the Ainu and invading its asian neighbors is ok, but Russia who was part of the allies declaring war on imperial japan who was a member of the axis powers isn't.

Quit crying, the island is Russian and theres nothing you can do about it. Can't help but laugh at your state.

The islands never belonged to you in the first place

Besides the Japanese administration control of the Islands in the Edo Period? Or how about The Treaty of Saint Petersburg? Without even forgetting the 17,000 Japanese civilians who were forced out by the Soviet Union.

The islands didn't belong to Japan, they belonged to the subjugated Ainu and then the Russians after WW2. You lost the war and theres nothing Japan can do about it. Go cry in a corner somewhere, that seems to be the favorite strategy of the right wingers. Russia simply doesn't care about the ultra whiny Japanese government because it knows they are powerless.

And no offense but you lose a lot of credibility and respect in my eyes for having some anime girl in your profile picture. It makes it seem like you are either a child or one of those creepy adults into anime. I personally recommend you change it to something else, otherwise people won't take you seriously.

Just some friendly advice.

Auhh, no response to the article within the Potsdam declaration I posted?

It's clearly a violation of the declaration Soviet Union which was part of the allies that force it upon Japan.

Any comments on that?

And no offense but you lose a lot of credibility and respect in my eyes for having some anime girl in your profile picture. It makes it seem like you are either a child or one of those creepy adults into anime. I personally recommend you change it to something else, otherwise people won't take you seriously.

Just some friendly advice.

Oh so I give some historical facts and you resort to trying to degrade me because of my avatar? LOL! This is where I don't waste anymore of my time on you.

It's clearly a violation of the declaration Soviet Union which was part of the allies that force it upon Japan.

Any comments on that?>

Roosevelt promised all 4 island to the Soviet if they entered the war 3 months after Germany was defeated at Yalta,.

Soviet Union entered the war 88 days after Germany was defeated, they held their promise, the Western Allied have to keep theirs.

Soviet Union never signed Postdam Declaration when is was first went public, they never signed the San Francisco Treaty in 1951 either.

Soviet Union never participated in the occupation of home island.

FYI, the U.S could occupy Okinawa indefinitely.

Besides the Japanese administration control of the Islands in the Edo Period? Or how about The Treaty of Saint Petersburg? Without even forgetting the 17,000 Japanese civilians who were forced out by the Soviet Union.

Irrelevant, the Japanese took half of Sakhalin after the 1905 war, despite the 1875 treaty, in 1945 the Soviets took back the entire Sakhalin

Yes all the Japanese that was kicked of Korea and Manchuria now can claim back North/South Korea AND Manchuria

Treaties and Russia do not mix, they are only useful to them until not needed. The question is how many treaties did Russia break in 1945? Funny how the "spoils of war" are correct for the Russians but not the Japanese. The government of that time was no better and actually worse than the Japanese. Question how many Russians did the Russians kill in the 1930's? 20's, since the revolution? So why is their claim any better than the Democratic Japan of the last 57 years? The Russians sent the POW's to the gulag and death. This is a major difference once a Japanese POW was caught, processed and sent to camp they received fair treatment. About 25% of all Japanese were killed by the Russian in Gulag.

Russia attacked a defeated Japan and Truman wanted more Japanese to die than was needed to win. Once the Allies would of won, Japan would of been forced to leave China and Korea. The Russian invasion was an unnecessary orgy of death and destruction. Russia murdered 381,000 Japanese POW's.

YuriOtani Jun. 28, 2012 - 03:42AM JST Treaties and Russia do not mix, they are only useful to them until not needed. The question is how many treaties did Russia break in 1945? Funny how the "spoils of war" are correct for the Russians but not the Japanese.

Russia should understand the Japanese, who still consider that the Russians betrayed them during World War II. They honestly did not attack Russia when Hitler's troops were near Moscow, allowing Stalin to redeploy fresh troops from the Far East. And they did not attack Russia in 1942, when Nazi troops were near the Volga and the Caucasus. Nonetheless, Russia attacked Japan in August 1945 and captured their islands. Russia is unwilling to return land which is not theirs. So what kind of allies can Russia look like after all that?

What was taken by force can be retaken by force. It may take 1000 years but those islands will be part of Japan again. Russia better be careful, with a population not much larger than Japan, with a falling population and a China needing resources, they days are numbered. Again Russia is giving Japan the finger, so all we can do is give it back.

YuriOtani

What was taken by force can be retaken by force. It may take 1000 years but those islands will be part of Japan again.

You obviously missed the article in JT recently that warned Japan will be extinct in 1000 years.... So far from Japan retaking those islands there will be nations picking over the corpse of this whole nation.

Russia better be careful, with a population not much larger than Japan, with a falling population

Much like Japan hey.

Again Russia is giving Japan the finger, so all we can do is give it back.

Yeah but when Russia gives Japan the finger its impressive. When Japan gives it back its funny. Have you worked out the peace sign you all do is not offensive...... ;-)

It may take 1000 years but those islands will be part of Japan again.

In 1000 years... no one is going to care about tiny little islands. Well hopefully in 1000 years people will be wiser than that. Hopefully.

Russia better be careful, with a population not much larger than Japan, with a falling population

I believe Japan has one of the fastest declining population.

@YuriOtani:

The Kurils are living happily without belonging to Japan, and I'm really curious what its inhabitants would say if asked what country they'd prefer - Japan or Russia. I somehow think they wouldn't want to change their nationality. [espcially seing the tax hike which will come to life really soon].

Declining population? Isn't Japan the one with the fastest declining population with one fifth of it being old people? In a 1000 years? Are you sure Japan will still exist in 1000 years with its growing old trends?

If we start taking about "taken by force", then should I bring up the Kwantung Army which did whatever it wanted and is probably the embodiment of violence, greed and horror during the Sino-Japanese war and how it triggered the war itself by participating in the Mukden Incident? Or maybe I should also mention how the Japanese wanted to take Manchuria for its natural resources but couldn't do it peacefully, so had to do it cunningly and trigger the war by making the Chinese at fault here?

Or should we start talking about the Japanese government which is probably the most ridiculous government I've seen recently with prime minsters and the cabinet being changed like women's gloves? The government that thinks that everything can be solved and the rsponsibility can be taken just by apologizing. And the citizens' trust level towards the government decreasing rapidly.

The more I read about the politics the easier it is to compare various governemnts, beit the US, Russia, Japan, France, Greece, the UK, Germany, Italy, etc. All governments have their own flaws, sometimes big, sometimes not, but Japanese government looks really amateur. They're more concerned about illegal downloads, their income and not even their own islands, rather than making their country a safer place in case a disastrous earthquake starts.

You seem to close your eyes on what goes on in Japan, while blindly pointing out the flaws of other countries. It's not patriotism, you know.

The Kurils are living happily without belonging to Japan, and I'm really curious what its inhabitants would say if asked what country they'd prefer - Japan or Russia. I somehow think they wouldn't want to change their nationality

How about we ask what the original inhabitants would prefer? I wonder if they would like to return to where they were originally from.

@KariHaruka That's exactly what I said. I'm curious myself which country they would choose. When I said that I think they would choose Russia over Japan, it's not because Russia better than Japan or anything, but simpyl because they might not want to become part of another country all of a sudden, because it means huge changes in everything, and I don't think it will be accepted easily by people. Just based on psychology.

Russia should understand the Japanese, who still consider that the Russians betrayed them during World War II. They honestly did not attack Russia when Hitler's troops were near Moscow, allowing Stalin to redeploy fresh troops from the Far East. And they did not attack Russia in 1942, when Nazi troops were near the Volga and the Caucasus. Nonetheless,

Soviet kick the Japanese out of Mongolia in 1939, if they attacked in 1941, they Soviets would kicked their ass once against and stil transfer troops back to Moscow in times. Meanwhile the Japanese would starve to death beacuse of the trade embargo by 1942. The reason they invaded SEA to get rice, rubber and oil

The Russians could wait until all the Japanese troops freeze or starve to death during winter

The Russians sent the POW's to the gulag and death. This is a major difference once a Japanese POW was caught, processed and sent to camp they received fair treatment. About 25% of all Japanese were killed by the Russian in Gulag.

The Japanese treated Allied POWs and civilians the same way, in the english language "Taste of your own medicine"

Russia attacked a defeated Japan and Truman wanted more Japanese to die than was needed to win. Once the Allies would of won, Japan would of been forced to leave China and Korea. The Russian invasion was an unnecessary orgy of death and destruction. Russia murdered 381,000 Japanese POW's.

Yes, what did Japan do in China exactly ? unnecessary orgy of death and destruction over 8 years. How many Chinese POWs survived in Japanese hand ?

The Japanese used Russian POWs for Unit 731 experiment

YuriOtani

Treaties and Russia do not mix, they are only useful to them until not needed. The question is how many treaties did Russia break in 1945?

Funny how you fixate on that Yuri, did Japan who had a non aggression pact with Russia also ally itself with the country that invaded Russia? Didnt Japan and Germany also exchange military technologies while that peace treaty was also in place. So yes lets talk about countries breaking treaties shall we?

Funny how the "spoils of war" are correct for the Russians but not the Japanese.

Thats what you get when your the victor. You familiar with the saying "to the victor go the spoils"

The government of that time was no better and actually worse than the Japanese. Question how many Russians did the Russians kill in the 1930's? 20's, since the revolution?

Yes they killed millions of their own people. And that Yuri is the key statement "their own people".

The Russians sent the POW's to the gulag and death. This is a major difference once a Japanese POW was caught, processed and sent to camp they received fair treatment. About 25% of all Japanese were killed by the Russian in Gulag.

Funny you should mention that and how unfairly the poor Japanese POW suffered in Russian POW camps. You claim the death rate for Japanese POWS was 25% that is still a lot better than the Aussies, Brits, US and others received at the hands of the Japanese. Their death rate was 27-30% and many of them where starved, lost their heads, where burnt, shot or bayonetted. Or arnt we mentioning that?

Cletus Jun. 28, 2012 - 08:47PM JST did Japan who had a non aggression pact with Russia also ally itself with the country that invaded Russia? Didnt Japan and Germany also exchange military technologies while that peace treaty was also in place. So yes lets talk about countries breaking treaties shall we?

Lets talk about it. Since you know, explain to me how Japan broke the treaties? The treaty called for the two nations to observe neutrality when any one of the two signing nations was invaded by a third nation. This has nothing to do with exchange in military technologies with Germany because it did not apply of this treaty. This is the reason that under the 1956 Declaration, Russia agreed to return to Japan two of four Kurile Islands. So Far Japan has rejected the offer and has been seeking the return of all four territories.

Roosevelt promised all 4 island to the Soviet if they entered the war 3 months after Germany was defeated at Yalta

Roosevelt promised the Kurile Islands. However, the U.S. position subsequently stated as follows.

...The United States has reached the conclusion after careful examination of the historical facts that the islands of Etorofu and Kunashiri (along with the Habomai Islands and Shikotan which are a part of Hokkaido) have always been part of Japan proper and should in justice be aknowledged as under Japanese sovereignty. The United States would regard Soviet agreement to this effect as a positive contribution to the reduction of tension in the Far East.”

The two governments, after consultation, made the aide-mémoire public on September 12. It is printed in Department of State Bulletin, September 24, 1956, page 484.

The Department made a detailed historical argument in support of its position on the territorial issue in a note presented to the Soviet Foreign Ministry on May 23, 1957....

Kurils are vary small non-freezable gate to Pacific ocean. That is very important moment for security and economy for Russia. We have only two ports to world ocean: Murmansk and Vladivostok. Also Kurils are small non-freezable gate to Pacific ocean.

In 1945 on Potsdam conference Trumen was hint to Stalin about nuclear bomb for terror of Russia. But Stalin was not cracked in and have occupation Kurils in 1945. Because Trumen not test nuclear bomb on Russia after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Because Kurils problem is really between USA and Russia. But USA are use Japan like battering ram for own interests.

West civilization is very wild. You can see what they doing in Okinawa, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Serbia, Iraq, Afgan, Libya. We must be ready for new attack that of course will be in future. But i hope that after that west civilization will be dead.

Because i suppose that some words about some islands so no important. I hope that century would be without atomic war, but that may be unreally.

BessonovYan Jun. 30, 2012 - 04:50AM JST. In 1945 on Potsdam conference Trumen was hint to Stalin about nuclear bomb for terror of Russia. But Stalin was not cracked in and have occupation Kurils in 1945. Because Trumen not test nuclear bomb on Russia after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Because Kurils problem is really between USA and Russia.

Since you know, explain to me why Russians sign the neutrality treaty with Japan in 1941. The treaty called for the two nations to observe neutrality when any one of the two signing nations was invaded by a third nation. Japan honestly did not attack Russia when Hitler's troops were near Moscow, allowing Stalin to redeploy fresh troops from the Far East. And Japan did not attack Russia in 1942, when Nazi troops were near the Volga and the Caucasus. Nonetheless, Russia attacked Japan in August 1945 and captured their islands. Still, Russia is unwilling to return land which is not theirs. So what kind of allies can Russia look like after all that? Any treaty with Russia is no good.

@sfjp330Jun. 30, 2012 - 05:00AM JST

I told that Kurils is very important part of our security. Because it non-freezable gate. You can have any opinion about us, but we always doing all for security and peace. Not each our decision is beauty. We can not ignoring real problems of our security.

BessonovYan: Have you read the 1941 treaty? What your saying is stealing is ok. Russia does not honor treaty and steal. So in the future, Japan invades Sakhalin Island or any part of Russia and take over, Japan can say "we are always doing all for security and peace". Sounds fair?

@sfjp330Jun. 30, 2012 - 08:13AM JST

I sure that i wrote enough for understanding our motives. I sure that you hove enough info from me for understand and respect our position. USA with nuclear bomb in 1945 and USA with biggest army now, China. That is real fact that we can not ignoring.

If Japan in future will attack of Russia. Then Japan would lose more islands. We are friendly to Japan. Some little islands are not big loss. But that is big loss for Trumen and USA that need Kurils for attack of Russia and next test nuclear bomb. In 1945 we can occupation of Hokkaido but we not does that.

Our peace is very fragile. May be you not know that is suffering. Because you told very easy about attack.

We support balance for our security and interest of other counties for peace.