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S Korea, Japan resume 'comfort women' talks

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Germany did it, how come Japan and Korea have so much difficulty?

Let's hope they talk it out once and for all, so that we can all move on.

3 ( +8 / -6 )

BertieWoosterJul. 24, 2014 - 07:15AM JST Germany did it, how come Japan and Korea have so much difficulty? Let's hope they talk it out once and for all, so that we can all move on.

You are right Bertie, the Germans did it. But the Poles, Russians, Ukranians , etc.all don't make it an official a political and diplomatic tool and a hate fest.

" In order to control the spread of venereal diseases, brothels were set up for the Wehrmacht (approx. 500 throughout the war) and for SS officers where hundreds of girls and prostitutes, mostly of Polish and Russian origin, were forced to work "Whore for Hitler's troops" was tattooed on these young women. (after March 1942, Jewish women were no longer allowed to work in brothels). Forced prostitution and rape were common in concentration camps, female prisoners being mainly the victims. Documents presented at the Nuremberg Trials in 1946 prove the fact that systematic acts of rape were committed by the German conquerors. In World War II, the German military brothels were set up by the Third Reich throughout most of occupied Europe, for the use by their soldiers in the Wehrmacht and for the SS officers. These establishments were sometimes set up via existing brothels which they took over in the West, but generally organized as new, especially in the East. Until 1942, there were 500 brothels of this kind in Western and Eastern Europe. Operating in hotels confiscated by the Nazis, these self-evident war-rape sites used to serve travelling soldiers and those withdrawn from the front. In combination with the German concentration camp brothels, it is estimated that at least 34,140 women were forced to serve as prostitutes during the Third Reich. In most cases, especially in Eastern Europe, the women were being caught on the streets of occupied cities in Łapankas (Nazi German military kidnapping raids against civilians) and forced to serve as prostitutes thereafter.

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OssanAmerica:

You are right Bertie, the Germans did it. But the Poles, Russians, Ukranians , etc.all don't make it an official a political and diplomatic tool and a hate fest.

Exactly . . . .And so for Intern'l observers it is puzzling that So Korea seems to focus so obsessively on past events that may have allegedly happened . . rather than tackling the improprieties & scandals it is currently facing in various areas . . . . ..

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Except the Germans have never tried to revise their war past with denials and revisionism. At the end of the war the German people were made to visit the death camps to see for themselves the horror of events which took place. The war horrors are part of the school teachings. There are monuments to those who suffered at the hands of the Nazi.

The fact that the Nazi also had forced military brothels does not lighten the horrors committed by the Imperial troops. The way of dealing with its war past is very different from the way Germany deals with it. The Imperial military had more than 2,000 brothels or 20 times the number used by the Nazi.

Strange how some state that 34,000 women were forced to serve in the Nazi brothels, but when it comes to the Imperialist military brothels, the same people will state no women were forced and in fact all the comfort women were prostitutes?

There are still many who hate Germans for their Nazi past.

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Once again we have people trying to justify Japan's past wrongs with 'well someone else did it too'.

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The fact that the Nazi also had forced military brothels does not lighten the horrors committed by the Imperial troops. The way of dealing with its war past is very different from the way Germany deals with it. The Imperial military had more than 2,000 brothels or 20 times the number used by the Nazi.

In other words, compared to the Holocaust, what the Germans did in regards to military brothels amounts to a mere footnote.

Strange how some state that 34,000 women were forced to serve in the Nazi brothels, but when it comes to the Imperialist military brothels, the same people will state no women were forced and in fact all the comfort women were prostitutes?

The "same" people that you accuse of never made those accusations.

-8 ( +7 / -14 )

nigelboy

In other words, compared to the Holocaust, what the Germans did in regards to military brothels amounts to a mere footnote.

Its a mistake and wrong to think like that. People suffered in the death camps by the millions but the Nazi sex slaves and victims of rape, also suffered so you can't lighten one suffering by trying to compare it with another and its just an insult to all those who suffered when you try to do just that.

As for denial and revisionism, its illegal in Germany and quite a few other European countries but not in Japan?

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Its a mistake and wrong to think like that. People suffered in the death camps by the millions but the Nazi sex slaves and victims of rape, also suffered so you can't lighten one suffering by trying to compare it with another and its just an insult to all those who suffered when you try to do just that.

Then I kindly suggest you never bring up the Holocaust when discussing the issue of military brothels.

As for denial and revisionism, its illegal in Germany and quite a few other European countries but not in Japan?

As the review of the Kono statement indicated, the denials and revisionism were practiced by the Korean government.

-8 ( +7 / -14 )

nigelboy

As the review of the Kono statement indicated, the denials and revisionism were practiced by the Korean government.

No, you're just trying one of the many twists and turns you like to do on the subject but we both know that PM's, leading political figures, historians, professors, mayors and governors, chairmen of the likes of the national media, NHK, have all denied many aspects of the Imperialist war past, including the events of the military brothels and if they did that in Germany would end up in prisons.

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It is like Ukraine issue. Americans will have a huge problem if Japan become China and South Korea ally. China and South Korea'a sentiment increased with the development of the internet blogs. It happened in Libya and many other places.

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No, you're just trying one of the many twists and turns you like to do on the subject but we both know that PM's, leading political figures, historians, professors, mayors and governors, chairmen of the likes of the national media, NHK, have all denied many aspects of the Imperialist war past, including the events of the military brothels and if they did that in Germany would end up in prisons.

Questioning the validity and the accuracy of the statements made by civic groups, former comfort women, and Korean government does not make it a revision nor denial.

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Then I kindly suggest you never bring up the Holocaust when discussing the issue of military brothels.

nigelboy, I think the person who brought up the Holocaust was you, he was comparing the military brothels run by the Nazi's and then ones run by the Imperial Armed Forces, saying that the Japanese claiming it was normal/okay because other people were doing it too. It is the logic of a toddler, "It's okay that I stole this cookie Mummy! Because Timmy did it too!", is the logic employed by prominent nationalists and revisionists.

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Zichi

Except the Germans have never tried to revise their war past with denials and revisionism.

Are you kidding me? Growing up in France, I couldn't spend a week without hearing in the news that some German researcher came up with a theory that the holocaust never happened.

OssanAmerica

You are right Bertie, the Germans did it. But the Poles, Russians, Ukranians , etc.all don't make it an official a political and diplomatic tool and a hate fest.

But the key difference between Germany and Japan is the huge difference between China/SK and France. The French believed that in order to avoid the conflicts of the past, one needed to create a structure that would unite all Western democracies.

In 2012 the EU received the Nobel Peace Prize for advancing the causes of peace, reconciliation, democracy and human rights in Europe.

http://europa.eu/about-eu/basic-information/eu-nobel/index_en.htm

That's in stark contrast with some communist bully bent on revenge and their opportunistic vassal uh?

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nigelboy

Questioning the validity and the accuracy of the statements made by civic groups, former comfort women, and Korean government does not make it a revision nor denial.

No it does not but still my comment remains correct about the deniers and revisionists, of which we know from your comment history, you are clearly one too!

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Strangerland

Once again we have people trying to justify Japan's past wrongs with 'well someone else did it too'.

What if that 'someone else' was South Korea themselves

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/11/us-southkorea-usa-military-idUSKBN0FG0VV20140711

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What if that 'someone else' was South Korea themselves

Doesn't change anything. The "he did it too" defense simply means two people (groups) are culpable. One doesn't negate the other.

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LaChatBotte

Whoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or belittles an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the type indicated in Section 6 subsection (1) of the Code of Crimes against International Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine.

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Strangerland

The "he did it too" defense simply means two people (groups) are culpable. One doesn't negate the other.

I actually agree. It doesn't change what Japan themselves did. But it does make the accuser sound absurdly hypocritical. It's like asking a criminal to judge another criminal.

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That's in stark contrast with some communist bully bent on revenge and their opportunistic vassal uh?

None of the other countries invaded (annexation = same thing?) hold grudges against Japan like these two. It's more political waffle than real attempts to move on. Oh, wait, they don't want to move on... keeping their people distracted from current issues by rehashing the past and actively encouraging hysteria. China and South Korea are both similar to North Korea in this regard.

Fortunately there will always be people who are more concerned with making the world a better place than pushing whatever political, or religious, agenda they think comes before everything else. Even back home, it's the same. I really don't care who is in power if the country comes first.

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Cultural differences between the two nations (Germany and Japan) have played a role in the different attitudes they have taken toward their past. In Germany there is a sense of guilt about the war that is rooted in Christian teachings, while in Japan there is more of a sense of shame.

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Oh, wait, they don't want to move on

Yes, you are correct that Japan doesn't want to move on. They are more interested in re-writing history than in letting it lie. If they would just keep their mouths shut, the Koreans and Chinese wouldn't have anything to complain about.

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nigelboy: no shock you bring up the Holocaust as a compison to minimize how the Imperial Army raped women of all ages. How about a more valid comparison, then: how the Nazis exterminated an estimated six million Jews while the Imperial Army exterminated an estimated 10 million across Asia? Or wait... did that even happen in your books?

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All readers stay on topic please. The Holocaust is not relevant to this discussion.

Here is a link to a Korean newspaper article written by a Korean professor Cheon Bong Kwan as a book review on "Ianfu of the Empire" written by another Korean professor Pak Yu Ha. It will help understanding the Korean view on the issue. The article is available in Japanese http://www.chosunonline.com/site/data/html_dir/2014/07/19/2014071900902.html, and in Korean http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2014/07/11/2014071104040.html.

The facts written in the book were nothing new and I am rather disappointed. The ianfu were not directly coerced by the Japanese military. Japanese military let the brokers establish and operate brothels but many of the brokers were Koreans. The Korean ianfu were, in most cases, bought or trafficked by those brokers. The 3 million or so Japanese Army that were deployed all over the Asia Pacific region had no leisure time abducting women in Korea which is located farthest from the front line.

The fathers and brothers who sold their daughters and sisters for cheap money, the brokers who deceived poor and innocent women and took them to front line in foreign countries, the town chief and mayors who abetted the brokers, and, most of all, the men who were apathetic and incompetent should be accused at some time. By doing so, we can prevent the same tragedy. But now is not the time. When Japan is refusing apology and compensation that we can accept, if Korea shows its remorse first, Japan may take it for pretext for evading responsibility.

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Japanese military let the brokers establish and operate brothels but many of the brokers were Koreans. The Korean ianfu were, in most cases, bought or trafficked by those brokers.

Wow, so why doesn't someone tell these girls who were raped by the Japanese military that they should actually be ok with it since it wasn't the Japanese military that kidnapped them, but rather Koreans that sold them into sex slavery? That would make everything better instantly!

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zichiJul. 24, 2014 - 08:19AM JST Except the Germans have never tried to revise their war past with denials and revisionism

Sorry zichi but Japan hasn't revised their position on Comfort Women either.

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CrazyJoe Jul. 24, 2014 - 09:36AM JST

Cultural differences between the two nations (Germany and Japan) have played a role in the different attitudes they have taken toward their past. In Germany there is a sense of guilt about the war that is rooted in Christian teachings, while in Japan there is more of a sense of shame.

I respectfully disagree that Christianity is the main factor CrazyJoe. I believe it's that the Germans could see first-hand the human-toll inflicted on those unfortunate victims of the Third Reich and this sickened German society. I have viewed taped testimony of German civilians who said they had heard vague rumors about atrocities but it wasn't till they witnessed it with their own eyes did they realize what they had allowed to happen. Thus the German children were and continue to be educated to the past wrong doings in the hope that those horrendous mistakes of war will never be repeated.

The Japanese unfortunately were not able to see first-hand that which was inflicted upon those by the Imperial Army, nor have the Japanese children been educated about it, and nor have those who committed those atrocities come forward to confess. And for the handful that have come forth to confess what a beating they have taken being called pathological liars and traitors. The problem with Japan is they have been lead to believe they themselves are the victims and were never taught the human suffering that was inflicted upon their Asian neighbors and the main reason is shame, by those who are keenly aware of the truth. And yes, I'm keenly aware many Japanese civilians endured unimaginable suffering. Many Japanese still either have never heard of Unit 731 not to mention the indescribable photo evidence and testimony from Japanese medical officers and nurses and their notes and journals to collaborate it nor do they know that the tremendous death toll on the Okinawan people was largely due to Tokyo's betrayal, it's decision to sacrifice the whole island and Okinawan people in a last ditch suicide mission that would halt the Americans in their tracks and force them to give-up any plans for invasion of the mainland and force a negotiated peace deal. I am astonished that so few Japanese have any understanding of what Tokyo inflicted upon the Okinawan people, who could have been easily been evacuated off the island in advance of the US invasion and how the continued denials by the mainland even today keep those wounds alive.

In March 2007, the Abe administration ordered the Ministry of Education to eliminate all references to military coercion in the compulsory mass suicides (shudan jiketsu) of Okinawan residents during the Battle of Okinawa which triggered a wave of anger across Okinawan. Look it up, it really happened. Abe and his like minded comrades have for decades been white-washing the tragedies committed by Japanese imperialism and even more shameful, those atrocities it committed against it's own people. The Japanese people are at large intentionally kept ignorant of their own history and those responsible will not stop until every record has been wiped clean and sanitized.

How many Japanese know that thousands of Koreans were slaughtered in Japan at the hands of vigilante groups comprising citizens, police and soldiers after the Great Kanto Earthquake in September, 1923. Look it up, it really happened.

Does this ignorance void the Japanese people of any duty or shame that one should have, or not, is well beyond my pay-level but history does prove that those who forget the past are condemned to relive it. Do I think that the Japanese should be a bit more empathetic towards those who have been victim of it's misdeeds, I damn sure do.

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Ossan: "Sorry zichi but Japan hasn't revised their position on Comfort Women either."

Sorry, bud, but they have in the past. Before Abe 'crapped out' in his last run as PM he stated that Imperial troops had nothing to do with the brothels and did not visit them -- until he was given proof and was forced to take back his statements; later saying they in fact DID visit the brothels, b-b-b-b-but the women were all volunteers and not coerced.

This issue will never be resolved because Japan will never truly own up to what it's done. They ALWAYS insist, as you so very love to do Ossan, that the women were all more than willing volunteers who were paid well, and that NONE were forced into it and/or raped. As Zichi and others have pointed out, Germany, on the other hand HAS properly atoned for their war crimes, and those who deny them can even be imprisoned. Is it really any wonder how the grandkids of war criminals get into high positions in this nation and seem to be champing at the bit to repeat the same mistakes?

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Since sweeping to power in December 2012, Abe has repeatedly called for talks with his counterparts in South Korea and China but has so far been rebuffed.

I love Japan, but why do i get the image of Abe saying "c'mon guys, lets talk about why i am right and you guys are all wrong"...

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OssanAmerica

Sorry zichi but Japan hasn't revised their position on Comfort Women either.

You attempt some kind of revisionism yourself by commenting on what happened in Nazi Germany as if that somehow lessen what the Imperialist troops did to the comfort women and interesting that your called the women in German military forced prostitutes while in many previous comments you have always stated that the all the comfort women were willing prostitutes. I guess you have a one sided view of history?

From 2007

Japan's prime minister, Shinzo Abe, provoked fury yesterday by saying that the so-called "comfort women" were not coerced into becoming sexual slaves of the former Japanese Imperial Army. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1544471/Japanese-PM-denies-wartime-comfort-women-were-forced.html

such as former Tokyo governor Shintarou Ishihara and Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto — denying the practice in its entirety. http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2012/12/10/2003549806

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A lot of the revisionisms and denial about Japanese war crimes, including 'comfort women', are based on fear and denial that one's own people were evil and inhumane during the war. They want to believe the Japanese military were basically good people in harsh and stressful circumstances. And they would be right. However, what they fail to understand is that any human individual or group is capable of the most heinous of crimes. Yes, today it is hard to imagine Japanese people committing the atrocities of comfort women and mass torture and brutal and cruel murder of many thousands of men, women and children during the war. But they did. If you understand Japanese culture and history you would never doubt that Japanese people can be driven through pressure and adherence to cultural values to do practically anything they are told to do. And they most certainly did.

Today Japan is very different, people are more individual thinking and can better stand up to authority. But that doesn't mean the past should be ignored, forgotten or denied. I hope the Japanese delegation at these meetings have this in mind.

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Obama: "This was a terrible, egregious violation of human rights. Those women were violated in ways that, even in the midst of war were shocking."

Japanese need to study their history, savagery. They need to understand that savagery is not something to be proud of. And it's not "Comfort Woman". You call it "Sex Slavery."

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The number of apologies is way over done. Get over it. How many more leaders will have to slap their foreheads on the tatami before being accepted?

Rediculous.

War causes those without to do things to do things they would not do otherwise during peace.

If one needs to sell themselves to get food, so be it. Drug addicts do it all the time.

Peace

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zichiJul. 24, 2014 - 12:17PM JST "OssanAmerica Sorry zichi but Japan hasn't revised their position on Comfort Women either."

You attempt some kind of revisionism yourself by commenting on what happened in Nazi Germany as if that somehow >lessen what the Imperialist troops did to the comfort women and interesting that your called the women in German >military forced prostitutes while in many previous comments you have always stated that the all the comfort women >were willing prostitutes. I guess you have a one sided view of history?

Revisionism? I'm not the one who brought up Germany. It was the previous poster. Calling someone a "revisionist" is the equivalent of name calling when short of sound arguments. Showing what Germany did was necessary to prove that South Korea is using a WWII issue which is NOT unique as a political tool. Because other nations are not harping on it and using it against Germany. In no post have I ever stated that "all comfort women were willing prostitutes". If you believe so please post it for all to see. It is a known fact that the Comfort women were mostly deceived or sold off by parents, families and NOT all prostitutes.

From 2007 Japan's prime minister, Shinzo Abe, provoked fury yesterday by saying that the so-called "comfort women" were not >coerced into becoming sexual slaves of the former Japanese Imperial Army. >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1544471/Japanese-PM-denies-wartime-comfort-women-were-forced.html

Abe is correct. The vast majority of Comfort Women were recruited through deception by Korean agents working for the Japanese military. Most of them went off thinking they were going to get sent to work in a factory. Scholars both South Korean and Japanese agree on this view. Only the ignorant or biased believe that all Comfort women were forcibly kidnapped from their homes in the middle of the night by Japanese soldiers.

such as former Tokyo governor Shintarou Ishihara and Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto — denying the practice in its >entirety. http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2012/12/10/2003549806

And when were either of them in the Japanese government in power or in the cabinet or otherwise empowered to speak on "behalf of all Japan"? Picking and choosing individual politicians and applying heir comments to reflect all of Japan is frankly, pretty stupid.

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Only the ignorant or biased believe that all Comfort women were forcibly kidnapped from their homes in the middle of the night by Japanese soldiers.

Only the revisionists think that it matters one whit to the girls who were getting raped day in day out by Japanese soldiers.

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The official line remains the Kono Statement which PM Abe reviewed but decided against revising it and therefore stands by that statement, which also states,

The recruitment of the comfort women was conducted mainly by private recruiters who acted in response to the request of the military. The Government study has revealed that in many cases they were recruited against their own will, through coaxing, coercion, etc., and that, at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments. They lived in misery at comfort stations under a coercive atmosphere.

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The official line remains the Kono Statement which PM Abe reviewed but decided against revising it and therefore stands by that statement, which also states,

Zichi. Those information aren't new for nobody has denied the involvement by the military. However, the central issue here is who was doing the recruiting "against their own will, through coaxing, coercion, etc." which in case of Korea, there is no verifiable evidence to confirm that IJA personnel conducted such actions.

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nigelboy

Zichi. Those information aren't new for nobody has denied the involvement by the military. However, the central issue here is who was doing the recruiting "against their own will, through coaxing, coercion, etc." which in case of Korea, there is no verifiable evidence to confirm that IJA personnel conducted such actions.

Overall the imperialist military brothels only happened because that's what the imperialist military wanted and send agents to Korea to recruit women. Without the demand of the imperialist military there would not have been brothels with willing and forced prostitutes. All of the women were transported to the various occupied countries by military transportation using traveling documents issued by the imperial military. The military also set the rates and rules for the brothels and provided doctors too.

It must have been very clear to those in charge if a woman was a willing prostitute or not.

And stated in the Kono Statement,

at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments. They lived in misery at comfort stations under a coercive atmosphere.

Really, you only need to accept what really happened.

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Overall the imperialist military brothels only happened because that's what the imperialist military wanted and send agents to Korea to recruit women. Without the demand of the imperialist military there would not have been brothels with willing and forced prostitutes. All of the women were transported to the various occupied countries by military transportation using traveling documents issued by the imperial military. The military also set the rates and rules for the brothels and provided doctors too.

Zichi. There was no "sending of agents to Korea". They were Koreans in Korea who did the recruiting, paying in advance to the parents, requesting attachment to the military, and operating the brothel.

It must have been very clear to those in charge if a woman was a willing prostitute or not.

"in charge" as in brothel operators as stated above.

And stated in the Kono Statement,

I'm talking about Korea and Korean comfort women which there is no evidence to suggest "administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments".

Also, if you agree that most of the comfort women are Korean, it's quite a contrast from the comfort women plaque which states

"THE MORE THAN 200,000 WOMEN AND GIRLS WHO WERE ABDUCTED BY THE ARMED FORCES OF THE GOVERNMENT OF IMPERIAL JAPAN. 1930's - 1945"

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nigelboy

Zichi. There was no "sending of agents to Korea". They were Koreans in Korea who did the recruiting, paying in advance to the parents, requesting attachment to the military, and operating the brothel.

There are various documents stating otherwise like those held by the Asian Women's Fund, the US National Archives, the Imperial War Museum in London and a much quoted US military document from the Ledo Stockade in India where 20 Korean women were interrogated. Part of that document states,

Early in May of 1942 Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia.

The brothels might have had a civilian owner but they remained strictly under the control of the imperial military and when those on front lines moved, so did the brothels. The military were the users of the military brothels.

I'm talking about Korea and Korean comfort women which there is no evidence to suggest "administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments".

Strange conclusion since the Kono Statement was written for Korea and the Korean comfort women, which clearly states, "administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments" so you may deny but the Kono Statement does not.

I have no idea of the number of comfort women/prostitutes. although the number of 200,000 is the one often quoted? I have no idea what the comfort women plagues in America state, nor do I really care. But where are the monuments in Japan of all the various people who suffered at the hands of the imperialist troops?

I suggest the end of your comment is just more of trying to divert away from the post topic.

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There are various documents stating otherwise like those held by the Asian Women's Fund, the US National Archives, the Imperial War Museum in London and a much quoted US military document from the Ledo Stockade in India where 20 Korean women were interrogated. Part of that document states,

No. It simply means agents were civilians and not a military personnel.

Funny that you quote from the report that also states,

"While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping."

The brothels might have had a civilian owner but they remained strictly under the control of the imperial military and when those on front lines moved, so did the brothels. The military were the users of the military brothels.

Of course they moved. They were attached to the military units.

Strange conclusion since the Kono Statement was written for Korea and the Korean comfort women, which clearly states, "administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments" so you may deny but the Kono Statement does not.

It is strange hence the controversy. This is one of many reasons why Kono statement was reviewed.

I have no idea of the number of comfort women/prostitutes. although the number of 200,000 is the one often quoted? I have no idea what the comfort women plagues in America state, nor do I really care. But where are the monuments in Japan of all the various people who suffered at the hands of the imperialist troops?

Is it necessary? I don't see any monuments in your country honoring the suffering of foreign victims at the hands of your country's troops.

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StrangerlandJul. 24, 2014 - 11:55PM JST "Only the ignorant or biased believe that all Comfort women were forcibly kidnapped from their homes in the middle of the night by Japanese soldiers." Only the revisionists think that it matters one whit to the girls who were getting raped day in day out by Japanese >soldiers.

Only the prejudiced believe that the TRUTH does not matter,

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nigelboy

It is strange hence the controversy. This is one of many reasons why Kono statement was reviewed.

Well at least we can put that to bed because even after the review, according to PM Abe remains without any revision. So if he can accept it then it shouldn't be too difficult for you too?

Is it necessary? I don't see any monuments in your country honouring the suffering of foreign victims at the hands of your country's troops.

which country and honouring which suffering are you actually referring to? In Germany, there are many monuments for the suffering caused by the Nazi including keeping all the death camps.

I guess you'll never get it but all of the military brothels were under control of the imperialist military, more than 2,000 of them.

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Well at least we can put that to bed because even after the review, according to PM Abe remains without any revision. So if he can accept it then it shouldn't be too difficult for you too?

Yes. The issue is settled as the Korean government promised as per Kono statement review. It's sad that the Korean government cannot honor it.

As to the involvement of recruitment, the review states the following.

"Also, regarding the involvement of the military in the recruitment of the comfort women, the ROK requested wording that was equivalent to “the military or recruiters who were instructed by the military,” or in other words, that the recruitment was carried out by the military or that the military instructed other recruiters to do so. But the Japanese side considered that the recruitment was not carried out by the military, but mainly by recruiters who had done so based on the “intentions” of the military, and hence could not accept that the military were the main party that carried out the recruitment. Also, as the Japan side could not confirm that the military “instructed” the recruiters to carry out the recruitment, it proposed that the expression be changed to that the military “requested” the recruiters carry out the recruitment. In response to this, the ROK wanted the expression “ordered” used for the involvement of the military in both the establishment of the comfort stations and the recruitment of the comfort women, but the Japanese side did not accept it. Ultimately, it was decided on the wording that the comfort stations were established and managed"

which country and honouring which suffering are you actually referring to? In Germany, there are many monuments for the suffering caused by the Nazi including keeping all the death camps.

Another "mentioning of the Holocaust". You asked which country? My answer. Your country. Unless of course you yourself are revisionist who think your country has not caused any suffering to another state ever.

I guess you'll never get it but all of the military brothels were under control of the imperialist military, more than 2,000 of them.

There you go, making up numbers again. (inflating numbers)

http://www.awf.or.jp/1/facts-07.html

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nigelboy Jul. 25, 2014 - 03:00AM JST the Japan side could not confirm that the military “instructed” the recruiters to carry out the recruitment,

The history shows that main allegations had been proved in a Dutch court under Western rules of evidence as far back as 1948. That court, which had been convened in what was then the Dutch East Indies had considered allegations that Japanese army officers had forced many Dutch women seized in the Dutch East Indies into sexual slavery. One Japanese military official was executed and eleven other Japanese citizens were sentenced to jail terms. The Dutch went on in 1956 successfully to press the Japanese government to pay compensation to the women.

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The history shows that main allegations had been proved in a Dutch court under Western rules of evidence as far back as 1948. That court, which had been convened in what was then the Dutch East Indies had considered allegations that Japanese army officers had forced many Dutch women seized in the Dutch East Indies into sexual slavery. One Japanese military official was executed and eleven other Japanese citizens were sentenced to jail terms. The Dutch went on in 1956 successfully to press the Japanese government to pay compensation to the women.

sfjp330

I'm referring to the Korean comfort women since this is what the article is about.

I'm well aware of the Semarang case which is repeated ad nauseum as to somehow "prove" that this was going on everywhere by the IJA when it's merely an exception. Also not mentioned in your post is the fact that the IJA officer in charge was court marshalled by IJA when this was discovered further supporting that IJA never condoned such actions.

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@nigelboy

As you know, there has been effort that has been made over decades by successive J-governments to suppress the stories of the ‘comfort’ women, an effort which has been supported in the post-war period by the silence of U.S. and Allied nations. Few would dispute that this has been the case. Relevant documentation is difficult to obtain, due to the enduring classification of official Japanese military and ministerial documents from the period, as well as the fact that Japan has no freedom of information legislation to enable researchers to gain access. If Japan has nothing to hide, why don't J-goverment pass a freedom of information legislation?

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As you know,

I don't know. That's news to me. It seems these comfort women are quite vocal as they are making tours throughout the world including Japan just last year.

Relevant documentation is difficult to obtain, due to the enduring classification of official Japanese military and ministerial documents from the period,

Not really. That was what AWF worked for.

http://www.awf.or.jp/6/document.html

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nigelboy Jul. 25, 2014 - 03:21AM JST I'm well aware of the Semarang case which is repeated ad nauseum as to somehow "prove" that this was going on everywhere by the IJA when it's merely an exception. Also not mentioned in your post is the fact that the IJA officer in charge was court marshalled by IJA when this was discovered further supporting that IJA never condoned such actions.

The basis of the Dutch prosecution is the result of the Geneva Convention of 1929. While not a signatory to the convention, Japan had given a qualified promise to follow the Geneva rules in 1942, one of which prohibited forced prostitution of prisoners-of-war. The details regarding the rape of Dutch civilian women in 1942 were raised at the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal but this was only to provide evidence that crimes had been committed against Allied civilians. A more concrete example of the fixation with Western victims, the proceedings of the Batavia War Crimes Tribunal, which was conducted by Dutch authorities in 1948. Disappointingly, Indonesian, Filipino, or Korean 'comfort' women could not have similar status to the Dutch as prisoners-of-war during this period. The victimization of predominantly Asian 'comfort' women inevitably took second-place to other war crimes investigated and prosecuted by the Allies.

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nigelboy

Is it necessary? I don't see any monuments in your country honoring the suffering of foreign victims at the hands of your country's troops.

There are tens of thousands of war monuments in my birth country including those which remember those you suffered because of war. There are also other museums for remembering those events too and unlike the war museum at Yasukuni they don't tell just a one sided story. There are also museums for events like the slave trade. So your question is a mute point. Certainly, here in Japan there should be monuments to the suffering caused by the war.

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There are tens of thousands of war monuments in my birth country including those which remember those you suffered because of war. There are also other museums for remembering those events too and unlike the war museum at Yasukuni they don't tell just a one sided story. There are also museums for events like the slave trade. So your question is a mute point. Certainly, here in Japan there should be monuments to the suffering caused by the war.

You're confused. What I'm specifically talking about are war monuments and memorials dedicated to the "foreign" victims (former adversary nations) in your nation.

To put it simply,

"But where are the monuments in your country of all the various people who suffered at the hands of the your country's troops?

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nigelboy Jul. 25, 2014 - 04:57AM JST But where are the monuments in your country of all the various people who suffered at the hands of the your country's troops?

If you didn't know, 1.7 million Koreans and Korean-Americans are living in the U.S., and why is your goverment getting involved in a foreign countries monument? They could remember the history any way they like. Few years ago, two Japanese goverment officials visited Palisades Park, N.J., with a request that took local administrators by surprise, the Japanese wanted a small Korean Comfort Women monument removed from a public park. The Japanese government was willing to plant cherry trees in the borough, donate books to the public library “and do some things to show that we’re united in this world and not divided,” But the offer was contingent on the memorial’s removal.. After the refusal, the second delegation arrived and was led by four members of the Japanese Parliament. Their approach was less diplomatic. The politicians, members of the opposition LDP tried in asking that the monument be removed, to convince the Palisades Park authorities that comfort women had never been forcibly conscripted as sex slaves.

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nigelboy

To put it simply, But where are the monuments in your country of all the various people who suffered at the hands of the your country's troops?

It matters little to you where they are, what matters is that I have answered your question, yes there are monuments to various people who suffered. The list of monuments and museums is way to long to enter in a single comment.

And where are your monuments in Japan to those who suffered by your country' strops? There are none?

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It matters little to you where they are, what matters is that I have answered your question, yes there are monuments to various people who suffered. The list of monuments and museums is way to long to enter in a single comment.

Sigh. In other words, there are none in your country. Don't worry Zichi. This is a norm for most countries whose government doesn't like to sponsor their own military's misdeeds to other states civilians both past and present. They choose to honor the military instead.

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The list of monuments and museums is way to long to enter in a single comment.

In other words, there are none in your country

That response is a failure in logic if there ever was one.

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And another logic failure.

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I can think of no countries where monuments exist commemorating the civilians of another country who suffered at the hands of their own military. I am not surprised that zichi could not name any. I could not name any in the U.S.

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OssanAmerica and nigelboy

There are monumnrts to the holocaust in Germany, monuments to Indian massacres in America, monuments of aboriginal massacres in Australia, monuments to massacres of Maori in NZ.

Now, you might say that there are few monuments to victims of atrocities in these countries to people of other countries, but don't forget, apart from Germany no other country brought such mass murder and torture of foreign people in their own lands as much as Japan did.

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Apology by Japanese Govt. Why Suga went to JSDF Library after he yelled to a lawmaker he has a proof comfort woman existed in heating argument. Notice GIRL is mentioned. (not Woman) Also mentioned is sex slave.

Three Korean women filed suit in Japan in December, 1991, around the time of the 50th anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack, demanding compensation for forced prostitution. In 1992, documents which had been stored since 1958 when they were returned by United States troops and which indicated that the military had played a large role in operating what were euphemistically called "comfort stations" were found in the library of Japan's Self-Defense Agency. The Japanese Government admitted that the Japanese Army had forced tens of thousands of Korean women to have sex with Japanese soldiers during World War II. On January 14, 1992, Japanese Chief Government Spokesman Koichi Kato issued an official apology saying, "We cannot deny that the former Japanese army played a role" in abducting and detaining the "comfort girls," and "We would like to express our apologies and contrition". Three days later on January 17, 1992 at a dinner given by South Korean President Roh Tae Woo, the Japanese Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa told his host: "We Japanese should first and foremost recall the truth of that tragic period when Japanese actions inflicted suffering and sorrow upon your people. We should never forget our feelings of remorse over this. As Prime Minister of Japan, I would like to declare anew my remorse at these deeds and tender my apology to the people of the Republic of Korea." He apologized again the following day in a speech before South Korea's National Assembly On April 28, 1998, the Japanese court ruled that the Government must compensate the women and awarded them US$2,300 ($3,328 in 2014) each. In 2007, the surviving sex slaves wanted an apology from the Japanese government. Shinzō Abe, the prime minister at the time, stated on March 1, 2007, that there was no evidence that the Japanese government had kept sex slaves, even though the Japanese government had already admitted the use of coercion in 1993. On March 27 the Japanese parliament issued an official apology. On February 20, 2014, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said that the Japanese government may reconsider the study and the apology. However, Prime Minister Abe clarified on March 14, 2014 that he had no intention of renouncing or altering it.

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