politics

S Korea, Japan set for islands propaganda war

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"Lower the temperature"? With all this global warming? those island's will be under water by a decade or so anyway's...

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Instead of fighting a name calling battle that will accomplish nothing, why don't the parties involved get together and sign a real agreement. Seriously are a couple of rocks worth all the garbage from either side? That money being spent on propaganda could be spent better elsewhere maybe like getting housing for those hundred some odd thousands still in temporary housing from the Tsunami.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Shelving the issue is the best solution for territorial issues. Despite the disgraceful incidents such as footing on Japan's flag etc., it is rather fortunate that it does not develope into bombings as it happens often in other areas of the world.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

They are currently occupied by South Korea

Possession is 9/10 of the law. Most people who have no idea of the issue will figure that since the Koreans are already there, they should keep them.

Move on Japan, you've got bigger fish to fry.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Japan and Korea spending millions on full page newspapers ads around the world?

Won't that make riveting reading for everyone. I can just imagine my folks and their neighbors reading and getting in a tizz about all this. They'll probably organize a rally. Maybe a relay swim for OZ to Takeshima to lend their support.

Funny, I posed the following question to a couple of Japanese ladies yesterday. If Japan simply said to Korea, "Okay, it's yours", and forgot about it, what would change in your lives?

I don't think anyone has even thought about it. The strange thing is that one woman who was a mad Korean drama fanatic has totally gone off her Korean mania over this. Because "The Koreans hate us".

I feel like I'm living in a kindergarten these days.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Will some of the money go towards cracking down on bloggers? It was announced on tv that they arrested a 13 year old korean boy for posting that dokdo belonged to Japan on his blog.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Gaijin, you mean those islands with China? Or the ones with Russia? Or perhaps the economy?? ;)

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Paying for ads in 70 newspapers - why wasting money preaching to an already converted Japanese audience? If the govt continues wasting money like this they should also stop crying poor and increasing taxes then. Btw, funny how the situation regarding Dokdo,s possession is the opposite of Senkakus but Japan sees no irony in claiming both.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

So if someone wants a part-time job writing propaganda, where do they apply? Or should they start a small business, like "Propaganda R Us" first, and then send salespeople to the respective governments? Think of all the strange adjectives and nouns you could use, unavailable in other types of writing: glorious, thrice-cursed, etc.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The strange thing is that one woman who was a mad Korean drama fanatic has totally gone off her Korean mania over this. Because "The Koreans hate us".

So something positive is coming out of this after all.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Gaijin, you mean those islands with China? Or the ones with Russia? Or perhaps the economy?? ;)

-Economy

-Employment

-Fukushima

-Energy

-Debt

-Corrupt Politicians

-Birth Rates

-TPP

-Trade Balance

But yea, let's focus on these islands. That's more important. Interestingly, it's been pointed out that often times, when societies are in obvious decline (obvious to third parties, that is) they almost ALWAYS focus all their energy on trivial matters.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Matthew

My understanding is that the Japanese govermrnt wants to the matter to International court but the Korean government has refused. I am hoping the matter can be resolved peacefully and both countries can focus on being good neighbors.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Indeed Gaijin, indeed.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The only solution is common heritage, otherwise it's just more conflict, more propaganda, more hate, more divide, and in the end war.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The majority of people overseas have no idea and couldn't care less.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"The strange thing is that one woman who was a mad Korean drama fanatic has totally gone off her Korean mania over this. Because "The Koreans hate us". "

Haha! It's about time they woke up and smelled the kimchee. I've been saying for he past 10 years how stupid the Japanese K-drama fans (and now he K-pop fans) are because they love Koreans while the Koreans HATE them. Well thanks to Lee Myun Bak for at least setting things straight.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Take the case to the ICJ first.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I hate my tax dollars being wasted on this kind of garbage.

Two strong leaders from both countries need to sit down and work out arrangements for co-ownership.

This issue has been nothing but non-stop reactionary politics. Some pro-active leadership would be refreshing.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The Korea-Japan island disputes aren’t all that unusual. In fact, the latest dispute is merely pattern of increases in disagreements over interpretations of history. There are important issues at stake, the interpretations of modern history that affect perceptions of national identity, pride, justice, and trustworthiness. For many in Korea, Japanese claims to the islands are seen as lack of reflection about the Japan’s colonial past. It’s true that right now, neo-nationalist organizations in Japan seem to have gained momentum with these groups often spewing towards South Korea and Korean residents in Japan. However, the two countries remain mutually key sources of trade and sources of investment. Travelers from Japan top the list of tourists entering South Korea, while South Korean tourists are one of the largest visitors to Japan. There are countless other bilateral cultural, educational, economic, political, and even military exchanges. Both countries can't move, and they needs to work out the differences.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

"The Japanese ministry said it was asking the central government to set aside 560 million yen to promote its side of the argument over the islands, along with other territorial disputes."

And yet they may run out of money by the end of October (or so they threaten), and have yet to STILL help many people who remain in shelters in Fukushima.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Ossan: "Haha! It's about time they woke up and smelled the kimchee. I've been saying for he past 10 years how stupid the Japanese K-drama fans (and now he K-pop fans) are because they love Koreans while the Koreans HATE them."

What's 'stupid' would be to automatically hate something you might otherwise like simply because some people from the nation those products come from dislike you and your nation. Perhaps the 'stupid Japanese K-drama fans' just like the dramas and don't care about the politics between the nations.

Food for thought. Tough one for you to see, I know, with your irrational and seething hatred of all things Korean, but there you go.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

This island thing is so stupid. Why not just open the islands up between both countries and treat it like a free trade zone....sort of like a Tourist Spot where items can be purchased from both countires without respective taxes, and no passports would be necessary for patron from both counties. As for the territorial issue? Who cares. If its fishing, then the early bird gets the worm.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Y2 billion wasted yesterday to purchase islands they will never use and Y560 million wasted today on propaganda. These are the kinds of things the increased consumption tax will be wasted on.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Nice to see that the government are spending money on the right things.........

3 ( +4 / -1 )

AFP, please don't use the word "WAR" so haphazardly, very unprofessional.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

What's stupid is young Korean people who weren't even born till the 80s and 90s "hating" Japan because they're taught to do so.

Gotta agree with Ossan here. Compared to Japan, the Koreans are cry-babies, always throwing hissy fits about something or other. Japanese politicians are little better, but at least the majority of the Japanese public are adult enough to not get worked up about this.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Until recent times I had enjoyed how little the Japanese government and people talked about/fought over the Liancourt Rocks, in comparison to their Korean counterparts which feel the need to remind themselves and the world of their possession at every available chance. Guess that is a thing of the past.

Why are we not hearing more about the tsunami victims protesting against the government for all this meaningless money wasting? Why are people not up in arms in the streets over the raising of consumption tax when so much money is being blown away? When will the people of this nation wake up?

Spending money on propaganda both at home and abroad is completely pointless. I'm sure 99% of the population of Japan and Korea already believe it is theirs, and people outside the two countries can easily see the banality of the issue, therefore resulting in no action. Whoever is coming up with these budget proposals and the one who is approving them needs to be fired immediately.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Propaganda is a short, repeated message. Propaganda is a short, repeated....

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"What's stupid is young Korean people who weren't even born till the 80s and 90s "hating" Japan because they're taught to do so."

It's not wrong for Koreans to learn about their own history. And it would help a lot if Japanese took just a little time to learn Korean history of the 20th century, and their role in it.

No demonizing, just a simple understanding of how countries see each other.

The media is to blame for continually saying that "Koreans are TAUGHT to hate Japanese".

Japanese have so little knowledge of 20th century history. Instead of just simply learning about it they can always just hide behind "Chinese and Koreans are taught to hate japanese".

Just a little knowledge of history of other countries (esp your neighbors) would go a long way.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Am not aware of any Japanese plans to take the rocks by force. This is more hysterics from Korea as normal.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It's a good idea. Believe or not most of the Japanese are not well informed about the island issues over Senkaku or Takeshima. It is best to educate the Japanese first so that they/we can understand the policies proposed by the government. Koreans and Chinese have so much government propaganda instilled in them, it would take 100years before they can see the issues more objectively.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

In this day and age when Japan seems to be on its last legs, it's reassuring to see that the government is happy to throw hard earned taxes down the toilet.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Currently the only people happy are the right wing extremists at both ends and the global PR agencies. Clear root cause being President Lee only, agree everyone should simply cool down. At least the President himself seems to have now realized the impact of the commotion he has created (in Japan in particular which I don't think is something he originally anticipated) and seems to be trying what he can to contain the situation at his end. Also good to hear that many of the Korean politicians too are not wishing for the matter to escalate any further. Once done with the elections and with new leadership in place at both ends, pretty sure things will gradually return to normal, and the unsigned agreement by both ends to simply "not touch" the issue will be maintained. Do believe something needs to be done with the continued tendency for the Korean presidency to dramatically revise their stance towards Japan as their term nears the end however.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Koreans and Chinese have so much government propaganda instilled in them, it would take 100years before they can see the issues more objectively.

My irony alarm is sounding at full volume here...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Instead of crying for a little piece of rock in a pound of water, I think Japan should first resolve the problems with Fukushima and all the people which lost their homes, towns in the tsunami. Common now...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

for japan, these rocks have no meaning except for japanese fishermen. but for south korea, these are symbol of korean histories that the rocks are only one experience which korea had invaded and robbed a territory from japan. japan had allowed south korea using them for domestic conservatives to please them as if stronger than japan which makes south korean ease from unstable life and also its good for japan and US that the south korea performs as a wall from communism. however, Lee's surprised visit to the rocks was not able to be allowed that could make china and russia assume that japan would do nothing even if any dispute areas are invaded.

its better that japan gives those rocks to south korea and US announces to defend japan from any other countries.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Those "rocks" establish fishing and mineral rights that are no small amounts. Mutual ownership and trade would be a good way to go instead of this endless bickering. Would set a good precedent, too.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan has a territorial dispute with South Korea over Takeshima/Dokdo. The Japanese propose letting an international court decide. The South Koreans say no way. The Japanese criticze the South Koreans for their stance.

The Taiwanese and Chinese should make the same proposal to the Japanese regarding Senkaku/Daioyu. The Phillipines could join in as well. They should suggest to Japan that the dispute should be resolved by an international court. Of course, that would cause Gov. Ishihara, etc. to have a kanipshin bubbula and the Japanese would say no way making them no better than the South Koreans.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It seems like Japan, S Korea, China, Taiwan and Philippines have become the first victims of the so called US return.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

papasmurfinjapan: "Japanese politicians are little better, but at least the majority of the Japanese public are adult enough to not get worked up about this."

They SHOULD be worked up about it -- but not in the sense you mean, of course. They should be worked up that the government is wasting so much time and money and promising yet more of both when there are SO many domestic problems that need focus on and money put towards, namely reconstruction in the wake of last year's disasters. They should stand up and rightly demand that the government focus on what's really important; they're never going to unite the people by redirecting focus to a few meaningless islands.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Taiwan, Korea and China are all in the wrong on all these island issues. Time for Japan to get aggressive over these issues. and take back the Kuriles while we are at it.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I know some Koreans and Chinese, these people are great people, they don't hate us as a matter of fact they love to come to Japan and spend money in Japan helping our economy, Its only a small group of politicians that fighting for their own incentives that is driving this divide between our countries.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Ossan

I vouch that a lot of mainsteam Japanese are over their love affair with Korea, and China too for that matter. I support a firm stance by Japan but hope for a diplomatic solution for all territorial disputes.

Yes, it's quite obvious that some countries are more loony than others (at least that's how they are portrayed in their own media), but I'm hoping cool heads will prevail.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Speed I hate my tax dollars being wasted on this kind of garbage. Two strong leaders from both countries need to sit down and work out arrangements for co-ownership. This issue has been nothing but non-stop reactionary politics. Some pro-active leadership would be refreshing.

You will be supprise - Russia&China had such dispute about common border a strong one

But as you say 2 strong liders Hu Jintao and Vladimir Putin have sign an agreement and Russia cede to China 337 square kilometers of disputed territory The dispute ended. Russia and China remained friends. The key point - this question was discussed behind closed doors. And nobody burned Russian or Chineese flags... no hate ...no insults

Russia&China - two "non democratic lands "

S Korea & Japan - two so-called " democracy" TM

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

alliswellinjapan: "Clear root cause being President Lee only"

Ummm... no. Why did Lee do it? Because he was making a statement with regards to Japan's white-washed text-books and stance on sexual slavery. Ergo, cause and effect. It just happened to be one of the higher profile examples of political rhetoric. It takes two to tango, and two or more for an island dispute -- this is not one-sided, and no one person or event caused the current tensions. Or, what, per se, do you think has caused the increased tensions with the Senkaku/Daiyo dispute?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The spokesman refused to give a breakdown, but Yonhap news agency quoted an unidentified ministry official as saying the money would primarily be used for a worldwide publicity drive

I can understand Japan's position on spending money for world wide publicity for since Korea rejected Japan's request for ICJ, their aim is pressure them to oblige to Japan's request through external pressures but what's the reasoning behind Korea? If they think they have a case, they should spend that money towards the legally challenging Japan's claims. The conclusion is simple. Korea has no case for they are clearly occupied the territory illegally during the 50's.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

http://www.mt.co.kr/view/mtview.php?type=1&no=2012083108223255359

It states here that Korean Communications Standards Commission decided to sanction against blogs or contents that praise Japan while denouncing Korea.

On a related note, Korean officials have arrested a 13 year old for setting up pro Japan blog site depicting photograph of burnt Korean flag. He stated that the so-called independence movement had very little to do with Korea's independence was primary due to Allieds pressure on Japan to surrender the peninsula.

http://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/6926703/

This is what happens when the entire nation is fed with such government sponsored BS that feeds anti-Japan education.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

http://www.mt.co.kr/view/mtview.php?type=1&no=2012083108223255359

It states here that Korean Communications Standards Commission decided to sanction against blogs or contents that praise Japan while denouncing Korea.

On a related note, Korean officials have arrested a 13 year old for setting up pro Japan blog site depicting photograph of burnt Korean flag. He stated that the so-called independence movement had very little to do with Korea's independence was primary due to Allieds pressure on Japan to surrender the peninsula.

http://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/6926703/

This is what happens when the entire nation is fed with such government sponsored BS that feeds anti-Japan education.

And they proudly call themselves a democratic state.

How is that?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

nigelboy: Once more. SK doesn't need to acknowledge Japan's wish for an ICJ ruling because they consider it Korean territory, the same way Gemba and many other Japanese have stated, matter of fact, "There is no issue with the Senkakus because they are Japanese territory". Korea doesn't have to dispute their own ownership, unlike Japan having to buy 'their' own islands in other cases. It's quite funny to watch you squirm on said issues.

SamuraiBlue: "And they proudly call themselves a democratic state."

Yeah, unlike Japan, where the losers of one party are the dropouts of another party, and the people are helpless to find something better. And those morons in question steal money from people who suffer to make illegal island visitations and beg for the Olympics because they are victims. You want to define pathetic, start from home and work upwards. But hey.... it won't tell you all this in the white-washed texts to read, so you are you to exercise free will and check out the facts?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

nigelboy: Once more. SK doesn't need to acknowledge Japan's wish for an ICJ ruling because they consider it Korean territory, the same way Gemba and many other Japanese have stated, matter of fact, "There is no issue with the Senkakus because they are Japanese territory". Korea doesn't have to dispute their own ownership, unlike Japan having to buy 'their' own islands in other cases. It's quite funny to watch you squirm on said issues.

Never did. You simply fail to understand the fundamental difference in that there is NO DISPUTE from Japan's side since China has never suggested to ICJ. If by remote chance that China does this and Japan refuses then you can scream all you want about the hypocricy. Until then, your absurd comparisons are MOOT.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

And they proudly call themselves a democratic state.

They're not. Their country is not even allowed to have an opposing view for god sakes. It's what happens when you whitewash and distort history to a point where the government's fearful of this exposure including this Takeshima dispute where they omit the government took the islands by force illegally. Hence, their only option is to spend money on this ridiculous counter argument publicity campaign while continuing to cloud the issue by amplifying their anti-Japan rhetoric.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

http://news.nate.com/view/20120826n02360

Over 70% of the elementary school teachers in Korea doesn't know the background of the current Korea's administration of the islands. Classic example of a by product of their degenerate one government issued textbook whitehwashing/distorted history policy. Pathetic population.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Guru29, It’s better than bully by Communist Chinese Government. Communist Chinese Government is crazy enough to claim all beaches in South East Asia as its territory. I though Communist leader's advisers are crazy peoples when I look at map which marks on Communist Chinese Government claims territory. I think you must be one of staff from Communist Chinese Embassy in Japan or somewhere else in the world.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Looks like Nigelboy is going back to his racist rants.

"pathetic population". That is inferring a whole population is pathetic , almost on a par with his noodle eating posts.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Nationalism is a huge problem in Asia. It's absolutely true that both in China and South-Korea there's an anti-Japanese education. Of course, Japanese historical revisionism is bad and it's right to blame it, but I almost never see people blaming anti-Japanese education in those countries. And if you think this is good: http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1550&st=0 well you are only biased.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Also, In South-Korea you can see this kind of cartoon at cinema: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFG1pGKUSMQ How "cute"...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

South Korea obviously has no confindence in winning before the ICJ. They stooped to illegal occupation and shameslessly keep evading settling the issue before a neutral forum. Japan most certainly should let the world know what cowards Koreans are. As for South Korea, they will spend a fortune on the same thing that they've been doing, simply arguing that it's theirs. Oh and they'll be harping on the "comfort women" and having been a colony for a whole whopping 35 years. The US was a British Colony for 169 years. India about 190 years. And finally for those intellectually challenged who keep attepting to equate South Korewas position opn Takeshima/ Liancourt Rocks and Japan's position on the Senkakus, Japan can not take itself to the ICJ. Countries that have a claim must do that.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

And finally for those intellectually challenged who keep attepting to equate South Korewas position opn Takeshima/ Liancourt Rocks and Japan's position on the Senkakus, Japan can not take itself to the ICJ. Countries that have a claim must do that.

Which is why I posted yesterday at 2:35 pm:

"Japan has a territorial dispute with South Korea over Takeshima/Dokdo. The Japanese propose letting an international court decide. The South Koreans say no way. The Japanese criticze the South Koreans for their stance.

The Taiwanese and Chinese should make the same proposal to the Japanese regarding Senkaku/Daioyu. The Phillipines could join in as well. They should suggest to Japan that the dispute should be resolved by an international court. Of course, that would cause Gov. Ishihara, etc. to have a kanipshin bubbula and the Japanese would say no way making them no better than the South Koreans. "

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@aisai

Let's see what will happen IF and when that happens and I emphsises the IF part since Taiwan had more than 70 years and PRC 60 to file a suit to ICJ which had not happened to this moment.

Kind of over due don't you think?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Let's see what will happen IF and when that happens and I emphsises the IF part since Taiwan had more than 70 years and PRC 60 to file a suit to ICJ which had not happened to this moment.

It's not about filing suit. It's about both governments stating their dispute to U.S., U.N., or any neutral state (Switzerland) for those periods. Their silence basically proves that Japan incorporated them under terra nullius.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Let's see what will happen IF and when that happens and I emphsises the IF part since Taiwan had more than 70 years and PRC 60 to file a suit to ICJ which had not happened to this moment. Kind of over due don't you think?

IF Taiwan et al did finally after all these years request that this dispute be resolved, how do you think the Japanese Government and people would respond? Would they say "sure, let's do it"? Or, would use the same line of reasoning that South Korea is using regarding Takeshima/Dokdo? That's the big IF I am wondering about.

It's not about filing suit. It's about both governments stating their dispute to U.S., U.N., or any neutral state (Switzerland) for those periods. Their silence basically proves that Japan incorporated them under terra nullius.

Can't South Korea use the same argument? We claimed these islands, they were unoccupied, we occupied them so now they are ours under terra nullius? If the Japanese wanted them then they should've occupied them.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Definitely bad business. Japan should relinquish their claim for Korea's sake, since they're never getting the (illegally occupied, from the standpoint of the legal framework of the post WWII era) islands back. The Koreans just say "we never signed the Treaty of San Francisco and don't recognize the Rusk Documents" (which proves that the US thought of the islands of Japan's territory). Just write them off though, as being "hit back" by SK after the bad things they did during WWII. Now if we all get are damn wives to stop watching Hanryu doramas 24 hours a day...

China is a more difficult situation. Japan's claims is pretty good from 1895 and it was legally administered from that point, but the issue of "are islands part of Taiwan and thus had to revert to them" is hard to define, and the 1895 treaty was specifically voided by San Francisco. OTOH, the islands were taken by the U.S. and returned legally to Japan in 1972, again as part of the legal and treaty framework of WWII. In the eyes of America and all the Allies, they were legally Japan's, which was confirmed by the most powerful nation in the world. And Japan has "possession" (as SK does of Dokdo), hence unless there's an invasion by the Chinese military things should continue as they are.

ANY country should reconsider whether it wants to tie its future to a brawling nation of nationalists like China however. I hope we see a lot of investment in the reasonable countries around Asia, e.g. Philippines, Thailand, India. I will never set foot on China as a result of their brash ways (though I'll go to Taiwan and spend lots of tourist dollars).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

And if you want to laugh at South Korea, here is how they brand themselves around the world (as a Japanese company):

http://peterpayne.com/post/31852676851/branding-korean-companies-as-japanese-in-the-eyes

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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