S Korean president urges Japan to compensate Korean wartime sex slaves

Not only is the South Korean government ignoring the 1965 treaty agreed to by an earlier adminstriation, abd not taking any responsibility towards it's own people, but there is no gurantee whatsover that any compensation or apology would end this issue. In fact the reverse holds true, by doing so it sets a precedent and opens the floodgates to more claims both regarding the comfort women issue and unrelated ones. I doubt that the South Korean government could indemnify the Japanese government from such endless further claims. Truth is alot of people all over the world suffered during WWII, and sorry to say, a great great many in much much worse ways than these comfort women who survived in one piece to be able to demand compensation 70 years later. .

In 2005, on the 40th anniversary of the 1965 treaty to normalize relations between Japan and South Korea, the Korean side released details of the agreement to the public.

South Korea received a total of $800 million from Japan: 300 million in grant money and 500 million in low-interest loans and private credits from Japanese companies to help with economic development. (I've seen various estimates of the value of the deal in today's money. I guess it would be somewhere in the several billions of dollars.) South Korea used the money to develop its economy, much of it on infrastructure, and didn't seem concerned at all about helping individuals more than 40 years ago.

The language of the deal makes it explicitly clear that South Korea agreed to demand no more compensation from Japan, including for individuals. As such, I see South Korea as having no leg to stand on in this renewed call for money for sex slaves from the country.

I'm not making excuses for Japan. I think there were many women throughout Asia brutally treated by the Japanese. The Japanese government has often tried to downplay or even deny the actions of its military long ago. And the now-defunct Asian Women's Fund did very little for the victims too.

But South Korea is trying to renege on the agreement and play the victim card one too many times here.

Japan has paid compensation to the Korean government. The legal Korean government of the time. Thus Korea needs to pay any compensation.

They've paid, they've apologized. Perhaps this man should go back and read the agreements from 1965? Pathetic for the government to now start in on this. I for one hope Japan doesn't pay anymore - while I feel for the women, the governments settled this and as someone mentioned, paying or apologizing again sets a very slippery slope for others to make claims. Besides, we all know they don't give a flying f*** about an apology, it is all about the money.

@HolaKitty:

I don't think there has been anyone post yet who doesn't believe that terrible things were done to many Asian women by the Japanese for decades up to 1945. I also doubt that anyone here believes the Japanese have ever sincerely apologized for what was done. What evidence that existed as to the state's involvement with this was probably burned after the war, or remains hidden away in archives inaccessible to the public.

Discussion about Yasukuni and Class A/B/C war criminals enshrined there, and how the Tokyo Trials and others determined who was guilty and their punishment, has nothing to do with this particular issue.

The 1965 treaty between Japan and South Korea states unequivocally that South Korea would not demand additional compensation. This was agreed to 20 years after the war. If you read about it, you will find that the S. Korean gov't had a responsibility to use money to compensate individuals who suffered at the hands of the Japanese. S. Korea chose almost entirely to use the money on economic development.

Japan has no moral obligation to provide additional compensation to South Korea. And the South Korean gov't is hypocritical for asking for more, using this issue for political expediency.

HolaKittyDec. 18, 2011 - 11:57AM JST What I do know as a lawyer is that laws are rarely clear cut and are often subject to interpretation. I would be >interested to know if at the time, the two governments specifically discussed "comfort women" or if they only talked >about compensation for other forms of forced service.

As an attorney I am sure you have no ambiguty with the term "double billing".

@holakitty

I think the key issue here is whether these women fall within the scope of the treaty. People are taking it as if it's a fact that the 1965 compensation covers these women.

From Patrick Hattman's first post:

The language of the deal makes it explicitly clear that South Korea agreed to demand no more compensation from Japan, including for individuals.

The compensation was paid by Japan to Korea. It was then Korea's governmental responsibility to pass on monies received to its own citizens, the relevant individuals. That would include the so-called comfort women. The comfort women should therefore be protesting to their own government for the money their own government received, but apparently didn't pay to them.

Japan (the aggressor) has paid compensation to Korea (the victim). It cannot be held responsible for the witholding of monies by the Korean government. That is an internal issue for South Korea to deal with.

Japan as a nation has a moral obligation to provide compensation. They have already provided the compensation. Perhaps you missed the last paragraph of the article and the comment referring to this and 1965?

I also think that if you speak to average Japanese people, they are shocked at what their government and soldiers did during the war.

There is no point in trying to force an apology. It is like when parents force a kid to say sorry when the kid doesn't really want to. There is zero point to it. Japan could make a million apologizes and only would be doing so because they've been told they "have" to. I don't doubt that they ARE sorry but will never give a heartfelt one if they are forced to do it.

I also have no idea what being a women has to do with the degree of sympathy one gives to the situation and these women.

Patrick, great post!

The atrocities committed are horrible, but I feel in light of the 1965 compensation treaty, there is only one government that owes these poor women (monetary) compensation........South Korea. Having spent the money on other things to develop their country is a choice they made, But the onus is still upon them to provide compensation to the women because they agreed to close all issues under dispute with Japan henceforth. The women need to take up the monetary issue with their own government. Now demanding compensation makes South Korea look money grubbing and paints them as deal breakers. On the other hand, seeking sincere apologies and contriteness from Japan is still within their purvey. Admitting to these atrocities and showing a gesture (non-monetary wise) of genuine contriteness would go a long way to smoothing relations and closing old wounds between the two nations. Sadly, it will never happen. Japan wouldn't allow such an embarrassing public display in front of the international eyes.

@OssanAmerica,

If you do not agree with my comment, please provide a counterargument. If your reasoning makes better sense, more power to you. I do not mind. But please do not resort to personal attacks. That is low.

I think the key issue here is whether these women fall within the scope of the treaty. People are taking it as if it's a fact that the 1965 compensation covers these women. But, if the Japanese government do not even admit the existence of these women, how could they have provided for compensation in the treaty? And what about North Korean women, and women from other Asian countries?

You mean settling the conflict on a national/diplomatic level, right? The thorny problem is that national government’s attitude and perception fundamentally skew the public understanding of the issue for many years, rendering compensation as the end in itself—rather than the means to an end. Sadly, it just serves as hush money to silence the victims because it’s a great embarrassment to a national government. This is exactly the reason for establishing a controversial Asian Women Fund, which ended up in defunct due to the flaws in its strategic framework for fund-raising and political correctness. I personally don’t believe both governments are capable of hammering out the solution through financial means, unless they are willing to change their bureaucratic attitude on the issue involving culture/gender sensitivity.

Even though it's true that Japanese government had a sex slaves in the past, S.Korean leader uses this topics to promote the nationality and get the nations attention to him. It's because his approval rate is getting lower these days. There is no point to try talking for this short time in this visit. Hopefully we will have to set up the official discussion bet two countries to finalize the talk. Bet two countries, we spent a lot of time over almost 70yrs and it's not fair that S.Korean leader and other countries use this sensitive topics as a means to raise their approval rate for short term !!!

Japan already did compensate them. The S Koreans are being greedy again.

HolaKittyDec. 18, 2011 - 02:35PM JST @OssanAmerica, If you do not agree with my comment, please provide a counterargument. If your reasoning makes better sense, >more power to you. I do not mind. But please do not resort to personal attacks. That is low.

To what "personal attack" are you making reference? Please clarify.

I think the key issue here is whether these women fall within the scope of the treaty. People are taking it as if it's a >fact that the 1965 compensation covers these women. But, if the Japanese government do not even admit the >existence of these women, how could they have provided for compensation in the treaty? And what about North >Korean women, and women from other Asian countries?

Compensation was made to include those who suffered. I don't see howe you can exclude the comfort women. Not being specifical;ly named is irrelevant because no other groups of individuals who suffered are specifically named either. What is fact is that this money ended up being directed elsewhere by te South Korean government. The Japanese government does not deny the existence of these women. Japan does not maintain diplomatic relations with North Korea, and the heads of stateof other nations have not raised a comfort women issue at state level with Japan so both references have little to do with this article.

Michael Jun Sung ShimDec. 18, 2011 - 09:34PM JST Thing is OssanAmerica nothing will ever satisfy the Koreans. Both sides are to blame for current impasse

I agree 100% with the above. The question is how can the two nations reach a solution in light of that. Japan and South Korea are the leading economic democratic powers in Asia and both are US Allies. There is an enormous amount of not just trade but cultural exchange between them. The best objective minds of both countries shoiuld work at this or North Korea wil use it to get away with killing more South Koreans and China to bully both nations.

So it's OK for Japan to get away with heinous crimes committed by Japanese soldiers to comfort women and Korea is the bad guy for being a victim. I haven't seen anyway who said anything near what you suggested. Perhaps you're being too emotional? You're whole rant is way off base if you've actually read what many of us have written.

Yuri, you can't tell people to "get over it". I commented on this before - if Japan wants to tell Korea to "get over it" Japan needs to get over Nagasaki, Hiroshima and trying to be the victim with regards to world war two. You're trying to be the victim in your opening sentence for god's sake. The 'price" Japan made was at the hands of its emperor and military. If you want someone to blame, blame your country, not others. The dear price you paid was down to greed. Korea paid for YOUR country's greed. So did many others.

Don't hold your breath.

@Patrick Hattman Excellent post!

The point is not to force any apologies. Apologies without sincerity are cheap anyways. The point is to learn from the mistake, repent and move on.

Of course being a woman has something to do with the plight of the comfort women. Sexual violence against women is probably one of the most horrific forms of violence. I was appalled to read that certain Japanese politicians and the Yasukuni shrine's website (at least when I visited it a few years back) essentially labeled the women as liars.

I have not read the full text of the treaty. I do not know for sure if the scope of the treaty covers the "comfort women." What I do know as a lawyer is that laws are rarely clear cut and are often subject to interpretation. I would be interested to know if at the time, the two governments specifically discussed "comfort women" or if they only talked about compensation for other forms of forced service.

The issue was a non-issue when the treaty of 1965 was concluded. But later South Korea began to say it's a sex slavery and demand for formal apology and compensation from the Japanese government. Actually the South Korean government paid money as "life support money" to South Korean comfort women who didn't (want to) receive money from the Asian Women's Fund which the Japanese government set up to compensate for the comfort women. But the money the Fund paid to the women was not disbursed by the Japanese government but donated by the people nationwide and abroad. So the Koreans regarded it as private donation and not formal compensation from the state of Japan. But the Japanese government cannot pay from its national coffer since they didn't pay anything to Japanese comfort women. Nor anybody has asked for it either. Does Lee Myung-Bak know the background and still pursue the matter?

Japan paid a dear price for the war. A country in ruin, over 7 million dead. Then there were the war criminals hung over 1000 of them. The thing was settled in 1965 with the treaty. Compensation was paid and it should of ended things. As for apologizing the people of Okinawa never received one for the Japanese soldiers killing and raping. No compensation was ever paid. To the people of Korea, GET OVER IT! You have your freedom from Japan, not every one can claim that.

“Unless we resolve this issue, Japan will have the burden of being unable to resolve (the) outstanding issue… forever,” South Korea’s Yonhap news agency quoted Lee as saying.

Where does this"WE" fit in? IF it was between governments, then there is already an agreement laid down as many poster had already pointed out, if it means "WE" as in both governments should pay then I believe an apology by the SK government towards the victims for skimming their share of compensation should be first before making any request towards Japan.

Whichever the case Lee and SK in general shows how weak they are in comprehending what binding agreements between sovereign nation are. In which case most nations would probably have second thoughts in tying future trade agreements with them.

You can talk about 1965 treaties, legalities, etc. until you're blue in the face, but the bottom line is Japan can completely bury the issue, right now, and move on.

Japan paid the compensation in 1965 not the fault of the Japanese if your previous government failed to use it correctly. So Mr Lee only talk about what your supposed to on this visit.

It always puzzles me how nobody suggests that Japanese comfort women who accounted for 60 percent of the comfort women and worked almost in the same condition are compensated.

Sorry, should read, "be compensated" eaqually.

Hola, didn't you say you didn't read the treaty? You're making comments about something you don't seem to have much knowledge about and then make comments about being a lawyer - which comes off as thinking you're better than the rest of us but rather silly since you don't seem to know what you're discussing. Perhaps you could read the treaty then make the comments about what it does or does not include?

or if they only talked about compensation for other forms of forced service. Not all of the women were forced into this. Again, perhaps you should do a little more reading.

Again, I am also going to call you out on the female thing. It has nothing to do with being sympathetic to these women. Many of the posters on here are male and are also expressing sympathy. Your reply to my first comment about this and what you wrote in your second doesn't match at all.

Sex slaves are separate matter, and should be treated as such. Why are they a separate matter? Many of the males that came to work here suffered the same fate with illness, death and their body being violated.

According to " Bushido ", sincerity is paramount in every action and purpose. Follow the path !! or may be Japan has forgotten the way since .....................

Michael Jun Sung ShimDec. 18, 2011 - 08:39PM JST I am Korean!! Why not just compensate money & apology to comfort women and call it a day??

Would you pay for the same thing twice? Or would you say, "I already paid for that"?

Great post, Patrick. Once again Korea is continuing to play victim. Nothing new here.

I think these former comfort women could renew our attention to the need for preventing human trafficking of women into Japan.

As for compensation, show of pity for these women who were denied compensation from the Park Chung-Hee's regime and its successors might be nicest thing to do.

Japan should issue a heartfelt apology and offer compensation, but on the terms S Korea demands. Don't let it be a repeat of 1965. Let's be done with this once and for all and move on.

Oh please, mr. Lee ! Let it go! That Japan during WWII is not the same Japan as today. Those Japanese people were going against the nature of Japan and the Japanese people of today had nothing to do with those incidents. Besides, under the rule of Hideki Tojo the most victimized country is not even a consideration today. the most victimized country during those campaigns is in fact Japan! So, if Japan was going to compansate victims of the war they would start with Japan. So, let the war go it's over and doesn't matter any more. Everybody needs to let go of the past!

In case some of you don't understand what I wrote, the 1965 compensation was based on figures concerning slave labor, conscripts and other matters EXCLUDING the sex slaves. Japan paid compensation money, yes, but NOT for the sex slaves. Sex slaves are separate matter, and should be treated as such.

I think the key issue here is whether these women fall within the scope of the treaty. People are taking it as if it's a fact that the 1965 compensation covers these women.

The treaty was supposed to function in that way. The problem, however, is that the gender was/is a common vocabulary in neither government at the time of 1965 Treaty due to masculine character of ideological warfare culminated into anti-communism and anti-Vietnam War movement. South Koreans have claimed many times that Japan owed compensation to the victims based on bi-lateral framework, while conveniently ignored the contexts for which the accounts of victims were constructed. Remember the South Korean government was the one who got blamed by the victims for neglecting the issue--in the late 1980s. Indeed, the SK regime didn't blame Japan on this when the female victims divulged their shady pasts for the first time.

Are they finger-pointing Japan as solely responsible for the issue? It sounds more like shoving off the blame of gender insensitivity on your partner by refusing to admit your role in neglecting the issue. That's why we hear such an axiom like "Man cannot speak for her." It’s ironic that Japan and South Korea are very similar in this respect.

Lee didn't fly here and eat those radioactive strawberries for nothing. He performed for the Japanese government and now he expects it to perform something for him. I'm not the first one to say this by any means but the position of Japan's government, military, and bureaucracy about the war has always been "We're sorry we lost." The Japanese position is that war is regrettable because Korea forced Japan to take it over, China and America forced Japan to attack, and Japan lost, and Japanese died. Legally Japan has settled the matter, but China and Korea will be able to continue using the war as a political tool as long as Japan's rulers hold these beliefs.

typo Japan gives money not me

Thinking it over more, it seems that at this point South Korea deserves the initial criticism and complaint from the women on this matter. They neglected specification of their comfort women in the 1965 treaty and then practically so in regard to the immediate use of the reparation funds from Japan at the time for nation building. But by now, the South Korean infrastructure and economy are in such a better position that they should have no problem paying the ladies as belated from those reparation funds. Shouldn't they take better care of their own people before asking Japan for greater redress.

Still, if Japan went the extra mile, I would be very interested to see how it affects relations. It could be very positive and, if not, it could still be useful as a reference point for addressing any other claims of similar "social reassurance" nature in the future to better decline. Hold a meeting and listen to the ladies. Then acknowledge how inhumane such actions were and how unhappy it is that they were caught up in such a way during that difficult time, remind them of the reparations made and then reassure them that Japan is fully committed to not allow such violations to occur again. Then, end the meeting and distribute funds directly to the ladies (5-10k?). Of course this is of no legal necessity, but it would be humanitarian, high culture and possibly a boon. The only thing remaining, though, is that this would not settle the last part of the women's request regarding Japanese textbooks on the matter, and it would be too bad if Korea gave Japan much trouble on that point latter as though Japan had not already gone above and beyond. In that case, relations could become worse instead of better, but to prevent that, I suppose that Japan could make the meeting conditional upon agreement that how much is said on the issue in Japanese textbooks will be done at the sole discretion of the people of Japan. Would the comfort women accept that?

tmarie, sure I can write that and Korea is lucky. South Korea is an independent country and able to make its own decisions. Okinawa is part of Japan with our language and culture being snuffed out. Our language has first become a dialect and then soon gone. Almost nobody under 50 can speak it. Again GET OVER IT!!! Korea was a part of Japan during the war. It shares the same level of responsibility of Okinawa. Japan paid the South Korean government, so they need to ask them for payment.

What a nerve. Shameless !

As a woman, and as someone who has read about the "comfort women", I am horrified by some of the comments here.

The greater issue with Japan's war time atrocity is not that the Koreans or Chinese do not want to let go of the past, rather it is they know deep down inside, the Japanese do not believe they did anything wrong, and do not give a damn about the suffering they inflicted on their neighbors.

The contrast between Germany's contriteness and Japan's wishy washy apologies could not be greater (i.e. apologies followed by leading politicians visiting a shrine that honors Class A war criminals which renders the apologies rather meaningless and insulting).

Anyways, it's sad that Japan is letting its false sense of pride getting in the way of doing what is right. Even if these women do not have legal standing at this moment, Japan as a nation has a moral obligation to provide compensation. I for one will tell my children the story of WWII, and remind them that people make mistakes, but what's more important, and what separates morally strong people from morally weak ones, is the courage to admit mistake and correct the mistake.

Honestly, something could have occurred. Let's not insult them any further, though we need not compensate in the least. On the other hand, Korea has to grown up a bit. It's rather another crime what they've been remarking now and then.

I am Korean!! Why not just compensate money & apology to comfort women and call it a day?? Japan gives me money to them and in return Korean comfort women promise not to bring up the apology and compensation issues again.Plus Japan holds trillions of U.S.dollars in its cash reserve..Giving compensation money to them will not be detrimental to Japanese economy since the amount of compensation will not be a large sum anyway!! It would be nice to see Koreans and Japanese reach a broader sense of mutual compromise..

they are still complaining about it its happen 70 years ago move on

It's all about money,nothing else.Only naives think otherwise.Koreans believe they have chance to make some money from this issue, though they know so well 1965 agreement they signed with japan deny them the right to do so.If japan gives in,given the huge number of atrocities commited by japan in many other countries in the not so long past, the flood gate will open so wide like giant tsunami.Japnese don't have the luxury to pay for that, they are alot less rich than most people think.The party is over for them long time ago.What japanese did during and before ww2 is unforgiveable ,having said that , the south koreans commited their share of crimes in vietnam and other places, I wonder if they are willing to compensate their victims as well.At the end, the truth is no one better than anybody else.The history of almost any nation on earth is so damn ugly,reflecting the true nature of people everywhere on this planet. Moderator, don't remove my post this time please( I spent lots of emotional energu on it):)

I think the crimes that were committed were horrendous and the women deserve to be compensated, as it was them who had their bodies defiled. That being said, NOTHING is going to be done by the Japanese to make a heartfelt apology, compensate the women or even admit their responsibility. If the Japanese government won't even compensate & move all of its citizens who live in areas contaminated by the nuclear meltdown, provide accurate testing and documentation of the children living in the effective areas or even quit trying to peddle contaminated food to its citizens, then there's fat chance they're going to do the proper thing for the victims of these SEX CRIMES.

Great post, Patrick. Once again Korea is continuing to play victim. Nothing new here.

Yes some of you guys keep blaming Korea.So it's OK for Japan to get away with heinous crimes committed by Japanese soldiers to comfort women and Korea is the bad guy for being a victim.Next time maybe Korea should invade Japan and inflict major damage on Japan the way they treated Koreans and see for yourself how painful it is to live under a powerful countries controlling weaker nations like Korea.Good Job Japan has special rights to rule over Korea.Wake up you guys do you have any moral conscience.You guys seemed to think it's ok to bully Korea.Yes job well done.Just being sarcastic!

The rather absurd aspect of this claim is that South Korea is demanding compensation from Japan when Japan already did so to a previous South Korean administration in 1965. While the administrations have changed over time it is still the same South Korean government, In contrast the Japanese government up to 1945 was destroyed, many members tried and convincted to death. So today's Japanese government isn't the same government at all. That South Korea ignores it's failure to properly compenate the comfort women and makes such a demand really reduces it's credibility and standing as a nation.

The so called "comfort women" issue does not exist between Japan and S Korea.

There are many details to this issue that make it very complicated. But what it boils down to is that both the South Korean and Japanese governments are evil bandits working in concert to ensure the former sex slaves never see a dime.

Anyone pointing to some detail about either government to absolve or condemn that government at the expense of the other is overlooking something, and probably intentionally.

The 1965 agreement does not include compensation for victims of sexual slavery. So Japan never paid and the South Korean government never asked. Yet, it would seem the agreement prevents the women from ever getting paid, which is ridiculous. Japan still owes them because it never paid money for the sex slaves, and because all those court cases and Japan made all those excuses, but never told them the real reason for denying them, which was the secret 1965 agreement. South Korea still owes them money for also keeping that agreement secret for several decades, and for making the agreement that basically ensures they simply would not be compensated.

Of course some unscrupulous people will waffle between saying that Japan already paid and saying that South Korea never asked for compensation specifically for the sex slaves, but surely you can see what a dishonest scam that is? It just puts these wronged women between a rock and a hard place. Both governments should be made to pay the women back wages and compensation too, even if it means they get double.

Japan has apologized for the military’s crimes against the women but rejected rejected South Korea’s proposal of bilateral talks about the women’s demands.

Double rejection is what the Japanese should do as in the sentence from the article.

Both sides are to blame for current impasse.Japanese are too adamant and Koreans are too emotional.Hey guys cool it man!! It's not the end of the world yet!

We Japanese are being bullied again by korean. It makes me so angry.If DPJ have any guts (I dont think so) they stand up to fight against this korea (and China) bully. LDP will be much stronger on the issue.

Thing is OssanAmerica nothing will ever satisfy the Koreans.And I don't understand Korean mentality either since I spent most of my childhood outside of Korea which doesn't mean I dislike Korea.Koreans whether compensated or not they will always seek to stir up anger among Japanese some of whom may not like Korea at all.

Mr Lee should seeking Japan's apology and compensation of Japanese swordsmen slashing the Korean late queen 'Lees' in imperial palace back in 1910, it was the Japanese government advocating the plot and that was a more 'explosive' issue!

Come on,Noda,pay this compensation and will be the end of its mandate.