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S Korea urges Japan to face history; China summons Japan envoy

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Oh for goodness sake, get over it. This finished 68 years ago. And why can't the Japanese pay homage to their own shrine to their dead in Japan?

23 ( +43 / -20 )

If I remember well South Korea is a country which still haven't matched much part of it's history under Japanese occupation...

6 ( +18 / -12 )

This is terrible that Japan's neighbors won't let this go-68yrs for crying out loud- Asians materialistic weird people though so I understand---

5 ( +20 / -15 )

South Korea, why don't you face your own history before critisizing Japan? Don't you know you were accomplice to Japan during WWII, and conducted many war crimes? You cannot switch the side easily and pretend that you were victims!

15 ( +34 / -19 )

China and Korea are known as countries which like histories. Let the bygone be bygone is the Japanese people.

0 ( +9 / -10 )

And let's not forget that the father of this lady was an official of the Japanese Imperial Army. To me it looks like this lady is desperately trying to get rid of the the image of her country as an accomplice of Japan by playing the victim card since her father volunteered for the Japanese military like many other Korean men during WWII.

25 ( +38 / -13 )

Why face their history?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

President Park may discover that in an unequal and fractious country, anti-Japanese nationalism remains the best way to orchestrate national unity. South Korea seems to be following the pattern of China. It's in Korea's best interest from a security and economic standpoint to do whatever needs to be done to repair its relationship with Japan. Since Japan is one of the largest trading partner, so it makes only logical sense to work together for growth of both economies.

18 ( +23 / -5 )

What do these two nations have in common? Sole government issued history textbooks which dedicates chapters and chapters on what Japan did to them. In other words, their so-called historians job is to find, distort, and manipulate source materials to support the government's agenda.

0 ( +17 / -16 )

"The shrine in the heart of Tokyo honors people who died during World War II—including several war criminals".

"The shrine lists the names, origin, birthdate and place of death of 2,466,532 men, women and children and spans from the Boshin War of 1867 to World War II." - wiki

If the media cant get the facts right.. then obviously everything a politician, bureacrat or any statement made by anyone can be misconstrued.. especially by the media.

14 ( +18 / -4 )

Interesting NHK Overseas news

Japan protests Israeli official's comments Japan has protested to Israel over comments by a senior Israeli official about memorials for the victims of the 1945 US atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Daniel Seaman is the outgoing director-general of the Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs Ministry. He posted the comments on his Facebook page on Thursday last week, 2 days after Hiroshima marked the 68th anniversary of the bombing of the city. In his comments, Seaman said he is "sick of the Japanese, 'human rights' and 'peace' groups the world over holding their annual self-righteous commemorations for the atomic bomb victims." He also said the bombings of "Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the consequence of Japanese aggression." He suggests that "they should be commemorating victims of what he called 'Japanese imperial aggression and genocide,' listing Chinese, Koreans and other Asians. The comments have already been removed. The Japanese Embassy in Israel lodged a protest with the Israeli Foreign Ministry and sought clarification. The Israeli Prime Minister's Office told NHK that the comment did not represent the government's position. Seaman was due to become the head of the National Information Directorate's interactive media unit. But he has been told to cease his public duties. While in charge of foreign media in the past, Seaman effectively deported a journalist for being critical of Israel. Aug. 15, 2013 - Updated 13:20 UTC

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Most Koreans believe the Independence Gate commemorates independence from the annexation by Japan when it really was for independence from being a vassal state of China as a result of the first Sino-Japanese war. The Treaty of Shimonoseki allowed the autonomy and independence of Korea.

But after WWII, the peninsula was split into two by the Americans and the Russians.

Korea was given independence, but not in whole. Are the Koreans happy for this split? There still is no peace treaty between North and South.

But all hate is centered towards Japan.

Isn't Korea forgetting that they signed the Treaty of Normalization in 1965?

22 ( +25 / -3 )

Lol. Daniel Seaman is too dumb to realize that those citizens who commemorate the bombing of the cities by going to the memorial are the MOST VOCAL group to voice their anger towards the current Japanese government's handling og the past atrocities towards the neighbors. You could make a separate memorial and a different date to commemorate them but it will be the same group of people that will be attending it.

-2 ( +8 / -11 )

Currently, N and S unification movement is strong. Maybe the unified Korea will work with China to attack Japan?

-15 ( +4 / -19 )

Owariganai!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Currently, N and S unification movement is strong. Maybe the unified Korea will work with China to attack Japan?

If South Koreans have so much bad blood for Japanese just imagine how much of it there's against NK. It's impossible right now or in your lifetime.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

I thought all issues have been settled by the 1965 Japan-South Korea Treaty and the Asian Women's Fund. What else do they want?

10 ( +17 / -7 )

Most Koreans believe the Independence Gate commemorates independence from the annexation by Japan when it really was for independence from being a vassal state of China as a result of the first Sino-Japanese war. The Treaty of Shimonoseki allowed the autonomy and independence of Korea.

Which, of course, isn't taught. The kicker here is that Koreans were taught that they were autonomous all along so of course, no mention of Treaty of Shimonoseki. Of course, no mention of the fact that prior to the independence gate, the site had a welcoming gate where they welcomed the imperial envoy from China.

3 ( +12 / -8 )

As usual the politicians in China and Korea are milking this for all it's worth hoping to divert attention from domestic issues. Enough is enough, let's move on people! The war has been over for nearly 70 years!

6 ( +11 / -5 )

The feeling of getting punched and inability to hit back has china and korea crying for 70 years

10 ( +16 / -5 )

What do these two nations have in common? Sole government issued history textbooks which dedicates chapters and chapters on what Japan did to them. In other words, their so-called historians job is to find, distort, and manipulate source materials to support the government's agenda.

As opposed to the history textbooks in Japan which dedicate pretty much no space to what Japan really did in Asia during WW2, you mean ? No, of course in Japan there is no manipulation or denials of source materials to support government's agenda , is there?

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

In the past I'd admonish Japan for this, but given the year-round pettiness of Korea and China I'll put my energy elsewhere.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

How dare these Japanese politicians go visit a shrine in their own country. Perhaps Japan should kill South Koreans like the North Koreans do and they would be hated less.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Abe never learned his bad mistakes. we korean dont like him.

-18 ( +5 / -23 )

I would be interested to know if Korean schools teach their kids about the Jeju uprising and how their dear government dealt with that?

13 ( +14 / -1 )

You cannot switch the side easily and pretend that you were victims!*

Of course not, only the J-politicians and right wingers are allowed to do that.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Just ignore them. The mask of the Koreans is falling.

1 ( +8 / -6 )

@marcelito

Please explain further. What is your exact knowledge regarding the content of history textbooks and how they are taught at Japanese schools reagrding WWII? And what were you personally taught in your own schooling about WWII?

I know nothing about how Germans teach WWII to their school children, so I looked around on the Net. It's from 2004, but an interesting read.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread49832/pg1

6 ( +9 / -3 )

It's the same type of speech that Korean presidents make on August 15, independence day from Japan, for South Korea (the same day the leaders of Japan attend Yasukuni to pray to their primitive gods and pray to their war crime ancestors). I don't quite understand the Japanese Imperial miiitarist anger over something that's been said every year.

shrug.

-17 ( +6 / -22 )

What is it with Asia? Look at Europe and the second world war....Are the Europeans constantly bitching at each other for war apologies, recognition and compensation. Come on Asia grow up and move on.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

“It is hard to build trust without the willingness to face history and consider the wounds inflicted upon others,” Park said, urging Tokyo officials to show “courageous leadership.”

And if I were Abe, I would tell her, sure I will do that as soon as you acknowledge the bad treatment you still are showing the children of mixed race Koreans that goes on in Korea. They just recently startled letting mixed raced Koreans in the military, so they still have a long way to go.

China is not in the clear also, they need to come clean on what Mao did to his own people as well as others.

Sure Japan ran rough over Asia during WWII, but they lost. Korea got it's freedeom (at least SK), and China became free from total foregin control and became communist. I say these countries need to "get over it" and understand that it was a different world at that time, and they should do as much as possible to make sure that we don't go back down that path again.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

S Korea does this every day

16 ( +18 / -2 )

Predictable cries of "get over it, it's been x years" in response to predictable statements by Korea/China for Japan to acknowledge their past is so predictable.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

Korea is history's eternal victim and wants to make sure the rest of the world never forgets it.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Onsen - I saw one of the Japanese textbooks that is being used in public schools first hand some months ago. There was a total of one and a half page devoted to the WW2 period. Half of that was covered by photographs showing the Hiroshima A - bomb dome and JIA troops marching somewhere in China. Most of the text covered the A - bombings , the only reference to JIA in Asia was a sentence which mentioned that Imperial troops conducted a " campaign" in parts of Asia. What was I personally taught about WW2 when I was at school? Being of European background , a considerable amount more and in much greater detail than what Japanese kids are being taught nowadays. Damn shame because they deserve to be taught much more.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Most of the text covered the A - bombings , the only reference to JIA in Asia was a sentence which mentioned that Imperial troops conducted a " campaign" in parts of Asia. What was I personally taught about WW2 when I was at school? Being of European background , a considerable amount more and in much greater detail than what Japanese kids are being taught nowadays.

When history is not taught, you can't expect them to develop an understanding of modern Asian politics, other than the view that China and Korea are leveraging the 'victim image' for political gain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068

0 ( +11 / -11 )

Abe never learned his bad mistakes. we korean dont like him.

I don't think you are required to like him. He is the leader of a neighboring country, though, so it is advantageous to deal with him.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Mitch Cohen - thanks for the link. interesting article.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

i love how south korea always has the morally high ground no matter what, they might possibly be the most perfect race on the planet if you minus the plastic surgery obsession and all, but, really, really getting tired of this, i like korea and all but, some maturity would be welcomed, otherwise this will keep going on for decades maybe longer creating more hate and intolerance for future generations :(

3 ( +9 / -6 )

What is it with Asia? Look at Europe and the second world war....Are the Europeans constantly bitching at each other for war apologies, recognition and compensation. Come on Asia grow up and move on.

Germany apologized for its crimes and never tried to deny them. The problem is that the LDP does not admit that Nanjing happened or they think that the Korean occupation was good for Korea. Every month someone is quoted in the LDP saying this stuff. German politicians never say anything like that about the Jews or others. That is the difference. Europe has moved on because Germany faced the truth. Japan has not and continues to deny its history.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Newsservice. 15/08/2045. Even after war controversial war criminals were removed from Yasukuni shrine prior to the 100th anniversary of the end of WWII, Japan's neighbors have complained to Tokyo about paying respects at a shrine that used to house war criminals; say that it hurts Japan's neighbors, and the feelings of history.

As long as China and Korea can gain anything from victimization, they'll never stop. No matter how much time has passed or whatever gestures are made.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

As long as China and Korea can gain anything from victimization, they'll never stop.

What do they stand to gain? Any more or less than Japan stands to gain by fanning the flames of nationalism and viewing their past in a more positive light?

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

@Marcelito Did they remember to put a one-liner for Nanking?

Well, it is 8 years of 2000, not very pleasant and controversial. 1.5 pages seem about right. At least they aren't glorifying it either.

@Mitch You can know about history and still easily conclude this is manipulation for advantage.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Can we leave the 20th century yet? Yes, bad things happened. Even my country is guilty of that. Get over it. The rest of the world did.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

This stuck record keeps going round n round doesnt it, Japan has appologised many times by many former PMs, even if the appologies wernt exactly whay you wanted atleast they have been done.

Get over it SK and China the war was along time ago, time to let go and move forward or do you forever want to be stuck in this self pity mind set.

SK really does harp on typical of them though if you have ever had much to do with them you'll understand they do have issues as a people.

10 ( +14 / -3 )

Interesting article Mitch. Even more so by the fact that it was written by a Japanese national.

@Kazuaki you could conclude that.... especially with a limited grasp on the historical significance. You could also conclude that the constant gaffs by the leaders of the country are particularly galling for those that had to experience 'history'.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

As opposed to the history textbooks in Japan which dedicate pretty much no space to what Japan really did in Asia during WW2, you mean ? No, of course in Japan there is no manipulation or denials of source materials to support government's agenda , is there?

Marcelito,

There are 9 of them. Do enlighten me on which one of the 9 you are referring to.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

Yes, Japan occupation of these their Asian and South Asian counterparts was illegal, and Japan was defeated. Japan has a responsibility for compensation, yes. However we would not be arguing this had they fought off Japan would we? This is about betrayal, bitterness, and remorse of one OWN defeat. Now Japan is a passivist nation struggling in a war lustful world and about to get in the game again, but only for self-defense, unlike every other nation around it. Accept it, own it, learn from it, and move on. Peace on the seven seas.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

This stuck record keeps going round n round doesnt it, Japan has appologised many times by many former PMs, even if the appologies wernt exactly whay you wanted atleast they have been done.

Why ignore the constant denials all all levels of government right up to the PM himself?

-10 ( +6 / -16 )

@marcelito

Assuming you can read Japanese, you should take a look at a pro-nationalist who makes comments on the various history textbooks of Japan. There is no one single government controlled history book being taught in Japan.

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/jjtaro_maru/20110709/1310169174

History is a human account of things that have happened. This is unavoidable. There will always be points of contention. But the issue is that schools are given freedom to choose different history text books in Japan and their contents are not all the same. Would you not agree that having a variety is more freedom than a single government approved history text books? History is not a science. History should not be propaganda.

Why can't Korea at least agree to disagree. Wht do they have to keep pushing Japan to accept their own views?No state leader should force their own particular views of history on another foreign country. Especially if they want to have mutually beneficial co-operation.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Let's be real... no matter how many years may have passed or how many times (insincere) apologies may have been made in the past, Japan is still continuing to remind their neighbors of the horrific abuses by intentionally paying respects to the war criminals at yasukuni shrine. So who is the one that's clinging on to the past and keep jabbing the hornets nest here? South Korea and China reached out countless times to stop Japan from digging up the past but it was stubbornly resisted by claiming their sovereign rights to pay tribute to the dead soldiers even if they are convicted hoodlums. What can be the reason for the Country with kind and caring people to keep aggravating those who have suffered so much. Japanese Politicians need to grow up and become a responsible members of the International community. It's just like what the Korean President said "it s hard to build trust without the willingness to face history and consider the wounds inflicted upon others'. Empathy and Sincerity is the key to healing process but Japan lost these important qualities in the midst of frantically reforming the Pacifist Policies which provided them with peace and harmony for the past 68 years.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

China and Korea should not meddle in the internal affairs of Japan.

5 ( +14 / -8 )

Japan should cut ALL relations with those two countries. Totally unwanted. Japan has better partners than those two.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Abe will again regret for not visiting Yasukuni Shrine.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Japan should cut ALL relations with those two countries. Totally unwanted. Japan has better partners than those two.

Genius.

Stop trading with your 1st (China) and 3rd (Korea) largest trading partners, which account for more trade than with the 2nd (USA) and 4th-6th trading partners combined.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

suicide is stupid. All the nations in the world are trying to expand their friends and markets but except Japan.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

This will surely never end. Even if Japan makes a full formal apology and then proceeds to pay whatever compensation these morons demand, people cannot be prevented from visiting the Yasukuni Shrine to pay their respects, so these 2 countries will keep on complaining whenever anyone visits it.

-2 ( +6 / -7 )

@Mitch

2012 Ministry of Finance data

Imports China 21.2% USA 8.6% Australia 6.3% Saudi Arabia 6.1% UAE 4.9% Korea 4.5% Malaysia 3.6% Gemany 2.7% Thailand 2.6%

Exports China 18.0% USA 17.5% Korea 7.7% Taiwan 5.7% Thailand 5.4% HongKong 5.1% Singapore 2.9% Germany 2.6% Indonesia 2.5% Australia 2.3%

If trade and economical concerns reflect a country's health, then surely these should take precedence over political rantings, no? Creating and maintaining hate against particular foreign countries certainly would not generate more trade. Or is it that by playing the victim's card this will generate financial concessions? Japan did not renew nor extend the currency swap agreement with Korea. Korea is refusing to have high level meetings with Japan. Do you think Japan will bend to accomodate Park Geun-Hye's emotional requests? Time will tell, I suppose.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Back on topic please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Many comments about the victimisation image that is created by China dn South Korea, do these people feel the same about the Jewish rememberance of WWII. Or the fact that the American's remember the Pearl Harbour bombing each year with their aging veterans? The pain that was inflicted y Japan's imperial army to China and Sout Korea was insurmountable.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

This will surely never end. Even if Japan makes a full formal apology and then proceeds to pay whatever compensation these morons demand, people cannot be prevented from visiting the Yasukuni Shrine to pay their respects, so these 2 countries will keep on complaining whenever anyone visits it.

There was no demand for compensation, just acknowledgement rather than a revision of their past.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

@Nigelboy

*Marcelito,There are 9 of them. Do enlighten me on which one of the 9 you are referring to.

Sure, next time I meet the student who showed me the textbook I described above i,ll make sure to get the exact title of the ..just for you. Unless of course you are familiar with all 9 of them and can deduce which one it was with your superior intellect.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Japan should invade them again just to show that history has not been forgotten. Plus we could get up to date TV and keitai technology.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

There was no demand for compensation, just acknowledgement rather than a revision of their past.

@Mitch Cohen : Once there's formal acknowledgment, there's always compensation. Same thing happened with the Aborigines in Australia in 2008; Kevin Rudd formally apologized for past wrongdoings, a month later about 100 suits had been filed demanding compensation.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

“It is hard to build trust without the willingness to face history and consider the wounds inflicted upon others,” Park said, urging Tokyo officials to show “courageous leadership.”

Yes please Ms Park ... some courageous leadership on the part of ROK politicians would be most welcome.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

It's all politics. When Park Geun-Hye was running for party candidacy she met fierce resistance within the party from the then president Lee Myung-bak and his corporate Samsung. This rivary continue after she gained candidacy where Samasung turned sides and started supporting Moon Jae-in. I hear Park Geun-Hye abd Samsung still has a bad blood between them and Samsung fears of being deprived of various preferential treatment gained during Lee Myung-bak's reign. Park Geun-Hye on the other hand has not secured the support of the business sector so she needs any and all support from her constituents and the most easiest way for this is to invoke patriotism bashing Japan as her whipping boy.

Basically there is no constructive element in any of this exercise.

3 ( +8 / -4 )

As a famous move once said "The individual is smart, people are stupid." It's a domestic issue, if family members want to honor their dead on that day let them.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So would you deny the stolen generations of compensation? It was basically a government sponsored abduction of children in the name of raising them as good Christian children.

I won't be voting Labor in September but I do applaud Mr Rudd's full acknowledgement and apology in 2007. This kind of apology without later denial is what is lacking from Japan.

@ Mitch Cohen : I didn't say I'd deny them compensation, but it's not my decision or one to be taken lightly seeing as it's the taxpayer who's going to have to cough up and it's hardly the taxpayer's fault is it?

Japan's case is vastly more complex than the Lost Generation case, there could possibly be hundreds of thousands of people who come forward demanding compensation, and how could you separate valid claims to fraudulent ones? How do you price the damage done? How is it today's Japanese citizens' responsibility to compensate alleged victims from something that happened 70 years ago? It would be a legal nightmare. Think if every victim of the Holocaust came forward demanding compensation.

Obviously a formal acknowledgement and apology would be best, but politics obviously isn't that simple is it?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Many South Koreans believe Japan has failed to atone for abuses during the colonial period."

That should read "Many South Koreans will never accept that Japan has atoned for abuses during the colonial period no matter what Japan does because it is Korean culture that never lets someone forget."

In 20 years this will still be playing out. Add another 50 years and it will still be the topic if NK hasn't nuked South Korea.

-3 ( +7 / -9 )

I always find it interesting to read the comments of these ww2 stories when Korea and China complain about Japan wartime aggression Japanese people say to let it go and forget it but when the atomic bombings come up everyone gets into a uproar saying it was unessscary and a terrorist act Ect. It seems ww2 will be remembered for years to come. Maybe one day everyone will move on.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Mitch Cohen

Why ignore the constant denials all all levels of government right up to the PM himself?

There was no demand for compensation, just acknowledgement rather than a revision of their past.

There are questions.

Korea and China keep saying Japan has not apologized or compensated any for what did in WWII.

On the other hand, they criticize that Japan is trying to review Murayama Danwa and Kohno Danwa.

Is this mean they are not regarding these two Danwas as aplogies? But still they are against even reviewing of them by Japanese government? What a contradiction!

Also, are they saying that they could achieve their development today only by themselves? Where or from who did they obtain the fund for such development? Korea and China received huge amount of money and technical assitance from Japan. Also, Japan handed over the infrastructures they had built in both countries, "for free".

(The Netherlands invoiced Indonesia a huge amount of money for the infrastructures they left. And Indonesia paid this amount using the reparation money from Japan)

@Mitch Cohen

Are you saying that denials at later date cancel everything including Japanese aplogies and compencation made before? Just like resetting the game? It's ridiculous.

Just think about why other Asian nations including Indonesia are not criticizing Japan like Korea and China do.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

MAR 2, 2013 ARTICLE HISTORY

In 20 years this will still be playing out. Add another 50 years and it will still be the topic if NK hasn't nuked South Korea.

Unlikely. Park stating the following:-

SEOUL – South Korean President Park Geun Hye on Friday urged Japan to squarely face up to past historical issues, alluding to its brutal colonial rule of the Korean Peninsula. “We can open up a future of common prosperity with Japan only when Japan honestly reflects on its past,” Park said in a speech marking the 94th anniversary of an independence movement against Japan’s 1910-1945 rule of the peninsula. “The dynamic of (Japan) being the aggressor and (Korea) being the victim will never change, even after the passage of a thousand years,” Park, who was sworn into office Monday as the country’s first female president, told a ceremony in Cheonan, South Chungcheong Province. Park stressed that “Japan should have a correct view of history and assume a responsible attitude to open up the era of Northeast Asia in the 21st century as a partner (of South Korea).”

It seems that Korea is intent on keeping their victim card until 3013.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

@Karjai Abe is disliked in China and Korea and regarded as another temporary nobody by most other countries, most of whom couldn't name him. It would be better for all if they saw Abe in the same way as the majority of people in the world. There will probably be another empty shirt in power by the next August silly season ( Abe is already on the slide in the opinion polls ). The majority of Japanese people are decent and the likes of Abe, Ishihara and Hashimoto should not be regarded as representative ( the majority of Japanese either couldn't be bothered to vote or didn't vote for the LDP or the comedy duo ). Yasukuni is exploited by the likes of Abe for political gain, hence his calculations regarding the visit. He shouldn't be taken too seriously.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What's most incredible is the number of posts in which the names "Japan" and "Korea" could so easily be swapped and the same things would apply. There are way too many nationalists on both sides. Their opinions are largely based on their nationalities, and their nations ignorance of other nations, same as with all extremists.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

South Korea should have compensated these alleged victims out of the vast reparations that Japan paid to them, it's hardly today's Japanese taxpayers' faults if SK was too busy spending them on dictatorships and wars rather than "face history".

0 ( +6 / -5 )

Today's Wall Street Journal reported that 175,000 visited Yasukuni yesterday on the history of Japan's WWII surrender, significantly more than the 161,000 last year.

This certainly seems to indicate a growing shift in the attitudes of many Japanese citizens toward their nation's actions during the war. (Link to WSJ article: http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2013/08/15/huge-crowds-pour-into-yasukuni-shrine-on-war-anniversary/)

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Hello......better focus first on how to make better ties with your nearest neighbor... North Korea improve then convince them to make better ties with the World.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@sensato 14,000 up in a country of 126,000,0000 hardly represents a worrying lurch to the right ( and I'm suspicious of anything that comes out of Yasukuni ). The majority of Japanese who voted LDP ( nowhere near a majority of eligible voters ) did so for economic reasons, not for issues such as constitutional change, and the nutty right in the form of Ishihara/Hashimoto were spanked. I'm concerned that this issue gets overblown every year, as the thought of visiting Yasukuni wouldn't cross the mind of the vast majority of Japanese people. Unfortunately, this isn't what the media, particularly in China and Korea, want to point out.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

She uses too many anti-Japan cards even though it's the first year yet.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

That should read "Many South Koreans will never accept that Japan has atoned for abuses during the colonial period no matter what Japan does because it is Korean culture that never lets someone forget."

In 20 years this will still be playing out. Add another 50 years and it will still be the topic if NK hasn't nuked South Korea.

Exactly. South Korea being nuked and millions of South Koreans dying instantly might just be the only thing to distract them that they have a bigger problem with their neighbors up north.

This culture of theirs that makes dwell on the past and instead of moving on, keep on reliving and whining about it. Man, it must SUCK to have been born Korean.

-8 ( +4 / -11 )

Godzillajapan: I always find it interesting to read the comments of these ww2 stories when Korea and China complain about Japan wartime aggression Japanese people say to let it go and forget it but when the atomic bombings come up everyone gets into a uproar saying it was unessscary and a terrorist act Ect. It seems ww2 will be remembered for years to come. Maybe one day everyone will move on.

The difference though is that Japan does not ask for apologies every year several times a year. As for the governments of S Korea and China, they never fail to cry out despite the agreements signed with the Japanese government, the apologies made by J PMs and the financial aid of billions of dollars provided by Japan thanks to the hard work of the Japanese tax payers. There is always something which is not up to C and K's high standards. Though the victims of the A-bombings are commemorated every year, Japan has moved on. Something which cannot be said about Korea and China.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

When they look at what Japan has been doing for ROK, then they may be able to know that they disclosed about Japan-South Korea basic treaty to their people who did not know that both of countries finished to fight over claims, disputes, and conflicts which happened in Japanese occupation period and world war 2. Japan tried to accept painful compensation and release some governmental official apology and prime ministerial apology to ROK some times before. What ROK has to face is that what they have been doing in their domestic.

-1 ( +3 / -3 )

The visits "fundamentally attempt to deny and gloss over Japan's history of invasion", the statement said.

Its a visit, not a speech or document. Did someone screw up with the copy and paste here?

"I expect responsible and sincere steps to be taken to heal the wounds of those who are still suffering," she said.

The people still suffering are all very old by now and have no direct say in relations. Its the brainwashed younger generations that need to be healed.

-3 ( +2 / -4 )

It is always good to be reminded of the good and especially of the bad. This is one method that people do to prevent bad things from happening again. We always advise or warn our loved ones(people you care about) the danger ahead, don't we?

It is not too long ago when it happened, the victim could be your grandparent. I suppose, everyone commenting in this section is a very caring and concerned bunch and would definitely make sure in your capacity and power that bad history shall not repeat itself

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@don-in-japan

Interesting article Mitch. Even more so by the fact that it was written by a Japanese national. @Kazuaki you could conclude that.... especially with a limited grasp on the historical significance. You could also conclude that the constant gaffs by the leaders of the country are particularly galling for those that had to experience 'history'.

If you are interested in history bextbooks of the relevant nations, I recommend a report by the Stanford University on the high school textbooks of US, China, Korea, Taiwan and Japan, in which Japanese textbooks are evaluated as most calm and fair, offering no strong narrative about the war.

It says, "In contrast to the United States and China, Japan is a country where nationalism (pride in national culture and accomplishments) may be very strong, but patriotism (willingness to die for the nation) is very weak."

http://aparc.stanford.edu/research/divided_memories_and_reconciliation

2 ( +7 / -4 )

“I expect responsible and sincere steps to be taken to heal the wounds of those who are still suffering,” she said.

Has she meant that Japan should accept all the claims of Korea without any refutation and pay another compensation to Korea?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Can politicians not go to Yasukuni simply to pay homage to the two million others there, or is that such a weird concept?

2 ( +5 / -2 )

Can politicians not go to Yasukuni simply to pay homage to the two million others there, or is that such a weird concept?

They don't simply go there for that reason.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

As long as people try to defend the honour of their ancestors, like Japanese nationalists, there will always be the risk of war,because others will do the same for their ancestors. It is not only the Japanese or only the Chinese....Yet if those in Japan to whom peace means more than anything else would rise up, there would be a real chance for peace! These Japanese could become a role model for others. What Abe and his like are doing is playing with fire. And usually the plain people have to suffer for his big words.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Can politicians not go to Yasukuni simply to pay homage to the two million others there, or is that such a weird concept?

That is what we call selective perception.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

People on this board can cry out for Korea to "get over it" all they want. Ongoing protests in the Asian region for Japan to take it's history more serious and more openly and directly atone for it's past actions can not be ignored. Whether you like it or not there is real feeling in these people about the issue. Doing nothing only makes it worse.

For god sakes Japan wake up and take responsibility and stop saying "we already said sorry?" because your Asian neighbours are clearly not convinced. Its not about how YOU feel about the apologies its about how they feel!!

-6 ( +4 / -11 )

Sensato

Today's Wall Street Journal reported that 175,000 visited Yasukuni yesterday on the history of Japan's WWII surrender, significantly more than the 161,000 last year.

More baby boomers retiring with time on their hands

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Ongoing protests in the Asian region for Japan to take it's history more serious and more openly and directly atone for it's past actions can not be ignored.

Why don't you simply write "China and Korea" instead of using vague expression like "the Asian region"?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Have the Koreans forgotten about the Japanese Emperor apologising to Roh Tae Woo in 1990 and that Roh stated that Korea accepts the apologies?

The New York Times JAPANESE EXPRESS REMORSE TO KOREA By STEVEN R. WEISMAN, Special to The New York Times Published: May 25, 1990

Emperor Akihito apologized tonight for Japan's brutal subjugation of Korea nearly a half century ago. It was the first time that unambiguous acceptance of responsibility for Japanese wartime aggression had ever been expressed at such a high level.

''I think of the sufferings your people underwent during this unfortunate period, which was brought about by my country, and cannot but feel the deepest regret,'' the 56-year-old Emperor told the visiting South Korean President, Roh Tae Woo, at a state banquet. His remarks were directed pointedly to the people of the Korean peninsula, which is now divided into North and South Korea.

The phrasing was a departure from the more circumscribed locutions used by the Emperor's father, Hirohito, who in remarks addressed to the United States and China referred to the war years as a ''regrettable'' or ''unfortunate'' period but stopped short of acknowledging any specific Japanese responsibility. Akihito succeeded Hirohito upon his death early last year.

South Korean Leader Accepts Japanese Emperor's Apology AP Published: May 27, 1990

President Roh Tae Woo said today that Japan's expressions of regret for its brutal colonization of Korea were the basis for a new relationship.

Mr. Roh returned today from a three-day trip to Japan, during which Emperor Akihito expressed regret for the occupation of Korea from 1910 to 1945. Prime Minister Toshiki Kaifu of Japan extended ''honest apologies.''

Mr. Roh said, ''Even if we may feel that the Japanese apologies do not fully live up to our expectations, we should accept them with magnanimity and generosity, now that Japan has forthrightly admitted its mistakes.''

3 ( +7 / -4 )

@letsberealistic : You're not being realistic. Politics isn't driven by emotions. And yeah you should probably have a look at a map to see where the "Asian region" is.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Its likely that Park cant act in any other way, given her position. But the issue at hand is that some people in China and SK seem to have a need to demonize a Japanese religion, thousands of years old (which means honoring the ancestors) and a certain shrine in Tokyo. I have never heard that anyone goes to the shrine to honor the war criminals, well a few extreme right wingers of course, but they are hardly worth considering anyway. So why this need to slam all the rest of relatives to the war-dead? Is it the museum that is located in the same area? Many countries, if not all, have war museums. Check out GB with a lot of them. Some of you seem to think that Japanese people dont know what happened during the second world war. On the contrary, they seem to know it well, but many dont like to speak of it, since they are always at risk to be accused of being stupid in the sense that they do not know the right version, or to have participated (almost), or being a covert imperialist soldier waiting to take over the rest of the world. Id like to ask you people to free yourself from the most extreme myths and discourses and try to see people as they are today. Democracy rules in Japan and with democracy comes a diversity of opinions and people. Thus some people will be revisionist and some people will be opposed, just the way it should be. But then again, maybe all the suits in Tokyo are secretly dreaming of becoming imperialist soldiers... lol.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

TigersTokyoDome: This is tantamount to saying that the Jewish people should forget about the holocaust because it happened 68 years ago. The Jewish people don't and should not forget, and so are the Germans. Only the Japanese have forgotten, and urge the victims to forget

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Is Park hoping to get support from her nation with her confrontational rhetoric? The ignorant may be willing to give it to her, without them knowing the purpose. Fortunately there are educated people, also young educated people, who loathe seeing politicians like Park stirring unrest over issues that are supposed to have been settled.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

They are talking about history, not the elementary school text book The oldest discovered book Kojiki time to Nihonshoki to all 2700 years history.

Marcelloo: Which textbook are you referring? Elementary? JR HS? SR HS? Japanese textbooks are not written in English.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Sure, next time I meet the student who showed me the textbook I described above i,ll make sure to get the exact title of the ..just for you. Unless of course you are familiar with all 9 of them and can deduce which one it was with your superior intellect.

No Marcelito. I'm calling your bluff.

There was a total of one and a half page devoted to the WW2 period. Half of that was covered by photographs showing the Hiroshima A - bomb dome and JIA troops marching somewhere in China.

This statement was a dead giveaway. At least you could of constructed your stories better.

-5 ( +6 / -10 )

<>

Thank you, Mitch

It all makes sense now after reading the article

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

For those still in denial about how insensitive it is for government officials to visit Yasukuni Shrine, here's a segment from their website:

Moreover, there were those who gave up their lives after the end of the Great East Asian War, taking upon themselves the responsibility for the war. There were also 1,068 "Martyrs of Showa" who were cruelly and unjustly tried as war criminals by a sham-like tribunal of the Allied forces (United States, England, the Netherlands, China and others). These martyrs are also the Kami of Yasukuni Jinja.... The peace and prosperity of Japan today is the fruit of the noble work of the Kami of Yasukuni Jinja.

Taken from: http://www.warbirdforum.com/yasukuni.htm

-1 ( +3 / -5 )

The point I was trying to make was that the shrine is NOT just for war criminals... there are more than 2 million others names there... or are they all evil? How do people know that politicians are honouring the war criminals? Can people read their minds?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

IRobinAug. 16, 2013 - 10:45AM JST suicide is stupid. All the nations in the world are trying to expand their friends and markets but except Japan.

A 2012 BBC poll showed that only CHINA and SOUTH KOREA had more negative than positive views of Japan's influence in the world.

http://www.japanprobe.com/2012/05/16/bbc-global-poll-japan-has-most-positive-influence-in-the-world/

-4 ( +5 / -8 )

“It is hard to build trust without the willingness to face history and consider the wounds inflicted upon others,” Park said, urging Tokyo officials to show “courageous leadership.”

“I expect responsible and sincere steps to be taken to heal the wounds of those who are still suffering,” she said.

They trot this out every year, and yet they never - never - acknowledge the 1965 money and the apology that was accepted by their country as settlement in full for the wounds inflicted on Koreans.

1 ( +5 / -3 )

Japan, you can't just ignore and turn the other way to the voice of the Asian people (China, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong Philippines = Asian region). Many leaders in history have done this to their peril. Take action now Japan before it gets worse - it sure aint going to disappear until you do SOMETHING (whether you apologised in the past or not).

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

This debate will not die down for many more years. Japan will never deliver what its neighbours want in terms of a sincere apology. Sure, some triumphs in improving relations will be achieved here and there, but ultimately only after many more decades pass will this die down, nothing else can be done.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

S. Korean President wanted Japan to check history before and since time J[pan colonized Korea. It is a good suggestion as younger Japanese generations are ignorant of harsh treatment Koreans received for years and years/ Korean families forced to Japan faced discrimination/ In school, children were called by names and received physical violence in school yards even though they displayed brilliance in classrooms.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Japan, you can't just ignore and turn the other way to the voice of the Asian people (China, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong Philippines = Asian region). Many leaders in history have done this to their peril. Take action now Japan before it gets worse - it sure aint going to disappear until you do SOMETHING (whether you apologised in the past or not).

Couple of points - So what you're saying is apologising makes no difference and paying compensation makes no difference? Yet you urge Japan to take action now? Got any good ideas?

Second point - I just don't see Hong Kong, The Philippines or Taiwan raising their voices in any way like China and South Korea do. Japan and the Philippines recently had a successful meeting and agreed to strengthen their ties and work for stability in the Asian region. Taiwan donated more money than any other Asian country after the Tohoku earthquake and have pretty amicable relations all round.

When Chinese people were smashing Japanese cars and shops, there were less than 20 anti-Japanese protestors in Hong Kong while thousands of Hong Kongese were marching in protest at mainland China's plans to change HK's education system - they wanted schoolbooks to teach that one-party rule was the best form of government.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I don't think she expects apologize that has been just Simimasen only. She wants fair treatment of Korean related people all the time, just like immigrants who enjoy life in U/SA and other countries. Not token apology, I'd bet.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

They trot this out every year, and yet they never - never - acknowledge the 1965 money and the apology that was accepted by their country as settlement in full for the wounds inflicted on Koreans.

That's all very nice, except that it's a wonder there aren't Japanese politicians saying they want the money back because Japan did nothing wrong at all. Bottom line? In the 1920s and 30s the USA, the UK and France let the Germans get away with the same kind of crap those inbred geriatric Japanese oligarchs-... sorry, politicians, are pulling nowadays, and the end result was World War 2. As far as I'm concerned the Koreans and Chinese can and should keep complaining as loud as they like, and if certain Japanese whiners don't like it they should come to terms with the fact that they shouldn't have started a war they couldn't possibly have won.

-1 ( +3 / -5 )

@ Nigelboy

No Marcelito. I'm calling your bluff.

There was a total of one and a half page devoted to the WW2 period. Half of that was covered by photographs showing the Hiroshima A - bomb dome and JIA troops marching somewhere in China.

This statement was a dead giveaway. At least you could of constructed your stories better.

Nigelboy - I don,t give much of a toss whether you think it's a bluff or not - I know what I saw with my own eyes and don,t need to " construct " any stories to "prove" anything to you or anyone else. I simply stated what I saw in black and white. Of course , being such a hard core J- defender you could never accept that and hence you resort to some typically arrogant statement such as " I,m calling your bluff ". To use your own words - that's " kindergarten level "response. Cheers

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

N K and S K are having separated (Korean War USA began) families meeting together. USA failed to separate N and S Vietnam. It will not be too long N and S Korea will be unified. US stay in SK will have to be verified by SK this weekend. (Friday USA is trying to be friendly with NK now. Is USA expecting unification of Korea? SK sure has a strong stand right now.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@South Korean President Park Geun-Hye

''Only by seeing history correctly and learning from it can Japan embrace the future. We urge Japan to follow its promise to seriously examine its history and win the trust of international society through actions,''it added.''Otherwise relations between Japan and its neighboring countries will have no future.''

Well said Ms. Park. Will you follow your own speech? Your father made an epoch making as a historically speaking. In 1965, Mr.Park resolved all issues between 1910 and 1945 as'' the final and completely'' as he stated and signed. Accept that history,please. If you bring back the old bad blood into the done deal issue almost a half century ago will produce a new issue. Your father accomplished a lot and he got $800,000,000 Grant and ODA from Japan as well as $5,300,000,000 asset with the formal apology from Japan. Prime minister Abe's grand father Prime minister Kishi did that. Therefore, I understand how Mr. Abe feels. He must respect Mr.Kishi's accomplishment. You do the same for sake of for two nations significant relationship for the future of this global society. Do not escape from your domestic issue while your wag the dog situation.

The bottom line that many Japaneses feel facing the history and accepting your accusations is two different thing.

Me.park, move forward. While we are working together as problem solvers for real global issues for our future, organically any issue two nations might have will be fixed. Your issue is the issue for the issue. We have reached the resolution for any historical issue in our basic treaty between Korea and Japan. It is about time to use it for our full implementation of that spirit of the treaty. Learn from your father and face the history of 1965.

You are the one who said at the US congress '' Those who are blind in the past will see no future''

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

To all those who rec'd the first comment: "Oh for goodness sake, get over it. This finished 68 years ago. And why can't the Japanese pay homage to their own shrine to their dead in Japan?"

I have a question: would you think the same if it were German politicians who wished to pay homage to WWII Veteran's at a cemetery which included people like Goering and Himmler?

And Germany did not teach about the rise of HItler and how Germany started WWII.

And its current politician denied gassing Jews and Gypsies?

-2 ( +4 / -5 )

hatsoff

Couple of points - So what you're saying is apologising makes no difference and paying compensation makes no difference? Yet you urge Japan to take action now? Got any good ideas?

Whether you think the compensation and apologies makes a difference or not is not really up for debate is it - the question is have Asians affected by Japan's past aggressions believe it makes a difference; clearly they don't.

Second point - I just don't see Hong Kong, The Philippines or Taiwan raising their voices in any way like China and South Korea do. Japan and the Philippines recently had a successful meeting and agreed to strengthen their ties and work for stability in the Asian region. Taiwan donated more money than any other Asian country after the Tohoku earthquake and have pretty amicable relations all round.

Just Google "Hong Kong/Philippines/Taiwan Japan war protest" and be enlightened

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

0aarcello' you haven;t answered my question, Which text book+ elementary? Jr Hs? Sr/ Has? No Japanese text books are not translated in English. If they are transferred to English and sold, they sure get big problem. /that Copu right protection law (Pan American copy right protection). /If you read a text book in Japanese, write page numbers.. Japanese text bookd always have Dai -- page on each page. Also, >>> shou, at the beginning of chapters. Then owairi at the end of chapters.
-4 ( +0 / -4 )

This is not textbook which are published by several private publishers such ass Sanseido, etc. Japanese ttextbooks are not published by Japanese Govt. Shakaika Rekishi (history) kyokasho. She wants Japan to be aware of history between Korea and Japan. None of text book publishers translated in Engllishl to retail sales. .

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Can President Park clarify the 1965 agreement when she accuse Japan and saids "" It is hard to build trust without the willingness to face history and consider the wounds inflicted upon others"? Japan has faced the history with Korea in 1965. After the payment of $500 million was made by Japan to settle the entire issue with Korea, the 1965 documents reveals that the South Korean government claimed that it would handle individual compensation to its citizens who suffered during Japan's colonial rule while rejecting Japan's proposal to directly compensate individual victims and receiving the whole amount of grants on the behalf of victims. Has Park read the agreement?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"1965 agreement"

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." ~Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

JTDanMan,

Rather than making a one line statement that don't make sense, why don't you clarify why "I do not think it means what you think it means."

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I have a question: would you think the same if it were German politicians who wished to pay homage to WWII Veteran's at a cemetery which included people like Goering and Himmler?

Yeah. The problem with these bashers is that they assume the politicians are praying SPECIFICALLY for so-called war criminals.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

JTDanMan,

There is no legal requirement for the provision of official apologies for specific policies or government organized compensation to “comfort women.” South Korea promulgated domestic laws in 1966 and 1971 to distribute $300 million received from Japan as outright grants from the 1965 Treaty to individual property claims stemming from the period of Japanese rule. However, neither the 1965 Treaty nor the two South Korean domestic laws mentioned “comfort women” in its list of categories eligible for compensation or property claims, and none of the above instruments had clauses that covered future items not included under the original list of eligible claims.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

sfjp

If you recall, in our last meeting I wrote, inter alia,

"the stuff about prior deals between Japan and ROK a red herring," and "people such as you -- y'know, Holocaust Deniers -- are not interested in proof, but rather denial."

I ask the following question three times,

Do you think there is no proof Japan’s wartime government coerced women into prostitution for the Japanese Imperial Army?

You refused to answer, b/c you recognize answering "yes" would expose you for what you are.

That is about as much as I have to say about your sad attempts to muddy the issue with all this 1965 treaty stuff. You simply have no interest in understanding history; only using it to further your craven Holocaust denial.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

JTDanMan,

Your country, South Korea will continue to have disagreements with Japan. The point that must be kept in mind is that structural constraints created by the Treaty of Normalization and accompanying agreements signed in 1965 by South Korea and Japan mean that the disagreement over interpretations of history and other historical issues will continue at the political level for the foreseeable future.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Do you think there is no proof Japan’s wartime government coerced women into prostitution for the Japanese Imperial Army?

Nada. Unless you expand the word "coerced" and/or include certain IJA units as 'Japan's wartime government"

This is the central debate withinnJapan and the controversies surrounding the Kono Statement.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

JTDanMan,

Do you think there is no proof that during the WWII, Vietnam war or any other war that other goverment coerced women into prostitution for the military? You would agree to this that nothing happened at all.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Zomafumi: In Yasumuni topic, we could not continue discussion. So, I am writing here. Korean people were force to come to Japan to work in factories and mines. I was not talking current people. Late 1930's and early 1940s. There was a princess who was forced to marry Korean Prince. Even she was a princess, she was badly treated by her peers. Her son threw up chocolate colored liquid and died. We thought he was murdered. Then she went to Korea and after the war, she returned to Korea and never came back

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Nigelboy

No Marcelito. I'm calling your bluff.

@Nigelboy - I don,t really care if you think t,s a bluff or not , I know what I saw in that textbook with my own eyes. What is it that makes it so hard for you to accept what I saw ? You were not there with me, you didn,t see it , "so you are calling a bluff"? What a characteristically condescending remark.

There was a total of one and a half page devoted to the WW2 period. Half of that was covered by photographs showing the Hiroshima A - bomb dome and JIA troops marching somewhere in China.

This statement was a dead giveaway. At least you could of constructed your stories better.

Give me a break - dead giveaway? And your evidence is what ?- you know all the Japanese textbooks by hard do you ?......I certainly don't have a need to " construct " any stories to prove anything to you or anyone else, I know what I saw black on white.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The Koreans need to "face history" over the millions of Koreans who were happy to work with the Japanese to modernize Korea before 1945. The Japan-hate in Korea borders on the insane at times - with even the children and grandchildren of 'collaborators' being persecuted.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/southkorea/7890316/South-Korea-targets-Japanese-collaborators-descendants.html

You can do better than this President Park.

2 ( +6 / -3 )

Exactly. South Korea being nuked and millions of South Koreans dying instantly might just be the only thing to distract them that they have a bigger problem with their neighbors up north.

Genjuro, you sound like this is your wish?

This culture of theirs that makes dwell on the past and instead of moving on, keep on reliving and whining about it. Man, it must SUCK to have been born Korean.

Not really.. You forget that while politicians and activists beat the same drum every year, majority of Koreans go about their daily lives with little interest in any of this stuff. Of my 50+ Korean friends I am the only one with any interest in this stuff, and I am attending a wedding this evening for a Korean couple to wish them good luck and a happy honeymoon trip to Japan.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

How long do we need to listed to this kind of stuff from Korea? Will they ever be satisfied?

The Koreans and the Chinese won't allow relations in this region to move forward.

Contrast this to Europe - completely different story.

It's so tiresome and regressive.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

How long do we need to listed to this kind of stuff from Korea? Will they ever be satisfied?

You can choose to ignore it. But you choose to continue to spend hours and hours posting stuff on the internet about it. Obviously I do too, but I'm not complaining.

The Koreans and the Chinese won't allow relations in this region to move forward.

And Japan is faultless isn't it?

Contrast this to Europe - completely different story.

Different story indeed. Number of German politicians who deny or downplay their past atrocities = ZERO

It's so tiresome and regressive.

Indeed. You can choose to be like vast majority of Koreans and not care. If you choose to care and post about it, don't complain.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

II feel sorry to Koren but trying to stir Japan is not the way the head of Korean should behave. She is doing fine in her country but even Abe hasn't made speech to instruct what Korea should do.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@Tamarama

How long do we need to listed to this kind of stuff from Korea? Will they ever be satisfied? The Koreans and the Chinese won't allow relations in this region to move forward. Contrast this to Europe - completely different story. It's so tiresome and regressive.

You and others on this board sound like conservative politicians; when will they stop protesting our non-action?!

How about being pro-active here Japan; don't arrogantly ignore others protests and claim the moral high ground.

Here is a perfect opportunity for Japan to take the lead and act as THE moral, fair, responsible and relations-building Asian nation.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

You can choose to ignore it. But you choose to continue to spend hours and hours posting stuff on the internet about it. Obviously I do too, but I'm not complaining.

So, the only opinions that are valid are yours, and those similar, Mitch? I enjoy the commentary and mixture of opinions, that's why I'm here. Spending hours? Speak for yourself.

Indeed. You can choose to be like vast majority of Koreans and not care. If you choose to care and post about it, don't complain.

Sure sounding a bit preachy there, Mitch. You aren't the moderator and your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's. Take a step down from your moral high horse, tiger.

This is an article about the President of the Korean people making a representative speech on an important occasion. She represents Korean views as the elected leader, whether you like it or not.

Many South Koreans believe Japan has failed to atone for abuses during the colonial period.

Not really consistent with your version of public opinion, is it?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Just reading some of the news articles about the August 15 memorials on WW2 in Japan makes me sick to think that in this day and age there are still so many Japanese people, many political heads, want to honor this shrine which includes a group of Class A war criminals... by extension to honor the Japanese invasions into and killing in many countries in the Asia Pacific region (e.g. Korea, China, USA, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, Burma). This year Prime Minister Abe made it worse in his memorial speech by omitting any mentioning of Japanese "wartime aggression", a break from his predecessors tradition. Japan is moving more and more towards the fascist and militaristic extreme.

They choose to list the convicted war criminals as "gods", rather than excluding them from the shrine, as suggested by many before, so people can honestly honor the Japanese war dead (civilians and regular soldiers). The name "peace country" is an oxymoron to be used to name this shrine of wartime state religion which inflicted so much pain and suffering to millions of people, including the Japanese.

Honoring war dead in a shrine that included hundreds of convicted war criminals is NOT an act of praying for peace, rather it is a yearning for the past "glory" of imperial conquering and murdering millions of people in Asia/Pacific region. Perennially memorializing the victims of the two nuclear bombs without mentioning the victims of Japan's previous invasions into other countries is selective memory. The current Japanese Deputy Prime Minister recently stated they want to follow the Nazi model to change the Japanese peace constitution. One gets the sense that the current Japanese political feeling about the WW2 is about the similar to Nazi German feeling about WW1. Watch out America! If we are not careful of the rise of Japanese extremist militarism, they may come to return the favor of the nuclear bombs.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

letsberealistic

You and others on this board sound like conservative politicians; when will they stop protesting our non-action?!

Or, perhaps, Academics who have written books on the subject. Like, say, Thomas U. Berger, Professor at Keio and Boston Universities, who certainly don't believe there has been any 'non-action'.

To quote Mr Berger:

But Japan has been far more repentant than is often credited. Prime ministers have repeatedly offered apologies for their countrys misdeeds. Japan has sponsored joint historical research with both South Korea and China. Most Japanese school textbooks deal with issues like the Nanjing massacre and the colonial oppression of Koreans in a fairly open manner. Opinion polls suggests that most Japanese feel their country did things in Asia for which the country should apologize. The problem is, in China and Korea there has been very little readiness to accept Japans efforts to promote reconciliation, and as a result, those efforts have tended to founder. The Koreans and the Chinese bear a large share of the blame. With the Koreans, there has been an unwillingness to help the Japanese find ways of reconciling when the Japanese have tried to do so. This was most apparent with the Asian Womens Fund, which the Korean government did not support and in fact subverted by establishing a separate, rival support system for the former comfort women. This has been made worse by the tendency of Korean politicians to score cheap points by very publicly taking out their frustrations with Japan as when President Lee Myung-bak went to Dokdo/Takeshima recently. There is good reason to question whether the Chinese really want or care about reconciliation. When Jiang Zemin went to Tokyo in 1998, he hectored the Japanese about the past in ways that prevented the Japanese from offering the kind of written apology that they gave South Korea President Kim Dae-jung that same year.

Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/12/11/why-japan-is-still-not-sorry-enough/#ixzz2cCMPHKxB

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@Tamarama

Or, perhaps, Academics who have written books on the subject. Like, say, Thomas U. Berger, Professor at Keio and Boston Universities, who certainly don't believe there has been any 'non-action'.

Oh, so we should ignore peoples protests because an academic disagrees. You can't academically argue away peoples feelings. Many people in the Asians feel/believe strongly Japan has not done enough and THAT is what Japan (and yourself) is not acknowledging but should.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

OK, just one.

@Mitch

What do they stand to gain? Any more or less than Japan stands to gain by fanning the flames of nationalism and viewing their past in a more positive light?

Actually, I'll argue that they have already gained a lot.

First, let's analyze what they lose. Not a lot. Because while there is a right wing in Japan, bureaucratically-controlled Japan as a whole is too "adult" to really hold it against them and impose costs, even though especially in the 90s they could have made China and Korea's lives truly miserable if they wanted to. They aren't going to raise sanctions, find excuses to ban Chinese products ... etc. And when your losses are that small, it does not take a very big gain to make it all worthwhile.

Second, you might notice that China and Korea started really getting loud about Japanese aggression in the 90s. Do you remember what happened in the 90s? The Soviet Union died, and with it the big military threat to Japan. With the world's 2nd biggest economy (for this period), the Japanese's biggest weakness is military. While the military threat is large, they have to do what America says. With the military threat shrunk, this is Japan's big time for a breakout.

Can you imagine what would happen if Japan exploited this period? Even maintaining military expenditures at a slightly higher level than in real life would allow for much better "circulation" of aging military equipment (since a large percentage of Japan's expenditures is on personnel) and thus a much more powerful military. How about combining this with an assertive foreign policy ... bringing Southeast Asia and India more into its circle. Oh, how much more difficult would China's task to "conquer" the "disputed islands" by military pressure!

Korea will also be in a much weaker position vis-a-vis Japan if that comes to pass. And while the Japanese may not be out to conquer them, being in a weak position affects all negotiations.

So, they need to prevent the breakout, and the only card is a soft power card in Japan's Imperial period. They know the West has to give them some support or at least stay neutral here, or they'll be breaking their own view of history and their role in it (for example, if America changed its history writing of Japan to make it less evil than at present, how would it justify the atom bomb?). And while anti-Japan paranoia is far less dominant a force outside of China and Korea, all they have to do is change the balance of power by a few percent. And even within Japan, by staking out memories of the Imperial era, they can slightly increase the power of the "cautious" and "pro-Chinese/Korean" types and prevent movement.

In short, the constant screaming applied pressure on all sides to choose caution, while China and Korea slowly maneuver themselves into more favorable positions. Now Japan is finally realizing what it should have been doing all along, but the optimum timing for a breakout has passed.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I think Japan should build a manned monitoring station on the Senkakus. That is their right, and it clears any confusion the Chinese or others may have.

-1 ( +4 / -4 )

Prime Minister Abe sneezes, moments later the PRC takes great offense and orders it's tributary states to follow suit.

It doesn't matter what Japan does, because anything it does is an excuse for it's enemies to use it a political tool.

-4 ( +4 / -7 )

Paying homage to this Japanese shrine with convicted Class A war criminals and denying many war crimes during WW2 is like… just imagine… the current German government denies the Holocaust (and other war crimes) and has a shrine that listed Hitler and his deputies as “gods” and it is paid homage by many German people and political heads every year after WW2. There would be unthinkable uproars in the western world.

In comparison, what protests came out from Korea and China is nothing strange and maybe too weak a reactions from Asian countries.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

letsberealistic

Oh, so we should ignore peoples protests because an academic disagrees. You can't academically argue away peoples feelings. Many people in the Asians feel/believe strongly Japan has not done enough and THAT is what Japan (and yourself) is not acknowledging but should.

Sigh. You didn't read it, did you? Did you bother to read the article per chance? One of many on the subject.

This article is about the South Korean President using an important date and occasion to take a(nother) swipe at Japan for not doing enough over it's wartime atrocities. But, as we all know, because we have researched a little on the subject (right?), we know that, in fact, Japan has apologised and attempted to apologise many times already.

Mitch Cohen claims that most Koreans don't care about it. This article claims many do. You claim that many 'Asians' feel that Japan needs to do more. Mr Berger, an academic who spent 14 years researching the subject and subsequently writing a book about it, says that in fact, that is not the case, and that it is only China and South Korea who use the subject as an opportunity to push a political agenda and score cheap 'nationalistic' points, and stir nationalist sentiment with their fellow countrymen. This then, would somewhat support Mitch Cohen's statement, and to me is irresponsible and unconstructive governance.

Mitch Cohen lives in South Korea, if I'm not mistaken. If what he says is true, that the majority of Koreans don't care about this, then it further supports my original position that they need to stop bringing it up, and move forward in a constructive and open manner. They can't want to keep punishing their neighbours in perpetuity for the sins of their forefathers.

Japan has apologised (many times), Japan has changed, Korea and China have changed, the world has changed and we need to move forward.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/japanese-war-criminals-hanged-in-tokyo Japanese war criminals hanged in Tokyo

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

fw360

Paying homage to this Japanese shrine with convicted Class A war criminals and denying many war crimes during WW2 is like… just imagine… the current German government denies the Holocaust (and other war crimes) and has a shrine that listed Hitler and his deputies as “gods” and it is paid homage by many German people and political heads every year after WW2. There would be unthinkable uproars in the western world.

In comparison, what protests came out from Korea and China is nothing strange and maybe too weak a reactions from Asian countries.

I wonder when Japan had ever denied totally the war crimes although we Japanese do reserve doubt and refute to the extent of the accusation that are recently remade.

We Japanese also do not see any connection between paying homage to the fallen soldiers and accusation made that Japanese are in denial. Yasukuni is a shrine to honor fallen soldiers who paid the ultimate price in protecting this nation and not a shrine for any particular individual or individuals. Within the shrine they are all treated as equals.

Another point to point out is the comparison between Japan and the Nazis, Japan did not have any systematic genocide program against any race and did not target any race in particular.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Seriously? I mean seriously? I have something to say to you Korea and it's not a nice thing -->

GET THE *** OVER IT ALREADY!!!!! It's been years and years and years and years since this happened and you just cannot seem to GET **** OVER IT? How long are you gonna hold on to the past? How long are you going to keep complaining. The past is the past and it is best to FOCUS ON THE PRESENT AND FUTURE!!!

....

-3 ( +6 / -8 )

@ SamuraiBlue

Then just remove the war criminals (1068 war criminals and 14 of them Class A war criminals) from the Yasukuni shrine, as suggested by many before, this particular controversy will not be front and center in your international relationship when the politicians pay homage to the souls of million died for defending their country.

(These war criminals can be enshrined in some other Shinto shrine if the right-wing extremists want to.)

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@Tamarama

You left out this part;

What did you find out? Is Japan as unrepentant about its past as its neighbors claim?

Yes. But it’s not as simple as that.

It’s true, Japan has not been as repentant as Germany or other countries that have faced up to the darker sides of their past. Japan has apologized for waging aggressive war and oppressing its neighbors, but those apologies have fumbling and awkward, and often been undercut by revisionist statements from senior politicians. Japan has offered relatively little compensation to the victims. And to this day there are no nationally sponsored museums or monuments that acknowledge Japanese aggression or atrocities.

According to Berger Korea and China are, to some degree, right to demand more from Japan.

Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/12/11/why-japan-is-still-not-sorry-enough/#ixzz2cLG2UbMG

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

The difference though is that Japan does not ask for apologies every year several times a year.

Precisely Jane, and well said. I think it would be totally appropriate for any country which has victims from WW2 to have a national day of Remembrance. I would probably even expect some activists to make some heated comments on or around that day. But this bi-monthly enumerating of the grudges and the bleating for apologies that has gone on for years now has got to stop.

-1 ( +5 / -5 )

Love your quote Samurai Blue "Another point to point out is the comparison between Japan and the Nazis, Japan did not have any systematic genocide program against any race and did not target any race in particular." They just wiped out anyone who they came across as they though that they were superior to all races and this was sufficient excuse to wipe out any one who opposed them. Take a look at Wikipedia and what it says about what has been referred to as the "Asian holocaust:

"the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese."

There are many cases, such as the "Manila massacre" in which at least 100,000 people were killed, of which most people are unaware and have been conveniently swept under the carpet to allow for trade relationships.

-2 ( +3 / -6 )

only oneAug. 19, 2013 - 03:51AM JST "the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and >Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese." There are many cases, such as the "Manila massacre" in which at least 100,000 people were killed, of which most >people are unaware and have been conveniently swept under the carpet to allow for trade relationships.

And yet the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia and Myanmar(Burma) do not harp on WWII and they do not use anti-Japan sentiment as a political or diplomatic tool. It's more than just "trade relationships" it's called "moving on" something only South Korea and China can not do.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Korea won't get over it because even today they cannot stand how coldly the Japanese treat them.

....well Korea, get in line with the rest of us.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

OssanAmerica

And yet the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia and Myanmar(Burma) do not harp on WWII and they do not use anti-Japan sentiment as a political or diplomatic tool. It's more than just "trade relationships" it's called "moving on" something only South Korea and China can not do.

It's not as simple as that, there are historical and political reasons for why other Asian countries do not protest as much as China and Korea. Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia and Myanma do protest just not as much.

Why Japan Is Still Not Sorry Enough http://nation.time.com/2012/12/11/why-japan-is-still-not-sorry-enough/#ixzz2cLG2UbM

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Genjuro, you sound like this is your wish?

It's called hyperbole. Look it up if you're not familiar with the term.

Not really.. You forget that while politicians and activists beat the same drum every year, majority of Koreans go about their daily lives with little interest in any of this stuff. Of my 50+ Korean friends I am the only one with any interest in this stuff, and I am attending a wedding this evening for a Korean couple to wish them good luck and a happy honeymoon trip to Japan.

That's nice to hear. So how come you can't be like any of your 50-plus friends and move on instead of dwelling on the past?

-1 ( +5 / -5 )

letsberealisticAug. 19, 2013 - 11:14AM JST OssanAmerica "And yet the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia and Myanmar(Burma) do not harp on WWII and they do not use anti-Japan sentiment as a political or diplomatic tool. It's more than just "trade relationships" it's called "moving on" something only South Korea and China can not do.

It's not as simple as that, there are historical and political reasons for why other Asian countries do not protest as >much as China and Korea. Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia and Myanma do protest just not as >much.

No, it really is as simple as that. one can over analyze anything.

Why Japan Is Still Not Sorry Enough http://nation.time.com/2012/12/11/why-japan-is-still-not-sorry->enough/#ixzz2cLG2UbM

"But Japan has been far more repentant than is often credited. Prime ministers have repeatedly offered apologies for their country’s misdeeds. Japan has sponsored joint historical research with both South Korea and China. Most Japanese school textbooks deal with issues like the Nanjing massacre and the colonial oppression of Koreans in a fairly open manner. Opinion polls suggests that most Japanese feel their country did things in Asia for which the country should apologize."

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

It is time for Korea and other Asian nations to Face THEIR present and to stop harping on the past over and over. The past is the past, History is history, and we live in the present. Japan is working hard to be a fine member of the modern world and for them to honour their ancestors is their right, privledge and duty. Please get on with your own lives, other nations and stop this silly nonesense. I imagine it makes good politics but it makes no sense at all.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

lol

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@Fw360: All horrific atrocities should be remembered and condemned, so that it will never be repeated... not brushed under the carpet or minimized or denied.

If I may add: ... and they should not be overplayed and used as tools decades later by governments to score political points serving only their own agendas.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@Fw360: All horrific atrocities should be remembered and condemned, so that it will never be repeated... not brushed under the carpet or minimized or denied.

If I may add: ... and they should not be overplayed and used as tools decades later by governments to score political points serving only their own agendas.

You can argue that they are overplaying the issue, but you can't dispute the fact that it happened.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Japan please stop living in the past and revisioning history so humanity can learn its lessons and move on.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

All of these countries need to stop playing the victim and learn their history so these tragedies (all of them) will NEVER happen again!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Demonstrations against the west and Koreans in Osaka (which I witnessed) have left me in no doubt that Japanese do NOT know their own history sufficiently to ever have the luxury of having other Asian countries stop reminding them of their past misdeeds.

Contrast the attitudes and regret with that of the Germans and it is easy to understand.....

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Abe should ask Ze Germans for a copy of their, "How To Apologize And Make People Think You Really Mean It" handbook.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China and Koreans need to forget about the pass and build new friendship to make the world a safe place in the future for both Korean Japan China.If not

0 ( +0 / -0 )

get over it, a combined asia has more potential than whatever the rest could come up with

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

You all ignore the atrocity Japan has committed to it's neighbours, which makes it difficult for countries to simply "get over" such issues.

Take for example, China. The Rape of Nanjing was the most atrocious crime inflicted and Japan has never owed up to it.

Take for example, Korea. Japanese soldiers trafficked thousands of Korean Women as sex slaves.

The reason why you can't just "get over" such issues is because of the level of heinousness, which prevents the path to more peaceful relations.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Also, the fact that Japan has not apologized is dangerous because it shows:

Japan arrogantly believes the atrocities it committed were horrible enough to owe up to.

Japan's reluctance to admit the crimes they committed means they DID NOT LEARN THEIR LESSON AND THEY ARE REFUSING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

THink about it logically, if your friend did something horrible to you and did not apologize, do you think you and your friend would have friendly relations?

History, is not easily swept under the rug, as many of you assume!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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