politics

S Korea begins naval event without Japan after Rising Sun flag row

34 Comments
By Kazuhiro Nogi

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34 Comments
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Fair enough, not just the navy but also ground forces use this symbol of imperialism, It is seen as a disgusting symbol, as Japan says shogani but it is a for many other countries such an insult.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

The upset over the rising sun flag is understandable, but that argument should be on a separate stage. And to be honest who can make another nation change their naval flag? This review is a decent idea but as usual the Koreans turn it into a political tool, just like with everything else.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

@TigersTokyoDome you are right... They somehow look like China that everything they do turn into a POLITICAL TOOL. And they stain the allies(Japan-South Korea). And the HAPPY NATION is CHINA.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

TigersTokyoDome: "And to be honest who can make another nation change their naval flag?"

Any nation that hosts such an event and demands it be done or the target nation participate. You said yourself the upset is understandable. What's not is the stubborn insistence not to do it. What harm would it have done to simply not use the flag for this particular event? NONE, since you want to talk about using it as a political tool and painting Japan as the victim, as usual. Even if you insist Korea is the bad guy here, Japan had the chance to take the high road, but as usual, nationalist pride means Japan loses out.

So, Japan can sit out once again while so many other nations take part. No doubt they'll hold their own, solo 'ceremony' and refuse to talk about anything else.

-5 ( +9 / -14 )

And I see your true colors shing through, I see your true colors and that's why I still hate you...

Do other countries use separate flags for the Navy?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Any nation that hosts such an event and demands it be done or the target nation participate. You said yourself the upset is understandable. What's not is the stubborn insistence not to do it. What harm would it have done to simply not use the flag for this particular event? NONE, since you want to talk about using it as a political tool and painting Japan as the victim, as usual. Even if you insist Korea is the bad guy here, Japan had the chance to take the high road, but as usual, nationalist pride means Japan loses out.

To cut a long story short Korea asked another country's navy not to fly their naval flag. Both Korea's never heeded Japan's protest to show the Takeshima islands on their unified flag at the Winter Olympics, so why expect Japan to change their naval flag at Korea's request?

6 ( +10 / -4 )

And the HAPPY NATION is CHINA.

and NK and Russia, and USA as a matter of fact.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

How many million are the U.S and Russia spending on this?

A penny saved is a penny earned. Well done Japan.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Reckless:

Do other countries use separate flags for the Navy?

Yes, some do.

I'm British, so already happen to know that the UK Royal Navy (RN) uses the "White Ensign"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Ensign

That flag is used to separate RN vessels from those operated by Royal Naval Reserve and Merchant shipping (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ensign, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ensign)

Many ex-British Empire, current Commonwealth and ex-Commonwealth countries also use variations of the White Ensign for their own Navies/Maritime Defense Forces...

Typically

See, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Myanmar(Burma)...

In fact, check out : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_ensign

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Reckless, as per Thomas' informative proof, Korea's request was ridiculous. Not to mention the wrong timing to get Japan to discuss their rising sun flag.

Yes, it was more than possible that Japan could have flown the Hinomaru just for this event. But the Japanese are not that stupid in realising how Korea are using this exercise as an excuse to highlight the flag thing.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

"The emblem has been an ensign for Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Forces since 1954, but is seen in much of east Asia as a symbol of its military aggression during World War II."

For gods sake that was xx years ago, just get over it and stop going on about imperialism etc just move on with the times,

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Tokyo dismissed the request, arguing that it was mandatory to fly the Rising Sun flag under Japanese law.

I assume that in this case Japanese law actually means Japans Naval Discipline Act. I would have thought that Japans Navy would therefore have the discretion as to whether to fly this ensign or fly the countries national flag instead, as Seoul has requested.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

This has been the flag for Japan's Maritime Self Defense Forces since

1 9 5 4 ... So why complain now????

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Seoul has asked all participating countries to display only their national flags. Only Japan seems to have objected.

Really I would have thought this would be a decision for the Japanese Admiralty rather than beaurocrats at Kasumigaseki.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Fair Enough

Korea knew that bringing it up would create and issue...and an issue is exactly what they wanted.

The war is over.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Seoul has asked all participating countries to display only their national flags. Only Japan seems to have objected.

Let's ask if there's any logical reason why Korea made this request - and there is no logical reason why for example Korea would have asked the British (I don't think the British are participating) to replace the ensign with the Union Jack, and add a Korean flag too. No, this was pre-planned to cause a fuss over the rising sun flag and has absolutely nothing to do with the naval exercise. There is absolutely no constructive reason why the flag request affects the naval exercise.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

After 2011, we will find criticism of the Rising sun Flag all over the world,

This is a US-Japan alliance destruction work by Communists in Asian countries. They are doing it for China to geting the many Islands of South - East China Sea.

In order to camouflage the movements of China, the Korean Communists are mainly doing it.

These people are against the Okinawa US military base, etc even in Japan.

They for camouflage use say war crimes and the meaning of flags, and cheat people around the world them.

Especially companies, celebrities, and sports organizations that use Western peoples of Rising sun mark which are interested in Asia are criticized as their information diffusion targets, and they forced to apologize for nothing because they did not know anything.

If you find people criticizing Japan in developed countries, it is a aim to destroying of the Japan alliance, we need to think that those people are cooperators of communists at invading Asia.

People all over the world must know them and eliminate them.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

The 'rising sun' flag is much older than Japan's imperialist period to which Korea refers; it goes back to at least the Edo period and the sun symbol was used in various contexts even before this. Simply because it was also in use during the imperialist period does not make it irrevocably connected with that imperialism. To be honest, as a British-born person and a professional historian, there are many aspects of Britain's imperial history which are quite shameful but no-one suggests that the symbols of the former empire still in use in modern Britain should be discarded. This is just another beat-up by Korea.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

@G Thomas, @ishel,

You guided to through the discussion of the meaning of the flag many peoples.

It is a parts of the Communist camouflage criticizing the Rising sun Flag.

it is guide many people to deceit. It is no get answer forever.

To prevent this, we need to know the purpose of communists.

Their purpose is to destroy the alliance of Japan with , the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Australia, and ASEAN.

As a result, China will be able to obtain the South - East China Sea and send SLBM submarines to the Pacific. It leads to Asian rule of China.

That means that Asian countries will be like Uighurs and Tibetans.

We should not forgive it.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I am really angry about this. Japanese Navy has a 100% right to fly the rising sun flag. It has been the official Navy flag since 1800s. Japan will never change this flag, so please accept it South Korea.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

We need to know the purpose of Those South Korean communists.

Their purpose is to destroy the alliance of Japan with , the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Australia, and ASEAN. Since the Rising sun flag is used by the Japanese Navy, it is very straightforward to criticize the Rising sun Flag for the destruction of the Japan-U.S. Alliance.

And, They use international events for information dissemination. Criticizing global celebrities, companies and organizations that use the Rising sun Mark is for spreading information. People who speak of war crimes etc. are like their camouflaging them. As a result, China will be able to obtain the South - East China Sea and send SLBM submarines to the Pacific. It leads to Asian rule of China. That means that Asian countries will be like Uighurs and Tibetans.

We should not forgive it.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Eh, what's there to lose for Japan? I'm sure Japan also dosen't want to be allies with SK right? For everything from economy to military.

After all, both of them hate each others to guts so why the surprise now? Both will hate each other for eternaty while throwing insults around like a grade school kids.

I'm sorry if I sound pessimestic and generalizing both of these countries but, history has tought me that both of these countries will always be filled with hate on every single political/historical shenanigans in which, both have zero interest in reconciling.

That's just a way it is for these two countries.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@mmwkdw

This again... The swastika flag was a symbol of the Nazi political party, not the German military. The German military used the iron cross as their symbol during WWII. And guess what? They still do. Nobody complains about that, do they.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

This has been the flag for Japan's Maritime Self Defense Forces since

1 9 5 4 ... So why complain now????

Let's ask if there's any logical reason why Korea made this request -...

The only answer and reason I can think of is that the current Japanese administration wants to end Japans constitution and alow it's military overseas.

At the end of the day SK is hosting this event, so they have set the rules. The Japanese Navy has chosen not to attend.

In my opinion, I think that the Japanese Admiralty (although the request unusual) could have used it's decretion and flown the national flag instead of the ensign, thus assuring it's neighbours of non- aggressive future intentions.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@TigersTokyoDome

so why expect Japan to change their naval flag at Korea's request?

Simple. The 2018 Pyeongchang Olympics took place in Korea, same as this Naval Review.

Japan may object to Korea waiving the flag with the Liancourt Rocks at events that it's hosting like the Tokyo Olympics, but that's it.

Yes, it was more than possible that Japan could have flown the Hinomaru just for this event.

There you go. What shame is there for JMSDF to hoist the Hinomaru flag? This sounds like a reasonable request to everybody else but to Japanese rightwingers.

@Ex_Res

So why complain now????

Because Korea and China are now strong enough to mock and criticize Japan at international stage for its wrongdoings. This wasn't the case even in the 1990s.

Let's ask if there's any logical reason why Korea made this request

The Korean Navy was willing to go quiet about it, but the Korean public heard of news via news media and the government had no choice but to demand that JMSDF not hoist the Rising Sun Flag, since Korea is a full democracy and public opinions and pressure can actually affect changes in government policies unlike Japan, even throwing out a sitting president as you have witnessed last year.

@ishel

The 'rising sun' flag is much older than Japan's imperialist period

Swastika is literally thousands of years old and predates Jesus, yet that didn't prevent the Nazi Swastika to be banned across Europe.

The Rising Sun flag was the battle flag of the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy, and many wartime atrocities were committed under this flag, therefore the Rising Sun flag must forever be banned like the Nazi Swastika as the symbol of hate, racism, genocide, and war crimes.

Incidentally, the Rising Sun flag is referred as the War Criminal Flag in China and Korea for this very reason.

@Ganbare Japan!

Japanese Navy has a 100% right to fly the rising sun flag.

That's like saying that the German navy has the 100% right to fly the Nazi Swastika flag. Of course JMSDF has no right to fly the Rising Sun flag according to international consensus and ethics standard.

@extanker

The swastika flag was a symbol of the Nazi political party,

Huh, all German warplanes and warships during WW2 had Nazi Swastika markings on them.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

For gods sake that was xx years ago, 

Yeah but if Germany were still using swastika, the Germans would be upset too.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Huh, all German warplanes and warships during WW2 had Nazi Swastika markings on them.

Yeah, and Japanese warplanes had the red circle of the Japanese flag because that is the country they were fighting for just like the German military were fighting for the Nazis.

Play all the word games you want, it does not change the fact that you are 100% wrong. The Iron Cross was, and still is, the symbol of the German military, not the swastika. No one complains that the Iron Cross is still in use. Complaining that the rising sun flag is somehow different is 100% hypocritical.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

South Koreans will always try to find some opportunities to criticise Japan and they will never stop. Let's say if Japan decides to abolish the Rising Sun Flag, then next they will complain about the national flag saying that it reminds them of Japanese occupation etc., since it was also the national flag of the Empire of Japan.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The fact that Koreans only complain about the naval flag but not the national flag lacks logic as it was the national flag that could be more associated with the Japanese occupation and colonisation of Korea as this was the flag that was flying over many places in Korea during Japanese era. Koreans have nothing to do with the naval flag as they were not fighting against Japan. In fact, many Korean men volunteered for the Japanese Imperial Army and Navy.

If Japan had to change its flags due to its past, then many countries that had imperialistic history have to change their flags too. And don't forget that the Germans still use Iron Cross on their military aircrafts and tanks etc. and no other countries that were invaded by Nazi Germany complain about it as they clearly understand that Iron Cross was adopted way before Nazism and does not represent Nazi ideology, unlike the Nazi Swastika. The situation of the Rising Sun Flag is much closer to that of the Iron Cross than Nazi Swastika, but Koreans just ignore that fact that German military still uses Iron cross and no other countries complain, simply because it does not suit their anti-Japanese campaign.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

does not change the fact that you are 100% wrong. The Iron Cross was, and still is, the symbol of the German military, not the swastika.

Being 100% wrong is one thing.

Who walks down the street wearing a swastika or a rising sun flag?

It is what it is. One can be a pedant about these things or have some empathy.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@ishel: " To be honest, as a British-born person and a professional historian, there are many aspects of Britain's imperial history which are quite shameful but no-one suggests that the symbols of the former empire still in use in modern Britain should be discarded. This is just another beat-up by Korea."

I am not sure I agree with your broad statement. I sometimes read news from India and the anti-British comments are quite striking. I would not be surprised if there is a lot of resentment to British warships there.

Also, flags by their very nature, are meant to be symbols, and in this case the Japanese flag referenced symbolizes a lot of bad things to Koreans. In the States, the Confederate flag is and has been under seige and may disappear.

Of course Japan has the right to continue to use an inflammatory and offensive flag, and in this instance, Korea has the right not to invite Japan to participate.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

It was a South Korean newspaper (ironically) who questioned South Korean hostility towards Japan's rising sun flag by stating that South Koreans should also be hostile towards the flag of China, as China fought the North's communist fight during the Korean war with 1.3M Chinese soldiers which led to hundreds of thousands of South Korean deaths and the division of the country.

In other words, the Koreans are very choosy over which parts of their history they want to hold grudges against and which parts they are happy to forgive.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

You know, if the Japanese Navy adopted the Hello Kitty flag for all such events, South Korea would still find a way to resent it as a symbol of Japanese aggression.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Who walks down the street wearing a swastika or a rising sun flag?

You're kidding right? The rising sun flag is used everywhere.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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